If they need to do anything with movement speed, it’s to remove that incredibly stupid and pointless speed debuff when in combat. There is no logical reason why being in combat should reduce you to near walking speed.
Perhaps there is no debuff and that is the actual speed with there being a speed bonus if out of combat.
That’s a rather semantic argument, but useless to the actual complaint.
There is a difference in speed between in- and out- of-combat states. Some people don’t like that difference.
Then they should remove the out of combat bonus (if they consider it one) that way there isn’t a disparity.
If they need to do anything with movement speed, it’s to remove that incredibly stupid and pointless speed debuff when in combat. There is no logical reason why being in combat should reduce you to near walking speed.
Perhaps there is no debuff and that is the actual speed with there being a speed bonus if out of combat.
Here’s a question that I’m curious about. Out of all of the people that have an issue with RNG and see that there is a problem, how many actually have an understanding in regards to the basics of probability such as that you would get from a statistics course or petsonal research into the subject?
The thread is about loot. Not just rng. There are many more variables involved in loot, more places for this to go awry. Like I’ve said multiple times, the rng could be working perfectly fine. That does not however mean that loot is. That also does not mean that an unchecked rng derived loot system is a good thing to have in a game.
Almost everyone uses assumes loot when it comes to loot in this game. Almost every single complain thread is about RNG in regards to loot. It’s safe to use both in the same discussion.
What? How can I even respond to that when you use rng alone to counter a point about loot as a whole?
It’s like arguing a car runs fine b/c the gasoline is fine. You can’t omit all the other factors involved in making the car run. Maybe the gas is fine but the fuel injector is clogged. Will the car still run fine? No, ofc not.
I probably could have worded the post better.
People often equate their experience in acquiring loot to RNG. Almost every thread about loot involves a discussion about RNG in one way or another. That’s what I was implying with my previous post. I was trying to give a reason why asking an RNG-related question could be done in this thread. The post before that one was me trying to determine just how much experience that people have with probabilities.
You’re not included in the numbers because just as you said " I Play daily". this is about newer accounts who don’t play as often getting fantastic drops when they do. Why is it no one is understanding age problem isn’t about how many days you’ve had an account but hours played
So let me try to understand this theory. In order for me to be group in category of “lucky” accounts, I need to have the following:
An account I purchased in the past couple months
The account can’t be played daily, or must be played sparingly
If I meet these two criteria, then I’m guaranteed to get good drops on that account?
nothing was ever said about the account being purchased recently. You like the others in this thread are only identifying AGE with days. not time played.
Ok, so I’ll revise the criteria. So if I have an account that’s not played much, then I’m guaranteed to get good drops?
Now you got it. Play your main all the time and stay off your 2nd account for a while and you will definitely see improvement in loot when you next play it.
I did that with one of my alt accounts and didn’t see as good drops. I guess my account is bugged?
2 or 3 days wont work. i has to be substantial. Now you gonna say " it was weeks" or “Months”
right?
You’re not included in the numbers because just as you said " I Play daily". this is about newer accounts who don’t play as often getting fantastic drops when they do. Why is it no one is understanding age problem isn’t about how many days you’ve had an account but hours played
So let me try to understand this theory. In order for me to be group in category of “lucky” accounts, I need to have the following:
An account I purchased in the past couple months
The account can’t be played daily, or must be played sparingly
If I meet these two criteria, then I’m guaranteed to get good drops on that account?
nothing was ever said about the account being purchased recently. You like the others in this thread are only identifying AGE with days. not time played.
Ok, so I’ll revise the criteria. So if I have an account that’s not played much, then I’m guaranteed to get good drops?
Now you got it. Play your main all the time and stay off your 2nd account for a while and you will definitely see improvement in loot when you next play it.
I did that with one of my alt accounts and didn’t see as good drops. I guess my account is bugged?
Here’s a question that I’m curious about. Out of all of the people that have an issue with RNG and see that there is a problem, how many actually have an understanding in regards to the basics of probability such as that you would get from a statistics course or petsonal research into the subject?
