Guild Wars 2

msalakka.4653:

Leave the old waypoint system in place. Whoever owns the keep can have a waypoint there once it’s fortified.

Get rid of the automatic Marked on invaders after flipping a keep.

My suggestion for waypoints would be:

Garrison/EB keep-Cannot be waypointed by enemies. Waypoint available with first upgrade for home server only.

BL Side Keeps-Can be waypointed by anyone when upgraded to tier 3

- Moa Duration reduced to 5 sec.

- Portal cd nerfed to 180 sec.

- Shield Block will now block 1 single attack rather than blocking for the whole duration of the skill

- Clones will be showed on a different color to help people target chrono.

- Scepter atk speed increased

- Moar hpwr using unusefull utilities\traitlines

- Fixed server crash

Also Portal CD nerfed to 180s because people still used it.

And Chronomancer well FX reduced because an Elementalist died in sPvP. Can’t have that.

Blur removed from sword 2, lands twice as many hits for twice as many retal procs.

Staff no longer deals any conditions, ever. Phase retreat teleports you to exactly the same spot as you were standing when activated.

Alacrity buffed by 1%

Every now and then I still come back to see what’s up on the mesmer forums, and I see topics like this…

Lol nothing ever changes.

Random moron: “Nerf Mesmers”
Everyone: “Dude…”
Random Moron: “No for real”
Pyro: “Yur dumb, numbers+reasons”
Random Moron: “No you”
Thread derails into discussion by community of better ways to nerf mesmer so it will get stop getting nerfed.

The mesmer forum really is a special place.

Edit: Also the dude talking about defensive stats not being used in roaming and glass being standard made me check the date on the post, thought it was from a year ago or something.

The HoT powercreep removed more viable builds than it added, with everyone now having to have the new trait line to be competitive. This makes me sad. Even sadder is a condi warrior/guardian is far more dangerous than a damage warrior/guardian.

When your melee classes are running condi builds you know the game is out of balance.

I don’t believe that there is hate towards anyone that roams (remember that roamers scout as well for larger parties).

Still, I can’t ignore that many people that choose to join a zerg wouldn’t do so that often if the game balance was different. Many people would like to roam solo or in small groups but current balance doesn’t leave much room for every profession or any team composition.

So, I would expect if a bunch of people sees a roamer, especially of some professions/elite specs, that are considered quite powerful, they may chase him down for longer and possibly vent out some “hate” solely because they might see you as the reason that they don’t dare to roam outside of a zerg anymore.

Still, whispering is just silly. While running on my Revenant/Herald I rarely witnessed such behavior. Maybe because I am just “FOOD” for certain professions/builds…

Ansau plays on Baruch Bay, which is probably the most stacked server in EU. Currently BB and SFR are the only “very high” status servers in EU. Both in EU and NA most servers are so called “medium” population, meaning that their WvWvW population is actually really low.

I am sure the experience would be different if the number of players per border is 1/10th of BB has. For example we have already been for many weeks being outnumbered on 3-4 maps pretty much all the time, except circa 5 hours at night when the Deso night crew is on. Having just 1-2 players on the entire map means you simply cannot afford to have scouts, but 1-2 players is enough to flip all the keeps and towers if those objectives are undefended by human players. This also assumes that those 1-2 players are running good builds, especially air keep lord can be tricky with all the CC. Side note: I find that the earth keep is the easiest to solo, you can take both the inner and outer wall down with just 1 catapult and the earth lord is easiest to kill with just 1-2 players. This is probably just bad design as I think the earth keep should not be the easiest.

Side note: You could flip all the keeps in the Alpine border with 1-2 players. I don’t have timings, but I am sure it took shorter time to flip a fully upgraded keep in the old border. I used to do sneak captures in the prime time, just me and some random Desolation player or two, while our zerg was keeping enemy “busy” and back then there wasn’t the power creep from HoT, so the pre-HoT did less DPS. Now there is usually no zerg, so it is just those few players on the map. And the new map just suck when you have so few players. The new maps are designed for much larger number of players than most servers can now muster. And calling that “a learn to play issue” and telling that most players are too lazy or dumb to learn the new mechanisms is just plain dishonesty.

