Guild Wars 2

heal skill only good in zerg fight where there you can get the benefit of 20% healing from dmg but again u need gs for big aoe thus you want your symbol larger and maybe another symbol when 50% hp and you use full medi so why not take 20% recharge trait

more group play then roaming

i think permeating wrath made for more wvw zergy situation where you going with the melee train and burn everything around you
in small scale fight its not useful at all

as you see some ppl make useful with it in wvw in roaming dueling and small scale fight as with medzerk

in pvp the situation for the class is in problem due to the cele meta comp which guardian cant bring higher dmg or good bunker support as the ele /engi while holding the point

thus if they could buff up the burning dmg by more ticking /dmg scale or even make the guardian par with the sustain with more blocks heal et then this class could stand against the ele and engi in good spot

sure in 1v1 the guardian should win but in pvp where you need to cap points rotate your locations fast enough or hold points any guardian build as for now bit behind

guys 20 sec cd on the trait ….

i agree guardian in bad spot in tpvp (especialy high tier) low and mid tier will used sometime bunker guard thus i would love to see some changes who give the bunker the burning abilities which hurt and turning the tide even in 1v2

but if you compare guard to guard build the hybrid is still better if picked over the medzerk but nit the bunker one. and its big but as ppl choose the meta comp thief, engi ele if they want sustain and dmg

ceimash pls put more vid and your crazy build and spirit build !

i havent used this build in wvw . but now i have and its not just fun but so good . sure more players are but noob and with no condi cleanse which kill them very quickly

put some duels with s/d thieves in tpvp (not wvw) and some shatter mesmer pls

Takimoto.5417:

I uploaded one more montage…

http://youtu.be/l7JEtDNNCLU

Also, I read through this forum thread…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/About-This-Condi-Guard-Hype/first

People seem sort of upset either for/against a hybrid (aka “condi”) build.

Honestly, I just play it because it’s fun. I threw it together as a lark, and it actually ended up being pretty decent.

I think of it this way: Would I craft ascended gear for this build? No. But is it enjoyable to play as “funzies”? Heck yeah.

:)

you like it so just admit it step out of the dark to the burning side

CMF.5461:

Your math assumes 100% uptime on burning/poison/bleeding. Yet in your showcase videos it highlights the fact that you will not have 100% uptime on those three conditions.

So the numbers will be lower in effective gameplay than your showcased math.

On initial engagement you get about 5 seconds of burning on your targets with JI. Then you fight for a bit and utilize Purging Flames for a condi cleanse/burn for about 8 seconds.

Between that, every 4 hits you apply a second of burning.

So for every 4 strikes you get 1 burn, so you can average out your burn damage to something like 195? (780/4)

Giving you about 1585 dps with the burning build.

On initial engagement with JI you have a higher amount of “burst” since the burn is ticking consistently.

So your auto attack dps is 1585 and your burst dps is 2176 if we want to look at it that way.

ok even so you see the avergae dmg is higher between 1.6k-2.1k
also my burning uptime depends on the enemy cleanse abilities. against bunkerguard its 50% , against mesmer or low cleanse abilitiy is 80%-100% . so not 25% (1/4 as you wrote)
and also its aoe most of the time

and i agree its all fall the the part how you play it . and yes ppls not know yet how to handle hybrid guards. if you attack they block so you get burned , if you dont attack them they hits you and burn you . so win win

CMF.5461:

Time to kill is still an issue. you say that people will avoid/dodge/block a medi zerker…………BUT you need to land a hit to even apply burning in the first place. So if medi zerker isn’t landing hits, neither is the condi guard -> in turn applying no conditions again.

if ppl see/know medzerg build on you they will be prepare for your burst from JI ,scepter immobilize, sow burst and gs leap combos. thus they will dodge some of your hits

as hybrid i use some scepter AA at the start which hardly enemy dodge as they save the dodges for the burst thus burning procs . if they pushed me i sue focus to block while swapping weapon on them and start GS rotations

again the difference is the approach and game style . if you play hybrid like medzerk you are doing it wrong and yes your dmg will be much lower

some maths (hope i get it right from the gw2skills)

build used 6,2,6,0,0 carrion flame runes gs versus 2,1,6,1,4 gs medzerk traveler runes

gs AA with hybrid
662 dmg 1.071.1*1.15 assuming 15 stacks vulnerability (blind and scepter#3 focus #4 and gs#4 (can be 20 stacks)
thus dmg 896 dps
assuming burning its another 780 dps
assuming weapon swap bleeding and poison its another 500 dps
so total 2176 dps (without vulnerability it drops to 2k)

medzerk
643 dmg
assuming fury so 60% crit chance with 200% crit dmg so average dmg is 1.6
642*1.1*1.6 assuming burning its 1129 dps
assuming sigil procs its another 2k every 3-5 sec so 4 in average which is 500 dps
so total 1629 dps (no fury its drops to 1.4k +sigils procs)

