If you really want to be sad, look at the PvP forum. That forum ALWAYS has Dev activity.
it’s because they feel most sorry for us
Dishonored does count for that scenario, ThatShortGuy.4672. If a player never joins when the queue pops, they will receive dishonored.
isn’t that a little sadistic? if someone doesn’t want to play anymore when their turn comes up, why should they get punished? they should just be asked if they want to join, requeue or exit queue.
- present join next game / requeue / leave queue options.
- 10 seconds to choose or it requeues you
- if it auto requeued you 3 times it boots you from queue with a message
- when you click join it doesn’t actually join the game it just shows a message that it is waiting for other players and you can continue doing what you were doing.
- when all 10 players have clicked join, then it moves all players into match immediately.
- if not enough players clicked join (or an uneven number if you prefer) after x amount of seconds (maybe 30) then it requeues all awaiting players with a message that some players didn’t join in time so everyone is requeued.
there is 0 reason to give dishonor to queued players. the entire system needs to be fair to those that decide not to play, and especially to those that do.
(edited by milo.6942)
the chat suppression is way too strict
whilst
i love this thread
master troll
A+
..snip
Honestly I am not trying to be a pain but I really do no see it. If someone logs in the game to finish off the daily quickly so as to not add an extra day to their wait time for a particular reward, they’re not going to stick around once they finish the daily to browse the gem shop and buy some stuff for their character. They’ll likely be in a mad hurry, it takes time to browse the gem shop and choose stuff so why would they do it? If they feel the urge to buy stuff and again I dont see that happening if like you said they feel forced to log in and thus in an angry state for sure. If they feel like buying stuff it makes more sense to me that they would leave it for one of their regular gaming sessions when they have all the time they need to quitely look around and select stuff they like and not doing it at a time when they’re in a hurry and already spent 30 minutes they dont have playing to finish of the daily!
who is more likely to buy in the gemstore: someone who logs in for 15 min or someone who doesn’t log in at all?
they’ve got to get you into the game first. they can’t make you buy anything, they can only work to increase their chances that you’ll buy. they don’t especially need to “market” to the player that logs in every day for a few hours, because they are already hooked. they may or may not buy but there’s little else they can do to influence it. the amount of people that don’t have time to play but have money to spend however, is a market they can move in to.
I’d say they’re both equally not to buy anything.
you are simply wrong. i asked which was more likely to buy something, and the obvious answer is the person that logs in occasionally to do a daily. if you don’t understand how that would be the case then i’ve nothing further to add.
..snip
Honestly I am not trying to be a pain but I really do no see it. If someone logs in the game to finish off the daily quickly so as to not add an extra day to their wait time for a particular reward, they’re not going to stick around once they finish the daily to browse the gem shop and buy some stuff for their character. They’ll likely be in a mad hurry, it takes time to browse the gem shop and choose stuff so why would they do it? If they feel the urge to buy stuff and again I dont see that happening if like you said they feel forced to log in and thus in an angry state for sure. If they feel like buying stuff it makes more sense to me that they would leave it for one of their regular gaming sessions when they have all the time they need to quitely look around and select stuff they like and not doing it at a time when they’re in a hurry and already spent 30 minutes they dont have playing to finish of the daily!
who is more likely to buy in the gemstore: someone who logs in for 15 min or someone who doesn’t log in at all?
they’ve got to get you into the game first. they can’t make you buy anything, they can only work to increase their chances that you’ll buy. they don’t especially need to “market” to the player that logs in every day for a few hours, because they are already hooked. they may or may not buy but there’s little else they can do to influence it. the amount of people that don’t have time to play but have money to spend however, is a market they can move in to.
You know what I think Anet do?
I think over the entire game they have a fixed limit of rewards they want players to be able to achieve, this is to protect the games economy which in turn protects gem sales…
So what they do every so often is mix up the rewards, so it seems the game is more rewarding but what they actually do is nerf rewards somewhere else to pay for better rewards elsewhere…
So this latest patch gives better rewards for champions for example but its dungeon runners who pay for it…and so on…
I don’t think its a accident that Anet have a economist on the payroll whose job it is to manage the economy…
very insightful
i keep saying the gemstore seeps into everything anet does, people should pay attention. follow the money.
they should do the logical thing and put the lw content as dynamic events in the open world like molten alliance
yes i agree and anet should listen up
the classes and specs get very boring to play after a few hours
and it is expensive to try new stat configurations
also skills are boring after a while and enemy ai doesn’t make things much better
you know, until the second paragraph you had nothing to worry about from mods
they should redo all current skills before making new ones
make many of them have little less damage or effects than normal
but bonus damage or effects when meeting certain conditions
gw1 had a cool district system
like so many things, gw2 threw it away to make room for more “mmo” features
They clearly want ascended gear to take 15 days at least to earn.
