Guild Wars 2

Fay.2357:

messiah.1908:

@FAY – read i what i wrote first

No, you read what I wrote. You just keep repeating the same wrong and blatantly misleading opinions over and over with no logic, reasoning, or evidence to support them, as if saying them again will make them more true.

messiah.1908:

“passive playstyle can be both the player and the build used
so an aggressive player with passive build can be seen.”
your statement are mainly for the player playstyle while i am talking the build playstyle

Grossly wrong statements like this. The build playstyle? I’ve already explained how builds don’t have playstyles. Those are two separate ideas that don’t clash. You keep going on about how builds are passive, and that’s just incredibly misleading and wrong. Builds aren’t passive, players are passive.

messiah.1908:

also lockdown build are bait playstyle and not passive as i said above

And once again you completely ignore everything I said and mindlessly repeat incorrect assertions. Lockdown builds are builds, that’s all. You can choose to play them however you want; passive, aggressive, passive aggressive, whatever.

You’re stuck in this ridiculous mindset of ‘my build completely and totally defines the way I play, and neither myself nor anyone else may ever deviate from the preconceived notions that I have about these builds’. It’s almost comical really.

messiah.1908:

so considering what you said above every build in the game consider aggressive

No, I said that every build in the game is simply a build, and is considered neither passive nor aggressive.

messiah.1908:

thus i think you mean the player play style which can be aggressive which is true

I have literally said this exact thing multiple times in every post I’ve made. How are you just getting it now? Playstyles are aggressive or passive, not builds.

messiah.1908:

as it become boring with no videos to demonstrate i will say no more

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messiah.1908:

p.s
so far almost every pu mesmer i see in wvw just use veil decoy torch4 too much
while if i play aggressive they just abuse stealth (even power pu sometimes)

And almost every shatter Mesmer I see in wvw bashes themselves against my torment and dies in less than 15 seconds. Look, I can anecdote too!

sry to disagree with you as you haven brought nothing to support your ideas

you say if i take sword over scepter which create different skills build you play the same aggressive or passive while they are both giving you different abilities

scepter use more block – bait the attack so more passive as you wait
sword – more aggressive to immobilize the player for burst

you say bunker guardian build can play his build like a med zerk guardian – NO!

i see you dont agree just look in youtube for passive/ aggressive builds and you find the differences between them as any game has them

Clownmug.8357:

Video examples of pu condi played aggresively:

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheWingIsPurple

i know this vids and like them all

but see how many tips are given on shatter versus condi
each move done kittenter is important rather as condi just put your illusion mage pistol while using torch stealth and use sword to secure burning poison and go stealth and all over again
you hardly use your f1-3 and AA as condi as the build dont need it

etc….

thus its true – you play aggressively as a player (and good one) (mainly because you use sword and not staff ) but the build is passive one

StickerHappy.8052:

Kaamau.5341:

Eh. I destroy on Shatter condi faster then I ever could with PU condi. Since the patch I’m yet to lose a 1 v 1 with shatter condi against even the best players. Only chance of going down is 1 v 2 or more, 1 v 1 is a no-contest, they signed their death warrant. But it does have its limit and cant sustain on the same number of people as PU condi. But it can win 1 v 3 if you play at the top of your game, but its a lot of pressure to handle.

I would like to test your unbeaten statement with the build. Add me Ingame.

shatter condi is great build which ppl in tpvp hardly used to it
1v1 is harder if the enemy prepare for it

like s/d have better chance to kill you
also d/p if abuse stealth and bs
also power shatter very hard to kill
all other build are more easy to handle especially the mata build in the tpvp as they dont handle codni pressure well

warrior hambow has 1 skills which helps him berserker stance. so w8 10 sec and burst
ranger – no match. even condi ones but can be harder
d/d ele – has nice condi cleanse but your pressure can kill them as they need to spam skills and move to stay alive so confusion and torment are your best friend
s/f ele – can be harder if he catch you with his huge burst so just block
turret engi – are great guarding a point but out of it they just melting
condi engi – fair fight but condi kill them fast
guardian – if you trait right 4,4,0,0,6 they will have no boons and die
med guard – can be hard thus you need to use more clones less shatter so they wont burst you easily

this is my experience

in wvw much easier and my condi dmg is +2k with duration of 40%-80% while in tpvp its 1.5k and 15%-35% duration

@FAY – read i what i wrote first
“passive playstyle can be both the player and the build used
so an aggressive player with passive build can be seen.”
your statement are mainly for the player playstyle while i am talking the build playstyle
so you say tomato i say tometo

also lockdown build are bait playstyle and not passive as i said above

so considering what you said above every build in the game consider aggressive which is wrong thus i think you mean the player play style which can be aggressive which is true

as it become boring with no videos to demonstrate i will say no more

p.s
so far almost every pu mesmer i see in wvw just use veil decoy torch4 too much
while if i play aggressive they just abuse stealth (even power pu sometimes)

Carighan.6758:

messiah.1908:

so yes pu is not aggerssive play style as you discribe it

• Use all 10 buttons, at least 5 of which are attacks = aggressive.
• Use all 10 buttons, at least 5 of which are attacks = not aggressive?

I fail to see where you make the distinction.

keenlam.4753:

Lol can we just agree at least PU build won’t be played as aggressively as sh@tter build?

