Guild Wars 2

Current state of necro:

-For blobing is a zerker well bot.
-For pve extremely garbage. No group utility.
-For spvp fearmancer slightly op.
-For roaming: slow, easily ganked by superior numbers.

Problem with necro roaming is that the best 1v1 spec is slow as hell and has no leaps.

I would like to see a wvw map similar to pvp. A huge conquest map with lots of points with no gates. Where you just need to win fights to cap. Where if you make 1 blob cap and leave people will just backcap you.

IMO 8v8 is a good number.

If stronghold manages to catch wvw/gvg/pvx guilds attention it will easily be more popular than conquest mode.

New pvp mode finally. RIP conquest. New class, new sub classes. New meta.

PSILO.4068:

Seriously though, why not? If you know how to play and adapt your class to the given map/team comp/opposition team’s comp, well, this shouldn’t be an issue to all the esports pre-mades.

We still have Forest and Foefire…one bad, or out of place, player can throw a decent match in a heartbeat. (i.e. players going and dying to the npc’s)

And for all the kittens that’ll kitten about Skyhammer…the big red circle hurts, keep you back against the wall, or go mid, or bring stability. Adapt and overcome.

Hell, bring back Capricorn and let’s test these skills all around.

Variety…the spice of life…and the ‘meta-negater’!

I agree, we need more maps.

Neko.9021:

Seriously. Cele Ammy comes and now we get:
-Might nerfed
-Battle Sigil nerfed
-Drake’s Breath nerfed
-Lightning Whip possibly nerfed

Please. If you do these things, all it does is push the class further into Cele Bunker. Tone down Cele amulet before you start messing with all of our other stuff :/

-Might nerf is a great change reducting the dmg output across all professions
-Sigil of battle nerf was needed
-Drake’s Breath is still ok due to the such low cd
-Lightning whip is more of a bug fix and increasing the dmg for the ones not exploiting the stow weapon for more dmg.

Junkpile.7439:

Should i just push f2 random times or forget whole pet? It’s always lagging behind, die somewhere or you can’t see it anyways because of cluster kitten. Is there any good pets than would run around and kill stuff without dying whole time?

Pig’s F2 should be like elementalists’ conjure weapons. Summon one in the ground and 1 with the player.

Quadox.7834:

I don’t usually make topics, but pleeeeasssee pretty please make Krait Rune (6) bonus blockable/dodgable/invulned/blinded/.

To people saying it is not op: i agree 100% but counterplay is always good. Very few abilities, if any, should be undodable.

kthnxbai!

I agree with you.

Instead of free transfers they could make a sale on transfers, a 50% off weekend. People will still think twice before transferring because it is not free, but people that really want to transfer will be able to do so with a better price.

Ezeriel.9574:

Meglobob.8620:

Its funny reading this thread, essentially what’s being said is there are several summon builds for different classes but they are all useless/rubbish for playing GW2!

So that’s dozen’s of skills on different character classes, that 3 years later and countless balance patches are still no good in a lot of players eyes.

What have the balance team been doing in those 3 years?

It’s only because people keep pointing to the summon skills in gw2 so the OP has to keep repeating himself.

so to clarify…

There are professions that can summon in GW2, but that does not make them actual summoner classes. The necromancer in D2, puts the necromancer in GW2 to shame, and it’s because the necromancer in GW2 is based on the warlock in WoW.

A true summoner class lets it’s minions do all the work, and the closest GW2 has to that is a ranger using a heavy pet build, that stacks boons on the pet.

…but I don’t think it can be done in GW2, because at this point, the bad pet AI is becoming the stuff of legends.

One reason for them to keep summon builds completely useless is because they keep trying to make conquest mode esport.

This is another example of how focusing this mmorpg into becoming esport is hurting the game experience for the general playerbase.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

The answer is simply Esports. this game WILL be an esport, at ANY cost, even if they have to destroy PvE to get there.

I am pretty sure this will hurt the game more than anything else. Most people that I know would rather have more pvp modes than having the game pushing the failed idea of esport conquest mode.

JUN YANG.4328:

first of all, gw2 do have summon skill on different class. different races but
non of class can have summon build. the most possible is necro and guard

however necro’s minion got stupid AI and 2 years Anet still havent fix this issue.
for guard and ele even have new skill on spirit weapon and elementals. build summon build never work for this two class. CD time too long. : (

as i know summon build its like necro in diablo 2 even necro in Gw1 its much better.

The current state of AI/summon builds is bad. They all are useless in wvw and spvp. You can have some degree of success with a turret engi or MM necro against bad players. Overall they are underpowered builds and lose to other builds if the enemy know what they are doing. In pve anything works because bosses are braindead easy.

Spirit weapons need a major buff and work like minions, staying alive until someone kills them and not expiring with time. MM could get something to help it be viable in team fights and have more mobility.

Aggrostemma.1703:

xDudisx:

OK, we get your point! You like the full Cele build we don’t. If you have fun with it do it!

You must be a really good D/D cele ele I wont ever be (no sarcasm here I mean it).

What I don’t like in full celestial that the extra stats you get go to waste as you change attunement.

