Guild Wars 2

LinseyMurdock.4165:

I am definitely working on the precursor scavenger hunt, but like others have said, things like this take time and I want to get it right. Not to mention, it’s not the only thing on my plate. Please do not expect to see the precursor scavenger hunt in the next patch. I may be awesome, but I am still only human and this is a fairly large amount of work to get done and done right. Please be patient!

You are always awesome, human or not

A question though — once the scavenger hunts are in place and the first person finds a precursor what keeps the world from getting the same precursor much like it was when the Moa Chick scavenger hunt was finally solved? Is this just the end of the precursor difficulty?

Man, that has seriously got to hurt the team. I’m sorry for them

Sometimes a little bit of empathy goes a long way…

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Lucid.7310:

The event starts at 3PM EST, I usually leave the office around 4PM, and get home around 5PM. Where will I be headed to meet up with people experiencing the event that is already 2 hours in?

I think Anet has forgotten who pays their bills. I will give them a hint, it’s not the kids using mom/dad’s credit card.

I"m off, but I feel so bad for people that continue to be screwed over by “one time events”, and missing things. We live in a culture that promotes the unemployed, a government that actively pays them to stay unemployed (even provides them health benefits to stay unemployed), I wish that this place was different.

I hope for Christmas there are no “one time events”. Sure we may not be at work, but we also have families.

Do you complain about other entertainment industry events or do you only have a problem with it from a game? If the symphony gives one free performance of the Nutcracker Suite during the Christmas season do you decide they are actively promoting the unemployed? What if your favorite musician gives a concert in your town at a time that you can’t attend — do you hope that they’ll cancel the rest of the tour; maybe never offer another live show? Should no movie ever release on Christmas Day because many of us spend all day with our families?

The movie analogy is probably the best one here since the new content will persist after the event, it’s just the release of the content that is one time only.

Online gaming falls into the realm of entertainment, and the entertainment industry offers one time events as a normal part of business. I’m a long time Guild Wars player and fan, and this time around I have to miss ALL of the events. For myself I hope they keep having this type of thing so I have a chance to participate next time around.

Let’s see… What’s different this time than from Halloween’s BLTC problems…

This time anything that is in the chest can drop from any mob on the Lost Shore — you can play the RNG game with real money or with time, your choice. You can also, from the beginning, forge the chest in the Mystic Forge. If you don’t want to risk cash don’t buy the Consortium Chest.

You can be upset all you want, but that doesn’t make it justified. You can also decide not to purchase chests. That’s a perfectly reasonable decision.

Pandemic.3516:

nachtnebel.9168:

The fact there is nothing you have to do is what made GW1 so great, you could just log in, do what ever you wanted and then maybe played something else for the next two, three or even six month without losing power. This is what most of the old community expected GW2 to be like too.

The worst thing about the power creep or gear treadmill is that it is absolutely unnecessary. You don’t need increasing stats to do new or harder content cause mechanics don’t care about numbers, they work no matter if you have 20k or 50k HP.

this post is bs.

you could get level 20 gear in gw1 that was weak as piss and you would be slaughtered everywhere you went. you had to work extremely hard to be on a competing level. gw2 makes it so easy that those exotics people are complaining about being useless probably took no more than a week to get a full set.

I would love to see someone get max gear at max level in gw1 in a week or two.

Didn’t play much Guild Wars 1 did you?

In Nightfall you could get max gear in about an hour if you had the money to pay for it already stashed, or you could spend a couple of days to a week and get it if you had to build the money and materials. IF that were your goal. You could also play the game casually, level up naturally, hit 20th level in a couple of weeks and then grab your max armor. Then the whole world is yours to do with as you please… You can go anywhere, play anywhere, and just enjoy the game as you see fit.

That’s what I want GW2 to be.

I’d have loved it if there had been no “levels” at all.

Zenyatoo, thank you very much! I appreciate your help

I’m planning to use the guild banquet for a Thanksgiving feast for my guildies but I’ve never activiated one and I’m not sure how they work.

Can only guild members interact with it or can anyone in the vicinity, sort of like banners?

Does a table spawn? Do people who partake receive nutrition buffs? Are there a limited number of servings? Does drinking from the keg count toward the Thirsty achievement? Or is it all just pretend the way the Chef’s outfit pig on a spit is all pretend?