The thread is about loot. Not just rng. There are many more variables involved in loot, more places for this to go awry. Like I’ve said multiple times, the rng could be working perfectly fine. That does not however mean that loot is. That also does not mean that an unchecked rng derived loot system is a good thing to have in a game.
Almost everyone uses assumes loot when it comes to loot in this game. Almost every single complain thread is about RNG in regards to loot. It’s safe to use both in the same discussion.
Here’s a question that I’m curious about. Out of all of the people that have an issue with RNG and see that there is a problem, how many actually have an understanding in regards to the basics of probability such as that you would get from a statistics course or petsonal research into the subject?
5 is not a big enough sample. 50 isn’t a big enough sample. Even 100 isn’t a big enough sample.
Re-read the post.its a start. 10>50>100>10000 right now 10 is manageable
Let’s assume that the sample size of 10 overwhelmingly shows that RNG is behaving like it should. Would you stop and accept the results as credible or would you expand the sample size?
How about the same question but instead you had gotten results that overwhelmingly showed that RNG was behaving incorrectly amongst the sample size of 10?
Perhaps the first step is that all those participating should read up on the basics regarding probability. It’s helps to have a foundational knowledge about this when interpreting results.
Really? Just 5 or 10 accounts will give reputable evidence? It does not seem likely, to me, but, of course, I am no expert.
If we get more that would be even better, but managing 5-10 accounts at a time is far easier then say 30.
Except that’s not enough to provide reliable results.
How many accounts were involved in the data that showed there was a problem with ecto salvaging? I can remember one person posting his data, but I don’t know if anyone else did.
This isn’t about proving anything, its about providing enough information to back up the claims and convince the devs to investigate because they have far more data to work with but need a reason to look at it.
It was the salvage rate and had nothing to do with accounts. That poster just needed a large enough sample size of salvage results to present their case to open the discussion. Very much different than what people are trying to accomplish here as people are arguing that there’s a difference between accounts. This requires a large number accounts as well as a large number of attempts due to the various drop rates which tend to be rather low.
I doubt that theres such a way of crafting up to 200 since as far as I know gw2crafts.net uses an algorithm to find the best deal to craft your way up and that deal always costs gold.
It may still be possible for people to craft to 200 cooking without a net loss. There were some recipes that produced a profit but I’m not sure what their status is as of now. I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t be able to handle people mass farming and flooding the market with them. Bowl of Vegetable Stock was one of those recipes.
I got mine as a drop from one of the dusts or devours that attack Haze during his escort event in Dry Top just an hour ago. Most of this week I was trying to get the portal in The Silverwastes but got burned out on that zone and wanted to finish collecting the recipes for the amber weapons from DT.
Pretty much where I got both of mine. Assuming that the drop rate is the same across both drops and event chests, people are better off farming Dry Top or at the very least during the sandstorms.
If you did world completion then that alt will get the max number of hero points as it’s 400 points for being level 80 then however many skill challenges your char did. Since you already did them all, you will have them done.
Using scrolls at this point will put then in your hero panel and those will be converted into the new Mystic Forge currency.
I have 9 world completions and they still have their spare skill points. So if they’re converted to hero points, can they only be used in the forge? Because it seems like they might be useless to me if that is the case.
Although if it is the case, I guess it’s no great loss as they’re useless as spares anyway.
Might be good if you could use them for something else as well as.
Skill points will not be converted to hero points.
Going back to what it started with is that I said depending on the drop-rate the average number of runs could be exactly the same as the required number of runs that you would need when using a currency system.
In fact, that is exactly what a drop-rate is. A drop-rate of 1-250 mean on average is will drop once every 250 runs.
You could be a little bid ‘lucky’ and it could drop sooner, or ‘unlucky’ and it would drop later but in the end there is no such real thing as ‘bad luck’, it’s just math.
Arguing the random average is fine if the distribution isn’t all over the place. With incredibly low drop chances you can be kitten sure it’s going to be all over the place. Guess how unreasonably low the droprate for the really the valuable stuff is.
When someone’s been playing the game for years and has never found a precursor, while someone playing for a week at lv 80 finds one, you can’t make the argument oh sometimes you’re a little lucky and sometimes you’re a little unlucky. The system is bogus and far too unfair.
