@django
i like the idea of a protter (not healer) would be fun to play
/agree with rest of points as well
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Most of you have your head stuck in MMO deathmatch. There can still be objectives in deathmatch. Think Halo, objectives galore in the form of power-ups and weapon spawns. I think as long as there are objectives most game modes can work in gw2.
Without objectives people just kinda run around the map like headless chickens and there would be a lot of stand offs because nobody would want to initiate the fight.
Just look at counter strike, it’s mostly just a deathmatch but the objective is needed so teams have a reason to engage each other.
I’m personally not a huge fan of locking people into a small circle room and just having them fight to the death and also don’t think it will work with a lot of the mechanics in this game.
that’s pretty much what this entire thread is about: deathmatch. kill enemy team to win. and by your own admission, (and the opinion of myself and some others in this thread) it wouldn’t work. so next up is a deathmatch with respawns and some kind of objective. but what kind of objective? you can’t have any npc involved such as guild lord or ghostly hero from gw1, because there’s no way to protect him. so that’s out as well. capture the flag? imagine a 5v5 where everyone is clustered around 1 guy trying to run the flag and the enemy team nukes him from orbit. it would be very difficult to get a flag through since you can’t protect your flag runner. what other kinds of objectives are there that can’t be countered with extreme damage and cc? i’m sure there are a few game modes, but they are not team deathmatch. conquest splits a team so there is not an ungodly amount of dmg in 1 spot for long. there is an absurd amount of fast damage in this game and it severely limits the viable game modes. i’m all for a fun deathmatch mode where max team size is 3, but that is not likely what anet wants.
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hey i help people often in gw1 with missions. if you need help pm me
About backbreaker, they really took your life from 500 to 0, obviously if they didn’t mess up with the combo. The only chance you had is monk catching the spike.
Fragility spike was another piece of instagib.
If you dig deeper, you’ll find that GW1 had their insta-kill builds too, obviously nerfed right after they rose.
the very important part here is, these spikes were all team spikes. it was trivial to heal through a single bb sin combo. the combo effectively locked a person down, but all you needed was a guardian (that was a common monk enchantment) and you could counterattack. that is the ocean that separates gw1 tdm from gw2, you needed to coordinate a spike with multiple people to create an effective burst that could overwhelm a healer. now we just have single players that have all of that burst with no one to prot vs them.
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this is guild wars. this game series’ most well known pvp was called gvg. it’s completely rational that pvpers from the first game would be angry about newcomers taking over the name. that’s all there is to it. wvwers should come up with a different name if they don’t want to get into pointless arguments.
downed state has been mentioned a few times already as a counter to insta-death and 60 second matches. i too thought that was the case, but it is easy to show why it doesn’t work. in a word, aoe. a tdm team would use over the top aoe damage to focus on a downed player to make ressing them impossible, or at least very painful. one way or another, people will die like flies, and there’s nothing downed state can do about it.
exactly. deathmatch would work in one of the 2 following situations:
small teams up to 3, or a team so large that reviving can be done nearly instantly and the death of 1 player doesn’t tip the scales too much. this is the “wuv-wuv limit”.
just to be clear, meta doesn’t mean a single build, but the overall picture of builds. a single build might be referred to as a meta build, or you might ask if a particular build is meta, or if you ask about the meta in general it’s a question about what builds are popular.
This is what they call GvG, biggest part to there tactics is after the GvG watching the video playing Spot the SKILL.
If anyone can find it please let me know. Between the running in zerg ball spamming I was major confused on when the skill comes into the fight.
that is a total mess. but it is presented well enough and it looks like more fun than most tpvp matches i saw. there is certainly some skill in there, but there is skill in peeling a potato too.
The Name Of GVG Must Not Be Sullied.
Knights, Destroy His Post After Time And Push For His Lord.