Any information at all about the guild banquet would be much appreciated.

Shouldn’t the one in red be asuran instead of human?

Please do this.

Ha! Right… Watch the forums explode if there are capes for humans and not for Charr.

Unless they can come up with a good looking cape for all of the races they’re not likely to put one in the game no matter how many suggestion threads pop up. I was just repeating the reasons that I have seen that they don’t already exist.

I’m going to miss this event too. But, I don’t want them to stop having one time events because of it. Sometimes there are things that only happen once — I’ll also miss one of my best friend’s birthday celebrations, but I don’t think I’ll ask them to never have another party simply because I can’t make this one.

It’s also not like the new content is going to go away after three days — it just that the one time event will usher in new content to enjoy for the life of the game.

I’ll use an analogy: I can buy tickets to a concert and enjoy that one time “event” or I can buy a CD and enjoy the content forever. I like both. I do both. But, if an artist schedules a concert on a night I can’t attend I don’t ask that they cancel the rest of the tour.

Guild Wars 2 is entertainment — it isn’t the end of the world if people miss events. But it IS cool to be there and to be a part of it, and I’m sad that I won’t get to make it. I hope someone will record it and post it up so that I can enjoy it even though I won’t be able to participate this time around.

I don’t remember where I read it so I can’t link a source, but the devs have said that they did away with capes because they couldn’t make them look good on Charr characters. Personally, I also can’t see them looking good on Norn — a Norn with a cape is just not the right mental image.

So — weapons, shields, armor with emblems. I really love the idea of the armor emblem, I’m just not crazy about the way that the guild armor looks before the emblem is applied.

What I really want is a system like Guild Wars 1 where tab targeted the NEXT enemy (enemy: that would be a hostile, not a weapon rack, or a moa, or a bunny) or C to target the closest enemy. Tab would take you through all of the enemy choices so if there were priority targets you could find them quickly, but C would always be the hostile creature nearest to you. It worked very well and we need it back again.

Personally I don’t want a targeting button to ever choose a neutral target. If I want to shoot the moa I’ll target it manually.

The TP isn’t supposed to be extra storage. You can immediately relist what you buy without storing it, but if you buy 100 stacks of Candy Corn you need bank space to put it in without the TP holding it for you for a year. If you’re going to play/manipulate market demands then at least you should accept the storage pressure.

Definitely not signed.

Yes. I had just made a post a couple of hours ago suggesting a “Leaders Compendium” for guild leaders, much like the Commander’s, but joinable/seen only by guild members.

But honestly, I don’t care what the mechanic is if it addresses this. Not being able to form a cohesive guild group for WvW or large-scale PvE content is a problem.

I would like to see the inclusion of a Leader’s Compendium, comparable to the Commander’s Compendium, but for Guild Leaders to create PvE or WvW squads of guild members only.

I do not consider myself a great tactician and I don’t want to lead WvW forces at large. But, I would like to be able to sometimes party up with as many of my guild members as would like to join for PvE or WvW. This would require a different symbol from the Commander’s and would limit those joining the squad to only guild members. The symbol should be visible to all members of the guild, but not necessarily visible to other players.

My guild has weekly outtings where we go to a specific PvE map and go through it killing monsters and completing dynamic events, just as a great excuse to play together. This would make those outtings far easier to enjoy and to keep the players together.

Perhaps this could be available for influence under Politics or Architecture, but I would also be willing to purchase it with gold the way the Commander’s title is bought now.

ps: It would be ever so much better to just have guild member’s dots visible on all maps the way that party member’s are visible.

Josh Foreman

Aurelian Omenkind.2470:
Tried 4 or 5 times, then said “nope, I’m’a farm some more candy corns.” Been happy since.

When I made this map I was HOPING that people who aren’t into jumping would do exactly this. They’d see a fun Halloween looking environment, maybe get to the first chest and snag a goodie, then be on their merry way. I see now it was a mistake to make the hardest jumping challenge in the game part of an in-your-face update like a holiday event. I’m not going to stop making difficult stuff like this, they just won’t be so prominent in the future. I honestly hate making people upset and have a very high level of empathy. So it’s been hard hearing all the people that are so angry, frustrated and sad because of something I’ve made. But it’s just another lesson learned.

