I’ve Played a little Gw1.. I don’t liked the way thakittens goes on.. I mean :
Talk to NPC> Get one item > Talk Back to Npc;
Talk to NPC> Kill x Monsters > Talk Back to NPC
But I’ll try to acostume with it. Its the sort of gaming that I don’t like to play, but if the history is good, should be worth. Its only strange I’m not playing as an Asura lol
that sounds like you’re doing quests
my quest log is miles long because i never did any of them.
you can level and progress through the story just fine by doing story missions almost exclusively. if you want some help pm me and i’ll add you to my friend list in gw1
it may be that in the beginning you have to do quests, but if it’s boring then don’t do it — chances are you don’t really have to.
devs will likely never do this. the game is designed to be very forgiving.
a simpler solution would be to reduce access to dodge/evade and blinds. but they won’t do this either because it would be too much of a difference from pve (assuming you’re talking about split from pve)
oh my god that’s depressing
it’s one thing to not have gvg like in gw1 here, but it’s really sad to see the original meaning turned into “25v25 mass chaos”
I’m pretty sure builds are not being shown to avoid wasting time, if you spend 30s on each player, that’s 5 minutes spent on builds each time…
If you’re curious you could just ask the players after the match, although builds are pretty much the same since 1999 (with the few new-meta exception ofc)
As for the other stuff, yeah someone who doesn’t play GW2 has no chance to understand anything about the game by watching these events.
“wasting time”? I’d think that build discussion would be quite interesting. The real problem is that since this is streamed during play, the enemy team can watch and see exactly what their opponents are using and doing. That’s why we can only spectate hotjoins and not tournies.
they did not design the combat properly to allow team deathmatches, so those modes have been tested internally and they decided it is just a clusterfk and not fun to play. which is also why the only mode is conquest — because it forces your team to split up in 1v1 situations
this was already discussed months ago
if it was based on damage, then each team would just get their boss down and no one would even consider ganking. so then what’s the point of the bosses if each team is ahead the same amount of points?
Guild Wars is a very different game from Guild Wars 2. I understand the sentiment (I myself was a Guild Wars player, Spearmen 44/50!), but we did not build a new game to be just like an old one. While we can certainly gain inspiration from it, comparing the two skill systems is not very helpful because they are vastly different.
Then why call it Guild Wars?
Because the game world is the same, because the lore is the same, etc..
Having the same name and being a sequel does not mean that the gameplay should remain the same (if you want an example, look at the Final Fantasy games, same name, totally different world and gameplay each time)
Otherwise they could have just upgraded GW1 graphic engine :p
Guild wars 1 got so many things right, it is very sad to see that they threw all of it out, and made a different game that can’t even support basic deathmatch combat, let alone the pioneering pvp formats GvG and HA. But it’s great that we have lore continuity…
Guild Wars is a very different game from Guild Wars 2. I understand the sentiment (I myself was a Guild Wars player, Spearmen 44/50!), but we did not build a new game to be just like an old one. While we can certainly gain inspiration from it, comparing the two skill systems is not very helpful because they are vastly different.
Then why call it Guild Wars?
Are you serious? That can’t be serious response at all. When people make a sequel to a movie if they want it to be successful they don’t make the exact same movie. You continue story lines draw inspiration but you don’t want it to be a remake you want it to be reimagined (see recent Batman movies and recent Man of Steel)
If we look at games you can get away with sequels that are pretty much the same game with a 2 on it for a little while. Eventually people find it old or they feel ripped off I am talking about yearly releases like Call of Duty, Madden, Street Fighter 2 (insert several variations of the same game with new characters)
If GW2 was GW1 with shiny new graphics people would play it enjoy it but if you want to last you have to make the sequel different enough from the original especially if you want to draw in new players.
I wasn’t trolling. What does gw2 have in common with gw1 gameplay? If you are making a sequel, it’s because you want to expand on the prequel. If you want to start from scratch then start a new offshoot franchise.
