Guild Wars 2

Who was the key board turning Dev that did the ‘small man’ live stream where he ran around dying a lot while showing us places to put siege? He was the only ANET employee I ever saw outside of a blob, someone should snap him up.

Why does it matter? You just ball up in a zerg and run around face rolling anyways. Low level as valuable as anyone else in that setup.

DevonCarver.5370:

1) It takes a very large amount of time and effort to make a new map. It’s definitely more than a 6 month process from start to finish. Especially if we are talking about building a new borderlands taking all the thing we’ve learned since the game came out into account. With that in mind it’s a big task. It took us a little under a year to get EotM built and shipped from conception to release. So that is a more reasonable timeline for a new map.

Given how poorly setup your maps are, the fact that it takes you a year is just sad. EotM is a bunch of floating islands, how does that take a year to develop? Seems like your system is flawed.

WVW was never a priority for the game and that is ultimately it’s biggest issue.

Loss of matchup forums was the final nail for me because it demolished the limited amount of community we had going, but mostly I stopped because rewarding players for playing poorly is a bad model and GW2 does it in every conceivable way.

Quick Mouse.7635:

Are Hammer trains OP? No.
Are they effective against bad players and poorly organized groups? Yes.
Are there counter-hammer train group builds? Yes.

The problem is not the melee train, the problem is poor organization good group composition by your average pug group.

I think the bigger problem is the cost/benefit ratio of running a hammer train. While not necessarily OP hammer trains have too much impact for being so faceroll.

In the evolution of group skill, hammer train is just a half step past learning to stack.

Cactus.2710:

iggybl.5034:

Massive blob capping empty towers then switching to different borderland; it doesn’t matter which side is doing it, it is fun for no one. It doesn’t matter if ESO will be any good or not; it is at least somewhat different.

Any game (such as ESO) where the devs are at least TRYING to craft a viable open world PvP mode is more deserving of our attention than GW2 has been. ANet isn’t even pretending anymore …

TESO AvA might end up as bad, it might fail horribly.

GW2 WvW system is bad and has failed.

I would rather gamble on ‘might’ than ‘is’.

GW2 is a solid game. The combat is good, the classes are great and lots of other good things I like about the game. I am just tired of playing in a marginalized game mode.

Contiguous.1345:

Removing the Matchup forum was one of the few things Anet got right.
It was just a platform for Trolls and contributed nothing but bad feeling to the game.

It certainly had nothing to do with the decline of WvW.

WvW is a PvP based activity. PvP is enriched by competition and rivalries. Removal of matchup threads, the only real way to communicate with other servers, reduces overall game community, rivalries and and a feeling of competition.

It without question has had a significant impact on the decline of WvW, at least for the sector of the player base that views WvW as a competitive experience.

Zylonite.5913:

What is Anet’s plans if any, on how to keep WvW going?

Picture an empty, unkept yard with nothing but a tumbleweed blowing past.

DevonCarver.5370:

I’m curious what you all think about choke points as strategic ideas. I don’t think we’d ever want a map that was just a bunch of canyons, this isn’t Sparta or Thermopylae, but having areas that make it harder for large groups to get through if they are well-defended creates gameplay. Think of a tower that guards the only pass through a canyon, rather than bridges everywhere. Is that something that, in moderation, could provide for more varied and strategic gameplay?

WvW/EoTM has no strategic game play because the ultimate solution, and the one rewarded the most by ANET is to just get a bigger blob. There is countless valid and detailed ideas of how to make it better, yet you insist on making it Casual Carebear land and then talk as if a pinch point is going to make for more strategy? Most of the commanders that use strategy left the game months ago and the rest will leave in a month.

King Amadaeus.8619:

ANET have stated several times they would be dead against it, because it would cause griefing…

IE groups telling the random pug casuals to “get away you are giving us the debuff”, which goes against the casual non-combative nature of this game.

Rally system already creates this effect and ANET doesn’t seem inclined to fix that.

morrolan.9608:

Jaxs.5830:

I think SoR’s problem is that you cant just randomly decide to be a ‘for the fights server’ after being a ‘for the ppt server’ for so long.