Before time-gated mechanisms in games not a single designer talked about getting items in terms of days. It’s always been simply effort. Do X to get item Y. Not do insubstantial thing X for every day to get item Y after Z days.
They’re wrong in artificially dragging out content. Let’s not forget that this assumption of theirs is worth questioning.
and i think the most obvious reason is money
keep people logging in and you have higher chance to sell on gemstorePeople keep saying this but no one explained to me how 20 days worth of gold make you log in less then 20 days worth of dailies.
If anything, if you want to argue the more you log in the more chances you have to spend money in the gemstore wouldnt requiring 20 days worth of gold make it much more likely to use the cash shop?
for one you can just buy yourself out of those 20 days using gems -> gold conversion but even forgetting that
you can finish 20 days worth of dailies in a about 15 hrs
20 days worth of gold on the other hand could take as long as 160 hrs if they calculate a day worth of gold as 8 hrs of game play.Isnt someone who’s playing for 8hrs a day for 20 days be much more likely to spend money on the cash shop that another who barely logs in for 30 minutes a day for 20 days?
you had it right when you said
If anything, if you want to argue the more you log in the more chances you have to spend money in the gemstore
dailies and laurel system are something to make people come back because they are perceived as being easy and fast to do, with a good reward. gold is not as good at making people come back every day, because many people are tired of farming gold all the time, and anyway there are many people that don’t know or care to farm gold. but the daily they do know, and they know there is a good reward, so they say “i will log in for 15 min to get my laurel.” and this is like the sales in stores. did you think a sale was just to get rid of an item and sell a lot of it? no, the purpose is to get people into the store so they can see other products and maybe they think to themselves that they want to buy a few more items as well. it’s a similar concept with dailies.
Isnt someone who’s playing for 8hrs a day for 20 days be much more likely to spend money on the cash shop that another who barely logs in for 30 minutes a day for 20 days?
this is probably the opposite of the truth. it’s the people who don’t spend so much time in game (but continue to log in) that don’t have sufficient gold for nice items. so it’s them that are most likely to spend real money.
i don’t say that anet are an evil corporation that wants to suck all the money from people, no. however i don’t think we should be naive about their business model. in my opinion they are trying to find a balance between max profits and minimum player unhappiness. these dailies and the living story are “sales” to get people into the game and keep giving people chances to get interested again. an interested person spends money.
They clearly want ascended gear to take 15 days at least to earn.
Before time-gated mechanisms in games not a single designer talked about getting items in terms of days. It’s always been simply effort. Do X to get item Y. Not do insubstantial thing X for every day to get item Y after Z days.
They’re wrong in artificially dragging out content. Let’s not forget that this assumption of theirs is worth questioning.
and i think the most obvious reason is money
keep people logging in and you have higher chance to sell on gemstore
Zerg
what is zerg
it’s like a meta-profession, but it’s not too great at 1v1
lol dat staff. Idk who does this stuff but its gotta stop someday. Charr/norn gear looks goofy and most of the non GS weapons look goofy.
+1
you think it’s gonna stop soon? they’re only getting worse as they run out of ideas
those are some really bad looking weapons
Ban Asura..
It’s ridiculous that there is one race which gives you such huge advantages…
It’s even more ridiculous how the devs are completely ignoring this problem.
