Guild Wars 2

Wonder what my own ratings are! :P Guess we can find out soon enough.

But remember, with the last several seasons attempting at a 50/50 balance. Most people will be just above or just below average.. It has probably destroyed some top ratings simply by placing them against an on average similar opposing team.

I agree, there should be a steady way to acquire ascended items. Unlike with pve the only way to currently obtain ascended gear in wvw is luck. It would help tremendously if there was a way to slowly gather enough for some new gear without lucky drops. RNG cannot be a way to balance things out!

Rinks example might just be one of lucky drops, or perhaps my own luck might just be really crappy, but the system shouldn’t be based on RNG alone! Just look at what happens to the playerbase in all the Korean games that do it that way..

An interesting discussion. However, to be talking about the same thing the discussion should be split into two factors. (Disclaimer, I’m a thief main, but trying to stay objective)

1. Stealth Stacking.
In my opinion there is currently too much of this. Both thief and mesmer can stay in stealth for prolonged periods of time. However, many of their builds need stealth to stay alive.. Not easy to fix.. However, people often don’t slot reveals, because that would hurt their build against other opponents. Pick your poison I’d say.

2. Condition Damage.
It is too easy to stack a lot of conditions on people that do a lot of damage, for a whole range of classes. On top of this the standard condition clearing options take longer to get off cooldown vs the condition applying ones. So the game highly favours those using conditions.

However, I do find that many people complaining simply don’t have enough clears in their build and then start to complain about conditions being out of control.

This style of playing combines both of these topics into an annoying and possibly deadly combination. So even though I agree that this type of gameplay shouldn’t be available it is not so easy to fix.

Both these issues should be discussed, for all classes, not just for this particular build or class. Because imo this isn’t a thief problem, in fact I do believe this type of thief play is in use because the class lacks in other departments. But that is the thief in me speaking. :P

In everyday roaming I use, in order (since you need to clear cheap first):
1. Dash
2. Withdraw + Trickery
3. Signet (if one condi remains) / Shadowstep (if more than one remains)

If you pay enough attention to stuff you can clear cheap, that is enough unless vs multiples or if you ate an entire burst (good condi necro surprise for example).

The biggest thing there is to learn is to make sure you cleanse with the active clears only when really needed. Don’t clear low stacks, don’t clear early on.

I mostly run into troubles against good warriors that can keep the pressure up. All others, including the annoying mesmers are manageable, as long as I play it like a prowler. Enough patience and burst timing works wonders.

Those that have troubles with mesmers, switching to withdraw with trickster should be enough to keep clear of their condis.

Svarty.8019:

Hanza.6872:

In short: Repair hammers seem like a great addition to defense. But should only be useable out of combat.

I thought this sounded reasonable, but then I realised that the main reason to have them is to repair in combat – Other than that you may as well be dropping new siege.

Not quite, I could repair two AC’s if in the small AoE. And a superior treb requires more sups to build then repair. So there is use for them, at least in some situations.

The biggest gain would be for golems that survive an attack. Stack them up and rebuild them. I foresee a lot more Golem usage with these little hammers. (not sure if I like that or not just yet though.)

I’m in the same proces. Thief main since beta, but I run with just a few friends now and they need more support from me besides bursts. Wish thief could do more support than the occasional Blinding Powder resque. But alas..

I’m going to try Rev, since it appears to have more depth and more active defenses. Which to me sounds more like a thief than the other two tanky types. But the gear I make for the Rev will also be useable on War/Guard so it’s no biggy to try all three at some point.

I have used hammers today in defense of Hills. We had fewer numbers, but with siege could push off the enemy. The hammer made sure that siege they didn’t manage to destroy could be re-used. This made our outmanned defense a lot more fun and even possible. So I quite like the hammer.

I’m not sure about restrictions. But perhaps it should be combat related. If the player or the siege weapon is in combat you cannot repair (haven’t actually managed to test that ingame yet).

In short: Repair hammers seem like a great addition to defense. But should only be useable out of combat.

In a pure duel, whittle them down. Burst, move back and around, kite the clones, then burst when the real one pops and isn’t in any of the plethora of defensive tools.

Most aren’t a real problem, even though it might not be worth the time if they play the class well.

If you die as a thief, you’ve over committed and/or failed to evade some stacks.

I think we should ask for the opposite of what warriors and rangers get. We get immunity to conditions while in stealth by a trait or skill?

