Guild Wars 2

Garrisyl.7402:

Algreg.3629:

repetitive griefing of targeted specific players

Ah, yes. This is an interesting claim indeed. Can griefing the griefers be considered griefing? Have they deserved it? Isn’t it better to grief two guys before they can grief the entire Map? Is it just of me?

So many questions, so few answers.

The champ train is toxic, and something should be done about. This chat isn’t what new players should have to see.

No, that is quite a clear claim, not interesting at all. Yes, it can. And google “vigilantism” if you find any time in between your griefing endeavours.

Garrisyl.7402:

Algreg.3629:

well, if you think that behaviour makes you any better than those two, you are wrong.

Just playing the way I want, mate.

well, if that marketing claim includes repetitive griefing of targeted specific players, I guess we can just drop all rules of conduct in this game. And I am certainly not your “mate” if that is your general mindset.

Garrisyl.7402:

While I was helping a friend of mine leveling in Queensdale, I noticed two players who were especially rude, toxic and profane. I added them to my friends list.

Now every time I see them online training in QD and I have nothing better to do, I invite some guildies to start killing champs in random order. They usually log out after 15 minutes or move to another area. .

well, if you think that behaviour makes you any better than those two, you are wrong.

first of all, OP could clearly inform himself better if he wants to open such a thread. the meagre silver pieces are completely irrelevant in “training”. And the FG train is not more challenging, some people prefer QD because they haven´t unlocked the map or find the route more convenient.

That being said, players will always encounter “get off my lawn” trash talk in many maps. Ignore, block, report, whatever. Personally, I don´t care much about QD, sometimes I hop in there when I want to finish dailies before leaving for work. I cannot imagine how people can stand “training” for hours, a major part of that being hanging out at the boar spot without any action. But that is their decision. Many new players will probably not even notice what is going on in QD. Most new players, if not all, will be completely unable to win against any champ there. A new player with any gaming skill will probably consider “training” for days a huge waste of time and very boring, I doubt he will be kept there and become a bad player. A bad player, apparently THE target audience for GW2, will not improve, neither in Orr, nor in QD, as clearly shown by recent harder LS events. Just let it go, we don´t need another QD thread every other week.

people don´t want to do what I want to do, especially at the time I want to do it. Loot cannot be shared, hence I cannot get freebies from other players. Clearly, there is no point in playing with other players. The game is “antisocial”. Mhmm.

Fafnir.5124:

Why cant we build siege to kill world bosses. Would be realistic way to kill dragons. Would allow for more mobs and stronger mobs to be introduced in events. Introduce new level of strategy. stepping on monsters toes shouldn’t do anything. A bolder to the face is another story. I apologist if this was already a thread. Could also introduce pve supply in major cities gained from edge of the mist matches.

people complain about the Zhaitan battle – which seemed reasonable to me. Stabby stabby seems rather silly against such a force of (un)nature. But I can already see the complaints of not feeling “herolishy”.

Drakent.9605:

blakdoxa.7520:

Seems people are still shooting in the dark here.

Op doesn’t want a healer, but healing itself to actually be useful beyond your self-healing skill. In terms of support (i.e. helping others), healing support is terrible compared to other support options.
That’s why it’s often tossed aside. Also add to the fact that it requires a lot of invest to even be mediocre.
The scaling can be revised so it can actually be useful support for those that want to invest in it.

Thank you !!!!

Again like I say two group of ppl on this forum

group 1 (who cares about healing dps is far better)

and group 2 like my self who care’s to be doing other thing then dpsing

As I keep saying this game is design to be more then just dps the tools is allrdy in the game so is not I am asking to make any changes but improvement

The healing ability to help other is weak and can be improve,

1) Regeneration is by far the weakest off all the healing ability in the game b/c is effected by the person own healing stats instead of the caster. They should improve this by either making it stackable like might or make it heal by who ever has the strongest healing stat on the group

2) Healing stats to weak, now maybe the reason for this is b.c maybe anet is trying to avoid player becoming supertank and going around being impossible kill, so maybe they could add like a hidden bonus effect like outgoin heal into healing stats where the healing amount is a bit stronger when you heal other then your self

okay, I still think you are completely wrong on that whole healing others thing :P but I can agree with you on the general stat problem. I already have recently argued in another thread that the extremely wonky scaling is really the source of GW2´s dps/zerker tyranny. Power and Precision scale really good (not sure yet of the new ferocity) AND synergize with each other. Other stats scale very bad. I really don´t want woosh woosh stand in the corner healers, but am no against more stat diversity. The diminishing returns of all stats should be re-evalued and adjusted – but of cause that would cause a massive backlash in the player community. Not sure if anet really would like to put up with this :P

Scrambles.2604:

With your gun analogy, you’re saying guns can be used by bad people, so none of us should have guns. Even if they give out free, magic bullet proof vests with the guns that would also magically prevent the bad people from shooting you. But honestly, the analogies and equations are getting a little silly and are obfuscating the point.

that is not at all what I said, but I see, you are still doing your thang. And it is not possible to have a reasonable discussion with you. But whatever rocks your boat.