Different animations;
Small small Size;
= Over powered.
yes but think of the poor pvers
separate the pvp into free stand-alone add-on
yes i agree. i’ve always thought this trend to more and more outlandish and flashy armors was a bad one. there is a lack of simplistic elegance
i’m really surprised so many people support this voting-on-features system. they pick 2 good ideas and then make sure that 1 of them will never come to fruition? that’s a great system… thanks for making the best possible game for your players.
my only 2 level 80’s before i quit were an elementalist and an engineer. the engineer was very boring to play, with pistols being brain dead condi and rifle being slightly more interesting, but frustratingly lacking in damage. the kits were fun for a while, and my favorite was the flamethrower just because it was more challenging to wade into melee (was completely tired of the boring weapons), but even so it felt like an exercise in futility, since i didn’t do as much damage as my warrior. the ele was much more fun to play, but ultimately it became very obvious that i had to do quite a lot of work to even kill trash mobs with my scepter dagger setup. staff was boring and largely ineffective in normal encounters. it was fun for a while to have many options, and it is probably the most challenging profession to play in gw2, but it really felt like i was less effective than other classes at anything specific.
so, in conclusion, i’d say that the classes are on a spectrum of complex to effective, with the more effective classes being the simplest to use optimally, and the most complex being more “versatile” but this versatility was largely wasted on the boring ai encounters.
I roll a die every time I feel like buying a RNG anything (chest keys for example) from the gem shop.
If I roll a seven then I buy some keys.
i hope you’re rolling d6
Enemy cast bars are going to be in eventually. I can almost guarantee it. They solve way too many problems.
last i heard from evan lesh (i think) they were thinking of adding cast bars, but it was very very low priority. that statement really blew my mind and made me think they had very little idea of what pvpers have to deal with.
had good points, but really needs to speak more clearly and slowly
don’t worry women, i will protect you from the hordes of unwashed chauvinist male gamers
yes,
come to me
the skills in gw2 are balanced primarily around cooldowns. if there would be an energy component, then the skills could have reduced cool downs, and appropriate energy costs ranging from cheap to very expensive. so far so good, i don’t think i’ve lost anyone.
Nope, you’re already lost.
where is the strategy?
It’s in circumventing the costs. It’s ALWAYS in circumventing the costs. And if you can’t, then the costs are either menial so don’t matter very much or players will feel stifled in what they can do and how often they can do it…the same as cooldowns.
Is this rocket science?
if there are only the cooldowns, then the decision is simplified to be basically: is this damage skill off cooldown? if yes, use it.
I think the problem here is, you think adding complexity where it’s not needed adds depth.
If this were a new game that had no backbone to build around yet, you can think and balance how you want. If we’re comparing systems, they don’t really impart different outcomes, just shifting your perspective around.
If we’re trying to add depth to combat, simply impart more drastic/varied use of the skills. Whether they cost time, a replenishing resource or a limited consumable isn’t what makes the combat strategic.
Are we ready to look past that yet? I guess I should just disclaimer the above as my opinion, but it’s not some loopy logic leap here, and no one seems to acknowledge the point that, if skills cost magic points, people will just aim to replenish magic points faster than they can normally consume to offset the ‘strategy’ of moderating its expenditure.
man, it’s really obvious you didn’t play gw1
i can’t even have a discussion about energy without you pre-deciding based on other games. for instance in your last paragraph:
if skills cost magic points, people will just aim to replenish magic points faster than they can normally consume to offset the ‘strategy’ of moderating its expenditure.
lol, yes. of course. that’s half the fun of making your builds. trying to see if you can fit in that expensive attack by maybe taking a weaker attack that gives you some energy back. i think you have “standard” mmo ideas about energy since you were convinced gw1 had energy potions (wow, lol). it had a fast rate of regeneration for energy, and then a selection of skills that allowed you to gain energy back in certain situations. example: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Searing_Flames searing flames is an expensive elementalist elite that causes burning and http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Glowing_Gaze glowing gaze gives you energy back if the target is burning. not all builds were like this, such as monk bars that often didn’t have any skills to manage energy, and just relied on the base energy rate of regeneration to pace themselves. but again, it’s difficult to discuss this if you don’t know where i’m coming from.
- CC’ing an enemy that is heading towards an ally in trouble (downed, low on health, heal on CD)
- Giving damage reduction boons (Protection, Regen, Vigor)
- Clearing conditions
- Reviving allies
- Taking my CoF example, swapping with an ally when stacks get too high.
