Guild Wars 2

most of the fight were 2v2, 1v1, 3v3. the last fight with the ele we hel far so both manage to held the point (shatter power cant) and while the ele was focused i res him twice and intrupt the stomp.
the guardian and warrior had condi cleanse

and if i were in the top 1000 and then take a weekend off boom i am out

but i would like to hear why the top 1000 will make my build or play style better beside practice more and more

and yes you said exactly why this build is so strong. constant pressure while the tpvp meta is power one with almost 1 to none condi removal

+1 to op

i give you example from yesterday tpvp i had
group of 4 guildeis looked 1 more so i wispered them and told them i am mesmer with condi mtd build (not power shatter) they took me anyway (which is nice)
they had 1 power mesmer
no ts (so i had to chat before the fight and observe the map more often to see movemet)
i went middle with 2 home 3 middle split. we cap it and i run to far for 1v1
i won and cap it. then 2 enemeis came for 1v2 and i hold it for 1 min while killing 1. then another 2 came and i manage to contest in 1 more minute until the 4th came and i run away.
what happend in those 2 -3 min? that because i manage to do 1v3 for 2 min my team hold easily 2 points for 3 min and we won
what happend after the match – kicked out… i wispered ty and wonder why

answer – you play mesmer and we have one already and you dont use meta build….
i lol- common guys 1v3/4 and instead of asking me how i did it they kicked me… not using meta build

i know meta is for the average ppl who dont open their mind to new skills/ build etc..
sure are great builds which optimom for pvp arena but maybe just maybe another build will arise after new patch to test out…

so i guess only after some OP mesmer player would test it and confirm it so other followers confirms it either . no hope for the meta…

Jekkt.6045:

A mesmer’s job is to quickly burst down people and to remove boons.

Your build doesnt to that (idk for boons).
That’s why it’s unviable for the current meta.

Then again if you just play soloQ or with friends for fun, play whatever you want.

think out of the meta box

i dont replace the current shatter mesmer rather add another game type to the field

would you consider that ?
are conditions valuable at all in tpvp?
are good 1v1 and hold a point longer is valuable?
is good team pressure aoe valuable?
etc…

hi guys

i testing the mtd builds in the tpvp arenas

so far with great success (i am just average player with 40 tpvp plays)

Q- do you think or consider it valuable in the tpvp?.
i know no one using it right now so its hard to say. also not instead of the power shatter mesmer

here is a vid for the mesmer thread
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Mtd-demonstration-2/first#post4570900

hope the community will answer it

for me most of the fight in tpvp we won 80% and my score was the first or second
i got some wispers how i manage to do so much aoe pressure on a point etc..

i know the scepter2 is channle this is why i w8 for it to finished but it seems to last another second before it proc a clone an torment while if i block the first attack and not dodge i will get hit by the others hits

Flufferz.8907:

good play, maybe more will start looking at MtD instead of just saying power is better and not trying it.

Out of curiosity though, why not take 2 in inspiration for Menders Purity then you can use Manta Heal instead of needing resolve

thanks!

i tried mantra heal with 2 cleanse but very easy to interupt it and long cast so i need to be on safe spot or stealth. it was my first choise but maybe its me who dont used to it yet. i would take resolve as it aoe cleanse also and if i see some warrior /necro/engi i need cleanse
and i try to use heal when i have 2-3 clones as it better heals me

i know the meta build is shatter mesmer
but would the community consider the shatter condi (mtd)
as lately i find it very useful in team fights

pros:
great AOE condition pressure on a point
constant pressure even when conditions get cleanse
can handle 1v1 and 1v2 on a point (but not a bunker)
average dps 2k and 4k when bursting
can support with boon stripper
can support with conditions cleanse
good interrupter with daze
good rezzer with f4 while doing dmg

cons:
not a fast killer combo like the power shatter (but both can be on a team as different role)
not much demand for conditions on tpvp (maybe engi but even them prefer power turrets)
not fast travel (no boons)

i like to hear your ideas and have you fight with or against this mtd build in tpvp

wow the more i played it the more its powerful and rewarding
i manage (belive me i dont know how) to contest in 1v2 the far which became 1v3 and point for 2 min against med guard, ranger and lockdown mesmer when i saw the 4 coming i run the hell away
but the play style is so aggressive that i make them easy to target me as i move dodge all the time
i know i am not bunker but more and more 1v2 become more natural (not necessarily to kill them and not all scenarios ) rather give my team the time to take 2 points easily

if you see thief come to you for 2000 range count 1-2-3 and dodge as he go for the steal

ppl dont realize that smoke screen can be very useful
on dp you can get stealth by leaping HS do BS and w8 and again HS without loosing ini much to BP
with p/p and ricochet you can perma blind 3 ppl if you lucky on a point for good amount of time while doing good dmg with unload

you believe i have only 35 games of tpvp (i mainly wvw till i saw that i cant test builds in hot join)
turret engi are good at guarding a point and it took me few times until i manage to handle this build . but as you saw he guard the point for few seconds so… did i do it right? or should i left him and go middle ….