Let me explain please:
If you are in Air or Water your Condition Damage does nothing. You can have Doom sigil but it scales poorly. So your extra CondiDamage stat is only available 50% of the time (I know you are not forced to change attunement that often…)
If you are in Earth, Air or Fire you won’t get much benefit of your HealingPower. You have a trait what can proc Regen and your Healing Signet’s passive… That’s all!

Meanwhile the “non-cele” stats (Power-Precision-Ferocity-Vitality-Toughness) boost your damage and survivability in every attunement.

Long story short: can we agree that we don’t agree?

The direct dmg at water and earth is laughable. The signet and regen procs in all attunements.

I agree to disagree.

Thaddeus.4891:

Amiron.1067:

hybrid.5027:

Amiron.1067:

Uh… what trinity? I mean, they wanted a Control, Support, and Damage trinity, and the only one really present is Damage.

I didn’t know my Damage reflected projectiles, blinded trash mobs, put Deep Freeze on bosses, managed their Defiant stacks, cleansed conditions and granted stability. I guess I wasn’t using Support or Control after all!

The issue is the gearset. You did this all in berserker (and if you didn’t, you were a detriment to your team.) Which raises the question, why have any other gear stat combinations at all if none of them even compare in the slightest or have their uses in PvE instances?

You know exactly what I mean.

Your first argument was control and support is not there, only dmg. He responded to that. Now you are talking about gear, which is another issue.

Ok so why any othe gear stats exist right?

Half defensive gear like knight exist in PvE for ppl that learn the game, learn a profession or just play casual and just want a easier pve experience. A lot of ppl, including all those zerker elistist (like me) used those gear as learning wheel and I’m glad they exist.

Condition gear is very good in solo situation and should be good in PvE, but there is an issue with condition itself in PvE that need to be fixed. Everybody know it and want it. From the casual necromancer to that elistist that solo lupi in a min.

After that a lot of gear is really good in WvW, but maybe you don’t count that huge part of the game?

Condi gear really good at wvw?! All the gvg and zerging meta is power based. Conditions only work in small scale roaming and spvp.

Stark.1350:

The “trinity” system is an archaic system that needs to go away.

So you are saying something is bad just because it is old? Democracy is old too and I dont see people questioning that just because it is old.

Lots of new games are releasing with trinity system or some variation of it. Also the most successful games have it.

fishball.7204:

That guy wants a ‘trinity’ MMO, he clearly wants to mold the current GW2 into his own little trinity MMO and any amount of logic won’t make it through his thick skull

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/the-trinity-system-in-gw2/4716314

If logic for you is post randon fallacious arguments than you have a problem, not me.

Tiffany.8576:

Check link in my sig for some typical staff ele armor setups. Celestial is for sure non-optimal. It’s not terrible, but you can do better by min-maxing around your needed stats with other pieces. That’s the beauty of WvW compared to sPvP.

I personally run full zerk on staff and don’t have much of a problem. You just need good positioning and to make good use of your escapes.

In a 1v1 your zerker will get kitten d by any competent player. In a blob you can run even naked an survive.

Lishtenbird.2814:

xDudisx.5914:

This summary was made by 1 player and is very biased for his point of view.

xDudisx.5914:

You know that the forums are not a good sample size for the entire community?

Therefore, it might be that your assessment of the summary is biased instead.

Look at the summary:

In favor arguments have 1 line
Against arguments have 1 paragraph detailing and explaining his point of view.

Make your conclusions.

I am not the one claiming that the forum represents the community. The other guys is.

Thaddeus.4891:

xDudisx.5914:

You know that the forums are not a good sample size for the entire community? Also the demography in the forums in different from the game. For example here we have lots of pvp players while in the game it is not really popular.

Not fair, i’ll tell my mom. If you can give bullkitten argument, i want to be able to do the same. You’re no fun.

You are the one presenting no real argument. Even devs have already said that the forums is not a good representation of the playerbase.

hybrid.5027:

xDudisx.5914:

hybrid.5027:

xDudisx.5914:

Thaddeus.4891:

xDudisx.5914:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

xDudisx.5914:

The problem is that is basically the same build for all the dungeons.

The problem is not a problem. The problem is the way you are approaching the problem.

I disagree with you. I think it is a problem. Look at spvp for example, they are trying to promote more builds to become viable every update.

Exactly, more —>‘’ BUILDS ’’<--. Bezerker is not a build, its a gear. You already have several builds for most profession. You can say hey it would be nice to have even more good choice (especially for warrior, which don’t have that much), or to make condition viable in PvE. But to say that zerker meta is a problem. pfff

This is like saying that there is celestial meta in spvp….

Your “build diversity” consists in basicaly 1 or 2 builds that are almost the same, with same stats, mostly the same utilities, rune set and sigils. Are all direct dmg based.

guardian 1 build just swap utilities
mesmer 2 builds
ranger 1 build
necro 0 build
ele 2 builds that changes just s/f for a staff and very few traits
warrior : this one actually has a good trait/skill variety, but again the same stats.

Guardian has at least 3 optimal trait set ups depending on the encounter
Mesmer has 3 (at least)
Ranger has 1
Necro has 2
Ele has at least 6, can be 12 depending on how you count variants like 66200 staff vs 64220 staff.
warrior has 2
thief has 4

You are calling very minimal changes a completely new build just to increase the number of “builds”

Isn’t it awesome how when you define the term “build” exactly how you need to define it to fit your narrow argument that you can carry any debate? I really love your rhetoric.