Scouting is dead for many reasons. One main reason is that scouting is now so boring with too little things to do. Upgrades run now automatically, while before HoT they required human interaction. And enemy comes to attack once in a blue moon, so you are just wasting your time and getting no rewards, no action, no fun. Arenanet should increase the rewards for successful defense and in general make WvWvW give as good rewards as world/map meta events in pve.

The fact is that numbers still matter in defending. I haven’t seen any small numbers, like 1-3 players, being able to defend vs much higher enemy force, like 20+ for a significant amount of time. I consider many of the German servers really pro with Arrow Carts and other siege. Yet a good commander can take a keep defended by them if the attacker has larger numbers. Can you prove me with wrong with some video footage and where the attacker, which is outnumbering the defenders, is using solid tactics?

I remember just one occasion where I was alone able to defend fire keep vs 5 enemies. I managed to kill 3 of them solo couple of times in a row, because I was playing a reaper and enemy wasn’t smart enough. I was constantly using the the terrain to my advantage to avoid being focused fired by many and retreating through portals.

If Arenanet strategy was to make the BLs to make enemy split the zergs, they failed miserably. Now the borderlands are empty besides 1-2 border hopping zergs, which flip everything vs not much any defense. If majority of the players don’t want to play on the new borders, Arenanet should draw the conclusions and bring the old borderland back as quickly as possibly. By forcing the players to adjust to something they don’t like is a recipe for making the game dead!

Ansau.7326:

Puck.9612:

Ansau.7326:

Basically, capping camps in DBL requires map knowledge, takes just a bit longer and no way is the drama some of you pretend. Most of you complain about needing to learn the paths to be nearly as good as before, and sorry but that is a lame argument..

It’s not about learning the paths, it’s about being restricted to them, as I already explained above…

Every structure has at least 2 paths, and most 3 or even more. Defining paths is a way to incentive fights, which is what most people is seeking.

Except it clearly doesn’t work on this map.
Look at EB vs. the desert bl, EB is pretty darn open but it actually does funnel people together. For example, If you are trying to head south towards bravost or umberglade you have choke points at the ogres, or the bridge in front of durios. Most of the map is set up like this. Open areas to allow fights with strategic choke points where you know you can ambush the enemy.
In the desert the paths restrict travel without funneling people together. You can have zergs run past each other without ever seeing each other. If you do happen to run into a much larger group you are screwed because you are stuck in a corridor together with no room to outmaneuver them. You end up pirate shipping and hoping they are just really bad players because they have every advantage in that situation. If you get a call for action across the map you can’t just head in that direction, you have to make detours to find the path that leads to that area, and hope the fight isn’t in an area with some annoying PvE mechanic like stealth sandstorms or constant cripple.

I think there are many generalizations, but from my own experience there are certainly reasons why people can get very frustrated— it’s where they toss their frustration on. When things go south, fingers get pointed, and oftentimes the echo chamber is going to find someone outside of the circle to blame. When your attack fails because 12 pugs sit around with 96 supply and nothing builds. When people run up to the lord’s room to run up and tag the lord, endangering the entire group, it’s very hard to really have sympathy if say, I suggest to throw them to the wolves.

And to be honest, if you’re being dead weight, then you have to reconsider why you are here. However, it’s not just the pugs. It’s also bad habits and other things from even so called veteran hardcore players.

But unfortunately, that leaves collateral damage. Once, I got angry at someone for placing a trebuchet against a wall, because I thought we were being trolled without thinking that they didn’t know any better within even considering the possibility that they could just be new.

To add on to matters, the overall state of WvW has caused increased stress to anyone that still takes it seriously for whatever reason, and thus the patience gets lower and lower to the point where people can only turn to people they trust.

Consider what a pugmander might have to deal with:

• People not cooperating with tag, not on coms.
• Backseat Driving, especially by zerglings
• People not knowing what to do, and then getting upset when things go wrong
• People fairweathering/are only here for the ride
• Terrible info/misleading scouting. “inc” for lone enemies, etc.
• In addition to the above:
  “X is under attack”
  “How many, and who?
  /silence for 10 minutes
  “HURRY UP CAP CIRCLE IS UP”
  /10 seconds later
  “#$%$#^$! go karma train and whatever!”
• Or, redirecting a zerg to stop 1 person from taking a camp.
• People demanding you tag despite the fact you might want to take the break. Don’t do it? The map becomes unqueued.

