Your changes to the thief class seem result driven in that you have a specific idea of how thieves should syngerize and are proposing towards that rather then making changes based on power and the notion of bring more versatility to builds and playstyle.
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Boohoo. So it’s a hard counter to a strategy that itself was a hard counter. As I stated earlier its not like its destroying your class mechanic initiative and steal.
Stealth is not a counter to anyone who knows what they’re doing. It doesn’t block access to your traits, therefore it is not a hard counter in the same way as denying stealth to an SA build. Stealth may hard counter you, but plenty of players have figured out how to deal with it.
Furthermore, Stealth is a thief mechanic – we have an entire traitline dedicated to “on stealth” effects, and each of our weapons get a special attack when in stealth – no other class gets anything close to comparable.
I get it, you don’t like thieves. Disagree all you want, but don’t lie or delude yourself, it makes you look foolish and does nothing for your argument.
I repeat again. Stealth is not our class mechanic initiative is as well as steal. Thief just happens to have lots of stealth access
Also thief is my second favorite class. So I love them and play one.
I hate complaining and incomplete thoughts
Think about why it was given to ranger and you will realize that any future skill that would get this would have a more apparent weakness
Lastly once again killing the pet negates the skill. Weakness found now go use it
Nah, they want the pet alive so they can abuse CND’s on a minion they know can’t dodge.
When your precious ranger is nerfed even further than it is i will take solace in the fact that i am a good enough person not to go to the ranger forums and troll.
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Hi, I know this might be a little bit off-topic, but is it really worth it to start a thief now? I’m pretty new to this game (lvl 60 warrior in about a week), and i just decided to start a new thief. At the same time as I’m looking for hints and guidelines at the forum, I can’t help but see a lot of negativity towards the new changes to the thief, like people saying they won’t play them until they’re getting buffed again. So yeah, are there still any strong builds for thief? Is it worth it to start a thief now, or should I go for an other profession?
yes thief is By Far the most broken class in the game
it has ultimate DPS mobility the ability to reset battles at any time Versatility and mainly its 98% un-counterable
if you like 1-3 key instant kills then theif is for you
This person doesn’t play a thief.
Leader of [Suh]
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So learn to stealth before sic em is applied. Isn’t that what you tell others to do? Dodge before the BS, or swing melee where you think the stealthed thief is?
Again, those of us who don’t rely on perma stealth aren’t up in arms about this. I enjoyed my fights last night. Challenging but fun.
It is not possible to LEARN to Stealth before Sic Em is applied because it’s instant cast with absolutely 0 tells, and 0 possible counter play. You can get lucky and Stealth before your enemy decides to randomly use it, but that misplay will only cost him a 5 second cooldown on Sic Em instead of the full cooldown. And if you’re NOT running Perma-Stealth, it’ll be ready to use before you can Stealth again.
Let me reiterate, Sic Em affects Perma-Stealth Thieves the least out of all Thief builds that make use of Stealth due to the lack of targetting opportunities. If you still can’t see a problem with this kind of design, I’ll take evilapprentice’s advice and stop wasting my time.
Don’t waste breath on him, he is willfully ignorant.
I have two principle concerns with regards to this change.
1) the effect it has on my ability to maintain and clear conditions as i am leading zerg sized forces
2) the effect it will have on my ability to heal in clutch circumstances where i would normally be able to disengage, get behind my opponent, and get back in the fight
This change on paper has a chilling effect on both which i think will lessen my capacity to lead in non-havoc groups as well as diminish my ability to remain in a contestable zone fighting enemies with larger sustain than i and will force me to have to actually run ooc to make any meaningful headway into small group fights; which makes me less of an asset to my group. To this end i think that this effect will force me to have to drop my stealth builds in favor of evade builds which is not necessarily a positive change but a stylistic change.
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You still steal a 15s water field from rangers. Ranger’s own water field is only 10s now. Please, consider things like that before carrying on too much guys.
Not sure where you’re pulling this 15s number from, because the stolen water field lasts 5 seconds. Please, consider this before pretending to know what you’re talking about.
(Not that this is even relevant to the discussion, I just can’t stand such blatant misinformation.)
Source: I asked this question to a twitch streamer (docMed) “is it more than 10s?” And he responded “5s”. I interpreted that answer as 10s + 5s. It’s not blatant misinformation just a misunderstanding. Why don’t you just relax hmmmm, I have 80s but not thief yet.
Then don’t speak as an authority or at least double check your information beforing stirring kitten up.
Clearly you don’t understand what a misunderstanding is. I’m sorry life is so complicated for you. Also, who said I’m an authority? My signature says “Ranger Extraordinare”. I know reading is hard, I won’t get on your case too badly.
When you comparing a thief steal ability to your class ability you are using your knowledge as a ranger to contrast perceived imbalances. If you don’t know what those differences actually don’t comment on them as if you know them- it is that simple. If you don’t have a firm understanding of a topic you should be cautious in discussing it; you instead chose to be brazen.
