Guild Wars 2

Tsezar.6950:

15 sec cd wouldnt make any difference as i said it needs at least 45 seconds

yeah u are right all other runes that give u access to another classes skill or condition, has a very big icd. but honestly i would change the 6/6 to confusion dmg increase and not buff interrupts at all with it. being interrupted is already punishing enough, so if u cant use any skill after being interrupted is too much and sry anet, but this 6/6 part of the rune is a complete design balance failure!

Ntranced.7415:

I’m sure Anet have stats on average numbers through different times of the day, would it be too much to ask to have alliances in some way taking in to account the numbers and the times they are playing?

Otherwise you might just as well start everyone from 0 ranking. By the time the league comes around everyone will have moved and most of the current rankings will be worthless. Simply forget the league idea and put in the achievements, I think that is mainly what this update is for anyway – I doubt most will lost sleep over a custom finished. This is WvW after all, not PVE.

well, if they have all the numbers,why not try to implement alliances for the leagues. the leagues will be complete nonsense, because we all know the outcome of every match up.
having alliances, that balances the matchups for the league would actually make wvw competitive and bring fresh air. tier 1 servers are too stacked atm, so the only way out for all other tiers is balance population with alliances.

Tsezar.6950:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

What should be done:

10 second cool down on 6/6 Or Replace with 25% Damage Increase

AND

Remove and replace the warrior Trait that gives 6 stacks of Confusion on Interrupt

dont knoww what you are talking about but warrior trait only gives 4 stacks on interrrupt… and 10 sec cd on 6/6 runes wont be enough must be at least 45 sec

yeah its 4 stacks per interrupt, but i agree with armagedon ash. 6/6 has to be changed either a 15 sec icd or replace ther interruption part with 25% confusion dmg. interrupt are already strong as they are, adding 5 stacks of confusion to it makes them completely broken. these runes are supposed to be a support for confusion classes, not interrupt classes!

Le Rooster.8715:

selan.8354:

what a great idea! i would love to have alliances. there are servers out there that id love to team up with. some lower tier servers have a great spirit and an alliance with a t2,t3 server would be amazing.
i agree with the issue in na. sor/bg/jq will fight for gold and it will be between bg and sor. jq and tc are similar in coverage, then right after we got db and then us(fa).

the tiers are very screwed up atm:
as we have 2 monster servers and pretty much 4 tier 1 servers, 2 tier 2 servers, then like 4 tier 3 servers.

coverage wise it looks a little like this(sry only included servers i’ve fought over the past 6 months):

tier 1
sor and bg

tier 1.5:
jq and tc

tier 2
FA

tier 2.5
DB

tier 3
sos
mag

tier 4
Ehmry
CD
SBI
Borlis

so alliances with a low tier server would be great. i would love to team up with some of the servers out there …or even have an alliance with an t6-8 server. that could spice things up!
tier 1 servers are pretty fine atm, but fa for example is stuch in the middle between t2 and t3. we are too strong for t3 and too weak to beat db or tc as both of them have a semi t1 coverage.
tier 3 servers and tier 4, t5 servers alliances, t2 with t7 and t8 servers. etc. all depending on coverage. anet could measure how many people each server has on during which timezones and create alliances like that to match tier 1 servers. or something like that. this would fix the already predictable outcome of the leagues and prevent mass transfers to top tier servers.

Fixed it up for you =)

Common misconception, just apply a little bit of pressure on Dragonbrand and they crumble.

still db have a giant sea coverage, which is our weakest time slot. so db is still above fa. but db and fa are way closer than tc/fa

what a great idea! i would love to have alliances. there are servers out there that id love to team up with. some lower tier servers have a great spirit and an alliance with a t2,t3 server would be amazing.
i agree with the issue in na. sor/bg/jq will fight for gold and it will be between bg and sor. jq and tc are similar in coverage, then right after we got db and then us(fa).

the tiers are very screwed up atm:
as we have 2 monster servers and pretty much 4 tier 1 servers, 2 tier 2 servers, then like 4 tier 3 servers.

coverage wise it looks a little like this(sry only included servers i’ve fought over the past 6 months):

tier 1
sor and bg

tier 1.5:
jq and tc

tier 2
db

tier 2.5
fa

tier 3
sos
mag
cd
ebay

so alliances with a low tier server would be great. i would love to team up with some of the servers out there …or even have an alliance with an t6-8 server. that could spice things up!
tier 1 servers are pretty fine atm, but fa for example is stuch in the middle between t2 and t3. we are too strong for t3 and too weak to beat db or tc as both of them have a semi t1 coverage.
tier 3 servers and tier 4, t5 servers alliances, t2 with t7 and t8 servers. etc. all depending on coverage. anet could measure how many people each server has on during which timezones and create alliances like that to match tier 1 servers. or something like that. this would fix the already predictable outcome of the leagues and prevent mass transfers to top tier servers.

still getting that error too

oh well, this is what happens when anet buffs and nerfs around spvp only. and guess whaaat, they will buff warriors shouts too. yay!warriors are out of control atm, while anything that has ai is left out and certain classes pushed to the bottom, while necro/warriors,guardians and thieves rule wvw.
engis and eles are still pretty fine.
rangers and mesmers are mainly used for utilities.
ty spvp balance!its soooooo awesome that anet balances a zergfight around a 1v1 based game mode without siege + foodbuffs.

Arheundel.6451:

selan.8354:

Jamais vu.5284:

They really are forgetting WvW is PvP too.
That means you are playing against other players.
That means you are playing against other meta du jour builds.
That means a potential buff has not only repercussions in sPvP play, but also WvW.
Ele staff in WvW is already extremely strong, I don’t see how they can buff it without making blobs and stacking even more ridiculous. Obviously staves aren’t in sPvP because of the nature of the universally disliked Conquest game mode.
Well, Conquest is only one part of GW2, and even disregarding WvW (and PvE) balance, if sPvP is ever expanded to other game modes you can’t still solely balance around Conquest.

