Guild Wars 2

Wanze.8410:

i dont play pvp, so let me get this straight: All these accounts were involved in rmt, account sharing and throwing matches and they werent even banned from the game?

Just dishonor?

Correct

Haven’t played pvp in 3 years. Last major event I saw was the NA WTS play-offs. Looking online and it seems that PvP is actually getting the support I’ve been looking for since I moved here from gw1, perhaps it’s too little too late, but seeing as how I have a few months to kill before I get my RL related results back, I’m interested in checking out the game if people think the balance is slightly better and the competitive support is there.

Interested in what people who pvp (competitively) regularly think.

Won’t they just play on alt accounts?

It worked for me.

Deniara Devious.3948:

Lux.7169:

What tool are you guys using to observe match history?
Is this a new website? A gw2 app? Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

I used:
https://gw2efficiency.com/account/pvp

You need to get the API key from your account
https://account.arena.net/applications

Try it! It is really cool.

Thanks a bunch—that’s AMAZING!

What tool are you guys using to observe match history?
Is this a new website? A gw2 app? Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

My issues off the top of my head:

-The ability to multi-team ruins the legitimacy of the team LB—say Abjured plays on several smurf teams and takes the top 10 spots NA, then suppose 2-3 of them play on teams with different friends for the other 2-3 spots and takes the next 10-20 spots, and the cycle continues. As it is now there’s about 40 active players in pvp and those 40 players make up a combination of about 200 pug teams since no one ever gets along and stays together minus 2-3 teams.

-This system looks exactly like the current system masked in a tiered system. What is the point of the tiered system if your’e fighting people OUTSIDE OF YOUR TIER? Basically you’re just re-naming a kittenty system and pretending it means something.

-What rewards? This is horrible transparency. Every time you mention we’re getting “prestigious pvp rewards” we get the kitten that the pve-dev team threw out because pve’ers wouldn’t play for it to begin with.

-Why are PvP players by FAR the poorest players in the game (Minus abjured huehuehu). In gw1 hardcore pvp players were ridiculously wealthy and had -actual- prestigious items like guild cape trims, the most rare and elite skins, and even non-elite players were ridiculously wealthy compared to pve’ers because farming all day in pvp made far more gold (zkeys anyone??) than doing -any- content in pve.

-Token system? Wtf is this. You eliminate glory because you don’t want too many in-game currencies… and now you’re basically putting in a token system… another in-game currency? I know I’ve recommended a token system before but I am curious about what consistency there is in the development of pvp. Why would you so arbitrarily remove glory? Was it because the actual old-school bad-kitten had millions of it and you wanted to give them kitten rewards so you didn’t hurt pve players feelings and now that pvp is casual you want to give those pve players a chance at rare items. BS I say.

This just looks like a band-aid fix to pretend like you’ve been doing something for pvp. I’m sorry, but after being hopeful for so long I’m going to call you out on this.

Until you can at least MATCH what gw1 did 10 years ago did this pvp will just be a kittenty bandaid for the failure of the pvp development:

-3 in-game daily automated swiss style tournaments that reward PRESTIGIOUS prizes and served as the basis for deciding which teams qualify for monthly IN-GAME tournaments.

-Observer mode

-Recording and spectating of all top-tier games

-Proper MMR system

-Great rewards for playing pvp competitively daily, even for the teams that aren’t the best (none of that pve kitten that clutter our inventory. Give us a kittening key that opens a kittening chest with good kittening rewards that pve players will pay a lot of kittening gold for).

-Capes and trims. The kittenty layering of some weapons with stuff shows you don’t care about the layering currently in-game and as far as I heard that’s the only reason capes weren’t implemented.

-More than 1 kittening game-mode people care to play.

-More but I just stopped caring to finish this post so whatever.

I would still be playing if they had anything to keep me working towards.

PowerBottom.5796:

Lux.7169:

The idea is that you block what you can effectively react to, if you have dodges to mind-game their steal-backstab combo then bait it, but if you’re dodging what you’re supposed to then you’ll have skills available to get out of the other stuff.

For example, if you eat a cele engies magnet pull as a thief, and have to shadowstep out in order to avoid the nade combo, and then later he catches you in a slick shoes, you’re screwed because you wasted your shadowstep on something you should have dodged.