Be very careful as what you’re saying is pretty much the gambler’s fallacy. Someone who has played the lottery for 50 years has the same probability of winning the next one as someone who has just started. You also need to consider the aggregate results across the entire population rather than specific data points (e.g. Between two players).
This is based off your second paragraph which gave me this impression.
That you did not like those numbers or did not get them, does not make them incorrect. I will not go into those calculations again as Anet seems to close threads if too many hard facts and numbers run over the screen.
Care to point in a direction where those numbers might actually be and the sources for your numbers? It’s quite daunting to sift through so many pages just to find your logic.
He’s referring to their earnings report except he missed something very important that invalidates his argument.
They’ve stated that skill points will be converted to the new mystic forge currency. The skill challenges will be called hero challenges or something like that. If you’re already completed them then you won’t have to do them again. They stated this either the blog, the presentation on Twitch, or both.
You can get 55 laurels every 28 days. You will eventually come to a point like all of us where you have no other use for them other than to convert them to gold. Doing achievements also nets you laurels although it’s not really worth actively doing.
The problem with that is do the math on getting enough for all the ascended recipes you want to make for your alts and a set of ascended jewelry for each alt – let’s say the alt number is 8 (one of each class, which is common). That is too long a time to reasonably gear up for these items.
Let’s say you throw out ascended recipes altogether. That’s still too slowly to reasonably gear up each character with 5 trinkets each.
We all had to do this and slowly build up laurels. I see no reason why newer players should have it differently than older ones. The great thing about ascended is that it is account bound.
The skill challenges in WvW will be changed to hero challenges or whatever it is that they’re calling them once the update is released. WvW players will still be able to get the new equivalent of skill points for progression in the new system just like they would in PvE.
Still they don’t count today, so they might have to be repeated when the new system hits and still it’s only 13.
My personal opinion is that bad players are bad regardless of the build that they use. Players are bad primarily because of a low skill level which generally improves as they play. Cookie cutter builds tend to be the optimal builds for a certain class and play style. Some have a higher learning curve than others.
When it come to mainhand dagger thieves I know whether or not the cookie cutter builds made some mistakes and they do. It’s not the optimized builds – at least not what I see as cookie cutter builds nowadays. So, these builds are made by humans who made mistakes and that’s fine, I use my cookie cutter builds to start from there (although all I ever do is play thief) but I think everybody should at least have a fair chance to create their own builds without a hassle as by that they can test each skill and trait by trial and error, just like I did.
Players can tests skills in heart of the mists and decide upon themselves whether they’d be worth using or not.
Alright: “You want to play wvw? forget it, do pvp -with the sole purpose to test skills as you can’t afford them no matter what you do, except if you do pve!”
But I guess you just refuse to get my point, so no matter what I write here you’ll always reply that there’s an “easy solution” to this, which in reality isn’t a solution.
Whether or not a skill challenge currently counts towards world completion has no bearing as to whether they will or will not count towards the new trait revamp. Those are two entirely separate things. Since they’re converted skill challenges to hero challenges, it’s safe to assume it’s all of them until they state otherwise. There’s really no reason to not include the others and there will surely be plenty more skill…. Er. Hero challenges with the expansion.
Players can test builds in HotM which is what many of us did prior to retraiting becoming free. Players do not need every single trait and utility available immediately when they can easily figure out which ones they’ll never use and not need to spend points on. If they absolutely need everything unlocked, they can spend the couple hours at most doing the skill/hero challenges.
I’m not telling them to do PvP. Heart of the Mists is a great way to test out builds. There are mjnir differences due to how things are treated differently in PvP but not so much that you cannot get a reasonable conclusion on whether a build will be good for you with what you’re trying to accomplish with it. You have to remember that WvW is not a closed off game type like PvP is.
You can get 55 laurels every 28 days. You will eventually come to a point like all of us where you have no other use for them other than to convert them to gold. Doing achievements also nets you laurels although it’s not really worth actively doing.
WvW players are only short like maybe 50ish skill points. Do people really need every single trait/ability unlocked immediately? I have many abilities across all of my characters that I do not even use such as the racials. The same goes for many of the traits.