WvW = distant third fiddle at ArenaNet.

^this very much. the thing is, that whoever has the most aoe skills, the most multitargeting skills and is tanky and has great heals, dominates in wvw. ai is useless in a zerg.thats why rangers are barely used in wvw(no wonder, their pet dies in like 3 seconds) and same with mesmers. our main dmg is coming from ai (clones shatter and phantasms)now we are stuck and only used for our support utilities (tw,veil,portal,massinvis and nullfield).

also u barely see mm necros for the very same reason.

and now they wanna buff warriors shouts and staff eles. staff ele is in agreat spot in wvw and warriors are the meta and op. these buff is gonna be a disaster in wvw like the ac buff was!

anet needs to split spvp balance from wvw balance. its not fun to be stuck as a duelist that is great from 1v1 and roaming. i wanna join the groupfight too and be able to tag and kill multiple targets. im tired of veiling warriors and tw them so they can get their kills and lootbag whil i portal their golems….

What staff eles are good for in WvWvW? To give you perma swiftness with static field and arcane wave? To cast water field on the zombie zerg?

Well I don’t give a kitten of healing and support others 24/7, on occasions it may be ok but I don’t want to be stuck in that role all day long..fact is the staff is the only 1200 range for eles

So here are the options for you:

1) Go play a staff support ele build yorself
2) Give me ( and other eles ) another 1200 range weapon like the mesmer greatsword
3) Take out the water fields from staff and give to another profession ( yours maybe?)

In the end of the day Anet was crystal clear in not wanting healers in their game or anybody being forced in the backline at all times, so yeah I couldn’t care less that zergs use staff eles in wvwvw for the water fields and perma swiftness, the profession I love is not your kitten lapdog this goes for all WvWvW players saying staff eles are strong

i actually do play a staff ele. was my first main. well idk, but u got a lot of multitarget skils, which we lack. u want my gs range, have it!it hits most of the time only 1 target.
but at least u got great aoes that can shred people and siege. u have good ranged attacks and i get hit by many ele aoe’s on walls and in zergs.
yes u are used as a healer too, static field and all that stuff and commanders willl even demand waterfields,firefields and all that and this is where i agree with u. u should not be downgraded as a healer/support for the warrior/guardian/necro trains. eles are in a good spot still, but there is of course space for improvements and buffs.the only thing that concerns me is the way anet has buffed things in the past.

linfurong.9032:

CLASSY BG. REALLY CLASSY.

oh well i expected that facing 2 tier 1 servers at once, we might gonna face that eventually as we dont have the coverage, but i gotta say, im having a lot of fun so far. (and btw there are a lot of other exits)
yup bg has some crazy numbers but we arent afraid to go ninja smc or a randomly picked tower(or at least try it just for the fun of it). skilllag sucks though.idk how u guys deal with it for so long.

Gorni.1764:

it’s because team blue had an ele in their ranks

and a mesmer

Jamais vu.5284:

They really are forgetting WvW is PvP too.
That means you are playing against other players.
That means you are playing against other meta du jour builds.
That means a potential buff has not only repercussions in sPvP play, but also WvW.
Ele staff in WvW is already extremely strong, I don’t see how they can buff it without making blobs and stacking even more ridiculous. Obviously staves aren’t in sPvP because of the nature of the universally disliked Conquest game mode.
Well, Conquest is only one part of GW2, and even disregarding WvW (and PvE) balance, if sPvP is ever expanded to other game modes you can’t still solely balance around Conquest.

WvW = distant third fiddle at ArenaNet.

^this very much. the thing is, that whoever has the most aoe skills, the most multitargeting skills and is tanky and has great heals, dominates in wvw. ai is useless in a zerg.thats why rangers are barely used in wvw(no wonder, their pet dies in like 3 seconds) and same with mesmers. our main dmg is coming from ai (clones shatter and phantasms)now we are stuck and only used for our support utilities (tw,veil,portal,massinvis and nullfield).

also u barely see mm necros for the very same reason.

and now they wanna buff warriors shouts and staff eles. staff ele is in agreat spot in wvw and warriors are the meta and op. these buff is gonna be a disaster in wvw like the ac buff was!

anet needs to split spvp balance from wvw balance. its not fun to be stuck as a duelist that is great from 1v1 and roaming. i wanna join the groupfight too and be able to tag and kill multiple targets. im tired of veiling warriors and tw them so they can get their kills and lootbag whil i portal their golems….

Volrath.1473:

E-sports they say… With 3 pvp devs?!… Lets face it, sPvP is gone! On a saturday at prime tine in EU soloQ tournaments take forever to pop. No one is playing sPvP atm…
- terrible class balance
- no build variety
- conquest mod has become boring as hell
- worse meta ever
- devs talk alot but do nothing relevant

I’m going wvwvw only since I hate pve… It’s either that or simply play something else… There are some good looking games on the horizon.

good luck with that as the amaaaaazing spvp balance destroyed wvw balance. hope u are a warrior,necro, guardian or thief. the meta that was created by not balancing spvp and wvw separately created an even worse meta in wvw.
all u see is warriors, warriors and even more warriors(either hammertrains or stunlock), guardiantrains (massretal), necros, that can prettymuch deny an entire zerg the entrance into a keep due to mass necromarks,mass fear, mass conditionbomb and a ton of thieves that melt 20k hp in 4 seconds.
then u got eles that are pretty good there atm, engi have been seen more often lately due to perplexity runes, mesmers are slowly fading into nothingness and are in zergs manly used for veils and tw and then there is rangers…well they are there, but i see barely any lately as they lack like mesmers viable zerg builds(in mesmers case, we got no aoe as clones and phantasms die too quick and a rangerpet melts in 2 seconds)

so yeah meta in wvw will get worse soon with the next spvp buffs.great another 3 months of being a veilbot ty anet!

yup guilty.did that a couple of times XD

yup and the joke is, that your bank will fill up with stacks after stacks, because u cant store more than 250 in the crafting slots which is imo ridiculous.