Again, I fail to see the difference in play.
Now if you mean that a power shatter built can die faster, then yes, usually it can. But two questions:

• Would a Nomad-equipped Power Shatter build not last significantly longer than a Sinister-equipped PU Condi build?
• What’s the downside of having more defense if the situation is one where better survival directly translates into easier wins? As in, 1v1. I know it means you take longer to kill, but assuming you’re really just out for 1v1 combat that hardly matters since you win more reliably.

pushing your buttons doesnt make you to play aggressive or passive
passive playstyle can be both the player and the build used
so an aggressive player with passive build can be seen.

so if you have more defense in your skill/utilities bar is force you to play more passive as those skills dont do dmg
if you have more control skills (like cc) it force you to a more bait playstyle eg to bait your enemy for the right moment to strike
if you have more dmg skills it force you to play more aggressive playstyle for faster kill

pu as a build used gives you the ability not dying easily and forgivable to mistakes and easy to execute while doing dmg slower than any other builds . thus make it an effective build for roaming (compare p/d condi to s/d power build as thief)

shatter builds are less forgivable as any mistakes you do can cost you your life which make you to fight harder and sometimes over commit to secure the kill , they are high risk high reward fast phase

to beat a pu build usually the enemy use an aggressive playstyle to bait the pu to focus more on defense and escape utilities

hope it make sense now

is the dmg font larger ?

i play memser and thief in tpvp and wvw

i can say as thief memser gives me hard time and as mesmer thief gives me hard time

as mesmer a s/d thief should win as he can go in and out evading and dodging almost everything while taking bite after bite of my health (sure he cant stand on point)
as thief i try to abuse stealth for the right moment to burst or daze and abusing #2 in and out and SR when needed and most of the time SB to kill illusions

Calliope.8675:

It’s only cheese if you don’t know how to kill it, which makes the other player an idiot for not knowing their own class better. Yes, I will concede that PU is an easy build to use, but it doesn’t make you “good” at it if you use it poorly. And, as you have so graciously pointed out, you used PU a long time ago, which renders your knowledge on this topic outdated. Things have changed over the last two years and quite a lot. PU is different, still a strong build, but different none-the-less.

Killing another class requires two things: knowledge of your class plus knowledge of the class you are facing. As pointed out earlier, you can’t just pop out some clones and go afk with PU. Yes, you can play aggressively with Counter. It has a 15 second cool down, which is another 5 stacks of torment. Yes, a good PU will use their shatters more. Maybe not F1, but definitely the rest. It’s not about powering down your opponent, but wearing them down with conditions. Confusion is an immensely powerful condition that often gets little notice. Confusing Images+Phantasmal Mage+F2 could very well equal up to 10 or 11 stacks of confusion. That is more than enough to kill someone. Oh, and I would use F1 to finish off an opponent. A new player to PU may not use shatters right a way, but a veteran player would. Mesmers are all about timing.

maybe i am bit missunderstood regarding my pov on passiv and aggressive

the fact that i have played pu since 2 years ago (which hardly the build got change rather nerf with pu and DD trait) makes me more knowledgeable on it

for me to be aggressive it means that i can put my enemy on defense most of the time till he dies like power shatter – go stealth use izerk sword leap and BOOM 2 shatter which kill or get your enemy on 10% hp so he must go defense
same with condi shatter he can start like pu (most enemy wont know what r u so it give you adventage)
then at the right moment you shatter 3 times making your enemy go defense

pu build put you most of the time on defense as it require you to lure the enemy to kill your clones for DD trait while you make some more and or use your own skills like scepter 2+3 and torch 5 to put 8 confusion and 5 torment at the right time usually you hit them from stealth after you use torch 4
but again your enemy must attack you to proc confusion so you must play defense

so the more you defense the more dmg you’re doing

condi shatter with 3 shatter time right can do 15 confusion and 15-20 torment with lower armor and no aegis and protection must play more agrressive as he cant stand if the enemy pressure with thier burst (not like pu can)

again i dont say pu is not effective just its slower, ppl know how to deal with it (just dont fight it) the dmg is not so overwhelming for condi build

in tpvp i see some pu build and i just ignore them while i am holding point, or killing their friends and if they do manage to put on me burning 5 bleeding and 3 confusion i just cleanse them and pressure them with torment and they stealth away and heal

Calliope.8675:

messiah.1908:

so yes pu is not aggerssive play style as you discribe it
to put clones which put conditions pressure – how to put clones – #2 or dodge
and you want to draw the attention from your colnes to you thus you must play more defensively while your clones do all the dmg like using viel/ torch etc to buy some time for you cd . if you get chaos armor you are easily targeted thus again pkay defensively as you cannot burst the pressure the enemy to play defensive

kittenter (condi or power) you are the one who do all the dmg thus must play more agressively and hit your shatter skills at the right moment while pu hardly use them at all (maybe F3 or F4)

Yoohoo, I posted a couple ideas on how to be “aggressive” with PU. You use your scepter/torch. Staff is far more defensive than offensive. If you hope to kill your opponent with any sort of speed you will have to do it with scepter and torch. Just because you don’t know how to play aggressively does not mean you can put the build down as “non-aggressive.” It just means you never took the time to learn how to utilize the build.

sry its seems that i just troll this issue

i played pu long time ago and here and there
using your #2 scepter doesnt make you agrressive . shatter condi also use this

the main differese is the f1-4 which pu hardly use and shatter must use and must use it right like stand close to make sure the shatters hit . if you stand close you must be carful from enemy burst etc…

for me if i compare condi shatter and pu its seems that pu is more easy going while i am eating and much longer fight with greater success while condi shatter is more fast move build also with above average success

also if i fight egainst pu build i hardly die and most of them abuse stealth as i try to use aoe to kill clones and put pressure on the mesmer then he blink and stealth away

there is a reason why ppl called it cheess build

Fay.2357:

messiah.1908:

Fay.2357:

messiah.1908:

yes its boring to put 3 clones go stealth and put 3 more as you only play most of the time defense (like turret engi)

That does sound awfully boring. As I said, it’s boring if you play that way. I would never even consider playing in such a boring and passive fashion.

messiah.1908:

any decent guardian, warrior, ele, s/d or d/p thief easily wont feel the conditions output of pu

Seems to me like they just don’t feel the condition output that you make, because you play in such a boring and passive fashion.