Scrambles.2604:

Algreg.3629:

Scrambles.2604:

Algreg.3629:

your arguments mostly boil down to A is bad, A is already in game, so even if B can be bad, it does not matter cause A is already there. But A bad and B bad is A+B bad.

If you care to read, no, personally I don´t care about trash talk, I ignore it, block it or report it if it is really offensive. But I play pvp a lot in all kinds of games and am used to the abusive types. And another thing: Pve exactly is not a competitive environment.

Well, a big part of forum complaints consist of stricly pve players feeling “forced” into pvp modes, so I guess there is actually a rather big portion of the player base that only enjoys pve. Personally, I will never understand this as I see myself as a GW2 player and that includes all content, still, pve only seems to be a big thing.

The very nature of duels requires consent. That is literally the opposite of being forced into something. The implication that you are forced to duel is completely unreasonable.

My argument boils down to – players tolerate A in the context of B, but do not tolerate A in the context of C. But A is still the same in both contexts.

and now you are taking lines from me and insert them into different, unrelated parts of my argumentation. Also, you resort to completely ignore that the duel request itself is less of a problem than things that may follow after decline, which has been clearly established earlier as one major issue. You are losing it now.

I was just speaking in equations just like you were, but whatever. Then you said some people feel “forced” to pvp, so i addressed that. But i guess i must be losing it.

A = Harassment
B = PvE
C = Duels

The duel request is fine. You decline and move on. If a player then starts harassing you, that is not a duel. That is harassment. Your issue is with harassment yet you blame duels.

EDIT – additionally, there is no evidence that duels would create more trolls, as your first equation suggested. I think it would be more reasonable to assume the same players that harass you in sPvP and in dungeons are the same that would harass you in duels. So, chances are the people you are worried about harassing you are already on your block list.

This isn’t reefer madness — the ability to duel wont suddenly turn decent folks into trolls.

you take the equation and twist it by redefining its “variables” inconsistently, then tell us “hey, look, it is just the same like this” – which is completely unrelated to the thing I expressed.

Then I said people complain about being forced into pvp all the time and used it as an indicator for a big pve-only community – which you doubted. Then you take that and twist it into “people are not forced into duels as they can decline them, so it is all cool”. Which was not those people´s concern to begin with.

Your next trick is telling us over and over again that we are not afraid of the actual duels, but of harassment. Which technically is true. But that is the same as saying “hey, you are afraid of the gun. That is stupid, guns are harmless, you need to be afraid of the bullets”. And you keep denying that harassment can be a – CAN BE, NOT HAS TO BE (which noone claimed) – likely consequence of declining a duel request.

Not to mention you keep ignoring every reason and concern you are given, reiterate how we have no meaningful reasons, hence our claims are trivial.

Sorry, that is just not cutting it. I guess you can reiterate the self-same things you have been reiterating in your last five posts now, but I think I stop wasting my time in this merry go round of yours.

Shademehr.1397:

There are some people who just lose their minds over a Commander Tag. Commanders aren’t some mystical Pied Piper and we’re not the rats that are forced to follow them. If you don’t want to follow a Commander, then don’t. If seeing eleventeen brazillion Commander tags on a map is the kind of thing that gets your skivvies all knotted up, then pick one and join his/her squad. Problem solved.

the problem is WvW. In pve content, commanders rarely serve any purpose and are easily ignored. But if you enter a WvW map and see 5 tags on your mini-map, it becomes kinda disruptive – especially when there is competitiveness involved or simply trolling that other commander guy.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Algreg.3629:

OP´s proposal will still not stop the ridiculous amount of trolling or whatever that is done with those tags. A different proposal: when a player wants to tag up, have a quick poll pop up for every player on the map (well, of the relevant faction only in WvW naturally), similar to the party kick mechanic, “player x wants to tag as commander, agree? yes/no”. Simple majority vote wins.