now take it all in combo rotation you will get perma burning proc also gs#5 does 329 dps for 10 sec

now the medzerk got sow from focus which does huge dmg if hits 4-5k while hybrid got blocks for 3-4 sec of 780 dps so 3.5*780= 2.7k burning +direct dmg 1-2k …almost the same just not as burst

so the main difference is medzerk will burst . but if miss their dps drop down fast . while hybrid keep their sdps

also dont forget that the conditions pressure make enemies to use utilities early in the fight giving you more advantage

also thanks for watching my vids. one of them shown medzerk does 1.7k crit dmg while with the same skill i did 1.8k (no crit) and 800 burning 2 sec . maybe i was lucky …

i put videos of my testing build and games . i am not trying to prove build is op or i am op . and you r not rude at all and i like criticism

CMF.5461:

Five things that prevent me from being convinced condi guard is as good as you say:

Burn on Block
Aegis and protector’s strike are the primary “repetitive” blocks, with a long cooldown between burns (15s and upwards of 30+ if you use retreat). This will only net you about 2-4s of burning on a target doing maybe 2k dmg every 15 seconds. Shelter can provide a lot of burns, but then you are left without a defensive cooldown/heal

Radius of Permeating Wrath
240 range from the player restricts a lot of potential burn effects, especially when a majority of opponents in pvp are ranged (engi, ranger, mesmer, necro) Even ele and thiefs kite in and out and will not be in melee too long. This leaves warriors and other guardians who will melee you.

This is saved “somewhat” by point defense needing people to stand on a point, but often it is ranged aoe that wins that point not standing inside of it.

Torch to Burn Targets
If torch is used as a primary way to burn instead of VoJ/Permeating wrath, it can only burn 3 targets at a time. This is not horrible, but it limits your aoe potential. Also has a radius of 180, even worse than permeating wrath. Better burn duration than blocks and VOJ though.

Survival to see Burns
Guardian’s use blinds more so than blocks to survive damage as they have more of that available. After that they rely on a lot of dodging. Without crits you lose out on vigor. This can be made up for with energy sigils and/or intellect sigils. After that they rely on self healing either via meditations or AH if near allies.

If you do not have precision or 6 down valor, then you lose out on survival. But now you lose 6 points that you could use for virtues and zeal.

so now your burning build either does aoe burns but at regular damage, or you do single target burns at 33% extra damage. (I wish they would make both more accessible maybe like 4/0/6/0/4 and you could have permeating wrath and amplified wrath achievable)

Time to burn
This comes up time and time again, but there is no burst with burning. So a direct damage build can front load damage and get a kill, while a burning build needs time. The more time you give an opponent, the more time they have to either heal through your damage or kill you before you can finish your damage.

It was already shown that while condi builds can do as much as zerker builds theoretically. It will always be “12 seconds” behind. (another post showed how much burning damage they could do with whirling wrath stacking 12 seconds of burning, but in 12 seconds you could get a second whirling wrath off and doing double the original burning damage)

---

I “WANT” a burning/condi build to work and I keep theorycrafting them and testing them out, but they are not ready yet.

you looking on it so wrong

burn on block – focus – 3 block 36 cd, aegis at the start of the fight and 50% hp, shelter use it when need heal and prevent burst on you, virtue of courage 2 times with elite .
thus only playing defensive you can get 8-9 seconds blocks while AA is on average 0.5 sec its 16 stacks of burning for 1 sec , 16800~12k dmg
now you can say ppl will stow weapon and stop attacking – great they lose dps on you while some of your burning still ticks

permeating warth – dont use it as it not good at all imo as it only for melee (good for wvw zerg)

torch – great against thieves and melee classes . focus just better for any situation . dont forget cure conditions on allies
in some build can be used sw/t+scepter/f with 100% burning duration

vigor – yes you lose it but you gain condi pressure . thief will evade and spam #2 on sword to cleanse thus not hitting you so your endurance will be ok. also you got blocks

time to kill – medzerk kill golem in 6-8 sec depends on crit, hybrid kill in 8-10 sec , full condi kill in 12-15 sec . but in real fight medzerk will be blind, blocked, evades, dodge, while if you burning hit it will tick if they dodge/evade so in real fight both can kill at the same time while medzerk can burst 1 enemy nice if unpressured while hybrid will do good aoe dmg

so far i have tested with friends who fight against several classes as medzerk and hybrid build . most of the the time hybrid kill sooner then medzerk

also you forget to mention that hybrid guard can get 20 stack of vulnerability on enemy which is 20% more dmg (average will be 15%) also flame rune 7% more dmg , burning 10% more dmg , symbol 10% more dmg
while medzerk only got 10% dmg when burning

build tested 6,2,6,0,0 gs+sc/f

you know who put out the s/d 2,0,0,6,6 build ?
i tell you a secret. its not sizer build . rather ppl who tried out and post out builds while some expert players took it, improve the rotations and learn how to be useful with it and went with it to the ESL.

