Guild Wars 2

i think i killed my heal button in todays skillag fest….1.oi

tried this build in spvp. same sigils but runes of the unded and rabid amulet with carrion jewel. ive been quite successful with it.:-)

Nuka Cola.8520:

if it was me i’d delete all mantras and mantra related traits and give mesmers something for better mobility and aoe damage. i do not care or want to see mantras on mesmers. mesmers are supposed to confuse people so give them something like so instead of crappy mantras.

^
this very much. please delete mantras and give us something that supports aoe dmg and is not ai based or dueling based.

if u like roaming, then yes there is a ton of great builds for u. i use blackwater mesmers build for roaming, but in zvz which is the biggest part of wvw, i feel very limited atm. i feel like support only ankitten ot having fun like this at all. phantasm mesmers melt very quick in a zerg so u can try it but make sure to kite(also phantasms die very quickly in a zerg), shatter is pretty much the same as all ai based skill are pretty weak in a zvz situation.
a lot of our builds here are limited to smaller groups and roaming. i wish there was something that is as effective as glam was.

Steelo.4597:

Writetyper.1985:

WvW is balanced guys I swear

yehaa lets make runes that give +5 milion power then! cause WvW is imbalanced and should be. its about time we 1hit gates for better pvd.

the runes alone are not even the one that make wvw imbalanced. warriors are completely out of control and so are necros. but those runes are broken. 6/6 should give 15% confusion dmg instead of 5 stacks for 10-15 sec per interrupt

woah. thats some weird dmg right there. i wonder what caused that. hacks maybe? or a game glitch

honestly as much as these runes are op and absolutely unbalanced, there is soo much wrong in wvw balance wise……

hammerwarrors
cc spam
necros
eles dragontoooth exploit still not fixed
perplexity runes
siege
thief stealth too high,crit too high, can burst u down in seconds
warriors heal
guardian retal
mesmers only support atm due to lack of aoe and clones/phantasm die too quick
rangers almost not in wvw anymore
people being forced to blob, because if they are not warriors small groups have no chance anymore
skillag is terrible
lag is terrible
necros can autoattack u even without los on walls

no balance at all no nothing. if there was something like a balance that wasnt based on stupid spvp 1v1 then mesmers and ranger could be viable again. and th balance is important to have fun.

JonathanSharp.7094:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/October-15th-balance-skills-updates-preview/

K it’s up, going to meetings!

ty for the update, but is there any possiblity that u can try to at least balance wvw a little? im so, so ,so sick of being a support and so sick of hammer warrior/necro and guardian trains and all i am allowed to do is veil them.this is not fun and im really losing hope here. spvp makes me as a wvw mesmer stuck and underpowered in wvw. and no i am not a roamer and will never be. id like to have the opportunity to actually fiight in zergs and be successful with it with my chosen class.
it wasnt in my job description to be a veilbot that portals golems and be a support only.
in none of the games i ever played(which is a ton) i never ever ever choose support classes ever. so please fix this mess.
balance is very important in wvw. its not fun to run with your mesmer group into a hammerwarrior group and getting destroyed even though u are way more coordinated then them and all they press is a few autoattacks and cc’s while your attacks are so weak(because being specced into toughness=less dps) that they will never have less than 75 percent of their health.

i feel stuck in this mess, because spvp mesmer does well. now i get more support kitten…ugh. im losing hope….and i really love your game…..

SynfulChaot.3169:

selan.8354:

very true. i just tired of using the same stupid support utilities and be a kitten servant for war/guardians and necros. as long as mesmers dont get reliable aoe dmg that doesntrequire a kitten clone or phantasm or glam gets unnerfed, there is very little hope for mesmers in wvw. and honestly this sad state is pushing me away from the game more and more. i mean who wants to be forced to reroll because kitten anet nerfed your class to the ground and made other classes op and all u are allowed to do is kitten support. and all because of that stupid spvp! spvp destroyed wv balance and anet refuses to make certain wvw tweaks and mesmers wil be stuck in this sad wvw state forever, because of spvp.
i think there is no hope left for rangers and mesmers in wvw. but hey lets buff warriors shouts. its not like they are completely out of control in wvw already!

*shrug*

Eh. I main a ranger and I’ve refused to take her back into WvW since October. It’s just not worth my time as all I can really do is roam, which I hate doing. I, as a ranger, can’t really be good support in WvW zerg fights. And I’ve just not returned to WvW at all since as it’s just not the same if I’m forced to use an alt, so I know how you feel.

But at the same time it is obvious that they are starting to see the balance issues and I see several changes that show they’re willing to change things for the better. All we can do is wait and see how the changes progress. To see if they can bring more balance to modes seriously lacking it, esp. WvW and to a lesser extent PvE.

Until then I remain firmly PvE and RP only.

yeah rangers are in an even worse state then mesmers and this sucks. of course u dont wanna be a support only class. u wana tag and have fun zerg fighting and being able to tag.
it used to be soo much fun with our 13 mesmer group to destroy zergs with confusion bombs and coordinated portaling around them. of course they could destroy us, but it was fun to feel strong. well at that time nobody knew confusion and would mindlessly spam 111111 and that was what killed them. i wish there was something like that again that actually rewards coordinated skilled play and not just hammerwarrior mass zergs with necromark spam and guardian massretal.

i hope they buff rangers in wvw a lot as they really need it and also mesmers need a lot of rework in order to be viable in wvw again. it is not fun at all to be support only. our clones are too weak tu survive even a shatter attempt in a zergfight. so where is our aoe?
mantras? sry but this mechanic is still not working in a group fight as the casting can be interrupted and takes way too long.
rangers need more things that allow them to tag. the only time i really felt rangers being strong was during bm meta.
this has to be fixed. i really dont mind giving up a ton of phantasms if i get to play a build that work in wvw.