It didn’t. For as long as I was on the server (March last year to January this year) its priority was the fights, but this was usually tempered by the need to take and hold our corners then go looking for fights.

I think your view of being ‘for the fights’ is drastically different than those that actually play for the fights. SoR did not have a lot of guilds that were there for the fight, so the rest of the T1 level population must have been there for what?

I think SoR’s problem is that you cant just randomly decide to be a ‘for the fights server’ after being a ‘for the ppt server’ for so long.

You attracted a large number of players for what you were, not what you suddenly decided to become because you realized what the majority of the player base has been saying since a month after release, PPT is broken.

I have been through three beta events with another game and I will be going there when it releases if for no other reason than the PvP map is HUGE with amazing terrain, mile gates, forts that are fun to fight in and a very DAoCish feel to it.

Sure it may fall flat as well, but GW2 is a for sure a failure, that game is just a probably.

GW2 has a great combat system and a great class system. Unfortunately ANET decided that WvW was to be an uncompetitive playground for the carebear casual crowd.

WAR had its obvious issue, but I experienced more strategy, tactics and quality play in a week there than the entire history of GW2.

K U T M.4539:

Maskaganda.2043:

you must be doing something right to get hated on the first reply.
some good fights there, just kinda dislike a 4 guardians setup :p

Triple bunker is the 5 man meta, typically.

If you are running triple bunker in a five man it is because you need the crutch, not because it is effective. I agree with Mask, way to many guardians, poor comp for roaming play where you need to adjust to a wide variety of situations. The comp is more like a 5 man GvG group than a roaming group.

Arius.7031:

Why is it that someone who plays for PPT is playing the game wrong? Are games not for fun, and is it not legitimate to play for PPT if it is fun for you? It seems to me that, if anything, YOU are the poster child for what is wrong in this game. That is to say, people who demand you play their way or that you’re doing something bad/wrong etc…

Did I say anything at all about PPT? Are you seriously saying with a an almost 100k lead on thursday, you are playing for PPT when you paint the map? What is wrong is painting the map knowing it demoralizes your opponent. What is wrong is then coming here to brag about it. There is a difference in pride of outplaying your opponents and in simply outnumbering them.

Arius.7031:

Jaxs.5830:

The only way to do that is through PvDoor. The fact that you had a blast while doing PvDoor makes you the poster child for what is wrong in this game.

Actually, my guild group had to hold off NSP at north camp that outnumbered us 3-1 at least. The fun wasn’t in PvD, it was in the scramble to whack-a-mole, so to speak, as they were constantly flipping camps and we were constantly trying to retake/defend camps.

We also fielded a yak zerg in EB. Now THAT was fun.

Yes the score of that match indicates strongly that there is a lot of 3-1 going on, just not Darkhaven being the 1. You massively outnumber the other servers in your matchup, bragging about it makes you kitten.

While an issue, I am not sure that this would even make the top 10 list of all the things wrong with WvW.

The only way to do that is through PvDoor. The fact that you had a blast while doing PvDoor makes you the poster child for what is wrong in this game.

Twinny.9304:

As for me i wish they continued season 2 str8 after season 1 and so on, I cant w8 for season 2 if there will be one. And before anyone says it no i wasnt on a winner server or in tier 1 for that matter.

There was no winner in season 1, which is why they shouldnt proceed to season 2 without fixing the obvious problems that everyone pointed too when they announced season 1 and which have gone ignored.

PPT doesnt matter, EoTM or no EoTM doesnt change that. A new map filled with pve mobs sounds amazing for pvp… oh wait, not really that much.

Time will tell I guess. Everything else ANET has done has been absolute garbage, I guess I lost my hope somewhere along the way.

Peetee.9406:

Hey now! Share the love!

At some point I’d like to face a server not running 60+ man blobs on every map.

There is nothing about SoR that makes them any different other than they are not currently on top of the three way stack fest that is T1.

Draygo.9473:

Then there is dead state. Ressing from dead needs to be allowed, it sucks to fall off a cliff and die and have to walk back, not fun, but it needs to be limited.

The maps are tiny, walking back takes all of what, 5 mins at the farthest point? Gives you time to think about how you can not fall off a cliff in the future.

