Guild Wars 2

Seth.8906:

Alatar.7364:

Seth.8906:

Alatar.7364:

I saw hackers of all classes in PvP. But mostly it was just teleport to enemy player or knockback with several stacks of stability, but I have never seen what you are talking about and it’s rather …. Interesting that only thieves do that, as the name of your thread suggests. Are you sure you are not just over reacting to a simple Shadowstep + Steal? Cause I have met plenty of people who failed to see that and called hacks without thinking twice. Now, I am definitely not questioning your powers of observation, but merely pointing out that we have been to that whole suspicious “The Thieves are hacking” thingy before.

Boon strip sigil and bye bye stability there is no hack olny ppl who dont know the game. For example point blank can hit remove stability and knok back you with the right timing

I am sorry, it is propably my fault that you missed the “with several stacks of stability” part of my post, I should have written the “with several stacks of stability” in bold.
In all seriousness tell me: If you get hit by a boon strip, be it sigil, trait, weapon skill, shouldn’t it, by a pure coincidence just hypothetically, remove the removed boons icon from your boon bar as well?

Then can be some trait reapply stability.
I use this sigil and i get a lot of whisp they say the same words, now i am sure i dont use hack and lot of ppl say i report you and i m here…

Try use this sigil maybe you can get the same whisp

You totally did not answer my question. But that doesn’t matter.
I just so happen to be using such sigils as well, never stripped so many boons to get past stability with several stacks.
I am simply telling you I got knocked back with stability few times. No reapply stability trait and the boon was still there, with its timer and it’s stacks. Just because you strip lots of boons it definitely doesn’t mean that there are not people who actually use hacks.

That might be just a problem with your resolution or something as mine ‘Ready-window’ does not get even close to Chat window. Not even with 20 people on the server

Well, I actually have one true horror story as well. It was in Forest of Niflhel and at the start of the match, still during ready phase, our thief wrote in team chat: “Hey, I am just testing my Condi Staff build”
I don’t recall how did the match end cause I passed out

Seth.8906:

Alatar.7364:

I saw hackers of all classes in PvP. But mostly it was just teleport to enemy player or knockback with several stacks of stability, but I have never seen what you are talking about and it’s rather …. Interesting that only thieves do that, as the name of your thread suggests. Are you sure you are not just over reacting to a simple Shadowstep + Steal? Cause I have met plenty of people who failed to see that and called hacks without thinking twice. Now, I am definitely not questioning your powers of observation, but merely pointing out that we have been to that whole suspicious “The Thieves are hacking” thingy before.

Boon strip sigil and bye bye stability there is no hack olny ppl who dont know the game. For example point blank can hit remove stability and knok back you with the right timing

I am sorry, it is propably my fault that you missed the “with several stacks of stability” part of my post, I should have written the “with several stacks of stability” in bold.
In all seriousness tell me: If you get hit by a boon strip, be it sigil, trait, weapon skill, shouldn’t it, by a pure coincidence just hypothetically, remove the removed boons icon from your boon bar as well?

DeceiverX.8361:

Jana.6831:

Turk.5460:

Does anyone know how to go directly to the trait panel with one key like this person does at 9:13?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saSCzUS_hHI

I couldn’t find a bind for it in the key bindings, so for years I’ve just been pressing h, then having to manually click the tab.

Edit: Oh, after looking at the video some more, it looks like he is using a macro, the mouse just appears in the correct locations… Is that even allowed?

No idea about the hero panel – but the mouse always being in teh right spot is something you get used to. I guess mine’s always where I need it as well – well almost always.
The person in the video is a ‘she’ btw.

And there’s a lot of good thieves in this game and according to what Deceiver told us how he’s playing (never saw it) – he should be the best – by far!

Good luck – and please don’t randomly accuse people to cheat or anything.

Just regarding the trait swapping, it isn’t the mouse being in the right place; it magically just appears on the trait from totally different locations if you slow down the video.

Terrisimo has historically been good and has done a lot for the community, but Sindrener is the better thief (#1 in sPvP and winner of worlds with amazing displays in WvW) and I am severely disappointed in the very blatant macro use being displayed. Sind is also very helpful and usually willing to provide meaningful insight if you actually care to improve instead of camping outdated/bad kits like I do.

If you really look at the footage, the mouse doesn’t even move; within two frames it’s just outright changed locations. This isn’t a random accusation; Terrismo is actually just cheating in the aforementioned footage.