If pvp was like in the first video i would quit. The player barely even moves…what the hell is that crap? It just looks aweful, even in Wow back in the day they move around waaaaay more than that. That looks incredibly dull.
being rooted while casting is a punishment to balance ranged damage vs melee. moving more meant you dealt less damage but were harder to catch. if a game allows too much movement then poor positioning is difficult to punish.
it’s amazing how useless some elite skills are
if the pvp team is not in charge of pvp balance then what do they do all day? i don’t mean that they are bad devs, but i remember a sotg a while back where they said they agreed that aoe was over the top. so now i imagine pvp devs wrote a little note and sent it to the balance team “pls nerf aoe, it’s a bit much. thnx” and the balance team replied “we don’t agree. regards, balance team”
where are the split skills? where are the split traits? where are the real gameplay changes that would make this game not a joke in the pvp world? in the lack of answers there are only people’s inferences. and my inference is that pvp is a sideshow development joke that takes a very far back seat to pve where aoe would understandably be a good thing. the game is spammy and skill takes second place to it. the feedback you are looking for has been on these forums all this time. your pvp dev team already know (I hope) why this game is bad and it’s painful to watch them squirm in sotg videos where they agree with player’s issues but are powerless to do anything about it.
the details of whatever is going on in anet are not my concern. you need to restructure and give your pvp devs the authority and resources to do what they need to do. then we can talk about the community’s feedback.
this game is really not “team based”, surprised anyone would say that.
I think the issue is actually not difficulty level, it’s lack of engaging and compelling reasons to do a particular encounter. All of the rewards in this game are of two types, either repeat ad nauseum(various currencies) or rng. While these kinds of rewards do keep people playing they don’t promote a real sense of accomplishment beyond time spent or luck. I know people make the argument that being “skilled” is it’s own reward
but even olympians get trophies for their effort if they succeed.The rpg portion of mmorpg is lacking here, and by that I mean character development or progression. Before anyone jumps and says we don’t want gear treadmill, that is not the type of progression I am referring to. By level 30 in this game you more or less have the majority of the skills unlocked that you will ever use, sure traits do enhance some of these skills in some way or another but it never quite gives the sense of getting something new or really making the character that much better than before you had said trait (with a few exceptions of course). All in all it achieves little to actually connect you to the avatar you are playing when the only choice is in terms of “effectiveness”.
How wonderful would it be to have something that validates the effort you put in? Why not design content that is more engaging and compelling like unique skins that are specific to a class that requires a heroic set of adventures to obtain rather than just simply repeating x activity y amount of times? These items do not need to offer an advantage over someone else in any way just change the how and why these items are gotten.
I think back to my days with another mmorpg, where even reaching level cap required that you fought a doppelganger of yourself of sorts to progress and I can’t help but feel like those types of situations are missing here. So it is clear I am not speaking specifically about recreating that scenario, but I simply mean moments that connect you to the avatar you are playing. In conclusion, I feel like this game has tons of untapped potential and could benefit from a few more imaginative and compelling ways to give a sense of accomplishment, reward, and character progression.
because that is difficult to make.
it is a better use of dev time to make weapons that any race can use (even charr and asura) and put them behind time-gated rng mountains, then congratulate themselves on another job well done.
Imagine if we had a game
modethat was easy to watch
WHERE’S THE GUILD WARS?! GvG FIGHTS NOW !!!!
Read up on the lore. Guild Wars refers to an event back in Tyria’s history and has nothing to do with GvG.
even though this thread is going to be deleted soon, i thought i’d mention that this is almost certainly not true. gw1 was made as a pvp game with gvg as its core feature and that’s where the name comes from. during development they decided to add a pve campaign as well and tack on some lore.
Man, I really hope they bring it back and it stays. They could add something else too, like maybe every time you strike a Charr character in game you see a picture of a cat meme. Or maybe during story dialog, characters could refer to #onlyintyria.
I mean, I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m tired of thinking of my games as anything more than funparks with inflatable moon rides.
you think it will stay? hahahahaha
there is a dishonorable, but it kicks in after 5 leaves over 3 days if i’m not mistaken
if you need help in gw1 missions and such you can contact me
they deleted real teamplay when they said “all classes heal themselves!!111” and then they didn’t thoughtfully balance classes to give replacement roles. it’s this silly casual pve philosophy of “no hard roles” that gives us 0 teamplay. queue fanboys yelling the opposite.
they can’t because there are no support classes any more
we have alliance battles already, it’s called conquest. but gw1 alliance battles was better than what we have now because the gameplay was far superior. gvg would be impossible in gw2 for instance. no way to defend your base, would just be a lord rush every time.
anet should never have made an mmo, they don’t know what they’re doing. they should have just made a sequel to guild wars 1.
