Guild Wars 2

Stalvros.9217:

apologies im a bit ‘bamboozled’ with all these time zones.
Just to clerify, in ‘server time’ instead (for easy spot)
- What time does the guild mission reset?
- What time does the raid reset?
- What time does the daily fractal reset?

check https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Server_reset it should show in your local time zone.

But remember that the server time is a fixed timezone, it is NOT affected by day light savings time. So if your country uses dst the reset time will change for you (not for the server).

short answer:
if you want to allways get a group and you are ok with learning a not so simple class and are also ok with having lots of extra responsibilities → mesmer (as chronomancer of course)

if you wish a simpler (in relation to chrono) class, only want some extra responsibilities and are ok with waiting a bit to find a group → ele (as tempest)

longer answer:
almost every raid group wants 2 chronomancers, 1 for tanking 1 for buffing the non tank group. chronomancers also have a lot of utility with distortion, reflect, portals, pulls … . A good chronomancer can make the raid go so much smoother, a mediocre one will still be accepted only really bad ones get kicked. On the other hand, learning how to keep quickness+alacrity up, learning when and where to use which utility and learning how to combine both is somewhat difficult. A lot of people give up before they reach the mediocre level.
Basically the same goes for fractals (especially in t4), if you are running a chrono people expect certain thing from you. It’s the same with other classes, but a chrono can bring so much …

Tempest used to be the goto DPS class and is still accepted in most/all fights (but It’s good to have a condi ranger/engi as 2nd class). There is a big difference between a mediocre tempest and a good one. Depending on the group only good ones will be taken, bad ones will often be kicked quite fast. A tempest has some useful mechanics which should be brought for certain fights, most of these are easy to learn (or even passive like “gale song”). A tempest will also often have some extra responsibilities (cannons at sab, orbs at gorse, shards at xera to name a few) but not as many as a chronomancer. Being good at tempests needs some time to get the different rotations right but it’s easier to become a good tempest player than a good chrono player.
In fractals a tempest is accepted in every non pure condi group.

Is the damage dealt by the hands an attack of deimos or are they counted as individual npcs?
I want to know if the elementalist earth trait Geomancer’s Defense helps with them or not.

Do the attacks trigger blocks?
I’ve heard that they do not, but seen videos which show multiple blocks popping up, which would make the earth shield block (only 1 attack) risky.

Is it better to go earth/water/tempest (gaining prot with every aura+maybe lesser damge due to trait) or arcane/water/tempest (faster recharge on overload water/arcane shield)?

Which damage reduction effects stack? Prot/Frost Aura/Trait/Food?

nagr.1593:

I just posted the skills that are mainly punishing ranged damage dealers. There are other skills which target ranged and melees equally and of course some which only affect melees.
Now to my “bad” examples:

Mai Trin:
Yes the teleport shot can be blocked/reflected, of course you need to have the appropiate skills for that. A basic staff zerker ele has 1 reflect on a too long cd. If an elementalist wants to have more reflects they would have to give up an utility slot and still have too long cds. To have enough projectile defece and still be efficient an ele would have to go d/f so basically melee. Also if multiple people are ranged, it gets difficult to know who the actual target is.
Her spin shot (the lightning) shoots 1 projectile per target, if you clumb up multiple will hit one person, so stand around her at melee not all at one point (and check if you have other players behind you), hide behind a pet or just dodge it, it has an at least a good a tell as the teleport shot.
Her normal attack can easily be avoided by going max range melee, breaking her bar or stepping behind her. The aoes are targeted around a (random) player, they hit range and melee equally (I wish they would always spawn around her, would make reducing her stacks so much easier).

Archdiviner:
It’s more of a rush than a blink (you can see him run for a short time), it’s easy to dodge i give you that, still it’s a skill only used against ranged targets. Of course i forgot about his reflect (only during first phase i believe) which stops every projectile user from dealing damage. Also if you are not at max range but just a few steps away from him dodging his hammer smash is harder than at melee, you actually have to use a dodge, as melee you can just run out of it by stepping behind him.

Thaumanova Anamoly:
That it can be duo’ed from 25-0 is nothing special, done the same with the chaos boss. And i’ve not wiped more often in chaos than in thaumanova.
About the reflect, yes I know he reflects during his spin but when does he start his spin? It could be the moment i finish my cast or even while the ball is in flight (and due to having quickness I’ve just finished a second cast). The animation that he will start his reflect is really short and fireballs cant be "un"cast. A single fireball can take me below 40% (or kill me if I’m not at full health or fully buffed).
I have never seen his “Star Smash” attack (even when i meleed him i’ve never been launched), which is his only attack that only targets melee. What has happened to me as ranged and as melee is being focused (gaze → bomb → gaze → bomb etc) which forced me to keep moving and healing while the rest of the group dealt with him.
What could have killed you could have been the new instability where the pvp laser hits a large area. The aoe circle is not visible on the platforms, if if came down behind you you would not notice it. It deals a ton of damage. But that is not a skill of that boss and also affects ranged dps. Next time it happens, check you combat log.

Grawl shaman:
He reflects while he spins. So while you cant get close, projectile users also wont deal damage. He also only starts spinning if someone goes closer than max range melee (a tactic that i rarely see nowadays), so for him it’s the melees fault if they (and the range dps) cant deal damage.
His “windup” is not the whirl but the earth explosion (cant remember the name). Easily avoidable by dodging when the earth ring circle gets close to the red circle or by breaking his bar while he channels.

Ashym:
Except for his auto attack, all his skills can also target ranged dps (and even his auto becomes ranged in later phases). His agony pulse (the fire explosion) hits players at range, not sure about the range but it’s at least 900.
Melees just have less area to dodge which is the case everywhere, but you should have more buffs than the ranged guys (and should also have an easier time seeing the tells).