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You still steal a 15s water field from rangers. Ranger’s own water field is only 10s now. Please, consider things like that before carrying on too much guys.
Not sure where you’re pulling this 15s number from, because the stolen water field lasts 5 seconds. Please, consider this before pretending to know what you’re talking about.
(Not that this is even relevant to the discussion, I just can’t stand such blatant misinformation.)
Source: I asked this question to a twitch streamer (docMed) “is it more than 10s?” And he responded “5s”. I interpreted that answer as 10s + 5s. It’s not blatant misinformation just a misunderstanding. Why don’t you just relax hmmmm, I have 80s but not thief yet.
Then don’t speak as an authority or at least double check your information beforing stirring kitten up.
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…
It will also prevent shadow refuge (or mass invisibility) from being used to save downed team mates, it will make downed 3 for thieves and the mesmer downed invisibility and it`s clone totally useless, the implications are far more severe than any of the previous posts indicate.
There is the actual value of this change. Stealth was the only sure stomp save in the game. It had no counter play. Really I don’t think it is that big a deal, because if you are a Ranger what are you giving up for “Sic em’”? Probably a spirit. While having a counter play for stealth is valuable the spirits are the crutch that make most ranger builds viable right now, and on the whole I think that the spirits actually carry more value.
The anti-stealth counter should have simply been “The thief is visible, even while in stealth, for 4s” – that would solve everyone’s issue without locking a thief out of their SA traits and stealth attacks.
^ +1, Sic em should only allow the ranger to see the thief but still allow the thief to be in stealth. It would allow the ranger to 1v1 a thief with more dynamics but it would also introduce some interesting team play and coordination for smaller skirmishes. Completely locking out a trait line is just bad implementation.
Its not completely locking out a traitline.
Its Exactly that – 4s reveal means no accessing anything in SA for 4s, because all of the minor traits and all the major traits worth running are stealth reliant – how you missed an obvious fact plain as day is beyond me.
Then don’t run everything in SA? It’s a choice to run traits in SA.
Yes, it is choice between survivabiltiy and a lack of……..
Get good, shrug, that’s what thieves have told rangers when they’ve come to your threads asking for help on beating a thief in duels or having issues with thieves in general as a ranger.
Get good and come back to me
You’re not going to get sympathy from me or any other ranger really regarding the Sic Em buff, it’s lackluster at best anyway and a good thief still has insane advantages over the ranger class in general. Not to mention most builds that can even go toe to toe with a thief is a condi build because of the survivability WS brings (you know, you’re not the only class being pidgeonholed into one trait line for condition removal) which steals completely destroys, and with BP being a blast now – well , I think you get the picture.. So with that in mind, an op steal that completely counters most builds you’ll face a good ranger as in a 1on1, constant CND’s on a pet that you know can’t dodge, lack of aoe (traps were nerfed too this patch btw) , and pet AI against constant stealthing targets (you do realize it takes the pet 1 1/2 seconds to register that you’ve come out of stealth right? that’s a major dps loss – we’ll compare that 1 second to the PW nerf due to para, it now is at 0.55% when stunning , that makes or breaks a combo of dmg vs 1 full second).
I’d say we’re about even now, and even then , still not really even. I don’t think you realize how much of advantage you have on rangers even going into the fight. I know thief really well, I play one, and I know the weaknesses rangers face against thieves. So please, spare me the victim game.
I’ll spare you nothing, you certainly aren’t a victim. And i am not talking about small group encounters or duels. When i am commanding i rely on SA to quickly clear conditions if we are in poor placement to group cleanse. Anything hat negates that pushes me close to lyssa runs and full anti condition building which is stupid. Get over yourself.
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Until the condition meta changes SE needs to remain as is, imo.
Also
@Ryan
the reason players say they will go play warriors is to contrast the shear brokenness of warriors compared to Anet’s shoddy handling of their preferred profession. Stop being a kitten- you aren’t even good at it.
Leader of [Suh]
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…
It will also prevent shadow refuge (or mass invisibility) from being used to save downed team mates, it will make downed 3 for thieves and the mesmer downed invisibility and it`s clone totally useless, the implications are far more severe than any of the previous posts indicate.
There is the actual value of this change. Stealth was the only sure stomp save in the game. It had no counter play. Really I don’t think it is that big a deal, because if you are a Ranger what are you giving up for “Sic em’”? Probably a spirit. While having a counter play for stealth is valuable the spirits are the crutch that make most ranger builds viable right now, and on the whole I think that the spirits actually carry more value.
The anti-stealth counter should have simply been “The thief is visible, even while in stealth, for 4s” – that would solve everyone’s issue without locking a thief out of their SA traits and stealth attacks.
^ +1, Sic em should only allow the ranger to see the thief but still allow the thief to be in stealth. It would allow the ranger to 1v1 a thief with more dynamics but it would also introduce some interesting team play and coordination for smaller skirmishes. Completely locking out a trait line is just bad implementation.
