I agree, if you can’t hold the ruins you shouldn’t hold the buff.
Making it so you can lock the buff in is a terrible idea and not nearly as competition minded as making it a buff you can easily strip away if you are careless.
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No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.
Disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff? That is so laughable. The value retains its worth regardless anyone uses it or not. The value of someone’s experience can be tied to the presence of that buff and if the player makes a value judgement that they would enjoy playing without then they should the option.
The players use of a buff doesn’t effect the buff’s value to a server. For the same reason above.
The only way removing the buff by choice would invalidate the point is in that you want players to be knowingly at a loss fighting their buffed opponents and have to struggle to overcome it. This contrasts with the sense of honor some pvpers have and that you would force them to be unable to play as they want when it comes to something so SIMPLE as this is disgusting.
Get it together guys.
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Said by devon when people suggested to make the buff a toggle and the entire thread got spammed with approval:
“No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.”
This guy is beyond reasoning
I agree. He could have said that the functionality isn’t in the game at the moment and that would be one thing. His excuse for why you would not be able to remove the buff was terrible.
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I have said it before and it clearly bears repeating, our focus is on making improvements to WvW as a game type. When we implement changes it is with that goal in mind. We are aware of the GvG scene and we think it is really impressive, but the effects of any of our changes on GvG as it currently exists are not a priority for us. As such, when changes do come in, like the new map, some of them will be a positive for the GvG crowd and some will not. However, none of the changes we make are intended to stamp out GvG nor are they intended to make GvG more popular. When/if we focus our attention on GvG we will do our utmost to make it a game type that fits the needs of as many people as possible. That time is not now.
We are focused on WvW right now and improving it. Please try not to conflate our decisions in regards to WvW as some sort of judgement or endorsement of GvG in any form.
Dear Devon,
I actually do like the changes to the borderlands in regards ro removing the lake and adding more points of contention to fight over. It looks fun. But if we could get a toggle feature on the orb buffs that allows us to choose whether we want to have the buff up or not, it would resolve these issues and allow people to seek out duels and other organized fights still.
What that would do is create inconsistency between players If I see an invader from the server that holds a buff I am going to assume he has the buff when in fact he might not. Yes, I can see the buff presumably by directly targeting but that will involve me having to get close enough to do so.
Here is a suggestion that they might be bit more receptive to a WvW trap that strips the buff from anyone that triggers it, say for 30 minutes (preferably with more than a single trigger per trap, say 5 or 10, I have never used WvW traps so dunno how they actually work)-
Yes it is high maintenance by comparison, but it is also little less GvG specific (hence them being more receptive at this point in time), and it would still give you 30 minutes of level playing field assuming everyone plays nice. You might need to introduce some sort of half time system if they decide to go this route, but hey being able to organize GvG in (mechanically) hostile enviroment I am sure you could pull this off too.
Granted I can’t say I am an expert on balance so this suggestion might create problems in other areas, however, the point I am making is I guess rather than introduce very focus group type option and create strange inconsistencies introduce a legit mechanic for the opposing side to combat the buff on a smaller scale (ie. rather than having to remove buff from all three maps by using the cap point allow neutralizing on case by case basis so to speak for a short time).
Why not add a small extra map, with no objectives, larger queue size, and copied terrain from the BLs that can serve as a training ground? Each server has a spawn area with preplaced siege, camp set ups, lord’s rooms, and mini towers where they can practice siege abilities and assaulting lords. Outside of spawn is a field for open roaming and fighting. The buff doesn’t carry over to the map, the map could serve as a place for new players to get their feet wet and be taught, and a place where GvG and solo roamers could frolic.
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I have said it before and it clearly bears repeating, our focus is on making improvements to WvW as a game type. When we implement changes it is with that goal in mind. We are aware of the GvG scene and we think it is really impressive, but the effects of any of our changes on GvG as it currently exists are not a priority for us. As such, when changes do come in, like the new map, some of them will be a positive for the GvG crowd and some will not. However, none of the changes we make are intended to stamp out GvG nor are they intended to make GvG more popular. When/if we focus our attention on GvG we will do our utmost to make it a game type that fits the needs of as many people as possible. That time is not now.
We are focused on WvW right now and improving it. Please try not to conflate our decisions in regards to WvW as some sort of judgement or endorsement of GvG in any form.