Now about changes to the chaos boss: some changes would be nice, especially 1 (so far it’s another exception to the “rule”: everything can be dodged) and 2 (it’s a big disadvantage to the condi damage dealers).
I would be fine with one of the changes of 3, so either reduced damage or removal of daze. Otherwise it will be the same as (most) other bosses: everyone cuddle at him and deal damage but I’m also fine with keeping it the way it is.
I’m against change number 4. I’ve had groups where the fixated person did not pull the boss through active fields while the boss had the shield up. Also a lot of people just run a big circle while they are fixated. This keeps the boss somewhere in the middle (letting his aoe reach almost the whole platform) and keeps the boss moving, so stationary attacks (firefields, 100b, etc.) can barely hit him. That change would mainly help experienced groups (that should not have a problem) and could hurt pug groups.

maxwelgm.4315:

However, I think rather than changing this, Anet should introduce more range punishing content for Fractals; as it is right now, there is absolutely no instance at all where it is not the absolutely best idea ever to simply bring two (or five!) necros and cleave through every damage with jagged horrors. There is nothing as interesting as Sloth or VG split phase, or even escort where you’d be punished for going away from your team. Even Bloomhunger is absolutely doable once you’re a 5 man ranged team. Snowblind boss has an attack that you can dodge into him to avoid, but it’s not really punishing to range players since they won’t even be on the range of the attack anyway.

Mai Trin does her teleport attack onto the target which is furthest away from her at the start of the cast, think the Archdiviner does the same with his rush attack. The Thaumanova Anomaly, Frizz and the Grawl Shaman (not demonified) both do “random” (Anomaly more random than the Shaman) reflects which can easily obliterate a staff elementalist or anyone standing between a staff elementalist (or other projectile users) and the boss. IIRC Ashym also only does his gs jump attack against ranged players.
These are the range punishing fractal boss skills I can remember, some trash mobs also have similar skills. The reflects of course will barely affect necros (only when they shoot their dagger 4 in one, and that is always fun to watch), but multiple necros is only the “best” option for pure pick up group: a good nekro should only die in extreme situations making multiple downed or wipes improbable.
Groups that have played together for some time could achieve faster clear times with other compositions (if they want to, some players are comfortable just getting things done).

There are multiple situations in which you can not avoid being stomped. You could be blinded (maybe even in a blind field), it could be your 2nd time down in a short time, another players avenger finishes you (could even be “instant” if the other player got rezzed by you and you get downed the moment he got up), a mob stands between you and your avenger and your projectile hits the mob, you can not teleport (thief + bad floor) and more.

Also if you are going by memory, dont forget that it was impossible for elementalists to avoid being stomped till the last big patch as a new avenger spawned when their #2 skill ended. Of course now they are the class with the best change to avoid being stomped, they can avoid any number of avengers independant of the ground situation (if their cd is up).

Famine.7915:

Odd. No swamp today or yesterday. Go figure!

Actually there was no swamp since last friday (and no mai trin since monday). Why? Because the rotation is fixed, there is no roll to determine the fractal dailies.

There will be Swamp and Mai tomorrow (and Aetherblade) and another Swamp on Saturday (with Aquatic ruins and Uncategorized). After that the next swamp will be on next weeks friday.

Ithamir.5928:

Hesacon.8735:

Infusing has never been cheaper and less complicated.

Before HoT you could do fractals until your infused ascended trinket dropped. With the new stats introduced this is no longer a possibility. So it’s very much different than how it used to be. Before you could either pay up and get it fast or be patient and persistent and get it as a drop.

I believe Hesacon means placing an infusion is cheap nowadays (which it is), while you are talking about adding the “infused” property to a non infused backpiece/ring.
Rings are actually cheap to infuse (if you ran enough fractals you should have the materials, might have to split some crystals into globs and those into vials).
Infusing a backpiece is expensive, but that has not changed from before, you always had to pay 250 ectos for the last step.

The fractal dailies are on a fixed 2 week rotation:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fractals_of_the_Mists#Daily_Schedule

with 15 different islands, 3 per day and 14 days and desiring an equal spread 12 islands have to be 3 times per rotation, 3 only 2 times per rotation.
Swamp is in the 3 times per rotation category, only Thaumanova, Volcanic and Underground Facility are in the 2 per rotation category.
(your 3/week is off unless you mean combined)

The firsts of the easy, medium and hard weekly oportunities can be done once a guild has been created. Some of those (mostly PvE ones, you might have to change the focus of the guild missions) can even be soloed.

aelfwe.4239:

Bohantopa.5729:

If you still say I’m wrong I want you to show me your math. So far you only said I am wrong and thrown a number at me, while I’ve shown you how and why my numbers are calculated in a certain way. From now on I also want your numbers explained and calculated step by step, this includes all and every assumptions you use to calculate.

You are wrong and NO, i already told you 20x times you are missing assumption. You’re math would be right if the assumption would be right. They aren’t. Why? I already told you.

You always use assumption like:

Bohantopa.5729:

Now this situation will only happen in a raid, in 5 man groups you wont have 25might, gotl and alacricity and still have 3 open slots.

wut?

why no gotl? why 3 open place? who told that? yourself

This is not an assumption but a fact. In a 5 man group you have 5 possible slots, to get gotl you need a druid, to get alacricity you need a chronomancer, due to boon share with the chronomancer a condi ps or a revenant could be enough to get (and keep up) 25 might, if not you’ll need a ps war. So 3 of 5 slots are taken, leaving 2.

aelfwe.4239:

Bohantopa.5729:

On the other hand, if we leave the raid setup all numbers (21k, 196k, 13.25s,14.8k) are wrong because those were also calculated with that setup.

and if you already stated you have no gotl so no druid why you take 21k? and if you don’t have condie ps why you take 14,8k (epi including 20 burning stack)?

You are mixing up everything, if you want to have a result you have to start from a specific point (example: 1 druid 3 necro) and change 1 necro (1 druid 2 necro 1 ps) and accordling add the epidemic value from the thread.

You brought up the numbers first, not mentioning they were from a raid setup. I looked them up and found your implicit assumption.
If you want to compare your 1d3n and 1d2n1ps you CAN NOT take the number from the reddit thread because those numbers include alacricity, which you do not have in that situation, you dont have 25 might in the first case and prob not in the 2nd case, you prob will not have 20 burning (could be because condi druid + sun spirit, but probably not) and so on.
You could run your own dps test for those situations, take the formula for epidemic and change the appropiate value and recalculate but so far you have been unable to show any math.

aelfwe.4239:

The only reason you see a 7% difference in the result is that you bring the value of epidemic (14,8k) that include burning from ps and you include it in the setup that include a necro in place of the ps.

That burning does not need to be from a ps, there could be a condi druid, condi engi, heck a condi guardian. No matter what, you brought up that number first, without stating any group composition or any composition.

aelfwe.4239:

If you would do the same taking off the burning part from the epidemic value you will see that difference dropping to the point to be unreliable.

I could even take it time to make a more specific reply but till you aren’t specific about what are you comparing (ps war vs necro) in which composition (druid? no druid?) why should i do that?