This game is far too forgiving and rewarding for the amount of dodges we are given. If anything it should punish people a LOT more for failing to dodge appropriately.

Furthermore, if you’re engaging in combat when your important “OH KITTEN” skills are on cooldown, then you deserve the punishment.

I’m not defending the insta-cast skills, but for every insta-cast skill (of which there are very few that are dangerous), there are 2 “oh kitten” skills you can use to get out or nullify most of the damage.

the main-problem with the stuff you can’t dodge like fire/air sigils, panic strike, guardian Scepter3, guardian Hammer5+JI etc. is that they’re used out of stealth with 2-3 ppl spiking you down instantly. There’s literally no way of getting out of spikes like that if you don’t have CD’s. And once they’ve hit you, you’re immobilized within half a second cuz of panic strike and you won’t be able to dodge.

What you’ve written is completely true in straight-up fights, but falls apart in the above described situation which you see happen A LOT in the current meta. It’s just kinda dumb if the sole reason you’ll survive a burst like that depends on whether your CD is rdy or not. That’s also the reason we see literally 3-4 out of 5 players per team run vamp-runes, why Shoutbows begin to run endure pain and dictates what builds are and aren’t used atm. Thats just another reason we see no real condi-builds: they don’t help you stealth-spike sth. down real quick.

It depends on what you’re talking about, sure if you’re a random pug vs an organized burst I am not surprised if you’re 1shot from 3 people in stealth.

However, if you’re with a real team a burst like that almost always fails because the shoutbow, or whoever you have cleansing condis can just cleanse and peel for you. It’s not as if their burst has stab so someone can easily CC.

3 people can jump a thief but a thief with decent reaction time can easily SS out. Why would he not have SS available if three of the enemies are coming in to burst him? Why is he even on point? It doesn’t make sense.

If it’s an engie the 3 are trying to burst he can easily just gear shield it, if it’s a guardian he will shelter. Warriors will either endure it or laugh because they’re the tankiest even w/o endure, etc etc. Every class is able to get out or survive the burst because the game does not punish for wasteful dodging and has way too many invulns. If anything they should remove energy sigils or make them far less effective than they currently are, and also nerf vigor.

Last I checked top teams aren’t grabbing 3 people for a stealth burst. Why? Because good players know how to time their invulns/blocks, peel for each other, and aren’t just sitting bait if they don’t HAVE their “oh kitten” skills available.

But sure, if you have tournament footage of a team just wrecking everyone because they stealth bombed a good team/player, I’d love to see it.

If we’re talking about randoms/pugs/solo Q, I would be really disappointed if they balanced around that.

The idea is that you block what you can effectively react to, if you have dodges to mind-game their steal-backstab combo then bait it, but if you’re dodging what you’re supposed to then you’ll have skills available to get out of the other stuff.

For example, if you eat a cele engies magnet pull as a thief, and have to shadowstep out in order to avoid the nade combo, and then later he catches you in a slick shoes, you’re screwed because you wasted your shadowstep on something you should have dodged.

This game is far too forgiving and rewarding for the amount of dodges we are given. If anything it should punish people a LOT more for failing to dodge appropriately.

Furthermore, if you’re engaging in combat when your important “OH KITTEN” skills are on cooldown, then you deserve the punishment.

I’m not defending the insta-cast skills, but for every insta-cast skill (of which there are very few that are dangerous), there are 2 “oh kitten” skills you can use to get out or nullify most of the damage.

While the system isn’t perfect due to limitations on the number of teams that can participate in weeklies, I do want to point out that I am really glad to see that you guys are putting in so much effort into making this process.

In the past the teams seemed to be arbitrarily seeded and I think it’s amazing that you gave everyone fair warning of how it would be seeded and have a pretty solid process down. So yeah, while there are complaints here and there about it, I’d just like to remind you guys that what you’re doing is awesome and the transparency in the process is greatly appreciated.

Keep up the great work, love how you guys are managing the lead up to ToL3 thus far!

Wow I didn’t realize I was one of the oldest. I’m 67…

Pretty sure Falchii is an aussie.

Most of the people on the Chinese servers are proficient in English. I’d say at least 50% of them.