So we both know how stubborn you are. We know it from this forum, we know it from that “other” place that you blatantly disregard any feedback given and you once again come out of the ignorance cave you quite blatantly live in to shock us once again.
Let me make it quite clear for you, since my last post was so easily missed. Your changes are NOT making WvW more entertaining, nor is it making it more fun. All the changes that have been done in WvW (minus culling) have done nothing but turn it into a casual mess where people run around in a single zerg ball. Now the groups that dont do this are groups that pride themselves on competetive fighting and showing how strong that can be when not having to resort to the whole zerg meta – You are basically giving the two fingers to these people, the people who are attempting to be good at your WvW game. You are actually giving the zerg meta more of an ability to influence and essentially turning WvW into the largest blob wins…
Hopefully you can understand this and remove the whole WvW vs GvG thing since most GvG guilds are WvWers and they play the WvW game far more than most…
Opinion of a GvGer.
No, it’s the opinion of a WvWer like anyone else. VotF, like every other GvG guild, raids in WvW more often than they GvG. People who keep breaking it into “GvG vs WvW” are ignorant of what these guilds do. If anything, it’s “pugs vs Guilds” because I’ve never heard of any of the guilds in the signatures of those who oppose GvG.
Because a guild that doesn’t fit into your radical like pocket of influence is not a true guild? This is why the WvW community is splitting; this is why there are such nasty responses to GvG enthusiasts. Just because my guild doesn’t sit at the windmill and arm-chair command the actions of other guilds as we spazz all over 20 people from an opposing server does not make us any less of a guild nor any poorer of players.
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Lzay I did not claim we are bigger than the wvw population, Im sayign we are a big part of it and the hardcore part of it. If they wish to push us into the ground then thats their decision but they shouldnt do it the way they do it now as its unprofessional and insanely rude towards their customers.
Everyone can agree that the altar system is a good idea, however everyone also agrees that the stat buff should not be implemented for various reasons.
Anet not listening to their playerbase is a bigger concern than this buff in general.
GvG players are a big victim of this on top of problems it would already cause and that is the point that is made.
Insulting GvG or arguing about how big or skilled it is should not be included in that discussion
@cimon, enjoy your 24 empty servers with 3 stacked servers blobbing the world
Because you can’t play for ppt and be hardcore?
And no, not everyone agrees that an orb mechanic should not have a stat buff. The buff has to be worthwhile, stats ensure that. We can argue how much of a stat buff it should be, but there are those who think a stat buff is not a bad thing.
That is part of the problem with the GvG community, they stomp around and act like they represent the entirety of WvW and that unless they get everything on their list of demands then there will be no WvW.
Also, the GvG community has been inviting resentment towards itself with how it treats not only Dev livestreams but discussions counter to their positions in general.
You know me Asudem. I know all about that PPT game and was more hardcore about it than most did on TC but I can tell you that stat buff is in no way a positive addition to the game for WvWers or GvG-ers alike. Areanent with their subsequent changes has moved the game to support larger and larger blobs. WXP, then siege being tradeable and now these stat buffs.
The orb bonuses should not have been stat buffs all also should not spread across the whole wvw population. They should have made it so it had buffs such as quicker upgrades, more supply per dolyak. Things that directly add to defense and PPT rather than stats that help blobs and servers with superior coverage. They made a big mistake here again.
Secondly, GvG is very much an active and large part of WvW; however, I agree that ANET needs to separate GvG from WvW but they actually need to come out and say something on the subject or they are going to see a drastic drop in organized wvw population. This doesnt change the fact that arenanet has been kittenting on normal WvW from their patches in the last 6 or so months as well. Orbageddon sucks for us GvG-ers yeah but its equally bad for WvW-ers and PPT players.
The orb mechanic has to have meaningful impact on how WvW is played. I think stat buffs are the most straightforward means of doing this without HAVING TO snuff out all playability. The stat buffs need to be impactful, not overpowered. I wouldn’t mind the buffs not giving stats but unless Anet can devise a way to have the buff effect the gameplay in a meaningful way, which they seem woefully incapable of doing thus why they fell back on a stat buff, the orb mechanic may as well not exist.