The game needs attrition, you need to be able to wear down these big blobs.

I think we need a season 2 if for no other reason than to see how many people will still server stack expecting an amazing season 2 reward chest…

Buffy.9246:

But why SoS?

To be carried by off-hour population, same as most of the stackers.

On face value it would make SoS more interesting to fight for those that play in NA, they were boring, but looking at the guilds that transferred… yea not so much, still boring.

I came to the game to play for PPT. Within two months of release I decided the only way to enjoy myself was to either a) ignore PPT all together or b) transfer to servers with enough off-hour population to compete (ie server stack to T1).

I went with option A.

That said, a lot of folks post about being ‘for the fights’ but then play the game in a way that is nothing about competitive fighting, just blobbing.

SpehssMehreen.5897:

has anyone seen devon carver in the last 3 months?

Devon, was actually an early macro system that randomly posted on the forums a canned set of phrases that all basically said ‘soon’.

This thread was hugely successful in that nikitnq never posted on the forums again.

Josh Davis.6015:

Thanks for the post, OP. This is a fairly polarizing topic, but it is interesting nonetheless. It came up quite a bit in the 3 likes / 3 dislikes thread as well. Changing the way downstate works would have such a large sweeping change on the way the game is played – it’s sort of fun to theorycraft the ramifications!

Keep in mind, I’m just spit-balling here – none of this is in the works. I would just like to see some more conversation on the topic.

So, what if you only rallied allies when you stomped someone, rather than cleaving the body? This would be much more difficult to pull off in large-scale fights, but you would have added risk/reward for attempting. Would even-numbered fights still snowball?

It would almost always affect players in small-scale fights as well. I’ve won plenty of 1v2’s in WvW and PvP from downstate, getting that clutch rally at the right moment – but that would go away too.

What if you couldn’t hard rez downed allies? What are the positives and negatives?

Anyways, just rambling. Feel free to discuss! If you have any good threads on the topic that come to mind, feel free to link them for me.

Doesn’t matter if it is a stomp or a cleave, it is a broken mechanic when one person dying can rally unlimited numbers of others. Should be no rally in WvW, or at the very least only the person that did the most damage should get rallied. Nothing in WvW makes your fellow server mates as much a liability to you as rally does.

I also think that you shouldnt be able to help someone get back up if you are in combat, and if someone is downed and stomped then they have to release. The game needs attrition.

ionix.9054:

As you state:

WvW makes the Least money out of the big 3, (pve, spvp, wvw) or at the very least, Pve, no gemstore items for WvW have appeard and many (costumes, toys) do not work in wvw at all, anet being a business places with priority and resources into that which makes them the money.

I believe this to be the answer.

That would only be an answer if the gem store was full of WvW targeted items that no one was buying. The fact that the gem store is empty of those types of things makes it just another symptom of neglect, not a cause for neglect.

I am not sure it is even true either. A lot of the folks I game with buy every finisher, skins, etc and because WvW makes so much less gold than you do playing PvE they are often using RL money with the gem store, not gold.

I think ANET hugely underestimated the draw of WvW in their game and how many people would come to play just that with no interest at all in sPvP/esports and PvE.

They created WvW like it was reality TV. Low budget entertainment that keeps people busy while they release content for the other parts of the game they view as important.

They have simply never adjusted that viewpoint. WvW is in my opinion the only salvageable part of this game, but ANET probably does not have the right people in place to make that happen and they are running out of time.

Nuzt.7894:

I would just like to point this out

Tank – Guardian, Warrior
Support – Gaurdian, Elementalist
DPS – Warrior, Necro, Elementalist

Excellent job they have done avoiding the trinity. To further compound the issue, have managed to make 4 classes sub par in every way when compared to the other 4.

Before you argue how the other classes have uses and can be used instead of one of the GWEN take a moment and reflect on why its those 4 classes.

The trinity is important part of the game, all ANET did was spread it around a bit and make it less reliant on a specific class and give everyone a bit more self reliance. The fact that most people play the game without regard to how your group fills those roles, speaks volumes about the state of the game.