Oh so now you want to create a new definition of build. If I change the color of my armor does it also makes a new build for you?

You must be blind to dont see that all your “builds” are basically all the same for all the classes focusing in: direct dmg+ direct dmg %+might+vul+ might

At least anet has been doing a great job in the recent past updates:

-nerf fgs
-nerf norn elite
-nerf ferocity
-new content with bosses that you cant crit
-new content with bosses that you need to use condis
-nerf might incoming next week

keep going Anet

Thaddeus.4891:

xDudisx.5914:

I support 100% the trinity system. The problem is that you cant have a tank without aggro generation controlled by the player. They could create sigil/runes of aggro generation. Maybe some weapon skills could generate aggro, like a guardian/warrior mace or shield. Or give mace/shield passive aggro generation.

One problem with the lfg system you proposed is that the light/medium/heavy armor are not relater with been tankier or not.

When will you understand that this game is not and will never be a Trinity game. There is a lot of trinity MMO out here can we at least have one that is the same copy paste?

Ok lets start a count of ppl that aggree or disagree with Lishtenbird’s summary. I agree so

Agree : 2
Disagree :1

You know that the forums are not a good sample size for the entire community? Also the demography in the forums in different from the game. For example here we have lots of pvp players while in the game it is not really popular.

Thaddeus.4891:

What I use on my guardian (rotate between 12 different utilities):
-4/6/2/0/2 GS+Sw/F : its my basic dungeon build
- 4/5/0/0/5 GS+Sw/F : Use it in several dungeon when we need more reflect like SE path 3
- 3/5/0/4/2 Hammer : In fractal
- 6/6/0/0/2 or 4/6/0/0/4 Sceptre/Focus+torch : Lupi

Are you sure xDudisx that you are not confounding builds and role?

You said 12 builds and list 4. And all of them with the exception of 1 are pretty much the same.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Here’s a summary of the hundreds of previous threads on the subject:

Lishtenbird.2814:

4. HOLY TRINITY

[~] Threads for reference:

• Holy Trinity Is Called “Holy” For A Reason
• In my view, the Trinity Needs to Come Back
• No Holy Trinity = Boring?
• The Holy Trinity… is missed.
• Holy Trinity Contradiction
• Holy trinity of mmo
• Combat roles, no trinity…
• Lack of trinity makes this game boring I think

[+] Arguments in favour:

• That other game has it; we’ve seen it done there and enjoyed it.
• No Holy Trinity means no dedicated roles. No roles means no distinct place for you in the world and no way to master your role, which in turns means boring gameplay.
• Absence of dedicated roles leads to issues with gear diversity, such as “zerk meta”.
• Trinity provides easier ways to create new encounters, including challenging ones.

[-] Arguments against:

• That other game also has the frustration of waiting for a certain type of player, gear treadmill, open-world PvP and other things which spice up the life for some players while annoying other players. GW2 is a different game which caters to less competitive players: you can play what you want and how you want (and complete it at your own pace) – which is what makes GW2 loved by many people who bought the original “revolutionary” MMO.
• As easy as it seems, combat in GW2 is rather deep and has a lot of room for self-improvement and “fun”. Further reading: GW2: official Blogpost about the Holy Trinity – the philosophy behind no holy trinity explained by developers. Dungeon speedclear videos can tell you about tactics, guides – about builds and rotations which provide best class synergy; sPvP has variety of builds, team compositions and map tactics and tricks are very important there; WvW roaming is unique – all this requires different sets of skills, traits, weapons and tactics which become better if you’re in the right party, even if there’s no trinity.
• Constraints are fun for some; freedom is fun for others. You can be a healing WvW thief, a buffing DPS ele, an unkillable Nomad troll warrior – your role is up to you to decide, but you will still be able to complete content because the game doesn’t pigeonhole you into a single role.
• Instead of one gear meta for all players, there will be one meta for each trinity class – and nothing will really change.
• Absence of holy trinity is refreshing. It also allows to bring new types of encounters which benefit from non-trinity mechanics.

[=] Current state of affairs:

• “Holy Trinity” threads are often met with negativity because players are already enjoying the game the way it is and do not see a reason to scrap the old established system which is fairly unique in favour of a generic one. Minor changes to things like condition caps or mob AI sound like better ways of gameplay improvements.

You may also try searching the forum for the previous threads, for this see this sticky.

This summary was made by 1 player and is very biased for his point of view.

Sylent.3165:

So I’ve read a lot of posts about how this game doesn’t have the trinity in the game which is a great thing. However it seems the players themselves made a trinity. Warrior, guardian, elementalist.

Often times other classes such as ranger are simply just ignored. Because of this instead of a tank, dps, and healer role shouldn’t we try something else?

Why not enter a queue that needs 2 heavy armors, 2 medium and 1 light(just an example)

Why make a game with no trinity that still has a trinity player made that shuts out so many people.

I remember when the game came out no one cared what class you were making the game fun. But those days are gone now. The queue was only a suggestion to. Premade parties of 5 warriors can still be made for people that can’t spend an extra 5 minutes in the dungeon and a player queue could combine all servers.

Thoughts? And again yes Premade parties are fine, but a dungeon finder queue can be for everyone else.

