Guild Wars 2

SynfulChaot.3169:

DeathPanel.8362:

Leo G.4501:

DeathPanel.8362:

Wrong, you have yet to show how my analogy fails. Just like a job some don’t require a degree or experience like how some dungeons don’t require lvl 80s or good gear just like on the other hand some jobs do and some dungeons require 80 and good gear.

You have admitted yourself fractals require good gear, therefore you just admitted my statement regarding some dungeons requiring good gear was valid.

The only fail here is is your attempt at discrediting my statements.

Fractals are not dungeons. Dungeons are meant to be completed with effort. Fractals are gated. You can’t even succeed in higher level fractals AT ALL without rez tricks like revive orbs. Not even perfect (currently) gear will spell success there.

Wrong. Fractals IS a dungeon instance no matter how you try to twist it.

No one ever said good gear guarantees success. You just came up with that strawman by yourself.

In fact it was yourself that said fractals took good gear originally and I was just pointing out that you agreed with my point by saying that.

I only speak of sub-80s in the other dungeons. Fractals are designed for level 80s and sub-80s there truly cannot compare. Not wanting sub-80s in Fractals is understandable. It is when they are shunned in the other dungeons (where the recommended level is below 80) that it is a disgrace.

From my experience, Id tend to find the difference between a 60 and an 80 is noticeable, particularly in the more difficult bits like Dredge (prenerf) and legendary grawl at present, to a point where stats > skill.

But this argument that skill will always be greater than stats is completely flawed. I personally experienced dungeons early and made a concious decision to level to 80 and get decent gear before I hit them up again, because I didnt want to waste other peoples time. All I expect is that the same respect I have shown to others by doing this is extended to me. Im completely cool with people who want to carry and teach lower levels to do it, as long as it isn’t my time that is being wasted.

Laurel McFang.7159:

Robbyx.1284:

eremos.8142:

… but loot rolls are binary. Based on how much damage you do you get loot or you don’t. It doesn’t give better loot to those who do more damage.

Not true at all…..ive soloed the champ boar, wasp queen and troll several times and received no loot at all.

Exactly, it might be that there is a threshold at which point a binary value is roled to determine if the champ drop loot, but the loot table itself is still percentage based hence even if you qualify for loot you might still not get it. Btw if damage does effect drop rates with champs and dragons and dungeon bosses that would also significantly increase the chances for high dps characters getting precursors and other exotic gear.

Id tend to think that wasn’t true (the precursor bit).

If you thought pre 80 was boring, your in for a shock post 80.

My impression is that trash talkers in video games are usually the least skilled ones who managed to kill you 10v1. I get the impression that trash talking is an American thing. Im from Australia and its considered poor form to talk trash. Im sure we have some who talk trash none the less. Also, I have found that more than often “trash talking” is used as an excuse for bad conduct, when there was obviously no positive intention from anything that was said.

This is extremely poor conduct to use this. It is an exploit and it requires excessive use of manpower to combat it. Should be fixed, good luck with that though.

Ironvos.9014:

I really don’t see the point of these stat stack sigils in wvw.
The stack is removed when you get downed, which probably happens quite often.
A 5% damage sigil would be much more reliable.
Unless you are willing to kill 25 pve mobs everytime to charge up the sigils.
Or am i missing something here ?

Already have a 5% sigil on my pistol. Im running a full crit/damage build on a thief. It doesn’t take long to get full stacks. Kill a few PvE on the way over to rogues. Flip rogues (kill destroyers instead of ressing dredge). Kill that ele who thought they could 1v1 you. Excort the dredge. Kill a dolyak and the two upgarded guards. Flip the camp with dredge help. Catch up and kill that othe dolyak with his two guards. Full stacks were in effect quite some time ago. Despite having a high risk squishy build, I don’t die alot. The majority of my deaths would be from stealth bombing enemy siege.

Cactus, its not your computer or anything. We had a period last night were it looks like our entire server could not get into EB. This is during Oceanic were we are probably the weakest and our opponents are strongest. And we were doing relatively well holding +215PPT and were just behind SOS at +235PPT, which IMO is really good under the circumstances. And we done this by doing exceptionally well in EB and letting go of the borderlands. But then we all get kicked and told connection issues and cannot connect to EB whilst our keeps are being capped. Id really like to know what is causing this. We went down to like +115 PPT or something really bad like that because of this problem.