Yes, because having a poll pop up on your screen every other minute every time someone wants to use their tag wouldn’t be obnoxious either.

lol, true, I actually did not consider this.

nightwulf.1986:

It’s interesting to hear people embrace the status quo so readily. Anet is more in support of people like the OP than everyone thinks. Maybe not exactly like what the OP wants but they recognize that right now the best support options that group play can offer in PVE is high DPS with untraited (minimally traited) support skills. They have said that they are going to make it so that players have more options to benefit a group than just killing things faster (in a multi-meta way, hopefully because isn’t that the goal?). Now, people in this thread have already shrugged off the notion of any changes to the game being made to that end. Keep in mind they said that they were changing the way crit damage worked and followed through on it, much to the chagrin of people who enjoyed the status quo. So, keep in mind, there may be a highly beneficial alternative to stacking dps stats in the future. And when that happens, people will adapt to that too. So, instead of shooting down ideas for alternatives to stacking dps to engage content and be highly successful, I’d advise that you start dreaming up meaningful alternatives so that we aren’t given completely passive gameplay.

people have not been shooting down ideas for alternatives, just the single proposal OP made. Throughout the thread, he has clearly demonstrated he does not understand his own premises and the changes he proposes will inevitably lead to a trinity style game.

OP´s proposal will still not stop the ridiculous amount of trolling or whatever that is done with those tags. A different proposal: when a player wants to tag up, have a quick poll pop up for every player on the map (well, of the relevant faction only in WvW naturally), similar to the party kick mechanic, “player x wants to tag as commander, agree? yes/no”. Simple majority vote wins.

Scrambles.2604:

Algreg.3629:

your arguments mostly boil down to A is bad, A is already in game, so even if B can be bad, it does not matter cause A is already there. But A bad and B bad is A+B bad.

If you care to read, no, personally I don´t care about trash talk, I ignore it, block it or report it if it is really offensive. But I play pvp a lot in all kinds of games and am used to the abusive types. And another thing: Pve exactly is not a competitive environment.

Well, a big part of forum complaints consist of stricly pve players feeling “forced” into pvp modes, so I guess there is actually a rather big portion of the player base that only enjoys pve. Personally, I will never understand this as I see myself as a GW2 player and that includes all content, still, pve only seems to be a big thing.

The very nature of duels requires consent. That is literally the opposite of being forced into something. The implication that you are forced to duel is completely unreasonable.

My argument boils down to – players tolerate A in the context of B, but do not tolerate A in the context of C. But A is still the same in both contexts.

and now you are taking lines from me and insert them into different, unrelated parts of my argumentation. Also, you resort to completely ignore that the duel request itself is less of a problem than things that may follow after decline, which has been clearly established earlier as one major issue. You are losing it now.

Scrambles.2604:

Beldin.5498:

DaShi.1368:

This thread (and the others like it) are exactly why there shouldn’t be open-world dueling.

If you are not in favor of dueling, here are some of the things you’ve been called by its supporters in this thread:

Lazy
Scared/cowardly
Delusional
Over-sensitive
Bitter
Ignorant
Stubborn Control-freaks
Whiners
Fear-mongerers
Angry
Foolish
Crazy
Have Trivial/Invalid concerns
Snippy
Magnet for trolls (love this one)
Liars
Anti-fun
Stupid
Selfish
Absurd
Having completely unbelievable opinions
Entitled
Unreasonable
Trolls/Bullies/Griefers (yes, seriously, and after all of the above was said about those against open-world dueling)
Asking to be harassed (Asking for it)
Petty
Silly
Haters
Over-emotional

And that’s only when they don’t just dismiss your opinions completely as not worthy considering.

These are the people that are telling us that there won’t be harassment and yet are being rude, insulting, and dismissive to those who simply don’t agree with them. If we can’t expect open world dueling’s biggest proponents to act maturely when discussing it, how can we expect any better from the trolls and griefers waiting for dueling to get their rocks off by harassing people who just want to play the game they bought as advertised? Since Guild Wars 1, Guild Wars has been about team play in pvp. Dueling is possible but has never been the focus of the game. It would be a major deviation, if this changed.

I saw earlier in this thread that custom arena is not a good option for dueling because it is costly. Yet, I never see dueling supporters making threads suggesting ways to improve the custom arenas or offering alternative suggestions to open-world dueling that are less intrusive to other players (opt-in is clearly not the magic fix here, or so many wouldn’t be against it). GW1 didn’t have open-world dueling and was better for it. However, it did offer dueling opportunities in guild halls. Why not request guild halls and a similar dueling feature there?

^^ Yeah, funny how the pro-duellers constantly show us why we don’t want it and don’t seem to see it themselfes.

yeah yeah, if you don’t want duels you are a carebear and if you do want duels you’re a troll/griefer/bully. Derogatory names and implicit behaviors have been thrown around a lot in this thread. Responses to an argument isn’t an accurate predictor of in-game behaviors, though.

I haven’t called anyone names but i will not feel bad about calling your argument for what it is—trivial! If you can’t separate your emotions from your argument you have no place in a debate.

Saying custom sPvP is just fine and we should deal with not having duels is trivializing the request for duels, just the same. Not that it makes it right, but i’m not getting my feelings hurt about it, because i see that it is a baseless, uninformed claim.