You can get 13 SP in wvw which may or may not count as Skill Points since wvw map completion had been taken out completely.
And yeah, everybody in this game should be able to play like they want, I always assumed that was the idea behind the scrolls.
On the one hand anet wants pvp and wvw to be played on the other hand they force these players to do pve.
And it’s one thing if you don’t use any skills you already have and another to not even being able to test them because you can’t get them. That leads to cookie cutter builds and that usually leads to bad players (no offense, I’m using cookie cutter builds myself).
The skill challenges in WvW will be changed to hero challenges or whatever it is that they’re calling them once the update is released. WvW players will still be able to get the new equivalent of skill points for progression in the new system just like they would in PvE.
My personal opinion is that bad players are bad regardless of the build that they use. Players are bad primarily because of a low skill level which generally improves as they play. Cookie cutter builds tend to be the optimal builds for a certain class and play style. Some have a higher learning curve than others.
Players can tests skills in heart of the mists and decide upon themselves whether they’d be worth using or not. The only except would be racials as those are not accessible there. Most racials have very little use and the ones that do are only for specific situations. The point that I’m making is that players do not need to farm the extra 65 challenges if there are traits/utilities that they know that they will never use.
in my honest opinion, skill books was an error. they never expected so much champ runs, they admited that with bloodstone dust.
skill challenges was supposed to be the easiest/fastest method for obtaining skill points, followed by leveling.
Then they did a pretty bad job with that as all I’m doing is roaming in wvw (no champs there) and the occassional dungeon and I have tons of SP rolls – which I need though for crafting ascended gear, legendaries and superior siege. So if SP challenges alone were supposed to be the only income of SP (besides lvl up after 80) all of this wouldn’t work.
so now they are separating the two resources. hero points only for skills, with a finite number, and no reason not to fully unlock, and djingots for post 80 item progression/gold
It is a “better” idea with two hinderances: wvw and pvp, there really are people who don’t do pve. So it’s not “Play like you want” but “Play like we want” and that’s the problem here. It’s one thing if people create a character after HoT and need to do this stuff, another to “take them away” what they basically already did. And that’s the point.
Although someone just said that nothing will be taken away and I’m a bit confused anyway, so maybe all works out. Still pvp and wvw are the stepchildren yet again.
WvW players are only short like maybe 50ish skill points. Do people really need every single trait/ability unlocked immediately? I have many abilities across all of my characters that I do not even use such as the racials. The same goes for many of the traits.
I just did world completion (well except for two remaining zones) all of last week. None of the skill point challenges are locked behind events and this is my 7th time doing world completion. I actually did Fireheart Rise last Friday and had zero issues.
Out of curiously, which skill point was locked behind an event?
South of Simurgh Timberland, I think. No it’s Noxious Castrum – the event is up on EU right now. It was behind walls and you needed to do the event (which luckily was just up) to destroy the walls. And then you had to kill a bunch of mobs.
Edit: And basically alot of skillpoints are locked behind events: Skillpoints at temples, behind champs etc. You can always try to stealth your way around but still it takes some effort.
Edit²: This also for phys – didn’t realize you two were asking the same question and wanted to answer his and quoted you..
Edit³: Maybe some nice people did the event before you got there – but I can assure you that there was no way to that SP without doing the event.
I’ll have to look closely at that but you can break the walls as mentioned or jump over them. I’ll have to wait until tonight to check that specific one.
None of the skill points are locked behind events, champs, or temples. I’ve gotten every one of them solo on 7 characters now. The Grenth one may be an issue but temples are frequently claimed that it’s not a problem. Chanps can be distracted by other players, pets, summons, etc. There are items that you can use that help you avoid them as well.
This not not my guide but I did use it for the majority of doing world completion on my 7th character. I had leveled my other characters doing world completion and this guide is way more efficient. I was completing most maps in between 60-90 minutes depending in their size and terrain. Lornar’s took the longest.
I will put the disclaimer that the guide is slightly outdated as it was done before many of the maps had changed slightly due to the Living Story. The differences were very small and limited to only a few maps. The NPE also affected the placements of some hearts but I didn’t have to go out of my way when following the designated route.