SynfulChaot.3169:

selan.8354:

well roaming and actual zvz is a big difference. if u are in a higher tier u will run into quite a lot of large zergs, and there mesmer melts.
u cant run an spvp build unless u are in a giant zerg where all u can do is spam 1. if u are a smaller group though and meet a medium zerg well there is a huge gap between war/necro.guardian and mes/ranger. commanders want us only for veil/nullfield/portal and timewarp. we are not the dmg class at all, we get used for support and thats boring and not what i signed up for at all. so, sry but i refuse to use that stupid support utility from now on. a warrior can just melt through an entire zerg/deal massive dmg/massive cc and gets massive heals and is tanky. if i wanna deal dmg like a war i have no defense/no toughness/ massive cooldowns and bad condition cleansing and stability.
roaming shouldnt be the only ting we can do next to stupid support.

Lots of classes are in that boat. Many of us can’t really keep up with the zerg fights. For lots of us, roaming (or zerg support) is all we’re currently good at in WvW. Hopefully that will change over time, but that’s how it is right now.

The question is, though, how many of the proposed changes might shift things up and change the balance? How many things might make some classes more viable in zerg fights?

very true. i just tired of using the same stupid support utilities and be a kitten servant for war/guardians and necros. as long as mesmers dont get reliable aoe dmg that doesntrequire a kitten clone or phantasm or glam gets unnerfed, there is very little hope for mesmers in wvw. and honestly this sad state is pushing me away from the game more and more. i mean who wants to be forced to reroll because kitten anet nerfed your class to the ground and made other classes op and all u are allowed to do is kitten support. and all because of that stupid spvp! spvp destroyed wv balance and anet refuses to make certain wvw tweaks and mesmers wil be stuck in this sad wvw state forever, because of spvp.
i think there is no hope left for rangers and mesmers in wvw. but hey lets buff warriors shouts. its not like they are completely out of control in wvw already!

SynfulChaot.3169:

selan.8354:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Yes. Speed on mesmers please. I don’t want to have to run Traveler’s runes just to get around with any haste. >.<

speed is terrible especially in wvw. why on earth do i have to equip weak runes that dont support my build at all just so i can actually keep up in wvw? all u see in wvw is hammerwarriors and guardians and giant necro trains.

mesmers are the least played class next to the nearly none represented rangers in wvw. i love my class and it used to be fun, but this balance for wvw is simply not fun anymre. i die too quick and have noting to bring to the table in wvw appart from stupid support kitten. i hate playing support only. but anet wants us to be weak so his fav necro/warriors can take over the world. very very dissapointed in anet favoring classes and conveniently overlook op kitten in wvw. i hate being a 1v1 class only. id rather have anet destroy the whole spvp mesmer, so we can at least get something in wvw.

oh and @ commanders: portal your stupid golems yourself, oh u cant?well that too bad. then walk them.
signed mesmer on strike!

Eh. I mostly PvE and tire of how long it takes unboosted to cross a map (I hate waypointing) as we move so slowly. I actually take whatever waterways I can as we can actually move with some decent speed with a few spear attacks.

But in WvW I hear mesmers are quite useful, especially as roamers. I don’t know myself as I’ve not taken mine out of PvE and RP.

well roaming and actual zvz is a big difference. if u are in a higher tier u will run into quite a lot of large zergs, and there mesmer melts.
u cant run an spvp build unless u are in a giant zerg where all u can do is spam 1. if u are a smaller group though and meet a medium zerg well there is a huge gap between war/necro.guardian and mes/ranger. commanders want us only for veil/nullfield/portal and timewarp. we are not the dmg class at all, we get used for support and thats boring and not what i signed up for at all. so, sry but i refuse to use that stupid support utility from now on. a warrior can just melt through an entire zerg/deal massive dmg/massive cc and gets massive heals and is tanky. if i wanna deal dmg like a war i have no defense/no toughness/ massive cooldowns and bad condition cleansing and stability.
roaming shouldnt be the only ting we can do next to stupid support.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Levetty.1279:

Please please please give Mesmers some better OoC speed/leaps and maneuverability for WvWvW and open world exploring. Some non regeneration health regen would be nice too.

Rangers just buff everything, seriously. Also look hard at their traits especially beastmaster line.

Fury on Meditations? Lol ok I’ll use the hell out of that.

Yes. Speed on mesmers please. I don’t want to have to run Traveler’s runes just to get around with any haste. >.<

speed is terrible especially in wvw. why on earth do i have to equip weak runes that dont support my build at all just so i can actually keep up in wvw? all u see in wvw is hammerwarriors and guardians and giant necro trains.

mesmers are the least played class next to the nearly none represented rangers in wvw. i love my class and it used to be fun, but this balance for wvw is simply not fun anymre. i die too quick and have noting to bring to the table in wvw appart from stupid support kitten. i hate playing support only. but anet wants us to be weak so his fav necro/warriors can take over the world. very very dissapointed in anet favoring classes and conveniently overlook op kitten in wvw. i hate being a 1v1 class only. id rather have anet destroy the whole spvp mesmer, so we can at least get something in wvw.

oh and @ commanders: portal your stupid golems yourself, oh u cant?well that too bad. then walk them.
signed mesmer on strike!

Handin.4032:

I’m getting really disappointed in how anet treats mesmers.

The 1 year stuff showed that mesmer was the least played class, 10%. Maybe its time anet asks, “why?”