How are these sorts of things not supporting your allies?
i wanted to butt in and say those examples you’ve give are the sorts of things I’d like to see more of in this game. but they are not well supported by the game currently. reviving allies is a given and barely worth mentioning btw. something to think about however, is that if these aspects were made more viable, then would a trinity (or more plainly in English: an allocation of roles, whatever those roles may be) form? “you take some cc and be a dedicated resser/supporter/ccer” or whatever
CCing enemies that are downed/low on health is very very widely used in PvP, either sPVP or WvW, also in non-boss encounters in PVE too, or at least it should be used by non-brain dead players.
Buffing is something that is well used by good groups in the game. Just watch those speed kills of Lupicus and see how much they buff each other, might stacks, blast finishers on fire fields etc Same goes for any well “trained” WvW group, they always stack and buff up before rushing to wipe their enemies, and it DOES make a big difference, allowing groups of fewer people to defeat larger forces. Stability buffs make certain fights/encounters far easier.
Clearing conditions on the entire party is used in other encounters too, an Elementalist is an excellent condition cleaning machine, or a Guardian.
Riving allies is obvious. However there is still party synergy when riving too, a Thief using Shadow Refugee to stealth the downed ally, a Guardian using Shield of Absorption to knock back enemies so allies can rez, and so on.
And the most often used party support, Reflections. When was the last time you were standing behind a wall, or inside Feedback, while fighting a boss encounter? That’s a widely used support option, viable in lots of different situations, both PVP and PVE.
That people don’t want to use the tools given to them by the game is a completely different story, but the tools for party buffing and support are there.
i was talking about dedicated roles
Umm, yeah, you can’t have a “soft trinity”. You either have the trinity, or you don’t. Ever tried to support your teammates with a heal in GW2? It doesn’t work well enough to be worth your while. They went straight for all DPS, and there is no doubt about it.
And I mean that GW2 lacks collaboration because there is no trinity. Sure, we can work together to kill the enemy by creating different strategies, but our characters don’t support each other. All we’re doing is finding a more efficient strategy to defeat the enemy together. I hope that makes sense.
By ‘soft trinity’ I mean roles that change in the flow of combat. That is, you don’t just stay as one role, and roles aren’t strict (Control and Support can easily blend into one on occasions, depending on the situation). A perfect example of this is going from damaging the enemy to reviving an ally that has been downed.
So you’re saying without hard, defined roles, there isn’t any way to have a system where you can support your allies? Because I can think of a number of different scenarios where you can support your allies without having the Trinity:
- CC’ing an enemy that is heading towards an ally in trouble (downed, low on health, heal on CD)
- Giving damage reduction boons (Protection, Regen, Vigor)
- Clearing conditions
- Reviving allies
- Taking my CoF example, swapping with an ally when stacks get too high.
How are these sorts of things not supporting your allies?
i wanted to butt in and say those examples you’ve give are the sorts of things I’d like to see more of in this game. but they are not well supported by the game currently. reviving allies is a given and barely worth mentioning btw. something to think about however, is that if these aspects were made more viable, then would a trinity (or more plainly in English: an allocation of roles, whatever those roles may be) form? “you take some cc and be a dedicated resser/supporter/ccer” or whatever
they should really just be removed, but don’t mind me…
i can help you out
just please please not the 4 person hard mode missions in proph
It kinda seems like they took a step back with the AI
what an understatement
Also making the game become a pay-to-win game instead of a buy-to-play game.
it isn’t already?
It doesn’t add anymore strategy to the combat. Regardless, you’ll still have cooldowns. Someone mentioned initiative, it’s balanced there because it isn’t something you have to manage. It manages itself for the most part. If it required strict planning and skill usage and very limited circumstances to regain initiative back, it would actually be strategic. It doesn’t prevent spamming, it encourages passive recovery.
the skills in gw2 are balanced primarily around cooldowns. if there would be an energy component, then the skills could have reduced cool downs, and appropriate energy costs ranging from cheap to very expensive. so far so good, i don’t think i’ve lost anyone.
where is the strategy? if you have reduced cooldowns you can option to use an expensive skill more frequently. you might do this because you are about to kill an enemy and you need that extra last push to get the job done. this decision has an impact you will feel soon afterwards, where your energy has been drained and you are now less effective, especially if you had misjudged the situation and the enemy is still alive. if there are only the cooldowns, then the decision is simplified to be basically: is this damage skill off cooldown? if yes, use it.
there is still some depth to using cooldown based skills, since you still need to plan utility skills. there would be more strategy involved as well, if damage skills had added benefits from certain conditions being met, but that is not the case.