matches i see 2 engis (like the one i am on low hp going stealth – we were 3v2 and they manage to kill us on our point (my team necro and ranger were new probably as i manage to down the ranger twice b4 i went down- doesnt shown in the video) but if we had guardian with stability it would have been different story i guess

i prefer to see skill thief play style running then bad thief die in 5 sec
its true that when thief see your condi pressure they will SR or SS or even break fight
this is wvw which is allowed

eozturk.7205:

messiah.1908:

in 20v20 gvg (depends on the numbers) usually 1 thief and 1 mesmer both periphery harrassment

generally focus party setup is 2 thieves, 1 mesmer 1 d/d ele and random ( I saw ranger, engineer or another mesmer) depends on the guild mostly (4-5 players in total). also, having less number of players in your focus party compared to the opposing team may yield to your focus party get focus and get downed at start even before harassing their periphery,which may ruin everything at that round. imo, I suggest roam with your focus party after raids so you will get some synergy and whisper list in ts, really helps a lot (better communication without interrupting the driver)

what i know from the gvg arenas are in 20 man group
6 warrior
6 guardian
3 staff ele
3 necros
1 thief
1 mesmer

if 25 man then add 1 player more from the top

saw it on the other thread
nicely done but i play more agressive with mtd
i want thieves to see me so i can use block and shatter on then for 10 stacks of torment and confusion then they just SR away or die

s/d thieves are medium counter to it

Mogar.9216:

Zadarh.1932:

Here’s a 4 minute “How to” video of a mesmer fighting 2 thieves!

http://youtu.be/4ECjt_eiq-g

Feel free to ask/pm me any questions, I am happy to help !

lol that’s the world’s 2 worst thief ever. both of them just shot you with short bow the whole time . The best playing out of them was 1 guy who tried 22222 you . I have often beat bad thieves like that 2-3 at a time it means nothing at all.

lol +1 i think you miss one 2 the thief was pressing
spamming 22222 cry out loud for scepter block and torment stacking with MI shatter

but again its 1v2 so also nice done with condi dmg
but you abuse your stealth too much i think

the best steal thief can get are from ranger – group play – water field for 10 sec and blast it with sb
from mesmer is purly for defense with some regen stability (i am sure its 5 sec and not 10)

dont forget thief are squishy as hell, need stealth and evades to stay alive so the big benefit are eagis (just AA) sability (save you stun/daze)
most mesmer will use stealth either so… i dont get why it consider op
if the guardian or ele or warrior will have it every 20 sec then yes – op

here is my second vid in team arena mostly

hope you like it as i did (and even some of the players i played with and against)

i hope more ppl will make vids with mtd so the community will learn it better

(lettuce – this thread is not for you you wont like it)

in 20v20 gvg (depends on the numbers) usually 1 thief and 1 mesmer both periphery harrassment

fluxit.8247:

messiah.1908:

against ele mtd is so easy
usually they need to spam skills to heal themselves which proc confusion, they must move then proc torment doubled dmg. i dont care about their boons (regen yes) as condi ignore armor and i dont deal direct dmg.
the staff bunker ele can hold a point nice but will die eventually if no one will help him

and i agree more to the said above that shatter power with boon removal is very different style than mtd shatter (constant aoe condi pressure versus i combo hit and run)

I agree with you messiah, but here’s my reasoning behind it. I run 4/4/0/0/6 because I find the extra condition duration is enough to give you an extra tick. With rabid gear and nightmare runes this can tick from the base damage of 677/s to 1000-2000 plus damage depending on a lot of variables (might, whether your target is moving or not, the number of stacks on the target, the gear you’re using).

The master domination trait gives you two real options to take. You can choose Cleansing Conflagration to remove 1 condition per torch skill use and reduce the cool down on torch skills or you can take Shattered Concentration. Both are viable.