its a fact regarding dmg you keep saying its not . carrion hybrid (power and condition) guardian does more dps (dmg over time) and sdps ( sustain dmg over time) than the zerkmed meta

now its a fact ppl dont use it in the meta comp right now as the cele meta rules with some meta comp

if you look at my videos (and others) you will the dmg which is higher or equal and sometimes lower than the medzerk as zerk depends on hitting and crit dmg

i dont say hybrid guard is bunker or should be defending points. but if the came to this they can do it better than medzerk /mesmer/thief/engi/ranger and can sometimes handle 1v2 till help comes

if some higher lvl players could take it and maybe in the future they will i am pretty sure they will see some benefit from it

this build excel in counter and pressure the cele meta and thief very well as it got both nice direct dmg and condit pressure

i know we can convince you till we or other fight in the ESL and win with it (remember the condi ranger…. now you can see it in some ESL …. )

so far in tpvp with group i see more usefulness with the hybrid then the medzerk

in 1v1 both builds are fine and may be equal
but in group the hybrid shines

you dont have to target your enemy to do aoe dmg to others so in 3v3 you may hit 3 enemies lets say trying to cap or hold a point . so doing 700-800 dps on them while hitting your target for 1.8 dps is really good pressure

several fights i had against turret engi bunker guard and dd ele we manage to win this meta comp while he were ranger, hybrid guard, bunker guard just because i manage to pressure 3 of them all the time with burning and cleansing while the ranger pew pew the ele from range and the bunker buff me while i was using PF on the point so each time the ele rotate inside it and out he got burn and the engi with poor condi removal just died from me even i target the bunker to pressure him to cleanse early in the fight

you may say if i used other class we could manage to do the same like turret engi or mm/condi necro . but against bunker guard with stability rotation condi works best while i can dish out good direct dmg as well

other fight we had against 2 turret/kit engi and bunker guard it was really hard as the constant kd but still we manage to do nice

maybe its me but i hope more ppl will try it in group fight and maybe in higher ranks so they can comment and not just theory explain why other comp/build/class are better

Blasino.3128:

Actually S/D thief does a lot of damage due to its boons stealing. If you play with/against a skilled one its pretty kitten devastating.

Also, Euro’s best comps run bunker guards, with shatter boon stripping mesmers. This counters d/d ele’s pretty hard and if you throw in a skilled s/d thief its pretty deadly.

A big reason for the celestial comp’s rise in NA are two things 1) the buff to the celes ammy and 2) takes less coordination and rotating and its more forgiving to play. With a bunker guardian comp, you must rotate. If you guardian is sitting on a point by himself you aren’t doing your team justice. A bunker guardian shines with people around him. That is why you need to rotate points which takes great communication and trust.

i know sd does lots of dmg but if you check sizer group fight you will notice most of the time he is looking for the decap/free cap and not engaging in some 1v1 which just lose some time for his group where he could help maybe in 4v3

i know some ppl think if your team has a bunker guard he can save it alone and its so untrue as 1v2 he will die left alone or even 1v1 versus condi engi/necro

Megastorm.6219:

This build is almost identical to what I run in pvp honestly, except for staff I run GS. Works well, and it plays the way I like.

if you run with gs how much might stacks you have at the beggining and the middle of the fight?

i dont want to start an tpvp thread in the guaridan forum
but from what i have seen from the esl fights that the thief job is to manly decap or steal points and hardly do dmg rather going stealth or run away. thus the meta build for it is around more evades and not dmg
the cele meta is hard kitten. as it provid good sustain to class who can proc boons rapidly like ele and engi
there is still no specipic way to counter hybrid as its act same as medzerk . you just need more cleanse thats all.
so if medzerk is out of the meta the same goes for hybrid. but if somehow medzerk will be back again (when cele nerf will come) then i think hybrid will get its place

as most of the gw2 player not in the top tier tpvp i think still hybrid is useable (fun) but if you team against meta comp just reroll

so basically what most of you saying is that guard not needed in the current comp meta
maybe bunker guard but again turret engi can hold point better even in 1v2 scenarios

and most of you compare the hybrid guard to engi role

what is the current comp?
2 engis, saff ele, thief, ranger (condi or power)?!

the hybrid concept is good . what bad is the team comp which make your build useless but again also the medzerk.
if i see ele,guard,engi in the enemy team i reroll another class if my team dont need bunker

Benjamin.8237:

messiah.1908:

you know what really make thieves hate you ? conditions. when i block they get burn… while my symbol do dmg so total dmg is higher . and believe me thieves will disengage and use sb on you (the smart one)