(edited by milo.6942)
It’s broken in parties.
Every other stat in the game benefits the entire party in some way or another. You either kill the enemy better, or you prevent the party from dying. Magicfind is a stat that disadvantages the entire party due to sub-par stats and only benefits YOU.
it really boggles the mind they thought it was a good idea to add this stat in the first place
i keep telling people: gw2 is not gw1 sequel — it is a standard mmo with a thin coat of gw
really? replays would make gw2 an esport? lol
but anyway, i recall a discussion by the gameplay programmer evan lesh i believe, who was explaining why spectator mode was so limited, and why they couldn’t have observer mode that was viewable by all players like in gw1, and he said essentially it’s because they don’t have the capability to “record” the game state in such a way that the game could “play it back” efficiently. that’s why spectator mode is based on players actually being in the server. and i think this is why replays are not possible currently. he said it would be very technically difficult to implement it, and that it wasn’t high on their priority list.
I think Anet originally wanted to take a different approach to PvP in general, and were apprehensive about implementing a punishment system in an attempt to create a different PvP environment. They wanted to make it less about rules and more about fun, but the players have proven that people, especially gamers, only respond positively in a gaming environment to punishment, and therefore (although late in the process) they are now implementing a system that will make players stay (read: suffer through) a match that isn’t going their way, or to not be AFK when a match starts.
Basically, they gave players the benefit of the doubt and were let down with the result, so now they’re going about implementing the system a little late in the process.
that’s interesting
but it’s more likely they simply didn’t have the resources to flesh out the game before launching. i heard in an interview about the last fight with zhaitan that it was so bad because they were so close to deadline and had to ship so they threw that together right fast. if they were scrambling to get the personal story finished, imagine how pvp must have been left behind
So you want daily-pve-achivment-doers quee to normal tournaments – afk half match or leave when they done with daily? Another great idea! I am in!
I’m talking about unranked matches substituting hotjoin. Not removing hotjoin completely without a substitute.
yes but how are they going to take our money from tournies
having custom arenas fund hotjoin servers was a great business move, why would they give it up?
gw2 is shallow because of limited skill pool and an emphasis on stats instead of skill selection. it is a dps race in pve. difficulty is not directly related to shallowness, since a boss can have 3 million hp.
got to say, galen is really working overtime in here trying to turn analogies on their heads to justify his arguments. someone should get this guy an extra lollipop
Mana management forces you to play your UI instead of the game. It’s another layer that makes your game more complex, but not better.
i’ve heard this since before gw2 was even released, and i thought it would be a great thing, but in practice it is actually really negligible. what i mean is, aren’t you already looking at your ui frequently? don’t you need to know when certain skills come off cooldown? don’t you need to see what your health is? thieves have an energy system that you need to look at your ui to manage, how is that any different? it really feels like a false claim and i think this argument that you are “forced to play your ui instead of the game” with an energy system attempts to fix a perceived problem but it really does nothing of the sort. we only lose gameplay depth. if that is what you wanted then it could be a good thing, but don’t misunderstand the situation.
In the transition from GW1 to GW2, they traded complex skill interactions for active combat. In my opinion the active combat is shallow compared to the old system. Faster paced perhaps and easier to attempt balance, but far less depth.
yea and if you look at it what is this “active combat”?
- cast while moving
- frequent invulnerability jumps
- no energy
And that’s it. I don’t really say it in a negative sense, these can be fun things. there are positive and negative aspects i think. for the negative aspects i think it can be summarized as: there is less risk involved
- you lose the consideration of movement vs casting
- you can trivialize any attack
- no consequence for mindless spamming
There is a lot less risk and there is not much reward for playing well.
another issue is there are rarely any interesting combos of skills. most skills simply do damage in different ways. very few “conditionals” such as “if enemy is x then this skill does y” where x is some effect that you or a teammate can set up and y is some very desirable outcome.
If you’re not depending on your teammates then what are they there for?
It depends to what extent the dependance leads to.