Min Scherzo is also very skilled, particularly with staff, and has consistently also been a top sPvP’er and impressive and WvW player in the past few years. If you’d prefer to use the staff, he’s the guy to ask about it.

And well, I can provide insight about D/D power, but let’s be honest: The kit is trash and won’t get you any real results while playing it.

As long as I remember it is stated in the Anets own policy Policy: 3rd-Party programs; Multi-Boxing; Macros that Macros are allowed to be used as long as they won’t press more than one skill/click at one time. Is that not the case?

I saw hackers of all classes in PvP. But mostly it was just teleport to enemy player or knockback with several stacks of stability, but I have never seen what you are talking about and it’s rather …. Interesting that only thieves do that, as the name of your thread suggests. Are you sure you are not just over reacting to a simple Shadowstep + Steal? Cause I have met plenty of people who failed to see that and called hacks without thinking twice. Now, I am definitely not questioning your powers of observation, but merely pointing out that we have been to that whole suspicious “The Thieves are hacking” thingy before.

Story of my life.
But these are no news. It’s been happening since ever along with “Obstructed” Impairing Daggers with a clear “not obstructed” line of sight.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Alatar.7364:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Alatar.7364:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Imo, I myself never back down from a fight on my Thief/DD regardless the class. Scrapper, on an equal skill level, should beat the thief, however, some of us want to learn to fight and beat you and the only way to do that is to fight you.

Call it what you will, but to be good or git gud, you have to learn to fight vs good.

I suggest doing that in Unranked matches and/or Custom 1v1 Arenas, rather than in Ranked matches which is, I believe, this thread about.

Lol i think its a general observation that may have been observed in PvP, but really in sPvP or WvW scrappers should beat teffers. call em brazen but even in PvP (both ranked and non) an enemy scrapper is still an enemy. I may beat him and he may beat me…only one way to tell. You may be surprised

I am not sure if I understood you correctly, but in case I did =D ->
I am not at all telling you that you can’t fight Scrapper (or anyone at that point) I am just saying that if you want to practice Thief (or any class ever) then it is highly advised doing that in Unranked/1v1 Arenas and not in Ranked matches as it is highly possible that the lack of experience with the class will cause the team Lose and generaly people play Rank to win. I lost many matches because people went to Rank to practice something they did not try before and we lost right way, I never wrote to them any insults but lets face it: It was totaly * * * * * and selfish decision of them.

In case I did not understand what you ment correctly, just ignore the entire upper part of this post =D

Lets just say were both out in left field,lol. As a thief main (in PvP (thief and guard main in pvp actually) and WvW, I fight all scrappers as the majority of fights end in my favor. Maybe i seem to fight those having a bad day or maybe they are terribad but with my mentality, if I win against them more than lose, ofc I will fight them. If its one I think I am going to lose, I have no issues bailing and finding a diff target until i feel brazen again or if I figured out their rotation.

The question is not whether you kill them, but how long does it take you to kill them.
In most cases, if not all cases, it is better to be off, as a Thief, decapping 2 points or +1ing other Fights, rather then spending but 30 secs fighting Scrappers or any other class that might take long to kill. If you kill them super quick then its ok, but even few more seconds means loss of points or just worse advantage.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Alatar.7364:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Imo, I myself never back down from a fight on my Thief/DD regardless the class. Scrapper, on an equal skill level, should beat the thief, however, some of us want to learn to fight and beat you and the only way to do that is to fight you.

Call it what you will, but to be good or git gud, you have to learn to fight vs good.

I suggest doing that in Unranked matches and/or Custom 1v1 Arenas, rather than in Ranked matches which is, I believe, this thread about.

Lol i think its a general observation that may have been observed in PvP, but really in sPvP or WvW scrappers should beat teffers. call em brazen but even in PvP (both ranked and non) an enemy scrapper is still an enemy. I may beat him and he may beat me…only one way to tell. You may be surprised

I am not sure if I understood you correctly, but in case I did =D ->
I am not at all telling you that you can’t fight Scrapper (or anyone at that point) I am just saying that if you want to practice Thief (or any class ever) then it is highly advised doing that in Unranked/1v1 Arenas and not in Ranked matches as it is highly possible that the lack of experience with the class will cause the team Lose and generaly people play Rank to win. I lost many matches because people went to Rank to practice something they did not try before and we lost right way, I never wrote to them any insults but lets face it: It was totaly * * * * * and selfish decision of them.