Have you fought any top thief players? On Guardian you have burn, maybe poison. At most you will get 3 conditions on them. That is incredibly easy for a thief to cleanse let alone evade. That small amount of conditions can be cleansed with sword 2, shadow step, entering stealth, hitting 75% hp.

thief s/d is a meta for a reason . even shatter mesmer will have hard time and medzerk and it wont say that shatter or medzerk are useless build

i cant say i fought elite thieves as i dont look for them . i know to recognize good thief if he know how to counter me
thus most of them when they get burn they use sword 2 after reaching 50% hp and using SS when they get below 25% to get mostly distance for SB
they easy kite is just use SB and evade with poison spamming which guardian hate the most

i can say that the good one who killed me didnt killed me with s/d rather from sb after 2 min fight as most of the fight good thieves will kite . bad thieves try to burst when they shouldnt and coming close to a guardian is a big NO.

and i dont look for 1v1 to prove the build is ok or meta i just say this build works same and better in hybrid

and in group situation i dont look for the thieves rather the necro ele warrior guardian who stand on the point . if i se thief just spamming i use aoe and some conditions so push him back on defense givving my team few seconds of 3v2 while he is on SR SS etc..

Keksmuffin.1450:

I wasn’t talking about turret engi, I was talking about healing turret being better support than anything a condi guard would bring.

Saying purging flames would be better than traited f2 is pretty ridicolous. Traited f2 has 5 times the range, is instant and doesn’t take the utilityslot of your stunbreak. Apart from that you can reset the cooldown of your f2 by using your elite.

Also you didn’t get my point about 100-0ing people at all. I said zerker guard can make use of CCs from his team. You can burst people when your partner CCs or imobs people which is another plus point in group play.

Also pretty ironic that you say people who get 100-0’d would be “low lvl players” and then talk about 1v2ing people in the very next sentence.

You say your condi or hybrid guard would have more reliable damage even though you can avoid most of it just by saving cleanses for geo/doom swaps and not hitting into blocks. Good players will just stow weapon when you pop shield of wrath or shelter.

you still havent convinced me why zerk med better than hybrid

if its the f2 take cele ele
i dont use shield of wrath when ppl just AA i use it when they burst thus if they stow weapon i wont get burst and i can get few hits on them and burning . if they burst its blocked and proc burning so win win and also it proc on aoe dmg so i can get the block from it too.

and pf is better on point as ppl get in and out from it also conditions duration is 33% shorter which is nice too.

the geo doom for me is just for cover conditions the burning is the main source of condition dmg ticking 750-850 dps

Spartacus.3192:

Serval.6458:

Yes, virtues are like signets. Once you activate it, the passive stops working until it comes off cooldown (or in VoJs case, you have 3 points in radiance and kill something to refresh it.)

ok thanks…Well if i want to use Supreme Justice’s burn every 3 ticks then i guess i cant use VoJ . Such a stupid mechanic. grrrr

its not stupid. it make you choose
if you got plenty of burning proc you can use voj when you need to blind and /or when you want to burst with some combo which proc vulnerability 20 stacks (20% more dmg) while doing 6 sec bruning

in pvp or you go carrion or cele as you dont have dire states in pvp and rabid puts you in 10k hp so conditions will eat you alive much faster

if you play medzerk with 14.5k hp and 2.4k armor you should be ok with carrion 17.5k hp and 2.4k armor

on wvw dire is good and 1v1 you can do nicely but in group play if they got good cleanse class you wont be noticed

pvp runes – i like flame with power and dmg modifier

for the real discussion and not just qq

i am surely not high tier pvp player rather average one but i like to test things and theorycraft a lot

med zerk states:

power 2.1k
crit chance 43-63%
crit dmg 200%
hp 14.7k
armor 2.4k
as using full meditation the only support skill is F2 which cleanse 3 conditions every 50 sec

my build
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNAR7dlsApcoVDxZI8DNR8QZ1HUdAkAP61/wMkDA-TJRHwAf2fIwFBAZZAAPBAA
states:
power 2.05k
hp 17.4k
armor 2.4k
condition 1k
base dmg multiplier – 7% (rune)+ 10% symbol + vulnerability 10-15%
PF cleanse 3 conditions every 35 sec

so the main differences are HP and crit dmg+chance and 17%-32% dmg
i have tested it several time with friends with the same skills rotation which build kill faster
result – medzerk 1 sec shorter
but when i tested it when my friends use block/evade/dodge/blind on me the hybrid kill lots faster 5-6 sec
the conditions do 1.2k dmg which ignoring armor and even when cleanse you can put it back up easily and not depends on crit chance

also the defense on the hybrid do lots of dmg while buffing you up
med zerk who use block wont proc burning while hybrid will proc it so while on defense he is doing dmg 800 dps

also my symbols do vulnerability which your group now can hit harder
and my pf bringing nice fire field with some nice combo like 3 stack of might and fire aura and burning for 8 sec

regarding group play you can see hybrid can bring something (else) to the table

if you compare it to other conditions class like engi which got better cc, healing aoe blast, they got less condition dmg as your burning is 33% stronger and proc constantly
and yes their torret are OP atm if you fight on point but my condition are aoe my dmg is higher so… it really depends on the group comp. if i need point holder then torret engi all the way