I’ve played mesmer since the beginning, mostly in WvW. However, many of our classes utilities are all but useless, in both WvW and PvE. Confusion is all but useless in PvE, it doesn’t stack very long and mobs rarely attack enough to make it worthwhile. So, what can mesmers do in PvE? From my experience, there is but one answer: zerker phantasm build. Confusions, and even glamour fields, even lost much of their usefulness in WvW ever since they were nerfed into obvlivion. Most condition mesmer builds are now the 20/20/30/0/0 line, NOT confusion or glamours.

The statement: “To stay in line with the support theme, we wanted to find ways the Mesmer could support allies” just baffles me. I’ve never felt like mesmer is meant to be purely support, though we do have it. And our support is still pretty good! I’ve never heard anyone tell me that mesmer support was totally worthless or bad or broken. What’s broken is most of our damaging builds in cases like WvW. We’ve been forced to become more and more constrained because of nerf after nerf after nerf with no alternatives. In WvW, clones are all but useless, especially with their health being so low.

What mesmer needs isn’t an extra cool thing on a mantra, we need the things that have been totally nerfed to be reworked. Rework our last 2 lines, which are either buggy (I’m looking at you focus reflect!), or lost much of their use (glamour fields in that line).

I think many mesmers would even be happy if you fixed some of the bugs that STILL exist. I still summon phantasms that attack once, then just sit there doing nothing. I still suddenly lose LOS the moment a slight ledge is in the way, and I’ve still been staff teleported into walls! Focus reflects with focus #4 rarely work if you’re on a slight incline, for instance.

I feel like patch after patch mesmers are being tossed around with no one at anet really knowing where they want the class to go. They nerf random things, refuse to fix bugs, and give buffs to some random skills.

It’s time anet asks why so little of the population is playing mesmer (I’ve even noticed a vast shortage of them in WvW, where sometimes I’m the only one in a 40 man group!).

i agree with you very much. i never ever played ANY healer or support classes EVER, because i simply dont like them.not my style at all. in wvw u se only very little mesmers atm. i mean a commander has ahrd time to rally up more than 3 mesmers for portaling golems.
a lot of our skills are manly 1v1 based which makes them pretty useless in wvw. also ai(phantasms) is pretty weak in wvw as they die extremly quick in siege rain and aoe spam.

we had a good offensive build once in wvw(glam build) but anet overnerfed it. now we are stuck. spvp prevents us from getting a decent buff for wvw. and honestly im at a point where i refuse to portal golems, or carry veil with me and also no more tw. just being support is no fun at all and is slowly pushing me away from the game!i love wvw, but this is not acceptable anymore. this has to change now!

Expansive.3716:

Yeah I saw the “leaked notes” and then saw J.Sharp’s thread with what Anet is working on as far as the different aspects for all the professions.

When reading the two sources, I didn’t even have energy to sigh. It’s underwhelming, but at the same time expected. When the devs say that the Mesmer is in a good place then that tells me not to expect much for the Mesmer.

And as far as mantras, I don’t think the group support thing will be enough because the effects of the mantras aren’t great. 2s of stability or protection really doesn’t do anything. However, if it were something like, gain an extra 2s per the number of allies that the matra’s effect is applied to, then it would be appealing.

this j. sharp didnt even take the time to spell mesmers out he simply wrote mes. shows me his hate for the class. very underwhelming. i dont see any change for wvw for us any time soon. i did not sign up for a kitten support class. i chose mesmer and would like to do something else then only support in wvw.
sry on strike: i wont portal any golems anymore, no more tw, no more veil from me. i will take all the stunbreakers with me i got instead!

Mance.5640:

JQ Sea are meanies =(

haha no worries, we had a blast :-)

Hellride.6571:

JQ being boring and rushing to the def of bg hills to wipe 15 naked fa lol

yup. well they probably didnt have as much fun as we had with our avtr drinking night.ty for all that came to our ts and celebrated my bday.:-)
bird is the word!XD

Dhampyr.2104:

This topic is a great one. From my standpoint, mesmers need to focus less on AOE big numbers and more on what we bring to the team. For me in my WvW guild group, I run staff/GS, 20/0/20/0/30. The main zerg busting traits that I take is the 20 point Dom trait that strips boons on shatter (forget the name of it atm), and Imbued Diversions (30 point Illusions trait).

Mesmers are great at AOE boon ripping, and the way I open on a group is this:

Start with GS, spawn iZerker and Mirror blade clone in the middle of the group, immediately shatter and toss down a null field. Between the null field and the boon ripping shatter, more often than not I’ll end up stripping their stability, and that really hurts any organized group.

Swap to staff, toss down chaos storm. With perplexity runes, the interrupts from that can be troublesome for opponents.

After that, I auto attack with staff for a bit until I feel that the GS CDs are up, swap back, and rip more boons, preferably using an F3 shatter for more AOE interrupts.

While mesmers aren’t incredibly strong directly in large groups, we do have the ability to make a large contribution to the fight.

well yes if u like being support..but i dont like being support only! i find healer classes boring! i wanna be able to push with the zerg and do decent dmg, not standing in the backline and veil/tw/ nullfield the op kitten warriors/guardian trains!

seriously im tired of being a veilbot! i never played support classes or healers. and i never will. i refuse to! i dont mind supporting and getting decent dps or tagging with it, but simply being used for 3 utilities is not what i want. anet stated clearly that they dont want to have healers/dps/tank, but with the balance disaster called spvp, thats where we are heading.

i think the main problem is that a lot of our dps comes from ai! clones die too quick so our shatter aoe and all the good stuff that comes out of that(removing conditions, adding conditions and all that). also phantasms will maybe hit once if u are lucky, but are affected by cc and everything and retal will be a problem too. i went back to glam with perplexity. in still pretty weak with it, but at least i get a few lootbags for tagging.

when glamour was still strong, i had fun at least.now its a grind.
@ all commanders out there: u know what: walk your kitten golems yourself and no i wont bring veil or portal! im not your servant! (signed: veilbot on strike ;-) )

i think anet made this rune to buff confusion classes and users out there, but failed to see that any class with interrupts can use it and get viable stacks with it. as a mesmer it is a slap in the face as anet nerfed bb just to tone our stack ability down and yet they bring out those runes and give that ability even stronger to any interrupt heavy class.

