Guild Wars 2

Lissair.4273:

0/4/4/0/6 is extremely strong 1v1, and really survivable.

Link to video

Using this build: Build link

Nightmare runes to make them run, and possibly with mirror of anguish as well, the torment just kind of keeps them down. In addition with staff, it’s really not easy to cleanse all those condis and unless they get a lucky cleanse they may just get a weakness/vuln clear or something like that.

It gives a crazy amount of burst as condi as well kittenter still doing some fairly decent damage on top of that. Certainly had a lot of fun playing it.

you say it op – incorrect
even in the beginning of the video when you test it i saw 2k dmg 1.5k*3 and than drop down to 2 stacks of torment
now fight a necro who cleanse in the right moment or thief who go stealth and cleanse all your torment stacks will be cleansed asap while you need to play defense for your next shatter
also power shatter has 20k burst dps combo every 15 sec – isnt in op? no

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

I don’t get the notion of being better in group play though, power shatter is also group damage. Also it is not uncommon to have an ele opponent with cleansing water around in group fight. Am I missing something? :L

it really depends which group / players/ size/ purpose

in pvp both power and condition are better – while condi can now more contest a point and survive better in 1v2 situation while power will burst and stealth away to his next burst while condi will constant shatter and cause aoe dmg on a point

in wvw zerg play – both power or condi are the same – they both dont do much to the melee train , both need to focus the periphery . while condi will pressure the ele to go water and cleanse early then when needed or interrupt his burst while focusing on defense
same goes for the shatter power
i can say i saw sometimes when i shatter on the periphery i did nice 1.5k dps for 5 sec aoe which is greater than a power shatter and confusion really shutdown thief/ranger/necro/ele . and also notice that the actual sdps for the condi is better then the power one and the power shatter is squishy so need to burst and back away while condi will look for the next target to confuse

in small group if you already got a thief or other bursty class the condi mtd really shines as it add more aoe constant dmg unlike the power shatter spike and stealth

for me mtd is better against fast moving or pressing skills classes like all power builds
rangers, dd ele, warrior, engi
guardian can soak it up longer and necro also

thief still pain in the arss if you dont catch them first with torment

for me power shatter can still win against condi mtd

but in group play i think mtd can be better or even equal to power shatter which is good

pls show me 25 stacks of torment on wvw and the enemy didnt die
if i stack above 10 the enemy just melting before i can stack even more lol

MSFone.3026:

For WvW do you guys think torment runes are necessary?

for roaming or small group go with perplexity as you can stack 15 confusion fast if you go with pistol
if you go with torch you gonna enjoy only the 3 stacks comes from the rune and rarely the +5 with interrupt

with group i go with torment as it provide +2 aoe and longer duration of torment with food its 85% duration so even warrior and guardian with -60% are feeling it
also with good shatter on group and mantra heal you can stack 6-8 torment stacks aoe which is nice (also dont forget necros use aoe torment so both of you can stack nicely

zapv.8051:

Anyone have a shatter build with sinister stats for wvw? I’d love to play some hybrid shatter.

i once tried this out (so with sinister you will have more condi less crit chance)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAraRl0npItdqxMNcrNSqBh6x8miSyEEgS2huB-TVyCABNqEEgTAANq/80+DpoH4inAgcaCo4QAUlyPSBAzcA-w

with shatter and might on weapon swap you will have around 10 stacks of might

but you squishy like zerk shatter but your dmg – omg
just dont get hit by surprised

:D
yes i notice few time i ask myself why didnt he shattered
but did good anyhow so who cares

hi guys
i love to test builds and can say i tested the mtd long before the patch and harder after it came
i can say my life now is much easier and even can fill a part in a group (even zerg – average aoe condi dmg 1k dps to 3-5 enemies and control the periphery better than before)

builds i tested:

basic condi – 0,4,2,2,6 – not much condi cleanse but need to kill fast and time your dodges right – it has it all. clone cover condition when die and when shatter more condition. with 8-10 torment most my enemies died along side 10 confusion stacks
this build using more the scepter/torch than staff .
more suitable to any circumstances – so far my favorite

0,6,0,2,6 – more condi interrupter with pistol and signent and F3 (in wvw using perplexity so basic 10 stacks of torment , 15 stacks of confusion).
more suitable to team support and taking the enemy ele supporter