Its not completely locking out a traitline.
Its Exactly that – 4s reveal means no accessing anything in SA for 4s, because all of the minor traits and all the major traits worth running are stealth reliant – how you missed an obvious fact plain as day is beyond me.
Then don’t run everything in SA? It’s a choice to run traits in SA.
Yes, it is choice between survivabiltiy and a lack of……..
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It’s bad enough you’ve introduced a hard counter to an entire traitline and class mechanic for people too lazy to L2P, but it’s completely unavoidable (seeing as thieves can’t go immune or block) as well?
I can’t wait for my unavoidable hard counters to other classes – here are some suggestions for you
- scorpion wire ignores block/dodge and removes all adrenaline
- Needle trap ignores block/dodge and despawns ranger pet and puts them on a 4s CD
- Signet of Shadows ignores block/dodge, knocks necro’s out of DS and locks it for 4s.
Stop me when I’ve come up with a suggestion you like…
Stealth is not your class mechanic. There are far more severe, more abundant and worst counters to other professions entire traitlines.
Seriously, this is the only counter to stealth and it basicly just gives you revealed. Its on a 40second cooldown.
Lets talk about how abusive Larcenous strike is. How easily that can shut down anyone build for boons. That is a counter.
When other people can spam Revealed on you over and over, then i might be interested in hearing your complaints.
THIS IS THE PROBLEM
all of you kittens would be much happier to absolutely break a class rather than make meaningful adjustments. And you would not be interested in hearing complaints once the thief profession was broken; it is not in your character to adopt the perspectives of others
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instead of thinking “OMG i can’t beat this” , relax.
guess what the ultimate counter to stealth is?
block. every profession has it. even better ones are block +counterattack.
also anticipation is a big factor. I’m sorry guys but you can’t just blow all your skills at once on a thief like you can with other professions.
Stupidest argument in the world. What if the thief anticipates your anticipated moves and counters them? Should you anticipate that the thief will anticipate you anticipating? You can’t predict, its called luck. Nobody should be so heavily reliant on luck to counter a class.
Also, you don’t come out of stealth when you’re blocked. Try learning how the game works first before complaining about people complaining.
Stealth has no counter-play. “Sick ’em” will be the first of many anti-stealth skills for players. I’ve already told people that’s what they were going with when they put it on the arrow carts. The arrow cart was a test platform to see if it heavily disabled the thief from playing. It didn’t. Anti-stealth counter-play is coming…and its about friggin time.
The OP hasn’t really done a good job of explaining, Block is only one of the many ways that you can already counter stealth. Despite what you may think, Stealth already has counterplay, if it didn’t then people like myself wouldn’t be able to counter it so easily.
I honestly can’t be bothered listing the existing counters, but if you are open to it, then I will. I can already tell that you’d completely ignore it though.
No you aren’t understanding; counter play in non-thief terms when referring to thieves means to render a talent tree and a mechanics of almost every build in the class useless.
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I´d like pre-beta stealth. When a thief takes damage in stealth he “flickers” making him slightly visible. Taking too much damage removes stealth.
This flicker might just look like stealth looks to allies. With this someone could guess the thiefs position and hit there, see where the thief is heading and require the thief to move more strategically.
If that was the case then stealthing wood do nothing if a channeling attack was targeting you and would leave you in arguably a worse position than if you hadn’t stealthed. It’d make thieves dog food in larger group encounters.
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You can’t put away your pet… Have you ever played a ranger before?
First off, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a thief stealthing, that IS the focus mechanic of the thief. The issue is, alot of thieves abuse CND’s on the pet because it’s a guaranteed stealth. CND is supposed to be something to work for , if you get it off on the ranger, then the ranger should be punished for it. However, when you’re getting free CND’s off on my pet even when I can dodge it myself? I’m penalized for having lackluster pet AI, but that’s alright – you are right , and it’ll probably never get fixed. There have been huge oversights in the development side of pets in general throughout this game not just involving the ranger pets so it is what it is.
Although, your reply simply shows your lack of the ranger class in general if you think rangers can ‘put their pets away’. That’s some idiotic kitten.
“Thieves who cnd pets aren’t abusing anything, they are playing the game.” – Alright, fair enough. So if they do add a functionality that dodges the pet/pet gets aegis when you dodge and you just wasted initiative on it, are you going to cry to the boards or accept it as the ranger just playing the game as well?
Also, Sic em has just been announced that it is an un-dodgeable shout cast with a 4second reveal attached to it. So when I know you’re going to CND my pet now I’ll just anticipate it since I know when thieves are going to do it usually anyway. So I guess it’s not problem really after all. When I use an un-dodgeable shout on you , you can’t complain though because we’re simply playing the game. Ok?
for someone so great at dodging you think you could anticipate backstabs- i do
Who said anything about backstabs, what does backstabbing have to do with getting free invis off a pet that can’t dodge? Explain please.
my apologies, my wrongful assumption- most posts such as yours complain about stealth attacks and the pet serving as a more or less infinite generator. Tell me do you think CnD off of an ambient creature is a legitimate move?