Direct damage can be avoided by skill. But what can we do against a stacked condi burst? Go into stealth to die?

sanctuary.1068:

No, what shes saying is. If shes a 1 on the mmr scale of 10. She wants to be teamed up with other 1’s vs other 1’s and have competitive matches and a fair chance to get the wings. Thats all she has ever said. She knows shes not the best player out there.

Besides that, why can fractal legendary backpack be grindable for everyone in pve but not the pvp backpack, for everyone as well?

What would make so much more sense would be achievements that you could grind in whatever division you would be stuck in. Removing crossing divisions as a requirement. True ambers would be fighting ambers and there would be appropiate achievements that you would have to clear. In that way everyone would be happy.

You list the two problems at the center of all these debates:
1. People want fair matches, but still expect to progress through the tiers. Its basic human psychology that we all think we are/should be capable of this. But the fact is, some just aren’t able to play up to top tiers. A 1 should stay in the lower tiers and have enjoyable matchups there.

2. People want the goodies. Even though Arena Net has stated that this reward is only for the better people. Now this can be discussed, since grinding is very much a possibility. But people cannot currently expect to be able to obtain the wings. You need to get good enough at pvp to reach the ‘wings’ level.

@Ithilwen: Just hang in there, there will be another season to complete this last hurdle you have. You don’t need to reach Ruby in every season, and you can still reach that in the last weeks of this season anyway!

Silverkey.2078:

Nice wall of text, with this as base:

• Berserker amulet: 1282
• Paladin amulet: 1001
• (old) Soldier amulet: 863

• Viper: 1304 (58% of it being condition damage)
• Mercenary : 1035 (53% being condition damage)
• Dire: 846 (72% being condition damage)

Nice wall of text. However, one very important part not being shown is the actual damage a skill does with those stats. Some condition attacks are way out of bounds, reaching 15k+ in a single application (yes yes, if not cleansed).

Tbh, the debate about condition damage vs power damage is rather old. What most posts neglect is the actual amount of damage one attack does.

There are a whole range of attacks that add several conditions and do 5-12k (probably a lot higher) of damage if you don’t cleanse them. This could sort of be okay, if the cooldown of cleanses was similar to that of these skills.

But they are not. And cleanses aren’t focused either. So I just removed blind and torment, but kept the 12 stacks of bleed on me…

The whole problem with conditions is that it takes away control from a lot of players. And yes, (melee) power is a lot harder than condition damage to apply and keep at it..

But sure, keep on being an ostrich..

I would however advocate that, even if this is how it was supposed to work. In the current game this is not enough nor balanced.

Look at other signets that remove conditions:
Ranger > All conditions to pet
Warrior > Removes 12
Necromancer > Sends them (all?) to a foe

Our signet needs to be brought up to par!

Just had a quick look at the video. Overall reactions seem a bit slow, you need to decide what to do quicker and do it. Now this might have been the lag, but I get the feeling you are too afraid that you might insta gib. It happens, but not all that often.

One example is where you move away from mid running. If you decide you need to leave there, switch to bow and get out quick. Walking away as a thief just means you will most likely die. Moving away you need stealth or ports or just commit to the fight instead.

Another point is engaging. If you set up a steal, add a heart seeker into the attack at the very least. So you do more up front damage. If you don’t, you are better off using shadow shot for similar dmg and a blind.

If you want more comments just send me a pm.

Shovel Face.4512:

Wow. Some people are so caught up in their own delusions. If you truly believe the system is rigged then you’re paranoid and should stop playing this game. Maybe play a different game, take a break from Gw2.

All I’m saying is, maybe you should take a step back, look at your gameplay and go from there. GW2 is NOT a hard game lol. This game has a really low learning curve. In terms of skill level, this game has a really low ceiling. Most of the time it’s about learning positioning, awareness and disengaging.

Maybe you should also get out of your delusion that you are good enough to beat the MM.

Anet has ADMITTED that the system is rigged, some people will fall on the losing side of the algorithm, others will fall on the winning side. This doesn’t mean its good or fair.. And (some) people are right to complain about it.

You are right about one thing though, the only thing each and every one of us can influence is our own play. So the only thing to improve is that. I’m ‘lucky’ enough to be in the middle of the system, so I don’t see too many blowouts and can rightly blame my own mistakes for losses! I wish for everyone to have that chance, it is much more entertaining.

@Erllun. Your screenshot shows 11.59, if that is midday. Then there is only one way to avoid the MMR Hell. Do NOT play outside of primetime.. The previous algorithm has been proven to dig kitten for a small amount of people with a semi average MMR during those times.