4,4,0,0,6 – didnt feel right to me in the hand of conditions and not power

0,4,4,0,6 – more IE staff which alone can stack 20 bleeds (so no need to cry over torment )

0,4,0,4,6 – sure you get more #2 scepter time but who needs it if your enemy already cover with 10 stacks and going to die. good versus s/d thieves and more 1v1

2,4,2,0,6 – need mantra to cleanse and add cripple condi to cover your stacks – good against ele as it gives the most condi covers as clones dies

0,0,6,2,6 – pu torment (yes yes had to try it out) – the stealth give to the chance to create more clones to shatter and Mi when shatter is very nice.
didnt like the pu before and dont need it now

all in all the mtd is now great GM strait. you cant shatter like the power ones and have to bait your enemy while your armor is average 2600 and health also .
ppl can run away from you like the pu so if they smart and know they are low on cleanse thats what they will do.
in 1vX the mesmer have better chances 30% to win as condi (not like 5% as before)
in group fight finally better condi support (need to learn some tricks to land full 5 clones shatter before they died )
still condi builds will give you harder time like ranger and necro. engi not much as before as confusions kills them as they need to spam

cool vid
i like it too in small group fights
i am using 0,4,2,2,6 and DD trait at start bit pressing my enemy with condi if my clones dies and then i push them with shatter and finish them

the main difference from shatter power is that you have to bait your enemy and w8 for them to cleanse and hit your #2 scepter

i also prefer the torch for more confusion stacking

Zadarh.1932:

messiah.1908:

i play other mtd build (non pu)

have you ever killed an shatter mesmer or s/d thieves

they are my worst nightmare

i will later post it and explain why i think its better then yours … (imo )

Hey Messiah,
I have not fought a shatter Mesmer with this build yet (really it’s only a few days old) but I have killed more than a few thieves with it in pvp. The scepter 2 in pvp is a thief killer, they are usually downed or they run and hide.

Sadly in WvW there are fewer capture circles so they run farther away and stealth longer.

Here are my thoughts regarding thief fighting
Firstly all of my utilities are stun breakers, if a thief pounces on me with a daze n dmg combo I will more than likely use mirror images+heal(to wash off blind)+any shatter but not mind wrack. Because the thief is on top o me he took the shatter at point blank.

Then dodge,dodge + press 2 (how can I say press 2? What if I am using the wrong weapon?!? I cannot be using the wrong weapon!!!! Staff 2 is phase retreat, I have 3 staff clones out rdy to mess up the thief. If it’s the scepter I have that beautiful torment block!!!!! And if you are using heal mantra you can heal while blocking if it’s charged!)

Thief comes back with stupid rotation, decoy+wep swap+dodge+heal(remove blind)+ shatter again. Press 2…

Alls the thief is doing is slowing me down, while this is going on I am still moving towards a camp I want to take.

If you are near the ruins jump into the deep water, only a fool would follow a Mesmer in the water!!! Perma blind thief cannot Perma blind in the water. Smart thieves know this and will stay out, dumb ones will jump in to their deaths. Sometimes I feign panic before jumping in so they jump in out of excitement.

When it comes to thieves stay calm/focused and DONT BLOW ALL YOUR UTILITIES AT ONCE!

I am actually thinking about putting together a Mesmer vs series, it will be posted here if I do but first I am going to put up some wvw map strategy tips.

thanks

any thief i can handle but the s/d (good ones who are patient) in wvw i mean
they perma dodge/ evade is more than 50% chance i miss my shatter so my only chance is IE with staff more than shatter but then they run away cleanse and repeat
and shatter mesmer take me less in 1 min as they know all our tricks
in pvp i hardly lost yet in 1v1 in hot join or tpvp (but king of the hill i lost 50%) versus thief as it hard to win the stealth game

here is a short video demonstration

in hot joins

here are 2 of my variation to the Mtd build

i was playing it before the patch with average success and after the patch with above the average (sometimes huge with QQ followed)

build 1:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNArfWl0npMtNqxTNcrRitBZqLcqag6hckVWyAMMA-T1yCABVcIAA4EAgj6PvoFIFdBYp0j59Hm4IAklyAJeAAjpEkUAQsGA-w

