Guild Wars 2

Warrior

If you want a class that puts a lot of work and effort and still remain Op, this is the right class for you.

Thief

If you want a class that puts no effort or work whatsoever and still remain OP, than this is the class for you.

-Reap and Reward Class- > Warrior

" Before the reward there must be labor. You plant before you harvest "

-Reward than Reap Class- > Thief

" Before the labor, reap the reward. Harvest before you plant "

OP, I leave the Truth in your hand,

You decide→

Necrotize.2974:

Burnfall.9573:

Necrotize.2974:

The more this goes on though I’m realizing arguing this is a lost cause. Just from glancing at your recent posts Burnfall, you seem to have some delusional idea that thieves should “play fair” by not using stealth and that all thieves are ruthless, child eating monsters. Just copying a description from the thief wiki,

“Thieves are expert in the shadow arts. They utilize stealth and shadowsteps to surprise and to get close to their target. They’re deadly in one-on-one combat using their agility, acrobatic fighting style, and the ability to steal to overcome their enemies. They have an affinity for setting traps and using venom”

What, if anything, about that description would suggest to you that thieves are supposed to be “fair” fighters. This is the type of class that utilizes tricks, traps and other forms of underhanded skills to gain an edge or throw their opponent for a loop. But ya, I’m sure we should just nerf all those skills and turn thieves into low hp, low armor class with the mobility of a necromancer who couldn’t maneuver their way out of a paper bag.

please! take a look at this and explain to me what “skills” do thieves have and use?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTSlULPN768

You really do enjoy videos don’t you. Then I’m sure noticed the intro where he said, and I quote “the following video contains strategies that only work against people who are terrible at this game”. Heartseeker spam is hardly effective play, especially since the auto attack does more dps above 50% health anyway. Terrible players will get hit by the thief then start trying to run away. All you really accomplish by doing that is giving them an easy backstab. But you know, heartseeker spam in a video over a year old against terrible players must prove you’re right.

Maybe instead of scouring youtube for videos of thieves you should actually articulate your arguments yourself. It would definitely make it seem more convincing than just posting any video you can find with a thief killing people. But I suppose you’ll respond with yet another video that I won’t need to watch because honestly 90% of people who play thieves have seen those videos already.

Edit:Just saw the second video you posted. I’m guessing you also missed the part where he was laughing and pointed out it was a zerg full of uplevels. I don’t think a single video you’ve posted refutes any of the points anyone makes, it just shifts the conversation to yet another topic so you can post even more videos.

First of all; any, every thieves players are entitled to post their game play videos on youtube anytime they want, as much they want

What law prevents them from doing so?
What rule prevent them from doing so?
Why are you offended of them doing so?
Why are you restricting them from doing so?
They are Free to post any video of their game play they please, and want
Are they under an Enslavement and Tyrannic ruling ?
Why do you want to take away their Rights?
Why do you want to take away their Freedom?
Are they “less of a player” for posting their game play videos on you tube?

Second of all, the reason why they are laughing and mocking the other classes.. why not ?

Isn’t that what thieves do anyways for being an almost zero skill, no risk, high rewardspam Op class?

I would do just the same, if i was them.

Necrotize.2974:

The more this goes on though I’m realizing arguing this is a lost cause. Just from glancing at your recent posts Burnfall, you seem to have some delusional idea that thieves should “play fair” by not using stealth and that all thieves are ruthless, child eating monsters. Just copying a description from the thief wiki,

“Thieves are expert in the shadow arts. They utilize stealth and shadowsteps to surprise and to get close to their target. They’re deadly in one-on-one combat using their agility, acrobatic fighting style, and the ability to steal to overcome their enemies. They have an affinity for setting traps and using venom”

What, if anything, about that description would suggest to you that thieves are supposed to be “fair” fighters. This is the type of class that utilizes tricks, traps and other forms of underhanded skills to gain an edge or throw their opponent for a loop. But ya, I’m sure we should just nerf all those skills and turn thieves into low hp, low armor class with the mobility of a necromancer who couldn’t maneuver their way out of a paper bag.

please! take a look at this and explain to me what “skills” do thieves have and use?

and this one…

Rottaran Owain.6789:

Burnfall.9573:

To Splatter Paw,

" "Each class has good ways of fending off a thiefs initial burst and then taking the advantage* "

Please demonstrate this wonder (in video format), where each class has a good way of fending off thieves initial bursts.

Also

Please explain these to me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCX372Pic4o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=879m6bAxpNo
Thanks!

Since those videos have been made, assassin’s signet has been nerfed so hard into the ground that I haven’t seen anyone using it in months, mug has been nerfed to never crit, and cloak and dagger took a 33% damage nerf. Oh, the elite is also stun-breakable now, making it only useful for use with runes of lyssa.

Can’t wait for you to reply back trying to invalidate my post based on me not having a video off-hand.

Ok

(Thieves are always in denial, even when presented with the Truth) common thieves! make my dream come truth; admit you are OP

Here the Truth, with Proof

Truth

The Nerf to Assassin was released in October 22, 2012
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Update-Notes-October-22-2012

" Assassin’s Signet: This skill has been updated to grant 15% damage for 5 attacks rather than 50% damage for one attack "

The video was posted on Feb 2, 2013
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=879m6bAxpNo

The video was posted on Dec 8, 2013
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCX372Pic4o

Any more validation to the Truth??