I support 100% the trinity system. The problem is that you cant have a tank without aggro generation controlled by the player. They could create sigil/runes of aggro generation. Maybe some weapon skills could generate aggro, like a guardian/warrior mace or shield. Or give mace/shield passive aggro generation.

One problem with the lfg system you proposed is that the light/medium/heavy armor are not relater with been tankier or not.

hybrid.5027:

xDudisx.5914:

Thaddeus.4891:

xDudisx.5914:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

xDudisx.5914:

The problem is that is basically the same build for all the dungeons.

The problem is not a problem. The problem is the way you are approaching the problem.

I disagree with you. I think it is a problem. Look at spvp for example, they are trying to promote more builds to become viable every update.

Exactly, more —>‘’ BUILDS ’’<--. Bezerker is not a build, its a gear. You already have several builds for most profession. You can say hey it would be nice to have even more good choice (especially for warrior, which don’t have that much), or to make condition viable in PvE. But to say that zerker meta is a problem. pfff

This is like saying that there is celestial meta in spvp….

Your “build diversity” consists in basicaly 1 or 2 builds that are almost the same, with same stats, mostly the same utilities, rune set and sigils. Are all direct dmg based.

guardian 1 build just swap utilities
mesmer 2 builds
ranger 1 build
necro 0 build
ele 2 builds that changes just s/f for a staff and very few traits
warrior : this one actually has a good trait/skill variety, but again the same stats.

Guardian has at least 3 optimal trait set ups depending on the encounter
Mesmer has 3 (at least)
Ranger has 1
Necro has 2
Ele has at least 6, can be 12 depending on how you count variants like 66200 staff vs 64220 staff.
warrior has 2
thief has 4

You are calling very minimal changes a completely new build just to increase the number of “builds”

ChoChoBo.6503:

I love WvW, but when I’m in a bad matchup (*cough cough NA t3) I go to EotM for my WvW fix.

Whenever I am in EotM, there’s either the k-train commander or the bag-train commander. And say the map I’m on is the bag-train commander and the group following would rather k-train. Instead of a second person tagging up, the group flames the bag-train commander till either he starts k-training or tags down. Or vice-versa.

Is it a preference thing? Or does one give better loot that the other?

Which do you guys prefer? K-train? Bag-train?

Which is the most profitable?

*If you have the biggest zerg and can done a properly karma train you get:

more exp
more wvw exp
more champ bags (they give better loot that upscaled bags)
ranking up in wvw you get 20silver +rare/exotic

*If you sit defending:

you get more player loot bags, mostly are low lvl though…
there is a risk of the enemy k train to just avoid your keep after 2 or 3 wipes.

*If you mix ktrain with bag far:

can give good exp/loot
can fail and make you lose numbers (you dont win everytime)
can make you run out of things to cap and the enemy moves to other overflow

Thaddeus.4891:

xDudisx.5914:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

xDudisx.5914:

The problem is that is basically the same build for all the dungeons.

The problem is not a problem. The problem is the way you are approaching the problem.

I disagree with you. I think it is a problem. Look at spvp for example, they are trying to promote more builds to become viable every update.

Exactly, more —>‘’ BUILDS ’’<--. Bezerker is not a build, its a gear. You already have several builds for most profession. You can say hey it would be nice to have even more good choice (especially for warrior, which don’t have that much), or to make condition viable in PvE. But to say that zerker meta is a problem. pfff

This is like saying that there is celestial meta in spvp….

Your “build diversity” consists in basicaly 1 or 2 builds that are almost the same, with same stats, mostly the same utilities, rune set and sigils. Are all direct dmg based.

guardian 1 build just swap utilities
mesmer 2 builds
ranger 1 build
necro 0 build
ele 2 builds that changes just s/f for a staff and very few traits
warrior : this one actually has a good trait/skill variety, but again the same stats.

The video is clearly a speed hack. The problem is that the only way Anet can ban them right now is looking case by case. The report system also is not very good. In spvp the are rare to see, but in pve/wvw they are getting everyday more common.

There are so many stats out of the meta. Who said zerker is the priority or should be?
I dont see anyone running knights, valkryrie, assassin, barbarian, etc…

You know that that nerf is stronger for warriors than for eles right? Also people blobing lost a lot of the dmg in their bomb with 25stacks…..

Might nerf is a great change

the krytan assassin.9235:

Same crit dmg, armor,
More healing power, more condi, more hp
A bit less critical chance, swap doom for bloodlust and you cover the power loss.

The extra healing you get makes a massive difference. Only on signet is +30hp per cast, add water attunement, cleansing wave etc, regen,…

Celestial outperform your mixed in all aspects without even factoring condis.

Plz if you want to correct me do it ATLEAST with some real numbers, full cele has 180 less armor, crit dmge+crit chance are kinda the same. power is 250 lower. Health is 2.9k higher however having 16k+2.5k applied fortitude is already more then enough so basically this extra amount of health is unnecesery. Condition dmge has a small uptime, alot of condition removal+condi duration reduce so channeling 3 sec of drake breath is pure waste. so having -310 condition dmge aint that bad. The extra healing in celestial build is quite nice i need to agree on that and will provide some extra surviveability, however the higher toughness will almost balance this out.