On our server, there’s a not so unsubstantiated sentiment that pugs have been spoiled rotten by some very good commanders and simply won’t learn how to fend for themselves. In any case, it’s quite a disaster on reset night now due to this degradation of the situation with pugs and more organized folks. Though to be fair, this may apply to the game in general, as zerg content ensues that the skill required to function in this game is very low and one can hide behind a zerg and pretend to be good. Then you remember people complaining about HoT maps….

Consider what a Guild Group might have to deal with:

• Getting ordered around just because you are on the map when you may have your own agenda.
• People that think you’re violating their game mode.
• Random people following you, and imposing whatever.
• Being blamed or targeted when you decide to take it easy.
• On my server… wait, never mind.

Now, on the other hand, consider what a pug might have to deal with,

• Being told to get off siege if they don’t have the right mastery, so they learn to never do it if so…. and then comes the time when nobody uses the siege at all. Cue rage.
• /insert bashing because of class.
• Being called out for a mistake in a rude fashion, often by people that really aren’t that much better. Especially juicy when I note them having to be ress’d 5 times every fight.
• Commanders thinking you are psychic and then berating you when yes, your backline is CC’d and you knowingly jumped in there alone. Not a problem for cool bros like me that pop renewed focus and then talk about how I outlast the entire zerg… wait whoops.
• Commanders not realizing you’re omnipotent. So, mesmers only got 3 utility slots and yes that veil has a really long cooldown. Also, yes it’s possible for water to be on cooldown.
• Being called a PvE’r. Is like people are too insecure they’re not considered epshots that they have to find pve’rs to belittle.
• On the off chance someone wants to get better, they get belittled and mocked if they ask a “stupid question”
• On my server, pugs have the extra challenge of being demanded to be on coms only to find out that either the info isn’t given or the channels are empty anyways.

In any case, it’s very easy to get narcissistic and ignore the people that have helped you without you knowing it. Yea, it’s easy to mock that dude refreshing siege and sitting on that cannon for 5 hours straight, but maybe without ‘em you’d be in tier tumbleweed by now. In the end, people just need to realize everyone has their own agenda and dreams, and work accordingly— at the very least tolerate people that aren’t in your echo chamber.

Entenkommando.5208:

msalakka.4653:

Entenkommando.5208:

Shazmataz.1423:

Tobias Steele.2071:

Quint.3765:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

No.

We aren’t changing anything regarding the layout of the map.

Thank you so much !!! now you just need to remove the Tactivators because clearly nobody wants them.

Speak for yourself please.

Tobias, did you actually read the “5 things most wanted” thread?? There were alot of people who asked that the new gimmicks be removed or to revert to alpine pre HOT.

And I could already see the posts from all the guilds who spent hundreds or thousands of gold on the upgrade.

So? Tough.

Nobody reimbursed me jack kitten when HoT completely invalidated my three-man guild’s upgrades and removed us the ability to +5 objectives or build guild siege.

Fair point. Though you didn’t have to pay for the upgrades before. All you had to do was to actually play with your guild.

And you prefer the gold solution?

it will
i have faith

Sviel.7493:

Dawdler.8521:

Fun fact:

Stand on the west wall of SW tower and pretend you are standing in the SW tower on alpine. Look toward the west. See the sentry/little hut? Thats where Alpine south bay door and walls would be.

Sure you can nitpick and say that “oh but undercroft to garri is the same distance as bay to garri, ergo its the same!” but If you consider the whole border and relative distances, the difference is massive. Even if bay-garri would be the same, spawn-camp/tower-bay-camp/tower-garri add up to alot of difference in time.

This is a post about small-scale play. I’m not drawing any conclusions about distances between keeps and what that might mean. The only goal here was to show that the distances between roaming objectives (camps/towers) did not change significantly.

That’s the problem with your tests, everything on the map was a roaming objective. If you were a lone roamer trying to avoid the enemy zerg on the alpine, you could criss cross the map almost anywhere. You weren’t stuck running along a funneled path or forced to take the long way around which will triple the distance.