To Splatter Paw,

" "Each class has good ways of fending off a thiefs initial burst and then taking the advantage* "

Please demonstrate this wonder (in video format), where each class has a good way of fending off thieves initial bursts.

Also

Please explain these to me.

Thanks!

Well done! Swagg,

The first class i switch after witnessing the truth of the ranger future, is necromancer. Sincerely, i have no regrets whatsoever. In fact, i regretted ever choosing the ranger class and devoting my time, energy with the ranger class.. to begin with.

I adore this class in many ways. At most; this is what the Ranger class could have been.

Anything to help improve the necromancer class; i’m totally all for it.

Incoming Injustice

What is saddening, whenever an innocent capable class does their best, whenever an innocent capable class seek the path of humility; they are instantly targeted for Punishment/Unjust Nerfs.

Is it a crime to be humble?
Is it a crime to be simple?
Is it a crime to be lowly?
Is it a crime to be docile?
Is it a crime to be yourself?

For once; let Necromancer class be, leave them alone.

Identity

Help them find their Identity.

As the saying goes,

" What we know matters but who we are matters more ”

MidoriMarch.8067:

MADAIR.1948:

I am SO tired of thieves being overpowered. Did you know they have a trait that lets them regenerate hp while in stealth? Well I’m sick of it. As a thief if you’re not skilled enough to not get hit by conditions, melee and ranged attacks then you should suffer for it. If you can’t survive without having heals then you need to L2P and I believe giving them stealth regen is just rewarding that kind of gameplay.

Another issue I have is that alot of thieves who go 30 into shadow arts have access to traits that remove conditions and cause blinds. If all they had was shadow step for removal and say smokescreen for blinds it would require much more skillful gameplay and also would be more rewarding, requiring them to take almost 0 hits or conditions. Without the regen, condi strip, and blinds in shadow arts they have plenty of other GREAT traits that get overlooked like Power Shots and Patience or they could go into Acrobatics and take awesome traits like Hard to Catch or Assassin’s retreat.

I run a Hammer- mace/shield Warrior with Perplexity runes and when I fight thieves with shadow arts they just strip my confusion stacks with well times shadow steps and stealths and then I die. When I DO kill them it takes WAY longer then it should.

Anyway my main points I’m trying to get across here is that Shadow Arts needs some major nerfs and the thief class needs to require more skill like the Warrior class. Ty for your time.

LOL from a warrior saying thieves are op rofl

and btw thieves require way more skills than OP warriors

more likely l2p issue seems like u’ve got pwned by thieves so bad

L2P op warriors

Honestly, there’s nothing funny about it, seriously!

The only 2 class that can complain about each other Overpowerdness, is Thief and Warrior.

The only difference between these classes are; one have stealth, the other have high Hp.

That’s pretty much it.

So….all complaints on both side are valid

Wintel.4873:

It’s true, any other class running a glassy build will auto-lose to a glassy thief. It’s extremely hard to kill something that is stunning/blinding you and stealthing away the moment you have a chance to retaliate.

Thief is the only class that can get away using a glassy build in PvP and still have plenty of survivability.

People need to stop with the braindead reply of “stealth can’t capture points”, it’s not about capturing points, it’s about roaming and causing unbalanced fights. Also having a guaranteed stomp on 5 out of 8 classes with blind field adds further to their effectiveness.

You are absolutely correct.
Not forgetting how useless our down-skills are to them as well; once they go into stealth.

It make me question, wonder.. who is directing the Class Balance team at Arena.net??.

Seriously!!

i do really want to know?

Warriors have high HP and High Damages+High Bursts already; buffing Thief and Elementalist HP would result them in the same category.

Cause they too have same High Damages+High Bursts…

There’s enough outcry concerning warriors Overpowerd HP, so why add these 2 classes to make it worse?

Seriously,

I don’t get it??

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Nerfing overpowered skills.
Buffing underpowered skills.
Changing useless skills.

We could discuss wether this is lazy balancing. But I think a lot of things have to be taken into account. When you buff Backstab to do more damage for example:

• Low armor classes survivability die for a bit
• Low health classes die for a bit
• Build diversity changes toward Backstab oriented builds
• Some amulets and Runes/Insignia’s become less usefull
• Amount of ways to enter stealth may become OP

The amount of depth thats put into this game is making balancing way harder. Anet has the forums for feedback, and has a system to record skill usage (I read that somewere before gw2 launch). But this game will always be a bit of rock paper scissors depending on what game mode you are playing.

If I were a developer, I would first balance out all professions in a 1v1 situation. Because in the long run if you want 10 Thiefs to be equally effective at anything than 10 Necro’s, the basic damage of 1 Thief should be balanced with the health of 1 Necromancer for example. Then I would look at 2v2 situations comparing what combo’s can be made.

The only thing that should sepperate professions apart should be the style. A guardian should be able to resist and regenerate as much damage as a Thief could evade/heal up.
The spike damage a Warrior could inflict should be equal to the sustained damage of a Ranger. And the other way around.

This post turns out a little long to explain my way of thinking.

In short:
Damage x Time > Healing x Time
( 10 dmg per 10 seconds should kill someone regaining 5 health within 20 seconds ) ( kill someone regaining 2 health within 50 seconds)
So healing shouldn’t be more powerfull than damage otherwise players would never die. But the player should have enough utilities to compensate his healing. So if a player regaining 5 health dies within 10 seconds, he either needs a more powerfull heal. Or some way to mitigate damage to reach close to 20 seconds.