well the problem is though that mesmers will be balanced on the spvp mesmer, which is not what a wvw mesmer needs.we are great in spvp without the condi spam meta, but i play wvw mainly and not the roaming type. i face a lot of zergfights and atm i feel a little weak as all a commander wants me to do is veil his warriors and guardians,portal and tw his golems and massinvis his warriors while casting nullfield for his warriors…
we lack aoe dmg as our clones die before reaching the zerg and phantasms dont last long enough. the only time i felt strong was during glam times….but since the nerf we havent gotten much mutitarget skills back….

they also mentioned buffing warrior shouts…..again great for spvp, terrible for wvw
they wanna buff staff ele=terrible for wvw
im also worried about our condition builds, they are already not that great compared to other classes….

lets hope we get new tools to play with, so we arent forced into phantasm/shatter builds that arent that great in wvw.

Nary Why Irk.8150:

If you dont like the game you can always buy a monkey and give him some bananas and tell us if you feel better

i dont think the issue is that we dont like it. we do care about it otherwise why bother with the forums?
i care about the game, but its starting to get boring and is a shame as anet does have the potential to make things better.

for me balance is a big one. i feel weak in wvw atm with my mesmer, so i started to play spvp more and gotta say, yes in spvp i feel stronger, but the imbalance that anet creates by not splitting the game modes, makes me feel stuck with my mesmer in wvw. we are great in spvp, but in wvw if we are not roamers, we are support only in zergs. that pushes me away from the game. if they give mesmers more mutitargeting skills in wvw and bring us back to being a strong fighter in zergs, it will make me wanna play more again.
there is nothing more discouraging than if u play your class and meet another class that can do everything u can, but better and u melt in seconds. u have 1v1 vs warrior in wvw and he keeps healing to full life, stunlocking u to death and u cant even run away. and then u respawn and meet a thief that melts 20k hp in 4 seconds. u find 2 guardians hiding in the water in your keep and 6 people cannot kill them as they are too tough and heal eachother consistantly. u finally get a gate down and u meet 20 necromarks that instakill u and your friends u get chainfeared off a cliff, engineers can perma lock u in a spot while inflicting massive dmg and 25 stacks of confusion for 15 seconds…..
yeah balance is a big big thing for many players out there. i dont wanna be forced to use warrior or make a necro only because spvp prevents my class from getting buffs, because it is s-class in dueling!

Iplaytokill.1674:

Great. So how does ANet write this?

-PVE Update
-PVE
-PVE
-PVE
-WvW
-PVE
-PVE
-PVE
-PVE
-PVE
-PVE
-PVE
-PVE
-PVE
-PVE
-PVE
-PVE
-PVE
-PVE
-PVE
-PVE
-PVE
-PVE

?!!?

pretty much this. actually u guys in spvp can be happy u got at least a few maps since launch.wvw has not gotten much in that department at all. 3 bl maps that are the same, 1 eb mab. we got masteries that create major issues(best example the ac buff…o.0)
and anet doesnt wanna split spvp class balance and wvw balance, which creates terrible metas. right now warriors, guardian trains and then necros that can instagib an entire zerg, while mesmers are locked into duelist and have to serve as tw/veil bots. then they bring out unbalanced perplexity runes, major skill lag where all u can press is 111111….. but hey look at this new living story.
spvp population is slowly dying out,but hey look we got those new ascended weapons, oh but if u want it u need laurels and grind mats in pve, but hey look at this new living story content.

how about balancing spvp, and then balance wvw separately( dont buff staff eles in wvw please, and warriors are already out of control, so if u buff shouts, wvw will become a nightmare)

Dat skill lag o.0
woah so this is t1 lag. how do u guys deal with it?! 11111111 and i think my 6 botton is broken now XD

Grav.3568:

If WvWers have to be spammed about PvE invasions, then PvErs should be spammed about enemy WvW zergs. It’s only fair.

yeah couldnt agree more. how about a huge news flash. hey,garisson is under attack,click here to port for assistance.

oi. bg and jq!!!!well, good luck everyone…we need it XD.awww too bad no dolyakparde to kill this week though :-(

Player Character.9467:

selan.8354:

Player Character.9467:

selan.8354:

Red Falcon.8257:

skillionaire.3574:

Only thing that needs changing imo is the skullcrack from 3 to 2 secs, match it with the earthshaker that’s already 2 sec stun.

How about you slot Stability instead.

Stability is the most fundamental PvP boon, if you run without it you are begging to die.

erm as a mesmers i gotta ask…which stability? the mantra one?try using a mantra in a fight. plus being stunlocked to death there wont be time to react with anything at all. so mesmers have no counter to a cc warrior at all.

except just blinking away…

lol u know that blink has a long cd and the range is pretty pathetic, plus in wvw a lot of people replace blink with a stunbreaker, condition remover and feedback.or we are forced to bring veil, ore portal with us.so yeah blink is not a viable argument. u can catch up with us way easier after blink is used.remember our movement speed is crap…

You want wvw balanced 1v1? lol

actually i want wvw not balanced on spvp as this is the problem atm. what is strong in 1v1 is probably bad in wvw zergfights.

actually i’ve seen more thieves in zergs recently. but it used to be them just roaming and gate taging. now i see them more active.

u probably put mesmer in a higher sport, because again of our utility. the utility is fine, but shouldnt be the only thing that we can do. only veiling, portaling and tw’ping is not fun.

oZii.2864:

selan.8354:

wvw is dominated by 4 classes atm and the list for groupfights(not roaming, as roaming is more like spvp and thats where anet screws up, because they mainly raom when testing out wvw):
s class
warrior
necro
guardian
thief

b class
ele
engineer

c class
mesmer
ranger

after the next buffs it will be
sclass
warrior
ele
guardian
necro

a class
thief
engineer

c class
mesmer
ranger

if we had a balancing system foe wvw only, wvw would maybe become fun for all of us again. but spvp is ruining it for us!

ugh your list is fail because you aren’t specific. If you are trying to imply this is your list overall for everything WvW related then it is total fail.