If the context of the harassment is that big a factor for you, then i will call your claims trivial. If you can tolerate harassment in all other areas of the game, but can’t tolerate harassment in the context of duels, i will call your claim trivial.

come on, till now, I did not agree with you, but you did not resort to cheap rhetorical parlor tricks. This is really beneath you.

Scrambles.2604:

Algreg.3629:

Scrambles.2604:

Algreg.3629:

Scrambles.2604:

It’s like blaming an ATM because someone robbed you when you were pulling out cash. Should we get rid of ATMs because they attract robbers?

cute, a none sequitur in the wild. ATMs are necessary items and hence make it necessary to accept their inherent risks. Dueling is not.

As for that whole harassment debate: Yes, that is not necessarily a dueling thing. But dueling appeals to personality types that are also fond of harassment.

what makes you say that? There is no dueling in GW2 yet there is still harassment. I’ve experienced more harassment running dungeons in GW2 than in any PvP area of the game.

There is no evidence that duels = more harassment. This is just regurgitated forum hear-say. Even if it “seems” that way, correlation doesn’t equal causation and there are always more variables at play.

Someone mentioned harassment in SWTOR earlier, which is a free to play game. Well, if there are no barriers to entry in the game then there is nothing to prevent someone who lives only to harass people to do just that in the game with little worry about repercussions.

That may not be the reason for harassment, but we have just as much evidence that F2P is source of harassment as we do that duels are a source of harassment…aka no evidence, just conventional wisdom.

you will find harassment in all kinds of environment. If anything, that is no reason to add more opportunities, but rather keep them away.

Yes, you got me there, I am a little rascal and did not conduct an empiric research according to accepted sociological standards… you are really saying you have not seen pvp modes appealing to rather unpleasant personalities in your experience? Don´t get me wrong, I like pvp, but at the moment, we, who are familiar with the trash talking, random insults, immature little ragers, are actively choosing to enter these game modes.

Via duel options in pve content, we´d give them a vehicle to engage pve players – and no, a decline option does not solve this. If you are denying that many declined requests will be followed up by harassment und trash talk, you really cannot be from planet earth.

Just because a small subset of MMO players will use whatever they have available to harass, ABSOLUTELY doesn’t mean we should then limit the features we get in the game.

What kind of rational is this? Should Anet stop making LS, because it funnels more players to certain areas, increasing player on player interactions and thus increasing the frequency of occurrences of harassment? Instead, we should add features, but include measures to prevent/reduce the inevitable instances of harassment.

I’m not asking you to empirically sample the entire GW2 population, but i’m also saying a strong argument shouldn’t rely on anecdotes and shallow observations. The majority of prison populations are minorities, so is it safe to assume if your a minority your a criminal? No, absolutely not. There are always multiple variables at play and to single one out and say “this is the reason!” is absurd.

Lastly, you say duels will disturb “PvE” players. Who is a PvE player?? Just because you’re doing PvE content doesn’t mean you also don’t PvP or WvW. Yes, i’m sure there are a lot of strictly PvE players, but in my experience, most players dabble a little in all areas.

edit – Oh, yeah one more thing. Trash talk? You’re worried about trash talk in competitive games? Trash talk has been around as long as competition has existed, before video games. I realize there is a point where trash talk becomes verbal abuse, but that is what ignore/report is for. But if your goal is to eliminate “trash talk” you got a looooooong road ahead of you.

your arguments mostly boil down to A is bad, A is already in game, so even if B can be bad, it does not matter cause A is already there. But A bad and B bad is A+B bad.

If you care to read, no, personally I don´t care about trash talk, I ignore it, block it or report it if it is really offensive. But I play pvp a lot in all kinds of games and am used to the abusive types. And another thing: Pve exactly is not a competitive environment.

Well, a big part of forum complaints consist of stricly pve players feeling “forced” into pvp modes, so I guess there is actually a rather big portion of the player base that only enjoys pve. Personally, I will never understand this as I see myself as a GW2 player and that includes all content, still, pve only seems to be a big thing.

Drakent.9605:

Well pretty much you got 2 group of ppl the one that don’t care about healing and the one that feel that healing isn’t strong enough.

The group that doesn’t care about healing all they been talking about is plain and simple ( healing is fine where it is because we don’t really need it ) But just b/c is not need it doesn’t mean that some of us shouldn’t use it.

Is not like I am asking anet to create a new play style b/c all the tool are all rdy in the game to be a suppor dps/healer the problem is healing tool aren’t as effective as other buffing tools. For example Regeneration is a joke b/c it effect by the person own healing stats instead of the 1 that casted

no, that is not a correct summary of this thread at all. You are ignoring every single reason and explanation – and they were given thoroughly and plentiful – why your approach is wrong. As is your privilege in internet forums – just don´t expect us to take your deliberations serious then.