I might be totally wrong but this is how I feel they should balance GW2

You said it right! no need to be un-certain. Unfortunately, the game-class/s, is totally opposite of everything you mention.

Why do you see un-balance everywhere?

Why do you see 84%-91% of threads and posts are ‘up in arms’ concerning un-balances?

Obviously ….

Buffing thieves health pool and un-buffing their damages+stealths is the better solution.

Common Sense > Reality

Although re-designing thief class altogether and getting rid of all “balance” theatrics and dramas, would be much better solution, but after 1 year+7 months of constant “nerfs” , i don’t see that ever happening.

RedSpectrum.1975:

As a thief, it’s expected that when we fight, it involving ducking in and out of combat either by stealth or actual distance to re-engage, but that statement can be considered too general I suppose. As a thief, do you fight your battles with “honor”? Only attacking when it’s convenient for both you and your opponent and fighting till the very last bit of hp, or do you use every trick in your book…or utility bar, to keep the fight going as long as it takes for you to win, even going as far as playing dirty enough to lure enemies to a field advantage with mobs or constant resetting til you claim the victory? Essentially, do you agree or disagree with the thread’s title?

I’m not a thief but i would like to add some comment. By the way, i really like the title and subject of the thread/

Looking at the amount of replies in the thread, it’s obvious almost no one embraces Thiefs’ Honor approach.

This is what we the other classes need, an Honorable, Sympathetic, Compassionate thief but unfortunately due to their programming to sadistically and maliciously auto kill everyone who they come accross, make it hard to find one who will make you feel your worth.

Rarely i would come across one or two, who would remorse me in my weakening state and escort me safety so no one won’t kill me.

I encourage more thieves to be honorable, sympathetic and compassionate to their enemies.

After all,

we had no choice or control in our programming and our design

we were programmed and designed to be weak, killed by you.

so..

Try and see how much a difference it will be.. to you and us.

also,

never forget….

“ Honor bright! Fair play is a jewel! "

Ranger and Thief.

Both ranger and thief are in serious need of a complete redesign.

Zero Day.2594:

Imagi.4561:

Judging from the build he posted, I’d have to say that thread is just a troll.

Yeah more then likely… But some of the more serious ones i would have thought they were trolls too (chocking gas, 1st page)… Either way all nerfs are welcome!

I’m glad you understand the hardship and the unfairness we (other classes) are going through with thief out of control, outrageous, notorious design, mechanics.

thanks for not being in denial of the Truth

“Doubt, indulged and cherished, is in danger of becoming denial; but if honest, and bent on thorough investigation, it may soon lead to full establishment of the truth”.

i remember this one back in the good old days, " Thief 19.8k Backstab critic"

Since than. how much damage thief can do?

Is it more or less-so-called “nerf”?

If less….

Please! provide patch date of proof

-thanks-

Notice November 2012 patch.

Where their damage is “nerfed”

1.Tactical Strike: This skill’s damage has been increased by 10% in all formats. This skill’s daze duration has been reduced from 2 seconds to 1.5 seconds in PvP.
2. Cluster Shot: This skill’s damage is reduced by 15% in PvP.
3. Cloak and Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 33% in PvP only.

Obviously,

you see what i see…

There goes thief balance.

There goes thiefs’ Future.

PVP

seriously,

(who does pvp for the sake of balance?)

hihey.1075:

Ok, this is it.
I was solo roaming in WvW with my ele. I don’t usually have many problems killing stuff: coyotes, skelks, yaks, and sentries go down really fast and don’t cause much problems.

However, everytime I find a thief, no matter what, I just die. And the problem is, I can’t even see him!
I just go around, then bam! Dead! I got hit by 18k spikes out of nowhere. And when I see the thief in front of me and I manage to avoid his attack, he will just go in stealth in another gimmicky way and backstab me from behind! I can’t even use my heal, because his burst is on a 0s CD!

For reference, this is my build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEEQJAodnEElXbdN6GQYrAhcIDDHIgxBQQkittenHiBA-jkxAYrAm8KiGbLoIasKJMVJRUtToIa1yAYPCA-w

I seriously hope Anet will fix stealth because at the moment it’s just too much. I get killed sometimes by zerker rangers, but at least I can see them and if I get killed it’s because they are good (their bear hits really hard and must require a lot of micromanagement to be effective!). But when it comes to thieves, it’s just 0 risk, 101% reward, go stealth kill people #yolomode

Very well said

You are the million player to confirm and experience this outrageousness class design.

So the next question is.

How many more years will it take for our concerns to be heard and addressed ?

4+ years ??

I say 10+ years

whose with me?

Maugetarr.6823:

MonMalthias.4763:

how would you bring Thief down in such a way to let other Glass cannons have a place? How would you bring Thief up to let it stay in the fight longer and pose a threat to tanky DPS or Bunkers?

You don’t need to bring them down. Beating thieves comes down to knowledge of both your class and the thief class, and a bit of practice. To really be a threat to bunkers, LS needs to steal 2 boons, but have its damage halved or more so you choose between the evasion/boonsteal and damage, and using LS restarts the damage from the AA chain encouraging the use of endurance dodges rather than weapon skill dodges.