There are so many things you can do in WvW your list holds no weight because it is automatically becomes incorrect as soon as you start naming specific activities that occur daily in WvW.

Dueling
Solo-Roaming
GvG
Taking Keeps and Towers
Karma Train
Small Man group roaming(not looking for objectives just fights)
Small Man roaming flipping camps
Zerg busting

Your list doesn’t align up with any of those correctly with those activities that take place everyday in WvW.

Your still upset about the perplexity runes it seems. Mesmers are going to get some help dealing with condis and you put them in C class after patch? Get real.

perplexity is not the issue. im talking about wvw and stated not the roaming type balance. i stated that this is the zvz,gvg openfield and yes taking keeps and towers, and defending it.

dueling=spvp builds and in spvp we are fine.
roaming=like spvp,we are fine
these activities are not the ones i include in my list

zergbusting?nope mesmers arent(and dont evn try to put this in aood mesmers light by mentioning, welll u got portal.
gvg:veilbots, massinvis, tw
zvz: same
taking tower: pulling, portal, tw, massinivs, veil
keep:pulling, tw, massinvis,veil

notice something? no dmg, all support

i put them in c-class, because if u have watched to latest SOTG u would know that eles and warriors get buffs. and my list again is strictly based on my experiance in openfield fights, zvz,gvg, defending and capping. i dont lieroaming and its not what i do. perplexity will get nerfed, so thats not my issue atm. the issue is spvp!
and yes rangers are in a bad spot atm..actually always have been.

BlackBeard.2873:

HPLT.7132:

J. Sharp best ele world.

I lol’ed so hard.

The toughest thing about their balance discussion is the confusion between class and spec. When people ask about ele being stuck on its knees for so long, the devs think “oh the s/d spec that has a ton of instant damage! That spec can be powerful if they don’t have to fight a class like necro/spirit-ranger/s-d thief”

However, when people ask about ele, they don’t mean the poor-man’s magic-thief with less survivability. They mean the class more like the d/d or other blanced-type spec that had good survivability and decent sustained damage (not asking to go back to the full-bunker spec, just something closer to that). The sustain has been obliterated (decreased healing, cleanse, stun-breaks, and destroyed mobility) and ele now has almost no survivability in pvp/wvw, even in the most-defensive spec. You will not see anything other than a support build or a stupid pseudo-thief (and then why not just take BS theif) build until the current amount of sustain is more accessible and/or the damage capabilities are buffed in some way.

yeah agree with u. the balance team is kinda superficial like that. i mention mesmer and everyone in spvp thinks of 2 cheese builds(phantasm/shatter). it is true mesmers have a lot of tools to be s-class in spvp. we got stealths,blink, phantasms, shatters, but the thing is, this only works well in a 1v1 situation, but is terrible in wvw! clones die before they reach the target, phantasms fail a lot. we cant go glass at all as apart from roaming(that s a little like spvp) there is a ton of siege, tons of conditions, mass cc, mass cleansing and of course warriors do well as they have good dps, good toughness, good swiftness, good, cleansing, great stability, great healing, great aoe dmg. mesmers got…portal, veil, tw and massinvis(all passive, all not damaging, all just a utility to support warriors)
same with ele. all they see is d/d spec, but because they have aoe, they can at least tag in a zerg and take down siege.
honestly, i wish they nerf phantasm and shatterer to kitten if this is what it takes to give us more buffs and options for gvg zvz.

well, because anet buffs and nerfs around spvp. the gaps between classes willl become even bigger. right now after watching state of the game stream, i have very little hope for a good balance in wvw. mesmers are still mainly used for portal,veil and tw.apart from that we are rock bottom in zerg fights. reason for that is, that our aoe comes from clones and phantasms, that die way to quick in a zerg. we have some nice support tools, but those tools are already taken by other classes that can use them better and easier than we can. problem is the duelist issue that makes us (if not in condition meta) very much a-s class in spvp. everyone tells us:“but mesmers have this awesome utility.veil, porta,massinvis, tw!” well guess what, they are all support and not everyone wants to be a support utility slot! thats like forcing someone to be the healer, without him getting rewards for it!

warriors will see even more buffs, because lets be honest, they used to suck in spvp, but always were very strong in wvw. now they are already op and after they buff the shouts will be beyond godmode in wvw. seriously if anet doesnt separate the gamemode balancing, wvw will soon become a nightmare in terms of balance.

wvw is dominated by 4 classes atm and the list for groupfights(not roaming, as roaming is more like spvp and thats where anet screws up, because they mainly raom when testing out wvw):
s class
warrior
necro
guardian
thief

b class
ele
engineer

c class
mesmer
ranger

after the next buffs it will be
sclass
warrior
ele
guardian
necro

a class
thief
engineer

c class
mesmer
ranger

if we had a balancing system foe wvw only, wvw would maybe become fun for all of us again. but spvp is ruining it for us!

well i see the next disaster already coming. warriors get their shouts buffed….they are already op in wvw, now they will be godmode. other classes wont see buffs as anet only balances around a 1v1 situation which is soooooo wrong…..
honestly from a 1v1 perspective, once the condi meta is nerfed, mesmers will be strong again(if not s tier), but only in 1v1. we are bottom tier in wvw atm, because of anets spvp only balance system.
honestly, it looks like there is no hope fore a viable wvw mesmer anymore. we are stuck because of spvp.
ill give u all my phantasms,clones and moas, if this is what it takes to move mesmers away from veil/portal/tw. seriously take it all, have it, destroy it and give me something i can use in a wvw zergfight!or give me glamour back! being a utility slot and a 1v1 duelist is not fun in teamplay,gvg or zergfights!