build 2:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAraWlknpMtNoxTNcrRysBZqOcqdg6k0kYWyAkMA-TlyCABVcIAA4EAgj6PpoPALleTcEAWe/hsUGIxDAYMlgkCAi1AA-w

pros:
IE with staff can put lots of pressure by itself while you running around – my best was 20 stack of bleeding with burning (3k dps)
build1 can put a lot of torment if you play it smart try at start get your enemy to cleanse. that’s why i use the DD trait (they dont know if i am pu so they kill my clones and think i am pu while getting 3-5 bleed stacks and AA with burning or torment
and boom i do some dodging and use MI for 5-6 clones and walla 12 stacks of torment and 9 of confusion while being daze followed by confusion images for more 5 stacks and the enemy put aoe or attack me i use illusionary counter for more 5 stacks of torment and use heal for more 2 stacks
this build very useable in group fight even zerg when i target the periphery and also suitable in 1v1 and excel in small group fights

build 2 converted for more confusion stacks and cc and more useable in 1v1 and small group fights

if i see i cant shatter as i want to, like with guardian s/d thieves or engi with good aoe control i use IE and staff and spread my clones around

i didnt go for 4,4,0,0,6 or 0,4,0,4,6 as i think dd trait is a key here to confuse and to punish when your clones die before shattered while with weapon swapping you will do 3 more bleed stacks so its nice pressure

cons:
average armor
no boons as pu
no many cleanse but you can take mantra if needed
no speed (but let them come )

my biggest problem are shatter mesmer and s/d thieves (hit and run tactic) as my dmg is dot i need them to stay close to me and not stealth away and even if i hit them with torment nicely they back away cleanse it and repeat as i lacking in conditions variety stacking

i will try to put example video of it

i play other mtd build (non pu)

have you ever killed an shatter mesmer or s/d thieves

they are my worst nightmare

i will later post it and explain why i think its better then yours … (imo )

for me i still dont see the mtd change as great
from 6 stacks to 8 stacks in average as some of the clones die before shatter and only if my#2 block hit i can get above 10 stacks
and if the enemy decide not to fight me its like the pu kite useless build

but is small group fight when my clones shattered and do some nice 5 stacks aoe its nice pressure which the mesmer never had in group fight

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Even in dire, thief survivability in zerg sucks since he has to give up utilities for venoms to buff 4 others. Considering how fast condis are cleansed in zerg, I don’t see how venom share thief is any good in comparison to the usual zerg classes. Maybe my view is affected by my dislike of venom share gameplay. It’s passive as kitten, the only engaging part is when you try to not die without your utilities.

Anet should rename Venom Share to Walking Venom Dispenser.

you forget this

use immobilizer venom on 4 other members
than catch some melee and attack him
the group cant cleanse 3*4=12 times in 2 sec so you probably will catch him and kill him
so make it now with chill also and you probably catch 3-5 enemies which give your group the advantag

as much as i agree that venoms can contribute much more
still i dont hear/see ppl calling for venom thieves (ele/guard/warrior/necro/mesmer – yes!)

group that realize that venom can buff their melee train with 2k condi dmg and cc
and thief that knows how to use venom can basicaly put constant cc on the enemy along side the poison field and ganking some low hpwhile venom on cd (as the zerk thief can do)

but you must to be in the melee group or you wont be able to controle with whom your venoms share

IGN: pooff
Role: condi and theorycraft
Server: desolation(EU)
Playstle: WvW and pvp
Time: 8pm gmt+2

Carighan.6758:

Hrm, interesting concept but I’d go a step further:

Power Block
Your daze effects last 400% longer but no longer interrupt their target or prevent ability usage. Instead, any skill used while under the effect of Daze reduces total Power, Condition Damage or Ferocity by 15% for 5 seconds, stacking. The stat drained depends on whether the skill dealt direct damage, dealt a critical hit or applied a condition. Multiple effects can happen.

maybe too strong as it can stack so ppl just spam it …

but i really miss the gw1 mesmer concept power block/ interrupt as in gw2 it just another zerk concept with powerful combos and nothing else

take the name of the trait and make it like it means
power block

put your enemy power/condition on 33% for 5 sec so no need on cd , effect thieves also
give the mesmer few seconds of dmg reduction or prevent the enemy executing powerful attacks while in this stance.