Aaron.4807:

Lux.7169:

Khalisto.5780:

Khenzy.9348:

Khalisto.5780:

sorrychief.2563:

Anet nerfing something because of player QQ? Never seen that before.

I think no other qq had multiple daily nerf threads, 3 everyday, at least.

Unkillable 15s CD 1550 range Ride the Lightning eles back in the day.
Heartseeker and Backstab thieves near release.

I was PvEing at the time prolly, cant believe ive lost ele glory days.

I’d prolly defend it saying it was not broken, you even forced it out off the point XD

Typically took 3 people to force it off the point, sometimes only two were necessary if they were good.

Okay, I don’t care about turret nerf, it is whatever, but if people like you can’t understand that if you killed the rocket turret then turret engies were screwed then you are bad.

3 people? lel.

Okay I don’t care about turret nerf, it is whatever, but if people like you can’t understand that I was obviously talking about eles pre-nerf then you are bad.

Spiuk.8421:

Malediktus.9250:

Richy Lao.8346:

Malediktus.9250:

Sounds like an exploit which needs fixing.

U never played GW1

I did. I have 50/50 and GWAMM (long before GW2 was released).

Then you surely know fake casts where one of the most important (if not he most important) mechanic for monks and midlaners.

Nah man, you know pve’ers had no incentive to cancel cast.

Actually, my understanding and experience is significantly different:

Novice players in PvP:
-When confronted with obviously bad players, these players rage at them in map chat
-Post on forums about how they get randomly paired with bad players
-Pretend like they’re competitive when they don’t compete in tournaments on a regular basis
-Rant when players don’t rotate according to how they think players should be rotating
-Ostracize people who don’t copy and paste their build off of metabattle

Seasoned Players in PvP:
-Realize that people of varying skill levels yolo Q and don’t rage at them.
-Realize that raging at newer players is pointless and usually say nothing
-Recognize that yolo Q’ing runs the risk of being paired with baddies
-Does not post about the bad Q because it’s pointless
-Realizes that players do not need to run meta builds to gain experience PvP and improve

This is the vengeance of turrets.

Perhaps the system that the game is run on is a turret and this is the effect of using daze on the system since they’re now susceptible to condis.

huehuehuehue

Khalisto.5780:

Khenzy.9348:

Khalisto.5780:

sorrychief.2563:

Anet nerfing something because of player QQ? Never seen that before.

I think no other qq had multiple daily nerf threads, 3 everyday, at least.

Unkillable 15s CD 1550 range Ride the Lightning eles back in the day.
Heartseeker and Backstab thieves near release.

I was PvEing at the time prolly, cant believe ive lost ele glory days.

I’d prolly defend it saying it was not broken, you even forced it out off the point XD

Typically took 3 people to force it off the point, sometimes only two were necessary if they were good.

lordkrall.7241:

I still don’t get why people think that a game should celebrate ANOTHER game’s anniversary.

But then again, to be fair they DID add the skins, that they also added in GW1, with todays patch.

Especially when they lock every thread that talks about gw1… or compares this game to that one.

I am half-tempted to report all of the official gw1 10th anniversary posts saying “Discussion of gw1 should be limited to the gw1 forums. No discussion of gw1 is permitted on the gw2 official forums” but we all know how that would go.

We’ll probably revert to the tournament scene with 2 bunker warriors on a neut point /sitting

Yep, I foresee a lot more cele eles and shout bow warriors and cele engies. The main reason people even played turrets was because they were strong vs the cele meta, so most people will just default to whatever is good in the meta… which is more cele.

The objectification of male sexuality is disgusting and I will quit this game because of it!!!1!

/sarcasm

On topic: hilarious find.

Zilent doesn’t do tournaments and is nonexistent on the competitive scene.

Spamming games for llamas = 1 every 3ish months if you spam ~200games per season.

If you want llamas then compete in the weekly tournaments, there are some for people of all skill levels.

Tur Rambar.6287:

Can anyone explain me a little bit more detailled how participating in the other tournaments(acadamy,esl) will influence your first round?

Participating in any tournament gives you better seeding than teams that do not compete.

Placing well gives you better seeding that teams that placed below you.

Placing in ESL is more important than winning lesser tournaments. For example, placing 8th in ESL could give you better seeding points than placing first in AG or the AGG tourney.