erm most of the balance isnt affecting pve. they balance pve separately. pve is way better off than wvw as spvp balance is destroying wvw for example. here the issues:

so warrior needed a buff in spvp, as they were pretty awful there. anet gives them a lot of buffs and now they are op in wvw.they are out of control. and they wanna buff them even more!!check out the spvp forums and u know which classes will get buffs again.

mesmers are amazing in dueling and a jack of all traits in dueling, but we are very very limited in wvw. clones die to fast(=no aoe dmg because shatters fail), the builds that are great in spvp, are terrible in wvw. now we have a hard time to tag, if we wanna be able to deal dmg, we will have no toughness, we have no clear role in wvw apart from portal/veil and tw bots. its a mess and as mesmer is my main this is discouraging. but we wont get buffs because of kitten spvp. stupid 1v1 balance screws mesmer the most, as we are great duelers. this is not balance anet!!!

then ele is not in a good spot in spvp, but in a pretty decent spot in wvw. now they wanna buff staff ele…..great new wvw meta coming up!

necro is out of control in spvp and wvw, but before the buff because of again kitten spvp, they were already strong in wvw. now they are op faceroll class.

thief, is amazing in 1v1 and in wvw roaming they are pretty op, but not taken seriously in a zerg. they wont get buffs or nerfs at the right places, because again spvp.

balancing around 1v1 is so wrong anet!!!!!wake up!

yup thats an issue. im worried that the na servers sor,jq,bg,db and tc will become overpopulated, while other servers will lose a lot of their population.

Have No Faith In Me.1840:

I guess the precursors were charity for not being able to type properly, or correct it before hitting post.

…..

first off wanna congratulate the op and im not gonna lie=im really jealous that u got the coolest precursors all at once!

@havenofaith: dude who cares if he made a typo?maybe english is not his first language….u think u are so smart that u have to correct everyone. well i have a lot of typos as english is in fact my 4th language. seriously, get over yourself!
this is an mmo forum, if u like correcting so much, go join a teachersforum.

Darnis.4056:

These buffs make me somewhat angry; like that time they gave mesmer 3 might per shatter, totally disconnected from the community.

omg totally forgot about that epic fail. same like adding burn for necros, same with permastleath that has never been fixed, same with stunlock warrior mess.

yeah anet keeps buffing the wrong things after they nerfed certain things too hard. for example mesmers glam build was very powerful and confusion. the main problem was that confusion kept ticking when people dodged or healed. but no anet decided to nerf bb that was important for stacking and reduced confusion by 50 percent in wvw.
this was our most viable zerg weapon. yes confusion ticks that scale up to 2k ticks if stacked by a mesmer group are strong, but didnt even close as long as any other condition out there. but anet went too harsh on about it and now they have a rune that gives warriors 20-25 stacks with 4 to 5 interupts for 15 seconds. it needed a nerf,but not soo much that an entire build gets destroyed. what a necro can do with their marks,wells, deathshourd, dhuum and all that is way more powerful than what a glambuild was ever capable of.
warriors are out of control, can insta rez a tower and keeplord, have high toughness, vitality, stuns that can perma interrupt u so u cant even use 1 single skill, they have a huge dps (and anet allows 20k killshots and 13k eviscerate). meanwhile mesmers have a hard time to tag in a zerg, are trying to puzzle a build together that can maybe do what other classes can, but with less dmg, less condition dmg, less toughness and more skills we gotta use to do so. mesmers are stong in spvp, but in wvw every other class outshines them atm.
but hey yeah, lest buff the warriors, they need it soooooo badly. …..
stuff like that shows that anet really doesnt have a clue about how to balance things.

Excalibur.9748:

i don’t think devs know what they’re doing if they’re buffing war instead of nerfing them.

yeah they dont know anything! seriously! how can they even think about buffing them?!!?! warrior is out of control in wvw. i mean i get crit by 13 k eviscerata and yes,im light armor but still have 1600 toughness and 2,2k armor. so yeah not glass, but not really tanky either, but 13k?wtf. i get chain stunned to death and can only use 1 single attack during the whole time.
warriors get toughness, power, condition and stuns all at the same time without sacrificing anything. if i went full condi glam with my mesmer, i end up with 900 power adn 1.7 k – 2k condi dmg. with my mesmer i never even got close to 13 k ever ever ever.
but no dev’s keep destroying wvw with their kitten balance system. they think mesmer is in a great spot?!?! yeah in a 1v1 situation. every other class can hit multiple targets. in wvw its important, but no lets buff the op golden child warrior even more while mesmers get to be veilbots!

do u think i wanna play the stupid cheesy phantasm build?no, i never have and never will! id rather give up all phantasms if its what i takes to get anet to giveus more than i 1v1 class that cant do anything better than any other class. even our confusion was taken away and now given to interrupt classes with a broken rune. yeah guess which class is getting it…warrior!!!!

if those are gnna be the buffs for October…sry, but goodbye gw2 for me. if devs are too blind to see the issues of the classes that might wanna maybe be effective in wvw and devs buff warriors that are already op in wvw. sry that will be it for me.
eles need buffs in spvp, but are ok in wvw. necros are too strong in everything but pve, mesmers are only good in 1v1, same with thieves. warrior are op in pve, op in wvw and only stunlock warriors have a slight chance in spvp.
rangers are in a bad spot in wvw, in a mediocre spot in pve and only sirit rangers are good in spvp,
guardians are in a good spot if not too tanky in wvw.
engis are ina good spot, but need help in pve and more people to have the skill to play it in wvw.
mesmers need buffs in wvw, need a way to hit multiple targets, need stability, need to move away from duelist only , they are in agood spot in spvp, pve needs buffs aswell.

woah whats your toughness?glass is not good in a gvg ore zerg.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

i think that is intended.

warriors are soldiers after all, in war, more soldiers is always good.

yep but they shouldnt dominate everything.this is an mmo and other classes have roles too and i would like tomove away from veil/portal/tw bot and from duelist 1v1 only.

yanchoy.9176:

The topic is about potential BUFFS, and you guys are still talking about warriors??!