I have several very similar experiences just from the last day..

The last one I had was me coming back to help out a teammate on home. He’s in a 1v2 and already downed. I rush in, down one of the enemies. Stealth and rez up my buddy. Then I down the second player, but in the meantime the downed player and his friend have been attacking me, so I get downed. My teammate that I just got up decides he should just walk away to mid. Leaving me losing the point to two downed opponents..

Arena Net has admitted that the system is still rigged. So there is no need to discuss that anymore.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Your season 2 example is accurate, though could be closer in some circumstances.

Season 3 will be like a sorted version of season 1:
4 – 5
4 – 5
4 – 6
5 – 6
5 – 7

The problem at hand is that this system gets more extreme at off-peak times. Resulting in horrible matchups for extended periods. In season two this was the actual MMR hell some people (under 5% of the population) could end up in. Arena net admitted this was a problem with their algorithm (too lazy to look this up right now).

My question is, how could they use a similar system to the previous one. That has been proven and admitted to be faulty? Why do you keep pushing (some) people down the gutter? Kinda hard to understand.

A tip for anyone who thinks they are stuck in this type of hell. Don’t play outside of primetime and group up with someone ‘good’. You can drag yourself out of the pit that way.

I am having similar issues. Skills don’t launch and then suddenly 2-5 seconds later they do. Sometimes dropping me right into danger or moving me away from where I should be..

Heck I even teleported myself with a skill after I got downed..

dominik.9721:

People will never understand that class stacking has nothing to do with matchmaking it seems.

Actually, unless those people decided to reroll from another class. It has everything to do with MM. Since they could implement a rule that if a team setup has 1 (or two) of a certain class they dont get another said class put on their roster..

Atm, stuff just feels silly laggy. Many skills will be delayed or misfire. Perhaps the lag is also causing stuff like this?

Actually, in the current system it will only get more out of hand over time.

Right now people are in a tier with people that have reached a similar level in the past. So the matches will be even (even though already affected by giving one team an MMR advantage).

Soon however, people from lower tiers will join that pool. Diluting the MMR and giving bigger stomps..

Those ‘stuck’ now are most likely the less good players of the previous tier they reached. They cannot win from the better ones in their pool and will have to wait for the ‘lower MMR’ players to join up so they can stomp those (in this rigged system)..

Sadly that is the way the system that Anet (apparently) has chosen again works.

The system should give 40/60 right now. Since everyone is in a pool with people that reached a similar tier in the previous league. But ofcourse there are people in your pool that got carried to the higher tier last time around. So they will suck.

The longer this system goes on, the more ‘lower tier’ players will mingle in with the higher tier ones being stuck. Creating bigger stomp games in weeks to come..

What is disappointing to me is that even though they split the population over their past leagues, they still implement a system that gives a clear advantage to one team.

After splitting people, they should be able to win themselves. Now you keep having people being stomped (those from previous leagues being in a too high tier) and you keep boosting some people up because they have a bloated MMR..

When will Anet learn that systems will balance themselves out. Instead of trying to rig the league in favour of their ‘elites’…

I played S2 as core thief. Made it to Ruby in about 40 games, then my time ran out (since I cannot play 24/7).

Just go with a standard ‘oldschool’ DA/TR/SA. I took Flanking Strikes and Hidden Thief. Got several complaints (and the odd, you must be hacking) bursting people down that way.

It is very doable, although some friends told me that Ruby+ would be a lot harder. Since more people know what they are doing there!

Nice video! Bring on S3. And I would enjoy seeing some duels against top opponents, always something to learn! :P

Unranked isn’t really broken. But it is very versatile!

This week I’ve played against ESL players and complete beginners in follow-up matches. Probably because this account is new to pvp, giving it a high range of MMR to choose from. It might need a tweak to narrow the range sooner.

But seeing how in unranked people refuse to swap classes, even though it’s clear the balance between teams is huge makes it a very situational. Which is probably why the system is as it is.

Best option sounds like making the armor marauder, least amount of drop in dps that way.

Options losing you some more dps include:
1. Valk armor / weapons / trinkets to your liking.
2. Durability runes

I still don’t think more vitality is what the thief needs. However, since most of our burst is single target, we should be able to bypass some defenses people throw up to avoid it.

Easiest suggestion I have would be to make Basi Venom instant. That way I can choose which attack to make unblockable. That way it promotes active and skilled play!

Taobella.6597:

Best stick to Edge of the Mists in that case because in EB and borders, an upscaled Thief is just dead on sight.