We run ~8 man group and we pretty much cover all classes fairly equally except ranger and engineer.

Ranger is just one of those classes that has a high skill cap to do well with it and yet mostly attracts folks that want to call themselves Legolas and run around plinking from max range. The class could use some work to make it more viable for small groups, pretty decent for zergs as is.

Engineer, not sure, we just do not have anyone playing engineer a lot so rarely have one running with us.

End of the day none of this matters. The vast majority of the players are running around in a giant blob, playing well below a classes potential, in a big game of follow the leader. Class balance is not a big factor in this game, imo.

gennyt.3428:

Jaxs.5830:

I think this game has a lot fewer hacks and exploits than most people think, generally better than a lot of other games. Most hacks/exploits you do encounter are trivial in nature and have little impact upon the game as a whole.

Uhhh…

Super speed
mouse click teleporting and an anti death variant(teleport when health gets low)
walking through geometry
seeing through geometry
skill cooldown
endurance regen
super zoom
flying
super jump
walking up walls

Etc etc, people have posted videos showing all this.

These can have a serious impact on everyone, from the solo/small group roamers to the upgrader/yak runner/ siege builder and maintainer/PPT chaser and people have been complaining about this for pretty much the entire life of this game. The speed, jump and teleport ones seem to be the most common, since they’re adjustable, you can miss it if you’re not paying attention or experienced. I’ve been seeing fishy cooldowns and dodge access a bit more frequently now though.

I play hours and hours every night and I might encounter one hacker a week. Most of the time I see people crying exploit it is not even an exploit or a hack, just uninformed drivel. Compare that to a game like Aion in NA release and this game is pretty kitten clean.

Stand The Wall.6987:

- Bigger fights mean more action. Its more enjoyable then small scale. Its world vs world not team vs team.

Easily the silliest comment I have read today. WvW would be significantly better if a server is coordinating on all fronts from solo’ers, roaming groups and zergs. WvW has many tasks that need doing and it is not efficient to use zergs for all those tasks.

It is fine. Hardly any impact and the enemy can make it up there.

Nothing wrong with zergs. They are an entry point for new players and casuals for the game. All game modes like WvW need zergs, they are a training grounds if nothing else.

The problem is that because the game system favors blob style play so much, because there has been a lack of raid frames, because the reward structure favors zerging, etc the game never developed skill wise. We have few organized guild zergs/gvgers, we have almost no small man groups, and we have a handful of solo’ers.

WvW is static because of this. A game should never just be zerging and blobbing should just not be part of any game at all.

I have zero respect for most people in this game because they participate in this mind numbing version of what WvW could be, all because anet tossed a few meaningless and bland carrots at them.

I think this game has a lot fewer hacks and exploits than most people think, generally better than a lot of other games. Most hacks/exploits you do encounter are trivial in nature and have little impact upon the game as a whole.

Josh Davis.6015:

Polls are great, but they can get muddled with order bias. How about this – create a thread that asks for players to list their three favorite things about WvW, along with their three least favorite things. “Hey ArenaNet, do more of this, less of that.”

Just my 2c!

Yes because that hasnt been done 10 times already, all of them equally ignored. It is ok though, we got a bunch of stuff no one talked about or wanted.

15-25 is not a skill group and I wish you folks running what is effectively a zerg would stop calling it that.

Viking Jorun.5413:

I can’t believe people still think that ANet will remove the downed state. Here’s a bit of insight:
The downed state encourages team play and is not a solo mechanic.

There you have it. Rely on your team mates and stop whining

It actually encourages zerging, which is not really all that much like ‘team play’.

All this list tells me is that the game is floundering about with no good guilds. How bad do things have to be for a guild like NS or HzH to be listed?

RyuDragnier.9476:

Wait…people used zerkers in WvW? Did they WANT to contribute nothing and be the weakest link?

Being a zergling is fine, whatever gets you out in the game, but you could at least keep your uninformed opinions to yourself.