Here is what I mean by knowledge of both your class and the thief:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74Ad1CnN1vI

If you skip to about 3 minutes he starts fighting against several thieves in a row as a glassy build. Keeping calm and knowing what to do and when goes a long way against thieves

(Thanks to Joe for posting this in the mesmer forum. He’s a good player)
As for making eles viable again, they need to just revert some of the nerfs they’ve done, not bring the thief down.

Maugetarr,

First of all, not every class have access to clones and stealth.

You do realize if that mesmer did not use clones, he/she would’ve long been dead correct?

In other word,

your suggestion and advice only belong to the Mesmer class.

Remove clones and stealth from a Mesmer and and redo that same video and see how long t the mesmer will last against the thief.

My Suggestion; give all class access to stealth and clones, than we all can give suggestions and advices to fighting thieves.

OP-Swagg,

I’ve been following your work for some time and i want to say, that i’m impressed by your wonderful creativity ideas about class balance. Many times i almost believe you are a undercover Arena.net dev (wish so) who is in the interest of Balancing the classes and the game.

Now it’s the thief class; you are absolutely on point with everything you stated about this Outrageous OP class design, mechanic and its one-direction philosophy.

For the past 1 year+6 months, yet no consideration, accommodation in listening to, in resolving their community concerns.

It it so obvious they will continue to ignore, and take no action toward their community and its player base concerns.

As one told me, “to know the Truth, is to know it’s history”. 1 Year+6months is enough history.

Encouragement+ Blessing

Swagg i encourage you to not give up your wonderful ideas and creativity concerning Class Balance and Bad Class Designs/ OP Class/s.

I’m sure a MMO company who believe in the same ideas, philosophy will be ready to listen and accept you with open arms.

Also,

Good work to the many wonderful minded individuals/players, who share similar/same ideas, philosophy of Balance, for the thief class.

Also,

Good work to those who acknowledge thief class brokenness and unbalance.

" Without balance, is no longer worth… for effort "

There will come a time where all efforts, and hard works… will be Rewarded and Appreciated.

“Life, Time reward and bless those who seek change for the better”

Reality

Too many wonderful wasted ideas, philosophy from wonderful minded players have long been gone, ignored in the threads, posts for far too long; it is time to put them where they belong and well deserve.

Introp.

What is to learn when you are created to be the best?

What is to learn when you are design to be the best?

What is to learn when your destined to be the best?

What is to learn when everything you do wrong is right?

What is to learn when you are given the best of everything?

What is to learn when you are admired for everything you do?

What is to learn when you are adored for everything you do?

What is to learn when you are cared for, for everything you do?

What is to learn when you are rewarded for everything you do?

What is to learn when you praised for everything you do?

What is to learn when you are given attention to everything you do?

What is to learn when you are given success to everything you do?

What is to learn when you are given power to everything you do?

What is to learn when you are given the tools to exploit others for your personal gain?

What is to learn when you are given entitlement to everything you want?

What is to learn when you are given entitlement to everything you need?

What is to learn when you are given unlimited access to everything you want?

What is to learn when you are given unlimited access to everything you need?

What is to learn when you are treated special by Arena.net?

ryan.6217:

Aveneo.2068:

This game would have been better off if the Thief class had never existed. Stealth in and of itself is inherently broken in most MMOs and giving one class access to a dynamic initiative system while keeping all others on a static cooldown system was a recipe for disaster.

Thief has to rely so much on stealth to get anything done as an old man has to rely on his cane. And personally I find the Thief class very unfun both playing one as well as playing against one as there is little to no counterplay involved.

This genuinely hurt my feelings. I hope you’re happy with yourself. I guess all your problems would be gone if i JUST DIDN’T EXIST DAD!!!… i mean cough Aveneo

All problems would be gone if our Parents; Arena.net, didn’t play FAVORITISM

Introp.8465:

Im too inexperienced in pvp, but from semi decent player prespective good thief is unkillable. Made myself long uptime stealth build – fail to kill= run away. 13 dodge build and 1s downtime on dodges till another 13s dodge streak – hop around like bunny. But i wont say that class its op. 1×1 – maybe too strong, but it gets weaker when number increases, like 2×2 and so on. Game isn’t balanced around 1×1.
1 thing id like – missing attack from stealth ( either thats is dodged, missed, enemy walked out of the range) should reveal stealh, raises skill level a bit.
By the way – are you all nuts? clearly warrior healing signet is op, you guys lost or something /irony

As the saying goes,

“what can be seen, can be killed” = Warrior’s Healing Signet (no irony…lost there)

“what can not be seen. can kill you” = Thief’s Stealth (Irony…Lost, Nuts here)

Anything else?

more freebies to thieves.

what’s new?

Welcome to the Tyrannic System!!

Thedenofsin.7340:

Devs,

Now that two of the best Mesmer players, Helseth and Sensotix, have quit playing Mesmer in favor of thief, are you going to recognize the “Apex Predator” problem you have created?

For clarification I am not saying Helseth and Sensotix are the best, simply among the best.

edit:
Helseth quitting Mesmer: http://www.twitch.tv/helsethgw2/b/500201131
Sensotix quitting Mesmer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3e9eHHjfaQ

Thief= no experience

Thief= low-skill requirement

Thief= no effort

Thief= cheap design with cheap alternative mechanics and tools.