Guild Wars is a very different game from Guild Wars 2. I understand the sentiment (I myself was a Guild Wars player, Spearmen 44/50!), but we did not build a new game to be just like an old one. While we can certainly gain inspiration from it, comparing the two skill systems is not very helpful because they are vastly different.
THe reason I quickly jump into the sPvP forums is because that’s usually the best place to talk overall game balance.
This is not something I wanted to read. You’ve basically just told everyone that most of the time you don’t even bother reading the class sub forums, and that if we want any kind of balance attention outside of spvp we need to come here to vent our frustrations. Balancing the entire game around spvp is a really, REALLY bad idea. The ONLY ideas for balancing you’re going to get in this sub forum will revolve around spvp. Its already been shown that this game mode is by far the least popular thing your game holds. You’re just shooting yourself in the foot by coming here looking for balance info.
I don’t even know what to think about all this, but I’m seriously disappointed, and appalled at this whole situation. This forum is by far the worst place to get objective feedback. Its full of nothing but people attempting to get one class or another nerfed so they can continue face rolling with their current build/team set ups.
If I had any faith that this game was in good hands before, it sure is gone now. Guess I’ll just wait for the next MMO to come out at this point.
At this point, the only way you can save your game is to just bite the bullet and split balance between the two. You cannot balance your entire game around spvp. It will not work and will do nothing but make your greater population base angry and quit.
hey man, i mostly agree with you, but i think it’s replies like these that make devs not post in forums
I go by the name of Denshee and I play for Denial Esports/The Civilized Gentlemen.
For the past couple of months I have put a lot of time into this game, not only because I enjoy the gameplay but because I believed this game could go places in terms of Esports. I commited my time first into Idle and now into Denial/TCG and by a lot of time I mean about 4-5 h of team practice 6 days a week. Outside of that I played the game with friends or alone for fun. For a while i have been doing this while working 8am-5pm (a lot of people do this nothing special about it), but I have dedicated all of my free time in preparation of the tournaments coming up. Just this week I took two days off work to “learn” s/d thief in case it was of need for my team in the tournament.
This applies to every single member of our team, Helseth espeically. Even Battosai who stepped in as our fifth when Vanish was not eligible to participate due to his age, have spent numerous hours into making it work. In all honesty we were one of the top contenders to win this tournament.
Now with this said I hope you can understand that the ban one day ahead of when the qualifiers start comes as quite the shock. I cant defend Helseths actions nor do I intend to but I can voice my concern that I think you (Arenanet) have handled this case without any respect to the other parties involved. Would I be out of my mind if I propose you let Helseth act as our fifth through the qualifiers and then we replace him if we earn a place at PAX?
At this time this is all I have to say, looking forward to a response.
Thanks in advance!
// Denshee
I don’t care about this esport thing, and I know nothing about you or your team.
Your entire post reads like it’s trying to guilt the developers into bending the rules in your favor.
Regeneration is a boon, and all boons should fairly effect classes the same. Thief/Guardian/Elementalist take less damage then Necromancers/Warriors, so naturally regeneration should heal them for more to compensate.
in most cases yes
vs mesmers and thieves for instance no
i used to blind all the time on my engi with flamethrower mid-stomp
well, actually, it depends on how you are blinding. the key to making it work is to blind just before they use their #2, but if your blind is not instant (can’t be cast mid-stomp) then it is probably not worth it since their #1 will clear it.
in general I agree with your post. I think devs said “gw1 was too complicated, let’s start over with gw2”, and then they made it just as complicated, but moved it all into boring number game where all the classes have various amounts of health and toughness and all the extra stats and all the rng and the +5% to sword damage. like gw1 was the antidote to boring rpg elements with a focus on active play, and here we are again with the spreadsheet stat gameplay. they’ve made it potentially just as hard to balance this game with so few skills as gw1 was with all of its.
A solution to this would be to introduce the system of GW1, where bleed made a % of health damage per second. This would be balanced class wide in itself.
I think people have forgotten what it’s like to not know anything about this game. Also, they have a weird, emotionally-tinted view of what the game is right now vs what it would be with this change.