I sandboxed it last night. The issue that was causing the randomness… I only get stacks when the weapon with the sigil is being used. I have double dagger, double pistol. The sigil is on the dagger. If I get a kill with my pistols out, no stack. If I get a kill with my daggers out, I get a stack. So if I get max stacks on dagger, I can then switch to pistol and still have the stacks.

Well, there is a consumable in WvW which CCs you pretty badly. I consider that an exploit and most players consider it very poor conduct to use. Yet people use them and Anet don’t ban them. Yet they have banned people for exploiting TP mechanics, karma vendors etc, all stuff that I really don’t care about. I think Anet has a very different definition of exploit to what some of us do. This thread is a testament to that simply for its existence.

LittleMusing.8257:

sostronk.8167:

Trying to work out what BSOD means.

Blue screen of death. In other words, I crashed.

Ok good, thats much more clean than what I had starting to run through my imagination lol.

Anyone know whats going on? A tonne of players have been kicked out of EB. Its a bit frustrating. Its the one map we were winning well on tonight. Now Im asking around and no one on my server can get in and it is being capped out. I was in there and kicked for connection problem, which everyone else had the same experience. Now it won’t connect at all

Trying to work out what BSOD means.

UnderdogSMO.9428:

Delryn.7235:

Avatar.1923:

well, i fell 200% more comfortable with my guardian with only melee weapons for 95% of the content. and that means; i die less.

dunno what else to tell you.

Well, I feel 200% more comfortable with my necro with only ranged weapons for 100% of the content, and that means; I die less.

Even you who are clearly a godly player admit that even for the best of the best of the best, there is still that 5% that just kicks melee’s kitten while doesn’t really bother ranged.

As I said it’s not about one’s personal experiences, it’s not about one’s own skills – it’s about the game, the balance, and the difficulty in general. Get two players of equal skill, both of them above average players, give one ONLY melee weapons, give the other ONLY ranged weapons – the ranged will undoubtedly have a much easier time – THAT is what is wrong, THAT is what is unbalanced.

Well my guild leader is a necro who runs short range wepons and she has easly the most servivabuilty of any one i know. Life steal i think helps with this alot.

Also its not realy that unbalanced its true its often easyer to stay alive at range but you also do massively less damage and other than maybe nockback and cripples you loss alot of control

Top it off. My sword 1 skill hit 3 targets at one time most range 1 skills are only single target.

Necro can get up to around 35-36k health, then there is DS. Compare that to the thief getting around with 10k health, its quite high. Even the average class builds to around 20k health. Its not so much the lifesteal, but the vitality and toughness.

I agree with the OP, at least in the case of PvE. Most of the major open world events and dungeons, your better off with a ranged weapon. WvW and PvP I think the balance is fine between ranged and melee.

I made a profit on The Legend. It wasn’t necessarily intentional. I purchased it for 480g. Then I seen tonnes of people have them and started to wonder if I really wanted it. Then I seen the listing price at 690g. Then I found all these cool weapons that were less commonly used and what I wanted from a legendary above all else was a unique look. So I listed my precursor for 640g and it took about an hour to sell. After 96 gold in tax I had a profit of 64gold. Nothing to write home about. Flipping the TP seems to be better on low level stuff like materials in bulk, but its time consuming and I prefer to play the game.

Personally, Ill be really interested in the next MMO that makes crafting unique for each individual account and by this providing a way to make a profit in the TP. Ive made profit from crafting on one occasion just by accident when I stumbled upon a chef food recipe that I randomly did a check on and realised the cost to purchase the items to make the recipe was less than what it was to craft and sell it. I sold about 780 from memory and made a small amount of copper per recipe after tax. But what I want is for my crafting to be unique, or very limited, to the point where people want to purchase my crafting output on the TP.

Leo G.4501:

sostronk.8167:

Leo G.4501:

sostronk.8167:

Leo G.4501:

sostronk.8167:

Quite the opposite. Im talking about the difference between a level 11 and the same character at level 80 being scaled down to level 11.