Sigh, I was considering to listen to your concerns, but the moment I was interested, you played the “next big game x is coming” card…

Scrambles.2604:

Algreg.3629:

Scrambles.2604:

It’s like blaming an ATM because someone robbed you when you were pulling out cash. Should we get rid of ATMs because they attract robbers?

cute, a none sequitur in the wild. ATMs are necessary items and hence make it necessary to accept their inherent risks. Dueling is not.

As for that whole harassment debate: Yes, that is not necessarily a dueling thing. But dueling appeals to personality types that are also fond of harassment.

what makes you say that? There is no dueling in GW2 yet there is still harassment. I’ve experienced more harassment running dungeons in GW2 than in any PvP area of the game.

There is no evidence that duels = more harassment. This is just regurgitated forum hear-say. Even if it “seems” that way, correlation doesn’t equal causation and there are always more variables at play.

Someone mentioned harassment in SWTOR earlier, which is a free to play game. Well, if there are no barriers to entry in the game then there is nothing to prevent someone who lives only to harass people to do just that in the game with little worry about repercussions.

That may not be the reason for harassment, but we have just as much evidence that F2P is source of harassment as we do that duels are a source of harassment…aka no evidence, just conventional wisdom.

you will find harassment in all kinds of environment. If anything, that is no reason to add more opportunities, but rather keep them away.

Yes, you got me there, I am a little rascal and did not conduct an empiric research according to accepted sociological standards… you are really saying you have not seen pvp modes appealing to rather unpleasant personalities in your experience? Don´t get me wrong, I like pvp, but at the moment, we, who are familiar with the trash talking, random insults, immature little ragers, are actively choosing to enter these game modes.

Via duel options in pve content, we´d give them a vehicle to engage pve players – and no, a decline option does not solve this. If you are denying that many declined requests will be followed up by harassment und trash talk, you really cannot be from planet earth.

Jski.6180:

Algreg.3629:

I can assure you I have been playing MMORPG a LOT in the last decade :P And even the bad ones never gave me the feeling of “oh well, why would I do this” like GW2 does recently. Funnily enough, I love sandbox style games, look at Eve, the game does not tell you what to do at all, PvE barely exists, still, you can find what you enjoy and a reason to do it.

Only a few mainly GW2 and FF11. Ff11 was a super grind game just to get max level with quest after the first level 50 to get to level 60? etc..

I find sandbox style games gets a free pass most often they can be bad very bad with lots of glitches etc.. but often just because of the type of game being sandbox like makes ppl rave over it.

EvE: I watched a steam of that game i still have no ideal what going on other then ppl flying in spaces and i often hear its a spreadsheet game.

For me i like action combat games with combos. FF11 had skillchans and magic burst it was a lot of team work and a great feeling when it worked well. That why i like GW2 because of combo fields and finisher what i feel that GW2 needs is more fields and finisher types lets expand this type of team work play.

lol, yeah, there are quite a lot of “sandbox” games that are more or less like “well, here is your character, then we have this map here, soooo… enjoy” :P I´d say we are not that far apart. I like the action combat part too. But it feels like it has just not arrived where it wants to be. I´d enjoy a mix of the best of GW2 and TERA (minus the motley crew patchwork anime crap world and style plus the thousands of weirdos such a scenario draws in) combat. I still think GW2 is very important for the genre and hope later games will go the whole way.

Jski.6180:

Algreg.3629:

Jski.6180:

A lot of what GW2 is missing is plan out as such and would take more vertical progression to fill in what GW2 is missing say vs a game like WoW. “End game” to most ppl is about getting better loot and gear that the ideal behind raids you get gear up for the raids to get better gear from the raids to do higher level raids that gives you even better gear etc… GW2 not about vertical progression on that scale and more then likely you will see small amounts of it but nothing that is “needed” to do the next level.

This is just the blunt truth about mmorpgs and even just stander rpg online or not its all about the loot grind if you have no real will to progress the story line and that the cool thing about GW2 the story line is being progressed (LS) over added in a new set of gear ever 6 months (what you see in WoW and WoW like games.) So more then likely games with raids are going to have gear progression to get to the next raid etc.. and beyond the starter story or “box story” (story you get from buying the game or exposition) your not going to get that much but you will get an endless progression of gear that you need to progress to the next set of gear.

but sadly it seems such a system is necessary for long term enjoyment. Grind does not have to be grindy, if you excuse that paradox for a moment. You can place items behind challenging content with only a little bit of RNG for example. The one special thing about MMORPG: They don´t have an ending. So sooner or later you outrun new things to experience. GW2´s premises sounded nice on paper, but the longer I play, the more I miss incentives to do anything. And I still missing a few things. But I just cannot bother. Play because its fun simply does not cut it for an MMORPG in my opinion. These games are usually inferior to other games from a gameplay and lore/storytelling point of view. I am really at a loss just now. I like the game in theory, but it even takes some overcoming to log in, take 15 minutes for daily, and then go to Darksouls, Warframe or whatever else currently is in my gaming systems.