Just to see you here claiming it change of another 1% because you have taken some other assumptions?

May you pls list me the exact assumption you are taking? and the exact compositions you want to compare?

Ok lets fix setup comparisons with 3 people groups:
Setup 1: 3 necros
Setup 2: 2 necros 1 condi ps
let necroNoMightDps be the Dps a single necro deals without any might
let necroCondiMightDps be the Dps a single necro deals with the might (and other buffs) given by a condiPs
let necroNoMightEpi be the dps a single necros epidemic deals on a single target without any might
let necroCondiMightEpi be the dps a single necros epidemic deals with condi Ps might (and other buffs).
let condiPsDps be the self buffed dps a condi PS war deals.

none of these values appear anywhere in any of your linked threads, because a lot of buffs are missing in this setup.

Setup 1 dps = 3*necroNoMightDps + 2*necroNoMightEpi
this will result in an average necro dps of: necroNoMightDps + 2/3*necroNoMightEpi

Setup 2 dps = 2*necroCondiMightDps+1*necroCondiMightEpi+condiPsDps
the average necro dps here is: necroCondiMightDps + 1/2*necroCondiMightEpi

The only reason I am posting this is for you to see the facters 2/3 and 1/2 (which are (n-1)/n for n=3 and n=2). The average necro dps could be the same in both scenarios (something you implied by your case 2 and case 3 necro dps of 28k) but that would be highly coincidentally and was not shown to be true anywhere (I’ll show they can be the same for certain situations a little further down).

Now we could run some damage test over and over to calculate those values or we take a look at a different scenario which I like to call the frictionless vacuum scenario: The buffs used to get the dps values in the 2 threads are given by something, for example we are in a raid setup that allready generates all those buffs/debuffs except the group only generates 7 stacks burning, but there are still 3 slots left and the 2 setups are competing for those 3 slots. In this scenarios we can use the numbers you brought up and one additional value that is epiWith7Burning = 156k / 13.25s = 11.8k dps (the 156k btw comes from

(25*(22 + 0.06*2365)*18 + 7*(131.5 + 0.115*2365)*6 + 20*(33.5 + 0.06*2365)*7.5 + 10*(10 + 0.035*2365)*8.5)*(1+0.25) 

(value names should be enough without explicit definition)
setup 1 dps = 3*necroDps + 2*epiWith7Burning = 3*21k + 2*11.8k
setup 2 dps = 2*necroDps + 1*epiDps + condiPsDps = 2*21k + 14.8k + 18k

average necro dps in setup 1: 21k + (2/3) x 11.8k = 28.86k
average necro dps in setup 2: 21k + (1/2) x 14.8k = 28.4k
close but not equal (actually tried to get them like that to show the possible coincidence)

Now what about the setups dps:
setup 1: 86,6
setup 2: 74,8

even if setup 1 had 0 burning (resulting in an epi dps of 10.1k and would actually mean the average necro damage in setup 1 is lower than in setup 2) the setup would still deal 83k dps and thereby more than setup 2.

For that situation in setup 2 the rest of the group would probably change the rest, the frictionless vacuum. The condi ps does give some might, which would allow for someone else to swap from a might giver to a higher dps class and this could give setup 2 the edge to pull ahead. But i never ever said that that was impossible.

The only problem i had was that you implied a multiplicative factor where there was none and did not give any reason why in your case 2 and case 3 scenario all necros had the same dps. You tried to later explain that but took an average calculated with 2 necros to be applicable in a 3 necro situation.

edit: stupid bolding *

aelfwe.4239:

Bohantopa.5729:

<cut>

(woah, a difference of 7.4k, where did that go?)

<cut>

Nowhere, it doesnt exist if you ain’t taking a condie ps war to stack burning in place of the 3rd necros. That indeed makes useless your average (situtation 2.2) because it’s wrong in a 2 necroes enviroment.

It exists … it’s right there: 92.6k – 85,2k. Same situation, just different ways to calculate the dps, they should always be the same. My average for 2 necros is the same as yours (just that i wont stick with it in a 3 or more necro environment). If you add a condi war (or engi) to add burning stacks the damage dealt by epidemic will change in every situation (be it 3 necros + 1 condi war, or 2 necros + 1 condi war. This would mean all cases (yours and mine) would need to be recalculated.
I’m just stumped that you basically still say: “adding a 3rd necro will only increase the groups total dps by 28.4k (21k+7.4k) instead of 35.8k (21k+14.8k)”. Why does the 3rd necros epidemic only deal half it’s damage?
By this reddit post again
A single bounce back deals a total of 196k damage to a single target. If one wants to calculate the dps you divide that number by the cd (13.25s under the assumption of trait reduction and 40% alacrity) which results in 14.8k dps.
Now if you are in a situation that you got a group allready giving you the buffs, and you allready have 2 necros and you want another condi class and you have the choice between a condi ps and another necro. The necro would give you a net gain of 35.8k dps (21k as base + 14.8k because he will also bounce back). The condi ps would give you: his own dps + an increase of the 2nd necros epi damage (and maybe more because he gives +condi damage when he gives fury), this could beat the 35.8k and if so it would be “better” to take the condi ps. But if he only beats your 28.4k dps it would be “better” to take the other necro.
Now this situation will only happen in a raid, in 5 man groups you wont have 25might, gotl and alacricity and still have 3 open slots. On the other hand, if we leave the raid setup all numbers (21k, 196k, 13.25s,14.8k) are wrong because those were also calculated with that setup.

If you still say I’m wrong I want you to show me your math. So far you only said I am wrong and thrown a number at me, while I’ve shown you how and why my numbers are calculated in a certain way. From now on I also want your numbers explained and calculated step by step, this includes all and every assumptions you use to calculate.

aelfwe.4239:

*the 3rd necroes and the 2nd necroes do NOT share epidemic cooldown that’s why you have not /3. The personal dmg value do not change, you have 1 more epidemic from the add to the boss with the same value of the second necro epidemic.

I specifically said they used their epidemic at the same time which means they do NOT share CD (how can you misunderstand that?) which is where the *2 comed from. But as there are now 3 Necromancers and I’m calculating an average over all necromancers in the group of course i have to divide by 3.