What are you talking about? You mentioned Jade Maw and Shaman in Fractals, doing 100 dmg to them but when you got 80, doing 1000 damage more.

Don’t believe I understand what you’re talking about because your level 80 character will not be downscaled to level 11 when fighting Jade Maw or Shaman.

OH! Im talking about the Frozen Maw chain in Wayfarer.

Well what was the time difference? When was the thief being level that you’re comparing it too? What factors were involved during either fight? Were others applying vulnerability? Were might stacks involved? AFAIK, using some of my weapons in the same range on my lvl 80 elementalist, I’m hitting for around 200-400.

Most of the time he has full vulnerability stacks on him. As in from the 1000 odd times ive done it, he has full stacks of vulnerability on him for the duration of the event. I personally put on about 15 stacks of vulnerability as part of my pre damage output before I do the 3 burst skill, or less if hes already at max cap. Might varies. Its not this, ive already taken it into consideration. 6 stacks of might, last I have checked, doesn’t increase damage output buy over 1000%. The claim that downscaling is working is completely false. It might have made it a little closer recently, I agree, but it was already so much easier to do events and dungeons on an 80 than it was on a low level char.

There’s lots of factors involved though, like what were the factors when your thief was lvl 11? When was this? Was there any major updates to professions between that time and now? As for how easy or hard events are for lvl 80s/non-80s, familiarity with the profession also plays a role. How good were you with a thief back then? Have you optimized your rotation? Also remember, we’re talking about a level 11 character with 1-stat aspect gear and 1 trait point and minimal utilities. There aren’t any lvl 11 instances AFAIK. Dungeons start at level 30 which gives at least 20 skill points and up to 2 traits/2minor traits.

There’s a lot of factors involved and I’d prefer to go on hard numbers rather than just what you vaguely remembered at some point in time…

I created my thief about a week ago. Took me about 5 days to level to 80. So no major updates I believe. Ill do the math tonight, but Im pretty sure Im not going to get anywhere near 1000% damage out of my trait lines.

Leo G.4501:

sostronk.8167:

Leo G.4501:

sostronk.8167:

Quite the opposite. Im talking about the difference between a level 11 and the same character at level 80 being scaled down to level 11.

What are you talking about? You mentioned Jade Maw and Shaman in Fractals, doing 100 dmg to them but when you got 80, doing 1000 damage more.

Don’t believe I understand what you’re talking about because your level 80 character will not be downscaled to level 11 when fighting Jade Maw or Shaman.

OH! Im talking about the Frozen Maw chain in Wayfarer.

Well what was the time difference? When was the thief being level that you’re comparing it too? What factors were involved during either fight? Were others applying vulnerability? Were might stacks involved? AFAIK, using some of my weapons in the same range on my lvl 80 elementalist, I’m hitting for around 200-400.

Most of the time he has full vulnerability stacks on him. As in from the 1000 odd times ive done it, he has full stacks of vulnerability on him for the duration of the event. I personally put on about 15 stacks of vulnerability as part of my pre damage output before I do the 3 burst skill, or less if hes already at max cap. Might varies. Its not this, ive already taken it into consideration. 6 stacks of might, last I have checked, doesn’t increase damage output buy over 1000%. The claim that downscaling is working is completely false. It might have made it a little closer recently, I agree, but it was already so much easier to do events and dungeons on an 80 than it was on a low level char.

Oand Im talking about when the same ability on the same character doing the same event at level 11 compared to the same character at 80 and being downscaled to level 11.

Think about it though. What do you think would happen if they made downscaling was accurate? You would have a bunch of fully level and geared 80s coming in complaining about the difficulty in lower level events/dungeons. I experienced the upscaling in WvW as well. This is well off too.

Leo G.4501:

sostronk.8167:

Quite the opposite. Im talking about the difference between a level 11 and the same character at level 80 being scaled down to level 11.

What are you talking about? You mentioned Jade Maw and Shaman in Fractals, doing 100 dmg to them but when you got 80, doing 1000 damage more.

Don’t believe I understand what you’re talking about because your level 80 character will not be downscaled to level 11 when fighting Jade Maw or Shaman.

OH! Im talking about the Frozen Maw chain in Wayfarer.