Pyroatheist.9031:

selan.8354:

ensoriki.5789:

Stability.

mesmer has barly any access to stability.also if u get hit by multiple people and the first stun happens, then u use a stunbraker, but by the time u are free again, u get feared, then u might wanna use a block, but the next cc has already knocked u down. u dont have enough time to react or a way to counter it. it happened quite a lot that i wnted to blink away but the perma cc prevented me through the entire fight. i wasnt even able to use a single attack.
so a immunity to it after being hit sounds pretty reasonable imo

Eh. Mesmers fart stunbreakers and evasion. There’s really no excuse for a mesmer to get stunlocked.

no i meant stability not stunbreakers. stunbreakers are there. but the stuns+ being knocked down and perma interrupted = very annoying death

tetrodoxin.2134:

So we’re having a Make a Wish session now? Alright, here’s mine:

Buff Confusion duration. Even a 1s buff would make me happy.

yes please. 1s would make me very happy too

Aneirin Cadwall.9126:

_quite a few build posts _

…says nothing good about the state of mesmer.

Many, including myself, are struggling to find viable builds and trying every possible combination of everything in a tree of traits and stats that make very little sense right now.

vey true i find myself trying a ton of builds. in spvp i seem to have a little more fun with them though, but in wvw i see very little variety atm.

ensoriki.5789:

Stability.

mesmer has barly any access to stability.also if u get hit by multiple people and the first stun happens, then u use a stunbraker, but by the time u are free again, u get feared, then u might wanna use a block, but the next cc has already knocked u down. u dont have enough time to react or a way to counter it. it happened quite a lot that i wnted to blink away but the perma cc prevented me through the entire fight. i wasnt even able to use a single attack.
so a immunity to it after being hit sounds pretty reasonable imo

Istaf.1953:

selan.8354:

well this is the problem though, as mesmers would like to be more than just support. dont get me wrong, i love helping u guys out with veil, but when glam was still viable, mesmers were veiling,feedbacking,nullfielding u guys just as well, as these are all glamfields, but since the nerf, we got stripped of our dmg output next to those utilities. well staff eles are gonna get buffed in October and will be able to move a little away from water/fire/lighningfields. i would like to see something done about rangers and mesmers so we can tag too.
being support should be a choice and not the only role your class has.

Well it’s a group activity so every class plays support. The basic Guardian build is all support shouts/consecrations, and Warriors also use support shouts/banners. Not to mention, the reason ranger is considered useless is because they don’t have good support characteristics in WvW.

I’ve also never seen a guild turn away a mesmer, or say things like “I wish we had fewer mesmers” so I’am not sure what you’re getting at. Rangers on the other hand are a different story.

but exactly this is the issue again. warriors still got dps, guardians are super tanky and can tag quite well while supporting. i feel like mesmers are being pushed into support only, while warriors, necros, guardians kill and get loot.
anet stated clearly that they dont want healers/ support/tank and dps classes separated like this and now they are exactly becoming that. what if i like my mesmer and dont wanna be a support only class? i should have the choice no?
and why is it i cant switch to a build that is great offensive and viable in a zvz?

where in my kitten class description says it: mesmers: the duelist(support only in wvw)? only portaling golems/veiling/ twping/nullfielding the dominant classes is not what i see as fun at all. i never played support classes or healers in any game and anet stated that this game is not the typical healer/dps/tank game!

the balance is completely screwed up atm. there needs to be a place for rangers and mesmers should be able to move away from utility bots. too many warrior/guardian/ necro trains with staff eles.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Part of playing a mesmer skillfully is knowing what phantasms and clones you have on the field, in what order you placed them down, which ones are in danger, and which ones will be replaced first. That increases the skill cap.

Not only would a change like you propose be difficult to actually use effectively since the icons would be so small, it would also be dumbing down the class, which is bad.

this very much!

not really. yeah we post a lot of builds, but that doesnt cover the facttaht there is not much build diversity. in wvw we are very limited since glam was nerfed and glam and immortal were pretty much the only builds that worked well in wvw. now we are kinda stuck with being a great duelist in spvp. anet refuses to split the balance between spvp and wvw, so they say mesmers are fine(in spvp). the state we are in wvw though is pretty bad as not everyone wants to either roam only or be a suport veil bot for the heavy classes and necros out there.

Tarkus.4109:

selan.8354:

Zikory.6871:

Uh oh! Clown shoes trolled our whole server! He’s so clever and original, I wish I had a keep to hide in since were so good at it!

ignore him, just a troll trying to get attention. btw MERC ty for the long campfights last night.we had a blast.

We’ve been trying to get small teams running this last week as there is nothing fun about taking on 15 with 30-40 (used to playing that way from fighting SoRs 30-40 mans). Thanks for the fights.

Just a quick question, is the AVTR comp 100% mes – because it sure seems that way lol.

yup that is us, but we run other classes too. we sometimes field 10-13 mes at once..aww how i miss good old glamtimes ;-)

Mif.3471:

JonathanSharp.7094:

The 3 different game types and splitting skills. Splitting skills between all 3 of our game types (PvE, PvP, WvW) is very costly – it takes more time to split the skills, and then upkeep the split skills. Instead of upkeeping 1 version of a skill, whenever you make future changes, you now have to make sure all 3 are appropriately balanced for their respective game types

Since you refuse to split skills because it’s more work, and because you personally only care about the sPvP playerbase, balance in other game modes is only going to get worse than it’s already poor state.