deathmatch can work in this game up to 3v3. my hunch is anet doesn’t view that as a “real” competitive format because of such small team size. but, as video says, it’s not about being “real competitive” it’s about giving fun and not focusing on this non-existant esport.
i’d say even more important than more mode is as he said in video that this game is not fun to play or watch. it is a clusterkitten. there needs to be a thorough look at all skills and traits and toning down the damage across the board. bring specs closer to the middle (both burst and bunker and especially condi). slow things down, create alternate effects for all spells that are much simpler on the eye, and do something about npcs everywhere.
as I wrote that last paragraph, especially when talking about the npc spam, i’m reminded that nothing of the sort will happen because this game is pve through and through. all of their money comes from pvers. all of it. and i would imagine there to be strong resistance to altering pve player experience.
i don’t have any minis for you but if you need help with missions in gw1 we can do some
it hurts my soul when i read wvw and gvg in the same sentence.
dear op who doesn’t know of the long lost art of guild wars gvg, watch and learn:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFWvdyCk1Uo
Thank you all again, for your continued responses.
After reading the responses and talking it over, we’ve come to the following review of GW2
1. Although staying on the move is fun; we really enjoyed it in The Secret World. This game feels like it relies on it way too much as a balancing mechanic for large over-the-top attacks.
2. The registration of “big attacks” although telegraphed, are often times to subtle and is easily lost in the overall battle. Both Tera and The Secret World seem to do better than this game in our opinion. (We both run 27" 2560×1440 monitors, so we should be able to see stuff)
3. There is a strong reliance on being “a rogue” vs. being “a hero” in our opinion. For us that’s not an enjoyable play style us. Personally, I like the trading blows feeling of a tank. My wife likes the raining hell on mobs. We don’t get that same feeling with this game.
We really wanted to like this game. It’s beautiful, we really liked the music and the world. The story line was compelling and well laid out. We just can’t get past the frustration of the combat system.
All in all, this isn’t the game for us. There are plenty of others out there. FFXIV, Wildstar, etc. that I’m hopeful they will be a better experience.
We may try this game again, after it’s had a chance to balance itself out a bit more and mature.
this is a fairly accurate assessment of the game. it will be hard for the fanboys to not respond point by point and tell you how you are wrong, but it’s obvious you see the game for what it is and decided you don’t particularly like it. it’s rare for new players to have that kind of clarity, nice job.
But combat isn’t necessarily bad once certain issues are dealt with. The node game however, is bad and will always be so.
Would you like to follow your seeming statement of fact with some actual… reasons for why you seem to believe that it is a fact?
which thing? that the combat is good or that conquest is bad?
@jcbroe, they are pushing e-sports snce headstart.. and yeah everyone blames this for the game’s poor gamemode variety.
game mode variety is limited by the fundamentals of the combat system. devs have said as much before. things like no energy (which contributes to elites on 1+ minute cooldowns) and no healers (greatly reduces teamfight time) prevent team deathmatch modes from lasting long enough to mean anything.
A midfight can last for 1-2 mins. Do you need more for a deathmatch? We need a mode to just ‘chill out’.
devs said deathmatch doesn’t work, and it’s obvious why
Duels do work. Give us duels. GvG works too, btw.
duels and 2v2 are ok in this game i think. maybe 3v3 too. but 4v4 and more is too much. until you break the wuv-wuv-barrier, where there are so many people on each side in a fight that seeing what your opponent is doing is inhumanly possible but it doesn’t matter anyway.
gvg doesn’t work because it would be impossible to defend your base. it’d just be a simultaneous lord rush every time.
@jcbroe, they are pushing e-sports snce headstart.. and yeah everyone blames this for the game’s poor gamemode variety.
game mode variety is limited by the fundamentals of the combat system. devs have said as much before. things like no energy (which contributes to elites on 1+ minute cooldowns) and no healers (greatly reduces teamfight time) prevent team deathmatch modes from lasting long enough to mean anything.
That’s such a load of crap. Hotjoins are kitten near deathmatch, and they are by far the most popular part of spvp. Deathmatch has never been tried. The devs played a couple games of it in house during development, decided they didn’t like it, and figured that was enough for them to make up their mind and never go back on it.