But lets go by facts:
1. Necromnacers deals 21k dps (your number)
2. Epidemic (bounce back) deals 14.8k dps (your number)
3. Your average dps necro (if at least 2 necros): 28.4k (your number)
4. My average if 3 necros: 30.86k (my number)

Situation 1.1 (2 necros calculating seperatly)
=> Total dps of all necromancers = 21k + 21k + 14.8k = 56.8k

Situation 1.2 (2 necros calculating over your averages)
=> Total dps of all necromancers = 28.4 + 28.4k = 56.8k
Both number are equal so it’s good.

Situation 2.1 (3 necros calculating seperatly)
=> Total dps of all necromancers = 21k + 21k + 14.8k + 21k + 14.8k = 92.6k

Situation 2.2 (3 necros my average)
=> Total dps of all necromancers = 30.86k + 30.86k + 30.86k = 92,58k
(small difference due to rounding down from 9.8666666666… to 9.86)

Sitution 2.3 (3 necros your average)
=> Total dps of all necromancers = 28.4k + 28.4k + 28.4k = 85,2k
(woah, a difference of 7.4k, where did that go?)

That difference comes from the fact that you took the average epidemic dps for 2 reapers (which was calculated for only 2 reapers in the group) and used it as if that is the average epidemic dps all the time, which it is not. I read the whole reddit post multiple times, I quoted you the passages in it that imply that you have to recalculate the average if you change the number of reapers twice. Can’t help you any more.

aelfwe.4239:

Compared to them i’ve only done a single step on, i’ve traslate on a % the dps increase of the necro due to epidemic bounce.

% aka factor of x 1,33 (in raid) —> then i called multiplicative.

The idea behind that was to make it easyer to undestand why bringing more than 2 necroes is clueless (the dmg improvement do not change) compared to taking a condie ps war.

And that is where you do a mistake (not saying the result would not stay the same, just that the argument is flawed). Adding a 3rd necro adds a full epidemic (because his can also send back 25stack/kind from the add to the boss at the same time as the 2nd necros did) so it adds a total of 14.8k epi dps (not 7.4k as this is only half, see above). As most people are only interested in the average dps, and the 3rd (and 2nd) necro can only use epi on an add because the first one uses his on the boss (giving him no added damage on the boss), it is “fair” to split up that damage so every necro deals the same amount, thus increasing the dps of every necro by 9.86k. as opposed to 7.4k with only 2 necros. Now I wrote “opposed to” because if you want to compare the situation with 2 necros with the situation with 3, you should not add the 9.86 ontop of the 7.4 but instead of it. That is where my 30.86k comes from.

This means that adding a 3rd necro results in a “multiplicator” (shudder) of 30.86/28.4 ~= 1.087 so it’s a 8.7 % dps increase to all necros.

(And I’m still running my ele in fractals, thank you).

aelfwe.4239:

Bohantopa.5729:

<cut>

Your mistake is that you divide epidemic bounce effect for the numbers of necroes you have in team.

That is what you did, that is what is done in the reddit thread (quoting again):

“Accounting for alacrity, two necromancers bouncing on cooldown will achieve a net single-target DPS gain of 14.8k DPS, or 7.4k per Reaper.”

14.8k (single target damage of a single epidemic bounce) / 2 (number of necromancers in group) = 7.4 (average epi dps per reaper with 2 reapers)

aelfwe.4239:

You are mixing up the epidemic bounce dmg (condie on target with a cap of 25 stack/kind) with the factors that applies it (numbers of epidemic skill you can cast over a fixed amount of time, the cooldown, aka the number of necro you have in team) so you end up /n rather than 2 while the n part if just additive.

n=2 in a situation with only 2 reapers, to calculate an average over all reapers it needs to change if the number of reapers change.

aelfwe.4239:

Anyway other than that i don’t get if you are arguing me about the multiplicative part or about something else, but honestly it look like a lost of time for me.

Multiplicative has a meaning, in this game it has a strong meaning because stacking multipliers greatly increases the damage. Saying something is multiplicative when it is not actually weakens any argument even if the result would be the same, because now the argument can be attacked.

aelfwe.4239:

They already gave themself a reply and i give you a link with the base math you can use to determine by yourself the same value.

Actually your link ( https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4vivo3/calculating_the_value_of_epidemic/ ) supports my argument not yours, here the quote again:
“Assuming that you can epi bounce exactly on cooldown (which is a very generous assumption), that means a single bounce between two Reapers adds 11k DPS, or 5.5k per Reaper. If you have three Reapers, you’ll get 22k DPS added, or 7.34k per Reaper, and so on.”

And again the note, that this line if from before the epidemic cd reduction was factored in. That would change the number into the following:

“Assuming that you can epi bounce exactly on cooldown (which is a very generous assumption), that means a single bounce between two Reapers adds 14.8k DPS, or 7.4k per Reaper. If you have three Reapers, you’ll get 29.6k DPS added, or 9.86k per Reaper, and so on.”

Sigh, ok this time I’ll be as clear as possible.

aelfwe.4239:

I cant’ explain it better but if you ain’t getting this you are missing the reason that makes necro viable in raid and fotm right now

I do understand the reason why necros are raid viable. Where did I say they are not?

aelfwe.4239:

Bohantopa.5729:

Now about your 3 cases: It looks like you are giving numbers for global dps (or at least multiple targets) or you are distributing the epidemic dps gain on a single target to all reapers. (I can not explain the dps gain of Necro A otherwise).
Most situations only the dps on a single target is important so it should look like:

…

Necro A = 21k

Necro B = 21k

Source:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4v76gq/qt_updated_guides_and_dps_benchmarks_for_all/

Epidemic Bounce (in raid) effect 14k

Average necro dps gain dut to Epidemic Bounce 14k/2=7k

Source

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4vivo3/calculating_the_value_of_epidemic/

You actually bolded the wrong part. What you (and what is done in that reddit thread) are doing is taking the total Epidemic Bounce damage and distributing it over all Necros.
But you did it wrongly (the thread does it right).

The average dps gain you give is only for the situation of 2 necros.

“Accounting for alacrity, two necromancers bouncing on cooldown will achieve a net single-target DPS gain of 14.8k DPS, or 7.4k per Reaper.”

The Situation with 3 reapers is even mentioned in the thread, but only with damage values without epidemic cd reduction.

“that means a single bounce between two Reapers adds 11k DPS, or 5.5k per Reaper. If you have three Reapers, you’ll get 22k DPS added, or 7.34k per Reaper, and so on.”