In case I did not understand what you ment correctly, just ignore the entire upper part of this post =D

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Imo, I myself never back down from a fight on my Thief/DD regardless the class. Scrapper, on an equal skill level, should beat the thief, however, some of us want to learn to fight and beat you and the only way to do that is to fight you.

Call it what you will, but to be good or git gud, you have to learn to fight vs good.

I suggest doing that in Unranked matches and/or Custom 1v1 Arenas, rather than in Ranked matches which is, I believe, this thread about.

At least you get to win matches. We get constantly teamed with absolutely clueless people. Win 1 lose 5. And before somebody suggests that: No, it’s not because of our Duo.

Ah, i guess somebody stumbled across old Bruce Lee stuff while playing Thief? =D

dlshcbmuipmam.3467:

Sometimes, Necro in pvp would need to face thief alone. Do you guys got any tips on the situation?
Some of the post said core Necro is better to fight thief, could core Necro really beat thief?
I guess it is a pretty bad idea to use core Necro merely because of its ability to duel thief, is it possible for a reaper Necro kite thief for a certain distance in order to meet your teamate?

Jump off the cliff. Or kill yourself by any other means possible. There is less blood from that, it is more merciful and the sooner you die the sooner you will be useful to your team again.
There should be a ‘Suicide button’ automaticaly poping up for Necros, replacing all your weapon, healing and utillity skills whenever Thief is present near you.

kdaddy.5431:

Im sorry but not gonna watch the video because conquest has been the game mode for 6 years.

There is nothing wrong with conquest and everything is wrong with balance.

If you have high mobility you should be glassy or bunkery not both. Currently in GW2 there are no bunkers, just support characters or support bruiser classes like engy and ranger.

Also if i may point out your example is no good, it isnt realistic for any situation.

If a player can decap/cap a node they probably will. If a player cant there is probably a reason like the player going to stop them will win the fight and cant decap it. Also there are very few ESL level players in the game. Like the top 50 players in the game all know one another and if your on the out side looking in there is probably a reason. A tutorial that helps you better understand base mechanics/rotations will not all of a sudden turn a above average player to a ESL player.

Seriously conquests issue is that you need multiple styles of play with multiple individual build comps as well as team comps.

This game hasnt had it since the D/D ele meta days and i think the community has finally said enough.

What?

Should you be in need of a little bit more damage, one of the sigils can be swapped for Sigil of Fallibility. It may not seem like it, but the amount of vulnerability it applies boosts your dmg a lot. Also I am not really sure if 6th of Rune of Adventure is really worth it over entire rune bonuses likes Scholar, Wurm or Vampirism. But I guess it is a matter of personal preference.

Cynz.9437:

Alatar.7364:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

CreedOfGod.9764:

I hope they nerf /p to the ground honestly. Getting tired of head shot spam ez mode since it makes using other weapon sets so much more difficult to use against it. I’d be happy if they changed stealth attacks based of both hands instead of just main.

Why? Lots of initiative waste when you let a HS spamming teef do its thing when you are not even casting anything ;P

Free kill in my books.

Not sure if I can agree with that, HS was bugged for a long time now, cause quite often it interrupts the target when the target is not casting anything. I keep getting interrupted when I am just running. I thought I am just being salty, so I asked other Thief to try it out with me, and my HS were interrupting him when he was only walking. Happened in almost 25% of cases.

Stow weapon, you sure AA wasn’t on?

It wasn’t on, we were just hitting running target, no fighting. Although I didn’t know that it can interrupt even AA, that is quite … disappointing

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

CreedOfGod.9764:

I hope they nerf /p to the ground honestly. Getting tired of head shot spam ez mode since it makes using other weapon sets so much more difficult to use against it. I’d be happy if they changed stealth attacks based of both hands instead of just main.

Why? Lots of initiative waste when you let a HS spamming teef do its thing when you are not even casting anything ;P

Free kill in my books.

Not sure if I can agree with that, HS was bugged for a long time now, cause quite often it interrupts the target when the target is not casting anything. I keep getting interrupted when I am just running. I thought I am just being salty, so I asked other Thief to try it out with me, and my HS were interrupting him when he was only walking. Happened in almost 25% of cases.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

CreedOfGod.9764:

I hope they nerf /p to the ground honestly. Getting tired of head shot spam ez mode since it makes using other weapon sets so much more difficult to use against it. I’d be happy if they changed stealth attacks based of both hands instead of just main.