I had a lol experience on the weekend. I was running with a modest sized zerg of about 25-30, sneaking around the back of hills in one of the BLs. There was a fight out the front and Hills was contested. I noticed a few people start to fall out the back of Hills. So we quickly rush forward to clean them up. But they just kept falling. Next thing we know there is a sea of players just falling off the back of hills. I swear to god there were over 100.

Leo G.4501:

sostronk.8167:

Are you high? You bring up downscaling, I talk about downscaling, then you tell me downscaling is not equal to upscaling…

Dungeons downscale all players to the appropriate level. Fractals upscale you to the required levels.

The way it was described is upscaled players will be made stronger and downscaled players would be made weaker.

Another test needs to be done because they are 2 different effects. We’re talking about the majority of dungeons that will dowsnscale a player’s stats to 45, 65, etc and the amount of difference between someone closer to that range and someone from 80 being scaled down to that range.

You’re talking about a low level being scaled UP in strength and, if what you describe is true, it won’t make you equivalent to someone who has access to all their gear’s stats…but when you’re downscaled, you don’t have the same access.

Two different things.

Quite the opposite. Im talking about the difference between a level 11 and the same character at level 80 being scaled down to level 11.

SynfulChaot.3169:

sostronk.8167:

Are you high? You bring up downscaling, I talk about downscaling, then you tell me downscaling is not equal to upscaling…

You were speaking of a sub-80 chara in Fractals. In Fractals, players are not downscaled to a certain level. They are all upscaled to 80. Thus my response.

I was speaking of all dungeons, like this thread is, not just fractals. Although since downscaling formula is so wrong, Ive no doubt upscaling is either.

Are you high? You bring up downscaling, I talk about downscaling, then you tell me downscaling is not equal to upscaling…

SynfulChaot.3169:

sostronk.8167:

Leo G.4501:

Honestly, I don’t give a kitten who you team with, sostronk. But I would like to put some light on obvious misconceptions people have with dungeons and how they are ran.

The least one can do is learn something from people attempting to spread knowledge.

Its not a misconception. They have lower stats on their characters and do not have the same survivability and damage output that an 80 does. Statistically you are worse off running a lower level. Scaling is not precise, everyone knows this.

Again, there is little stat difference due to the updated downscaling. The only real difference comes from traits.

When I was farming Maw to level my latest character, I was doing around 100 damage for a full burst from 3 skill of a dual pistol with my thief to the shaman boss. I still go there to do my dailys quickly before heading into wvw. I now do over 1100 damage from the same skill. Tell me about how this is a small statistical difference from downward scaling.

Leo G.4501:

Honestly, I don’t give a kitten who you team with, sostronk. But I would like to put some light on obvious misconceptions people have with dungeons and how they are ran.

The least one can do is learn something from people attempting to spread knowledge.

Its not a misconception. They have lower stats on their characters and do not have the same survivability and damage output that an 80 does. Statistically you are worse off running a lower level. Scaling is not precise, everyone knows this.

What I think needs to happen here, is people in defense of sub level 80s need to balance things out. When you post up your LFM on LFG website, ask for players only that aren’t level 80 yet. Meanwhile Ill only play with the level 80s and everything will be in balance.

Tier 1 and 2 seem to be pretty much settled. JQ, SOS and SOR in Tier 1. BG and Kain in Tier 2 at least, with BG a chance to pull Tier 1. Not sure about mid or low tiers.

I don’t want a Legendary weapon, but if I did want one, I think with prices the way they are at present it would be easier to buy on the TP. The price has gone down a fair bit recently.

If you saw me running an alt in a dungeon, you might pass me over due to me not running an 80.

Its a risk im willing to take.

Everything you listed are things that everyone has to do, regardless of class. Just saying.

Things change so quickly when it comes to guilds. Its hard to rate alot of guilds in this game, because they will literally recruit anyone just to make up the numbers and I don’t particularly like this. There isn’t a guild I have faced that I have been completely impressed with in every encounter I have had with them. The only exception I can think of is ND from SOS server. When I see them I take things a little more cautiously. Even with those guys though I recall winning some 1v2 and 1v3s.