From my perspective, I like to get things done via being flexible and self-reliant. Waiting for someone to heal me or protect me or needing to rely CC, stun-locks or interrupts to succeed comes with its own drawbacks:
1. It limits group config. Some encounters, suddenly you need melees who can stand against extreme damage so your light-armor stealth bursters have no place. Other encounters, you need high CC to keep foes in place and interrupts to keep foe action limited so much support goes on the bench. Encounters putting a meter stick to your group healing means you have to have it. Bundle it all together and you’re pretty much predetermining exactly what you’re going to do.
2. Repetitive boredom. Sorry, I have minor ADD, but I can’t be arsed watching health bars all kitten ed day…or cycling attack chains over and over…or spamming buffs. It’s cool to do every now and again to fill in a hole, but sometimes I like to swap and mix it up.
3. Punishes generalists. The more specialized your tactics become the less wanted generalists are. Those are the guys that can still do damage, throw out some spot support/healing, snare the enemy for a short time, etc. They are obsolete in your situations because you’re going to have particular team members fulfilling those roles full time.
I’m sure there are other points, but this is all my opinion. I do want tactics, advanced play and combos. I do not want holy trinity. If City of Heroes could let you succeed with all tankers or obliterate with all blasters or mix all offense with no support or roll over everything with all support or generally let you mix and match and play off each other’s strengths, I feel this game could do the same. That is, they can make support and CC and healing more substantial in the game but by no means would success hinge on it. Merely how that success would be achieved.
If I were suggesting ideas, it would likely start with combo fields and finishers as well as how the enemy utilizes them.
to summarize my points since i feel i’ve been wandering off topic: combat is boring because it’s not challenging. managing energy presents a challenge. being an important part of a team presents a challenge. relying on your teammates presents a challenge. i mention gw1 so often because it did many things right, and you have consistently misrepresented it. gw1 was a team based game. gw2 is a game where you attack things next to others. also as others have touched on, the way the content is presented is boring and isn’t very challenging.
so fill in the blank here: In gw2 if I don’t ______ then my team wipes out. We can even use this in pve.
I don’t get it. You want the team to pivot at one point or break? How does that make the game better?
If that’s what you mean, I’ll just say that’d make the game tedious, if anything. Tedious because you would have to find that pivot point for everyone to turn on and if that pivot point was slow and weak, he would cause everyone to fail. Having everyone fail because they didn’t to a specific task is not fun and punishes players who are skilled at what they do.
I could be the greatest melee fighter ever and yet I get killed because the healer lagged? That’s not fun for me at all.
it’s not about a single “pivot point”, if every player isn’t pulling their weight do you think you should still win?
let me give you a few more examples to get you started
If I don’t interrupt that shame my team wipes.
If I don’t clear that blind my team wipes.
If I don’t keep this warrior slowed my team wipes.
If I don’t catch this spike in under a second my team wipes.
here is another fun variation you can try
If I don’t knock lock their prot my team can’t get a kill.
If I don’t divert that Restore Condition my team can’t get a kill.
If I don’t Distracting Shot that Word of Healing my team can’t get a kill.
If I don’t coordinate a fake spike on a target to bait their protection monk’s prots to then call a proper spike my team can’t get a kill.
If I don’t remove empathy from my warrior my team can’t get a kill.
If you’re not depending on your teammates then what are they there for?
I understood what you had written. Which was why I included the sentence:
there were still many skills they had which were staples in gameplay that needed energy and they often would need to consider if they had too many energy-based skills in their build.
The relative performance of a warrior with only adrenal skills vs one with some energy skills is not something you can comment on, since you have no knowledge of this subject. But I will tell you anyway: warriors required a few key skills that used energy.
Apparently you’re ignoring parts of sentences, particularly the part where I said warriors don’t need energy (hint: I DIDN’T SAY THAT!).
I don’t understand what your point is, but I can advise you not to discuss things based on hearsay.
I’m only agreeing with points brought up by people that brought up a relevant point. I base my discussion on knowledge, not hearsay. City of Heroes had an energy based system, which is what I’m basing my knowledge on. Just that someone mentioned Monks and Warriors on Guild Wars bumping heads because a player of that game mentioned it is why it was brought up.