Profits= unlimited access to stealth, stability, highest single damage, conditioner removal, critics, boon stripping, teleporting, health, resetting fights, survivability, invisibility, invulnerability, invincibility….bonuses and rewards.

Seriously ask yourself,

why work for hard labor, when you can work for cheap labor and get better profit ?

Few days ago, the thief guild i belong to brought the same issues as the Op and concluded how overall thief “balance” is a joke. So in conclusion they all voted to lesson their time with guild wars 2 for other mmo’s company who know how to Balance their professions/classes/jobs etc… and most importantly, Values all their professions etc…

Since many of us including myself had already lesson our time playing this “Balance” game, we can say how glad we are to the members who took their final step; i’m near my end as well.

Favoritism and Oppression is what Guild Wars 2 is all about.

The Only classes who Intentionally remain Un-Resolved since the 1st day are; Thief, and Ranger.

Obviously by now Everyone know by now, who the Favorite and Un-Favorite class are.

Well,

The only solution to all of this Theatrics and Injustice, is to completely remove and replace those who’s responsible of Intentionally plaguing this game within Arena.net.

Last week alone, 39 players + 1 large guild in a popular server had completely quit the game.

Time will tell when Arena.net will be Serious about ending Favoritism and Injustice.
Many and many will not bear witness when that happen. In other word, when the game is in it’s final life cycle, that’s when Arena.net will finally care (at least that’s the way i see things are going).

Look at the next “Balance” patch; not one thing serious thing about it; same, same issues, problems, theatrics, favoritism, and unbalance remains.

Seriously, not 1 care or solution to their concerned community players..whatsoever.

Until than.

Wake me up when this Nightmare End

Wake me up when Actions are taken

i almost forgot,

words, words, talks, talks, talking will not work on me.

Only Actions

well.. time up!

I’m off to playing Mmo’s whose companies Value, Care, Listen and Practice Justice, Practice Equal Treatment to their game, professions and their communities of players.

Pants Are Dangerous.2079:

I know this topic must have been made a thousand time but I just wanted to shout it out there.

I love Guild Wars 2

Op, I see that you are a new player and i Respect your love for Guild Wars 2 but there are more to it than what you see. I hope you get the chance to see the Reality, the Truth of it as it is and to fully prepare yourself for it. We have a good community of supporters in the forums, so ask us before heading out to the lions den.

Guild Wars 2 is a Dangerous World.
Guild Wars 2 is Not Your Friend
Guild Wars 2 is Not Your Lover
There is No Compassion!
There is No Surviving!
There is No Comfort
There is No Hiding!
Either you Live
Either you Die
No Rule
No Order
No Mercy
No Justice
No Remorse
No Freedom
No Compensation
No Exceptions
No Fairness
No Penalty

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

Burnfall.9573:

Shadowbane.7109:

cesmode.4257:

Shadowbane.7109:

cesmode.4257:

@OP…what level are you and how long have you been playing?

That question is just silly. I am playing since the 3 day head start and I too love the game but at the same time I am open about flaws and i do not deny them.

Didn’t your mother ever tell you no question is silly? Or any teacher in school, rather?

My point is that a lot of people see GW2 through rose tinted glasses for the first few weeks or months until they get to max level and see how everything lays out. With ascended gear grind for BiS gear (if that interests you) to the open world zerg content that is Living Story, to the lack of attention to dungeons, etc.

So yes, there are people like you that guininely enjoy the game since day one and I commend you. But there are a ton of people that enter the honeymoon phase at level 1 and exit the honeymoon phase at level 80.

I was always told that no question is STUPID O.O

Op, i’m seriously confused????

Yes, you are confused.
Shadowbane.7109 is not the OP.

oh wow!

thanks

Shadowbane.7109:

cesmode.4257:

Shadowbane.7109:

cesmode.4257:

@OP…what level are you and how long have you been playing?

That question is just silly. I am playing since the 3 day head start and I too love the game but at the same time I am open about flaws and i do not deny them.

Didn’t your mother ever tell you no question is silly? Or any teacher in school, rather?

My point is that a lot of people see GW2 through rose tinted glasses for the first few weeks or months until they get to max level and see how everything lays out. With ascended gear grind for BiS gear (if that interests you) to the open world zerg content that is Living Story, to the lack of attention to dungeons, etc.

So yes, there are people like you that guininely enjoy the game since day one and I commend you. But there are a ton of people that enter the honeymoon phase at level 1 and exit the honeymoon phase at level 80.

I was always told that no question is STUPID O.O

Op, i’m seriously confused????

Op,

this is the 1 thousand thread concerning this unjust unbalance theatric.

No wonder wvw is a total wreak!

In other word, total wreak= Balance

In other word, unjust unbalance theatric = Balance

In other word, cheaters= Balance

In other word, you should do what i do; Cheer them on!!

Cheer the bad guys!!

Hate;

Favoritism,
Favoritism,
more Favoritism

Like;

End Favoritism,

than I’ll have something to Like

Josh Davis.6015:

Thanks for the post, OP. This is a fairly polarizing topic, but it is interesting nonetheless. It came up quite a bit in the 3 likes / 3 dislikes thread as well. Changing the way downstate works would have such a large sweeping change on the way the game is played – it’s sort of fun to theorycraft the ramifications!

Keep in mind, I’m just spit-balling here – none of this is in the works. I would just like to see some more conversation on the topic.