Any build is what you make of it. If you play boring, then you’ll get boring. If you play active and aggressive, you get active and aggressive.

i am eager to see how you play aggressively with 4,4,6,0,0 pu condi build

You attack them and apply pressure? Use your skillset in an aggressive manner? I’m not sure exactly how to tell you how to play aggressive. You just don’t dodge a few times to set up clones and then afk.

so yes pu is not aggerssive play style as you discribe it
to put clones which put conditions pressure – how to put clones – #2 or dodge
and you want to draw the attention from your colnes to you thus you must play more defensively while your clones do all the dmg like using viel/ torch etc to buy some time for you cd . if you get chaos armor you are easily targeted thus again pkay defensively as you cannot burst the pressure the enemy to play defensive

kittenter (condi or power) you are the one who do all the dmg thus must play more agressively and hit your shatter skills at the right moment while pu hardly use them at all (maybe F3 or F4)

hey guys
i have played condi guard even before ppl knew it
yes it works just fine
but does it really works in any situation?
in tpvp – hardly used as better classes/build out there like engi/ necro/ which gives better group aoe
in wvw – works fine in 1v1 and with group not at all the time as your conditions will cleansed easily

Fay.2357:

messiah.1908:

yes its boring to put 3 clones go stealth and put 3 more as you only play most of the time defense (like turret engi)

That does sound awfully boring. As I said, it’s boring if you play that way. I would never even consider playing in such a boring and passive fashion.

messiah.1908:

any decent guardian, warrior, ele, s/d or d/p thief easily wont feel the conditions output of pu

Seems to me like they just don’t feel the condition output that you make, because you play in such a boring and passive fashion.

Any build is what you make of it. If you play boring, then you’ll get boring. If you play active and aggressive, you get active and aggressive.

i am eager to see how you play aggressively with 4,4,6,0,0 pu condi build

the trait u use is fine but you using them more as defense trait as you want your clones to be killed to proc more conditions while you trait for shatter for mtd

yes you need condi removal so take mantra but if you get spank by condi necro you have 25% chance to win as you will burn your condi cleanse

i also played this trait line but felt like the 0,4,4,0,6 more suitable or 0,4,2,2,6 with more cleanse when needed
4,4,0,0,6 when you fight in group for more boons removal

0,4,0,4,6 is nice buff to condi dmg but hardly needed in wvw and MOA is nice trait versus thieves and any other enemies

here is what i use in wvw (sometimes i take perplexity or torment runes)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNArfWlknpTtlpxINcrNitBZyL0LUPkqsySGghB-TFyCwAAOCA4U/h6+Dp0HgV53lTBgkHAwYlgkCAilVA-w
i get around 2.2k condi dmg in a fight , i can burst fast with MI

Fay.2357:

messiah.1908:

for roaming 1vx pu condi isnt much effective if your enemies notice you r pu
they will just disengage as it will borning slow fight

Only boring and slow if that’s how you fight with the build.

messiah.1908:

also few mtea wvw build can kill pu easily as mention above

There is no meta build other than the ‘meta’ of running a 3 thief gank party that can kill a PU build easily.

messiah.1908:

for roaming or small group go power build like 4,4,6 pu power or shatter 4,4,0,0,6

Small group, sure. Roaming, not unless you want to get dumped on.

messiah.1908:

if you wanna test something new go 4,4,0,0,6 or 0,4,4,0,6 condi shatter which can handle nice 1vx and also give great group aoe pressure

Condie shatter handles 1vx better than power shatter…but it still doesn’t handle it very well. I wouldn’t recommend condie shatter as a solo roaming build for the same reasons as the other ones, you just don’t have the defense and sustain for it.

yes its boring to put 3 clones go stealth and put 3 more as you only play most of the time defense (like turret engi)

any decent guardian, warrior, ele, s/d or d/p thief easily wont feel the conditions output of pu
DD trait after the patch is bit useless against -60% condi duration
i play shatter condi in wvw and can easily handle 1v2 (in tpvp its harder)

the main defense difference from pu its the aegis and protection so if play smartly you can kill in 4-5 sec kittenter condi rather as pu you will need 15-20 sec

for roaming 1vx pu condi isnt much effective if your enemies notice you r pu
they will just disengage as it will borning slow fight
also few mtea wvw build can kill pu easily as mention above

for roaming or small group go power build like 4,4,6 pu power or shatter 4,4,0,0,6

if you wanna test something new go 4,4,0,0,6 or 0,4,4,0,6 condi shatter which can handle nice 1vx and also give great group aoe pressure

DeathReign.7821:

Shadelang.3012:

When you see someone else is fighting someone and you just want to kitten that 1v1 over as hard as you can this is a good way to do it. Atleast that is how it feels on the receiving. As I said. Im not a mesmer. But atleast I know what its like to get wacked by it at the worst possible moment.

Problem with that though is that the traditional power shatter Mesmer will out-perform MTD easily. If a power shatter Mesmer manages to sneak up and burst someone already engaged in a fight, 80% of the time it’ll result in a kill.

