Guild Wars 2

HoT traits and builds have RUINED wvw and pvp. The powercreep right now is absolutely absurd. I’ve played since release and I can clearly feel the difference during combat. HoT builds are really strong, barely take any skill to use and give you more room for error. It’s nothing but spam. I’m tired of it.

Is it even possible to fix?

Dawdler.8521:

Erron.5327:

Is the general consensus among mesmers that playing condi mesmer in WvW havok groups is something to be ashamed of?

That depends on whether you have any shame or not.

What I can say is if I see 16 confusion stacks and 12 torment stacks on me at the same time then I dont think ermagerd, that chrono is so awesome at applying condis, I wish I had these amazing fighting skillz. No, its usually a little more to the point.

kitten you chrono.

kitten you.

See, here’s the difference between you and me. When you see 16 confusion and 12 torment on you at the same time, you get mad at the player who put them there.

When I see 16 confusion and 12 torment on me at the same time, I consider the mistakes I made to end up in that position. Then, I do my best to fix them. In this way, I improve. By doing this multiple times, you eventually reach a level of skill where you avoid that 16 confusion and 12 torment, and then you beat the other person.

Whining about the other person gets you nowhere. They’ll keep winning, you’ll keep ending up face down in the dirt. For a refreshing change, try learning from your mistakes and getting better.

Erron.5327:

Is the general consensus among mesmers that playing condi mesmer in WvW havok groups is something to be ashamed of?

No, it’s not. The general consensus is that condie mesmer is a strong build in small scale, but it rapidly loses effectiveness as fights get larger. Many people will tend to avoid playing it due to the tendency of WvW fights to scale up pretty quickly as more people join in, because it’s not nice to be running a build that ends up being fairly useless just due to how an encounter with the enemy happens to evolve.

Fishing for more transfer money.

Karnasis.6892:

I realize that Necros have an unfair advantage with shroud, and skills that cool down while in shroud. And I’m sure people have complained about that as well. But so far I have damaged a theif, they stealth, they hit me back hard, I pop shroud, they stealth, heal up, destroy my shroud, and now I’m screwed. That is basically how my fights go in general with all stealth fights, just using thief as a filler.

Yes. That’s what they do. They are built to kill your type of target.

Do you think any other player on a power build have it easier facing such enemies? No. Necros in fact have the biggest advantage in that they can tank in their marks, that’s often why thieves are extra quick around them.

And that’s why most run condi heavy ranged builds when roaming. If quick zerker builds start running from you, they are probably already dead. They will bleed, they will burn and they will die confused.

Phil.8901:

It was like 5k+ for the final, not bad for GW2, in general was an enjoyable show.

But the real problem never was the pro league or this show, the problem is the pvp quality game every day for each player.

PvP is absolute kitten for 99% of the playerbase. People with high MMR winning without needing to try, people with low MMR losing regardless of what they do, not a decent match to be found anywhere in between.

If you’re not in a group queue, your experience is terrible, 100% of the time.

Rednik.3809:

It’s interesting to see revenants in literally every team and even in almost same build, but forum pvp experts for some reason demanding to nerf warrior instead.

It’s not odd at all. It’s a skill floor difference.

Putting up a huge condi stack with a warrior is extremely easy. That causes it to dominate at low and medium skill levels. And it doesn’t need much team help to do that. So anyone can pick it up and melt most of the playerbase, which leads to calls for nerfs. The same thing happened with Dragonhunter.

In comparison, your potential as a revenant is more closely tied to your skill across all levels. It also needs team support to do exceptionally well. Given that most of the playerbase doesn’t have that level of skill depth and tends to not coordinate, revenants aren’t being seen as overly strong in most games.

Both warrior and revenant need nerfed – just in different ways.

Lalainnia.3598:

Also the skills/traits/utility you really should have been listing are things such as endure pain, elixir S, Signet of stone, Obsidan skin, those are the type of skills that outright block incoming bursts from enemy target/s. that are special unlike evades.