And while I’m sure you’d refute the claim that you only care about the sPvP playerbase, this thread is a great example of your favoritism. You’ve gone to the effort to make a thread in the sPvP forum, full of long posts about balance to reassure sPvP players.

Yet meanwhile look at your post history:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/JonathanSharp-7094/showposts
In your last 120 posts, over nearly 6 months, only 10 posts aren’t in the sPvP forum.

For someone who’s meant to be responsible for balance of all game modes, you clearly aren’t interested in the balance concerns and opinions of players of game modes that aren’t sPvP.

Bottom line is, the fact that the team responsible for class balance is the same team responsible for sPvP is an enormous conflict of interest, and that greatly damages balance in the rest of the game.

u pointed out some good stuff here. i think the balance team needs more people, because the game modes do have to be split. there is really no point in finding a sort of middle solution for 3 completely different gamemodes.
u cant even closely compare a gamemode where there is more 1v1 4v4, 6v6 with a game where 30vs40, 60vs 30vs45 happens, trebs, ac’s, ballistas, catas, cannons, guards,mortars, golems with mass cc and mass condi spams…..

here a few examples:

before various patches made to the warrior:

warrior,extremely up in spvp due to slow and very predictable attack moves. in wvw always pretty strong, due to toughness, healing and dps. now anet buffed the warrior multiple times,because of spvp= warrior completely out of control in wvw. it sometimes takes 5 people to take 1 warrior down.

mesmer: always very strong in spvp, due to the whole dueling role. before glamnerf, pretty viable and fun to play in wvw: after a ton of nerfs, (and overnerf of confusion) mesmers are now squishy, have barely any aoe dmg, have a hard time to tag, clones die instantly, phantasms drown in zergs and now mesmers are forced into support roles and have to veil the warriors,tw the golems and try to hide in keeps to portal and then yeah the got nullfield which is nowhere near as good as a necrowell that turns condis into boons and boons into condis.

ranger: pretty much the rarest class u will see in wvw, while they were super popular in spvp, we laugh at spirit rangers in wvw. bm was also nerfed too harsh in wvw as it was actually somewhat viable there, but again anet nerfed it because of spvp.

now that they already stated that they dont wanna split the balancing, im starting to lose hope. according to sotg warriors shouts will get buffed(o.0), staff ele will get buffed(o.0), mesmers are fine(o.0…in spvp yeah, not in wvw) and necros will receive a little shave to their condis(o.0…..erm 1stack of bleed reduction is not really what the necro in wvw needs, chain fear, mass condition boms need a big shave imo). let me guess, next thing is u wanna buff the guardians too?

so anet, please hire a few extra people and split the balance! all i see atm in wvw is massive warrior/guardian/necro trains with ele support and maybe 1 or 2 mesmers for veil.

well they shouldnt shave all condition builds anyways. our condition builds are still pretty weak compared to necros and thieves!

Sir Erighan.9260:

This is by far my biggest issue with ascended weapons. If I want a specific color and want a different stat that doesn’t match the color, I have to craft two and transmute them. Would have been much better to allow users to select the color. I understand not allowing stat changes to set them apart from legendaries, but they could have at least allowed us to select our color combo. This is compounded if you have multiple builds using multiple versions of the same weapon.

My Ele has two sets of daggers and two staves. I’ll need to craft 12 ascended weapons just to get 6 weapons with the stat/color I need to match my armor….talk about lame mechanics.

yep, same here. ill go for celestial look and rabid stats. orange is unacceptable for my mesmer.

i mean this…with and orange weapon..o.0

yep agreed. new upgrades are needed. pvd/gatetagging should not even be possible…also erm about that garrison inner water gate, that doesnt upgrade and the green eb keep watergate…erm, will that ever be fixed?

Zikory.6871:

Uh oh! Clown shoes trolled our whole server! He’s so clever and original, I wish I had a keep to hide in since were so good at it!

ignore him, just a troll trying to get attention. btw MERC ty for the long campfights last night.we had a blast.

mesmers are only not that viable atm due to the condition and cc spam. wait till october and u will be strong again.

now here is what i did. we are facing 2 t1 servers atm and they had a thing that everytime i took down the wall 1 of their zergs ran in and took the tower instead of us.. so ogre wall is down and bg storms in. i ran to the mortar, shot a few fire mortar shells into the lordsroom and boom got a chest. then i continue on the cata to take down the wall again, then jq zerg runs in. so i run back to the mortar and shoot into the lordsroom, boom second chest….i ended up getting 5 chests from that whole thing XD

Istaf.1953:

Art.9820:

Istaf.1953:

Art.9820:

I don’t have any problem with stuns but sadly WvW has become Guardian & Warrior Wars and some Necros…. Eles and Mes are weird to see now, roamers and golem rushers still use them, at least in my server this has become very obvious, somehow I feel we will be seeing a nerf on both guards & warriors pretty soon dunno about necros.

Sometimes it is not a matter of L2P is a matter of balance between classes

Not sure what setup you’ve been running but Ele’s and mesmers are two very much used classes. Ele’s have static, water fields and lots of damage, mesmers have boon stripping, veil, portals, time warp etc. The only classes that aren’t used in WvW is ranger and Engi. And one of the main reasons Engi isn’t used is because there aren’t any. Ranger on the other hand needs a buff.

Yup but I encourage to actually sit and start counting heads when zerging and you will notice what I meant, I’m talking about several times not only once, currently most zergs are probably composed by 50%+ of guards and warriors because right now they have an important role.