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While I do agree SoR blobs much harder due to their coverage and numbers, don’t kid yourselves and think you can beat SoR with equal numbers.
But we did in SOSBL, just ask [Hel].
Why not try picking on TW?
TW runs crazy numbers. You’d be hard pressed to find any TC guild that can match that and have an even fight with them.
In fact, I would like to see TW split itself in half this matchup. I think they are good enough to get away with it and god knows it would be good for my lagg :P
TW runs 20-25 TOPS and has militia with them. CERN runs crazy numbers. Do you know how to count mate? Maybe a GvG from any TC guild with TW would be interesting.. <3
Throwing out 20-25 doesn’t make it true, they had more than that last night- i know, i was there having to track there movement from time to time
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TC please try to double team SoR on all borderlands or this week will be dull. We all know you have more numbers then SoS so you will finish second. Just hit SoR we will help and lets have good fights. Everyone knows the outcome of the match but atleast we can make the fights unpredictable.
I think TC would have a chance at winning if they play a disciplined double team.
SoS has been attacking TC holding so please don’t act like any sort of effort against SoR depends solely on TC
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This is not a solution for GvG, this is a bandaid. I think it is a fine feature to cool the whining going on but they need to divorce WvW and GvG completely as the communities identifiable to either are becoming intolerable.
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Lzay I did not claim we are bigger than the wvw population, Im sayign we are a big part of it and the hardcore part of it. If they wish to push us into the ground then thats their decision but they shouldnt do it the way they do it now as its unprofessional and insanely rude towards their customers.
Everyone can agree that the altar system is a good idea, however everyone also agrees that the stat buff should not be implemented for various reasons.
Anet not listening to their playerbase is a bigger concern than this buff in general.
GvG players are a big victim of this on top of problems it would already cause and that is the point that is made.
Insulting GvG or arguing about how big or skilled it is should not be included in that discussion
@cimon, enjoy your 24 empty servers with 3 stacked servers blobbing the world
Because you can’t play for ppt and be hardcore?
And no, not everyone agrees that an orb mechanic should not have a stat buff. The buff has to be worthwhile, stats ensure that. We can argue how much of a stat buff it should be, but there are those who think a stat buff is not a bad thing.
That is part of the problem with the GvG community, they stomp around and act like they represent the entirety of WvW and that unless they get everything on their list of demands then there will be no WvW.
Also, the GvG community has been inviting resentment towards itself with how it treats not only Dev livestreams but discussions counter to their positions in general.
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Stop with the drama, no need for it, apart from the bit of emote spamming it’s been decent in-game.
TC at least can put the numbers up at times to get a zerg going, they just need a lot more training and better organisation to fight against a well battle oiled SoR.
You could do with more better WvW geared/traited players too and a LOT more situational awareness – don’t just stand there and let us cream right through or into you, it feels so bad
Hopefully you’ve some decent commanders willing to step up and if you do, listen to them and follow them.
Loving the opportunities for some smaller fights and 1v1’s. You’ve a lot of roamers running around on their own on TC O.o
I dunno why SoS were thrown in with us though, it seems very unfair on them. Not taking anything away from their players by saying that, it’s just fairly clear they don’t have enough interested WvW players on their server.
This post is exemplary of why SoR is known for being condescending.
Hate to break it to you but TC does it to other servers as well so you’re not really in a position to complain about it.
Stop with the drama, no need for it, apart from the bit of emote spamming it’s been decent in-game.
TC at least can put the numbers up at times to get a zerg going, they just need a lot more training and better organisation to fight against a well battle oiled SoR.
You could do with more better WvW geared/traited players too and a LOT more situational awareness – don’t just stand there and let us cream right through or into you, it feels so bad
Hopefully you’ve some decent commanders willing to step up and if you do, listen to them and follow them.
Loving the opportunities for some smaller fights and 1v1’s. You’ve a lot of roamers running around on their own on TC O.o
I dunno why SoS were thrown in with us though, it seems very unfair on them. Not taking anything away from their players by saying that, it’s just fairly clear they don’t have enough interested WvW players on their server.
This post is exemplary of why SoR is known for being condescending.
Hate to break it to you but TC does it to other servers as well so you’re not really in a position to complain about it.
Not to the degree SoR does; don’t kid yourself.