Why not give everything to them?
Or maybe they can rip off the entire engi class and make it as a warrior’s minion instead, cause I think they too need some AI. >.>

And yes, I’m mad, bro. ><

thats all devs play.warriors!of course they will buff them into oblivion, ignoring the fact that they are dominating in wvw and pve.mesmers do need buffs for wvw,but not spvp at all as we are good in dueling. same with thieves, they are great in duels, but in wvw only ganking and dolyak, and gatetaggers. anet. split the gamemodes already.if warriors get more buffs wvw will become unplayable!

Lady Sara Goldheart.2764:

Killsmith.8169:

JonathanSharp.7094:

-Too long post to quote-

Whether you like it or not, you guys already have 3 different games. Each game type has a different structure, different rules, and different goals. I get where you’re going with your analogy, but it’s flawed. You aren’t answering the same question in three languages. You’re answering English questions in English, Japanese questions in Japanese, and Greek questions in Greek.

The way you’re doing it now, you have to come up with a fix for one game type that doesn’t effect the other two too badly. I would argue that it takes more work to do that than it does to split the skills and balance to solve issues unique to each game type. The upkeep shouldn’t be costly at all, you just don’t fix what isn’t broken. What could be more cost effective than that?

I fully agree on it and love the debunking of the arguments given before. They cannot really fix anything properly if they try to balance all 3 types together.

yeah agreed.they have to be split. what is powerful in spvp, is weak or useless in wvw. wvw is dominated by classes that are multi tagret strong. a duelist class like mesmers is only ok for roaming, but in a zerg u have to stay back and spam nullfield, veil, portal golems, tw golems and u can baraly keep up with the zerg due to our out of combat speed. same with thieves they are great at ganking people and dolys, but in a zerg the can only pick on the leftovers.
warriors are out of control in wvw due to all the spvp buffs. guardians would need buffs in one area, but are too much in the other area. rangers are nowhere in wvw. necros have been buffed because of spvp, now they are a must take in wvw and also too strong. so yeah ty anet for your awesome balance and ty for not splitting the 3 gametypes. ty for ruining the fun i used to have in wvw and now its a warrior/guardian/necro train vs veil/tw/portal bot mesmers as duelist means nothing in wvw unless u wanna go roaming.

boumz.9851:

Game Update Notes – October 1, 2013

sPvP:

Necromancer:
Grasping Dead: This skill now applies one stack of bleeding instead of two (PvP only).

elementalist added a new animation for fiery greatsword, removed rl to compensate
memer added an extra butterfly,reduced phantasm dmg by 75 percent to compensate
thief: added an extra sec on revealed.in addition to that gave the thief 4 more eveade skills to compensate
warrior: added 4 more stuns and decreased cooldowns on mace skills
necro: removed 1 second of burn, increased dhuum duration to compensate and added 1 bleed stack
ranger: added a new spirit

Vena.8436:

selan.8354:

do u even play wvw? ok then tell me what happens if a zerg with a ton of necros hits a zerg with a lot of mesmers? what about the new warrior meta? its ridiculous how strong the warrior is in wvw. gueardian trains are nearly unstoppable.thieves crit u for kitten 8k even if u have toughness. i cant even react due to the interrupt spam in wvw.

Making an extreme, impossible example is not how you demonstrate a point; ie. a zerg of mesmers vs a zerg of necros. One that will never happen, two you seem to be under the impression that Null Field (an extremely powerful ability in WvW) doesn’t exist.

selan.8354:

meanwhile mesmers are bottom feeders(and no im not talking about stupid roaming im talking about wvw).

Just because you don’t like the builds they have available (and since when is roaming not a part of WvW?) doesn’t mean jack. There will always be optimal builds: optimal builds for zerging, for roaming, and for havoc.

roaming is not the problem. yes it is part of wvw.yes,it can be fun to roam, but there are people out there that wanna be able to fight in a group and been taken serious by commanders. most of the time the expect us to use veil.
yes i run a reflection build atm as i like trying out new builds, but since the glam nerf there hasnt been anything new that is even close in comparison. i wish that anet starts to buff other unused skills and traits. i feel stuck with what we got atm and spvp balance is stopping anet from buffing anything even though in wvw it is needed.

all the current wvw builds somewhat feel puzzled together and a little awkward atm. we are trying to puzzle something together like an interrupts build where a warrior can easily spec into it and is way more successful with it.
we come up with a condition build, where the same warrior can use perplexity and get more viable longer lasting stacks than we do, the rest of our conditions is rng based.
then we got a little bit of boonsharing and need a lot of traits and againan rng based sigil where a guardian can push a few buttons that create the same thing,but better.
we got stealth, but thats a thief’s specialty.
what we lack is a clear role in wvw,but spvp keeps us locked into the roaming duelist. and in spvp i think we got many tools to be viable once the condi and cc meta is toned down.

Player Character.9467:

selan.8354:

Red Falcon.8257:

skillionaire.3574:

Only thing that needs changing imo is the skullcrack from 3 to 2 secs, match it with the earthshaker that’s already 2 sec stun.

How about you slot Stability instead.

Stability is the most fundamental PvP boon, if you run without it you are begging to die.

erm as a mesmers i gotta ask…which stability? the mantra one?try using a mantra in a fight. plus being stunlocked to death there wont be time to react with anything at all. so mesmers have no counter to a cc warrior at all.

except just blinking away…

lol u know that blink has a long cd and the range is pretty pathetic, plus in wvw a lot of people replace blink with a stunbreaker, condition remover and feedback.or we are forced to bring veil, ore portal with us.so yeah blink is not a viable argument. u can catch up with us way easier after blink is used.remember our movement speed is crap…

Vena.8436:

TGSlasher.1458:

Not only do you have to balance the profession over 3 parts of the game, but you also have to balance the profession and its builds to other builds of the same profession and the other professions. Taking into consideration how those other builds then perform in PvE, PvP (against all other builds) and WvW.