Why? Lots of initiative waste when you let a HS spamming teef do its thing when you are not even casting anything ;P

Free kill in my books.

Not sure if I can agree with that, HS was bugged for a long time now, cause quite often it interrupts the target when the target is not casting anything. I keep getting interrupted when I am just running. I thought I am just being salty, so I asked other Thief to try it out with me, and my HS were interrupting him when he was only walking. Happened in almost 25% of cases.

Choppy.4183:

But, yeah, to be clear, I’m not calling for further nerfs to endurance or anything, though I would like to see those pvp changes pushed through to wvw.

I imagine that it must be …interesting, in WvW, especially with the Signet of Agility still shining there without the nerf it got in PvP.
Condi D/D is a chapter of its own, it is just… not worthy to be talked about. I run, play, enjoy and kill with about every weapon set and comp. there is, but not Condi D/D.

Not ment as an insult to anyone using Condi D/D, it is but a matter of a personal preference

Choppy.4183:

Alatar.7364:

Can we be more specific here? I’d like to know your opinion.

Sure, as mentioned by myself and others in this thread, thief is much more forgiving of mistakes than it used to be, especially since HoT was released and people learned how to play the new spec.

It used to be true that a single mistake (or maybe two) would mean death for a glass thief if the enemy knew to capitalize on it, but not so much now. The unparalleled mobility (not just the best, which would be fine, but another league), combined with the number of evades available (often attached to damaging skills), traits like Unhindered Combatant, and the low cd on Bandit’s Defense, gives even fairly inexperienced players room to be effective and plenty of chances if they make a mistake.

Whether that means nerfs are in order is debatable. My personal preference would be to see some of that toned down to increase the risk in small scale, while buffing to give the profession more large scale value. Regardless, thieves really don’t have that “live fast, die young” thing going anymore.

While I can agree with most of what you said, I don’t agree with part about Evades.
People complained about that a lot, and Daredevils evades got nerfed down not only several times, but also quite ‘brutaly’ and effectively. Number of dodges a Daredevil can use now is nowhere near “OP” state. After all it is the very Idea of its Elite Spec. It got balanced quite a lot and complaining about it now would be almost the same as criticizing that a Warrior can use ‘Berserker mode’.

About the Badnit’s Defense. While that is no argument at all, I still have to say that I very rarely see Thieves use it, although I myself use it when I play Staff. On the other hand, it is true that it’s Cooldown is… ‘super low’ and I am quite surprised that it was not increased/nerfed, yet. And even though I use it aswell, the cooldown should be increased indeed.

Also, how @babazhook stated:
Where in the past it might have been " a thief makes one mistake and dies" it becomes “a thief makes two mistakes and dies” whereas with other classes it might have been “a XXXX can make 4 mistakes and dies , becoming an XXX can make 6 mistakes and dies’.”

^ I believe that this is still true.

Choppy.4183:

Alatar.7364:

The answer to your question is very easy.
The thing about Thief is that in order to beat another player (not talking about new/unexperienced players), you must not make a single (literally) mistake. Other professions, while fighting against Thief, can make several mistakes and get away with it. If a Thief makes a single mistake while facing same “skill level player” he will be screwed almost immediately.
Thus people complaining about Thief being OP don’t realize that they were not killed in fight by OP profession but by a player himself.
Thief winning fight is direct result of players (humans) precision, timing and mastery and not a result of passive procs or “overpowered” abilities/utilities.

That hasn’t been true for a long time. Well over a year now, at least.

Can we be more specific here? I’d like to know your opinion.

theodor.3480:

I’ve been lurking on the forums for some time, looking for info and suck and the great majority of the threads i see are all salty about thief being op and whatnot. Now i ask you why all the salt? Are you annoyed that thieves got stealth and and extra dodges? No CD on weapon skills? Well you don’t have to. If you don’t build for stealth, you won’t get it, or get it in low numbers with small benefits (looking a CnD and Backstab ICD here). You say thieves spam weapon skills? Dodge, cc, fear them or make them waste that precious ini that is in limited number so that he can aa only.
But thieves have so much dodge, why can’t i hit? Condi is your friend here… Thieves melt with condi, with 13k hp in glass gear they will melt.

So at the end of the rant i want to ask you why so salty against thief when there are many counters? This is coming from a thief, and I love the class over any others.

Cheers and thanks for reading.