If we take the new value (1 epidemic which bounces back deals 14.8k dps) and now calculate the average dps with 3 reapers it will be:
avgDps = normalDps + epiDps*2/3
(2 because 2 epis bounce back and /3 because there are 3 reapers in the hypothetical situation)
or with the numbers you find important:
21k + 14.8k*2/3 = 30.86k

So your case 3 should be:
necro A: 30.86k
necro B: 30.86k
necro C: 30.86k

If we add a case 4 with 4 reapers it would be:
21k + 14.8k*3/4 = 32.1k
Or a general case with n reapers (n > 0)
avgDps(n) = 21k + 14.8k*(n-1)/n

Now I could calculate a coefficent for this situation same as you, but it still will not make epidemic a multiplicative effekt. A multiplicative effekt is something that no matter how high (or low) your damage is, if you calculate with the effect you just need to multiply. In example going from 0 to 10 stacks of vulnerability, which increases damage by 10% so from 10 to 11=(10*1.1), from 50 to 55=(50*1.1), from 21k to 23.1k=(21k * 1.1).
Epidemic just adds a certain dps value. This can be averaged over all reapers to make a “fair” comparison, by dividing the total epidemic dps hitting the boss by the number of reapers. In a raid sitution with two reapers having a lot of buffs and being able to epi bounce on cd this will increase the average reaper dps by about 30%. If the situation is different it will be a different relativ gain.

aelfwe.4239:

Long post

I understood your idea (should have used “is” instead of “might”, my bad), just said that your post sounded as if a 3rd necro should not use epidemic which can lead to misunderstanding with people without enough math knowledge.
And of course if you want to compare 2 different group setups you have to calculate each and every value that is relevant to the best of ones ability (might, banners, quickness, alacricity, vulnerability, other conditions for epi etc.). You would also have to analyze the situation: can the boss be meleed continously, will the group be able to stay stacked, is there even an add to bounce epi off etc. which can be quite difficult.

Now about your 3 cases: It looks like you are giving numbers for global dps (or at least multiple targets) or you are distributing the epidemic dps gain on a single target to all reapers. (I can not explain the dps gain of Necro A otherwise).
Most situations only the dps on a single target is important so it should look like:

Case1:
Necro A: normal dps

Case 2:
Necro A: normal dps (bounces away from the boss to an unimportant add)
Necro B: normal dps + epi dps (bounces to the boss)

Case 3:
Necro A: normal dps
Necro B: normal dps + epi dps
Necro C: normal dps + epi dps (also bounces to the boss)

Using Epi bounce does not multiply damage, it adds a certain value (that value is dependant on the number of conditions). This value is added to every necros dps that bounces back.

(This btw goes a little far for this topic, which I personally dont care about. I just keep running my ele in fractals, it’s the class I’m used to the most.)

Hesacon.8735:

If another condi player puts 1 stack of bleed/whatever on top of the epidemic’d stack, it becomes their stack based on their condition damage.

Quite wrong. The condition damage of the caster is used and conditions applied via epidemic hits are “owned” by that caster. Conditions do not change ownership (otherwise every randomly applied bleed (ice bow #4 ie) would destroy a necros ability to deal damage in raids).

aelfwe.4239:

The issue here is that epidemic is capped to 25 stack/kind of condition so the multiplicative effect do not grow putting a 3rd necro in the team (cause 2 necro are enought to cap the epidemic bounce of bleed).

The first part is correct, a single use of epidemic is capped at 25/kind, but you can have 1 necro epidemic the boss (25 stack on add) and both/all other necros epidemic the add resulting in each epidemic sending back 25 stack/kind.
This might not be multiplicative but you make it sound like a 3rd necro should not use epi because it would not help. It would need to be calculated how much burning is necessary to make up for a 25 stack of bleed (due to a swap from 1 necro to a condition ps). I believe there was a number somewhere but I just cant find it.

Warrior and Rev both have a relatively easy rotation. In raids both have the added responsibility of cc’ing if an encounter requires it. Only few encounters require something special from those classes (ie. at sabetha warriors are used to get the timed bomb and whirl it out of the group; at trio revs generally take care of the mortars)

Most raid groups bring 2 warriors for every encounter, which means 2 / 10
slots are always “reserved” for them. On the other hand almost everyone has a warrior, so those slots can be filled up fast (a 3rd warrior is almost never used).
A lot of raid groups bring 1 revenant, some dont need any and get fury via druids, run a commander gear chrono and do not care about prot (or get it from a dh). On the other hand there are less revs out there than warriors (but not by much), and in my experience players with multiple classes do not like to run their revs very much.

If you are dead set on those classes I would go for the warrior, just because groups run 2.

If you want an “assured” raid spot you’ll have to look at druid/chronomancer. As they are in key roles in groups and not as easy to play you will often find groups looking for them.

While I do not have 14/15/+16 infusions i can understand people being upset. Being able to recuperate some of the investments by turning them into 5/9 infusions is a nice gesture, but forcing people to invest even more to be able to do that is not an ideal solution. If it is still possible it would be better to allow trading of each type:

+16 -> 8 (to make the math come out) x 5/9
+15 -> 4 × 5/9
+14 -> 2 × 5/9

or if that is considered to high a value:

16 → 4 × 5/9 + 4 × 5/7
15 → 2 × 5/9 + 2 × 5/7
14 → 1 × 5/9 + 1 × 5/7

Avidan.8562:

I am a casual player and dont go in for having 3-15 ppl play with me. Just like to progress on my own and enjoy the game. Here is the thing,I also made a guild which I am very happy to be the “only” member but cant obtain any favor to ones progress needed to obtain guild stuff. Cant GW2 have some tasks or game content to allow us the nomads to obtain needed xp points and favor that we may enjoy it as well without having to listen to others, who are pure annoying with how great they think they are in fights etc to gain a few xp points and favor? Come on GW2 at least make it so I can enjoy progressing my guild without relying on others.

It is possible to earn favor for a 1 person guild. Some missions can be soloed, some can be leeched.
PVE Missions:
easy bounty (1 boss) – can be soloed (some bosses easier than others, just restart if it is a hard one or hope for random help)
easy trek (5 targets) – can be soloed
medium trek (10 targes) – can be soloed if you have a fast connection/fast pc (you need short loading times and a little luck with the targets)
any race – can be leeched

WvW Missions:
Obsidian JP – can be soloed
Oasis collection – can be leeched

PvP Missions:
dont think any can be soloed.

It will take longer because you wont be able to get the maximum amount of favor each week, but upgrading a guild hall will be slower anyway due to only 1 person gathering stuff.