I’m not affiliated w/ any of the admins or committees that run ToL or any of the other tourneys, so this is just my understanding as a player who tries to keep up w/ information.

Wooo!!!

I’m NA and my team is looking for partners to scrim as well. I’ll message you in-game if I see you.

I’m guessing there will be a lot of teams who signed up several of the same players, or a team put random names in to place hold so they can change rosters later.

Either way sign up now because a lot of teams will drop and lose their spot, especially if they send out confirmation e-mails like the previous ToL’s asking teams that genuinely want to participate to confirm their spot.

Also, I think they ran into this issue in previous ToL’s and decided to expand the roster to 128 teams due to high demand.

Perhaps this is the PvE’ers way of snagging all our llamas ] : <

fiiiiiiine let’s just do 128 teams.

jkjk I’ll stop spamming your thread. Thanks a ton for organizing the event and if you need any community assistance I am sure a lot of us would be willing to help out any way we can!

Guess that just means we’ll need to expand brackets to 120 and make rounds 1 and 2 single-match elimination.

/wishful thinking

mwahahaha

Awesome, ty for the fast response.

Grats on having so much interest in like… a 7 hour period LOL I didn’t expect it to fill up this fast!

If we’re not currently in the list of 64 will our seeding points earned up until the tournament still matter?

We just need to know if we need to be strategic about when we compete in tournaments leading up to ToL3 or if in the end it won’t matter since we weren’t one of the first 64 to sign up.

Any info would be great!

NA or EU?

Yeah looks like it filled up.

Here’s to hoping someone signed up a team several times or someone drops. :P

Any rules about reforming teams significantly causing them to lose their spot? Would seem a bit farfetched if 1 player just signed up and could replace all 4 names he put in the day before the tourney because he signed up alt accounts until he could get a team together.

jportell.2197:

I just wanna know. When the hell is this change gonna get rolled out. Sick of getting turret engis on my team with no flipping clue how to rotate. At all. Its annoying.

I’m betting they still won’t know or learn how to rotate after the fact.

Justin ODell.9517:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

After hundreds and thousands of matches, it is very visible that your MMR system functions as this:

• Ten players que at the same time
• High MMRs are 10, low MMRs are 1
• The ten players qued look like this: 10, 6, 5, 4, 4, 3, 3, 2, 2, 1
• System tries to balance two teams from these MMRs
• Result looks like this -> RED: 10, 4, 3, 2, 1 --- BLUE: 6, 5, 4, 3, 2

This is not how the system works. The old solo queue worked like this, sort of.

You can find more details on matchmaking here:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

The current system is more likely to produce a result like this…
Red: 10, 5, 4, 3, 2
Blue: 6, 4, 3, 2, 1

Which could be argued is less fair, but really because MMR isn’t the only factor this is an oversimplification.

I think the bottom line though is that since players aren’t being compensated for high MMR then it is undisputed that the MMR system serves to hurt them. Particularly because if MMR was eliminated as a factor then players with high MMR would theoretically do significantly better with respect to points gained on the leaderboard (which is relevant for players who want to win the prizes).

That being said, unless there is compensation for being a high MMR it is just a liability which leads to:
1) more difficult matches
2) more risk towards losing more points
3) more harm for when someone on your team dc’s (since low MMR players typically don’t lose as many points per loss as high MMR players)
4) less potential gain of points per win since theoretically less teams will be above you, and even less -significantly- above you to warrant increased rewards points for the win.

So MMR only comes with negative factors unless you consider the match-making to be the benefit. In which case we have custom arenas and we can scrimmage teams we find equally skilled there. I don’t think anyone has been going into ranked Q thinking “oh boy, can’t wait to find a random team evenly matched with me.” While in theory it would be nice, in practice it turns into either:
1) get stomped by a team like abjured that’s been waiting in Q 15 minutes
2) wait 15 minutes and stomp randoms

Of course just focusing on MMR is an over-simplification but the reality of it being a factor is still relevant and doesn’t diminish the points being made.

My recommendation is to either:
1) Eliminate MMR as a match-making factor
OR
2) Reward players and incentivize them to attain a high MMR

4 celestials + thief

Or you could get crazy and run 3 celestials + thief + (medi guard / mes)

At least the above seems to be what 90% of all tournament teams look like /random guess from personal experience.