It makes me horribly sad to hear that you won’t be doing this again for holiday events. I gave up and never got it, but I really enjoyed the attempt. I played for about an hour and a half, and I enjoyed the people that were in the group with me, added a couple to my friend’s list and then went my merry way. So, while you’re getting lots of very vocal “this sucks” comments, please know that there are a ton of us that enjoyed the challenge even if we weren’t up to completing it. I like the thought of having some really tough things on a deadline, so if you make it you make it and if you don’t… Well, better luck next time.

Empathy is great, but so is objectivity. This puzzle was good for the game.

The chat window is bad. Clicking on the game window should move me out of chat the same way that hitting escape does.

Yes! This would be a huge help. So would being able to see guildies on the regular map, but most especially in WvW. This would be fabulous!

Hey Wolfhammer

Yes, if you’ve ever belonged to another guild that hosts their website on Enjin then you’re already registered with Enjin and you just have to join our site

Gee, thanks Nomadicus. That’s just what we need… A small arms dealer for the capitalistic reprobates that are intent on destroying the communistic hub of AI.

I can tell by your use of punctuation that my guild is the perfect match for you. The period you placed at the end of each sentence, the clever use of the apostrophe to create the contraction guild’s. That’s how I know that you should be a member of AI.

Our recruitment thread is here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/guilds/guilds/Alchemy-Incorporated-AI-is-recruiting-on-Sorrows-Furnace-server/first#post19480

You’ll notice that we mention that we value punctuation in the recruitment thread, and if you check our forum you will find a short discussion dealing with our favorite punctuation marks. You definitely belong in AI.

Hi Cynister,

In AI most of our players are Central time, but we have people from all over the world. We have active guild chat, Mumble, active forums, events, outtings, and a lot of fun. Our recruitment thread is here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/guilds/guilds/Alchemy-Incorporated-AI-is-recruiting-on-Sorrows-Furnace-server/first#post19480

If after ready that you find you’re interested in joining just give a shout

Awesome! If I were on SoR I would definitely take you up on this. But, I love seeing guilds who understand that the multi-guilding system isn’t a threat and that it will work if people are given the opportunity to move about freely.

If I could send you a cookie I would — since I can’t I’ll just give you a bump instead.

I agree with many of your points but have serious problems with a couple of them:

Multi-guilding is fine as is — limiting guild membership to characters instead of accounts would take away freedom of play. “What, I can’t play my Mesmer tonight because it’s in the social guild instead of the WvW guild? Now what? Dang… Should I just leave my social guild and put all of my characters into the WvW guild so I can play who I want? Or maybe I should just quit WvW’ing so I can take my Warrior into the dungeon tommorow.” No. Just… No.

Last Logged: What, so you can kick the people that haven’t been on for awhile? If what you have is a social guild then enjoy seeing people when they come in. If what you have is a guild in which people fill specific roles, and if they aren’t around it is harmful to the guild, then you already know who isn’t showing up because of the roles not being fulfilled. This is a needling point of control that guild leaders don’t need to have and members don’t need to see.

I have a guild hall. Why don’t you? The devs shouldn’t have to provide everything. Pick a spot in any major city that has a merchant and a waypoint nearby and make it your guildhall. There’s an island in Lions Arch a little South of the Eastern Ward that would make a great guildhall. You should give it a look — it has a waypoint, bar, nice scenery, the bartender is a merch… it’s a nice place. There are LOTS of nice places in this game. There’s a bar in the Grove where the NPCs talk about the advantages of having allies, there’s an open house in Divinity’s Reach. Pick one — make it your own.

The most important point that I see and agree with is that there needs to be a separation between inviting new members and kicking members. I’d really like to make it so that most ranks can invite and only the leader can kick.

Guild mail would be nice, the Message of the Day displaying into chat would be great, an in-game calendar would be very nice, the Finish Them stake having a guild banner on it would be awesome.

The very biggest Quality of Life add-on for me is alliance chat. I loved my alliance in GW1 and I want it back!