It can be quite hard in wvw, but it is really good practice. Since if you do not move around them aoe’s or shadowstep/blinding power on a thief/mesmer popping on you then it is indeed poof. I enjoyed playing this way, porting behind the enemy blob we faced and avoiding small corners/alleys.

I’ve recently leveled a new thief to 80 to join friends on another server. I was really surprised at the speed at which you can level. It took me only a few hours over two evenings to get to 80.

I used a mix of things. But just do what you enjoy!

Use a birthday scroll to 20/30. Then get a good short bow, pop in a bloodlust/swiftness sigil and do the lower zones. Packs of mobs would get me 30-50% of a level. Running through a zone just keeps popping up your xp as well.

Then also remember that if you need a craft (or have gold to spare) that you get very good xp from that as well. Some cheap and fast methods on gw2crafts.net! I did this from 60-80 and probably used a few level scrolls too many before that.

ButterPeanut.9746:

DPS: ~31k (theorectical max, no where near real game play)

Weapons: D/D

Testing condition: Solo but did math do account for venomshare inside the raid test arena. Used all boons and all profession buffs in order to compare against other classes. Again, this is not 100% realistic but is a good way to compare classes. For example engi is regarded as the “meta” condi class but this thief build can definitely keep up or even pass it depending on the engi’s rotation

Build description: SA/DA/DD

See video below for further details and for example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kTft63S6pw

Wouldn’t the thief count as one of the 5 people obtaining the venom. Meaning you should add *4 as venomshare multiplier? Since you already have your own venom in the dps calculation?

As a main thief, you gotta be prepared to take kitten if you go the criminal route!

It’s rather sad. Been playing my thief up the low divisions for a few days now. And even fellow thieves scream at me that I should switch before the game starts or anyone has said anything..

At least some people I’ve had a few games with ask me to group up! Guess I nor the thief as a class are all that horrible. Sure once you hit ‘high gameplay’ levels the thief is probably better replaced by some rev, but until you actually hit those ranges, thief is great!

That site is really nice for some basic info. But if you have played ranked before this season on that character then you cannot see those specific stats. Lets hope Anet can make that available at some point!

Sapphire, 23 won out of 28. About half the games are uneven, guessing due to MMR gap. The rest are fun fights though.

Haven’t noticed many revs yet, but getting more Trap DH. Some even know how to fight off a thief. :P And the eles are getting slightly harder to kill. So practice time!

We need a lot of changes. But tbh, most are in other classes becoming less easy mode autoplay style.. The amount of invulns, blocks and automatic stun/fear once you hit them is making this just plain bad.

One QoL change I would ask for is to have Signet of Agility remove (the most) damaging condition, instead of clearing something I’m not worried about. I’ve had about 5 downed states last night just because the signet didn’t remove the 18 stacks of bleeds over the 1 stack of poison..

Agemnon.4608:

Here’s a video of nothing the thread is about

What does this video contribute to this thread? It shows an unbalanced match where the enemy clearly has no clue or chance..

My advice for people stuck on lower divisions. Switch to something very high on dps you can play well. This way, you can tilt the scales by yourself!

For me thats a thief. But a longbow ranger would work even better I think. Check out the ‘Where is this MMR hell’ thread. In the first post you can see how a good dps can dominate games.

Will give it a go. In Emerald now 14/16 won. Decent streak, but not going all out on this project. Wanna keep it fun!

Thanks for the input! :P And no, I will not give up on Thief just yet. 12/14 won now, even won a match where one player from my team did not load the first few minutes!

The spec you posted is actually almost what I run, just don’t have TotC, but running Flanking Strikes for superb bursting. Great when adding in to some fight!

Once I get to the point where a thief might be a problem, due to team setup or enemies, I might try to run glass ranger. Pew pew and have the ability to pull out a downed buddy.

Yasi.9065:

It is a step in the right direction. Good players shouldnt have a more difficult time reaching legendary just because they are good, while bad players get the easy road. Thats just plain wrong.

But the complete opposite is better? This really isn’t a step in the right direction..

I agree that good players should not have it harder, but they shouldn’t have it easier by Match Making either! They should be able to show they are good and advance by skill alone.

Anet really needs to cut the crap and reset MMR for a league. Make a fair system deciding matches on pip-range and average MMR between the teams. That way, the good players can have their impact, rise and show everyone how good they really are.