Sneaking up on someone with MTD may stack a lot of conditions on them, but the way conditions work, they have a chance to cleanse it, and negate all of your damage.

TL; DR: Sneaking up on someone engaged in a fight goes hand in hand with burst. Conditions, by nature are not as effective as power spikes as a form of burst. “Omgwtfbbq I’m dead” is what you’re looking for.

why ppl still playing the mtd shatter like power shatter. if so play power shatter which is by far more appropriate.
condi shatter as i see it should hold point far or home as he can handle 1v1 nicely better than power shatter without having to run away from the cap.
also in 1v2 he can handle few seconds until thief or power shatter mesmer come to help him
also he is better in group situation while bursting on the cap point with boon stripping and condi aoe bursting which end in 2 ways:
1. the enemy group used all its condi cleanse and boons too early giving your team the upper hand
2. if the enemy group wouldn’t have died they moved away from the cap point as they cant handle the condi aoe pressure

while power shatter will just burst from range and target periphery enemy to burst as he cant handle the cap middle aoe pressure

so 2 different play style and role

mtd shatter build should be compare to other condi spec like ranger, necro and engi
necro is not so much preform in the high pvp arena while engi bit more and some ranger condi build lately have been seen in the high pvp arena

now which is better ?
engi with his kd mostly and hp regen is better point holder but his condi pressure is bit less the the mtd in group fight
ranger – good in 1v1 but cant perform like the mtd in 1v2 or point holder or group fight
necro – great cc with fear so 1v1 might be better but in group support the mtd perform better (or should at least)
mtd is good counter to guardian and ele with his boon stripping and harassing

for me both 4,4,0,0,6 and 0,4,4,0,6 is the same output dmg give or take. dom line is for boon reaping if i see 1-2 guards/ele and my job is to go mid mainly
if the team need me to go home or far i will go more 0,4,4,0,6 build with nightmare runes and MOA for more fear output to control the cap if needed.
the BI is nice but hardly i time my interruptions around it with staff or F3. maybe if i had pistol or focus but torch is much needed

msalakka.4653:

I really don’t want this to become a meta of any sorts. As soon as it does, it will get nerfed to oblivion.

dont worry

a build to be a meta one take around 6-12 months

so far only me use it in tpvp (lol)

if its 1v1 50% win
both have nice condi pressure and burst while the necro got more hp with ds
so when he ds i back off and use more staff and clones without shatter and more easy time with scepter block so almost free 5 torment

after he go out from ds i shatter and blink or stealth away till he dies

i use mantra for condi cleanse

even with condi rangers i try to stay back without shatter at first to drain his hp a bit and use block when he burst me with axe or sb

engi can be hard work with the nice heal and kd and also medi guard with nice burst

Sandrox.9524:

I would like to point out that I used MTD with a power based build gs-s/f with DE and dmg on inturpt and while the condis do almost nothing,it still puts everyone on constant pressure which is very good.It makes my job of dpsing very easy.

i try the 4,4,0,0,6 build mtd with carrion and tried several runes and its nice pressure but still the power build puts better burst pressure also its different play style than the full condi with rabid gear

Sandrox.9524:

messiah.1908:

in tpvp i have hard time versus thief. not so much p/d ones but in spvp i encounter some which if they surprise you in the middle of the fight they can take you down fast with 1 condi burst 5 torment 5 confusion poison 5 bleed weakness
but if you prepare for them the mesmer should have the upper hand (power or condi)

versus s/d or d/p thief its the hardest

in wvw most thieves are average or below it so i rarely have a problem with them

Are you sure we play the same game :o?

you mean you kill all thief no matter what the situation and what the builds?

in tpvp i have hard time versus thief. not so much p/d ones but in spvp i encounter some which if they surprise you in the middle of the fight they can take you down fast with 1 condi burst 5 torment 5 confusion poison 5 bleed weakness
but if you prepare for them the mesmer should have the upper hand (power or condi)

versus s/d or d/p thief its the hardest

in wvw most thieves are average or below it so i rarely have a problem with them

4,4,0,0,6 build with power shatter or condi shatter
power shatter play like hit and run (stealth)
condi shatter more dodges on the area to f1-4 shatters aoe
lockdown if you in small gvg as it got specific role to lock the thief/mesmer/necro

regular condi – not effective much

my problem with engi is not the fact i think their are op rather the fact they can hold a point too easy without risking much themselves
they put out their turrets in the middle so the AI do all the dmg while they are just focusing on defense and kd
its reminds me the pu memser – put clones out and focus on stealth while the clones do all the dmg

in an open area i can fight them but if they put already the turrets out its harder to contest the point

also i hate when they put turrets on windows or higher ground while they go the cap other points and other enemy player stand in the point i try to cap so its 1v1.5 with lots of condi pressure

i think turrets should disapear after the engi walk away 1200 range
also maybe the activation of the turret skills be slower or they could be killed easier even by conditions
ot maybe the range of the turrets will decrease to 600 so the engi must move from the point if he wants to fight it

tpvp pov –
so far i played a power shatter mesmer until i heard mtd is going out (before the last patch)
as a power shatter (below avergae) i notice its basic combos which mainly hit from range jump in shatter and jump out w8ing to my next icd. its very strong in support with boon removal and dmg aoe. but if thief target you your dps start to getting low as i need to play defense or run away. in 1v1 too many classes have meta counter to our shatter combos so engi/ele/ guardian/ warrior will need more focus and will get help from the thief so i need to disengage

now as mtd condi shatter its whole different story. i can hold point in most cases even some 1v2 till help comes. i can 1v1 and support in group fight. i can do higher dps on a point via shatters. i have many combo to play with and more builds to any situation. boons removal, 1v1, point holder, any case etc…

the power shatter is harder to learn and can be more enjoyable if you manage your combos while the condi shatter will yield more group acknoledge and more room to play with
i know players start to learn this build but still its hard to play against if in 1v1

i feel beside thief evey other class is boring . hambow warrior easy to play and repeatabel, d/d ele/ turret engi/ necro / guardian

mesmer and thief are the hardest to master as they must learn the enemy moves play smartly and not spam or do same combo rotatations

zaxon.6819:

.