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You can’t put away your pet… Have you ever played a ranger before?
First off, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a thief stealthing, that IS the focus mechanic of the thief. The issue is, alot of thieves abuse CND’s on the pet because it’s a guaranteed stealth. CND is supposed to be something to work for , if you get it off on the ranger, then the ranger should be punished for it. However, when you’re getting free CND’s off on my pet even when I can dodge it myself? I’m penalized for having lackluster pet AI, but that’s alright – you are right , and it’ll probably never get fixed. There have been huge oversights in the development side of pets in general throughout this game not just involving the ranger pets so it is what it is.
Although, your reply simply shows your lack of the ranger class in general if you think rangers can ‘put their pets away’. That’s some idiotic kitten.
“Thieves who cnd pets aren’t abusing anything, they are playing the game.” – Alright, fair enough. So if they do add a functionality that dodges the pet/pet gets aegis when you dodge and you just wasted initiative on it, are you going to cry to the boards or accept it as the ranger just playing the game as well?
Also, Sic em has just been announced that it is an un-dodgeable shout cast with a 4second reveal attached to it. So when I know you’re going to CND my pet now I’ll just anticipate it since I know when thieves are going to do it usually anyway. So I guess it’s not problem really after all. When I use an un-dodgeable shout on you , you can’t complain though because we’re simply playing the game. Ok?
for someone so great at dodging you think you could anticipate backstabs- i do
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I believe in you Mag! I haven’t faced SBI yet but i know some of us on TC wouldn’t mind the chance to fight ya’ll over the next 7 weeks. Here’s hoping.
Leader of [Suh]
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The counter to stealth is the revealed debuff, not blocking or blind fields or any other equally shortsighted nonsense. Revealed is the counter to stealth; Stealth makes you invisible Revealed forces you to be visible. Problem with that is the counter to stealth is not based on intelligent counter strategy of the enemy player but rather functions like a cool down timer to stealth…that’s kitten ing stupid.
Revealed needs to be removed from automatically being applied when stealth ends. It should only be caused by specific class skills (I.E. “On My Mark” Warrior skill, “Sic Em” Ranger skill which is already getting that buff, Utility Goggles Engineer skill, etc.) and also occur when a character in stealth gets hard CC’d (fear, daze, stun, knock down, knock back, pull, etc.) and be removed by all stun break skills in like fashion to the stun effect itself.
As for the infantile stealth spamming for Thieves in specific a few fixes are in order:
Heartseeker now a three skill chain. 1 ) Heartseeker unchanged, 2 ) Freeze the Lifeblood, melee 5 second chill, 3 ) Toxic Shock, melee deals 5% more damage per condition on target.
Black Powder smoke field removed. Skill now drops a Dark Field that still causes bind. P/P unload specs will enjoy the extra life steal damage.
Dual Wielding Mechanic never use that #3 skill you only get when you don’t have an offhand skill? Thieves with no offhand store stolen skills in the #4 and #5 slots and have a 10% shorter CD on steal. A optimal way to play a Slight of Hand spec.
That is all.
The heartseeker affects thief mobility in a negative way which i think at this point in time is a bad thing. For being the most mobile class there are still a number of specs that can keep up with and out do us.
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I think Backstab needs a change. I know you wont like to hear it but it’s to much damage in a short period of time.
And one of the main reasons for my suggestions regarding Backstab and Heartseeker is to make it more interesting to use them. And i think building something up to increase the heartseeker damage is more interesting then just starting to spam it when the target is low.
You are completely anti-burst in regards to thief skills from a cursory glance at your ideas. You would substitute our capacity to act as an assassin for being a much weaker melee ranger. Your fascination with vulnerability is beyond me and you are redesigning the class around it and conditions in general- which is bad. Conditions should be viable, not the mainstay.
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Sad to see JQ running the non stop blob train; i used to respect them the most of the t1 servers- that respect is dwindling every day.
Blobbing is the fact of life in tier 1, the other servers does it just as much.
If you want some good open fights, go look for [Agg], [DA], [HzH], [EMP], [NS] to name a few. We will definitely entertain you with an open field fight.
I didn’t claim any other t1 servers didn’t blob. and as for the tags you listed i see a lot of them in the omniblob.
Just curious, how much of a number would you consider a blob?
50+ with “blobbing” most often referring to large group movement that leads to a blob formation
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Sad to see JQ running the non stop blob train; i used to respect them the most of the t1 servers- that respect is dwindling every day.
Blobbing is the fact of life in tier 1, the other servers does it just as much.
If you want some good open fights, go look for [Agg], [DA], [HzH], [EMP], [NS] to name a few. We will definitely entertain you with an open field fight.
I didn’t claim any other t1 servers didn’t blob. and as for the tags you listed i see a lot of them in the omniblob.