So, what if you only rallied allies when you stomped someone, rather than cleaving the body? This would be much more difficult to pull off in large-scale fights, but you would have added risk/reward for attempting. Would even-numbered fights still snowball?

It would almost always affect players in small-scale fights as well. I’ve won plenty of 1v2’s in WvW and PvP from downstate, getting that clutch rally at the right moment – but that would go away too.

What if you couldn’t hard rez downed allies? What are the positives and negatives?

Anyways, just rambling. Feel free to discuss! If you have any good threads on the topic that come to mind, feel free to link them for me.

Near 1 year and 5+ months, why haven’t stealth stomping elimination been intentionally ignored or haven’t been in the works for so long?

" What if you couldn’t hard rez downed allies? What are the positives and negatives? "

To begin with, What if a thief Stealth Stomp down allies?

What is the point of having down dead stomp skills to begin with if stealth thieves are immune to them?

What if you couldn’t hard rez downed allies because they were killed by stealth thieves?

What if we couldn’t rally dead allies because they were already killed by stealth thieves?

To begin with,

obviously…

What can you do against a thief in stealth?

What can anyone do to a person/s you can not see?

What can anyone do to a Fail Proof thief class anyways?

" As the saying goes, "why inquire of change, when you play Favorites "?

The Positiveness of this is called Favoritism

The Negativeness of this is called Favoritism

End Favoritism than we can all talk about the Positiveness.

End Favoritism than we can all discuss the Negativeness?

Thief Class

So you want to have Unlimitedly Power, Insufficient Privilege to Control everything?

So you want law defying criminals to be free to break the laws as they please?

So you want rule defying criminals to be free to break the rules as they please?

So you want criminals to commit Injustice and to be Justified for it?

So you want criminals to commit massacre, slaughter, butcher, and exterminate against the innocent?

So you want to do crazy damage against the helpless, less capable, the vulnerable?

So this is your mission, purpose and destiny for the world of guild wars 2, am i correct Thief Class?

All along, this was your plan and final draft for the world of guild wars 2, am i correct Thief Class?

so what is this now??

Warrior took Evasion from The Thief

Warrior took Aoe from the Elementalist

Warrior took Condition from the Necromancer

Warrior took Stability from the Guardian

Warrior took Mobility from the Mesmer

Warrior took Condition Removal from the Engineer

Now the Warrior want to take Range from the Ranger

Warrior!!

ENOUGH!! IS ENOUGH !!

Lordrosicky.5813:

You can balance the OP lameness and passiveness of spirit ranger by making the spirits only give their buffs to players.

The fact it gives buffs to pets is broken in this game. Completely broken and leads to a ton of issues and no skill play. If the spirits only gave buffs to players it would support “supporty” builds in this game whilst not being brokenly OP.

Giving a pet dhummfire and swiftness with spirits is really bad idea. I hope this change will come in as it will help the game a ton.

The Ranger class are in crucial state in the moment and all you want to do is demoralize, dehumanize and destroy the ranger class in it’s weakness.

You have no Sympathy Compassion or Remorse for the outcast weak ranger class whatsoever.

Since our creation, we’ve been sought for death; for what crime? To survive and be belonged to.

All of you Bloodthirsty Superior Elitists class only desire is to drink the last cup of blood of the The Ranger.

So much you had drank from is, we are instantly killed with 3 stabs.

So much you had drank from is, our pets lick our wounds, lick our blood in show of remorse.

Stand

I’ve long been a defender and supporter of the necromancer class.

War

Now,

that will all change.

I summon Justice,

I summon Resistance

I summon Truth

It is War!

Resistance will Prevail

Truth will Prevail

Justice will Prevail

Innocence

The Blood of The Innocence;

Must be Avenged

Will be Avenged

Once again, warriors should be the top class in the game but not to excel at Everything !!

It’s not only warriors that are not balanced, the whole entire game is not balanced.

1 shot 3 kill unlimited perma-everything stealth stomp oppression favoritism elitist narcissistic broken control totalitarian….

what else am i missing??

Do you see this as Balanced?

Flamu.2319:

ITT: Rangers trying to convince people they aren’t useless in a zerg

so true and sad

SkyChef.5432:

There is one annoying exploit of down state that opponent player (mesmer 100% of the time) stays dead for a prolong period (10-15min, 1/2 hour if needed) inside keep/tower/gar near the gate or inside wall (caught glitching into wall using teleporting skill) waiting for their friends to come back to rez them then ports the whole army in. There should be a timer limit for the dead to staying inside enemy occupied tower but knowing Anet, just forget about this post. For amused purpose only.

Welcome to my server; we, they do it all the time, inf-act i had made a thread concerning this and was mocked, belittled and humiliated until the thread vanished.

I even had encouraged Arena.net in implementing a boot/kick system for those offenders, once a keep been taken.

Yet till this day, complete ignorance.

Thank You! for resurrecting this critical issue once more.

Viking Jorun.5413:

skyz.7321:

Viking Jorun.5413:

skyz.7321:

They can also teleport under the map to leave combat and heal.

Thieves do this the most.

You down them with a big hitting skill, which triggers their 10% auto stealth, you auto attack them (they’re invis still), all of us a sudden, you stop hitting, they never reappear, 10-15 sec later they’re running around near you on full hp again.