I like vanity items. I like knowing what I’m paying for, deciding if it meets my criteria of value, and spending my money if I choose. I consider the OP’s stance that I would buy a costume or a weapon skin to show that I have money offensive. It isn’t about showing off wealth, it’s about having something I enjoy in the game. I don’t like the legs on the witch’s costume for female characters so I didn’t buy that. I don’t like the Mad King costume for female characters so I didn’t buy that. If the hood could be used with armor I would buy it, but it looks pretty stupid with a skirt and peasant blouse, so I didn’t buy that. Does it sound like I’m trying to show off how much money I have?

I love the staff skin. I would buy that. But, it isn’t for sale. I think that’s sad, and a poor choice on A-Net’s part.

I would play the RNG game and open tons of little bags looking for the staff skin if that were the option, the same way I did for the later versions of the Celestial Mini-Pets in Guild Wars 1, but that’s not how they’ve chosen to put these skins into the game. But I’m not playing RNG for skins with Black Lion Chests anymore… There are more skins that I don’t like than ones that I do and the drop rate for getting any of them, much less the one I want, is far too low. If I buy more gems, and that is a huge IF, it’ll be to exchange for gold so that I can buy the single skin that I really want.

So, after all is said, the answer to the OPs question is yes, I want some vanity items in the cash shop. Vanity items are the only reason the cash shop should even exist.

Edit to add: I love the way they’ve put the free commemorative items into the cash shop for free. People who have to work, or go to a funeral, or have a freak power outtage on the day of the event finale can still get the item. It’s to have an, “I was there when” item that everyone has access to for a reasonable amount of time. The only thing that would make me happier about the devil horns is if they had been a transmutable item like the shoulders that would allow me to wear them as armor instead of as town clothes, but without adding armor items to the game through the cash shop; even for free.

The Mad King Thorn was the king in Kryta centuries ago. I don’t know if the haunted doors are spawning in Norn areas, since the event is based on Human lore. But, at least for the first scavenger hunt, all of the action takes place in low-level areas so you should be able to participate without problem if you use the portal in Hoelbrak to go to Lions Arch, then use the portal in Lions arch to go to Divinity’s Reach.

To participate go to Lions Arch, climb up the jumping platforms outside the mystic cauldron and jump in; then play costume brawl. Talk to an asuran biographer next to the Lion Statue in the Grand Piaza and she will mail you a matter meter. Use the clues to complete the scavenger hunt and get a cool back piece as a reward. Give candy to costumed children in Lions Arch.

While you are out in the world playing the game as normal you’ll be able to Trick-or-Treat at haunted doors, mine candy corn, and carve pumpkins. Eat Candy. Be sure to show up around mid-day on the 28th to participate in the grand event.

Have FUN!

/signed

Please? We need more closet space!

Hey Kristy,

I just did a time conversion and it looks like noon your time is about 8:00 pm our time, except you are tomorrow. Or I am yesterday. Or something like that. Anyway… if you play during the early afternoon it looks like it would be compatible with our peak times. That said, I’d love for you to check out AI — we have a great group of diverse people and we have a lot of fun. You’re welcome to jump in and test us out and see what you think You can see our recruitment post here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/guilds/guilds/Alchemy-Incorporated-AI-is-recruiting-on-Sorrows-Furnace-server/first#post19480

Have fun!

That’s a pretty good Looking for Guild Post, it made me chuckle. I like it.

AI is on Sorrows Furnace, so if you want to come check us out and see if you enjoy the banter, make some friends, get some groups — there’s nothing to lose. It’s a fun guild with a great mix of people.

Favorite activity… hmmmm… For me it’s probably table dancing in the guild hall before heading out to what we call Occupy Tyria play dates. That’s where 10 or 20 of us go into the same zone, do events, kill stuff, gather stuff, and make nuisances of ourselves in map chat. Fun

Here’s our guild recruitment post:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/guilds/guilds/Alchemy-Incorporated-AI-is-recruiting-on-Sorrows-Furnace-server/first#post19480

You can even join us AND some of the others here. At the same time. Because A-Net is awesome like that.

I love your name And, since you don’t want to change servers, that is all.

We do both. People are forming dungeon groups pretty much nightly in guild chat. We also do schedule dungeons through the website, but that’s mostly for the weekends and I doubt we’ll schedule any this weekend.