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If there is going to be faction based WvW a few things need to happen i think:
1) you have to attune yourself to a team; your account becomes bound and required a gem transfer fee to change teams equivalent to the cost of transferring to a very high server
2) WvW overflows need to be added all with equal affect on PPT, this means that scoring needs to be adjusted to take into account overflows
that’s a start but a change to a system like this has a lot of details that need to be worked over
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in my opinion there is only 1 prob with stealth in this game
the amount of heals they are getting while constantly stealthed.
they have HUGE burst dmg ? fine
spammable stealth ? Fine
but kitten the healing is too much you got him down to almost death ? no prob stealth spamm and full hp again while he constantly opening with Huge burst dmg on you you got him almost again ? stealth full HP again hoops you died now……..
If thieves couldn’t heal or clear conditions during stealth, it would be balanced even without stealth breakers. In fact there might be room for some slight buffs to the mechanic if anything.
If they couldn’t remove condis with stealth the only removal they would have would be sword 2 and shadowstep… As has been mentioned before in this thread thieves rely a lot on stealth to survive. The sad truth is that those who complain about thieves now, will complain about them no matter what, since even if their requested were answered, and stealth was removed entirely from the game, thieves would be compensated with higher damage/more evades/other survival methods and “STUPID OP THIEVES” would still be the words of their house… permastealth can be frustrating, but honestly thieves are made of wet tissue paper.
Obviously there would have to be rebalancing, as I stated, which you ignored.
And frankly, your post is nothing but air, a load of assumptions typical of an elitist. Get off your high horse. Because people do not have the same opinion as you, does not mean they know nothing about the game, are looking to make it worse or simpler, or are ‘baddies’. I can’t remember the last time I lost to a thief in WvW or even saw one contribute much of anything in SPvP.
Regardless of that, they are not fun to play against, only to play as. And for anybody looking out for the greater health of the game at large, that cannot be okay.
When the thief allows for a fun and balanced trade of skill between itself and it’s opponents, I will stop complaining, as will most players. You and those like you however, will continue eternally to complain about how everyone isn’t good enough to breathe the same air or walk the same ground as you.
It is too easy to say take away X but too many in your camp refuse to compensate. Until they change our mobility and make evasion and assassin play more viable stealth has to stay or this class is worthless.
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Good way to end the week DB use 15 to take a camp then jump on the corpse of one player despite it taking your group 3 tries to kill me. GG scrublords.
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I imagine not greatly as the GvG guilds will go there to skirmish and GvG and then either go back to raiding which they would have done anyway or go back to something else which they would have done anyway. Spectators may increase but i get the feeling interference will be heavily punished.
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I don’t think thieves have limited build capabilities. It just that most thieves want to play the scrub permastealth build, giving the rest of us a bad name.
You are right, there are multiple thief builds- just most of them suck when compared to trying to do a similar job compared to another profession.
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I disagree that shadow’s embrace must be changed because it can be used to cheese condition builds with limited condition application. Shadow’s embrace is one of the few ways we can fight heavy condition build and stand a chance. Nerfing shadow’s embrace would improve the ability of nerco’s and engis to kill thieves while improving the chances of P thieves to fight stealth builds. how is that a sensible change? Shadow’s embrace could stand to be brought in line but given the current condition meta it makes sense. Conditions in general need to be tweaked to bring them in line with cleansing capacities across classes and then shadow’s embrace needs to be fixed. not the other way around.
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Remove stun breaker.
Reduce cooldown to 30 seconds.
Increase duration for shadow return(stun breaker) to 20 seconds.
I feel like this would be a bad change on 2 fronts.
1) it removes a source of stun break which in most builds are not abundant
2) we gain increased chances for shadow return but we are still limited by a distance constraint
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:O? We got some bandwagoneers?!?!?! Why weren’t we informed?!
Of course you didn’t; you went from tier 4 to tier 1.5 purely due to a fluctuation in the Earth’s gravity that cause bull dung to be more naturally buoyant.
10/10 troll bait successful. I didnt know that it took 10 months for bandwaggons to get that far, especially given that DB pulled it off in a month, and then QUICKLY fell apart. To a lesser degree you could look at kaineng for basically the same thing. No, TC has never been the “bandwaggon”, and we’ve never gotten influxes of guilds in a short time. Just over the last 2 weeks tier 1 servers have gotten more guilds than I can count on a single hand. HELL TC has even LOST some guilds recently.
please be more mad.
Speaking of which, TC does have a new guild to welcome to the server, which is a welcome change after the sad departure of some of our other guilds. I swear we should actually try and get a recruitment message up in the forums before the Season gets here. >_< Anyways, you guys in SOS might be more familiar with our newest transfers from Ehmry Bay though.
Looking forward to seeing more Good Fights [GF] on the Coast. =3
Thanks for the welcomes! Unfortunately lots of GF personnel are forum banned due to never ending battles with magummy bears in the great PvF, and have been unable to contribute to this thread.