To give you an example. Season 1 would give new entrance teams to the Champions League an easy ride to the final, where they would suddenly get slaughtered by Barcelona. Season 2 is the opposite, where Barcelona gets to slaughter unknown teams up to the final and then suddenly have a real opponent. Neither system is good, both give boring matchups and easy rides to the final…

Over the last week I got rather bored with my main account. Where Im at 55% wins due to last season (didn’t sPvP before that). This results in crappy Match Making most of the time, since in Ruby you’ll be paired with the lower MMR range, so you have an uphill battle more often than not. Interesting side point, the MM is less bad in primetime, guess that is because there is a wide enough range of players so I’m not always on the ‘lower’ MMR team.

Anyway, this means I have dusted off this old account from a friend and will be attempting to overtake my main account by ‘beating’ the MMR trap.

So far I got it to rank 20, with 9/10 unranked won. And now I’m into amber with 5/7 win ratio, going up steadily so far.

Question would be, what are the most capable vanilla specs? Currently I’m running old school D/P Tr/DA/SA which can burst rather nicely. Do miss the movement speed, but it’s still quick enough.

I’m sure that spec will hit some drawbacks once I get to the more experienced opponents. So what are my options there? Conditions? Or even swap to a core alt if needed (and which one would work?)?

Dahkeus.8243:

There’s definite shortcomings of the profession and again, I won’t argue that thieves need help in certain areas of the game (specifically in competitive league play), but for the vast, vast majority of the player base who solo queues or isn’t at league-level play, the thief profession has all the tools you need to succeed well beyond other professions when used in the right way.

I.e. It’s not the best class in all areas, but it’s certainly not the worst as the title of this thread states.

I’d have to agree with you but for one serious issue. The thief is fine as long as you can outplay the opponent. Meaning you can do fine in any league that has players under your skill level. As soon as people catch up to your level, the thief is at a glaring disadvantage.

I’ve actually tested this with this secondary account. Playing a vanilla thief I can very easily turn matches. Just like I could on my main account up to end Ruby. But beyond that, the average enemy gets better and the speed advantage of a thief isn’t big enough to outweigh the lack of anything substantial during fights. AoE conditions rip a thief to bits, most 1v1 are an uphill battle, much easier on pretty much any class I’ve tried it on.

This can be ‘handled’ by teaming up with friends and playing the thief as a pure group tool. But the question would be, wouldn’t another class be even more deadly used in such a way. I still hope the final answer can be no, but ESL does make one wonder.

I feel your pain, sometimes you seem to get stuck into some weird place where you cannot get a good group. I just simply learned to change up at these times.

I’ve had two days in a row where I would hit winstreaks from 5-8 in a row. Then suddenly after one loss I’m going up against teams that rotate better and simply outplay my team.

This doesn’t mean that I’m better or worse at any of these times. But the algorithm somehow picks the groups different. I’m not sure if there are more factors than just MMR. But it might simply mean that at the time I start losing there are simply more high MMR people queueing up, meaning I get teamed up with those with lower MMR compared to them. Resulting in a loss.

This is the main reason why I think MMR should be reset upon starting a league. Many people are now being carried by old MMR that they might have farmed in a cheap way. While others, that just started playing or just did other stuff than ranked get slapped in the face by this system.

Reset it when a season starts, the good players will float up and everyone will be at their right MMR reasonably quick enough. But you will prevent a season long of people being punished over and over again simply by at some point not gaining a high enough MMR to get decent teammates.

Ithilwen.1529:

Ithilwen.1529:

I have to say, the nerfs to Mesmer were fully justified, carefully thought out and implemented in a manner worthy of a multimillion dollar company.

Further, anet has once again upheld it’s widely acknowledged reputation for fair and even handed treatment of all players, wether it be in-game or on forums.

The pvp in this so far shows the beneficial effects of the careful, frequent and iterative adjustments that make this game so much fun for everyone involved.

Clearly, permitting the ESL Pro League players have such a strong influence on balance has been beneficial. They have been demonstrably even handed. They’ve suggested changes that benefit not only there own preferred classes and playstyles, but accommodated everyone in a very egalitarian manner.

See my record for the first evening below.

To further amplify my point, I have included my record so far on the second day. There are no adequate words to express my admiration for Arena Net’s even handedness, it’s unbiased balance…

The ESL Pro league players also deserve great credit for there visionary guidance.

What is your point here? You are apparently not good enough on your mesmer to carry a team.

People really need to stop crying and start playing it as a league. Don’t play only your favourite class/setup in every match and complain you cannot win as such. Why do you think ESL teams change their setups?