Right now Yaks Bend has us pretty well shut down in WvW — can’t even get out of the Citadel and off the cliffs easily — and my wager is it’ll stay that way until reset since the Halloween event is underway.

Tonight we’ll be having a playdate that isn’t about anything except getting together to play with guildies and allies and acting goofy.

If you want to jump in and see if we suit you you’d be more than welcome

Hi Sedlaheim,

Check out AI on the Sorrows Furnace server, we’re mature (well honestly old is a better description than mature) and mostly relaxed, a little bit loony, and we do some of everything. You can find the recruitment thread here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/guilds/guilds/Alchemy-Incorporated-AI-is-recruiting-on-Sorrows-Furnace-and-Gunnars-Hold/first#post501106

If you’re interested give a shout and I’ll get you an invitation.

My girlfriend received an everlasting mystery tonic from a Black Lion chest last night. When clicking it she becomes a piece of furniture. A chair, a table, a hammock, a floating chest… I’ve tried sitting on the chair or jumping on the table, but it doesn’t work, anti-collision is still in effect.

Was this really intended? Furniture? Has anyone else gotten this?

Also, the tonic came in account bound instead of tradable. Since the skins are not bound I was wondering if this is as intended.

Account information available upon dev request.

Also: I laughed my butt off — it was incredibly entertaining for ME. Not so much for her.

I have started and partly completed some major upgrades for my guild. Things like Art of War V that have very long completion times. With the Halloween update in place I’d like to switch over and make some 10% Gathering Bonuses instead. Will stopping my current upgrade and switching to a different one cost me the time that I’ve already spent on the upgrade? Will it cost a percentage of the time already spent? If so, how much?

Help is appreciated.

We’ve been laying low lately, enjoying getting to know all of our new members and taking some time off the recruitment trail. But now we’re ready for round 2 with a brand new tPvP officer, plans to ratchet up our WvW expertise, and baby frogs. Really. Tads.

Come play with us, you’ll like it.

Hey there, and nice to meet you. AI has a great group of people, including several couples. It’s a fun guild, great website, with lots of activities. Check us out:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/guilds/guilds/Alchemy-Incorporated-AI-is-recruiting-on-Sorrows-Furnace-server/first#post19480

If you read that recruitment thread and find you want to join us in spite of it, just give a shout and I’ll get you invitations.

I doubt people who buy low level items from the TP are brand new players. Very likely they’ve been playing for awhile and are buying starting gear for an alt. In this case they can very easily afford the prices you are describing. Sellers are, as is the case for capitalistic societies, charging all the market will bear. Buyers are the ones who truly set pricing. It doesn’t matter how much the seller is asking for if the buyer isn’t forking over the money; with the 5% listing fee sellers have to be very careful about not setting prices frivolously high.

Hey Beachum,

AI has mostly stopped recruiting at this point, but I couldn’t pass up your post. We have a great group of people, and an active website. We are already doing PvE events and outtings, Dungeons, WvW, and last night I managed to lure an experienced sPvP’er into the guild using duck liver and cotton socks; so, I believe we’ll be forming up our sPvP team(s) in the next week or so. You can check out our recruitment thread here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/guilds/guilds/Alchemy-Incorporated-AI-is-recruiting-on-Sorrows-Furnace-and-Gunnars-Hold/first#post390175

If you’re still interested after reading the recruitment thread give me a shout and I’ll get you an invitation.

Thanks,

Aye

Hey Domoto,

Why don’t you stop by and check out our recruitment thread? Although we mostly use our Mumble VoIP for events, outtings and WvW we have a great group of people, an active website, people partying together for basic play and for dungeons. It’s a fun guild.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/guilds/guilds/Alchemy-Incorporated-AI-is-recruiting-on-Sorrows-Furnace-server/first#post19480

I know that AI’s brand of lunacy isn’t for everyone, but if you’re interested after reading that thread please let me know and I’ll get you an invitation.

Hey gman,

It sounds like AI might have what you’re looking for, and we’re even on the Sorrows Furnace server. We usually have between 20 and 30 people on during prime-time and we have a lot of fun goofing off in guild chat, as well as active forums, events and outtings. Check us out here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/guilds/guilds/Alchemy-Incorporated-AI-is-recruiting-on-Sorrows-Furnace-server/first#post19480

If you’re still interested after reading that recruitment post just let us know and someone will shoot you an invitation.