Like you said, condition damage ignores toughness, and protection but think about this: you can either choose to fight a warrior with 12 stacks of might, fury, and stability…or you can choose to fight a warrior with no boons. Removing boons doesn’t increase your damage but at least it’ll reduce their’s. :P

maybe its me or my playstyle but i noticed that if i clear warrior/guardian boons they start to play more defensively. thus less movement and less skills uses.
i want them to burst me so i can proc torment and confusion i want them to run after me for the double dmg from torment.
i agree that 15% condi duration from nightmare+20% for trait is nice in pvp arena which add around 2 seconds tick for torment and confusion
the torch cleanse is not useable with the condi shatter as you use you torch offensively and not defensively (i want confusion and blind and bruning on the enemey and not saving it for the condi cleanse)

this is why i love the last update as it opens up 4 builds for us to use all around mtd (while power shatter basically has 1 build)
now i have to w8 and see if the community will ambress it and say in tpvp we see it as valuable. so far i use in in tpvp in great success (80% of the time with random players i win and i am lead the score)

trooper.2650:

Hi guys. Just throwing out this build to you.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQRArf7KlkntMNOohbtRwNmTqGU/jnKZA/C-TJRAABAcSAYa/hofCAlVGAA

I left blank whatever traits/utility you may choose.
A neat 2k condi damage will frighten anyone (I had people whispering me my conditions were scary ). It could also be further improved by adding the corruption on kill sigil but I dislike it and prefered the bursting one.
It’s kind of an unconventional build since it uses scepter in both weapon sets and thus it requires you to spend a bit of time to adapt. Believe me.. it’s a killer of a build.

However, I agree with whoever is supporting the DD trait: having enemies killing your clones will dismantle any MtD unless you pick DD. Personally I prefer having crippling dissipations too and thus my favourite build so far is 2/4/2/0/6.

Saying that, I believe standard shatter is still superior and thus I don’t see myself using MtD on a regular basis.

i like you idea with nice 2k condi dmg but i guess you using it as roamer role mainly
the staff is so nice aoe on a point with daze (can interupt aoe the stomp)
you got pistol which can stack nice 3-5 bleeding.
the main difference i think is you “like” more your illusion than me
i create/spam them and shatter. the pistol illsion can be important to shatter … but this is me
you miss #2 on staff which is life saver and illusion #3 can do nice 1.5k direct dmg also chaos shiled proc more conditions when you hit to cover your torment and confusion

but yes if you surprise someone or 1v1 you can take him fast
but i like more nighmare runes with the fear (interupt the initial burst) also having 15% condi duration (which helpful with confusion and bleed mainly)

Fay.2357:

fluxit.8247:

Surely taking away all those warrior might stacks, stability protection, etc isnt bad for holding a point. And whats an eli without its boon. Or a turret engi for that matter. I understand what youre saying though, butvi dont think its on the bottom of the so called list. Your ability to strip boons, be it with power or condi shatter can be vital at the right moment. This is of course in a team fight

Even not in a team fight. An ele fully booned up is an unstoppable beast. With boon strip on shatter they just go out with a whimper. If you don’t take shattered concentration, you have essentially 0 access to boon strip, and that means you die against anything that stacks boons if they’re not bad.

against ele mtd is so easy
usually they need to spam skills to heal themselves which proc confusion, they must move then proc torment doubled dmg. i dont care about their boons (regen yes) as condi ignore armor and i dont deal direct dmg.
the staff bunker ele can hold a point nice but will die eventually if no one will help him

and i agree more to the said above that shatter power with boon removal is very different style than mtd shatter (constant aoe condi pressure versus i combo hit and run)

fluxit.8247:

4/4/0/0/6 is still my favorite option. The boon removal is great against elis, warriors, guards, engis and thieves who use plasma. Works great with carrion gear and sword for the extra damage but i still prefer rabid. The extra toughness allows you to take a few hits/make a few mistakes.

i am also undecided between 4,4,0,0,6 with boon removal as group support or
x,4,2,x,6 – 2 point can go where you like
i tried few roles in team arena
home keeper – usually they send thief/mesmer/ranger to cap it and while i can sit on the point they cant so 4,4,0,06 wont help me much with boon removal (only regen is the boon you want to remove). so i used 0,4,4,0,6 . if they send 2 i will call for backup but i can hold for 10-30 sec b4 the point is uncontested (engi are hard counter to point holder)
if i am far capping (usually not alone and depend on the enemy split) 4,4,0,0,6 may be more helpful but if its 1v1 usually i prefer 0,4,4,0,6 or if massive codni pressure its 0,4,2,2,6 for more cleanse on heal.