Keksmuffin.1450:

“Your autoattacks hit for not very much so you have almost no counterpressure, as soon as your weaponswap is on cooldown people can basicly freecast on you and you’re forced to blow your defensive cooldowns really fast while zerker can put symbols or smite under him and stuff like thieves will get punished really hard for engaging without the guard even using defensive cooldowns.”

you know what really make thieves hate you ? conditions. when i block they get burn… while my symbol do dmg so total dmg is higher . and believe me thieves will disengage and use sb on you (the smart one)

Keksmuffin.1450:

“Also one of the things that lets you notice that you have a zerker guard on your team is insane cleave on downed bodies, especially from GS. The best thing condi guard can do is swapping weapons for poison and then do pretty weak autoattacks.”

my auto attacks do 800-1000 dmg with 800 burning (100% chance) bleeding 300, poison 200
medzerk will do 700-900 and if crit 1400-1800 (60% chance)

Keksmuffin.1450:

“Zerker actually has some kind of cc with gs or hammer that your teammate can make use of, your teammate ccing targets does not really doanything for condi guard since you hit your passive burning stuff and instant weaponsswaps anyways while it can mean being able to 100-0 targets for zerker guard which I’ve done a lot in 2v2s together with hambows or rifle engis. Also condi guard neither has a safe stomp nor good cleave on downed bodies which makes it more likely that people can rez against you. Also zerker can support their teammate better since they can afford going into virtues and get the cleanse on f2 or even stability on f3”

as you see i am using gs either so same skill and rotation
instead of f2 i got pf which is on shorter cd

if you down someone from 100-0 he is low lvl player if he didnt dodge/evade etc..
my aoe burning can bring in 1v2 both of them down
my burning and conditions make the enemies use their utilities earlier in the fight while medzek hardly

and some how i find it hard to kill engi on point . but if i just range them its easier but they contest the point while doing so till help comes

so tl:dr i think ppl must to reconsider and test the hybrid build solo and with group
i know i got lots of compliments and whispers how i manage to do lots of dmg and conditions pressure
sure medzerk will still continue to do hard dmg if they crit on low armor while hybrid can do the same on every armor

flame – more burning and more dmg 7% more power
balthazar – more condition, more burning less direct dmg
traveller – less dmg, less condition 25% movement

you do the math and choose what you like

i run flame and i am more on point

not tested it fully yet
its more a group build rather 1v1
the might though i manage to hold 15 stacks on the testing area
before the fight 12 stack with staff and 3 with swap

so here is my new theorycraft idea mainly for pvp
bit history:
as i play for 6 months around the hybrid idea with burning and direct dmg in the pvp arenas i notice that the main difference between the meta medzerk to the carrion is that the zerk must play like hit and run even in 1v1 situation thus his sustain dps is lower where the hybrid is much higher
also i manage to see that even with low armor 2.3k i can manage to hold points for few seconds till help comes even in 1vX situations (not all)

so as my movement is bit slow as i dont use swiftness or traveler runes my main objective is to play around points and not roam between them (like thief or mesmer)

and as i saw many guards (bunker or zerk) with 15-20 might stacks which give both condition and power dmg of 525-600 i want to test the idea where i can get higher state the the carrion amulet while holding points maybe better and doing dmg while doing so (not like the bunker)

so here is the idea
carrion states: power 2k, condition 1k , armor 2.39k , 7% crit chance and 170% crit dmg, 0 healing power

my new state with 15-20 might stacks
power 2.4k, condition 1.1k, armor 2.83k, 25% crit chance and 199% crit dmg, 638 healing power

nice ha ?

the build :
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNAW5dlsApZoVDxbI8DNR8AVZASAmJ5/X/jZkDA-TZRHwAFeCAc2fIwBBAwFA4YZAA
i am using meditation but you can switch to ah shouts but i find meditations give me more chance to stay alive while (not supporting my team)
i use staff for the 12 might stacks and mace/focus for the blocks abilities and battle sigils and when i crit i get aoe might which even in 1v1 i get 20 might stacks
i got 2 symbol which proc vulnerability which buff my dmg

more offensive build
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNAW8dlsApZoVDxbI8DNR8QZ1HUdAkAP61/wMkDA-TZRHwAFeCAc2fIwBBAwFA4YZAA
same 6,2,6,0,0 but with 15-20 might stacks