The main issue with peoples specs is that they think shattering is where their killing damage should come from. You arent killing anything spawing 3 staff clones and shattering them on a guy.. but you can kill by putting 20 stacks of bleed then putting some torment on top.

The fact that people still think staff is a good condi weapon may be the other problem.

Staff condi works the same way PU does.. It is more of an idiot test then it is a effective weapon. If your enemy gets burned down by standing in staff clone auto attack long enough.. they may deserve to die.

if someone took 20 bleed stack he deserve to die
the shattering is the main source of dmg and pressure and all other conditions are just to cover the torment and confusion
the staff is for aoe on a point and daze and moanily to create illusion and chaos storm/armor which proc more conditions

the mtd as i see it should work aggressively when you see an opportunity to burst your shatter (after 2 dodge/ cleanse/ heal skill use etc)

if you play is slowly its like a PU concept and wont get fast kill or any pressure (maybe 1v1 but not in group fight – tpvp point of view)

Sennis.9604:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0tvDye25RE

Panic Strike Solo Que.

I’ve considered switching out Signet for Devourer Venom, or possibly Blinding Powder, because i don’t find the 1 initiative every 10 seconds that great and other than the guaranteed stomp on thieves, I don’t find it that special, especially when there are no thieves on the other team, and I can just save steal for the stomp of thieves as well.

Thoughts?

1. most of the time i saw you dodging inside guardian/necro aoe – dont
2. if guardian use focus shield dont walk to it or near it . it did 4-5k dmg to you. dodge or hit it from range 3 times
3. dog fear you 2 times so use pb+hs to constant blind also to prevent enemy to interrupt you
4. hit and run dont spam AA if you dont see you surrounding.
5. dont run to your enemy spawn alone
6. watch out guardian with aegis so AA before you burst them
7. use more HS to down 25% hp fast
8. use SB more

have fun

i did few test in tpvp arena with both power shatter and condi shatter as both got different play style
with my p shatter its hit and run. even in group style and not 1v1 you hit and stealth away looking for higher ground to hit from with some AA and illusion. looking for the 50% hp opportunity to shatter fast and leave. so the average dmg the whole time is bit low but the success in downing eney is higher

with condi shatter i play aggersively on the point all the time to spread the condi all over and pressure the enemies to cleanse early. i dont look for 1v1 even if i can do it as the dps is lower then the power shatter. so with the group the condi pressure is higher thus the average dps is higher the the power shatter. (sure if the enemy got ele and guard bunker i need to lure them to cleanse early thus my dps get lower)

1v1 power shatter is better but need the play flawless as the condi shatter give you bit more space for errors. also condi shatter may do 1v2 until help comes as the power shatter will have to run away as its too risky

also power shatter cant contest well as condi shatter as he cant play on the point

condi shatter can put fast massive pressure on a point while other condi classes cant (necro can do some 6 bleed aoe and 3 torement poison aoe while mesmer can do 6-9 torment and confusion with burning poison and other cover conditions)

condi shatter can shut down players as confusion prevent skills use and torment movement

so does it work in tpvp – yes
does it work in higher tpvp – dont know yet but guess so if group taking condi engi or necro they can take condi mesmer
does it work in 1v1 – yes (s/d hard counter and power shatter)
can it contest point and save them – yes
does it work in group fight – hell ye . while not noticed as boons will early fly away in the fight your team will have better chance to get the down early. 2-3 enemy player ignoring 5-6 torment stack and confusion will get 50% hp fast

i think the problem with turret engi is the capacity to control an area while playing defensively
lets say if turret engi is out of the open its useless but inside a point its powerful.
so i can do 1v1 and kill them but they will control the point longer and maybe call for backup till i kill them. conditions will kill them just fine but if the fight turn to 2v1 you are dead

so i dont think the build is broken rather the concept in holding point by them

(remind me the pu mesmer build – you put out your clones and go stealth while they are doing dmg and you are playing defensively)

here is the build i am testing atm

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAR7flknpMtNqxTNMrNSrBh6tcmeSyAUgSehqB-TJxHwADeCAa2fwYZAAXEAA

nice burst with gs and ppl dont know what to expect when you shatter
your might stacks can be high as 15 and more thus your dmg get higher both in condi and direct dmg

in group you can take portal
still s/d thief are hard counter to this as always
and you cannot play like condi shatter rather as power shatter (in and out)

love to hear your thoughts

try the torment build mtd
shatter on him or use scepter block and he will go SR
while is SR create distance of 15 sec ore until the thief reveal himself and block again and combo shatter him

if he just cnd spam smartly then its hard fight but if he doesnt kill your clones he will get torment stacks on him 3-4 and bleed which the thief dont like

i like so many music styles
ac/dc thunderstruck – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2AC41dglnM
daft punk – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThFnvjYYtFw
two steps from hell – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3P2iaWma-Y