Edit – typos i think

The answer to your question is very easy.
The thing about Thief is that in order to beat another player (not talking about new/unexperienced players), you must not make a single (literally) mistake. Other professions, while fighting against Thief, can make several mistakes and get away with it. If a Thief makes a single mistake while facing same “skill level player” he will be screwed almost immediately.
Thus people complaining about Thief being OP don’t realize that they were not killed in fight by OP profession but by a player himself.
Thief winning fight is direct result of players (humans) precision, timing and mastery and not a result of passive procs or “overpowered” abilities/utilities.

Lahmia.2193:

Pretty much all melee weapons have 130 range, but they can actually hit at 170. So its very very unlikely that they’d make this change for thief Staff only.

Not only to that of course. Same could apply for Revenants Staff.

I wonder, shouldn’t the range of Staff Auto-attack be atleast little bit higher than the range of Dagger? (currently 130)
It is sometimes quite confusing in battle, also increased melee range with Staff would make sense. Not talking about 200+ of course, more like 150-170.

saerni.2584:

Sword/X remains in a bad place. Few tried running it and I haven’t seen it attempted in a ranked setting.

Interesting Roundup, altough this statement is not true. I met many Thieves playing S/D and S/P in Ranked. I play S/P in Ranked myself, yet not as often as D/P, but then I played with Staff four times longer than I did with D/P, which I used throughout this whole season, so that would kind of explain why you haven’t seen it in Ranked =D

Koto.1824:

I actually tried playing with CS in the past, but I like deadly arts because of the utility it brings. This build doesn’t normally one shot things, so having more utility and traits like improv would be more useful. But I can see CS working for certain matchups.

I see.
Just a question abou Improvisation: Isn’t the recharge on Steal randomly recharging any random skill? Ergo doesn’t it recharge even the utility skills that you are currently not using?

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Alatar.7364:

I think the Sigil of Fire could be swaped for Sigil of Blood, as Sigil of Blood steals more health than is the dmg of Sigil of Fire.

Also Critical Strikes used instead of Deadly Arts, using Hidden Killer trait might be fun aswell. Considering your combo will propably be CnD + Steal, it will get you beautiful dmg bonus for striking from stealth.

Blood and fire can be interchanged but it’s not too much of a difference either way, it’s very hard to drop DA for CS, due to the amount of utility and damage DA brings, the extra damage from Mug normally outweighs the damage from CS plus the heal it provides, then there is Improvisation which can be extremely beneficial.

All CS bring some is extra damage with not much else.

Even with Mug, CS still provides a considerabli more dmg than DA, which is what this build aims for, dmg. Although I’d suggest CS only cause of the Hidden Killer trait, otherwise it would not make much of a difference, indeed.

I think the Sigil of Fire could be swaped for Sigil of Blood, as Sigil of Blood steals more health than is the dmg of Sigil of Fire.

Also Critical Strikes used instead of Deadly Arts, using Hidden Killer trait might be fun aswell. Considering your combo will propably be CnD + Steal, it will get you beautiful dmg bonus for striking from stealth.

Cynz.9437:

saerni.2584:

Agreed, there are good thieves that don’t stream. Anyone who plays thief at a relatively high level deserves some kudos for putting up with constant abuse for playing the class.

There should be an achievement for this tbh. The amount of BMing and reporting you get as thief, especially in pvp and/or when thief is not doing so great in whatever meta, is rather ridiculous. I still have nasty flashbacks from season 1 :<

Two double truths in one post. Me I like very much ^^

KrHome.1920:

I’ve always been a fan of S/P.

Unfortunately you have a serious problem when running into a D/P thief. And most thieves run D/P.

Dash (anti root), Bandit’s Defense (anti PW) and stealth on demand of course negate the whole S/P mechanic.

It’s a bad decision to start a match knowing the opponents +1 class hardcounters you even 1v1.

Not sure if I can agree with that. Like I said I run D/P in Ranked too, at the moment and I am the one to pretty much get countered by S/P =D PW ruins or evades my entire burst even at the most unpredictable times and hits me in the process, which is why stealth is not really helping me anyway.

Ario.8964:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsaVn8lClOhFmCGOBkmiFYCTLBEAyAzdwT4K0LMcGaDA-TpBEQBMc/BAcIAiwRAgAPAAzVGABnAAA

This is the setup I’d use for s/p. The lynx runes cover the loss of swiftness from dash and bound allows you to have stealth access and bursts. Basi venom isn’t needed due to pw’s stun so impact strike gives you a huge benefit in quick stomping to shift teamfight momentum. Pulm let’s interrupts do massive damage and bound’s extra damage bonus covers the lack of other offensive stats from, say, a scholar rune. Still requires timing and positioning but can be extremely deadly when you get your stuff to land on an unsuspecting target.