Basically you’re claiming that celestial has more stats, i can agree on that point, however you can’t just forget about the fact that some stats are more important then others. While celestial provides alot of useless stats where the other build provides around 10% more damage. Also like i stated earlier on in my comment, you need a certain amount of DPS to actually put pressure on your enemies. when going full cele that 10% damage drop often makes the difference btween being able to put enough pressure on the enemy or not. Also when you’re putting enough pressure on the target he will position and act more defensively giving yourself more time to use your heals aswell.

Oh and btw PLZ stop making a fool of yourself by randomly adding in sigil of bloodlust and start claiming that you have the same amount of power. I choose for sigil of doom because this will provide alot more pressure on the enemy since it’s the condition is pretty hard to remove in combination with the fact that it will put up -33% healing and a nice 100dps. Stats aren’t evrything it’s the balance of your skills stats sigils and runes that actually make a difference between builds.

[/quote]

Now you are looking dumb. The build you posted and the one I posted have the same armor. If you need more than 2.6k armor now that is a l2p issue.

You know how easy is to remove the poison? Oh you dont even consider a burning skill that reapplies every second but you are considering poison on 9s cd? If you are talking about vs a class that wont clear condis then celestial is even more stronger than your build.

the krytan assassin.9235:

There is a difference between WvW builds and sPvP builds. Celestial ele is good in sPvP primarily due to the low amount of stats provided. Because the low amount of stats you can easily survive when running full celestial while running at a raw power equal to your oponents due to mightstacking. Also your oponent (incase he doesn’t run celestial) will have to choose wether to go offensive or defensive stats, in both cases you can easily counter him because you have a fairly decent dps in combination with surviveability.

In WvW however you have alot more stats (~1300 stats more when running non cele gear) because wvw has alot more stats that means that the difference between your low power and the power of the oponent will increase, incase you pop might you will still end up putting up less power compared to the enemy, let alone the fact that WvW uses might alot more frequently. Because your low power you’re unable to put a decent amount of pressure on the enemy and therefore he can keep on going on full focus on you. you’ll end up running and dodging all the time because your DPS is to low. Also the enemies will be more balanced out since they are able to get both offensive and defensive statts outbeating the celestial in both terrains.

incase you go WvW i’d advice to get
2k attack
2.6k armor
500 healing
15k hp
40% crit chance
175% crit dmge

Although full cele might be a lillbit more forgiving due to it’s high vitality. When mastered the D/D ele you can unlock more potential by splitting up your gear in different stats.
For example you can take something like this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQJAoYhcMKcW5wzBd0APAC5fv2JKQ5qJfC-TFTHABcs/ARKDITPwiqcwnqAOpE8HlQFpUogHAQTKZAUNEAOBABAQAuZbGAH9oH9oH9odzbezbezbWKAzVGB-w
(furios sharpening stones good option if you change build abit)
I did put some celestial in aswell, because the extra amount of stats obtained by using celestial is quite nice, however you need to make sure that your other stats are still balanced out.

For staff ele condition damage is pretty much the most pointless stat ingame since the staff ele doesn’t have that many conditions aswell as the fact that most of these conditions will be instantly removed by enemyzergs. The healing power will contribute abit to your surviveability, however it doesn’t boost your heal skill that much (only signet of restoration get a big boost by stacking healing) your attunement swap and dodge roll will effect abit but compared to the amount of hp you get from blasts etc is much higher making the extra heal on swap/dodge pretty useless.
When taken into account that healing+condi barely matter as a staff ele, non celestial will already provide more stats then celestial. When taking celestial you can’t distribute any of your remaining stats while you can balance out if you don’t pick celestial. again the low power will be the bottleneck in your build losing alot of dmge potential. When going for example soldiers+berserker you can pick a nice balance between your stats and the power won’t bottleneck you anymore providing alot more damage in the end.

For staff build i’d say that it depends on the playerskill aswell as formation you run in and the amount of enemy gankers. because you’ll encounter different situations you should have multiple armor sets to fully adapt to the current situation. The metabattle build is a good example of “the average situation”. In some cases the metabattle build wont be the most efficient and you’ll have to go more tanky/zerker, however in almost every single case going to celestial will result in a drop of efficiency.

OVERVIEW AND UPCOMING PATCH
In the end Celestial is just a complete joke for more advanced players in WvW, it’s fairly good for beginners since the build is really forgiveable. Also take into account that the upcoming update will nerf your mightstacks. the total loss of raw power will be around 4 stacks of battle sigil loss and 15 stacks of might. Combining these together will result in a total loss of power of :4×30+15x5=195 power, this will further nerf the current celestial build and therefore you should only adapt a small amount of celestial in your D/D build, for staff it’s not worth it in general.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQJAoYhcMacW4wzBf0AAAAZMSZA-T1BEABScCA0S5Xf6BA4BAIoSQMV/Jm9HCAcA8bfDglXe5lXe5+93fXe5lLFATKjA-w

Same crit dmg, armor,
More healing power, more condi, more hp
A bit less critical chance, swap doom for bloodlust and you cover the power loss.

The extra healing you get makes a massive difference. Only on signet is +30hp per cast, add water attunement, cleansing wave etc, regen,…

Celestial outperform your mixed in all aspects without even factoring condis.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

xDudisx.5914:

The problem is that is basically the same build for all the dungeons.