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The above posters seem to be ignorant as hell, these GvG guilds are also 70% of the roaming guilds.
These guilds DO NOT WANT stat boosts on the points they are capuring.
The difference in the minds of a lot of players is that “WvW” guilds are different form “GvG” guilds. This is often because GvG guilds only support changes that cater to GvG and constantly lash out and give a bad image for the WvW community at large. And don’t forget the snobby, isolationist attitudes held by a lot of GvG obsessed players. GvG players in general wanted to be different from the rest of their server and now they are, whether that is a good thing or not can be argued.
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A word of advice. If you really do care about getting GvG arenas and support you shouldn’t be like “well i think this is a good idea but whatever cause i am already leaving for X next big flop in the MMO market, kthxbai”
If you think threatening by saying i need support or i’ll leave is a good idea fine, but don’t let your words come across as jaded and indifferent to everything Anet does.
THIS IS JUST ADVICE, NOT A CRITIQUE OF ANYONE
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Stop with the drama, no need for it, apart from the bit of emote spamming it’s been decent in-game.
TC at least can put the numbers up at times to get a zerg going, they just need a lot more training and better organisation to fight against a well battle oiled SoR.
You could do with more better WvW geared/traited players too and a LOT more situational awareness – don’t just stand there and let us cream right through or into you, it feels so bad
Hopefully you’ve some decent commanders willing to step up and if you do, listen to them and follow them.
Loving the opportunities for some smaller fights and 1v1’s. You’ve a lot of roamers running around on their own on TC O.o
I dunno why SoS were thrown in with us though, it seems very unfair on them. Not taking anything away from their players by saying that, it’s just fairly clear they don’t have enough interested WvW players on their server.
This post is exemplary of why SoR is known for being condescending.
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Humble as in “lol we just wiped the 10 of you with 150 of us and still lost half our group and cover up our shriveling kitten we have to spam emote because that’s all we can do” or humble as in “Lol we’ve been wiping to half our numbers all night let’s spam emote once we can just overwhelm them 10v1” both seem to be plausible trains of thought for the average SoR player though. . .
OO look a tc posters, posting the same BUllkitten they been telling other servers to stop posting. OOO the irony
Apparently SoR fields the same #s as TC, amazing! tell me more SykkoB
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I imagine some groups will drop rams as they buff to give iron will, i think that in order to use iron will you must do damage to a gate with a ram to “charge up” the skill.
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For those of us that truly love the game type that is WvW we just have to keep offering good feedback and make the community voice immutable.
I think this update is proof that the community’s voice means nothing to anet.
There is no other good way to keep playing WvW and drive it towards a quality product. We can boycott but then we sacrifice all of our enjoyment for a similarly marginal chance at getting what we desire. The problem is Anet is seeing #s they like so they aren’t changing course. If we proves ourselves persuasive we will be able to get the QoL changes we need and the #s Anet lusts for.
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Kills the only good game mode in this joke GW2 has become.
GvG deathmatch.
PvP conquest mode with limited stats from amulet is the lowest skill cap I have ever seen in a MMO.
WvW zergers dont need stat boost they would be better served with WXP or Karma boosts
+9000
I think they should scrap the stat boost and give a ppt boost to whoever has the buff so the zergers will be happy.
more needs to be done to let groups of all organization levels effect WvW in ways. Zerging should not be the primary concern as it is well-establish. I believe the new orb mechanic allows more input from smaller groups. Also ppt boost is built into the buff, but it is not a huge incentive for a lot of WvW players and would likely not be sufficient to make the player in the BLs more competitive.
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Perhaps, if we could get the reason behind why account-wide ranking is a problem, it could make the pill easier to swallow. Right now, I just do not understand why this is an issue for Anet. It does not really make any sense.
Devon?
It, as other WvW achievements, is to encourage absurdly long term play in place fo having to drive participation with continuing content. There is no other way to interpret it that makes as much sense.
The thing it the cap is 10k ranks, it doesn’t need to be character bound to fit their goals.
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The driving force behind WvW zergy crap is loot/karma. Make the buff give MF% and Karma % as well as points per stake.