i usually see the guardians and warrior put back their boons in no time while i want to save my shatters to the right time thus make me think what more useful as a role
if i am just boon removal wouldnt it be more useful to go power shatter as hit and run?

here is a utility build for your team request
you are not here for the dmg rather the support with glamour and blind
the dmg is done after you use your glamour skills and just using gs
keep distance and eye for the enemy thief

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQJARWlknpUtFrxVNMrRSqxcyjSCVbRyHCokf0NA-T1BFwACuCAJV+xS9n06C4rEs1+DAeEAkBgZMA-w

use moa on key target like necro/ele/thief while your team can burst them as they are easy kill
use GS5 when you see no stability on your enemy and push him away from his group

or go 0,4,0,4,6 semi shatter periphery take blink instead of feedback

if your team got 2-3 necros you dont need null field so go shatter 4,4,0,0,6

long time i havent doe gvg (due to lack of guilds)
the mesmer back then role with semi zerk null viel fileds and tried to harass the ele or thief

after the last change thief became more useable with s/d and recentlry venom share (i heard i guild using in effectively) so mesmer sayed as viel bot trying to add some dmg when needed with his GS and staff

pu – is not good with the last changes as it too slow conditions stacking

i wish i could test the mtd build as it can shut down ele even if it get cleanse the ele must use all his cleasne so he will be vulnerable to your team attacks
also can shut down any periphery while the mesmer is not so vulnerable like the zerk one (low hp low armor) also the shatter are aoe so stacked periphery will get the best shutdown conditions torment( movement) confusion (skill use)

but probably all will say go shatter power gs+staff

d/p thieves – when he use bp use gap closer and gs5 to push him back from stealth. then just shatter or he will just run with ss or sr
s/d thieves – more harder and will put pressure on you with AA so use diversion to disrupt thier rotation time your GS5 when he use sword#3 to drain ini from him.
staff works better then sword with them as immobilize dont work on these guys
d/d – can be harder as they cnd on your clones so make sure to shatter always on a perfect timing. ut if they are patient with cnd and bs on you try to use confusion on them to panic them a bit
for me they are harder if i met good ones or if they jump on me unaware

the basic 4,4,0,0,6 shatter working with staff and gs

Lettuce.2945:

Fay.2357:

Lettuce.2945:

Fay.2357:

Lettuce.2945:

Dhampyr.2104:

Lettuce.2945:

Yes there is a point. It’s a tutorial video. But the creator does not do what he is “teaching us to do”. So that is quite funny itself. Get it? Ok. Cool. Glad I helped you understand that simple notion.

You’re still adding nothing to the discussion, not that I’m particularly surprised. Yawn. Trolls are so boring and predictable.

Regarding the OP – what sigils are folks finding best? I’ve tried tormenting, but the single torment stack is a bit lackluster at best. Bursting seems nice, and obviously energy is always a plus for any shatter build. Any others working nicely for folks?

And what exactly is there to contribute? This is such an aids/crutch build for players who need the assist in pvp. It’s self explanatory and it’s as simple as just breathing. It’s really amusing to watch you guys discuss the build when the build itself, is what carries the player. Almost as bad as turret engis. Even more funnier to beat them when they try to get carried by the build.

Alternatively…what? Try to brute force your way through matches using a worse build so you can feel better about yourself? I can kill people with no offhand and half my traits, does that mean that using a full build is skill less and noob?

No, of course not. Using anything but the most effective build in any situation is a mistake or a conscientious choice for some reason that isn’t maximum effectiveness. The more a build works for you the larger the head-start is before you start comparing skill to skill. A highly effective build amplifies the effect of a skilled player, allowing them to play tremendously strong where an ineffective build has the opposite effect of dampening the way skill shows through.

This build is effective. Play it with skill and it becomes even more so. PU condie is a similar case. Just because the op appears to be semi-incompetent with the build has absolutely no bearing on how well it can be played.

Can kill with half your traits and main hand weapon with no offhand Claims it’s not a skill-less build or a crutch type build. Uh. Ok. Funny guy. You answered yourself here. Thanks for reinforcing my point. Have a nice day.