The only part that I believe is impossible to solo is claiming the guild hall (just asked some random people to help me after failing 3 times).

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Yeah. I knew you were supposed to do something with them. Like I said on my post above I spend some time doing different things trying to figure it out until I gave up and googled it.

It was just annoying. I had never seen the special action skill before when it suddenly appeared on my UI. I knew I was getting some sort of new skill at some point so when I saw the icon I figured that was it. However I had no idea there was a keybind for it since I’ve never raided. I was having to turn off action camera, hit the icon with my mouse, turn action camera back on and try to figure out what to do with it before the skill ended. Then repeat after each failure.

If they’re going to put mechanics from content that’s only played by some players into the story line where people may never have encountered these things before and are often playing solo, then they need to explain it clearly beforehand. Suddenly presenting players with a new skill that needs a keybind to be effective and not explaining that at all so that people even realize there is a brand new skill up there, and giving vague instructions to “do something with it” in a soloable story line is very poor. There should only be one new thing presented to players at a time. Not two unexplained new things for them to figure out.

I dont believe that the “special action” was specifically designed for raids, just that it was introduced in them first. At the beginning it was also a surprise for most raiders as a “special action” was not mentioned anywhere.
Now if you read the new mastery description it specifially states “special action skill” which gives a hint that it is something that needs to be activated to use. It also has a standard keybinding (the key right of the “0” key i believe, “ß” on german layout)

The information exists, it’s not really hidden, it is just not emphasized. I prefer it this way, I hate all these tutorials with big arrows pointing to something on my screen.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Healix.5819:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

The one I’m referring to was this Living Story. The final episode had you using the special skill to break the mobs invulnerability, but no instructions on how to use the skill.

There’s a small tutorial just before the boss where the NPCs talk about what to do.

What? A tutorial? Which NPCs?

Anyway, I’m talking about mobs before the boss.

After you use the skill on the first crystal (the first one in the traps) Marjory says something about "inversing spell effects ", i also believe canach says something about using the effect to break the invulnerability (or it says so in the top right corner). Cant remember the actual words, for me it was clear:
got something new => mobs with a new invulnerability => prob have to use my new skill somehow => keep trying different uses till one succeeds.

edit: found the lines in the wiki:
(after the first crystal)
…
Marjory Delaqua: Interesting. Countering the magic of these bloodstones returns whatever magical properties it absorbed.
Marjory Delaqua: I know a certain big-eared asura who’d love to be here to study this…
…

(at the elementals)
Canach: Perfect. Shields.
Rytlock Brimstone: How do we bring them down?
Marjory Delaqua: These bloodstones can draw off the magic if we can catch the shield in the flux.
Marjory Delaqua: The unstable bloodstone chunks drain whatever energy gets nearby.
Canach: If the commander is right about Caudecus absorbing bloodstone magic, that may prove handy.

read the patchnotes (instead of getting your information second hand):

“With better attribute and agony infusions now available, we’re automatically upgrading any existing infusions that you may have obtained from the Mystic Forge.

- If you currently possess any fine-quality attribute infusions, they have been upgraded to a +5 attribute, +7 agony resistance infusion.
– If you currently possess any versatile attribute infusions, they have been upgraded to a +5 attribute, +9 agony resistance infusion."

Zenith.7301:

Eh, it’s pretty obvious by now they will never undermine their precious trading post as the most efficient means to obtain high end items.

If people can circumvent the ridiculous 400+ gold price tag on full ascended crafting (not including the cost of leveling the professions themselves), their beloved goldsinks would suffer.

As usual, if you’re doing anything but Trading Post Baron, you’re doing raids/fractals not because they have good rewards but because they’re fun. GW2 will never have good/optimal in-game rewards so long as John Smith’s tenure endures.

I’m not sure if using the Trading Post is more efficient (unless you can play the market). It’s just that farming gold can be done continuously while fractal/raid farms are capped at once per day/week. If one would calculate the actual time spent (in minutes/hours not rounded up to days as most people do) it could be that running fractals for weeks to get a set of ascended armor is actually less time spent than farming gold/mats for days. On the other hand, once you have your ascended equip you can keep farming mats/gold, while ascended armor boxed will just fill your bank (see screenshot, additionally i have at least 6 full asc heavy, 3 full asc med, 4 full asc light, i’m too lazy to swap my equip all the time).

And now back to the main topic:

I’m missing the “Chest of Black Lion Goods” in KINGs data, got 3 of those so far (no key of them though).

Illconceived Was Na.9781:
I would be interested in the number of runs needed so that 50% / 90% have at least gotten 1 chest. Especially the 90% number could be used to say “about 1 chest every x runs”.

Thaumanova Fractal has 4 possible colliders which can be deactivated. In the low levels only 2 need to be deactivated, in medium level you will need to deactivate 3 and in high levels 4 (dont know the exact scale where the value changes).
Subject 6 can allways be done, even in low levels, people only do heat+laser because if people know what to do, those go faster. Even in med levels a lot of people skip subject 6 because in almost every group there is at least 1 person that ignores the block phase and keeps attacking.
You can allways just ask your group if they want to do it, just mention it gives an extra champion chest, a lot of people will do it.

SirDrygan.1823:

It is the agony ….. I was already out of range of it’s attack when agony hits and was down before I could heal…….. happens all the time…….. and I did dodge all it’s attack. I run a “coward” Ele style fighting, means I am always far away from any attacks…..

Ran it today (at 81 with 150 ar), specifically only dodged once at the ground slam attack, high damage from the attack, normal agony ticks.

The ground slam attack has a really big range (really really big, far more than an eles 1200 range), and if you would have been outside you also would not have gotten agony from it.

Never noticed any high agony ticks from those bosses. It’s just that the attacks that apply agony are already hard hitting by themselves, especially the multiple ground hits by the powersuit. Each hit will deal a lot damage and apply one stack of agony (which only does its normal 1% ticks in my experience).
If you have other experiences please show a screenshot of a combat log showing the damage.