This is a really nice idea cause it thinks of a lots of problems, but no matter how stereotypically it might sound: Wouldn’t it still be better to use Rune of the Scholar and Dash, and completely skip on Bound? Since Swords special stealth attack is not really that good, and if stealth is needed for decaps or other movement, you could do the Black powder + Cluster Bomb, or if really required swap Bandits Defense for Blinding powder and do Black powder + Blidning powder for extended stealth duration, if such situation should occur?
Also, I’d propably go with Brawler’s Tenacity instead of Havoc Mastery if using so many Daredevil uttility skills, 7% bonus doesn’t seem much to me anyway, but I guess that is just point of view.

I agree with pretty much everything that was said/written. Not only it would help, it would also be a very interestsing change, could really use some change for once.

Also, if people didn’t like it, there could be an option to check like select: 5v5 or 4v4 Game Mode, although I think that would not be required nor wanted as it would split the possible Player Pool for each game mode a lot, resulting in worse and more unbalanced matches.

Jugglemonkey.8741:

I play a lot of S/P, it’s not viable in sPvP because you have to make sacrifices D/P doesn’t. WvW it can be good, but D/P or condi still outpaces it.

If you take dash, you have no stealth access without blasting smoke fields which eats all your ini, so decapping vs a team that’s watching for it is hard. Playing standard D/P traits with S/P is a lot of fun in WvW and I enjoy skirmishing with it, but the lack of stealth means you’re an easy kill for a D/P thief on the fringes.

If you take bound for the stealth access, you’re either playing DA in which case you’re much slower than a D/P thief over ground and will lose the decap wars, or you’re playing acro in which case you lose a lot of offensive utility for passives and you still can’t team fight as well as staff (although staff with S/P offhand is a pretty nice duelling set vs some specs).

Lastly, stab heavily counters S/P as it makes it easier to walk out of pistol whips and you get no interrupt damage. Shadow shot and heartseeker work regardless of stab.

These things are true to an extent for all thief builds (if you get caught you get killed etc), but S/P has less tools available than D/P, which doesn’t have to sacrifice DPS traits for stealth like S/P does. This is why it’s the meta in a game mode that needs stealth for tactical advantage.

True, all of it. Although I take Fun Factor in to account as well, that sometimes compensate a utility or usefulnes for me, but I understand that facts are facts

Vitali.5039:

Alatar.7364:

S/P could actually make its way to Ranked without being “blamed ‘n’ flamed”?

What do people think I wonder?

You’ll be random blamed/flamed even if you are the best thief and you’re running d/p meta build.

True, although I tryed S/P only in Unranked because I didnt want to spoil the Ranked matches for others, if it was not playable well enough. What I ment by that is that I used to get blamed a lot for using Staff and not D/P in Ranked, though I am running D/P, too at the moment.
Well, but there will always be expert people like that I guess. =D

I wonder, is S/P underestimated for a reason, in PvP?
I gave it a go for some time now and all I have is great succes with it.
Yes, sometimes you have to spam Pistol Whip to survive, or to deal greater dmg, but it has nice synergy with Steal. Also thanks to the same skill, you can pretty much counter and surprise D/P Thief in case of having to Duel.

First, let me assure Everyone that I am well aware of D/P having much greater use of all of its weapon skills (Black Powder + Heartseeker, etc.) thus surpasing S/P in usefulness. (Although you could do Black Powder + Cluster Bomb with S/P)
But S/P can have a greater one time burst that also lets you evade attacks at the same time, also that additional condi clense done by Infiltrator’s Strike is very useful, too. Not mentioning that Head Shot will still fill its purpose if used with DD.

Once again, I know D/P potential and I accept that it is more effective, just wanted to know if S/P could actually make its way to Ranked without being “blamed ‘n’ flamed”?

What do people think I wonder?

PS: My opinion that S/P is underestimated in PvP is based purely on my own experience, by which I mean I met only One S/P Thief out of thousands of matches that I’ve played, so feel free to correct me at this statement

…..* hug *…..

Saiyan.1704:

It’s missing two big factors though,

• Class Specific Builds
• Class Specific MMR

Though I know what algorithms are, I don’t really understand them, so I have to ask to be 100% sure: Wouldn’t it be super hard to create an algorithm with so many variables, e.g. traits, lines of each class and then make it to work with all other algorithms/ sub-algorithms with an outcome of minimal to none errors?