Jurica.1742:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3VtLLC5AHg

I hear this on Helseths stream a lot, when I play with this on I play 10 times better than usual :P Otherwise I’m not into ‘music’ like this too much.
Sticker – I didn’t know about Temple. I’m gonna get their entire discography now. I like them a lot!

dont tell me there is a META music for mesmer now LOL

Chabo.7498:

messiah.1908:

eozturk.7205:

messiah.1908:

in 20v20 gvg (depends on the numbers) usually 1 thief and 1 mesmer both periphery harrassment

generally focus party setup is 2 thieves, 1 mesmer 1 d/d ele and random ( I saw ranger, engineer or another mesmer) depends on the guild mostly (4-5 players in total). also, having less number of players in your focus party compared to the opposing team may yield to your focus party get focus and get downed at start even before harassing their periphery,which may ruin everything at that round. imo, I suggest roam with your focus party after raids so you will get some synergy and whisper list in ts, really helps a lot (better communication without interrupting the driver)

what i know from the gvg arenas are in 20 man group
6 warrior
6 guardian
3 staff ele
3 necros
1 thief
1 mesmer

if 25 man then add 1 player more from the top

That looks like NA influenced setup. In the EU meta focus parties are usually 3-5 people with at least 1 ele 1 thief 1 mesmer. Against the better EU guilds you can’t really afford to run less than 3 because focus parties are organised enough to spot and kill each other then immediately focus on taking down range.

i am eu and that setup from the days i was gvging 2 focus in 20 man group.
maybe now its different. but if we saw d/d ele or thief or mesmer our first priority was to catch them or the necro as easy kill while their team tried to save them with heal and shout and boons

Fosio.8217:

No, you can not do 25 Bleeding stacks on a normal monster. It would die before you could even reach 15. The 25 stacks you’re referring to, is probably from champion fighting or legendary monsters. And in this case Bleeding that is displayed is not all yours and you can not see how many stacks you’ve applied, but you can only guess from the damage output ticks. (Put your cursor over the conditions displayed and you’ll see a different name than yours).

“i prefer burning as is around 7 bleed stacs”
It depends on how many times Bleeding failed to stack, because of the RANDOM effect

i guess you are pve player ( i am pvp/wvw players)
dont say NO if i said yes as i know what i am talking about as i tested it many times b4.
here is the proof by me pooff
made it just for you
also noted that the burning was ticking every sec so it was around 3.5k dps
also didnt use weapon swap (3 stacks more if needed)

i remember how the s/d meta 2.0.0.6.6 build started long ago
everyone call it uneffective no power no crit, noob.
but boom 1 patch change it all strength runes … and now history – META after the top players liked it

Dondagora.9645:

messiah.1908:

Dondagora.9645:

messiah.1908:

Dondagora.9645:

While my build is slightly different than messiah’s, I don’t think Maim is any inferior to Lockdown. Shatter is good at what it’s meant to do, but Condi Shatter is not inferior in potential.

would love to hear your build
i use 4,4,0,0,6 if no mesmer around or 0,4,4,0,6 or 0,4,2,2,6 if i see potential of condi pressure team

Actually confused you for someone else using Maim using a different build. Ours are more similar though, here: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNArfWnsISjaWoGOoB3aGp1gQdVGTPJZAKQJbQ1A-TZRHwAIOCAILDca/BBnCAAPAAA

signet heal on shatter build- why? longer cd less health
why no MI for more clones?
and you are brave one with carrion gear !
:)

Holy- What is wrong with Carrion? Mesmer’s condi weapons are half normal damage, so it just makes sense to use. I never knew Carrion was so shunned before.

Anyway, the signet heal is because I usually have 1-2 illusions up and it heals me between my shatters or during my stealth set-ups for condi-shatter bursts. And if I’m in need of an immediate heal, I can screw the passive defense for the normal heal. It isn’t that bad with my play style. Might also be due to the fact that the clones we use are ranged, so people don’t go a lot out of their way to destroy them.

As for Mirror Images… I don’t know, just not my usual thing. I could, but I find I have enough clone generation without it. Plus I use my phantasms a good bit before I shatter them. If I had to define it, this builds more like a hybrid of condi-power and shatter-phantasm, shattering when I can but using phantasms when it’s not an inconvenience.

ok good ideas- so you play illusion build basicaly but condi one
i dont like carrion not because its not good rather i play more agressive play style (more shatter then you) so i need more armor

so you play more in the periphery trying to do dmg while avoiding getting some. from the thief etc.
have you notice if you dmg is high or the condi pressure the players . is it aoe pressure or single target?

Furious.2867:

messiah.1908:

+1 to op

i give you example from yesterday tpvp i had
group of 4 guildeis looked 1 more so i wispered them and told them i am mesmer with condi mtd build (not power shatter) they took me anyway (which is nice)
they had 1 power mesmer
no ts (so i had to chat before the fight and observe the map more often to see movemet)
i went middle with 2 home 3 middle split. we cap it and i run to far for 1v1
i won and cap it. then 2 enemeis came for 1v2 and i hold it for 1 min while killing 1. then another 2 came and i manage to contest in 1 more minute until the 4th came and i run away.
what happend in those 2 -3 min? that because i manage to do 1v3 for 2 min my team hold easily 2 points for 3 min and we won
what happend after the match – kicked out… i wispered ty and wonder why

answer – you play mesmer and we have one already and you dont use meta build….
i lol- common guys 1v3/4 and instead of asking me how i did it they kicked me… not using meta build

i know meta is for the average ppl who dont open their mind to new skills/ build etc..
sure are great builds which optimom for pvp arena but maybe just maybe another build will arise after new patch to test out…

so i guess only after some OP mesmer player would test it and confirm it so other followers confirms it either . no hope for the meta…