If I was trying to annoy the enemy I would do things like hit SE camp, tap hills, tap garri, tap bay, tap bay, flip NW. Travel times included, that would take about 5-7 minutes. I don’t even want to think about how long that would take on the deserted bl.

TheGrimm.5624:

That said never appreciated it when after spending a lot of coin upgrading a BL to have an enemy K-Train come along and just flip it back.

That’s exactly why that system is necessary. You invested time and effort into the upgrades and you cared about defending them. No one kittening cares now.

edit

drunk post please ignore

Zerg, roaming, class? There are lots of options to absorb condi dmg. Vitality already increase your defense against it since you got more HP. If you run full zerker with zero condi removal… well that’s your own fault.

please scrap this horrible map and take all the stupid broken guild upgrades and the stupid pve gimmicks with it.

well there you go, poker 0 – dodgeball 1

i’m starting to think balance isn’t the problem – cough cough-

Dusty Moon.4382:

Akkeros.1675:

Dusty Moon.4382:

There is nothing wrong with the DBL’s that a few tweaks here and there would help.

Don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater as they could always make the ABL’s worse.

just flush the baby and the bathwater
you can tweak a kitten all you want and it is still a kitten

Yeah and people were whining how boring the ABL’s were and WvW started losing players because of that.

We asked for new scenery.

We did NOT ask for:

A vertical map.
Jump pads.
Pop up rocks to face plant into (seriously wtf)
Sandstorms
Shrines for gizmos and gimmicks
Changes to NPCs (lords and champs)

and

Let’s not forget the Oasis event fiasco and how long it took to get it turned off. Good Grenth, we lagged out, or froze, or had about 2 FPS during that event. Horrible. Just horrible.

AND

Last but not least (and VERY important): guild upgrade changes (including new, expensive crap that commanders from even the bigger guilds are now asking donations for) that ended up completely screwing over our small personal and small havoc WvW guilds. So the alienation of solo roamers, upgrader/scouts, and small havocs. Bad, bad stuff.

Lastly, Alpine didn’t feel like a gynormous fractal. DBL does. It’s just reeks of a PvE. And I think most of us can agree. If we wanted PvE, we’d leave the Mists and go PvE.

We could try to fix it, but I am not sure if they’re up to the task. It’d make sense to have at least a rotation, ideally rotate away the current incarnation until things can be thought out.

I would suggest:

• Remove Barricades or leave gaps so all they do is widen paths when destroyed. These do nothing to hinder blobs but are a pain for small groups.
• Open up more paths from center to other parts of the map. The middle is effective wasted space atm, oasis event or not.
• Widen most paths. In the event a fight happens, more pirate shipping isn’t very fun.
• More paths in general. Remove some of these barriers so you don’t get as many meandering paths.
• Shrink Towers/have less attackable walls. There’s so many angles of attack it just places unnecessary strain on scouting defenders, and in a lot of cases people just don’t bother at all.
• Don’t make jump pads such a big deal, make more stairs.
• Look at SW tower. Can you even call this thing a tower? It is badly designed and you should feel bad.
• Tone down all automatic pve gimmicks. Nerf air statues to knockdown, not knockback, nerf fire keep air turret damage, remove cripple from earth keep, tone down the CC from guards.
• Bring back Bloodlust to the middle, the only appreciated middle gimmick.
• Remove Keep “revealed”
• Air/Fire Keep WPs should be usable by whoever owns it.

~Archonwing
SBI Deserted BL Cleanup.

They are not the same, on the Alpine map with swiftness from Garrison lords room to Bay or Hills keep lords room was 1 minute and 15 seconds +/- 10 seconds. On the newer Desert map with swiftness from Garrison lords room to the Fire or Air keep lords room takes between 2 minutes and 30 seconds +/- 10 seconds depending on the route.

This is one of the first things I tested when I played the new maps during beta and again at HoT release because as someone who’s been a commander for 3 years in WvW I care about response time when I am making a judgement call about whether to defend something or let it flip.