with group fight take ah and shouts like this one
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNAW5dlsApWotCxZI8DNRCBl1Mw+DPPFXHgLcAA-TZRHwAFeCAc2fIwBBAwFA4YZAA

would love to get comments

another few clips from tpvp mostly action
1v1 mesmer and bunker guard – were you could see the full potnetial of the burst and versus the guardian how it pushed him to play defense and used all his utilities till he died
1v1 versus zerkmed where you can see how his dmg is basically lower than mine even when he got 15 might stacks (slow motion some moment where he did 1700 dmg which crit while i did 1800+1000 from conditions)
some group play 3v4 and 1v3 (where i died as i want to test how i can handle these situations) but i manage to down 2 till help came with burning …

i started to get compliment for this build and gamestyle mainly from other medzerk builds which is nice to see from the guardian community – so GG all

i came up with another build but this is for other thread

hope you like it

@Saiyan – you have to be careful in your theory dmg
i agree that hybrid does more Sdps (sustain dps) then zerk med- – its a fact proven
but in group fight the conditions will be cleanse . and again for the hybrid who can put the burning easily up again the cleanse are not an issue

here you can see full dire condi guardian in group fight and the dps on the group (gimmick build but lots of fun)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfE4SLm0Cfc

so far for me i can say its new build which ppl dont got used to it so they think you are zerk med and act accordingly while you conditions do their thing with 1k dps without being noticed

i have fought 1v1 almost every class with great success (sure i got down many times if i did mistakes ) but always i get compliments how my dmg is high or the 1v1 is very strong offense
i even took it to 1v2 and 1v3 and manage to down 1-2 even if i down as well

again ppl dont understand the build concept yet
its not zerkmed where you go in burst and go out (like any other zerk build)
its more go in block, aoe the area , use PF for more aoe, cc , push the enemies to use their utilities at the start of the fight so your team will have the upper hand even if you get down (or go back to refresh)

so far the ppl i fought with i manage in 1 first burst to put them in 50% hp 90% of the cases. after they use utilities or heal skill in my seconds burst which put them in 25% hp while i am 80% hp without using any heal/utilities.
sure some class will just counter you in 1v1 like d/d ele, hambow warrior, turret engi if fought in a point, etc… but like any other class and build its not OP

thanks for the tips

never saw 5k crit on my hammer spirit

Spartacus.3192:

mPascoal.4258:

Saiyan.1704:

mPascoal.4258:

Why are ppl still trying to make Condi Guard a thing? Wanna play Condi? Go Engi, Necro, Ranger, whatever, all these are better than Guardian for condi play and any team, ANY team in their right mind will pick this to any Condi Guard out there. Condi Guard to have damage comparable to Zerk Medi will lose all team utility. Zerk Medi already has few, but will still have some because of the boon destribution and group condi clear. Condi Guard loses all that in orther to stay up with the damage of the standart Zerk Medi. Well then I will use the Burst Medi, and I want to see you do similiar damage after that ….

Zerk Medi isn’t already part of the meta, Condi Guard will never be there

The only thing you got right is the fact condi isn’t meta.
My 20606 build alone does exceptionally more aoe damage in zergs than meta zerks, with the exception of Absolute Resolution (how much team utility do zerk meds bring??)
Zerk meds do “very little” against a team with Two celes ele’s, a turret engi, thief and >insert sustain class here<.

You have nothing to justify your claims other than “Not meta, doesn’t work.”

ON ZERGS?
Wtf are you talking about? CONDI FOW WVW ZERGING!? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL Best joke of 2014, and Condi Guard for zergs

I have admit ive been testing hybrid condi in zergs and im finding it quite hard work. the 2/0/6/0/6 requires that you be right inside the zerg or at least next to it for the Permeating Wrath and i basically die too fast. due to lack of toughness/sustain. 4/0/6/0/4 using GS Scepter/Torch works better against zergs because the scepter will proc burning every 3rd hit and if you use zealous blade then GS heals when close. I feel that Hybrid/Condi builds are better suited for roaming solo/small groups not zergs.

Maybe i just need more practice.

on zerg conditions wont work so well on the melee train cause the constant cleanse with shouts from the warrior and guardian
but on the backline the hybrid works better than the medzerk as it does better dmg dps or pressure the backline to use heals skills and focus on defense and not offence
guardian on zerk usually fo soldier or support while basically doing low dmg while giving boons and cleanse but if you look at them in a different approach you could see whole new abilities and role for them

gg
s/t is great against thieves as they cant stand near you and when they go SB you kite them with scepter focus for blocks

do more and dont be nervous
try to do more 1080pi and shorter videos like 10-15 min

i would like to see more class like shatter mesmer , turret engi, d/d ele, bunker guard etc

mPascoal.4258:

Why are ppl still trying to make Condi Guard a thing? Wanna play Condi? Go Engi, Necro, Ranger, whatever, all these are better than Guardian for condi play and any team, ANY team in their right mind will pick this to any Condi Guard out there. Condi Guard to have damage comparable to Zerk Medi will lose all team utility. Zerk Medi already has few, but will still have some because of the boon destribution and group condi clear. Condi Guard loses all that in orther to stay up with the damage of the standart Zerk Medi. Well then I will use the Burst Medi, and I want to see you do similiar damage after that ….