The problem is not a problem. The problem is the way you are approaching the problem.

I disagree with you. I think it is a problem. Look at spvp for example, they are trying to promote more builds to become viable every update.

Novuake.2691:

Dedlaw.9130:

Novuake.2691:

xDudisx.5914:

Sirendor.1394:

Who wants levels going back to 20? ~a million hands raised~
Who wants level cap to be raised? ~people throw bricks~

I doubt you have any data to prove that supposition.

WHAT!? Hell go search the forums. 19 of 20 people(EASILY more) against level cap raising.

And if you want MORE traits, since that is all most people want from more levels.
They already change the trait system, I am sure they can and will do more if needed.

A few things:

Firstly, making up numbers doesn’t help when person you are replying to has already pointed out the lack of data to prove the numbers.

Secondly, game forums usualy just consist of a small percentage of the people actually playing the game. A vocal minority is not an accurate representative of a whole demographic.

Its a good indication.

With this mentality you can not get any sort of accurate representation EVER.

Kitten I hate this kind of thinking, you can disprove or prove anything with a bit of skepticism of a “slice” of community.

The groups that frequent the forum are not necessarily a good sample of the player base. The numbers are a small fraction and the kind of player that frequents the forum is not necessarily the same that plays the game

cillard.3986:

I am confused at to why balance changes are going live in the next patch that will affect the game as a whole when the issues that generated to problems are mainly isolated to sPvP. We all get that certain classes are problematic in sPvP when celestial amulet stats are combined with might stacking, but this simply isn’t the case in the rest of the game.

My worry is that many of these changes will impact things negatively in every other aspect of the game. Why not just make some of these balance changes to sPvP only as that is the only place they are applicable?

Disclaimer: If you are actually implementing these changes in sPvP only, I did not see where that was communicated, so I apologize.

Thanks

Because they keep pushing us the non popular conquest mode and trying to make it esport. This ends up creating problem for all the other game areas and preventing us from getting new pvp modes.

cillard.3986:

Don’t get me wrong, celestial is very good small man or solo …..but it isn’t dominate in WvW the way it is in sPvP. In fact, I see very few celestial eles in WvW that actually use the gear set the right way. Most think they can just do what they do in sPvP and find the same success. I eat those guys for lunch.

When I log my ele I hardly ever die in a 1v1, unless facing something super rare like a perplexity fearmancer that knows how to play. Even in zergs you will only die if outblobed or if dumb enough to stay in a bomb.

Also normal in wvw it is easier to kill players because the skill lvl is in most cases lower than in spvp.

The problem is not having 1 optimal build for a dungeon. The problem is that is basically the same build for all the dungeons. Making changes in some bosses or all the bosses in some paths create space for more usage of the other gear.

alanis.6094:

xDudisx.5914:

ArrDee.2573:

I think a lot of these issues can be solved by simply moving Power Wrench to grandmaster tier! It would reduce the damage of Prybar, which hits for like 3-5k with might stacks on a cele build lol, and it would make it so you can’t trait for 20 second Magnets and 16 second Gear Shields unless you give up Alchemy sustain, which you won’t and shouldn’t! After all, Tool Kit is one of the most powerful kits the Engineer has and is definitely deserving of grandmaster status! We can then swap Gadgeteer to the master tier which would buff gadgets! But not really since Gadgeteer is absolutely balls! We all know gadgets need more buffs!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Moving it to grandmaster?! So toolkit would require 6 points to become good. Engis already need 6 points to make grenades become good. We can’t make every single engi skill require 6 trait points to become decent.

Yah, because untraited TK isn’t “good” or “decent”. C’mon, be realistic.

Yah, becuase a mere -20% cooldown in 1 kit skill should be grandmaster. C’mon, be relaistic.

Rally should work only for 1 character, the downed guy that did the most dmg for the enemy when it was up. Makes pve a bit harder and wvw rely less in rally on badies.

ArrDee.2573:

I think a lot of these issues can be solved by simply moving Power Wrench to grandmaster tier! It would reduce the damage of Prybar, which hits for like 3-5k with might stacks on a cele build lol, and it would make it so you can’t trait for 20 second Magnets and 16 second Gear Shields unless you give up Alchemy sustain, which you won’t and shouldn’t! After all, Tool Kit is one of the most powerful kits the Engineer has and is definitely deserving of grandmaster status! We can then swap Gadgeteer to the master tier which would buff gadgets! But not really since Gadgeteer is absolutely balls! We all know gadgets need more buffs!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Moving it to grandmaster?! So toolkit would require 6 points to become good. Engis already need 6 points to make grenades become good. We can’t make every single engi skill require 6 trait points to become decent.

insanemaniac.2456:

Sagat.3285:

Engi CC,condition and boon duration are too long. Confusion,vulnerability,swiftness,retaliation,regen need duration shave and the CC need new animation.

im confused about the boon duration part. are you referring to turret engis? the only boon celengi builds abuse is battle sigil’s might.

People are trying to get all the positive effects from all builds and say it is on celestial rifle hahahaha. Maybe they should also say that engis have pets, clones, virtues, banners, can 1shot from 5k range, perma stealth,etc..

Just a apathetic attempt to get rage against the engi class.