Guys, there’s already a copy-paste meta. It’s not like people all made up the builds they’re running. The only difference would be more players playing better builds. Really, it’s not like it’s the end of the world.
edit:
there are 2 classes of pvp players: those who “know” what the meta is, and those who have no clue. The difference in game experience between these two cannot be overstated. The first group is able to create new effective builds and experiment with various sigils, weapons, and classes while measuring their performance in terms of “better or worse than the meta”. The second group has no idea the performance he should expect from any particular class. He has no idea whether he is going in the right direction with his build, or barking up the wrong tree. The single most important difference between these 2 groups is actually not skill, it’s experience with the right builds so they can better judge other builds’ effectiveness. Not only that, but a meta build plays much better, and the new player will be less likely to quit in frustration.
Jasher, before anyone can begin to care about the game, they have to be given a reason to care. if new players get crushed in spectacular fashion every time they play, and hear their team complain about them running weird pve builds, they will just quit. most are not going to care to try and figure things out the hard way.
as Empathetic Fighter said, you can’t begin to know what you’re doing when you’re making a new build, unless you have experience with what the meta is and the capabilities of your class. by giving a good build to noobs, they have a head start on that path.
Problem I see is that a build isn’t what you always need. There is a certain amount of skill or strategy behind a build that makes it ‘click’.
yes, there is a difference between skill and your build. at least get the noob up to speed with an appropriate build, then he can figure out how to play skillfully as normal.
I definitely agree, that for a new PvP player it is really overwhelming to get into mists and be faced with all the traits and utility skills, weapons sets, amor and weapon runes… Unfortunately there are many ways to go wrong in this game when making your own build if you are not familiar with how pvp works here and what the purpose of your character should be.
I emphasized the word purpose because I think, that when pre-made templates are available for new players to try, those templates should also have a description of what the build was supposed to be doing, it’s strengths and it’s weaknesses, etc. You know… the general idea. It will also help new players to understand classes better, and to understand the fact, that classes have their roles in tpvp, and that not all builds are made to be superstrong in 1v1. Sadly, Hot-Join creates the opposite impression. Everyone wants to be strong 1v1 there and farm as many points as possible.
Adding starter tamplates is a big thing for new players. I have been playing since release and even I sometimes find myself discouraged trying to find a new working build for a class that I don’t know very well…
i was talking about having an automatic system (npc you can talk to is best i think) that displays what popular builds are being run this week. starter templates that don’t suck are a good 2nd place. if these can be explained to a new player then all the better. the problem we run into if it’s not being constantly updated, is several patches later the starter builds are already out of favor. and if it’s an automatic system then it’s problematic to give build descriptions.
i don’t think people are understanding how this game works.
there are “meta” builds. popular builds that everyone plays. they are considered to be the most competitive. new players don’t have access to these “meta” builds, because they may not even understand that such a thing exists. even if they do, they have difficulty finding an appropriate one (lots of gw2 build websites with outdated builds, etc).
new players are being competitively crippled by not knowing what the meta is. each individual person may then decide to use or not use this information, and neither decision has a negative impact on the game.
I for one am against promoting so called “optimized” builds. There should always be experimentation and growth in builds. I run a 3 Turret/1 Kit build that is considered sub-par, but I always bring massive amounts of control and sustained damage to every fight I participate in. Even when I score/prevent multiple stomps, revive my teammates over and over, and win the majority of my 1v1 encounters I get asked after a loss “So, what build are you running? I haven’t heard of it. Why don’t you run HGH?”
Because I’m comfortable and fluid when I play my build and I contribute more to my team. Playing my build is second nature and my timing proves it.
TL;DR
As far as new players entering pvp there should be more automated guides and tutorials available. For example, they should be able to enter a map where the enemy team consists of 5 computer controlled npcs. This way they can ease into group dynamics slowly instead of jumping into the deep end of the 8v8 zergfest of sPvP.
lol your tldr has nothing to do with your main post
anyway, having easy access to popular builds will likely have little effect on what people initially run. They will almost certainly play whatever they had in pve. and then they will get owned often, and maybe just before quitting they will try them out. and it has only a positive effect on people trying to customize their build, since they will be winning more often and have an easier vantage point from which to understand the game and how they may want to alter the build to suit their needs. low barrier to entry to the meta should never be confused for restricting personal freedom.