I’m sorry but you’re in a minority that like desert bl’s. The guild I run with tried to like desert bl’s, we raided almost exclusively there for awhile, so we really tried. But we watched raid attendance drop over time. People voiced their opinions and stated they simply weren’t having fun fighting gimmicks, chokes, and siege infested keeps. People go in WvW to fight players in a large scale combat. It’s not fun getting your fights disrupted and bothered by cripple fields, rock walls, lava, invis fog, over-tuned & annoying lords, and for the longest time oasis event which now disabled because Anet finally admit they failed us. Point is it was a ridiculous notion for us players to have to endure it for so long.

Everywhere you run it’s canyons & cliffs made smaller by rock walls, chokes at every turn inside keeps where you get rained on by siege and slowed down by chilling fog. Towers have no strategic values and they are so far away, it’s impossible to defend them. Keep lords are so annoying to kill, they’re made even more annoying with iron hide upgrade.

There’s no good flow to how things are designed. Sure the keeps are huge, but there are very little ways for you to maneuver inside them. They’re filled with chokes, lava, cliffs, there aren’t even many good places to put down siege as attackers, and even less good places to have good zerg vs zerg battles. Unlike good ‘ol Bay & Garrison where you had lots of room to regroup, setup siege, de-siege, run flanking attacks, etc.. Or the Hills last stand battle on the bridge and lord room, tons of epic battles happened there. None of those kinds of epic battles were seen in Desert BL’s. We’ve had big fights in fire/air keeps & garrison but none of them compare to the kind of back & forth battles we used to have in bay, hills, and alpine garrison.

The poster above is right in that the desert BL’s are so bad, it would take a lot of work to fix them up. Remember they already gave up on fixing the Oasis event so we have a big huge wasted area in the middle doing absolutely nothing. That’s why it’s probably easier to replace desert with alpine, because alpine’s setup, flow, and design were all sound. The towers had strategic values for both defenders & attackers. Keeps had strategic values and they were fun to fight in, with large courtyards for large battles. You could respond to tower attacks in alpine, you can’t with desert. And there are lots of great open fields for zergs to clash without all the pve gimmicks and things that annoy players.

They would need to revamp the Desert BL’s almost completely to make them fun to play in. And you want them introduce gliding at this point in time when the game mode is in dire condition and needs rescued? Gliding would bring in whole new balance issues and they would need to change a lot of things to prevent exploits and bugs. It’s not something they should even touch right now because it would just add to more issues that’ll need to get fixed later.

TorquedSoul.8097:

I’m fairly certain if they hopped in to the middle of the storm of “why are you killing WvW” posts it would degenerate into Dev vs Forum in a hurry.

They are reading the suggestions and ignoring histrionic outbursts.

That is actually unlikely, when devs have posted in here I have rarely seen a negative response. There may be constructive criticism but not without suggestions as to how to fix the problems.

Usually the response from players has been very positive and polite.

A huge reason for the negativity here is that the devs rarely if ever post, which leads to people becoming negative and caustic.

Then these forums, although not the worst I have seen, are pretty kittened. I suspect the programmers may have drank Duff beer. They need some work done or replaced with better forum software.

If you want to keep playing this game, there is advantage not having HoT for the following reason.

After playing HOT, you might find WvW less rewarding to spend time on. However, HOT contents are extremely boring and grindy that would make you not want to play it either.

So you might quit the whole thing after HOT experience.

Evidence suggests if you know someone who complain about addiction to this game, you could give HOT as gifts. After a couple of months in HOT, they are most likely be happy not playing it.

CuRtoKy.8576:

Nerf chill it shouldn’t do as much as it should compared to everything else in the game

But Chill is only a problem when Reapers are using it.

Nobody complains about Elementalist chill.
Nobody complains about Revenant chill.
Nobody complains about base Necromancer chill.

Let’s put our thinking caps on for a minute: Is the problem reapers, or is it chill?

“We still intend to eventually bring back the Alpine Borderlands map, but it’s not as simple as just toggling it back on. We don’t have the tech for rotating between the two borderlands built yet, and the map itself required a significant amount of content updates to support all of the features that were added to WvW as part of the HoT update.”

This is not the right path. Don’t touch those sacred maps with that PvE crap.