SobeSoul.6910:

xDudisx.5914:

SobeSoul.6910:

xDudisx.5914:

ResJudicator.7916:

Full celestial ele is not optimal in WvW, even in 1v1s, because of the interaction of food buffs. The reason celestial ele is so powerful in sPvP is because (1) you maintain a LOT of pressure through high burning + poison uptime that let’s you outsustain your opponent; and (2) you have less control over your stat allocation; and

In WvW, almost every non-condi class will run lemongrass poultry for -40% condi duration, which means your burning and poison won’t last as long. To the point where it’s not even worth taking sigil of doom, which means your only real damage is coming from burning. On top of that, most of the builds you’ll be running against in WvW will have more condi clear (SA thieves, PU mesmers) so burning won’t stick nearly as long as it does against the meta builds you see in sPvP.

Unlike in sPvP, you generally can’t rely on out-sustaining your opponent in WvW because there’s no incentive for your opponent to stay in a losing fight. Most people will just back off and reset, with nothing lost. Or, during your 2-3 minute long fight, your opponent’s teammates come in and force you to retreat.

Against condi builds, you definitely need a lot more power damage to quickly take them down before their condis wear you down.

With full celestial, you’re basically trading burst damage and survivability for a moderate increase to burning damage. Not worth it.

Another reason celestial is less useful in WvW is that, unlike in sPvP, you have a lot of control over how you allocate stat points in WvW. I would recommend a focus primarily on zerker/knight/soldier (adjust between tankiness<—->damage depending on how good you are at avoiding damage, what kind of builds your teammates run and how good they are at peeling for you, what kind of role you want to play for your team, etc.). Don’t get me wrong — it definitely makes sense to take a few pieces of celestial as needed to round out the stat spread you’re aiming for. But going full celestial is almost never a good idea for WvW unless you’re doing no food/oil duels in Obsidian Sanctum or something.

Celestial is still optimal for 1v1 duels even factoring food. Btw celestial even not counting condi still more stats than normal stats. Mix stuff will just nerf you. With a mixed stat ele you wont be able to 1v1 outlast a celestial ele with the same skill lvl.

You are not trading dmg and survivability for only condi. You can mix as much as you want you will end up lacking in other are and end up having less survibability or less dmg than cele.

Example:

celestial ascended helmet 22*7 = 154 stats
other stat helmet = 47+34+34=115

Even if you make 0 use of condi dmg (which is not the case) you still have more stat. You can mix in such a way you will have more healing power, thoughness, vit, crit dmg, ferocity, etc than celestial. You try to spread out with mix and lose stats and lack in other areas.

obs: talking purely about 1v1/small scale

This is slightly untrue.

Pair equally skilled eles in a duel. The one with more power based stats have an advantage over the celestial based on the fact the amount of condi cleanse available in the ele’s defensive kitten nal.

Burning doesn’t have as much value against other eles as opposed to say engies with limited condi removal.

Even if you completely ignore condi dmg (wich is not the case) celestial still has more stats.

More stats in what respect?

You can out perform on a power basis while maintaining the general stats of celestial. Even if you lower healing power by 100 or so, it doesn’t really nerf the sustain in a 1v1.

You can argue as much as you want. Celestial is superior in 1v1s. You wont be able to kill a celestial in a duel with your mixed build.

Simon.3794:

xDudisx.5914:

Simon.3794:

xDudisx.5914:

Simon.3794:

xDudisx.5914:

Nerf engi without first nerfing fire/air sigil combo would be a dumb move.

What, how are they even related

fire air is pretty much the only thing that can seperate a zerker engi from cele rifle right?

Nerfing engi/war/ele without nerf broken sigil of air/fire thives+mesmer with their low risk high reward builds will be terrible for the game.

while at it, nerf every zerker build as well as your own zerker build.
and cele builds will still be less risk more reward at holding points.
they don’t even play the same role.

sorry but balance isnt involved around WvW and dualing.

Celestial needs to stay as a viable stat in spvp. If they nerf engi even more we have the risk of zerker cancer become even more abundant in spvp. Sigil of air and fire are even more passive than battle and doom.

Keep defending your passive sigils.

first of all, i don’t play zerker, as in they are not viable other then thief and i don’t play mesmer. and my main is non of them.

second of all, thieves and mesmer already lose to celes 1v1 on point

3rd of all, nerf fire air would only shave every other already bad zerker classes to be even worst.

4th of all, you are clearly brainlessly defending your cheese (yes my main also uses cele build and im not biased unlike you) as in you wish to nerf the only thing that can differenciate zerker engi and cele engi as in you wish to output damage like zerker even more while staying celely tanky.

5th of all, i would careless about cele disapparing, i would actually love to see more build diversity more roles and different comp then one build does all from condi pressure to healing to condi clear to spike to mobility.

More build diversity by making 1 stat completely nerfed to oblivion? Nice logic.
Also engis are pretty balanced and one of the highest if not the highest skill cap in build wars 2.

Simon.3794:

xDudisx.5914:

Simon.3794:

xDudisx.5914:

Nerf engi without first nerfing fire/air sigil combo would be a dumb move.

What, how are they even related

fire air is pretty much the only thing that can seperate a zerker engi from cele rifle right?