i would go with
2 shatter
2 condi pressure
1 interrupt

pu is bit useless and cant hold as he needs stealth

my build for the condi would be
0,4,4,2,4 with staff+sc/p
2,4,2,2,4 with staff+sc/t
they can do nicely 1v2 and hold points long enough while their illusion do huge dmg

interrupter would be
6,4,0,0,4 condi staff+sc/p or zerk gs+s/f with mantra and signet

split:
1 condi go far – as he can hold points longer the middle can get help sooner from the shatter home which would be maybe 4v3 with more burst dmg

1 shatter go home and then middle

the other 3 go middle while having condi pressure , aoe interrupt and burst dmg while their clones when die doing nice pressure on the point

i am using condi build 0,4,4,2,4 staff+sc/p
can do some 1v2 on a point till allies come and support with lots of condi pressure and interrupt res etc

also 6,4,0,0,4 condirupter for more support role

fun to play

w8ing to the shatter condi to test it as for now not very strong as the above builds

i am playing with LB +GS full zerk with trap rune and 2 traps spike and frost
nice for roaming and zerging if you in bad spot
dmg is nice
the traps are used to cc, stealth and reposition

here is the vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNpVtBBBHHk&feature=youtu.be

the first few clips me and rifle engi holding far point in 2v2 and 2v3 and even with few mistake which made be back off to heal my clones did nice 1k aoe with bleeding and burning
then short 1v1 versus warrior power and 1v1 condi warrior
then shout down a ranger almost all his skills
shortly after fun fight with guardian – both went down by my stupid mistakes
and some more short nice fights

i didnt mean the trap p/p

condition do round down and the enemies you fought with were without food as far as i notice

i do agree immobilize is much needed in the p/p set but try it against warrior with food duration and howlebrak runes with the trait -33% and you will notice immobilize doesnt stack to these guys

i am too try to find p/p useful builds but its hard if anet dont contribute to it

regard the build

i try 1v1 in king on the hill arena – failed
thief – d/d or s/d used 2,0,0,6,6 build so with the dodges/evades i could put him down to 25% hp then he SR and its game over for me
mesmer shatter – 4,4,0,0,6 hard match as the burst dmg is just too high
warrior – LB+HM – 2,0,6,0,6 equal match but i lost as i miss the dodge on the hammer but conditions ticked nicely

but the build did good on hotjoin and tpvp i joined even on 1v1 so… team support mainly

on wvw on zerg fight again mesmer hardly noticed versus the melee train but i can shut down ele/necro/thief with stun and confusion

Clownmug.8357:

How does confusion proc while someone is stunned/dazed?

if you daze/stun while enemy activate his skills you will interrupt so with perplexity runes it will proc 5 stacks of confusion and maybe 3 more
so now the enemy will have 8 stacks of confusion and if you use #3 scepter you will have 5 more and with #5 torch its 3 more (can bounce) so the best is 16 stacks

you want to try use it while the enemy prepare to burst you so his speed skills will proc the dmg before he will use cleanse skills

in the video i am uploading you will see 1900 dmg *4 time on ranger in pvp (no perplexity rune there )

the stun/daze proc confusion from sigil and alongside with scepter +5
i dont shatter as i can reveal myself wide open

i said group support so no need in swiftness

you right on the fury (i used iduelist ) so take long range manipulation

the staff #2 is 8 sec and not 10sec

my main dmg is burning and bleeding (in pvp can be 2k dps) cover by cripple/vulnerability etc

doesnt the 4.25 sec round down to 4 sec and also the 1.75 sec to 1 sec
and also with -66% duration on melee classes its only 0-1 sec?

so guardian/warrior/ele wont notice it at all

?!

i played almost similar build but with smoke screen for perma blind

hey fellow mesmers

didnt see in so far in any thread (or i missed it)

here is a build i thought of and tested in hot joins

pvp build
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNArfWlknpMtNoxGNcrNSpxgyySj0BURBl8kyB-TZRFwALOBAAOCAK3fIxjAIaZAA

wvw build
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNArfWlknpMtNoxGNcrNSpxgyySj0BURBl8kyB-TFyCABAcEAq4EAgj6PpoPALlfLv/wEPCgxUCSKAYmDA-w

main concept is group support and disable enemy rhythm and skills for faster kill

the conditions can stack nicely while your enemy daze/stun and do 2k dps on average and on 1v1 you can do 3k dmg dps
the main dmg comes from IE +staff clones

cons:
condi build can eat you if you get surprised
guardian can take condi dmg

if you spread your clones far from each other and your enemy focus on you , most chance you will win

video will be up soon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNpVtBBBHHk&feature=youtu.be

dont go 1vzerg in wvw
stay above 1000 range from enemies
go hot joins and practice

Windwalker.7421:

messiah.1908:

you wont get the effect as power shatter ever

Perhaps, but that’s an Apples vs. Oranges comparison.