UNICORNS, i’ve seen you out and about lately and love your names. Extend a welcome to your guild from NOPE- i’ve tried to say hey when i have ran into ya’ll. I have enjoyed fighting with GF thus far.
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#TeamEvonforever
I’ve returned to the game only a month or so ago so I’ve only heard of people “buying” guilds. From what I understand on my server (SoR) we, as far as the Guild Leaders that are on at my time (OCX/SEA, LATE NA) do not pay for any transfers, only recently there have been mention of us gathering gold if a guild is interested and we think we need them to help offsetting the cost. Most of my guildies pretty much say we rather spend the gold on helping our own guild than have a wild card guild.
I know a few days ago someone posted a link to BG’s charity page where they have gold donating contest for guild transfers. I’ve only heard of rumours of JQ and BG buying guilds, but I take the news with a grain of salt like anytime I heard about spies or pre-planned double teams. It’s possible, but not going to affect me any.
It’s nothing T2 servers can do really to get more players to join, not gold offer, not gem offers. you just appeal them to your server with community. After that it’s up to them weather they want to keep stacking a T1 server and play for 30min a day to get a chance for fame (not really). Or actually be on a server and build it up to the top. Many people seem to think they have t ostart at the bottom to do this but I don’t think so, it’s easier to fill the top than randomly fill the mid or bottom tier, even if it means filling one T2 server at a time.
Bottom tiers will suck, but I’d imagine those too will attract it’s own types of players (GvG/Roamers maybe?).
So we have to bring the mercenary guilds to our servers with out community against a hedge of gold. Sounds legit.[/quote]
If that’s all you got from that then yeah, just give up.[/quote]
Look we recently bought in 2 decent sized NA guilds CNB+Rx where they were offerred full expenses paid by JQ, they would rather choose SoS because of our fantastic community. But! it’s hard competiting with BG+JQ getting guilds which quite frankly don’t really care about the community (if they did they really wouldn’t be leaving), they want to get fights in the gold league and to have your full expenses paid is much more appealing then not.
a month ago we actually had a interview with 6 guilds all wanting to transfer to SoS, but because we couldn’t even guarantee that we could raise even 2k gold to help with the transfer alot of those guilds went to BG and JQ full expenses paid aswell. (the majority on SoS want guilds to be fully committed to coming over like CNB and Rx are).[/quote]
Pretty much this, It is just stupid to me how bloated T1 is and how they perpetuate this idea that it doesn’t affect their recruiting efforts positively.
Leader of [Suh]
My moves are fresh, like my groceries.
#TeamEvonforever
and roaming is NOT the same as on lower tiers. You have some roamers, but no where near the numbers as on lower tiers.
As for T1, I like that it is stacked. I’d just like to see more competition there. For example, I want to see the top 3 in their own league. I’d like the winner of that league to receive some great prizes and the loser to receive virtually nothing. That would be exciting and bring the competition out.
Regarding queues, I think the big unknown right now is how leagues will affect queues. They might increase if the matchup is close and the PvE achievement hunters decide to play or they might decrease if the matchups are bad.
As much as I agree with this, I think I want more “T1 servers” as much as 6 if possible. At this time everyone is calling out saying that everyone is jumping ship and joining T1 servers, those guilds will soon jump ship and join another. I am not very keen on politics of guilds and such but from just idle banter I hear on T1 VOIP most of the guilds that join up in T1 rarely does anything meaningful if anything it cause other guilds to leave.
Since everyone is just saying the only reason T1 servers are T1 servers is due to numbers, why not promote stacking of the T2 servers? I know it’s basically saying the opposite of everyone else, but why not? that is the only way to play “even” on the massive scale right. Ideally you want to join a BL and BE the person who cause the que, but there is no perfect system in place for that. In that sense a low que time is ideal. When every server can que their maps in a matchup, it boils down to their server cooperation and coordination to see which is better.
The mid tier servers is wrecked with shifting of 1-3 unbalanced servers who would move back and forth on tiers every week due to coverage/populations. But if you start filling up the upper tiers to a “peak” point you can have more even out matches instead of just having people migrate to a mid-lower tier server to cause some shifting for a few weeks.
Of course plenty of peopel will stand up and scream out server loyalty. Then stay if you are that loyal to your server. For me I rather have better fights.
Because how do we t2 servers stand a chance against t1 servers, with gold transfers the t1 servers are monopolising the whole transfer flow, if i were leading a 50 man guild and wanted to go to gold league.
Would i
A. get all expenses paid for, not get absolutely stomped week in week out and be in a relatively stable server
or
B. pay 1800 gems, get stomped on by t1 servers, have the threat that the server could collapse any week due to guilds having enough of being stomped on.
you do the maths.