Azukas.1426:

Alatar.7364:

Azukas.1426:

Alatar.7364:

Well to be completely honest Azukas is right at plenty of points of his argumentations, no doubt. Only it feels like, atleast judging by what I read, that almost everyone you meet is bad, that is highly unlikely, I met people who though the same as you do and they were all…well you know what they were. Not saying the same about you, no way, it just sounds the same.

Flame me all you want, and criticize me…idc b/c I’m right and you know it.

I am sorry I got nothing.

Translated your post for what it was

So I created a post in which I wrote that I agree with your arguments about Thiefs in Ranked and that there is no doubt about it, and this is your response?
You have some serious issues with either logic or you are hypocratical as ****.
In both cases you just made yourself look like a morron, not sure if anyone could take you seriously now.

Azukas.1426:

Alatar.7364:

Well to be completely honest Azukas is right at plenty of points of his argumentations, no doubt. Only it feels like, atleast judging by what I read, that almost everyone you meet is bad, that is highly unlikely, I met people who though the same as you do and they were all…well you know what they were. Not saying the same about you, no way, it just sounds the same.

Flame me all you want, and criticize me…idc b/c I’m right and you know it.

I am sorry, did what I wrote sound like I am flamming you? Cause I am somehow pretty sure I did the exact opposite of flamming.

Well to be completely honest Azukas is right at plenty of points of his argumentations, no doubt. Only it feels like, atleast judging by what I read, that almost everyone you meet is bad, that is highly unlikely, I met people who though the same as you do and they were all…well you know what they were. Not saying the same about you, no way, it just sounds the same.

I don’t really think that this is going to make anyhow great difference.

Azukas.1426:

Ario.8964:

I actually haven’t been hit with much flame myself but I’ve seen others get flamed in matches. I don’t know why people decide to blame thief but I just choose to ignore it. If they rage at me for playing it my response is “You got me nerfed here, enjoy the result”. Or you can just ignore them, practice, and make them eat their words when you play really well.

The problem many (including me) have with a lot of players who play thief are they just aren’t good at it. Ranked Season is not the place to practice your thief skills, and it becomes quite apparent in the middle of a match how bad they are.

Thief is truly a class that requires mastery of it to perform at a mediocre level. You have to be fundamentally sound just to stop yourself from accidently dying. No other class has that barrier of entry to play it in this game.

So when I queue and get a bad thief on my team in ranked season you’re kitten right I’ma harp on him/her. Go play unranked or hot join to learn how to play thief don’t waste the time of the other 4 players on your team if you suck. The worst is when you get 2-3 thieves and the ones that refuse to switch are the bad ones 90% of the time.

I’m sorry but that’s the way it is. Unless you are in top percentage of thief players I suggest you don’t even touch the class in ranked play.

You realize that Thief is super dependant on its Team performing well or atlest average performance, basically if Thief is doing bad or sometimes does nothing useful at all, it might as well be yours or your teams fault. I claim to be quite experienced with Thief, know exactly what and when to do, but when my team is dying in every 3vs3 , 2vs2 or even 3vs2, I can’t do absolutely anything, can’t even decap cause enemy kills my team too quickly, yet I am the one who is blamed in the end. Even when I outnumber fights and leave my team in 3vs2 low and 1 downed enemy, they still manage to die somehow and blame Thief for not helping =D

Well, it is nice that you tried to make something new, but…
This build has no potential basically at anything, what this build is trying to achieve will be achieved by other professions in a much better way, while bringing even some support, which this build pretty much doesn’t and no rune can compensate for that.
While I can see (I hope I do) the purpose for which you made this build, the simple truth is that it is not worth it. Just keep in mind that it is not Thiefs nor Daredevils job to do that which this build is trying to do, that profession is simply not fit for that role. If you wanna go that way I would suggest balance DPS with Toughness, maybe vitality, but forget about that toughness/vitality/Condi/healing power, to be honest it almost makes no sense as such combination will have no effect/outcome/potential whatsoever. If you wanna do that, Condi Druid might be the way to go.

EDIT: Also, don’t combine more than 4 stats, that is super ineffective in the overall outcome.

alchemyst.2165:

Marauder is still better, especially considering you’re a thief whose main defense is not getting hit in the first place; that’s your best method of avoiding damage. Vitality will help you with both defense against condis and defense against power.