Engineers and mesmers are the least played classes within the game but we still see a lot of them running around what I’m trying to say is that meta and class popularity are two different things.

Do you remember how all zergs had A LOT of D/D eles?

I think this is one way of many in which anet can draw lines and go by to see the current state of the game.

Oh yea totally, there’s a lot of Guardians and Warriors. However I wouldn’t say the lack of Eles and Mesmers is because they’re useless. Mesmers are a necessity in WvW, In general combat their veil can make or break the opening of a engagement. Same goes for Ele with their healing, stuns and AoE damage which you simply don’t get from the heavy classes.

Our guild also did a lot of D/D eles back in the day, we still do it for fun matter of fact :P

well this is the problem though, as mesmers would like to be more than just support. dont get me wrong, i love helping u guys out with veil, but when glam was still viable, mesmers were veiling,feedbacking,nullfielding u guys just as well, as these are all glamfields, but since the nerf, we got stripped of our dmg output next to those utilities. well staff eles are gonna get buffed in October and will be able to move a little away from water/fire/lighningfields. i would like to see something done about rangers and mesmers so we can tag too.
being support should be a choice and not the only role your class has.

TyPin.9860:

Why do you ppl allways think, that you have seen so much more up in t2 and t1? Our Zergs are not only 10 ppl, lol, that’s a small havoc group or a guild team. Our Zergs are up to 60+ ppl too. Our problem lies within coverage for a whole week. And we’re faced against even higher tier servers and got rofflestomped by huge Zergs ourselfes. But that is no suprise.

Did u ever think that guild Zergs, who most likely are voice chatting with each other and are opening with veil and CC, are just organized very well? Do you run in an own organized guild zerg? If every character has only 1 cc skill (and even chaos storm can be used as CC in a Zerg fight), then they can open with 60 cc skills at the same time. They won’t need hammer warrior to bring out such an initial burst.

Hell it is WvW. It is ment to be played with siege, with suprise attacks, with tactic and strategy. Ppl don’t use that. They just mindlessly Zerg arround. A random Zerg will get rofflestomped by such a big guild Zerg any time. Nerfing warriors won’t change that. CC is very strong is this game and easily executed in many cases. You have to be smart about it and you have to know, which fights you can pick and which you can’t. You know that you could use those mentioned ACs, ppl are complaining about, even against big Zergs? But wait, is that organizied guild using those already? I might start to see a pattern here.

i know about zerging quite well and yes we do have a lot of coverage problems too. but there is a major cc/condi meta going on at the moment and its too much. im pretty good at kiting and usually manage to survive quite long, but lately the warrior meta has taken over whole wvw and this seems a little concerning. the stunlock warrior has received buffs that he needed to be at least viable in spvp, but it has changed wvw.
my guild is very coordinated and we have quite some epic push,kit and portal tactics, but for the past 2 weeks the warrior metas has gotten a little over the top. and its not only the warriors, its also the necros and engis. and actually before that our guild was able to take out groups that were way bigger than us. maybe the meta in eu and na are different atm….
i would love to invite u to our server if i could to see for yourself and u might understand what i mean.

Chris.3290:

Hammer warriors are simply exploiting the reason they were made. Heavy armor + high life pool, and CC.

Every class has CC (mesmers complaining about CC, I’ll remember that the next time I see people pulled off a wall…) and finding the best way to use it is the responsibility of the players and their guildies in helping them refine their builds and playstyles.

As for dealing with hammer mods, double dodge is your friend. As a hammer warrior myself the people I kill are the idiot casters who stay bunched up. Everyone who isn’t “tanky” should be running in circles around the hammer train or picking off stragglers.

says the hammerwarrior. there is way more cc than the hammerwariors to avoid. too much fear, 6-12 hammerwarriors ccing at the same time, engi locking u down and blowing u up, then all the other cc abilities that warriors have and yes mesmers have 1 pull on a 20 sec cooldown, them binding roots, then more fear…rinse and repeat!
there has to be an immunity so u cant be chain interrupted, chain feared and chain stunned. i wanna be able to react at least.

TyPin.9860:

I have encoutnered such Zergs. And honestly, while they were hard to deal with, you can deal with them. Cuz you’ll have your own Hammer Warriors in there. If you are so heavy on condition cleansing, than I say it is ur own fault. Running in a Zerg doesn’t require so many condition cleanses. Using staff gives you on #2 an almost stun breaker and sword #2 gives you a pretty nice evade. And proper stacking will still help you even against those warriors with any profession.

I can not imagine how one plays mesmer without blink. But that is your choice. I see not often such hammer heavy Zergs. I saw but many groups up to 10 players using them, but then also it was not that hard to deal with them. Either I have had not met the kind of Zerg you’re talking about or you simply might want to change your playstyle.

im in na t2 and facing 2 t1 server this week and all i see is warriors and guardians and necros. im being knocked around like a tennisball whithout being able to use 1 single skill.
and yes there are many mesmers out there that dont use blink and my playstyle is fine. u are in t7 and think a group of 10 is many. … well imagine 30-60 and u get what i have faced and am facing every day in na t2. 10 players is almost spvp style and then yes u can use blink and avoid hammer warriors.
i need to carrie veil or stunbreaker/feedback and nullfield with me.
but when facing a zerg, u will see the meta come alive. there is no time to call out 10 people, there is a 30man coordinated guild pushing out the gate with veil. and cc is 90 percent of the initial burst.
and today we needed 5 people to kil 1 stunlockwarrior(he kept heeling, kept cc’in us and was in godlike mode. they need to be toned down. yes, hammerwarriors always existed, but the buffs they received because of spvp, made them op.

i think the idea of alliances that was posted in another thread could possibly fix issues like that. if anet measures the numbers of players on each server , they could figure out a good alliance server to balance the coverage. this could help the whole tier issue.
tier 1 is so stacked atm, that no other tier can match that, tier 2 is too strong for most of the t3 servers etc.
why not create alliances that will change with each matchup to balance the numbers a little. i would love to help underdog servers out, after all my server was the underdog server in t2 for quite some time.