In my experience chrono is the more difficult one. Keeping the quickness up while staying alive is somewhat harder than just swinging your hammer while staying alive. Both can bring some tricks (pulls/blocks/invulnerability/cc) that good players can use for great effect.
Both of them can be fun, depending on the players definition on fun.
Pugs prefer chronos in both wings. In w1 almost every group has 1 (tank at vg/gors, quickness), in w2 groups often have 2 (distortion, reflect, pulls, quickness at sloth; pulls for trash at trio; reflect+quickness at matt). Dragonhunters are quiet helpful in w1 (higher dps than chrono, short quickness, perma protection, good/awesome cc) but a lot of groups run without. In w2 they are used a little more often (reflect, shield of courage block, cc, prot, pulls for sloth; pulls, cc on saboteur at trio; reflect, block, cc at matt). Still you often have groups looking for a chrono for their last slot, seldom/never for a dh.

The Thaumanova fractal takes some time, because it rewards splitting up the party which most groups do not do. Also a lot of people run on the top instead of on the bottom, resulting in them having to kill a lot of extra mobs. It can be done fast the following way:
- stack swiftness
- (stack stealth/invis) → blast door
- run on the ground level to the spot below the skritt
- port up (ele, guard, thief, mesmer) or keep running to the stairs in front of the heat room to go up
- kill skritt (reflect/blind helps a lot if you are low manning)
SPLIT: 1 Heat room (Norn pref or depending on classes), 1-2 Laser (few classes can solo it, but duo is always possible), 1-2 dormitory (depending on if you want/have to rescue the npcs and the dps), rest run to ooze and start it while the others do their stuff
- once you finished your part run to the ooze and help kill it.
- run to the middle ignoring all adds and port up
- kill anomaly
- profit

Goint to the first switch is a pain. I advise not going there at all, instead go to the end console and activate the first switch through the wall. You can see the spot here: https://youtu.be/dYfyggu8QRY?t=137 (i know this was before hot, but it still works)

This is not a raid specific issue. Whenever you are dead (not just downed) you wont pick up loot automatically.
While it could probably be changed, it is as you said not the devs fault when someone does not notice/check if they got loot and forgets to pick it up. So only change it if it is trivial to do so (whiche noone but anet can know), otherwise other thing should have priority.

If you are looking for a group you should mention in which server group you are NA/EU.

Personally I’ve finished that achievement, while some were fun, in general it was tedious because I wanted to get to personal reward level 100 at the same time (so I would not be forced to run the high ones again) which meant I could only do one level after another.

Just enter spirit vale and you get them back, you’ll also get the reward chests.

So today I was lazy with opening the chests and noticed that the “Chest of the Mist” from the 1-20 daily does not stack with the 21-50 daily. Looking a little closer I noticed a difference in description
1-20: …, a Fractal Encryption Key, ..
21-50: …, two Fractal Encryption Keys, …

is this the only difference in loot from those 2? Anyone got any split data?

Also both chests have “bonus rewards with …” in the description. Anyone know the effect?

First of all, thank you all for the answers. You have given me a lot to think about. For some of you I got questions/answers:

@DresdenAllblack.1249
That is why I choose 1401. If everyone runs pure damage stats they have 1000 toughness, but a warrior with the tactics line gains 400 while rezzing. A necro with the death magic line only gains 180 in shroud, so unless the necro has 12 pets (each giving him another 20) the boss should still prefer me.

@Jade Nekotenshi.8702
I did not consider necro so far, might finally give me a use for mine. Could you create the build in an editor and link it please.

@Dahkeus.8243
I actually did go over the commander stats and was thinking about crafting an armor with it, probably gotta do some farming for mats but I also got some gold if I want to get done faster.
The video you linked is not so much a guide but simply a VG kill video from a chronotank perspective, one I had not seen before so it did give me some new ideas. As you wrote guide I just wanted to ask if you posted the wrong link? If a good guide exists I’m always interested in it even if I prefer a written one (with short video samples) over a full video one (because in most videos the explanations are not that good). I’ll go through the other classes some time later.

@SlyDevil.3952
Thanks for the list, it gives a nice overview of the strengths of each class tank spec. Do you know of any specific weaknesses for certain classes?
Regarding chronotank: So I should go for 50% bonus boon duration, expected as much.

So I’m about to have more time to play and will finally be able to tackle the raid instance a little more intensively.

So far I only joined some pug raids as dps, but I actually enjoy tanking (at least in other games) and now want to build up a char for that. For that I need more information, but let’s start with my external parameter: for the moment I still intend to pug the raids, so a broader spectrum of player skill will have to be considered. I do not expect really bad players, just that the average skill is a lower than in raid focused guild groups. This means more downs, non perfect rotations and some bad positioning every now and then.

This leads me to consider that I will need at least 1401 toughness (1 point more than a rezzing ps war) in my “normal” tanking gear and maybe some addtional equipment to raise it even further for the odd cleric equipped healer. Any other toughness boosting trait that I should also consider?

Currently I’m thinking about going chronotank, mainly because I currently enjoy playing my chronomancer a lot, a little bit because it seems a bit more active than other tank classes, but I’m not fixed on it. As quickness is currently one of the best dps boosters, if I decide on going for the chronotank, how much should I invest in +boon duration/concentration? Or should I just go Inspiration line with Illusionary Inspiration?

So basically I would like some comments and other thoughts on tank builds and the reasoning behind them. Which class/build do you prefer to tank with and why (pros and cons). Which class/build do you prefer to tank for you?

There was some dev information that they would not add raids to the lfg as they intended raids to be done by established groups, not by pug’s (or should that be “purs” “pick-up raid squad”?)

As far as i know, aggro rules are not as fixed in gw2 as in other games, different mobs follow different rules.

For some mobs (i.e. vale guardian) toughness is more important than other factors (damage done, buffs given, distance, healing done and probably many more). If toughness is identical the other factors will decide if and when the boss switches its target. This will look like random switches (and it could actually be random) but that is mostly because we do not know what affects the agro.

Î dont want all fractal dailies fixed, this could result in run snowblind/cliffside 9 times. I think a better solution would be to change the “run any 3 daily” into a “run 3 in a row (ie. 1-3 or 12-15) daily”. It should be allowed to do them all one by one, out of order, as long as you finished 3 dailies which are in a row you should get the daily.
In combination with the fixed daily fractal it would force players to run different islands if they only want to run 3 per tier. At the same time it would still allow players a little bit of choice, if the fixed is 10, you could run 8-10, 9-11 or 10-12.
This would also mean less relogging to la and allowing (not forcing) groups to stay together a little longer.
Of course i also think they should add a 76-100 tier with both dailies and add a fixed run for 51-75 so we end up with 8 dailies (4 run any 3 in a row and 4 fixed ones).

doombreaker.3710:

Everything that matters in the end is the average. First of all: why would you be interested in the chance to don’t obtain a chest in 3 days? What does it tell you if you do fractals every day?