For those that need the 65+ skill points for the upcoming trait system, I suggest doing the starter zones and possibly Orr. The starter zones are easier to navigate and everything dies incredibly fast. Orr is great as there’s no hearts and all of the skill points can be done solo with some classes (thief) having an easier time than others. If you skip Orr, do the level 15-25 zones. It should not take more than a couple hours to get 65 skill points if you focus on just them.
you never have to wait for a skill point, if someone else is doing it, you can join in.
having to play your charachter for 3-5 hours before reaching maximum power level really isnt that crazy an idea.
Oh.. ok, so I was doing a skillpoint yesterday it was in fireheart rise and locked behind an event, I had to do 3/4 of the event before that skillpoint became accessible. that was about 15 mins.
Also when the mob had just been killed you have to wait around 30 s for it to be up again, so yeah, you have to wait.
On topic: I’m getting all my characters to 65 SP challenges – it’s okayish and with some I wanted to do that anyway. But it is grindy (6 characters for me) and given that a lot of us have suffered the trait system the past year it’s a further disappointment – of course it’s way less grindy than the trait system but I somehow want an acknowledgement that leveling characters under the current system is a pain in the kitten .
I just did world completion (well except for two remaining zones) all of last week. None of the skill point challenges are locked behind events and this is my 7th time doing world completion. I actually did Fireheart Rise last Friday and had zero issues.
Out of curiously, which skill point was locked behind an event?
I know, and the problem is.. that I did not say this, or anything close to this.
I said grind is always optional because the game is optional. I did not say, the game is optional so there is no grind:S. My whole argument here is that the grind is bad so why would I say there is no grind?:S
Except what you’re saying is false. Whether a game is optional or not had absolutely no bearing on whether the grind within the game is optional or not. Neither influences the other.
Those are people botting/exploiting. It’s not the same as void jumping as you normally don’t gain an advantage other than the chance to explore the map further. I would personally email them about.
There is DR if you only do a world boss on a particular character and nothing else inbetween attempts. So if you have one character parked at Teq and do not do anything else with it, you’ll eventually encounter that DR. Many players have also seen this with Rhendak in Diessa.
Required grind does not exist in a game because a game is optional.
I’m sorry but that’s inaccurate and flawed reasoning. Stating a game is optional has no bearing as to whether content locked behind a repetitive method of acquisition is in fact a grind or not.
Think of it in another way. Let’s say that in order for players to even start the game, they have to left click 1 million times. Then upon each level they get, they have to left click another 1 million times. All of this clicking is in order to progress in the game. Now by your argument, this game contains no grind because that game is optional.
I understand that there are people that tend to use the “game is optional” argument but it is flawed. Anything that is optional can still have grind that is required in order to experience some or all of the content within.
“I’m sorry but that’s inaccurate and flawed reasoning.” No it’s not.
“Stating a game is optional has no bearing as to whether content locked behind a repetitive method of acquisition is in fact a grind or not.” You are completely right. But making this out of what I said is flawed reasoning.
I simply said it was by definition not ‘required’. I do not talk about content being locked behind something. Not to mention that ‘content’ can be explained in many ways. Collecting those cosmetics is also considered ‘content’ by many and that is locked behind a repetitive method of acquisition. What makes in double flawed.
“Let’s say that in order for players to even start the game, they have to left click 1 million times.” While this would come the closes to definition of ‘required’ in a game it’s a completely unrealistic example (I don’t know any game where you would need to grind before you would be able to get into the game itself).
“Then upon each level they get, they have to left click another 1 million times.” That is only ‘if’ you want to get to the second level. There is always stuff you can do at level 1 and maybe that’s just fine for you. Getting to the next level is always a choice.
“Now by your argument, this game contains no grind because that game is optional.” Wait whut? I did not say it was not grind, I said it was not required! That is something else! What btw does not make it any better, let me also be clear about that.
The problem is that some people tent to consider grind to reach their personal goals as ‘required’ grind while the grind other people need to do to achieve their goals as optional grind they choose to do.