WvW is a self-correcting system, imo, because of how large a number of people that get involved therein individual class OP-ness gets diluted.

do u even play wvw? ok then tell me what happens if a zerg with a ton of necros hits a zerg with a lot of mesmers? what about the new warrior meta? its ridiculous how strong the warrior is in wvw. gueardian trains are nearly unstoppable.thieves crit u for kitten 8k even if u have toughness. i cant even react due to the interrupt spam in wvw.

meanwhile mesmers are bottom feeders(and no im not talking about stupid roaming im talking about wvw).mesmers will not get wel deserved buffs for wvw, because of spvp! all we are atm in wvw is veil,tw and portal bots. all those builds u are so afraid of in spvp, they suck in wvw. clones die beforee they reach and phantasms are a joke in a zerg.mesmer is a duelist atm and nothing more. all our traits are balanced and aimed towards 1v1. this has to stop.
honestly i am starting to wish for the total nerf to nothingness of phantasms and shatters, so we can move forward to new builds that work in wvw aswell. ill give up phantasms, shatters, moa and hey take veil,tw and portal right with u!

Red Falcon.8257:

skillionaire.3574:

Only thing that needs changing imo is the skullcrack from 3 to 2 secs, match it with the earthshaker that’s already 2 sec stun.

How about you slot Stability instead.

Stability is the most fundamental PvP boon, if you run without it you are begging to die.

erm as a mesmers i gotta ask…which stability? the mantra one?try using a mantra in a fight. plus being stunlocked to death there wont be time to react with anything at all. so mesmers have no counter to a cc warrior at all.

Tupi.2967:

@selan Elem is not average in PvE, not in zerker. Necros are average however (pve).

u could be right. i leveled my ele which was my first main while my best friend leveled a necro and he had it pretty easy compared to me. thats maybe why i could have screwed those 2 up a little.

i think the main problem with buffs and nerfs are the 3 game types and anet only answeres in the spvp forums and ignores everything else(or at least it seems like that as they never answer in our profession forums) thats why people come here to ask for buffs. a wvw player has to come here to do that as wvw balance is not in a good spot at all atm.
lets see:

necro:
wvw: meta, turn chokepoints into deathtraps, great at tagging and on the edge of op
pve: performs well and seems in a stable position
tpvp: great
1v1: great

warrior:
pve: best tagger, meta and the easiest to play
wvw: meta, on the edge of op
tpvp: performs well in tpvp and could be meta soon
1v1: only great inif stunlock build

ele:
pve: average
wvw: decent as they can support and hit well in large groups,but lacks build variety
1v1: average-ok in 1v1
tpvp: not that great

guardian:
wvw: meta. too much heals,too tanky too many boons and foodbuffs turn them into beasts, can spam 1 on staff to tag, can reflect, reatals an entire zerg, 2 guardians are almost unkillable under water…..
tpvp: performs well
1v1: depends on build, but is in a good spot, can be very tanky, but not much dps
part of the meta in pve

thief:
wvw: part of the meta and very annoying. known for ganking, soloing keeplords,towerlords , camps and killing dolys. permastealth turns them into trolls,but not that great in zergs though.
1v1: meta
tpvp: meta
pretty bad in pve.

engi:
(u need the right build and skill though)
wvw: strong
tpvp: strong
1v1: certain builds are extreemly strong
pve: not that popular, hard to level

mesmer:
wvw: without our utility portal,tw and veil, bottom as all other classes do everything we can, but have easier access to it or do it better. clones die too quick, phantasms same, tagging has become hard since glam nerf
1v1 :great and can be meta if not vs cc or condi spam
tpvp: can be strong again if cc and condi gets toned down,otherwise utility bot
pve: pretty bad and tagging is a pain.

ranger:
pve: stable
wvw: pretty weak, but has a few utilities that can help out though
1v1: bm was strong, got nerfed, spirit was op, could still be viable
tpvp: could maybe still be helpful

SteepledHat.1345:

What is wrong with mantra condition removal?

try to use it in a wvw fight and u got your answer. same with trying to use the stability mantra in the tornado fight in queens gaunlet.way to easy to be interrupted.

to get back to the topic.
im a little torn between the frontlines here.both of u are right! armageddon is right if u look at the mesmer from a roaming perspective and even small groupfights and if in an organizedguild we can still perform well in gvg.
the things we do well is dueling. in spvp we did very well until condition meta hit.fooling an enemy is easy and fun.people in spvp are even scarred of moa….phantasms are strong, clones are great for distraction and i find myself trying a lot of different builds there.

but i see colesy s points in term of zergs and wvw too. since glam was nerfed it has become quite hard to tag in wvw. mesmers are an extraordinary class and can be quite fun to play, but we have been stripped of quite some abilities and builds that were good in wvw. mesmers have been balanced mainly for spvp and because of that we wont see many changes or buffs as devs only see the spvp mesmer and not the wvw mesmer.

i feel mesmer needs a clearer defined role:what can we do apart from portal, that another class cant?what is our speciality? confusion is now an interruption class skill and not our signature anymore.
-clones die too quick and take away a huge amount of dmg that is supposed to be our aoe
-as other classes can pretty much do everything we can and have easier access to those things, we are kinda looked at as tw/portal/veil bots.
for example:
boonsharing:guardian does it better
reflection: engineer and guardian again
confusion:engi,stunlock warrior and thief with perplexity runes
interrupts: warrior,engi
healing:….ele,ranger
conditions:necro,warrior
aoe dps: necro,ele, warrior, guardian
glasscannon:thief, warrior
stealth: thief is more unpredictable than a mesmer with 3 clones
retaliation: guardian mass retal
stuns: engi,warrior, thief
portal, blink abilities:mesmers portal is very unique and very helpful,thief has quite some blink abilities himself, but mesmers wins this one
haste: mesmer, warrior. tw wins this one as it supports a group
aoe boonstriping: necro turns boons into conditions and conditions into boons, mes nullfield removes conditions and removes boons.necro wins this one
aoe stealth:mesmer and thief.

our specialties are mainly support based. tw,portal,massinvis,veil is what we do best atm, because everything else is already taken by other classes. so yes buffing other aspects of mesmer is needed for wvw. in spvp we are quite capable once the condi meta has toned down a little.