If you ever get a thief low, and have a strong feeling he should be downed, then reappears on near full or full health, he’s using ‘midnight’ or w.e that hack is called.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow's_Rejuvenation

It scales unbelievably well with Healing Power, and is in a tree with both Healing and Toughness. This isn’t a hack, it’s by design. :P

Yep, it does.

But I’m talking about people who you KNOW you put into down state, or ones you’re 95% sure you put into down state. There is a hack that allows people to teleport under the map to drop combat, and thieves use it more than hackers with another class simply because you can do it while stealthed, aka auto stealth when under 10% hp/downed, so the enemy doesn’t see them blatantly cheat.

The hack DOES exist.

I used to run a build where I’d drop Shadow Refuge before I went down, wait for it to lift, teleport out using downed state 2, and heal up in stealth using my boosted healing from SR. I don’t doubt some jack exists, but I think you lack the understanding of thief techniques to survive. It doesn’t take long.

I believe, the complete removal of thief stealth would resolve this critical issue.

wouldn’t you agree Viking?

After 1 year+5 months of protesting against the game unbalance…..

There is no Justice for those who those who are responsible for breaking the game.

This is the cause of giving them Too Much Power And Control.

Seriously, would you blame the hackers for abusing cheap design and cheap mechanics?

You and I see this every time and every day by certain classes.

I’ve come to the point of agreeing with your friend.

Your friend speak the Truth,

Perhaps you should too but not hack, but accept the Truth!

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Slice_

so it’s a thief than.

So 4k-9k damage for every 2.52 seconds is indeed balanced or “working as attended”? well, that make sense!

I’m not Surprised at all!

Not at all

Thanks!

So not too long ago while i was in wvw, i was hit with Slice; not once, twice but four time, after every 2 hits.

Slice damage are quite Alarming, ranging from 4-9k per hits.

I asked around any nobody seem to know which class uses it.

Until recently, someone whispered to me that it was a rogue class. Than i responded, “thief or mesemer”? The person asked me what class am i? I replied, Ranger.

Than i heard nothing else from that person, even though i tried again.

So i decided to bring this to the people and the community.

By the way, i wouldn’t be Surprised if this attack skill belong to the Elitist Superior Classes;; only they are given Ultimate Supreme Powers of Everything in this game.

Seriously, I’m tired of it!

Ok, i’m done

Op, as a ranger, i feel your pain; of being neglected, discriminated, humiliated, silenced and rejected. All because of what our creators made us to be. It’s not like we had a choice of wanting to be who want, it’s not like we had a choice of wanting to be what we need, it’s not like we had a choice of wanting to be supportive, it’s not like we had a choice of wanting to be valued and acceptive of who we are.

We had no say whatsoever in our design, in our creation…so why no one accepts us?

At least there’s a line we come across.

Our shortcomings.

Viking Jorun.5413:

A security guard is a police officer. His job description is different. You still go through the same process and have a badge as a security guard, just a different employer.

Incorrect!

A Police Officer is a sworn Law Enforcement Officer employed by a municipal, county, or state government agency and has powers of arrest.

A Security Guard is an employee of a private company with no Law Enforcement powers.

frans.8092:

Burnfall.9573:

To those who says that Thief can not survive without stealth; i invite you to look at this class; The Assassin from Guild Wars.

Thief =/= Assassin. There is a whole different archetype for the thief, it’s detailed in the books and I invite you to read them. I’ve pointed then out to you before but you ignore them.

As far as the thief archetype goes, it’s more familar to the Rogue/Shadowdancer in D&D. I do like that name, Shadowdancer.

Btw, Assassin in GW1 weren’t well represented in PvP.

Once Again!!!

THIEF IS NOT ASSASSIN

YOU ARE CALLED THIEF, NOT ASSASSIN

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Assassin

ASSASSIN DO NOT STEALTH, ONLY NINJA

*THIEF DO NOT STEALTH, ONLY NINJA

ONLY NINJA STEALTH

http://www.cart-white.co.uk/ninja/stealth.htm

Would you say, Security Guard= Police Officer?

Would you say, Pen= Pencil ?

To those who says that Thief can not survive without stealth; i invite you to look at this class; The Assassin from Guild Wars.

The Assassin “A swift, silent master of shadows, daggers, and death. The Assassin can chain together increasingly deadly strikes that target a foe’s critical areas, killing quickly and efficiently”.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Assassin

Show me where the Assassin needed or depended on “Stealth” to “Survive”?

You call yourselves “Assassins” yet The Assassin Does Not Stealth ?

You are “copy” of the Ninja Class.

Only Ninja class have Stealth, and Survive with Stealth*

http://www.cart-white.co.uk/ninja/stealth.htm

“It is often said that the Ninja is a supreme master of stealth, able to vanish in a puff of smoke”

Once again, I encourage you to pressure Arena.net to change your class name to Ninja instead of “Thief”

Thief Class consists of 3 class in one; Assassin, Ninja and Thief

It’s either Arena.net make up their mind and tell you, who you are?, and what you are? or continue face Judgment by the people and the community.

In the end,

Justice will be Served;

with or without the people and the community

Dee Jay.2460:

Ibbuli.4027:

Dee Jay.2460:

It’s the nature of stealth + burst.

It’s the same reason the Assassin archetype has been despised by so many in EVERY other MMO. ANet just made it worse by giving Thieves so much in combat stealth as well.