Ugh your guildies seem narrow minded and shallow for kicking you out due to your non meta build. But I think they did it because you werent on TS. Some people are super anaal about TS

might so.. but i guess thos guildies failed to understand than even without ts i did nice job .. but the main reason i think that in the tpvp arena classes expected to play surtain build
so if guard- bunker
ele – d/d or healer bunker staff
mesmer – shatter
thief s/d d/p
engi – turret
etc…

so conclusion is they think that build carry the player and i think its both (favor the player)

i can do with staff 25 bleed stack and burning and vulnerability with 3 clines and IE
so i think it ok

i prefer burning as is around 7 bleed stacs

Narkodx.1472:

Well first of all Necro also has PoC every 15/12 seconds depending on trait it is not limited to Corrupt Boon only

I have fought this build before it is pretty good but you guys are overstating the damage – no one is going to get hit by chaos storm or staff auto attacks that often so there is a lot of damage and condition coverage – scepter is laughable damage wise if you know how to avoid the block and torch phantasm is useless – the entire build relies on shatters which are entirely avoidable

This build is easier to cleanse then necro/engi – this build is also weak against conditions a necro transfer pretty much ends your day

The AoE pressure from this build is trash Necro Staff+Sc+DS#4/5 and Engi Grenades is way better

Finally you can not hold a point as well because you stealth and are overall less tanky

you might be right but so far with the aoe of the necro and engi i manage to 100% proc block with 5 torment which lure the cleanse then boom MI dodge shatter combo and they pressure to run away. i rarely use stealth just my torch for burning so i get revealed immediately
if they kill my clones it procs 3 conditions cover with 4 bleed average
also necro attack are more slower

have you tried it or theory state it (i play necro so i know it burst potential)

but the power necro or turret engi are different story … for me at least

Dondagora.9645:

messiah.1908:

Dondagora.9645:

While my build is slightly different than messiah’s, I don’t think Maim is any inferior to Lockdown. Shatter is good at what it’s meant to do, but Condi Shatter is not inferior in potential.

would love to hear your build
i use 4,4,0,0,6 if no mesmer around or 0,4,4,0,6 or 0,4,2,2,6 if i see potential of condi pressure team

Actually confused you for someone else using Maim using a different build. Ours are more similar though, here: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNArfWnsISjaWoGOoB3aGp1gQdVGTPJZAKQJbQ1A-TZRHwAIOCAILDca/BBnCAAPAAA

signet heal on shatter build- why? longer cd less health
why no MI for more clones?
and you are brave one with carrion gear !
:)

Teutos.8620:

messiah.1908:

i just went to read the metabattle and all the meta build suffer/counter from/by conditions pressure.

Metabattle is not a good site, you don’t have any guarantee that the person putting the build online has any clue what he is talking about.

dont compare it to shatter power mesmer rather to condi nerco or engi and ask – does this build do it better/faster or in new way those other build just dont
necro dont have much aoe pressure like mtd

Necro -> more burst due to the 1k ticks from fear (with the terror trait); He has aoe bleeding and can choose there to put it, and don’t hope that the clone hit the target he is supposed to; more condition remove and condition transfer (he can transfer mtd torment back to you, even from every group member inside his putrid mark); the can counter boons with ‘Path of Corruption’ and ‘Corrupt Boon’; He can fear people off the point and therefore is able to get a point neutral without having to kill them; he has more poison. Death shroud for more survivalability.

Engi: Group heal and group condi remove with Healing Turret; more poison, more point pressure with grenades; more cc with the turret elite; More mobility with speedy kits. Can stay longer on point with the blocks. Knock-Backs to decap.

To Berserker: Normal shatter has more aoe with gs&shatter. Why should the shatter mesmer disengage more? I recommend you to watch helseth stream when he play with gs/staff again, then you can see what a berserker shatter mesmer actually can do.

necro aoe bleed is about 6-9 stacks and poison aoe which means 1k dps+ fear another 2k dmg (2 sec) not spammable. mostly used in 1v1 . so maybe yes more group utilities but less dmg

mtd – i shatter on my enemy face with MI and dodges and not from far somy clones dies while walking (not pu build)
6-9 torment + burning with torch+ 6-9 confusion + random condition with staff 5 and chaos armor . enemy are moving and using skills dmg is 4k dps . the combo can be used every 10-15 sec while necor is much longer (no fear just bleed)

engi you right turret engi are nice point holder
kit engi also more 1v1 with less condi stacking (more burning and bleeding) they dont have good cleanse maybe 1 if i am not mistaken. ele can support water field while warrior blast

(thanks for contributing to the thread with your thoughts)

perplexity for sure if you take pistol another 8 confusion stacking
torment basically longer your torment duration thats all (unless you take mantra heal and use it on the enemy location which adds up 2 stack every 10 sec)

Dondagora.9645:

While my build is slightly different than messiah’s, I don’t think Maim is any inferior to Lockdown. Shatter is good at what it’s meant to do, but Condi Shatter is not inferior in potential.