Atherakhia.4086:

I haven’t seen too much change in sPvP that made the slightest difference in WvW. The spirit change for example really didn’t impact WvW rangers one bit because the spirits have always sucked in WvW. The pet nerf a ways back also had limited impact because, again… WvW is not friendly to pets.

The only thing that truly suffers in this game with sPvP nerfs is dungeon crawls, but even then, most classes in this game suck in PvE too.

My issue with balancing around sPvP like ANet has been doing is more related to the fact that ALL changes done to the classes for the past year have been focused on balancing the classes around the existing sPvP meta. This means that classes haven’t grown at all. The weak areas have stayed the same. The strong areas have been nerfed. Nothing has been done to encourage diverse builds or play styles.

The Ranger is a great example of this as well. The Ranger class has no focus or role to play in this game. It’s power based options have never worked. Most skills are awful. Nearly every adjustment (either positive or negative) has been to push it more into a bunker/regen condi playstyle. The problems it had at release have gone unfixed. The areas that need only slight nudges to become useful have gone ignored in favor of reinforcing whatever sPvP meta is currently running.

The balance changes for sPvP have a valuable impact on WvW and I see very little harm in the changes made. The problem is ANet suffers from SEVERE tunnel vision and have let a number of classes wallow and die to the point WvW is dominated by about 4 classes and ANet doesn’t even appear to be aware of it.

erm yeah the small changes to guardians made them part of the current wvw meta for example. 6 people tried to kill 2 guardians in the water and it took over 10 minutes as they were almost unkillable. same with a ranger that kept rezing himslef with a dead pet underwater over and over while 4 people tried to kill him.

dont even get me started on the beast called warrior in wvw and then all it takes is 3 necros and they can pretty much hold a zerg back with marks at a chokepoint. rangers have always been pretty weak in wvw apart from the time when the pets were out of control with the bm ranger. now u get stunlocked to death, permafeared to death and instagibbed by eviscerate,backstabs and heart seeker.

eles are still in an ok state in wvw, but mesmers could use a buff so we can move away from the whole 1v1 duelist thing. phantasms die in a heartbeat , clones wont even reach its targets and die before chatter actually happens and the spvp nerf to clone health is actually a huge thing in wvw.
removing a little bit of bleeding for necros is not gonna fix anything. anet, we need a revamp of spvp and wvw balance.
and yes u are right 4 classes are dominating:warrior,guardian,necro and thief. this is not fun,its a grind and seeing classes do everything u can do,but way easier is not balance. where is the mesmers role? where is a spot for rangers? is thief only supposed to be there to gank, troll, kill dolys?what if they wanna be part of a big zergfight? what if a mesmer group would like to be a threat and not a portalchain?

FirstBlood.7359:

Do you even read patchnotes?

we do,but erm what buffs u referring to?

Xsorus.2507:

Here’s a thought Jon, quit balancing all game modes based on a dumbed down version of the game designed around standing on Points to win the game.

You don’t have to Separate PVE and WvW abilities, but you could save yourself and a lot of us a whole lot of trouble if you Separate Those two with SPvP, what is overpowered in SPvP and a pain for them, is a Joke in World vs World.

Do you see anyone crying about Spirit Rangers in World vs World? Nope….Because we don’t have to stand on a small point trying to hold it… We can just eat them alive and be done with it.

this very much. warriors are beasts in wvw and guardian trains are nearly unstoppable… spiritranger…oh well we saw 1 in wvw and my friend asked me what on earth those weird spirits were…we killed him in an instant…..aaand my friend still doesnt understand why it is feared in spvp.
if u balance only around 1v1 fights it will hurt wvw a lot as mesmers are maybe great duelists but in zergs…u gotta find a way to make this class work to tag and tank. but if u buff the mesmer around wvw, there would be problems in spvp too. so do us a favor and split the 2 for good.

Zumy.6318:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Also good points about making sure that we don’t take away the things “holding down” some of the strong builds. I think Mes and Ele are probably ok for the most part

Does somebody of your team actually play the game? Everybody and his mother moved away from Ele.
This is disappointing… thank god I levelled a Warrior now.

feel your pain. due to the messed up balance ,eles are in wvw aswell as mesmers only used as an extra utility slot for the dominating classes warrior,guardian, necro. statistics have already proven that mes are the least played class. not everyone wants to be a phantasm or shatter spec.
i tryed some pve and with the zergs there i am having a real hard time to tag,so im forced to use boring phantasm dps specs. i like reflection and spampunishing builds like glam used to be….

and honestly the ranger does need buffs in other areas once they nerf the spirit ranger build.
the class that is gonna shine a lot is the stunlock warrior after the next patch.

Fishbait.6723:

JonathanSharp.7094:

I think Mes and Ele are probably ok for the most part, as long as we tone down the conditions output from some classes, and bring the S/D Thief in line.

Wow, just wow….

yup really wow. it’s official they hate ele and mes. so mesmer updates will be: added 2 more butterflies to illusions and eles fire effect has been improved.

thank you for the update. its good to see a post from u like this.
still wondering if classes will get a big revamp at some point. there is some stuff that might be not really fixable.
maybe mesmers would love to be more than just a duelist that is a veil/portal tw bot in wvw that cannot tag well. maybe thieves are tired of ganking dolyaks. eles are tired of being water field bots. maybe stunlock warriors are too much in wvw.maybe fear is too much in wvw.
so keep up the work! i really like this game and would love to see u guys succeed with this.

btw, please burn rune of perplexity or fix it as the 6th rune kinda feels like a slap in the face for me as a confusion mesmer!!