None of that is pertinent to what I said if you’d even bothered to read and then think. I said before HoT it was pretty good, everything you listed here was there before HoT and used regularly, you just waited it out then we’re usually free to burst. What has happened with HoT is that a lot of the elite specs brought more damage reduction and healing or ways to mitigate damage on top of what was already there. This has the effect of reducing your window of opportunity to burst someone down and prolonging fights which is not what you want to keep momentum going.

a ddos on stream gave esl players the win recently. there are more such facts, like cheaters who documented their time in gw. certain websites. and the general mood and com in gw, which resembles counter strike now, srsly. eating dmg from an entire team while being able to kill and instantrezz fe is as far away from skill as possible. you dont need skill when others cant harm you. and all you need, is to oneshot everybody.

it should be obvious, that there seem to be like huge gear differences even amongst the same classes. some are superresilient while dealing huge amounts of dmg, and others playing the same build are nowhere near that, even though they can move and evade and track enemies way better. also, i dont get those weird crashes to desktop i am unable to replicate outside of pvp against them.

the best pvpers i know were calm people who would never ever brag about their skills, contrary to those fake scriptkiddies who constantly bark and cry around. gw is nice for casual pvp, but whoever takes it srsly doesnt know whats going on or has issues.

maybe that zoose guy is legit, idk idc. it doesnt matter anyway because legit competition has been compromised way to much in this game. its like believing a liar. thats just stupid.

I hear it a lot, bad players don’t deserve the wings, they have no right to the rewards.
So by that logic why should they even participate, why offer themselves up as fodder so the higher ups can stomp them.
I’ll tell you why the so called bad players also deserve the wings and rewards, because even though they lose more than they win, most of them are fighting as hard as they can every single game and keep persevering even though it’s a lost cause.
So if you’re on a win streak, find the game a bit easy and have had no real challenge, you aren’t fighting nearly as hard as the bad players that don’t deserve a prize.

Two weeks was all the Alpine honeymoon lasted. Qs back on EB like nothing changed. Except the reward track brought in a multitude of PvEers who are now fueling these Megablobs that are currently choking the gamemode to death. If the 35% that leave are these knuckledraggers then I won’t miss them one bit.

Silv.9207:

Ajax of Telamona.6974:

Accept the truth ?
Do i have a different choice right now? Of course not !
I am not accept it but i have to live this . Fun? How u can have fun if u don’t like something?
you said anet tried to do this do that …..
Anet manage one thing : Making noobs look like heroes !
No real viable variety in builds .
Is fail .
I want back my right to choose a build different than this meta kitten and be viable.
I am not say be the best but Viable.
Probably anet won’t bring back core games. The reason is not the q time or all the other u said the MAIN reason is that if do that will accept the failure of her try.

Seriously: have you ever had a real chance to chose more than2 builds (if lucky) in sPvP and still be viable? How? When?
Before HoT I played a MM necro with a different playstyle from the main used in that time and that was way better than the meta, but that was a lucky situation. And how to talk about years of sPvP where if you don’t played that “meta” build you was not able to kill the always “meta” calsses, just like now?

The only time I saw a lot of build diversity in sPvP is more than 2 years ago, when everyone played anything and the “balance” was a mere hope.
But also then there was classes and builds way better than others and players that complained about that.

I play from the pre-release and no, I don’t noticed any kind of change in the amount of really strong “meta” builds you can do.

if you find the stronger build for your class, everyone will play it, just why no one want to be easy killed by others or don’t like to be killed as a noob for more than a week only why don’t play the “meta”.

nothing changed in the amount of real meta classes/builds since the sPvP grow up to a pretty good state.

And it will always be like that. In this game.

Yes, you don’t have any choice, you have only that situation and have to play with that.

As u can check in forum i champed all classes and i have prof about that. I also played GW1 and started GW2 from the betta stage .

Before HoT can play anything u want. EG : DPS Guard Bunker Guard . Can u do this now? NO!
U could play terror mancer mm, powermancer etc. Can u kittening do now?
NO!
U could play Beastmaster , Power Ranger Spirit Ranger trapper Ranger etc. Can u kittening do now?
The goes on…
Yes all the build wasn’t the same but if u were experienced enough u could help ur team to win .
Personally i play Bunker Guard from the begging till even now. Trapper Ranger the same , MM necro etc never changed it cause i like these builds . And this is my right.
Even now if my team normal i can rule in mid as bunker . But is very kittening difficult !!!
HoT manage this:
Ranger : Druid
Guard : DH
Necro : Condi freak
Warrior : Condi cc beast
Engi: Scrapper
etc
Where the kitten is the variety ?
Don’t wanna separate core? No kittening problem Give more viable build !!!!
And this kittening attitude : Accept the reality and kitten is not acceptable i paid for the collectors i paid 2 HoT account and 2 core for me and my family ! We have the right to complaint !!!
I want to have fun with this game and right now i don’t !
Wanna keep HoT? Fix the kittening balance!
End of this
U can’t ? Be honest and tell it to your customers . And get another expansion or something.
Tired with all this and they are lucky cause right now market don’t have a decent game for people to play . And got stacked here.
I like this game but i won’t keep playing for eternity if this keep going .