On the other hand, when you do fractals every day for a period of a year or so, you are most likely to get the average number of chests. The more fractals you do the closer you will get to the average number. That’s simple statistics.

Everything that matters is if you get something or not. The average does not tell you when you will get anything.

If you run for a year you are likely to get close to the actual probability distribution but this could mean you get 8 months of nothing followed by 4 months of 1 chest a day. That is exactly as likely as getting 2 days nothing and 1 chest on the third day for a year (assuming a 12 month year with 30 days a month).

As Howl allready explained why I used the chance of not getting any chest I wont go into more detail, just that if one were to ask “how many days would it need to have a 50% chance to have gotten exactly 1 chest”, which a lot of people will claim is the average, one would need to solve (for n):

0.5 = SUM _(i = 1 to n) [(Chance of not getting a chest)^(i-1) * (Chance of getting a chest)]

Have fun with it, it’s not that hard, i’m just lazy.

doombreaker.3710:

Those numbers are misleading though. On average you got an ascended weap or armour every third day before hot.

How are the numbers misleading? They say that in 32% of cases one does not get at least one weapon or armor chest. So in 68% of cases one does get at least one if one does all 4 runs for 3 days.

I find the expression “on average” far worse, because noone thinks himself on the bad side of the average. People believe that the expression “on average” means that they have a 100% chance if they do it for the amount of time/repetitions.

Dovienya.6597:

Howl.2498:

Linken.6345:

the design intent was to give people that have a shorter time to play be able to play fractals so 1 instead of 4.
Logicaly then the reward have to go down by 3/4th aswell.

You don’t get ascended boxes by doing islands; you get them by doing dailies. You have to do 5 dailies (11 islands) to maximize your chances of getting an ascended box. In the past, you would have done a run of 50/40/30/20 (16 islands). So maybe you have a basis to argue that the drop rate should be 32% lower per day, since you are running fewer islands per day.

(I’ll ignore for a moment that this limit on the number of islands run for daily rewards is imposed on us rather than by choice — another kind of nerf. I would rather run 16 islands if it meant full rewards.)

Even so, the actual drops rates are far worse than that. Under the old system you had a roughly 1 in 3 chance of getting an ascended box per day. Under the new system, you have a roughly 1 in 30 chance of getting an ascended box per day. A 90% reduction in drop rate.

That’s the difference between putting a new gearset together every three weeks versus every 6 months (assuming you’re lucky enough to get a different piece each time).

What do you mean 1 in 3 chance of getting an ascended box per day? Do you mean per tier? Or if you do every tier.

Just curious. I did this almost every day. My husband averaged one a week and he only did this for 2 months and only did half the runs I did a day- and from what I’ve heard from others, that’s high. (From what I’ve seen, too, but relative to the entire fractal player base, my sample size is pretty small.)

I understand that mathematically, its reasonable and logical that I happened to fall into the unfortunate 2/3 every single time- an outlier-but I’m wonder if anyone knows what the actual drop rate was per tier. (Compared to what it is now. I’m STILL doing the dailies and still, no ascended box from ANYWHERE in the game on my account.)

Probably some bias. Some guilds are logging their drop research, if you take Kings# (in this case the pre 23/10/15) values and round them minmally you get chances for dropping weapons or armor of: 50 ~ 16; 40 ~ 9; 30 ~ 6; 20 ~ 5.
This results in a chance of not getting any armor or weapon of 0.6826092 for one day. Running three days would still result in a chance of aproximatly 0.32 of not getting a weapon or armor.

Personally I did not get every chest since HoT release but already got 2 chests, multiple rings and 1 fractal skin.

It does not matter. You can go either way:
normal → attuned → attuned infused
or
normal → infused → attuned infused

It’s actually not when the fractal is doing a ready check but when the group inside gets ported to the fractal while other players are still in the loading screen to mistlock observatory (or any other situation where the inside group gets a loading screen while the newcomers are still in an old loading screen). But yeah that bug should be fixed.

As long as it is not, the easiest way to prevent it is to open fractal alone, get ported into the fractal and only then start looking for a group. No more loading screens -> no bug.

For me it was: run Fractals till ring drops, buy Omni Infusion from vendor inside Fractals, get more ascended equipment over time, buy more Omni Infusion, infuse rings (and back) slot in +5 crafted infusions.

Of course this was over time since fractals were introduced.

Nowadays it would be:
- get ascended rings/amulet/backpack via drops/pvp/laurels/guild merits/crafting/achievements/etc.
- buy omni +5 infusions from golem at mistlock observatory (upgrade them to +7 if you have fractal mastery and can visit dessa’s crew merchant via Mast-er)
- get ascended armor/weapons via drops/crafting
- buy more omni +5 infusions.
- infuse rings and backpack
- use +1 agony infusions (should have a lot due to fractals by now) to craft higher +x infusions
- attune rings
- get more +x agony infusions.

Dont forget there are 2 groups of infusion slot:
Group 1 (available on all ascended equipment):
- offensiv, defensiv, utility infusion slot
can hold offensive, defensive and utility infusion respectively
can instead also hold omni infusion (cheap +5 ar ones available from merchant)

Group 2 (available only on infused/attuned equipment):
- agony infusion slot
can only hold +n agony infusions (1 <= n <= infinity)

While the wiki is not fully updated you can find the needed ar for 1% ticks for each fractal stage under: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fractals_of_the_Mists

Highest amount needed: 150 for level 100

You most likely did not do them in order. Meaning you did 63,64,65 at a time where your personal reward level was lower and later did some low levels while your personal reward level was higher.
Your personal reward level (which determines what level you can open) increases only if you do a fractal scale equal or higher, but it only increases by 1, even if you do 100 while you prl is 1.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

RemiRome.8495:

Might be that pre-fractured and post-fractured infused rings differ under the hood.

Easy test would be to check with your trash collection instead of Berserker rings.

Yeah, there was another topic here where this exact issue was discussed. Seems like old rings can’t be used, only newer ones can.

Hmm makes “sense”. At least now i know which rings i’ll salvage first.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

…??? I went from uninfused > infused > attuned with infusion

Hmm, I could not add the infused once to the forge at all (they were not visible in the inventory part). But it looks like only some infused once can not be added, see screenshot: added 6 infused rings to my bags, only 4 visible in the forge. (and ignore the clutter, did not have time to clean up my bags in the last days)