Torment is not only about damage, it’s about control. The whole thing that makes Torment balanced is that you do not absolutely need a cleanse to counter it, you only need to stop moving to cut it’s damage in half. This aspect can not be overlooked!

torment is unti movement skill which start to do dmg after staking above 5 stacks
confusion is unti skill/dodge use which start to do nice dmg above 8-10 stacks

so warrior with shout can turn the tide if he just use 1 skills which give him 8 sec immunity to condi and have 2 skills which cleanse every 20 sec (if i am right)
so in pvp area you wont be any threat to him on 1v1 and he could hold point better then you
thief d/p easily cleanse your conditions
guardian with good aoe will kill your clones and cleanse easily
etc

my point is that
if i manage to put 8 stack of torment without shatter it means my enemy is bad or used all his cleanse so i will win . so 15 stack of torment with no clones wont do any different

the only difference is in 2v2 3v3 where the shatter can do nice aoe dmg on a point but then must go stealth away to regen clones

maybe after the buff IE= mtd but as for now IE >> mtd

i play my condi build in tpvp and hot joins
build
0,4,4,2,4
i just spread my staff clones out side the hold point and they do all the dmg with IE
i handle fine 1v3 so my group could easily turn the fight to our favor even if i died at the end after 2 min
the staff with IE can put 10-15 stack of bleed on 2 enemies with bounce combine with burning its about 2k dps

so if i shattered i would had stayed alone easily targeted and probably used stealth…

so build like 0,4,2,2,6 with mtd will have hard time to handle a point in 1v2 if they shattered (or maybe the torment dmg will be so huge it will push the enemies to play defense)
but in 2v2 etc the condi shatter will be able to put nice aoe dmg on a point and maybe this will be the main difference

if you play condi on zerg fight you should aim to the periphery and catch the mesmer/necros/ele/thieves and push them to play defense and not offense
if you aim for the melee they will cleanse it in no time with shouts etc

i love conditions build dont get me wrong
but the main problem is with the word “shatter”
while shatter you pretty much defenseless as condi build
the torment itself wont do much as it will get cleanse in 2-3 sec so 12 stacks or 5 stacks doesnt matter
thus the gameplay of every mesmer condi build will be dot thus bait the cleanse skills and then shatter meanwhile kite and stay alive

i think if anet would add to mtd also 50% more confusion dmg only from shatter than you could probably burst with shatter your enemy as with 1-2 skills the confusion would be 10k and torment 5k

i guess some of you never fight a d/p thief – you put condi they go stealth and cleanse – hard match if the thief play patiently and take you bite after bite
warrior – if they smart the use shout so you cant put condition for 10 seconds of them while they can harm you so you must back away
ranger condi/power – if using survival of the fittest can cleanse conditions almost constantly
ele d/d/staff – almost immune and have cc and best cleansing abilities – hardly you put 12 stacks on them
mesmet power shatter – if he catch you . you are in trouble my friend

the most easy to hit and put high stacking are – necro/some ranger build/ thief (not d/p spamming ) , dps warrior and all dps build out there

so even with the new update i dont think you will be able to put higher stacking against good player with cleanse

you can watch my channel and see me doing 12-15 stacks but only after i lure them to use cleanse with blocks and AA with staff . so it is not fast shatter build

so as you say probably anet gave the golems the “move” ability as on other mobs and ppl it was correct

so why on npc its state 91 dmg and on golem 91,91 ?