How to put it all work is going to be seen as grind and if you do not like it then its going to be called out for being grindly its not important how hard or how easy it is.

RNG is needed to give an item worth beyond what on it each person must feel as if they got something worth there time and if its just handed out at the end of an event the worth of the item is less then if it was an rare drop.

If your playing GW2 for loot only you maybe wasting your time and GW2 is made to be played with other games. So its not a bad thing that your doing it that way and really should not be looked as if its bad GW2 is such that you can play it in such a way.

The games you named are not mmorpgs so maybe your not really into mmorpgs. Its easy to get cough up in hype of a game mmorpgs are very good at doing this trying to get non mmorpgs players into there game but often mmorpgs are nothing like a single player game even if that game has some team play.

I can assure you I have been playing MMORPG a LOT in the last decade :P And even the bad ones never gave me the feeling of “oh well, why would I do this” like GW2 does recently. Funnily enough, I love sandbox style games, look at Eve, the game does not tell you what to do at all, PvE barely exists, still, you can find what you enjoy and a reason to do it.

Jski.6180:

A lot of what GW2 is missing is plan out as such and would take more vertical progression to fill in what GW2 is missing say vs a game like WoW. “End game” to most ppl is about getting better loot and gear that the ideal behind raids you get gear up for the raids to get better gear from the raids to do higher level raids that gives you even better gear etc… GW2 not about vertical progression on that scale and more then likely you will see small amounts of it but nothing that is “needed” to do the next level.

This is just the blunt truth about mmorpgs and even just stander rpg online or not its all about the loot grind if you have no real will to progress the story line and that the cool thing about GW2 the story line is being progressed (LS) over added in a new set of gear ever 6 months (what you see in WoW and WoW like games.) So more then likely games with raids are going to have gear progression to get to the next raid etc.. and beyond the starter story or “box story” (story you get from buying the game or exposition) your not going to get that much but you will get an endless progression of gear that you need to progress to the next set of gear.

but sadly it seems such a system is necessary for long term enjoyment. Grind does not have to be grindy, if you excuse that paradox for a moment. You can place items behind challenging content with only a little bit of RNG for example. The one special thing about MMORPG: They don´t have an ending. So sooner or later you outrun new things to experience. Or things you want to experience. GW2´s premises sounded nice on paper, but the longer I play, the more I miss incentives to do anything. And I still have not done everything. But I just cannot bother. Play because it´s fun simply does not cut it for an MMORPG in my opinion. These games are usually inferior to other games from a gameplay and lore/storytelling point of view. I am really at a loss just now. I like the game in theory, but it even takes some overcoming to log in, take 15 minutes for daily, and then go to Darksouls, Warframe or whatever else currently is in my gaming systems.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Useless skills were purposefully designed to trick us into thinking that players could do anything else other than DPS or throw might/ reflects/ blocks at melee range to the party. But oh my god, those useless skills must NEVER become useful.

there are barely completely useless skills and your thesis is completely childish. Yes, that was Anets plan to lead us all astray – really???

DiogoSilva.7089:

That’s the idea I’m getting from the people who are justifying those useless skills so that the dreaded trinity does not exists!

a system where another player can outheal your incoming damage leads inevitably to the boring trinity setup.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Or else, this totally-not-primitive dps dominance comes at the risk of being replaced by build diversity! Oh, god, the horror!

build diversity exists, dps + something else. Support abilities are not necessarily tied to trait points.

DiogoSilva.7089:

GW2 is a good game at many things. But it is not at everything. This game’s PvE balance and pve design are looked upon as awful by the mmo community, and no, it’s not because those players are “stuck” to a single mentality. A mmo can certainly have good, challenging, balanced pve content without a trinity. GW2, however, isn’t that mmo yet.

yes, but looked down upon for other reasons. And yes, exactly because those players are “stuck”.

Scrambles.2604:

It’s like blaming an ATM because someone robbed you when you were pulling out cash. Should we get rid of ATMs because they attract robbers?

cute, a none sequitur in the wild. ATMs are necessary items and hence make it necessary to accept their inherent risks. Dueling is not.

As for that whole harassment debate: Yes, that is not necessarily a dueling thing. But dueling appeals to personality types that are also fond of harassment.