Top 500 at the end of the season = llama.

Or you could do one of the 3 weekly tournament (two of which are free agent tourneys where you can just sign yourself up and they randomly put you on a team).

Well if you want to be politically correct with respect to arguments being made:

-This is the PvP forum, not the PvE Suggestions forum or PvE-request forum

-You come in here holding a discussion about why pve’ers should get pvp-rewards and accuse people of derailing your thread when they point out the imbalances.

-You skirt around the points everyone is making holding some pseudo-discussion when in reality it appears like you’re attempting to play the victim to get dev-sympathy, otherwise why else would you create a topic—open to the public—and not engage anyone in a discussion about the issue. The tone of your posts appear to be “either support me or stop posting in my topic.”

-This is the PvP forum where we discuss pvp-related issues. You can’t mask a begging thread for PvE to be a PvP topic simply because you want the items.

If the purpose of your thread is to hold a discussion with pvp-players about the differences between the two systems and possible solutions, then great, do it. If it’s a PvE thread whining about how its not fair pvp players get items then this doesn’t belong here. Just more pve junk pvp’ers have to salvage and destroy…

during the test seasons you can. Sounds like this will continue after they implement the new seasons as well.

The effort it takes to get one through season participation is pretty ridiculous, though. Efficiency-wise it takes about 250+ games of ranked play to be eligible for a llama based on the last llama season and the current one—plus it takes about 3 months of waiting…

Compare that to signing up for the weekly tournaments, many of which have a few teams that don’t even show up (this will be even MORE predominant now that llamas are prizes). Half the time you’ll win a llama for just signing up and appearing. Even if the other team appears, they probably will suck because they are hoping that the other team wouldn’t show as well. All you need to do is win 1 game, be it by bye or default or, heaven forbid, winning a match.

Eyia Hellhide.7320:

I think OP is right. PvPers shoudn’t be rewarded with unique skins and make the PvEers feel bad. It’s absolutely disrespectful for people who prefer to run peacefully around the lands of Tyria and kill only to gather food for their families.

I’d go farther, there shouldn’t be also PvP titles, what about all these PvEers who want to display Champion title and just can’t, because they hate PvP? They should be able to get Reaper title for gathering 1000 herbes, Mist Walker title for completing 100 jumping puzzles and Legendary Champion for killing 1500 skritts. Sounds fair to me.

Don’t be so narrow-minded. How could you forget about a Wall-Of-Champions for them? It’s very unfair that PvP’ers have a wall to commemorate players. There should be an even larger wall with the name of every player who successfully creates a character.

“equivalent amounts of time and effort”

I just can’t… I just can’t… this is priceless

Not sure why the photoshop heroes aren’t calling shenanigans.

Being an exclusive PvP’er I could be missing things but…

-You have an odd number in your inventory and so the numbers don’t match the amount the crafting station says that you have.

-Your luck in your hero panel says 620/620 and that doesn’t seem right.

So that’s my lame attempt at calling someone out on photoshop/paint.

To address pt. 2, not sure if you missed the whole “turrets will now take condition damage” announcement they made, or if you’re just expressing your support.

Either way I thought I might point out that Grouch has proposed this as a potential balancing to turrets along with some other nerfs in case you haven’t seen it.

On that note, some teams or players don’t sign up or show up it’s not uncommon to get byes past the first round, and from what it looks like just getting past round 1 secures you a llama in all of the tournaments. With there being 3 a week, odds are pretty favorable to getting the weekly llama if someone cared to bother signing up, free agent or otherwise.

Oh ok, I was thinking of old-rules. I’ll need to look at the new ones. Thanks for clarifying!

Going to delete most of my previous post since it would just serve to confuse people with misinformation if they read it.

Deleted content of the post since Tichorum answers it clearly below—this had inaccurate info***

jportell.2197:

Lux.7169:

The funny part is that none of these changes will have any effect on tournaments, or even ranked matches for that matter.

By no effect I mean none of substance—unless you consider the random Q’ing turreteer or troll-team.

Players who had issues with turrets still won’t be winning tournaments, and there was never a turret epidemic in ranked or tournament play to begin with. I guess this is a celebration for the little man.