Well, you significantly misinterpreted that, along with missing the point entirely though. Not a big deal, you just have a drastically different view of how to play the game than I do.

You play the game judging other people based on the builds they play, and then forcing yourself into certain playstyles in order to feel superior.

I play the game to have fun. Having fun has 2 major components for me: Winning and causing people to rage at me, my class, and my build. Therefor, I play the builds that win the most and produce the most raging PMs so that I can sit back and bask in the schadenfreude of a job well done.

Doubt you would beat me. But again, it’s the build that’s cheese. It literally allows bad players to force top tier players into trying when they naturally wouldn’t on a different spec. That’s why this build is aids. It has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with your player skills. It’s a carry. But even with this “carry”, doubt you could beat me.

so basically you are saying every condition build in this game is cheese build
if pu was cheese, p/d thief is cheese, condi endi is cheese, ele signet is cheese, s/s warrior is cheese, necro is cheese, guardian( you can go condi but do nothing- so no cheese)

so 50% of this game is cheese ?!

so far i have been kill all ele staff/ sc/f d/d or they run so easy just by confusion to kill them as they spam like crazy skills to stay alive
this is the reason i like DD trait as even if the clones killed they create conditions and 6 bleed stacks and weakness and other condition cover is nice on them

about player skills – pls show me how you can put 20-25 torment stacks with a combo- pls!
pls show me when to shatter, or bait the shatter
pls show me yours 1v2 or 1v3 on a point in tpvp

all i read from you is bla bla bla bla and see nothing

so far i gain respect from other enemies which amazed by the torment and confusion stacks in 1v1 mainly
so far the hard counter for me is shatter power mesmer
and i never saw yet any rage or qq from this build concept

so far this build is strong in pvp area
the main part of it is not your abilities to shatter in the right moment rather the enemy using only 1 cleanse
so 1v1 any zerk build is easy to kill but in the tpvp with bunker guards or ele your conditions pressure is noticeable and you push them off the point. while i think all other classes dont (the meta is more power one for them)

but i didnt find the right role in the tpvp
is it solo far/home cap or group middle?
any exp from others?

Dhampyr.2104:

Lettuce.2945:

Yes there is a point. It’s a tutorial video. But the creator does not do what he is “teaching us to do”. So that is quite funny itself. Get it? Ok. Cool. Glad I helped you understand that simple notion.

You’re still adding nothing to the discussion, not that I’m particularly surprised. Yawn. Trolls are so boring and predictable.

Regarding the OP – what sigils are folks finding best? I’ve tried tormenting, but the single torment stack is a bit lackluster at best. Bursting seems nice, and obviously energy is always a plus for any shatter build. Any others working nicely for folks?

i use geomancy and energy – more clone and bleed stacks aoe in group play
1v1 i change 1 earth to doom for poison stacking

Lettuce.2945:

Dhampyr.2104:

Lettuce.2945:

Every AA skill does direct damage. But I guess you didn’t know that. It’s just…*whispers* low damage. Which isn’t enough to steal kill from Svanir. A burst spec will 95% of the time get the kill off chieftain or svanir. You, my friend, are not burst.

Pretty sure the OP is looking to add tips on using MtD and opening it up to the community, which I think is a good idea and I’m enjoying the productive discussion in this thread.

I’m not entirely sure what positive discussion you’re bringing to this thread regarding MtD usage. I must be missing something, because your posts seem alot like trolling – and I’m sure you’re not trolling and there’s a point to your posts, right?

Yes there is a point. It’s a tutorial video. But the creator does not do what he is “teaching us to do”. So that is quite funny itself. Get it? Ok. Cool. Glad I helped you understand that simple notion.

i am so sry you dont know how to read
mtd demonstration (not mesmer tutorials)
if you want short tutorials explanation – here it is

how to fight against shout warrior and ele 1v2(at the end) and how to bait the shatter moment, how to make distance to make the warrior move for double dmg, how to make clones and use stealth to get few sec for you MI cd, stomp with decoy, and easy kill the ele in 1v1 as he need to spam skills and move always
so 1 mistakes (even with staff +blink the warrior rally from npc)