I disagree with your proposed change. The buff needs to matter in order to make the play involving it truly competitive and meaningful. If holding all of the objectives opened up a rewarding map for players to farm in, say for WvW exp or items, that would be a fix. But as it is more likely that the buff will remain in some slight variation of its current state i think the more agreeable solution is to monitor the buff and tone it down as to have it offer an advantage but not break gameplay, if it indeed does break play to an extent.
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The response to the bloodlust buff has been largely negative thus far, at least as far as the vocal are concerned, but this is not because the idea is a bad one- the implementation has fallen short.
Competitive WvW that is accessible is the goal of the WvW community at large. The bloodlust buff brings competition but at the cost of showing possible favor to larger servers. Population = powerful is an idea not many support except in cases where population offers only a marginal advantage.
The principle concern with the bloodlust buff is the stat buff. I think the buff giving stats is vital to its success. I will argue though that the amount of each stat is likely far far too high. 50 per map for a total of 150 is absurd in my opinion as it offers such a disparity in stats that it will ruin play at all levels of organization.
As this update enters the game the buff needs to be very very closely monitored as to ascertain how it effects the WvW environment. IF, as i suspect, it offers to great of a power advantage it needs to be hot-fixed IMMEDIATELY.
You’re so close with what you do ANET. A lot of your ideas are so close to be great so please go the extra leap to making them great through proper implementation.
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How is that different from what hardcore GvG enthusiasts do already?
We have WvW raids every day for 4~ hours…so do most GvG guilds.
Really? Odd i don’t see most of our GvG guilds doing daily 4 hour raids, maybe they didn’t get the memo.
Odd, maybe its because we do it tagless and dont invite poor attitudes. Get off this thread with your negative attitude, please.
I’m so sorry the hardcore GvG players just get me riled up with their attitudes. I do support your preferred play, but i find it disheartening that so many in the GvG crowd seem to denounce mine.
I will say it again. WvW and GvG need a seperation- for a lot of reasons. GvG could find a good home as a form of spvp given that more build diversity through stat allocation is allowed.
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I think exclusive skins would be awesome, hell tie them to certain ranks of WvW exp if you have to- just something to show the world what kind of player i am beyond me having to declare it.
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Character bound WvW xp has discouraged me from playing my alts in favor of adding utility to my most player WvW profession. I would like to play more professions in WvW, but i feel obligated to progress one toon as to best assist my guild and server. Nothing is lsot with making WvW exp account bound- especially since the cakitten o high.
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And again, a NECRO issue. They get their undodgeable abilities, because Marks fire of instantly without any warning. And Doom is instant aswell.
Getting kinda sick of these “examples” where conditions are oooh so overpowered, and then its always a necro that does it.
Necro needs toning down, not conditions. Stop trying to nerf every single condition build, including the really kitten ones, just because 1 profession has a build that is a bit out of whack. By comparison, there is 1 condition build you do not want to run into roaming.
Necro, condi grenade engineer and pack mesmers… even condi warriors are proving tough to manage. Never seen so much torment, fear, poison, bleed, confusion, etc applied so quickly since the game started and from more than necros.
I am not agreeing with the OP, but the current change in build designs is pushing out anything without a lot of CR and vit which in some cases is entire classes.
Well there are several direct-damage builds that will kitten you up if you run into them while roaming. Direct-damage builds are overall a much bigger issue in WvW then Conditions.
Sorry nope. Thieves… they have to glass and get close to do big damage. Warriors… yep pain in the rear right now but they still have to close and get in your face to dish it out. I cannot really think of a 3rd direct DPS driven class. Current condi builds from several classes played by a decent player are tough to crack.
A Thief CnD’s and then backstabs for 10k+ easily in a second, so does this mean we should nerf all the direct damage, even on kittenty builds?
If someone can show me the math for this, I would appreciate it. For a 10k hit from a total glass thief with a perfect strike (as in it crits with a high crit dmg multiplier, full bloodlust, guard killer stacks, damage sigil, etc) the target would have to have an armor rating south of 1700. Seems like people keep doubling BS damage every time they talk about it.
To be fair on the backstab comment it is possible as i have pulled it off, but i was full glass, buffed to the max, and ran a very heavy damage traiting to pull it off. Even then it doesn’t happen against properly geared opponents. Easy to do on up-levels though.
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Why are people running stack weapons in GvG’s?…… Scrubs
Isn’t it like an unwritten rule that you’re not supposed to do that?