DevonCarver.5370:

selan.8354:

well im sure the patch after the 20th is gonna be the new golemmastery.XD i see the disaster already happening

Shows what you know. The next line is Mastery Mastery. 5 pips, each one makes all the other lines more Masterful.

Seriously, there is a glut of golems right now for a few different reasons, which should start to balance out over time. The price on the TP has started to rise again and likely enough they will be much less plentiful as they continue to be used. We are definitely aware of the change to the game that making golems tradeable has had and we’ll keep looking for ways to adjust the balance of the game, but for now stop those golems!

erm devon…erm i wrote that in another thread( i think it was called golems,golems everywhere) before i knew what masteries were coming out u know that right? and also i was semi serious about that.

that aside, we might need a better way to be able to defend vs golems from walls, but eles, necros and other aoe spams turn that wall into a deathtrap, so defending is pretty tough atm. i dont think masteries are gonna fix that, maybe new upgrades for keeps or stronger walls andgates could help.

TyPin.9860:

Honestly, when I see u talking about mesmer, than I say, if the hammer warrior hits you, it is your own fault. A good mesmer can kite a hammer warrior all day long. And if the warrior is really good, he might hit and even defeat you. But then the reason for that might be, that he really is that good.

About Arrow carts. No. If you want to 1v1, then do duels or go to sPvP. Siege is an important part of WvW. After ACs have been nerved, should we next nerf Balistas? What about the big dmg rams do to a gate? I think that is way over the top too.

There are professions that have more stability than other, and then there are professione, that have almost no stability. But again, talking about mesmer, I often steal my opponents stability and problem is solved.

u kidding right? im not talking about roaming and 1v1. 1 mesmer can kite 1 warrior, YES!of course he can do that as a 1v1 is like spvp.
im talking about actual group fights like gvg,like zvz, not 1v1 or 3v1. im sure if u face a hammerwarrior train your kiting gets lost after…..,hmm 2 seconds.
im not using blink as all my utilities atm are condition cleansing, 1 stunbreaker and feedback.but im talking about actual zergs and yes u will get hit multiple times by hammerwarriors and stunlocked and condition spammed to death.

awesome.XD we are facing 2 tier 1 servers that have 2 times as much coverage as we do, but to be quite honest, im having a blast as when ever we manage to defend something i kinda feel proud about it as we just held a 40-50man zerg off with half their numbers.

but i cant wait to get out of t1 as the skill lag,and monster blobs are not something i desire to experience for longer than a week.

Excalibur.9748:

I think all classes should be made useful in the zerg.

this, but the problem is that anet doesnt split balance between spvp and wvw. so mesmers will not get buffs, because they are doing pretty well in spvp(once condition meta has been toned down). the problem is that warriors will get more buff(shouts according to anet) and they are already out of control in wvw. then there is guardians right after that and necros. soon after the staff ele buff. elementalist will be joining the meta too. the sad part is that mesmers and rangers will become even less part of wvw.
if a commander asks for mesmers to m up in chat u will see around 3-5 out of 30+ .
most of the zergs out there is warrior/guardian trains with ele for wterfields and aoe and necros for condition overload spam.

but hey lets make warriors shouts stronger. and anet already stated that they dont wanna separate the balance as it would be confusing, which is not true a all. wvw balance is in a very very sad state atm.

Istaf.1953:

Or just use stability before they hit you with their CC, and stun breaks followed by dodging if you do get hit.

Agreed about siege though.

which stability? mesmers have very little access to it. guardians and warriors have the best stability in the game.

Deathcon.5903:

Be using iDisenchanter with IE(Illusionary Elasticity) and it has been awesome actually. It works quite well and reliably removes at least 1 condition and more often than not 2 conditions thanks to IE.

yep people forget about this one and i personally like it. it could use a little tweak in terms of casttime though. the cooldown is pretty good though. better than nullfield and arcane thievery.

honestly, i prefer staff. it has saved me many many times when a zerg suddenly pushed out, phaseretreat is a big helper.
gs has the wave, but in the current wvw meta, everyone has stability up…

the phantasm on gs though is one of the most reliable ones in a zergfight, as it still manages to attack, before dying. the staff phantasm is way too slow.i only use image to get at least something that doesent die before i can shatter it.

ok so yeah we got removal, but here are the issues:

-mantras get interrupted quite often,u cant dodge or use anything while casting it otherwise u interrupt it yourself. this is an issue in wvw and spvp where interrupts are part of the current warrior meta.

-nullfield(i run this) is great as it removes conditions every pulse for alla allies standing in it. but the cooldown is pretty long and with the conditionmeta u will get those conditions u removed right back on

-arcane thievery misses most of the time. i like the idea of it and it sounds great, but using it in a heated fight is misses wayy too often.

-torchremoval is pretty reliable in spvp, but it is bound to a weapon that not everyone uses. the phantasm is beyond ridiculous and i only use it for the extra stealth. but all this requires a certain build, which also not everyone runs.

-menders purity again requires a certain traitline to be used and it does require again to give up another trait. most of the mesmer builds out there are very very specific about what trait u choose. if u give up 1 of them for this trait, it affects the entire build. i cant use it atm as all my wvw builds require other traits.

that being said. i tried a build in spvp where i tried to use 3 of those cleansing tools and traits….i survived 3-5 seconds longer, but had a terrible dps and the torch phantasm was the worst! XD
but i would recommend every mesmer to always have 1 utility reserved for condition removal. nullfield or arcane thievery. and btw there is one that gets forgotten very often: Phantasmal Disenchanter(not really vible yet in wvw). i use this one and idefender sometimes in spvp and find myself surviving a little better.