There is some depth to pvp. There is knowing what meta builds there are, what they are capable of, and what their standard tactics are. Once you know this you are 50% of the way to the game’s skill ceiling. The next 50% consists of knowing when and where to send your teammates to assault points or retreat. That is the beginning and the end of all pvp in this game. You rarely need to understand what the enemy is doing outside of who it is they are focusing their damage on and watching for when they split off. The combat is designed so that it’s very difficult for a team to support each other because 1) support is so lacking and 2) damages can be so quick there’s no time to save your teammate (even if you could do something).
AAAAAND again….need I remind you much of what I’m discussing is PvE primarily because that is what the main meat of the thread topic is.
AAAAAAAND again…players that aren’t experts (i.e. they are playing characters, not metas), there is plenty of depth to combat.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAND again…do I have to keep doing this?
it’s actually very simple. it’s very easy for a new player to over heal/prot a target, and to use more energy than was necessary. if you run out of energy before the enemy team’s monk runs out of energy, your teammates start dying.
Right, that’s pretty much every old-style MMO holy trinity game. Played it back when with FFXI, still a horrid time draining mechanic. In that game, you REALLY had to manage MP but that didn’t make things more cerebral, it just shifted concern to how your can regain the energy back ASAP. It’s a gating mechanic hardly different from just cooldowns (except even these game require cooldowns on spells, so…). Also played it with CoH but at least in that game, you didn’t need a healer, monk, debuffs or whatever although you could grab something like that and have an easier time with content. Again, it’s gating content by time constraints measure in endurance recovery.
I know how energy systems work in MMOs, I’m asking about why the mechanic seems more suited to complex combat for you and/or how that relates to making GW2 improve in complexity and depth.
I guess this is just my attempt to round the subject back to relating to GW2.
ok then, in gw1 if you were playing a monk and you didn’t manage your energy correctly, watch the field, pre prot, clear your frontline and watch the enemy mesmers/rangers your team would die. bad play was punished. energy was a way of punishing bad play. so fill in the blank here: In gw2 if I don’t ______ then my team wipes out. We can even use this in pve.
mate, you make assumptions way too comfortably about a game you never played. non magic professions didn’t need energy?…
…to perform well. Read what people say and not what you think they said. And from what the wiki says:
“….Some skills do not use Energy. Instead, they use adrenaline…”:“http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Adrenaline”
I understood what you had written. Which was why I included the sentence:
there were still many skills they had which were staples in gameplay that needed energy and they often would need to consider if they had too many energy-based skills in their build.
The relative performance of a warrior with only adrenal skills vs one with some energy skills is not something you can comment on, since you have no knowledge of this subject. But I will tell you anyway: warriors required a few key skills that used energy.
Anyway again, I’m going by what others are saying and what was mentioned was professions like monk using most of their energy fell at odds with professions like Warriors who built up adrenaline and require the continued acquisition of adrenaline to keep it.
I don’t understand what your point is, but I can advise you not to discuss things based on hearsay.
Also, I wasn’t even talking about PvP. This is all with respect to NPCs and PvE. If we were talking about PvP, then you don’t know what you’re talking about. There’s decent amount of depth to PvP to keep non-experts busy for a while but the more skilled you are, the less involved it is to counter less skilled opponents and groups.
There is some depth to pvp. There is knowing what meta builds there are, what they are capable of, and what their standard tactics are. Once you know this you are 50% of the way to the game’s skill ceiling. The next 50% consists of knowing when and where to send your teammates to assault points or retreat. That is the beginning and the end of all pvp in this game. You rarely need to understand what the enemy is doing outside of who it is they are focusing their damage on and watching for when they split off. The combat is designed so that it’s very difficult for a team to support each other because 1) support is so lacking and 2) damages can be so quick there’s no time to save your teammate (even if you could do something).
Still don’t see the complexity of the monk. Timing skill use is something inherent to this game too. ‘Managing’ energy is only a complexity if it can actually be exhausted and if it can be exhausted, there are bound to be players who complain about being ‘required’ to manage it just to be able to perform skills. I guarantee it. If no complaints exist, then likely your system requires so little management that it’s nearly non-existant to the complexity of play.
Do go on about how the system works though. So far though, you haven’t convinced anyone that such a system is universally sound or would fit this particular game in any way.
it’s actually very simple. it’s very easy for a new player to over heal/prot a target, and to use more energy than was necessary. if you run out of energy before the enemy team’s monk runs out of energy, your teammates start dying.