tpvp
turret engi – demonstration of condi pressure – 4 bleed, 4 confusion, burning and 6 torment and cover conditions
creating clones to get ready use f4 on ranger stomp
2v2 to slowly take them both with aoe shatter versus guardian and turret engi . i target the guard to bait the cleanse early then finish with burning and 6 torment and 3 bleeding
diamond ele – how to get the block torment with aoe and followed by 11 stacks of torment
engi (the part you dont like) – i am asura – small while the garden leaves are higher than me. most know it by now . i saw the engi use his bomb and use it on his face to get the 5 stacks of torment
guardian on treb – here i would be ok if you mention “why you didnt use mi for seconds shatter to finish him” – 1 mistake as i thought he had more cleanse but he run. but you could see him running after 7 conditions on him then finished with 8 torment, 6 confusion, burning, 6 bleed – 2k confusion, 1.5k torment, 700 burning, 700 bleed=5k dmg (average was 3k dps)

next tpvp
although the guardian was outnumbered – the conditions stacks on him…
pressure turret engi after he blast his turrets – 10 torment 9 confusion, burning
ranger – 2 shatters and chaos storm on the point… you get the point
1v1 on point versus guardian – block on his AA on his face , FEAR, 17 STACKS OF TORMENT, 7 confusion, and cover conditions – he melted
then followed by 2v2 (i dont know why the s/d thief didnt stomp and just AA )
tried 1v2 on point dd ele and the guardian – hard so back away. after i saw the point uncontested for few sec
i decide to steal the kill but the ele came when i was low. but i saw the thief coming
he use his SB . the ele was down i had 4 stacks of torment on svanir, 4 bleed, burning all aoe and 2 hitting svanir is 100% more chance the get the steal kill then just 1 hitting him (my dmg was 400+700+300+100 while the thief i guess 1.5k with AA sb)
you could say why stand near svanir while he bursting – which got me down!
block on aoe guardian and shatter- easy kill
2v2 on far point to buy some time – f4 to res the thief and contesting . the thief died again and i blow all my utilities and mistake with heal twice so i knew i would be dead but we got 2 points for some time so i didnt care much but did down the ele.
wvw zerging – just target the periphery nothing special

hope it helps you

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Guys! Mirror of Anguish is the thing, I seen nobody talking about it yet !

why?
reflect stun/daze every 60 sec?
maybe good against turret engi but if you dodge good you dont need it

ok after testing it – its nice if you use rune of nightmare- the rune will proc in their burst. after if they try to stun you they get it back giving you time to proc your condi pressure and ticking . manage to take even power shatter twice

MailMail.6534:

0,4,0,4,6 – again can go vigor support and glamour line as you mention but feels more 1v1

There is nothing 1v1 oriented about Null Field, Portal and Vigorous Revelation. Those are quintessential team support traits/utilities and are very helpful in team fights.

Also, before I took vigorous revelation, I was using the scepter CD, which also buffs condition dmg. It was good, but I haven’t noticed much of a difference in playstyle outside being able to bait people with Confusing Images more often.

edit: He must be talking about the build I’m proposing. With mine, you get less damage but more support in the mid-fights.

i meant feels not because of the utilities you take rather as the mtd build is not like the shatter power gorilla play style hit and run (portal) as more DOT

love to see some more vids using other builds

Nazer.7301:

4/4/0/0/6 is not less damage, you get 20% condi duration and 200 power. Your opponents have no boons, there is that.

i rephrase – less condition stacking . 20% duration is nice 6 sec become 7 sec
need to create clones in the face and shatter as aoe kills them fast

MailMail.6534:

Speaking of that, how is it going with all those people who play with Shatter Conditions instead? 4/4/0/0/6 is probably the “go-to” Maim build I’m assuming. How does that match up against 0/4/0/4/6 or even 0/4/2/2/6?

4,4,0,0,6 – more supporter in middle team but less dmg
0,4,0,4,6 – again can go vigor support and glamour line as you mention but feels more 1v1
0,4,2,2,6 – more solo home pointer but can support nicely with pressure aoe conditions stacking to the team
2,4,2,0,6 – best condi staking with cripple (works great versus the s/d thief)
0,6,x,x,6 – trying it now with sword pistol for more melee pressure (more wvw oriented)

either way mtd gives much more options to the group and to the mesmer

i love to see in 1v2 (which i try to handle now in far point to give my team more chance to cap) and 80% i can take 1 down (cant stomp yet) and the other one is still pressured with some condi aoe

with DD trait ppl dont know what to do – to kill the clones or not to kill – as both punishing

MailMail.6534:

I haven’t been in many situations where I needed more than 1 condi clear except in bunker Mantra builds. Besides, 2 conditions removed every 20 seconds versus 5 removed AOE (plus boon stripping) every 32 seconds isn’t a horrible trade-off for Mender’s.