That actually makes sense, good point. Thanks

Cynz.9437:

Alatar.7364:

Cynz.9437:

Alatar.7364:

BikeIsGone.8675:

During my placements I got asked – a lot! – if I would take close or rush far at the start of the game. Although (in 90% of cases) this is plain bad, people would still get mad at me, if i said that I would do neither. Just getting asked these questions indicate, that those people have no idea what they are talking about. And there is a special place for such people: My blocklist.

I am not sure if I understood you correctly. So where do you go or what do you do with your Thief at the start of the match?

You go mid/watch home for invades. Jump w/e target is, hopefully down them or at least get them low and run for decaps. In current meta going far is suicidal and waste of time. Capping home is kind of OK but in higher rating enemies tend to invade home point and thief is worst dueler/point fighter in game so it is auto loss in many cases.

If you have rather bunkery composition (e.g. druids/eles, engis) and duoq with good player (preferably high dps as well, e.g. mes), you can try to invade far for quick kill and rotate back to mid. But this is in realm of what ifs and additional variables.

I see, thought as much. Though I almost always go close to let more Mid-like classes go Mid, but often 2 enemies come our Close as you said. Yet mostly people don’t really predict that so it is hard to decide whenever is it better to go Close or Mid and Watch for Close, one way or another, always Thiefs fault =D

At higher rating you know pretty much everyone and know what they do so it is easy to predict (e.g. misha/sind always push far as duo, zan always pushes far, so does vaans). At lower ratings people do not push far as often and even if they do they are usually pretty bad – if you are any good you can solo them as thief even (i actually managed win 1v2 vs 2 DHs in gold lel).

I see, well I am Gold at the moment so such scenarios might occur, just whenever Thief tries to suggest not going Close, it will immediately get flammed =D

alchemyst.2165:

No. A bit of extra toughness isn’t worth losing that much health, which boosts your defense against both power builds and condition builds.

Well I thought the same, but when I tried Demolisher I noticed that even that few of extra toughness is really effective against DPS, even more than more health producted by Marauder.

Cynz.9437:

Alatar.7364:

BikeIsGone.8675:

During my placements I got asked – a lot! – if I would take close or rush far at the start of the game. Although (in 90% of cases) this is plain bad, people would still get mad at me, if i said that I would do neither. Just getting asked these questions indicate, that those people have no idea what they are talking about. And there is a special place for such people: My blocklist.

I am not sure if I understood you correctly. So where do you go or what do you do with your Thief at the start of the match?

You go mid/watch home for invades. Jump w/e target is, hopefully down them or at least get them low and run for decaps. In current meta going far is suicidal and waste of time. Capping home is kind of OK but in higher rating enemies tend to invade home point and thief is worst dueler/point fighter in game so it is auto loss in many cases.

If you have rather bunkery composition (e.g. druids/eles, engis) and duoq with good player (preferably high dps as well, e.g. mes), you can try to invade far for quick kill and rotate back to mid. But this is in realm of what ifs and additional variables.

I see, thought as much. Though I almost always go close to let more Mid-like classes go Mid, but often 2 enemies come our Close as you said. Yet mostly people don’t really predict that so it is hard to decide whenever is it better to go Close or Mid and Watch for Close, one way or another, always Thiefs fault =D

Title says it all.
Do you think that Demolisher Amulet with its lower health but higher toughness and thus much more effective self-healing, (better DPS survival) is worth it versus Marauders biger health, thus less effective healing but better Condi survival?

BikeIsGone.8675:

During my placements I got asked – a lot! – if I would take close or rush far at the start of the game. Although (in 90% of cases) this is plain bad, people would still get mad at me, if i said that I would do neither. Just getting asked these questions indicate, that those people have no idea what they are talking about. And there is a special place for such people: My blocklist.

I am not sure if I understood you correctly. So where do you go or what do you do with your Thief at the start of the match?

Elxdark.9702:

Alatar.7364:

Elxdark.9702:

You can still play Staff as it was meant to be with DA

Excuse me, but why do you think that Staff was ment to be played with DA?

Sorry that was more like a personal opinion than a fact, I personally like to play staff with DA I think they support each other really well, acro for me is too many dodges.

I see, I was just seeking new opinions and reasons. For example I sometimes play it with CS rather than DA, it goes well with the Daredevil rune + Vault, or simply enhances 3rd Staff Auto-attack, quite a lot.