would love to hear your build
i use 4,4,0,0,6 if no mesmer around or 0,4,4,0,6 or 0,4,2,2,6 if i see potential of condi pressure team

terrormancer meta build – no aoe boon stripping just 1 single target skill every 40 sec. just condi applier bleed mainly, mainly solo build with 3 fear skills as a solo burst and ds
run with the group or stay at home hoping 1v1 . thief are hard counter

engi – now they can be harder and can hold point nice. the condi one maybe less but the turret one with kd is nice. the kit engi has lots of conditions but with low stacks and mainly bleed and burning and aoe .1v1 is strong

now mesmer mtd – has the best conditions in the game with higher stacking aoe and controlling, constant applying with shatter and clones . good aoe cc with staff and f3
aoe confusion can be 6-15 stacks – prevent smart players from dodge and use skills
aoe torment can be 6-15 stacks – prevent movement
can give chaos shield aoe which add more aoe conditions stacking
if traited can remove aoe boon almost constantly with shatter skills (if you got already shatter mesmer then you dont need it)
can hold point nice as the engi and some 1v2 for period of time
1v1 easy versus most classes.

now sure if you have ele and bunker guard even necro or engi wont hurt them much. but then go home or far to contest but mesmer can lure them to use all their boons to cleanse while the shatter remove them and now all useless for 5-10 seconds and still can fight while power mesmer will need to back away.

i have played with group of 1 condi necro- he fight the guardian on the treb 1 min and went down when ele came to help the guard. i rush and burst on his location with#4 torch swap to staff #5 staff creating clone and MI F3 F4 and res him while they were daze swap (3 stacks bleed) dodging around F1 F2 while the necro fear the ele while we both with chaos armor (blast with the torch) and both got dead saying in chat “what a bunch of conditions stacking omg lol”

but yes i got no swiftness …

nice to see other exploring it but me
so far i manage to handle every 1v1 in home point
d/p thief couldnt contested and went to often to stealth and down in the end 20 sec fight
sc/d ele 1v1 died in 10 sec as constant moving after i lure his cleanse
guardian great on bunker point down also but manage to contest the point but down after 20 sec fight
turret engi open hard so manage to contest but down after 30 sec
shatter mesmer – my hard counter but didnt manage to contest as it need stealth

1v2 – if they split zerk and bunker i am dead if i try to contest but i can manage to keep them in fight long enough 20-30 sec for my team to get uneven match in far and middle

as support on middle or far (depend the split) great constant aoe condi pressure

also dont forget confusion proc on dodge also

so glad to hear 9/10 i am sure we will see more on that in the near future

i just went to read the metabattle and all the meta build suffer/counter from/by conditions pressure.
thus a condition pressure profession or build should be good against the meta
i even saw a build which consider to be good a mesmer condition build
thus i think the mtd build is by far superior to all other condi build of the mesmer
more faster then pu
more reliable then illusion which tend to die fast
aoe pressure with shatter
soften your enemies
lure them to use utilities earlier in the fight

dont compare it to shatter power mesmer rather to condi nerco or engi and ask – does this build do it better/faster or in new way those other build just dont
necro dont have much aoe pressure like mtd
engi may be equal or better as point holder or harasser but his condi stacks are low but versatile

i dont think this build loosing dmg to any other zerk build
its aoe
its dot

true shatter mesmer can catch you unprepared and down you in 1-2 combos but this is only 1 enemy
while this build can pressure the point with 2-4k dps so on 2-3 enemies its like 4-12k dps so in 3 sec you are doing by far more dmg then the shatter one while the shatter after his combo will disengage for 3-10 sec while doing maybe AA or play defensively while the condi one will continue to shatter and doing dps

Teutos.8620:

I think most players (including myself) have tested out a lot of stuff, but without any success.

have you tested it or your friends
what was your experience
dont compare it to power shatter rather to other classes and role

would like to hear that

you could observe it like that but lets face it
power shatter mesmer can stand on point, cant contest a point,
s/d went SR cause 1.4k dps for 203 sec lower his hp below 50%
s/d didnt want to attack me again so went to the ele give me free time to shatter.
so i am harder to kill or pressured then the power shatter mesmer.
we decide the spilt before the match if the enemt team were focus middle i would go to middle etc…
the thief was pressure always wth torement and burning even when down 555 dps was ticking after his sr ended
the ele was squishy and i manage to take off the pressure.
if i play power shatter the s/d would target me so i would be pressure so the fight would have turn 1v1 for the ele which was down by the warrior.

i agree to more bad wolves i play against the better i will become

thanks for the info on rating

but i also played versus s/d thief which target me and went SR , guardian, turret engi, power necro (which turn to 1v2 but his hp was 1% and ds helped him), warrior
sure the rangers are easy kill they cant hold a point like me. their animal will cleasne but will be killed in 5 sec with torment

on 1v1 king of the hill yes its hard to fight versus s/d thief and shatter mesmer

i dont try to prove any thing rather asking and sharing with the community my experience in tpvp so far.

to be on the top i have to find a group- > to find a group which accept the fact i am condi→ condi is not meta → no top tpvp team will want it

yesterday i fought with 4 other guildies ppl . i wanst on ts so had to watch carefully their movement on the map while fighting.
i was able for 2 team fights to take far and keep it for 2-3 min in 1v1 1v2 1v3 while they were handling easy the other 2 points and we won
they kicked me as they said i have no meta build (and they got already mesmer)

all i am trying to do is to test it over and over and drive other ppl to test it
hot join are too easy and more 1v1 or 4v1

just showing me ppl dont know what mesmer capable of and stop looking for “meta”

in wvw ppl love it in 1v1 and small scale fights. why not in tpvp ?
if an ele takes 10 torment 10 confusion burning and bleed its around 4k dps so even if they cleanse it i can put it right away again (and its aoe) and even in team fight the condi pressure make them used all their utilities and cleanse while my team get the advantage