mantra is 4 every 20 sec (can be traited to 16) aoe and null is 5 every 32 sec aoe ticking also remove boons

so its really depends on your role in the team
as in most tpvp team its the power meta and not condi you can go point holder like home
if i see chance for group condi i would take null and go with the team to middle and do more support pressure
DD trait give me the edge to play both shatter or clones and buy me some time when my enemy try to find me especially with staff clones

MailMail.6534:

messiah.1908:

i dont know guys
after testing all variation build i still think the 0,4,2,2,6 is much better as clone will die before explosion so the DD trait is valuable so stack conditions and also helps is bait your enemy to use cleanse early
the 0,4,0,4,6 build just offer 200 more condi dmg and cd on scepter which is only 1 sec on block which is the most important but you loosing bleed, vulnerability and weakness
and maybe the 4,4,0,0,6 with cripple and boon stripper but make you to use mantra for cleanse

Interesting. I’ve been going into Inspiration not for the Mender’s but for Glamour Mastery. Portal on a 72s CD is insanely good. Null Field is all the condi clear I need and serves dual purposes.

I was using the Scepter CD for the extra 2 seconds on block, but I’ve since switched to Vigorous Revelation. It gives me near 100% vigor upkeep, which helps me to constantly have clones out via dodging. The constant shattering keeps my team invigorated as well.

I’m sure DD is effective for when your clones are killed. However, this hasn’t really been a problem with me due to the toughness in the build. They’re still paper weights, but these clones definitely can take an additional hit more than zerker clones. Moreover, I usually shatter in melee range during team fights. I stay bit more ranged in 1v1s and 2v2s.

correct is some cases 0,4,0,4,6 works better but guardian with his aoe and engi or ele will kill you clones before you manage to shatter them
you might get MI but the clones from dodge will die faster mostly when i am with staff
so in 1v1 it might be better but the DD is much helpful in almost any situation especially group fights when your shatter on cd and you got some clones up
and i use energy sigil so no need for perma vigor

Lettuce.2945:

The most amusing part of your video is that you are giving instructions on how to properly play it, but, the ironic thing is…You didn’t do anything you said in the instructions lol. Like the staff 2 and blink forward finisher, and you seem really helluva confused on how to stomp a guard properly. And using terrain to hide block attack. I lol’ed so hard at that particular moment. It was clearly pure coincidence. And “I’ll die, but rally off Svanir because I saw thief. And I will steal kill”. Everyone knows that condis can’t steal Svanir kill, so the thief did the work and you just got lucky. You didn’t see the thief.

And you aren’t even using your shatters properly as well. See. This is why I hate condi mesmers and condi thieves. It gives players an illusion that they are half decent. It’s like playing with gameshark.

regarding stomp i learn from my mistakes this is why i do videos
and i do use terrain and i did saw the thief coming or else i would withdraw and
and clearly you dont know condi mesmer as AA do direct dmg (i guess you didnt know)
i guess if you think ppl cant you surely cant. so learn to watch the map while fighting and watch your allies locations
but i glad it make you laugh but pls try to save it to private msg as i try to create open discussion here on mtd

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Tbh, using Mtd just as you in your video as of now. I think it has a far point assaulter role since it rekts on 1v1.

i dont have speed and thief can do it better and faster and also power shatter

dont you think?

how do you think the mtd should work in team arena
which role this mesmer has ?

it can hold nice point 1v1 (turret engi are hard counter for me and zerk mesmer)
it can support with condi pressure on a point
it can support with boon strip if traited (when needed)

what are your ideas?

Ansau.7326:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Ansau.7326:

Impossible against turret engis, and power shatters do better the role than condi shatter.

Wait, what? You’re having trouble against turrent engies with MtD? You can’t kill the turrets, I get. But the Engie is just gagging to be eaten alive by your condi setup. Gagging!