Nerfing engi/war/ele without nerf broken sigil of air/fire thives+mesmer with their low risk high reward builds will be terrible for the game.

while at it, nerf every zerker build as well as your own zerker build.
and cele builds will still be less risk more reward at holding points.
they don’t even play the same role.

sorry but balance isnt involved around WvW and dualing.

Celestial needs to stay as a viable stat in spvp. If they nerf engi even more we have the risk of zerker cancer become even more abundant in spvp. Sigil of air and fire are even more passive than battle and doom.

Keep defending your passive sigils.

Simon.3794:

xDudisx.5914:

Nerf engi without first nerfing fire/air sigil combo would be a dumb move.

What, how are they even related

fire air is pretty much the only thing that can seperate a zerker engi from cele rifle right?

Nerfing engi/war/ele without nerf broken sigil of air/fire thives+mesmer with their low risk high reward builds will be terrible for the game.

SobeSoul.6910:

xDudisx.5914:

ResJudicator.7916:

Full celestial ele is not optimal in WvW, even in 1v1s, because of the interaction of food buffs. The reason celestial ele is so powerful in sPvP is because (1) you maintain a LOT of pressure through high burning + poison uptime that let’s you outsustain your opponent; and (2) you have less control over your stat allocation; and

In WvW, almost every non-condi class will run lemongrass poultry for -40% condi duration, which means your burning and poison won’t last as long. To the point where it’s not even worth taking sigil of doom, which means your only real damage is coming from burning. On top of that, most of the builds you’ll be running against in WvW will have more condi clear (SA thieves, PU mesmers) so burning won’t stick nearly as long as it does against the meta builds you see in sPvP.

Unlike in sPvP, you generally can’t rely on out-sustaining your opponent in WvW because there’s no incentive for your opponent to stay in a losing fight. Most people will just back off and reset, with nothing lost. Or, during your 2-3 minute long fight, your opponent’s teammates come in and force you to retreat.

Against condi builds, you definitely need a lot more power damage to quickly take them down before their condis wear you down.

With full celestial, you’re basically trading burst damage and survivability for a moderate increase to burning damage. Not worth it.

Another reason celestial is less useful in WvW is that, unlike in sPvP, you have a lot of control over how you allocate stat points in WvW. I would recommend a focus primarily on zerker/knight/soldier (adjust between tankiness<—->damage depending on how good you are at avoiding damage, what kind of builds your teammates run and how good they are at peeling for you, what kind of role you want to play for your team, etc.). Don’t get me wrong — it definitely makes sense to take a few pieces of celestial as needed to round out the stat spread you’re aiming for. But going full celestial is almost never a good idea for WvW unless you’re doing no food/oil duels in Obsidian Sanctum or something.

Celestial is still optimal for 1v1 duels even factoring food. Btw celestial even not counting condi still more stats than normal stats. Mix stuff will just nerf you. With a mixed stat ele you wont be able to 1v1 outlast a celestial ele with the same skill lvl.

You are not trading dmg and survivability for only condi. You can mix as much as you want you will end up lacking in other are and end up having less survibability or less dmg than cele.

Example:

celestial ascended helmet 22*7 = 154 stats
other stat helmet = 47+34+34=115

Even if you make 0 use of condi dmg (which is not the case) you still have more stat. You can mix in such a way you will have more healing power, thoughness, vit, crit dmg, ferocity, etc than celestial. You try to spread out with mix and lose stats and lack in other areas.

obs: talking purely about 1v1/small scale

This is slightly untrue.

Pair equally skilled eles in a duel. The one with more power based stats have an advantage over the celestial based on the fact the amount of condi cleanse available in the ele’s defensive kitten nal.

Burning doesn’t have as much value against other eles as opposed to say engies with limited condi removal.

Even if you completely ignore condi dmg (wich is not the case) celestial still has more stats.

yevvie.2590:

Saw this only this one time. My question is: how? As far as I know there’s no way to get above the waypoint, you can’t use Teleportation Device in WvW at all, including Edge. Blink doesn’t reach there, even with far-reaching manipulations?

Is it an exploit or something based on player skill?

(It’s right above FR keep, yep.)

I don’t know about this specific spot, but in general people can use fly/jump hack to go anywhere in the map. It is getting more common in wvw/eotm.

Radian.2478:

Gate: 410k hp
Wall: 450k hp

Reinforced Gate: 610k hp as well as 60% damage reduction vs rams and 65% dmg reduction vs golems
Reinforced Wall: 676k hp as well as 66% damage reduction vs omegas/catas/trebs

Fortified Wall: 833k hp and 75% damage reduction compared to reinforced or 50% compared to basic wall

EotM: T1 hp and T2 armor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwAJB_M2HgU

My suggestion was implement that in the game. Of course people can calc that but it is nice to see numbers in the game.

Nerf engi without first nerfing fire/air sigil combo would be a dumb move.

Atherakhia.4086:

What is up with these forums…

I dont know what you mean by 10 seconds? You want the duration of the block increased to 10 seconds? That’s insane…

Duration: 3seconds.
Cooldown: 25 or 30 seconds.
Trait: -20%

Incendiary Powder:
Duration: 2 seconds.
Cooldown: 10 seconds
or
Duration: 4 seconds.
Cooldown: 20 seconds.

So basically you want to remove engi’s dmg AND survivability? What is your goal? Make all engis reroll?