Im probably rolling solo more often than in a group. It depends on the situation at the map at the time as to what I do. Sometimes I feel I can contribute more solo, other times with a group. Generally I start off solo and slap yaks and pick up a few players getting around to pick up supply. But the servers I play against tend to react to that by sending a small group after me. Then I also like to follow the enemy zerg and pick off stragglers at the rear because they are usually the easier ones to kill.

The thing is, one burst is 7-12k damage. Thats alot more than 5% for any class and build. AFAIK the necro can get up to maybe 36k health, which 5% is only 1800 damage, which is close to what my basic/auto attack is.

It would be hard to believe thats whats causing it though. When I am running with a zerg and run into a zerg, I almost always pop stealth and swirling dagger in the middle of the other zerg, which does around 7k damage per target. Then I stealth out and use P/P and spam 3 skill which does between 8k and 12k damage per target. Then walk away with 0 stacks. I would think thats whats causing it if I was rolling a low damage Necro, but a squishy full damage/crit thief?

Is anyone running this? Im not sure if it is bugged? Seems random. At first I noticed I wasn’t getting stack increases at all. Other times I would max it. Do only certain kills work? When I am playing PvE it seems to work how I expect it to.

SynfulChaot.3169:

sostronk.8167:

I wouldn’t do a dungeon with a sub level 80. I tried dungeons prior to 80 and realised the difficulty with them and decided to come back with a char at 80 and do them, which I have done. I don’t want to play with someone who is going to waste my time by slowing down the dungeon run. There are enough bad level 80s to do that. I don’t see why thats a big deal. Statistically speaking, playing with one or more sub level 80s is going to make the dungeon more difficult and take longer. I can measure that. I can’t measure a persons skill until they have either wasted my time or done what I expected them to do.

It is true that you cannot measure skill until you see them. You also cannot measure gear (I am STRONGLY against an inspect feature, BTW). Judging entirely by level is shortsighted as level tells nothing about how well a player will perform.

Give people a chance once. If it doesn’t work out, don’t party with them again. That way, you get what you want and you don’t come off as total kitten.

It does indicate how much experience they have in the game. Its not equal to skill, but it is an indicator. On my main alone, I am level 80 and over 300+ SP, so I have 380+ levels. Do I think my level 40 teammate is going to be anywhere near the same skill level as me? I highly doubt it.

CassieGold.7460:

Just to make this really clear: You want to forge Twilight, you’re okay with the cost of the 100 lodestones + the cost of the hundreds of ecto + the cost of the stacks of Orichalcum ingots you need…. but the cost of the precursor bothers you?

I have never understood this……

Lodestones are easy, you can farm cores and promote. Orichalcum is easy, log out, log in. Ectos take a little longer, but farming fractals can get alot of rares.

Thief and Ele are the best two obviously. If its organized group with voice I think Thief/Ele has best potential.

That said, from my experience where I have randomly teamed up with a ele haven’t been impressed with the ele. The best experience I have had is with thief/warrior. Could come down to skill or gear though.

As a thief main, I think the problem is with personal rewards. I often have to suicide bomb siege to take the pressure off my server. What do I get for it? I get broken armor I have to pay to repair. All the rewards go to my server, even the individuals that were busy farming up gold the entire time and haven’t set foot inside WvW other than to complain that there is no mesmer to port them in the JP for their badges and they need them for their legendary. I do this almost every day. Its hard if I dont. Im a roamer and I run solo. I get no recognition from anyone and they usually dont even know I did it. You could say counter treb, but not possible with a bunch of eles protecting them.

Ive been maining a thief recently. Switched over from a Necro. One thing I have learnt to fear is the Warrior, particularly is he is packing a mace. Warriors are the only class I will avoid 1v1s with. 1v1 a guardian was difficult when I first started off, but learnt you have to play them a bit differently.

Most thiefs are getting around with between 10k and 12k health. A warrior seems to be able to burst this down before I can get into stealth with the charge ability (cant remember the name – the one that leaps at you and knocks you down). Then if I do manage to get into stealth its ground slam F1 style for the finish.

It seems alot of players feel this too. Ive noticed a trend where I pick up a few dolyak kills and kill the players escorting them and the reaction is to send a warrior to deal with it.