Get your transfers to ET while they’re still just $6.25! That’s 6 or 7 weeks of 0-effort top-place finishes! Don’t miss your spot on the bandwagon!

Is this a thread about a class that can build to be nearly unkillable and escape from anything complaining about a class that can build to be nearly unkillable and escape from anything?

Just dont mix a trapper thief into this, we will reach critical mass and minds explode.

Cain.6408:

Sure, give them burst… but blowing through all a ranger (in full ascended and infused gear) HPs in 2 seconds while I can’t use any skills to negate damage is getting a bit old. I mean come on

If they can take your hp down that quickly, you can take theirs down just as quick. Full glkittenter mesmer is so squishy, a light summer breeze will kill them.

The problem is, some classes just never die to physical dmg, so condi is the only way to kill them, otherwise they just run around god-moding.

Cynz.9437:

frankly direct response to absurd amount of protection/blocks/dmg redux traits that were introduced with HoT

Try and work out why most classes need those things for example to even consider playing marauder amulet, let alone zerker, for 3 years one class had broken faceroll OP mechanics that made it very difficult for anyone else to go glassy (even the one other class that went glassy for any amount of time, basically had to be babysat by the alluded to class), then they added another class like that with HoT, maybe if they ever redesigned those two classes to be less faceroll as glassy builds then we could lose some of the protection, blocks, passives, etc on other classes, until then…

So someone please tell me where the balance is? Thiefs jump in outnumbered and end up killing ppl, jump out and have almost full hp. And then just repeat it.

Right now im looking at 1-2 thiefs basicly toying with 6-8 enemies. It is just dumb.

Sich.7103:

If 2 thief can kill 6/8 enemy I think that those enemy are really bad….
First thing to do in that case is to regroup, never chase thief, stay together and the thief won’t be able to kill you… It may be hard to kill the thief, but they won’t kill you…

This is true.
You can’t chase a thief.
You must stay tight in a group of 6-8 people.
You can’t kill a thief.
If you don’t stay in group, thief kills you.

What a wonderfully balanced profession.

Mnemesis.8257:

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

Havent you all seen the posts. They say direct damage is worse becouse once you get hit you take all the damage at once.

This is basic math. There is no debate to be fought there.

Basic math says that Mes, Necro, & War are 3 out of 9 viable condi classes around. And I dare not stack them as a single AoE cleanse will disrupt all condi.

Condi classes are NOT overwhelming in Team Q where players are skilled, prioritized and/or are premades who can handle such builds.

SoloQ will always have issues with condi… even if it’s a condi teef, guard or Rev. These classes aren’t ESL material but hey.. unorganized, random players, will always have issues with everything thrown their way.

Havent you all seen the posts. They say direct damage is worse becouse once you get hit you take all the damage at once. With condition damage you can dodge/block/evade it, you can cleance it and you can outheal it. We who complain about condition damage right now just have to L2P.

Druids were one of hte major sources of team cleanses. However their method of cleansing in team fights nad 2v2s 3v3s was cut in half. So the assistance your druid USED to give you is now gone. Also Condi warrior is back in the meta and stronger than it ever was. Its also TANKIER than it ever was. Its also harder to avoid its damage than it used to be.

People forgot what it was like to get bleed stacks that lasted 15+ seconds.

Combine that with the fact that its counters dont exist anymore most warriors are going to run condi making them pretty much top dog. Condi Burst Revs are also reappearing. Condi Necros never left and infact can now stack there damage ontop of eachother.

The only reliable group cleansers are eles. Which actually get kittenED when they have that many condi players focusing them down.

So the two primary cleansers no longer can do their job effectively.

Ultimately. Classes capable of strong condition output have made it into the meta all at once. So power builds (which are and always have been weak to condition builds) are no longer optimal with the exception of those capable of high amounts of evasion.