I’ve returned to the game only a month or so ago so I’ve only heard of people “buying” guilds. From what I understand on my server (SoR) we, as far as the Guild Leaders that are on at my time (OCX/SEA, LATE NA) do not pay for any transfers, only recently there have been mention of us gathering gold if a guild is interested and we think we need them to help offsetting the cost. Most of my guildies pretty much say we rather spend the gold on helping our own guild than have a wild card guild.
I know a few days ago someone posted a link to BG’s charity page where they have gold donating contest for guild transfers. I’ve only heard of rumours of JQ and BG buying guilds, but I take the news with a grain of salt like anytime I heard about spies or pre-planned double teams. It’s possible, but not going to affect me any.
It’s nothing T2 servers can do really to get more players to join, not gold offer, not gem offers. you just appeal them to your server with community. After that it’s up to them weather they want to keep stacking a T1 server and play for 30min a day to get a chance for fame (not really). Or actually be on a server and build it up to the top. Many people seem to think they have t ostart at the bottom to do this but I don’t think so, it’s easier to fill the top than randomly fill the mid or bottom tier, even if it means filling one T2 server at a time.
Bottom tiers will suck, but I’d imagine those too will attract it’s own types of players (GvG/Roamers maybe?).
So we have to bring the mercenary guilds to our servers with out community against a hedge of gold. Sounds legit.
If that’s all you got from that then yeah, just give up.
Note how i specified mercenary guilds.
Leader of [Suh]
My moves are fresh, like my groceries.
#TeamEvonforever
and roaming is NOT the same as on lower tiers. You have some roamers, but no where near the numbers as on lower tiers.
As for T1, I like that it is stacked. I’d just like to see more competition there. For example, I want to see the top 3 in their own league. I’d like the winner of that league to receive some great prizes and the loser to receive virtually nothing. That would be exciting and bring the competition out.
Regarding queues, I think the big unknown right now is how leagues will affect queues. They might increase if the matchup is close and the PvE achievement hunters decide to play or they might decrease if the matchups are bad.
As much as I agree with this, I think I want more “T1 servers” as much as 6 if possible. At this time everyone is calling out saying that everyone is jumping ship and joining T1 servers, those guilds will soon jump ship and join another. I am not very keen on politics of guilds and such but from just idle banter I hear on T1 VOIP most of the guilds that join up in T1 rarely does anything meaningful if anything it cause other guilds to leave.
Since everyone is just saying the only reason T1 servers are T1 servers is due to numbers, why not promote stacking of the T2 servers? I know it’s basically saying the opposite of everyone else, but why not? that is the only way to play “even” on the massive scale right. Ideally you want to join a BL and BE the person who cause the que, but there is no perfect system in place for that. In that sense a low que time is ideal. When every server can que their maps in a matchup, it boils down to their server cooperation and coordination to see which is better.
The mid tier servers is wrecked with shifting of 1-3 unbalanced servers who would move back and forth on tiers every week due to coverage/populations. But if you start filling up the upper tiers to a “peak” point you can have more even out matches instead of just having people migrate to a mid-lower tier server to cause some shifting for a few weeks.
Of course plenty of peopel will stand up and scream out server loyalty. Then stay if you are that loyal to your server. For me I rather have better fights.
Because how do we t2 servers stand a chance against t1 servers, with gold transfers the t1 servers are monopolising the whole transfer flow, if i were leading a 50 man guild and wanted to go to gold league.
Would i
A. get all expenses paid for, not get absolutely stomped week in week out and be in a relatively stable server
or
B. pay 1800 gems, get stomped on by t1 servers, have the threat that the server could collapse any week due to guilds having enough of being stomped on.
you do the maths.
I’ve returned to the game only a month or so ago so I’ve only heard of people “buying” guilds. From what I understand on my server (SoR) we, as far as the Guild Leaders that are on at my time (OCX/SEA, LATE NA) do not pay for any transfers, only recently there have been mention of us gathering gold if a guild is interested and we think we need them to help offsetting the cost. Most of my guildies pretty much say we rather spend the gold on helping our own guild than have a wild card guild.
I know a few days ago someone posted a link to BG’s charity page where they have gold donating contest for guild transfers. I’ve only heard of rumours of JQ and BG buying guilds, but I take the news with a grain of salt like anytime I heard about spies or pre-planned double teams. It’s possible, but not going to affect me any.
It’s nothing T2 servers can do really to get more players to join, not gold offer, not gem offers. you just appeal them to your server with community. After that it’s up to them weather they want to keep stacking a T1 server and play for 30min a day to get a chance for fame (not really). Or actually be on a server and build it up to the top. Many people seem to think they have t ostart at the bottom to do this but I don’t think so, it’s easier to fill the top than randomly fill the mid or bottom tier, even if it means filling one T2 server at a time.
Bottom tiers will suck, but I’d imagine those too will attract it’s own types of players (GvG/Roamers maybe?).
So we have to bring the mercenary guilds to our servers with our community against a hedge of gold. Sounds legit.
Leader of [Suh]
My moves are fresh, like my groceries.