Mesmers are no issue imo. I had trouble with them at first, then I realised that if you steal from them, you get every boon in the game.

Another tip, if you are a ranger or the likes and you think a thief is about to stealth, use a burst skill like rapid fire (LB) and the rest of the burst will still deal damage when they are in stealth.

As for stealth, there is about a 20 second gap if you chain together stealth abilities, where you are not going to be able to be in stealth (not including cloak and dagger or stealth on steal). Thats with a full crit build, which seems to do alot more damage than condition build.

I find dancing dagger exceptional on single targets in WvW. Most players try to avoid 1v1s vs a thief and cripple helps to make sure when I catch a roamer that they don’t get away.

I found in PvE at low levels double pistol / shortbow was best. Short bow for AoE farming and dual pistol for single target damage. It wasn’t until I hit 80 and started rolling WvW that I opted for dual dagger.

I also have 7 level 80 classes and levelling my last class now (mesmer). The thief has a bit more of a learning curve. They are also more squishy.. IE my build for a thief in WvW leaves him at ~11k health, whilst my necro has 34k health.

Im running P/P + D/D in WvW atm. Full crit exotic bersker + ascended build with runes of the scholar and deception and toughness in the traitline. Its extremely squishy, but it does so much damage. Im relatively new to the thief, but this last week Ive been playing him in WvW and for a char that only has around 11k health deception skills making him extremely survivable. To compare that to my Necro who has 34k health, Id take the Thief. But if your a “noob”, I dont know that I would recommend that build because it is pretty unforgiving.

I wouldn’t do a dungeon with a sub level 80. I tried dungeons prior to 80 and realised the difficulty with them and decided to come back with a char at 80 and do them, which I have done. I don’t want to play with someone who is going to waste my time by slowing down the dungeon run. There are enough bad level 80s to do that. I don’t see why thats a big deal. Statistically speaking, playing with one or more sub level 80s is going to make the dungeon more difficult and take longer. I can measure that. I can’t measure a persons skill until they have either wasted my time or done what I expected them to do.

DR seems to be a really random thing. I can only confirm with certainty that I have experienced DR on one occasion. I am an “extreme gamer”who plays over 60 hours a week. Alot of my time has been spent in the same area farming my 8 level 80s up (on my eigth one now).

My Sweet Lily.1952:

I believe amulets will be infusable in the future (26th, maybe). I think Anet wants us to get AR slowly so we can get deeper into Fractals slowly, not rushing.

My impression was they are looking to start moving away from Fractals. Its been there big baby for a long time. Now I imagine they are looking to move on and it was adding the ascended gear to a laurel/achievement vendor that gave me that impression.

Im getting the Laurel Ascended amulet today. But can I equip it now and infuse it later on? And on a side note, what infusion are people looking at? Those blue ones look pretty kitten good!

Alot of the legendarys look bad. Just throwing it out there, alot of weapons in the mystic forge with same stats and look better and less people have them, so its a more unique look for you. Just wish there were more weapon skins on the market / released by Anet.

I didn’t come to JQ until it was cool. It was probably cool because I came to JQ.

Considering a casual gamer plays about 8 hours a week, the best gear level is completely achieveable for them, at least in terms of stats. Most of the sink in this game comes from character customization (skins, legendarys etc). Obviously, if you go away for months without playing, you won’t be able to do that. The monthly is quite easy to get as well. I completed mine in the first 3 days, but had to wait two days until I had 5 daily achievements. Im not a casual gamer, but I have 7 character classes kitted with the best stats possible, but if your a casual gamer Id recommend sticking to one character and just working on gear acquisition with them. The Laurels were introduced so that the best gear was something that could be acquired by more people because not everyone can or wants to do FoTM.

I don’t think so. If you have a boon removal and have some dps in your composition he goes down reasonably quickly. Rabo is a boss before another boss. Could be that I see him that way, kind of like grawl with two boss’.

I get the feeling prices really surged for a while there and now people have what they want or they will hang off on paying so much. Do you think spending is going to decrease? As a sidenote, I recently sold my precursor because I just don’t think its going to get much higher. Maybe a tidy profit. Glad I don’t want a legendary! Personally for me, I have everything I want now except for the new ascended amulets so no more $$$ in the economy from me