Lord Trejgon.2809:

and what would that give actually?
seen much folks that just ignored defeated player lying nearby and passed through…. :/

only when it comes to corpse-leechers ruining events. And rightfully so. I have not seen people ignoring defeated players outside of mass battles a single time.

GW2 offers quite a lot in the what to do area, but is heavily lacking in the why section. I really miss the why part.

not broken at all, it is a design decision and a very good one.

Valento.9852:

How about you haters back off from this SUGGESTION thread?

How about not? And bringing discussions to the metaplane is really an old trick by now. And anyway, scheduling is wrong, today is “wherez dualing?” day. Mounts are more mid-weekish, followed by trinity friday.

Galtrix.7369:

Everyone, except a few people like you and I, are oblivious to the crappy controls and response time of skills and such.

The few things people need today to feel like belonging to some self-imagined elite…

I have been in PUG maps that succeeded. Don´t tone down the difficulty. 80 percent of GW2 players are probably on the skill level of QD train, it does not matter. Rather have 2 bosses that are rarely completed, there are enough easy things for people to do. Yes, it is frustrating with all these “but I have a job!” casual self-apologists ruining it with their afk-corpsing, manning turrets without having any clue and ability/willingness to read the darn skill description etc. But if this determines the bar, we could as well tone down the whole game to shatterer level so everyone can feel special and wonderful.

as mentioned, the way they are used in that other game is like a focus for spellcasting. Which we have already, I think we even have some skins resembling discs (not completely sure about that). Also, I´d tone down on the other game references, we get the point and prominent promo for a competitor will likely lead to this thread being closed.

reasonable solution: more variety in aquiring the new traits or at least move them to another boss.
probable anet solution: remove all loot from Spark kills.

well, there is our endgame… :P

Aniltiger.9186:

Nerfing Zerker won’t solve the problem. What the developers should do is to make support more attractive in groups. Basicly, if you got a supporter in your group, you’ll do more damage. And if you would have another type of supporter, then you will take less health damage etc.
That is one of the reasons why Mesmers felt some hope when Power Block (10 sec CD on interrupt trait) was bugged so it could go trough defiance. They suddenly had an active CC role that would be very attractive in dungeons.

That is was players want. Not nerfs on the most popular playstyle.

that is simply a wrong perception. Support is attractive for groups and support is used a lot by good players, and there is build diversity. There just is no gear diversity. A guardian or whatever can be in full zerker gear and still support, as can every class. I am really not a big fan of the berzerker gear tyranny, but saying there is no build diversity or use of support skills in this game could not be further from the truth.

the only thing that will fix zerker, if you like to call it that, is an adjustment of DR (which anet is quite fond of everywhere else in the game). The zerker stats give an incredible return of investment and synergize extremely well with each other. Take a look at the healing stat for example which scales so bad it is not worth investing a single point. Reevaluation of all stat scaling, reducing monster HP, done. But I guess they fear the backlash quite a bit.

yeah, yeah, easily manipulated, of cause wrong, just like the close to 2 years xfire top ten. Why aren´t you guys just be honest and instead of all “your game is dying”/“will die because of game x” Mickey Mouse posts and threads, just write what you really want to say: “I want to see GW2 fail because I feel some imagined slight and would take a grim satisfaction out of it”. Or open that thread, so all of you can join and we have a nice contained zone for you.

I have no idea what strange reason could possibly bring someone to voice this demand. No.

the game has different game mechanics, so it is not very helpful to reintroduce things from GW1 mechanics. Thieves are the assassin class, probably should have been named more aptly (can´t say I have ever seen a thief in game steal anything, lots of stabby stabby though). As for the rest of your ideas, I sure would like to see some minor form of character progression too, but I guess anet cannot do it because of the “I have a job and feel left behind” crowd (newsflash: most “hardcore” players have jobs too). Beside the balance problems, they seem to have a VERY hard time working with the things they have now.

Anet is caught in their “casual player inclusion” trap they set up themselves. They cannot introduce hard content with worthwhile rewards because that would exclude casuals and lead to even more whining. All they could give is hard content with the usual meagre rewards they are infamous for, which would be more or less ignored after a few runs.

everyone playing online games in central to western Europe not able to understand the rather basic English used in and around video games should stop wasting his time playing and go back to school.

laokoko.7403:

Algreg.3629:

laokoko.7403:

I dont’ understand why the game suddenly become fun at lvl80.

Most of the people are just farming for whatever at lvl80 anyway. Which is exactly the samething people do before they are lvl80.

at max level, you work on permanent(ish) things like final build and equipment. Before, you don´t bother too much.

you mean like farming legendary? ya that’s exactly what I’m talking about.