Menaka.5092:

selan.8354:

well the problem is though that mesmers will be balanced on the spvp mesmer, which is not what a wvw mesmer needs.we are great in spvp without the condi spam meta, but i play wvw mainly and not the roaming type. i face a lot of zergfights and atm i feel a little weak as all a commander wants me to do is veil his warriors and guardians,portal and tw his golems and massinvis his warriors while casting nullfield for his warriors…
we lack aoe dmg as our clones die before reaching the zerg and phantasms dont last long enough. the only time i felt strong was during glam times….but since the nerf we havent gotten much mutitarget skills back….

they also mentioned buffing warrior shouts…..again great for spvp, terrible for wvw
they wanna buff staff ele=terrible for wvw
im also worried about our condition builds, they are already not that great compared to other classes….

lets hope we get new tools to play with, so we arent forced into phantasm/shatter builds that arent that great in wvw.

yes, I feel your pain
I’m taking the current meta and the last two unlucky matchups as an excuse to test new builds

(sadly, none of them is actually working better than my previous one)

yeah been working with kylias triforce build for a while as it grants more protection, retal, distortion and reflection, but this week i went back to glam with perplexity, as get to tag a little better, but changed the focus to reflect projectiles…at least i can use veil offensively aswell with that. too bad that i cant have my distortion trait with that so i get at least a little protection in arrowcart rains,mass aoe and necromarks spam meta.
i wish anet would fix wvw balance already and give mesmers and rangers a buff at the right places, so we can join the fun. whenever a commander asks mesmers to m up in chat for golem portals it around 3-5 out of 30+ people. the rest all plays warriors,necros and guardians. this statistic should tell anet that something is very very wrong with wvw balance.

can the make a purple legendary? plus im really sad that my ascended weapons are orange ewww. might go for celestial and transmute…well double the cost then XD

can someone tell me all the colors. i need rabid but im a mesmer and i like puple colors…orange just looks horrendous on it. i only know celestial is multi color, berseker is red i think…..what other colors are there?

yeah wvw with alliances would fix the stale matchups and bring quite some fun to wvw. please anet make this happen! this would fix the league problem.

but before that anet actually would need stable servers, make maps bigger, fix skill lag and balance.

Highre.5704:

JonathanSharp.7094:

The 3 different game types and splitting skills. Splitting skills between all 3 of our game types (PvE, PvP, WvW) is very costly – it takes more time to split the skills, and then upkeep the split skills.

It takes more time than what? Predicting the consequences of a (batch of) change(s) across all 3 balance areas? In the long run, hardly. The initial split takes a lot (?) of resources, but after that the work of the balance team would be a piece of cake (compared to the entangled cluster-puppy it is now).

JonathanSharp.7094:

Instead of upkeeping 1 version of a skill, whenever you make future changes, you now have to make sure all 3 are appropriately balanced for their respective game types.

So you’re saying when changing a skill it’s easier to find the sweet spot across all 3 areas (with the same number/coefficient/effect/whatever) than being able to tune the skill for each balance area individually? That seems like flawed logic to me. It’s less tech and QA work as it is right now, true. But the games balance would only benefit from the total split, because the 3 balance areas would no longer interfere with each other (what seems to be a problem, otherwise we wouldn’t have this discussion, right?)

JonathanSharp.7094:

This is very powerful, and something we did in GW1 when we felt we needed it. We just need to be careful not to do it too much, or it means the balance team is literally balancing 3 entire games.

I think it’s time to realize that this is exactly what you’re trying to do all along. (Player vs AI; large group vs large group; small group vs small group)

JonathanSharp.7094:

As Freamon (from “The Wire”, btw if you haven’t seen “The Wire”, stop whatever it is you’re doing and go watch it. Unless you’re giving birth. In that case…wait until you’re done, then watch it immediately afterwards. Oh, and get your new son/daughter to watch it when they’re old enough.) usually reminded the other members of the cast, “All the pieces matter.” The different pieces of GW2 all impact the other pieces, and it’s something we must always bear in mind.

And exactly this impact causes the troubles. The last time I checked the saying went something like ‘divide and conquer!’ rather than ‘monolithicy (that’s a word!) for the win!’

If you want me to take your efforts for balancing the game serious then be serious about it and convince the suite people upstairs that splitting the skills is the only serious long term decision.

very much agree with you. anet made 3 game modes and they all require different balancing. i know it does take a lot of time to do it, but it is important. if anet keeps buffing the classes only around spvp, wvw will suffer greatly.every day when a commander asks in ts to state the profession they are playing atm. it is mainly guardians and warriors very closely followed by necros and eles. i barely see an R for ranger poping up and when we portal golems its hard to find more than 3 mesmers.

so yeah finding a sweet spot for an easier balance is not an option at all! it is not working and the crazy stat of the warrior is proof of the balance fail

unless they implement alliances to match numbers, leagues will be a complete fail. lets say fa gets matched up with jq and sor, fa would need an alliance with either db or tc to match sor and jq would need a t4 -t6 server as an alliance. if mag gets matched up with tc, they would need either fa or better db (due to sea coverage) as an alliance or a t5 and another t3 server to compensate…

well plus we need a ton of fixes before leagues can actually work for wvw:

-skill lag
-lag
-exploits
-balance(balance classes not on spvp)
-siege
-siege masteries(a lot of them are too strong for current map setups and keep upgrades cant keep up with the masteries)