At this point, I’m pretty sure the devs just don’t want to be proven wrong after how insistent they’ve been. Even if they didn’t want to make a new map for deathmatch (because the maps they do make are so incredibly awesome right?), all they had to do was make it possible to turn nodes off in customs. If people liked it, they would play it, if they didn’t, they wouldn’t.
team deathmatch. where if you die you’re dead unless someone resses you. where the objective is to eliminate the enemy team. not endless-respawn-chaos that is hotjoin and conquest now. if you want endless zergs or scattered 1v1’s then yes conquest is fine and there is no problem.
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@jcbroe, they are pushing e-sports snce headstart.. and yeah everyone blames this for the game’s poor gamemode variety.
game mode variety is limited by the fundamentals of the combat system. devs have said as much before. things like no energy (which contributes to elites on 1+ minute cooldowns) and no healers (greatly reduces teamfight time) prevent team deathmatch modes from lasting long enough to mean anything.
A midfight can last for 1-2 mins. Do you need more for a deathmatch? We need a mode to just ‘chill out’.
devs said deathmatch doesn’t work, and it’s obvious why
@jcbroe, they are pushing e-sports snce headstart.. and yeah everyone blames this for the game’s poor gamemode variety.
game mode variety is limited by the fundamentals of the combat system. devs have said as much before. things like no energy (which contributes to elites on 1+ minute cooldowns) and no healers (greatly reduces teamfight time) prevent team deathmatch modes from lasting long enough to mean anything.
really it’s funny because at first blush, the pvp in this game seems amazing. lots of dodge rolls and blinks and bursts and general fast pace. they may even think it takes some kind of skill to win in this game but it is just an illusion easily dispelled by playing a fotm build for a little bit.
devs have said they are working on a build template system that would allow you to load/save builds, but there are no details or eta.
I would take Helseth’s criticisms with a grain of salt. From all appearances he has not played any other esport game on a competitive level. If this is indeed the case then he has no frame of reference by which to judge.
he said exactly what all of us have said since game launch. if anything, he could be accused of saying things we already know to be true.
What in the world is the guy above me rambling about ? Altering the behavior of skills surely can’t be very difficult technically. At least it isn’t in other games as modders very well know.
i don’t know either, i think he is a crazy wow guy. that was a really strange post.
i play female characters normally because they are much more “interesting” to look at while i play.
just an fyi, petitions are not allowed in the forum i believe and a moderator may delete your thread. you may want to quickly change that.
also i thought this was about real gvg like from gw1, but this is yet another confusion of terms with the wvw players taking over “gvg” term.
i haven’t been playing since this update that adds dishonor, but if it isn’t working then maybe it’s because as I suspect it’s not “immediate” enough. it should disable pvp entry sooner and for fewer offenses, but also expire much faster. gw1 system I think was good. if you left 2 times in an hour you were banned from pvp for like 10-15 minutes. I think it’s pretty silly that dishonor lasts several days.
the entire trait system is in need of some serious revision
the truth is this game is not meant to be pvp-based, so it is unlikely we will see any significant changes. there will only be small nudges to get the game slightly more in balance, but the core issues of dodge and dmg spam go far too deep to change.
I seriously doubt Anet will bother to watch Helseths Rant of the week, due to the current state of their relation.
Even if they do watch his rants its unlikely they will admit having watched it, but I would like to be proven wrong.If that pax incident never happened, helseth’s dedication to gw2 would be unquestionable and probably followed Powerr’s path becoming a part of Anet
of course they might watch it. the point is if they do anything about it.
Diogo, all very very good ideas that could work within the weird combat system anet imposed on themselves. energy would help, but as you said there could be other costs instead — there just need to be many more of them.
yeah… that’s not gvg… but ok man
in the early phases of the first game, guild wars was set to be pvp only, but they then added pve and decided to add lore and keep the name; guild wars 2 right now seems just to be a game that is set in the same world
precisely
And when will people understand that Guild Wars is a lore-based name rather than gameplay-based?
I’m really astonished people actually believe this
the center of gw1 was pvp, especially gvg. the weak claim that guild wars was about some event in lore and not the core pvp feature is pretty much bunk.
@op
there are some serious problems with the pvp system in gw2. we are stuck with conquest or other capture point type game modes for the foreseeable future. primarily, the exclusion of dedicated healers makes team deathmatch games (such as gvg) problematic. the pvp devs have said they are testing many different game modes internally since beta, but have so far never mentioned anything about a new mode being released.
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if you are getting the 1 year present now, when they get theirs you will be getting your second year present.