Hey Dragonfire

Work and family before gaming? No way! A-Net needs to start providing a Fahrar for all of these kids that people are so intent on taking care of.

Yeah… you might want to check out AI; we’re happy to see you when you log in, but not busy stressing about where you are the rest of the time — we all have work and family that we stress about instead. It’s a fun group.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/guilds/guilds/Alchemy-Incorporated-AI-is-recruiting-on-Sorrows-Furnace-server/first#post19480

If you you read that recruitment thread and find yourself interested, just give a shout and someone will get you an invitation

It’s a one time use. You build the item for 4 hours and then it goes into your available upgrades list. You can use it immediately or keep it for a weekend, but to have a second usage you have to build a second banner.

Hey Brad, Awesome bio on Deviant Art Nice artwork too.

I’d like to invite you to try out AI. I think you might enjoy it, and from looking at your stuff I’m pretty sure we’d enjoy you. Our recruitment thread is here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/guilds/guilds/Alchemy-Incorporated-AI-is-recruiting-on-Sorrows-Furnace-server/first#post19480

see what you think.

Aye

Edit to add: I hadn’t been to rendorosity when I posted this, but I have to say Contemplating is freaking awesome! That is all.

It sounds like you are wanting to use VoIP quite a bit, and to be honest my guild mostly communicates via guild chat except for WvW or organized outtings. Other than that we sound like a pretty good fit — especially the older/wiser part. Or at least one of those things >.> Anyway, check us out!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/guilds/guilds/Alchemy-Incorporated-AI-is-recruiting-on-Sorrows-Furnace-server/first#post19480

This hasn’t been my experience, but I have used multi-guilding as a selling point in my recruitment post since day one. I also got VERY lucky and hooked a champion recruiter who took it on himself to help me out in the early days. I watched him, learned his tactics and improved my own skills quite a bit.

When I left GW1 our tiny little guild had 5 members that still signed on once in awhile, and 3 who played regularly. From that point, in just a little over a month, we’ve gone to 94 active, vivacious, lively members and I’m enjoying them all very much. This forum is the only place I’ve recruited since launch. Never in town, pugs, or /map.

With multi-guilding I go so far as to encourage players to make AI their “mistress” guild; have a home somewhere else and come visit us when there’s no one around at home. Come in, have a laugh or two, feel free to leave when you’re ready. But so far no one is leaving. They just hang out and keep on laughing.

All in all I believe the players are still out there. It’s just a matter of finding the right ads to pull in the ones you want.

Turpenstein? Google says you might be a giant. Are you a giant?

Would you like to come up for some coffee?

From what I can tell from opening chests the improvement is that they made it more likely to pick up a black lion salvage kit — which is the best item that I’ve personally seen come out of one. I know it was said that they’ve added the permanent contracts, but I sure haven’t seen one, or even heard about anyone else getting one yet.

In Guild Wars 1 AI was a part of a 5 guild alliance. We didn’t farm faction, or try to own a town, the alliance was a social entity with each of the guilds keeping their own unique flavor, but coming together for events and outtings. The alliance kept me playing the game a lot longer than I would have otherwise, and I doubt that I’m the only one.

I am still hoping every day that A-Net will implement alliances like they had in GW1. That one shared chat channel made all of the difference in the world to me. These days I really miss my allies. Sometimes a few of them choose to represent my guild and that’s always nice, sometimes we scoot over and represent one of their guilds, but it’s never the flow of conversation that it used to be between all of us at once. Allowing multiple guilds is nice, but it doesn’t even come close to providing alliances.

What I’m asking for is definitely not shared guild chat — our chat gets raunchy sometimes, and it isn’t something my allies would appreciate. But the separate channel for alliance chat was great. I want it back.

What the devs have said somewhere, and there is no way that I remember where, is that they had wanted to include capes but they clipped too badly with the Charr to implement them. So, they went with armor and backpacks instead. Considering the way the Charr drop to all fours to run it’s easy to imagine the problems.

I would love to hear some word on guild halls though. Having a proper guild hall would be the best.