+1
condi shatter as for now and i think for the coming buff wont get close to power shatter
dont think you can burst someone to 10% hp with condi shatter

first you have to lure them to use cleanse – but they wont till 50% hp
then use heal but they wont till 25% hp
so you basically play as condi spec while shatter enemies below 25% hp which can go down even without shatter
so even if using f2+f3 which will be 12 stacks of torment and 9 stacks on confusion
so if the enemy moves and use skills the dps will be
100*12*2=2400 dps +190*9=1710 dmg per skill/dodge
so to do 15k dmg (lets say as power shatter) he needs to move for 5 sec and use 3 skills
so u must use it after all his cleanse are on cd or else you burn your clones and leave you alone without any defense but torch stealth

my point exactly
in real situation you probably wont get the 16 stacks intended

you could see some fight with 10 stacks – so after the update maybe 15 stacks

but player got 1-2 cleanse skills so… you wont get the effect as power shatter ever

take staff instead of sword
better conditions better defense with IE

condi shatter tutorial
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi-5sY32_cg&list=UUcWnMDLv7r7EikeaBypE8tQ

condi shatter had its problems
power shatter is far way better as you can take someone health in 1-2 combos while in condi shatter you are playing dot so you have to play defensively

another problems your illusion dmg get to be cleanse pretty easy so you have to time it right when your enemy used all his cleanse and then shatter. which make you play like pu or any standard condi build
also it doesnt work in zerg play only is 1v1 or 5v5
the torment stacks on smart player is pretty much equal to regular build without maim trait (although thieves will hate that build and can take 15 stacks of torment)

i tried perplexity/torment/krait runes – all are good

here is short clip
as you can see the dmg on golem is doubled even in the combat log 91*4
on the npc its fine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQKZBoFwVo8&feature=youtu.be

anyone has a clue on it pls?

pls put the second one with commentary

i just went to the mist to test something on a golem
i manage to put 8 stacks of torment on it
with 1797 condition dmg the tick should have been 794
but it was doubled 1588
i looked at the combat log and saw 794 but the screen showed me 1588
does the golem consider to move even if it didnt?

and why to torment stacks cap at 8 ?

what am i missing?

nice video but you need to use your skills at the right moment
like mirror images – you use it too early while the enemy got his cleanse rdy to use
save it when the enemy below 50% hp and kite till then
most of the fight you basically kite them and not bursting them with torment like you should have done
if you were fight a warrior you would have noticed it but as you saw it at your last fight against the s/d thief (the veteran tree did nice dmg on him and you finished him with ic #2)

the main problem on the thief class is the stealth. ppl cant handle it
another problem is thief design to solo play style and not group style

so thief has few build to play around (p/p got nice buff but still 1050 range is anet afraid from 1200 range)
but mainly solo
i dont play pve so cant comment on it

in wvw hardly you see ppl looking for thieves . and if for take doolies any calls can do this part. so ? 1v1 and roaming while meeting noobs or good players 1v1 or 1v20 and you die.
in pvp you cant contest (other do it better) so again 1v1 or helping out in 3v2

so we are not UP in solo play style but in group play style we need some love
anet tried venom share – have you heard group calling for venom thief? i didint
ricochet buff – still p/p has the lowest defenses (i have tried trapper p/p but still)
even now group asked for LB rangers – common?!!!!

solutions:
1. take the p/p set or d/d to more group play style – buff it up by dmg or by defenses or group support.
2. sb hits 5 target range 1200
3. ricochet hits 5 target 50% and it crit/bleed/cripple/blind whatever
4. change the double weapon skills d/d and p/p to more group support
5. pistol need more dmg
6. venom – ppl dont want them . so leave it to 1v1 p/d set. change traits
7. traps – arent useable even in some trapper runes build – more gimmicky
8. etc

here is a vid on my trapper build while wvw zerg fight. must say the stealth is nice and much helpful. but still have to get used to place it on the right moment or the right spot to get the full 3 sec
the video is the first time i use it so havent got used to it much

at the beginning thieves builds were more about dmg like 6,6,2,0,0 , but in time and nerf by nerf and other classes buff to conditions, dmg and handle stealth and to gain stealth thieves builds went for more evades like the 2,0,0,6,6

the last patch tried to handle some build diversity but failed as nothing has change

builds stayed the same
2,6,6,0,0
0,6,6,2,0
2,0,0,6,6
0,6,0,4,4

still the p/p set and d/d forgotten
s/d and d/p for power
and the only op build is the p/d condition which only good on 1v1 wvw

so to sum it up
for the average players out there i think yes thieves are up compare to other average players
good thief can handle himself in any situation but mainly good in 1v1 situations
still in group play he is not so much needed (even rangers are now needed)