Gambit.8425:

How about adding some new real core-skills apart from the worthless heals nobody bothers with, to add more dimensions to the game play? All the zerk-QQ’s lately seem to be because there isn’t a trinity system in play in GW2. People want to tank and heal despite very clear indications that this wan’t intended or needed in this game. A 5 y/o could figure out that DPS would be king in that scenario. What is the ANet solution to the whine? Nerf DPS of course, anything else is too much work.

The trinity system was simply spread out, not removed. I wish the clueless masses would stop saying this crud, the game would be a lot better if groups started to work with synergy rather than a clump of soloers.

dikamilo.7519:

Jaxs.5830:

They ‘might’ find a bit more competition now. Doesnt RG just run a 20-25 man zerg? A lot more guild groups running that way than there was a few months back. Not to say they will be competition, but there is more of it, so one can hope.

They run 36-38 most of the time in primetime – I don’t see the point fight vs them with that numbers for now.

Really? So how do you tell the difference between them and every other blob on the map?

They ‘might’ find a bit more competition now. Doesnt RG just run a 20-25 man zerg? A lot more guild groups running that way than there was a few months back. Not to say they will be competition, but there is more of it, so one can hope.

Arnon.1563:

I don’t get the solo roamers complaining about getting zerged or people complaining about zergs. It’s world vs world. A representation of armies moving around taking keeps trying to keep supply lines open. Armies are a large number of people working in coordination.

A solo roamer or group of roamers should expect to get stomped if not hiding.

Personally I think the idea of focusing on support of solo roamers is a bad idea, but silly arguments like this just make my head hurt.

Armies that you are suggesting WvW represent should have scouts, patrols, smaller flanking and tactical forces, etc. The should never just be big blobs running around from point A to point B in a circular or responsive fashion. With a few notable exceptions the vast, vast majority of the ‘armies’ in this game have no more coordination than a game of follow the leader.

Your entire premise that WvW is supposed to be just zergs is naive and lacks creativity. If you cannot image how much better the game would be with variety and real tactics from fast moving smaller groups than frankly you are not worth discussing this with.

nikitnq.7143:

No thanks, I like it the way it is.

Before you accuse me of <insert nasties for night-cappers here>…

• Sieged up assets, checked.
• Run dollies, checked.
• Pay for upgrades, checked.
• Died contesting cap from a zerg, checked.

Also,

• Lost fully upgraded camp, checked.
• Lost T3 sieged tower, checked.
• Lost sieged keep with WP, checked.

It’s WVW. An eternal 24/7 battleground. Keep it that way.

The current system makes WvW an entirely uncompetitive environment. It makes PPT a meaningless measuring stick of success. It makes for boring, stale meta that will not sustain itself in the long run. Glad you are enjoying it.

Reverence.6915:

Jaxs.5830:

Reverence.6915:

Zerg busting forces usually have 3-4 banner warriors to rally downed to keep fighting. It’s a great mechanic for smaller forces. Sure, you eventually get overwhelmed by superior numbers (they have to be vastly superior and decently organised), but you sure as hell can make a fight of it.

If a zerg busting force has more than one rally banner they are a zerg themselves.

Signet of rage gives very little party support. If you’re in a zerg busting group running as a warrior, you’re going to want to run war banner for support purposes, or else you’re giving no party support at all, which defeats the whole purpose of comping up for zerg busting. There’s no party boons otherwise unless you’re running other banners.

If you are large enough group to have 3-4 warriors just on support than you are a zerg. Not sure what the rest of your blah blah blah about support warriors is about, like that is their only viable role.

Keeps, towers and AoE have all been horribly designed and implemented. Best just to accept that, realize there is no reward for defense anyways, so just join your own karma train and everyone can run around in glorious circles, no need to even leave the map or fight each other.

Bucket Lips.5017:

I’m responding to a particular TC in the following post along with the rest of your server and Mag as well.

You could just respond to him directly, rather then going on some silly rant directed at two servers. Claiming greatness after half a match is as equally stupid as those claiming the opposite after a match during the holidays. The poster in question is well known for his naive postings, learn to take it as such.

Its not one thing, its a shift in ideology that is needed.

WvW needs a competitive focus, play needs to be challenging. Until those are the goals of ANET the game will just flounder about being a playground for those content to play follow the leader every night pretending its epic.