Zerk Medi isn’t already part of the meta, Condi Guard will never be there

sry to discourage you but regarding dmg – hybrid will do better dps solo or aoe
while your medizerk will get blind dodge evade the hybrid will continue to dmg by its conditions ticking
sure you can burst nicely but after the burst you pretty much w8ing for your next burst

regarding f2 aoe cleanse you right . hybrid will lack it but will do better dmg and can take pf which is also aoe cleanse (medi taking cop)

the problem is not enough ppl trying it in tpvp and show it off

what do yuu think of this build
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNAR8dlsApZoVBxOI8DRh8gkVdL7cp6JBecVMA-TpBFwAo2fIyRAIaZg2HEgFXAAAPAAA

hybrid with conditions and power (i might change to cele amutlet and /or traveler)
spirit do nice dmg and burning to buff thier low dmg dps
i got nice blocks abilities and breakstun every 12 sec and ok condi cleanse with pf and sigils

havent test it out fully yet

mainly for 1v1 and small group play

lol maybe so so you say theoraticaly sword comand is just for vulnerability and burning ?!
instead of med or shout which are much much better?!

he try to contest the point so i kept the range most of the fight till i saw him pop all his skills and burst him with my GS
i AA first so he used his shiled after 3 attacks and when i came close he use GS for aoe and blind but in between my pressure with haste put him below 30% hp so he needed heal and vurtues i guess or he panicced

yesterday in some spvp i fought a spirit guardian while i was on my power ranger
i was so glad to see it
bad thing when he killd me while it was 1v3 he jump on my corps and miniute after on 1v1 on a point he was dead in 10 sec (i never jump)

anyhow i noticed few things
1. he “burns” all his blocks/immunitiy/blind/heal to early as he couldnt handle my pew pew pressure from 1500-1200 range
2. his spirits hardly touched me or even do significant dmg (i was zerker)
3. as he used spirits he hasnt had any defensive utilities like meditations to help him

i did some 1v1 with friend while i run spirit build and yes it hard to play with it
even if i put my defensive weapon mace shiled scepter so my spirits will be free to do dmg – so against every class i was killed .and if i were more offensive i asked why to use spirits at all

yes you can use them

i tried spirit weapons and fail with it
they die to fast while doing low dmg and have long cd

for dmg roaming in wvw

go with zerk 2,1,6,1,4 or 2,0,6,6,0 med build

Chaos Archangel.5071:

I think there’s a bit of a misunderstanding here.

Sup is talking about tPvP scenarios such as teamfights ect. While 1v1 Condi shatter can really wreck classes even with high condi removal, this gets much harder in 2v2/3v3 situations where clones are less reliable, it’s harder to nail shatters and enemies aren’t only cleansing themselves but EACHOTHER. For example two torment shatter Mesmer would have a hard time against two cele-Eles, whereas 1 torment shatter wouldn’t have as much difficulty against 1 cele ele…

Celele?!

may be so but is there any difference from condi necro or ranger or engi?

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Quick question: When ele/engi get nerfed (the classes need to be nerfed themselves not cele ammy), do you think lockdown Mesmer will shine? Otherwise I agree with most of what was said besides condi shatter Mesmer, as the team fight is actually kinda good. It is almost impossible to not have some torment on in the fight, its basically perma 4+ stacks of torment in the fight for the enemy team. Putting 15+ stacks of torment on someone and watching them die in 3-5 seconds also never gets old

i see more lockdown build in tpvp than ever. i hate them when i play guardian/warrior
but i dont see them doing much dmg rather shut me down while other being dmg me

and my torment stacks 5 aoe with 5 confusion stacks which means 400-800 torment dmg and 1k confusion. which make them think twice if to move or use skills/dodges
some kind of shutdown

Supcutie.2538:

@Dondagora That strategy might work in lower end gameplay, but taking that much time to get your damage off in higher end games will result in your team being dead. Not to mention, generosity sigil transfers torment first every time. Sure you have more survivability with the condi spec but the ratio of sustain to effective damage output is less than shatter, especially when you consider clone pathing from positioning that you need to have and clones being killed by aoe.
Chaos and I were just talking about how there are good builds and great builds. Condi may be a good build, but it’s not good enough for high end play. Of course, having fun builds for all level of play is important. As of now, I would say play what you want since celestial overshadows us anyway.