This is such a bad idea. This would just promote more ignorance. The people who copy/paste builds and don’t even read through all of their traits and weapon skills are the same people who QQ on forums: “My class is underpowered”
the initial experience of playing with a bad build is one that makes people quit. if people play with a good build, even if they don’t fully understand it, they become engaged. if people are engaged, they will begin to care more about customizing their builds.
My guild does alot of ingame events and we´d like to host a tournament once a month. Problem is we´d only be willing to pay the initial cost of 1600gems and then only add tokens when we host these events. It´s ridiculous that our CA would be deleted if we don´t keep adding tokens to it. I´d much rather be able to re-activate it whenever I want instead of having to buy a new CA kit for 1600 gems once my old one gets deleted ( what were you thinking anet?)
We are a 500member guild on the Gandara server and imo Arena Net has made a big mistake as it would be guilds like us that introduce more /new players to spvp.
PvP = 0 gold, 0 gold = 0 gem
Still, PvP has the most expensive consumable non-permanent item in the gemstore.
The idea is to get real $$$ from pvpers with those arenas. With 500 people in your guild, with less than 10cent/month each you could mantain a couple CA with no issues
what a great idea, i’m sure all their members will be excited for this tax
Problem is that enforces the meta. I dont think that’s what the developers want. They want people to keep experimenting other options and find ways around the meta.
ya that could be true, but just as it makes it easy to create a meta, it makes it easy to create a counter-meta. “what is the most popular build? i’ll roll a counter to that”
there are already ways to get access to popular builds, but they are not easily accessible to new players, anyone that plays often enough will know what they are. lack of information is a poor way to encourage experimentation. there are things that work and things that don’t. at least start with something that does.
If they had some way of seeing what the most popular builds are. An NPC you go to in HotM where he just lists the top 10 most common builds for spvp and tpvp. Allow a small margin of difference (1-2 traits and skills) when counting.
I was thinking to myself, if there was a wide swath of skill splits for pvp (which is needed, really), how would a pve player that just stepped into pvp know how to make heads or tails of anything? Also useful for players wishing to try a new profession. Useful for those that wish to try to create “counter” builds to the meta.
Problems I foresee:
requires build template support (maybe it will be released before next century)
makes obvious how stale the meta is when these top builds don’t ever change.
It’s important to help curb the frustrations new players have by at least giving them a good starting point, they can then modify their specs as they play them to their liking.
leman for pvp dev 2013
From what I can gather, the primary reason this won’t happen is management within the company is reluctant to take pvp seriously / implement drastic changes. But it is a fact that this game will remain a joke pvp-wise unless it happens.
They do care about GW2 PvP…
But are incapable of actually helping it…
Which tragically, for all intensive purposes, is the same thing as just not caring.
the most obvious thing to do that does the most good for the game is to tone down condi dmg. another idea would be to implement a “max degen” cap like in gw1.
Warrior is considered the weakest class in spvp. Necro is one of the best since the last patch. They are like walking thermonuclear devices. You should make a new character of a profession that is considered strongest and get the build that is considered the strongest, and then you will have more fun. I don’t know if you’re aware, but you can start a new character and jump into Mists as level 2, and you will be bumped up to 80 without any problems. I don’t play this game any more because it’s terrible, but you may want to ask around for a good spec and try spvp that way.
They won’t significantly tone down aoe. Why? because it’s a core component of pve. GG.
Core component of PvE is melee cleave mostly. The major problem currently is ranged AoE pressure.
Also, PvP/PvE split.
well the “core” of pve is actually the casual, and any nerf to aoe is a nerf to how easily they can kill mobs. they could do pvp skill splits, but i think they are reluctant to drastically alter pvp experience.
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