Enjoy

As long as you don’t mind broken promises and major grinds then you’ll love HoT

Yeah I’ve never understood the argument that “the map is boring”. That’s like saying a chess board or soccer field is boring. The map serves a purpose, it works. You can have boring opponents but that’s not the maps fault. The dbl doesn’t work for the game mode, that was the problem.

I don’t mind the risk of an infraction, but i’d like to share a quote on this topic from #gww:

We’ve added 10 years to your sentence for asking why you’re in jail.

To say that condi is out of hand really has 0 sense, as power is out of hand and sustain too. How is kitten cd skill that hits you for 8k more acceptable than any condi skill? Are builds that out-sustains the power builds of necro/warr/mesm, which are the comdi users and some not even meta, while still doing similar dmg fine? you’re fooling yourselves if you believe that condies are out of hand.. Everything is out of hand.

You actually sweep for mesmers.

No. Just no. Terrible idea. Usually brought up by spvp players who suddenly realise their pigeon hole build with trinket gets wrecked in wvw where build diversity still exists.

Why do these pigeon holers keep trying to push this terrible idea? Learn to think about your build, get the right foods, craft the right equipments and get on with enjoying the freedom that wvw has.

There’s a reason a lot of wvw players won’t go near spvp- build diversity. Don’t go restricting our choice because you can’t work out how to play the game and use a cookie cutter meta build from spvp forums.

“Main mesmers, what are your suggestions to Anet so they can tone Chrono/Mesmer back to other classes’ level?”

Look, i think every pure, old school mesmer players just wants power shatter to be viable. It’s what the mesmer was made to do. It’s the most fun, highest skill capped, and utilises what is best about mesmer; mobility, burst, dictation of games via +1ing,

I’m fed up of this stupid condi bunker bull crap we are forced into.

Right now a mesmer is only good for moa + portal. And because of the meta, the build we are forced to play in order to carry out said moas + portals, is the one with the most survivability, and sustain; condi chrono.

I miss the old days where you were no 1 target because people knew a good power shatter mesmer would destroy anyone, anywhere on the map he wanted, if left to free cast.

Terrorsquad.4802:

Ross Biddle.2367:

ResJudicator.7916:

Terrorsquad.4802:

So it just shows, no matter how good the +1’er is (kuddos to those who can actually handle chrono 1v1) something needs to be changed. It’s way to effective and the AoE conditions which are not even meant for the others around target are getting hit too hard by it. It’s both (too?) effective in AoE and single target.

What? This is completely wrong. A decent thief, reaper, or warrior will absolutely wreck a mesmer in a +1. Both the thief and reaper can CC the mesmer out of the Shield4, which leads to a kill. The warrior can chain CCs and put on enough pressure to force the mesmer to retreat.

The only thing you have to be aware of is making sure you don’t waste your +1 burst on a dodge or evade, which is 100% up to you. (It’s really easy as thief or reaper ’cause you can wait for the mesmer to put up shield and then interrupt + bomb).

Yup. +1ing on a chrono is super easy particularly for those classes. It’s an easy kill and/or easier decap.

If you’re scared of aoe fallout, try a weapon with range. This ain’t rocket science xD

It’s far from an easy kill with hundreds of blocks/invulns and random dazes chaining eachother. It has too many of those while being effective in dps aswel.

I know you’re a mesmer main but come on man, be honest Chrono is not in line with the rest.
Atleast put effort in giving feedback what should change to bring them more in line.

You got me, I’m a Mesmer main. You want feedback?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Can-Warrior-counter-Meta-Chrono/first#

The first post/chat of its kind across the whole forum. I’d not seen a single question or suggestion, only rampant QQ and nerf calls. Yet here’s your mesmer main who played the class/build on season, saw the weaknesses, and immediately saw the counter. I never claimed it’d be an easy lol-roflstomp. I’m sorry what you’re looking for is a roll over fight vs the chrono on whatever class/build you want to run. The chrono build is strong, it’s genuinely viable (though amidst the pathetic state mesmer is in), but it’s hardly OP. Is there strong synergy of some traits that might need looking into? Sure, maybe, but those are hardly breaking the game in the way people cry on about it. If anything they’re propping up an otherwise pathetic class within the state of the game.

So you want feedback? Pick up a counter class, think about your strategy, learn to play. Play to win. Chrono isnt the safe bet you think it is.