“Anything that is optional can still have grind that is required in order to experience some or all of the content within.” Yes, I never said this was not the case. In fact, that is my point. All grind is optional, that does not make one type of grind worse than another type of grind by definition. It’s a personal thing. It’s bad for you if it locks what you want.
I was not talking about the type of grind that either exists or doesn’t exist in this game. What I was talking about was your usage of the argument that because a game is optional, there is no grind whether it be optional or required. This is incorrect.
Just experienced this same thing a minute ago except I didn’t leave the map. I went to the character select screen for a bit and when I came back on, I was on the opposite corner of the map that I had never been to.
Required grind does not exist in a game because a game is optional.
I’m sorry but that’s inaccurate and flawed reasoning. Stating a game is optional has no bearing as to whether content locked behind a repetitive method of acquisition is in fact a grind or not.
Think of it in another way. Let’s say that in order for players to even start the game, they have to left click 1 million times. Then upon each level they get, they have to left click another 1 million times. All of this clicking is in order to progress in the game. Now by your argument, this game contains no grind because that game is optional.
I understand that there are people that tend to use the “game is optional” argument but it is flawed. Anything that is optional can still have grind that is required in order to experience some or all of the content within.
That kind of sucks then cause that means my guardian dps build is getting nerfed (though probably not intended) and i hope other zerk guardians speak up to this. we will not be able to take the two primary trees for dps and still get the bonus from retributive armor and unscathed contender. Really hope this doesn’t get over looked guardians have had a hard enough time in the past with the huge hit to our HP.
So here’s a question. How do you know that the stats from the trait lines will be distributed differently between exotic and ascended? For all we know the same amount added to ascended will be the same amount added to ascended. If they went that route then the stat difference remains unchanged.
I’m not excited about it. From what I hear, the changes are much more radical than I anticipated. Trying to relearn all this AND do new (supposedly harder) content is going to be interesting at least.
I couldn’t listen to the stream but someone on reddit said that this new system was coming out before the expansion.
Yeah, but it also says that if a character has world completion done then they’ll have enough to unlock everything. I don’t want to do world completion again. It was PAINFULLY BORING. So much so I did it once two years ago and haven’t done anything close to it since. That’s how painful it was. Hopefully the 465 pts will be enough to unlock the traits I need for DPS builds so I won’t have to do any map completion.
You don’t have to complete the world. Just the skill challenges. No hearts, pois, vistas, or wp’s required. Being level 80 plus doing about 65 skill challenges gets you everything but the Elite spec, and further skill challenges get you that. I think it was 35 points or so for a full trait unlock? So 110 skills done on top of level 80 and you have all you need.
I do wonder how future Elite Specs will work if the challenges run out.
We’ll likely have more zones and they’ll just include those.
So assuming I read Dulfy’s notes correctly, players who are already level 80 will only have to farm out 65 skill point (hero) challenges to get back to where they are now? Not really all that bad and especially since this doesn’t take into consideration for any skill point challenges completed already.
I’m not sure if it’s working, but you could try to bind clicks to your mouse wheel scroll.
Have never tried it, but should speed things up. I’m pretty sure that it’s okay, even though “every action = 1 key” is pretty hard to interpret for something like a wheel scroll…
That’s still a huge amount of scrolling though. The point I was trying to make is that if obsidian shards received a QoL update that made it easier to purchase, sun beas should receive the same update too.
It goes very quick and will only take a few minutes at most. I completed the one achievement where you needed to consume 100K alcoholic drinks this way. I forget the program I used but I bound both the forward and back scroll wheel to register as a left click. I then just moved the wheel back and forth very quickly and could purchase a stack in about 30 seconds if not less.
Exactly what do you use them for if not the mystic forge?
Well, currently you use them for skills of course. But this will change – they will be worthless and you’ll be given piles of mats for the forge. Which some players will never use, or have no interest in. What do they do? Personally I think you should be given options to get other things.
There are only so many skills to spend them on. If you aren’t doing anything with those excess now this change is basically irrelevant since excess would be useless both before and after.
Yeah, that’s what I was getting at with the OP. If they have tons of skill points then they’re not really using them.