#TeamEvonforever
Despite the greatness of such an idea, in it’s current incarnation WxP does a lot of harm.
Progression and specialization in pvp is a great thing imo, but the methods of getting WxP, the lack of progressing equally across your characters in such a time devoted system, and the strength of certain masteries given little investment make WxP ranks a far cry from what they could be.
That said i don’t have well written ideas on how to correct this trend.
Leader of [Suh]
My moves are fresh, like my groceries.
#TeamEvonforever
3. Roamers are generally bad, but have good builds. I feel like this is a big thing most servers ignore when talking kitten on T1 servers. T1 knows builds for W3. They will be tanky, they will try to res downed players, and worst of all are all they are 75% warriors and guardians. Be prepared for a lots of resets in battle as almost no T1 roamers will go down without at least trying to run and reset the fight.
I had to chuckle at reading this from an FA player.
The first time we fought you guys was one of those wtf rng matchups it was us, you and TC. We’d never fought either before that I can remember (or if we had it had been awhile).
TC despite having a huge number advantage over FA were all zerker specced and ran in one group and died by the truckload. It was like a rain of bags for almost no work. You could tell they were used to steamrolling with karma trains over outmatched foes and could almost sense the confusion when they ran into an equal sized group. So it was all “yay they’re all zerker zergers free loot! YAY!”
Then me and a few guildies broke off from our zerg and we ran into an equal number of FA and thought it would be the same so charged in heedlessly. It was all “OH GOD THEY’RE ALL PVT AND KNOW HOW TO PLAY! PULL UP! PULL UP!!!” Haha. And I’ve noticed that every time we’ve fought FA since, they can’t even come close in numbers or coverage but pound for pound they are the toughest server I’ve ever fought overall. So, yeah, /salute and all that.
But back to the topic at hand….skill lag in tier 1 is awful, there could be a zerg fighting somewhere in your general vicinity (yeah the above posters are right its usually the SoR zerg but not always) and you’ll find yourself wondering when/if your button presses will go off. If you’re playing a class that lives or dies depending on if you dodge at the right time it is inconvenient to say the least.
JQ queues are really dumb because when we’re losing to SoR / BG half the maps are outmanned. I’ve spent a lot of time in SoR border and seen five other JQ all night. On the other hand when we’re winning or fighting smaller serves every map is queued. Kinda gives you an idea of what t1 is all about.
Also tier 1 is probably the only tier where players dislike winning because it just means more fair weather transfers come in and you have a hard time even getting on the map to play. Not to say everyone who comes to tier 1 is just looking to zerg and be carried, but let’s be honest most are.
If you look at the matchups there are two other groupings of servers that should be really good mathcuhps with each other – Sea of Sorrows / Fort Aspenwood / Maguuma / Stormbluff Isle and Ehmry Bay / Yak’s Bend / Borlis Pass / Crystal Desert / Isle of Janthir. I would look at some of those servers if you want close competition and good fights. T1 maps feel very crowded.
Honestly the best fights I’ve had in terms of opposing player skill have been against Fort Aspenwood and Sea of Sorrows. Blackgate has some good roamers too but its rare I actually get to finish a fight against them without one zerg or another interrupting.
Oh boo hoo, i feel for the tier 1 servers. It must be such a pain to have players continuously stream to you AS you keep mass-recruiting.
Leader of [Suh]
My moves are fresh, like my groceries.
#TeamEvonforever
:O? We got some bandwagoneers?!?!?! Why weren’t we informed?!
Of course you didn’t; you went from tier 4 to tier 1.5 purely due to a fluctuation in the Earth’s gravity that cause bull dung to be more naturally buoyant.
You are being purposefully ignorant if you think TC’s rise and DB’s rise are comparable.
Leader of [Suh]
My moves are fresh, like my groceries.
#TeamEvonforever
I’d like to remind all TC players that you joined a Role-Playing Server and are not allowed to be out-of-character on the official forums.
Thank you for your cooperation.
I do not understand what you mean and even my connection with The Dream does not provide me with the clarity to understand your jabberings. What are you talking about and in what manner do they pertain to our conflicts over The Mists?
Leader of [Suh]
My moves are fresh, like my groceries.
#TeamEvonforever
A little something we picked up from those tier 1 match ups we keep losing. Guess Zerg balling the map, always fighting under siege, and never engaging in any fight without a 5 to 1 advantage is rubbing off on our PuGs.
We can’t take credit for developing this tactic, that honor goes to SoR.
Lulz TC players have huge egos that don’t match their poor skill. It’s all fun and games when you beat up on T2 and T3 servers but the moment you guys face servers more organized than yours, you go QQ all over the forums.
Funny sounds just like SoR to me
Maybe
I’ll let you know when SoR faces a more organized server, it certainly hasn’t happened yet.
You’ll probably be saying the same when ya’ll take bronze after season 1
Leader of [Suh]
My moves are fresh, like my groceries.
#TeamEvonforever
? We were having such a fun fight.