Pretty much, but personally i have never been bothered by the notion cause i consider it along the lines of food and oil/stone/crystal. I often encourage ppl pick up a cheap weapon to throw a major stack sigil on to buff up their stats as we do things that don’t involve combat with the enemy. The hatred towards them has been growing though and not many are willing to put up with the trouble. /shrug
What does that have to do with GvG? o_o You’re not supposed to do it in GvG because it’s supposed to be about equal footing and stack sigils create a small snowball effect over time. Though it also makes me sad that they plan to make it so if you remove a stack sigil weapon, you lose all of your stacks.
Oh, i was relating this to GvG because it is a preparation, and i consider preparations such as crystals, sigils, food, etc. fair game- but my sentiment is not shared with many and you depend on consensus for GvGs.
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Why are people running stack weapons in GvG’s?…… Scrubs
Isn’t it like an unwritten rule that you’re not supposed to do that?
Pretty much, but personally i have never been bothered by the notion cause i consider it along the lines of food and oil/stone/crystal. I often encourage ppl pick up a cheap weapon to throw a major stack sigil on to buff up their stats as we do things that don’t involve combat with the enemy. The hatred towards them has been growing though and not many are willing to put up with the trouble. /shrug
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Anyone seen the cost of crafting one kitten ascended weapons? 200 Gold in total to reach 500 and craft one weapon. Subsequent weapons cost 50 g each. WvW players are completely shafted. Either give players bags of coins for each player kill or increase rewards for taking over areas or drop more heavy loot bags. This is getting out of hand.
You and people like you are the reason we are on this treadmill. Why aren’t you asking for new and better content instead of better gear and more loot??
Cause reward disparities that persist in new content diminish it significantly?
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So far the zergs on Mag BL are far less blobby than usual. Sorry about the randoms during those switchback fights, RET and MU. The commander leading the pubbies WPed and the pubbies didn’t, so we had a few adds. Thankfully, most of them wiped on RET’s initial push, but there were still several following us around.
Oh look a guild that doesn’t play nice with others, what an asset to a community. I must say i thought all the guilds with hyper-inflated egos and pvf skills to match them were already on maguuma- glad Ark found it’s way to the promise land.
Wat. We don’t want pubbies running with us for two reasons. First, they rarely join us in mumble (even though we post the mumble info for them), which means that they tend to die and rally entire clumps of enemies. Nine times out of ten we fight groups our size or much larger, and those rallies really, really hurt us. Not fun for us, not fun for them.
Second, they do far more good by following the commander tag than they do following us. Simple concept.
Also, y u so mad?
Edit: plus, we like seeing what we can do as a group, so having pubbies with us doesn’t really do much in that department, does it? That said, we had ~10 Agg running with us at the time, so it’s kind of hypocritical, but they’ve run with us several times, so I guess not?
I’m not mad, i’m genuinely happy for y’all.
Leader of [Suh]
My moves are fresh, like my groceries.
#TeamEvonforever
So far the zergs on Mag BL are far less blobby than usual. Sorry about the randoms during those switchback fights, RET and MU. The commander leading the pubbies WPed and the pubbies didn’t, so we had a few adds. Thankfully, most of them wiped on RET’s initial push, but there were still several following us around.
Oh look a guild that doesn’t play nice with others, what an asset to a community. I must say i thought all the guilds with hyper-inflated egos and pvf skills to match them were already on maguuma- glad Ark found it’s way to the promise land.
Leader of [Suh]
My moves are fresh, like my groceries.
#TeamEvonforever
Including an already used material in a new recipe is a way to regulate the availability and cost of an item while at the same time depleting the market of a saturated commodity like T6 dust. Because of how dust is acquired it also effects other markets, like ecto, which i think Anet wants to push towards what they were like in GW1- but i doubt we will ever get to that state due to how they are acquired and the scale on which they are generated.
Leader of [Suh]
My moves are fresh, like my groceries.
#TeamEvonforever
Ark is on TC BL looking for fights with a non-queue blob. Pls come play.
If your enemy outnumbers you at all does that mean them a queue blob? I ask because that’s the impression i am getting, and i want to make sure i am not misunderstanding you.
Leader of [Suh]
My moves are fresh, like my groceries.
#TeamEvonforever
<3
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