If the engi doesn’t move from the turrets, you pretty much can’t do anything. Be on melee and let the turrets kill you. Be on range and be much more predictable, with clone running. I find much more easier in 1vs1 with power shatter…

agree engi doesnt move from the point around his turrets and its hard to shatter from range as you clones die sooner . i can pressure him to 25% hp but he would also and he got more hp to play with and regen

i dont know guys
after testing all variation build i still think the 0,4,2,2,6 is much better as clone will die before explosion so the DD trait is valuable so stack conditions and also helps is bait your enemy to use cleanse early
the 0,4,0,4,6 build just offer 200 more condi dmg and cd on scepter which is only 1 sec on block which is the most important but you loosing bleed, vulnerability and weakness
and maybe the 4,4,0,0,6 with cripple and boon stripper but make you to use mantra for cleanse

here is my vid exp from today (tpvp)
it start with 2v2 wvw versus shout hammer warrior and d/d ele – lots of heal and cleanse
tpvp (forgot to switch ie to ii)
short zerg fight periphery counter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-47Q8qaklU&feature=youtu.be

so after seen some videos posted here its seems we all agree that the mesmer community needs to adpat for the new concept of mtd and conditions burst

its a open post for everyone to say, gives tips and ideas etc

the basic is that now mesmer has a nice aoe conditions dmg but (big BUT) has to work it in a way to fully utiliez it in the right way
it seems that ppl forget its aoe

scepter2 – it blocks and create clones and proc 5 stacks of torment which is useable every 8 sec (traited can be lower every 6 sec)
how to use it?
1. look for aoe and use it on it – necro/ ele/ thief poison filed/ engi etc – its 99% proc
2. use it on the face of your enemy – so he wont see the animation
3. use it when enemy AA or use burst skills like warrior / ranger /thief etc
4. Use Scepter #3 to bait dodge then break the channel and use the block. (very effective against enemies with on-dodge attacks).
5. Use Scepter #3 with chaos armor/ or any aura active to make enemies harder to see your block animation.

you will notice that even with 5 stacks your enemy will use cleanse/break the fight/ go stealth etc . but you want him to use cleanse skills

torch#5 – nice 3 stacks of confusion – again to bait cleanse or stack it

when to shatter – basicaly always. i like to bait my enemy to use cleanse as mention above and to creat clones with scepter while AA or dodge
you have to get use your timeing of creating clones (look for endurance/ skills cd) to get your best shatter combo

here is some basic combos

1.blink-> dodge-> mi-> shatter – 3 clones – good for aoe oppener
2. torch4-> torch5-> dodge -> shatter – 2 clones
3.staff 2->staff 3 -> dodge ->shatter- 2 clones
with some AA inbetween you will have more clones and with more dodges again more clones and with block scepter#2 more clones

4. Scepter block —> Mirror Images —> CoF shatter (3 clones)
5. While stunned, Mirror Images —> Staff #2 retreat out of melee range --> CoF shatter (3 clones)
6. Chaos Armor —> Mirror Images —> Staff #2 retreat —> CoF shatter --> Staff #3 iWarlock. (3 clones + 1 phantasm)

on average player i can get 12-15 stacks of torment with 10-12 confusion with some more cover condi like bleed, burning etc

here is a short video
2v2 wvw
tpvp 2 fights
short wvw zerg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-47Q8qaklU&feature=youtu.be
build used 0,4,2,2,6

thanks to:
keenlam.4753

i stopped after 6 min
i think the main problem is ppl didnt get it how the mtd works and when it needed
but this is understandable as by now mesmer never had nice aoe condi pressure so ppl got used to the pu playstyle and the new IE staff clones that can also do nice pressure by themselves

i think after more few weeks we will see more useable playstyle
i am trying to work on tutorial for both 1v1 , 1v2 , small and big groups

even with perplexity the shatter i do with MI procs more confusion than the daze with the runes

as for now i am trying to find duels and 1v2 and only find 1vzerg or 1v5 with meta build or p/d thieves – i cant beat them

but i can cleanse camps much much faster then ever

Ross Biddle.2367:

So I decided to dive into WvW with maim. Here’s a “first fight” vid. Loving goign back to my old, first, condi shatter build/playstyle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCE19s_kQWE

sry to say that i only saw 5 stacks of torment in average which mainly comes from scepter#2
you should aim for 12 stacks so take MI instead of mantra daze

the problem is in the commanders and anet
warriors and guardians are a must for melee train
ele for water field and stun field
necro for aoe dmg
mesmer for viel bot
all other class for zerg are optional

some commander start to see the effectiveness in havoc squad like LB ranger, d/p thieves and give them freedom just kill fast the backline
engi can support in so many ways maybe not strong enough but still they can

so funny

i play thief its hard to win versus shatter mesmer
and i play mesmer and its hard to win against s/d thief

i notice that either way if i lay down the first burst then 80% of the time i win (depends if the enemy run away and refresh the fight)