i cant comment on high tier tpvp but i did some tpvp and 1v1 against cele ele /guardian and every build with good cleanse etc.
they really hate me
even if i just burst them and they get cleanse in this time they dont do any dmg to my team
i basically shut them down even if not killed
yes ele can run from me but let them run from the point leaving your team with 3v2
also its more harassing build which make the enemy to use utilities while your team has the advantage

i try to compare it to condi necro or condi ranger and the burst dmg is much higher aoe or single target
sure the necro got more health with ds and fear but condi shatter get more burst condi dmg output with 3 shatters and some daze abilities
i use dd trait so even when my clones die they proc conditions

i guess till someone will try it out in high tier we will never know

also i try to compare dps between shatter power and condi
yes power one can down enemy fast but then need to blink away for their next cd burst while condi just shatter the hell of the point over and over without the need to w8 for next big cd to burst
so while power will do 20k dmg on 1 enemy condi will do 5-10k on 3 enemies

i dont fully agree

ah works on 5 allies so there is not much difference between big group to small group
the main difference is shouts support your team while meditation support you
but both can work well at the same environment

it really depends what you want to do with it in wvw
solo?
group?
zerg?
roaming?

supporting?
dmg?
bunker?

if you aim for average you will be average gaining nothing

the dmg is too low i think 0.04*weapon*power/armor = is 37-40

for wvw
taking camp solo go with 6,x,6,x,x full carrion
for zerg battle only if you team dont needs you as ah guard go with the same build but stay at the backline as your armor will be very low
take elite tome which proc aoe burning for 4 sec alongside nice direct dmg
for more hit and run (like thief/mesmer) go with 2,6,6,0,0 build with carrion or other combination of power @ condi with gs and sword+focus) but again hit and run as you cant take the hit from the enemy melee

or you can go full dire and get 1.2k burning dmg with low direct dmg which can be 500 so total dps around 1.7k from AA

play with the necros back line

builds:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQRArd8flsApZoVDxcIEENR8Ql1YUdAkAP61/wMkDA-TFyCABAcCAOZ/hX0P4j6PT8EASUJYWK/k4gAQKAYmDA-w
full dire burning dmg

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQRArd8flsApboVDxcI8DNR8QY93bbVBX/PnD-T1BEwAs2f4l6Pe0P4UZAgTAAXlgUV6RKAY2CA-w
hybrid with 100% burning duration and nice power with armor

nice thanks

but i am bit confused
if the shatter role is a roaming dmg dealer thus trying to flip 1v1 to 2v1 etc
why to compare it to condi shatter
i dont think condi shatter is a roaming role rather holding/capping points till helps comes but not as a bunker
like taking close or far
as condi shatter can take 1v1 almost every class and if play right can do 1v2 for short time as power shatter will burst and blink away from 1v2 as it not his streangh and role in the arena. also d/d ele will just burst and heal away from 1v2

sure some builds with condi cleanse wont feel you but as the bunker guard or warrior for power shatter

i play tpvp for fun with 0,4,4,0,6 build and find it very effective
though my main problem is power shatter in 1v1 but in team fight i always get the highest points with killing and capping . and if i teamup with bunker guard on mid its so fun 2v2 or 2v3

i comper condi shatter to condi ranger/necro/engi for that matter

also the condi shatter can push on a point nice aoe dmg

also cleave count

they shoudl make it more like gw1 ritualist spirits
they should bound to 1 location and affect this area
like

hammer will aoe kd every 5 sec radios 180 and do dmg every 1 sec 250
sword will do dmg every 0.5 sec for 800 dmg and vulnerability every 3 seconds . radios 180
bow will cleanse condition from allies every 3 sec and remove boon from enemies every 3 sec radios 180
shield will heal and burns enemies with each attack 180 radios

or you can put it like active and passive abilities as if you see you spirit gonna die you activate it for dmg/kd/heal etc

trait changes
+60 radios (adapt)
50% more dmg (master)
10% attack speed (adapt)
100% more health (master)
20% recharge (adapt)
spirit can follow you (gm trait)
spirit attack do bleeding/poison/cripple/blind condition (master)

thus more role instead the bunker meta or the zerk meta
more fun with spirits

and maybe elite spirit (deaming)

p/d is around conditions
so AA should do more dmg
every class AA does more dmg then the p/x AA
also p/p set need stealth / evade skills like d/d #3 #5, d/p #5#2 , s/d #3 ,p/d #5

if they could make some p/p skills to blast or leap then using #5+#? would give the thief stealth with the cost of using 70% of initiative points

i played a bit in wvw trap power build with trapper runes . it almost was perfect in group play as i could burst, use stealth, find new location and burst again
sure if i was targeted i was in trouble

also i like the p/p+dp set and use it only in group play as p/p can handle 1v1 or 1v2 so d/p is for escape (or d/d with cnd)