I talked to my friend about this. Apparently he think I’m out of my mind for doing map completion or personal story. Because apparently that is more boring than farming cof path 1 1000 times.

lord, no! what about starting with combining your traits to a build you think will do well and get a full exotic and/or ascended set first? Personally, I will not care about some aesthetics only item (legendary pretty much is that, the change stats on the fly -thing really isn´t that useful in GW2 PvE theorycrafting) until some precursor I like will drop (guess that will be never).

laokoko.7403:

I dont’ understand why the game suddenly become fun at lvl80.

Most of the people are just farming for whatever at lvl80 anyway. Which is exactly the samething people do before they are lvl80.

at max level, you work on permanent(ish) things like final build and equipment. Before, you don´t bother too much.

Halcyon.7352:

Algreg.3629:

and before they occupied slots on the various server map instances. So, the difference is, apart from another opportunity to bash the megaserver concept, exactly what again?

For one, they take up valid spots on a limited copy of the zone. That means less people ending up where they should be, and more chances of being in a less deseriable copy, with either less people you know, and/or different nodes and different events going on. Could well have missed whatever events you zoned in for, even.

well, yes, just like before, I still see the problem, I still don´t see what that has to do with the megaserver.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Algreg.3629:

Junkpile.7439:

I have full knight. Haven’t notice any difference.

I hope this irony.

It’s the truth. Anyone who runs a build that does not rely on critical damage, yes critical damage, not critical hits, is entirely unaffected.

errm, like, “yes”? Of cause a set that never featured crit damage would be unaffected, hence the weirdness of this post?

and before they occupied slots on the various server map instances. So, the difference is, apart from another opportunity to bash the megaserver concept, exactly what again?

cool idea, but I´d advise against it. Our PC world has become so incredibly touchy, you would see mass outcries over the slightest imagined “stereotyping” of this and that (of cause never about bad white western “imperialist” culture).

Leveling in GW2 isnt fun.
- says you

It was a downer before. but now there is little reward for leveling.
- says you, and rewards are like… well, levels

Nothing improved for the lower levels, yet you say you dont want people rushing to level.
- nothing much changed either, traits barely mattered before you started to patch together your final build near max

Why should I take my time leveling in your detailed world if its painful to level?
- a question only you can answer for yourself, and the feeling is yours, not necessarily true for other people

Junkpile.7439:

I have full knight. Haven’t notice any difference.

I hope this irony.

Diabetus.9874:

They have devices which can re-enact ancient rituals and giant laser beams that shoot ancient dragons, but omg detecting stealthed enemies is completely baffling.

You realize though that this is a matter of balancing game mechanics, not a problem of lore?

(not that I am in favor of current stealth mechanics).

Devata.6589:

I always find the whole P2W discussion interesting to see. Especially how people define P2W. It seems to be that they define it as ‘Pay2 Kill’ what might make sense in a FPS but not so much in a MMORPG game. Everybody plays a game RPG game different and for one person his goal might be kills but for another it’s the best looking outfit or a full collection of mini’s. So reaching that is there equivalent of winning.

Also the whole “you can buy gems so it’s never p2w or a cash-shop” is a little strage is in many real obvious P2W games there are also ingame methods to get the item. It just takes a lot longer and is more boring.. you know, like having to grind gold? Besides GW2 has all those temporary available stuff that a normal person can never grind all gold for.

But for me the question you should ask yourself is not ’ is it pay to win’ but ‘does it effect the game’. Then people tent to say mini’s don’t effect the game (going back to there P2W definition as P2Kill) what is funny to me in a MMO Role Playing Game. As having or collecting a mini is very much part of a role playing game. Even changing your haircut is.

Now if you take those elements effectively out of the game-play our make them obsolete by also giving a short-cut because you offer such items or services in a cash-shop you are effecting the game because you take PvE content out or make it trivial.

That is the whole problem with cash-shops and PvE games. Why it might work so well (at least in the short run) from a commercial viewpoint but is so bad for the game itself. There is almost nothing you can put I there that does not effect the game (that’s also why people are more likely to buy it). A name-changer, a race changer a sex changer and a total make-over kit. Maybe extra char slots (if enough are provided from the beginning) but that’s about it.

That is also why I was interested in GW2. A B2P game, and looking at how they where truly B2P at least until they shifted focus to GW2. Generating money with expansion-sales. Sadly the shifted to cash-shop focus in stead of expansion-based income.

Cash shops could work. Lets say we have a F2P (likely a not serious one) and you sell outfits that don’t give any benefit, not in stats, not in concealment. Then you don’t effect the actual game-play of the game (killing each other (likely why people define P2W as P2Kill)) and so it’s fine. However this is a MMORPG and much more elements effect the game-play including skins. For many skins (and related) are even more important then stats.

P2W is what a particular complainer is unable or unwilling to afford usually and what others are able to afford.