Do we really need to get into this again? YOU PERSONALLY WERE ON A TEAM THAT DID PRETTY WELL IN WTS QUALS WTIH TWO TURRET ENGIS. A team with two turret engis made an absolute mockery of APeX Prime in an ESL monthly, and 6 of the top 10 players on leaderboards are turret engi mains. Stop saying this wont change anything it’ll change a lot and you know it

How does that refute anything I’ve said?

You’re operating on the assumption that my team could only do well with turret engies. A brief history of performance will illustrate that my family and friends whom I play with have been competing in tournaments since ToL 1 and have sported 4 of the same players in each tournament since them. We only first ran a turret in our comp in ToG, after the ToL’s, so for about 2 months prior to WTS.

We made a mockery of WTS? How so? Would you say Caed made a mockery of the PAX invitational and the entire NA scene by playing with 2 spirit rangers on an international tournament? Regardless of what you think the forums didn’t berate them for it—sure it was a passing joke about the petting zoo, but the arguably brainless build of spirit ranger was not an insulting class to play.

That being said we made the specific decision to run decap turret engies to COUNTER the cele meta—and it worked. Regardless of whether or not you think it’s some fluke we not only qualified, but won three games and placed 5th is irrelevant. We won before without turrets and we made the strategic decision to combat the meta with it and it worked in that tournament.

In my opinion, and that voiced by every competitive player I know, the leaderboards are meaningless and so that point is moot.

As to your point at some other turret team who beat Apex Prime (I don’t know anything about it since I only have time to compete this time of year) well fancy that, some of the best players in the world struggled to adapt to a new meta. I’m willing to bet they did not even try to adapt to the meta and just played what they were good at. If players made conscious efforts to counter newly emerging metas then it wouldn’t be an issue.

The real issue to me is that since some players find a particular class annoying to fight, instead of trying to adapt builds or modify strategies they whine on the forums until changes are made.

I mean I guess if you just spam games in ranked/unranked you’ll fight random turrets and it has some impact on you, but I’ve never seen turrets be an issue on anything I’d consider something worth balancing—this is addressed primarily to unorganized teams or players/teams unwilling to adapt.

The funny part is that none of these changes will have any effect on tournaments, or even ranked matches for that matter.

By no effect I mean none of substance—unless you consider the random Q’ing turreteer or troll-team.

Players who had issues with turrets still won’t be winning tournaments, and there was never a turret epidemic in ranked or tournament play to begin with. I guess this is a celebration for the little man.

BlackBeard.2873:

Lux.7169:

BlackBeard.2873:

If turrets are not nerfed by then, I propose we rename the first 3 rounds to “tournament of turrets.”

Name 2 teams that run turrets in tourneys!

Impossibruuuuuu

Well in a 64 team pool, you will get a lot of low-level teams, even PvE teams that will run turrets or else lose to turret teams b/c they lack to group skill AND coordination to beat them. Unless its nerfed before this tourney, expect turrets to dominate the early rounds.

Turrets are the easiest, lowest-skill floor build to play, and require a rather high skill on the other team’s part to beat. Heck, Apex was barely able to handle SNP running 2x turret engies, and only won thanks to a major mistake on SNP’s part. Lower level players will see this and hop on the turret-train straight to llama town.

Except people have been saying this for months and it’s never happened.

@BlackTruth—woo one team in tournaments. That being said we only run it because it’s a direct counter to bruiser classes aka the cele meta. With it no longer being viable post-nerf we’ll just run something else non-meta.

eyestrain.3056:

First tournament – bad bad experience. Wrecked my server from the stress that came with trying to be #1 against terrible odds and insultingly petty rewards for the amount of time and effort investment required.
Second tournament- mediocre. Queues clogged with people farming achieves. mediocre rewards.
Third tournament – came and went instantly. How easily the rewards were handed out devalued any special quality they had from before. What was even the point.

That’s my feeling on wvw tournaments.

+1

style.6173:

Sigh. I knew ANET would mess this up. How does this fix the cele rifle nade spam engi? All you did is make a lot of the turret engis now play that other spec. Looks like engi will continue to be broken.

Tournament of Celestial Amulets

I’d rather watch 5 minionmancers fight 5 turret engineers.