The reason people hate Thieves is because they might we wandering around, minding their own business when BAM, they instantly lose 50% of their health. This causes many less experienced players to panic and stresses them out. They make mistakes and then die quickly to another round of Backstab burst.

I get why that’s frustrating. I don’t blame people for expressing that.

I blame ANet for creating the worst, most unfair and exploitable stealth mechanic in any MMO I’ve played. In no other MMO was stealth ever such a cause for frustration both for the user and the receiver.

I think the keyword here is “less experienced players”.

Yes but you can’t design a mechanic around the notion that everyone dealing with it is a pro player.

ANet dropped the ball here. Even Revealed was merely an afterthought.

Instead of making Stealth a Thief’s defensive tool they made it the Thief’s universal tool for everything from setting up damage, over healing , blinding and condition cleansing.

It does too much and is yet too essential for Thief survival for them to play without.

Dee Jay,

Well said!!

I Honor your Bravery to the Truth.

(I was going to say something else but i like your version better)

I Sympathize with the thief class for being the most hated and despise class in the game, due to Favoritism by Arena.net.

As i will say again, it’s not the thief player/s who is/are bad, it’s their mechanic/s and their design.

In other word, the thief class had no say of their class design and mechanics.

Arena.net definition of Balance = Oppression and Favoritism
Arena.net playing Favorites will only result in the destruction of guild wars 2; it’s already happening.
As the saying goes, “All Oppression create state of War”
As the saying goes, “All Favoritism create state of Destruction”
Oppression= War
Oppression= War against Favoritism
Oppression= War against the Favorite Class
Oppression= War against The Unfavored Class
Oppression= War against Justice, Freedom and Liberty of The Unfavored Class
Favoritism= Destruction
Favoritism= Destruction to Balance
Favoritism= Destruction to the Unfavorite Class
Favoritism= Destruction of The Favorite Class
Favoritism= Destruction of Guild Wars 2

Luto.1938:

Burnfall.9573:

Because thieves can hit that high “hit like a Tank”, they play a Tank class role; not being “forced to” but are designed to be Tanks.

Once again, It’s Common Sense; if any class can hit 8-24k damage, obviously they can Tank.

I think that you misunderstand what a “Tank” in an MMO actually is. A tank is a class that can “take” hits like a tank. Thieves are most definitely not a tank, they are pure dps as they can not take hits at all or they will be down in seconds. That’s why they have mechanics like stealth and evade. As a thief to do damage greater than 8k it takes patience and skill to position ones self in the right spot and hit at the right time. A warrior just has to stand there, stun + 100blades.

Again hitting high numbers does not = being a tank. Surviving high numbers is what makes a tank …

That’s what i said, Thief Stealth/Perma= Survivability=Tank

I can give you a thief build where you can tank 1-25 zerg at ease.

On top of that, i can give you countless of posted videos where thieves doing just that.

Everyone except the thief class can agree that thieves are the top Survivalist class in the game.

Want the truth?

If i create a thread asking the people/players which class have the highest Survivability? 80% will say the thief class because due to Stealth/Perma’s.

Swimfan.8014:

Maybe it’s not worth opening a topic for this matter but I need to get my opinion out after playing mostly every class now and at last finding thief as my fav professsion (just like the way he plays plus he has no CDs and you really need to manage your ini).
We hear screaming, we hear shouting but something is off about all this crying cursing.

-> The thief is meant to be the highest dps class, playing the most risky game of all profession being forced to play close to enemies by nearly having no reassurance beside stealth to get some distance
-> Warriors are like Thiefs highly dps classes BUT they can’t be supposed to be that strong since they balance their gameplay by best armor+hp pool ingame

Now there comes all this screaming how high the damage of a thief is and Anet (who seems to get more clueless with every patch they’re throwing at us) takes away more and more damage leaving us as one of the most risky classes with damage on par with classes who are not supposed to be damage-dealers in the first place.
That is what I call some broken balance.

I’m not trying to tell you that thiefs are supposed to be on perma stealth or anything whatsoever but if we don’t do the highest damage, there is absolutly no way the game works as it should.
Cutting our damage cuts our surviability leaving us dead. We can’t win long fights, that’s not how the class is build. We win quickly or we don’t win at all but we can’t win with second best armor, least Hp and mediocre damage and that is what most other players not playing thief just don’t get.
And now try to believe in Anet, watch the livestream and see those- I dunno, I lost all my words the moment I saw them – laughing and joking about the fact that everyone needs to roll a warrior because they’re so strong TOTALLY FORGETTING the fact that it’s their fault warrior ended like this!

I already feel better having said this

Op. let me correct you " the thief is meant to be the highest dps class, playing the most risky game of all profession being forced to play close to enemies by nearly having no reassurance beside stealth to get some distance"

First of all. Warriors should be the highest dps class, and playing the most risky game of all professions" because they are a Tank; alongside with Guardians.

Period!!

Even Arena.net confirmed that in the latest stream.

Thieves are “not forced to be dps class” but because of Arena.net playing Favoritism and implementing an Elitist mechanics to the thief class, thieves are given the single highest dps damage with 8-24k per hits.

Because thieves can hit that high “hit like a Tank”, they play a Tank class role; not being “forced to” but are designed to be Tanks.

Once again, It’s Common Sense; if any class can hit 8-24k damage, obviously they can Tank.

Warriors do not have stealth or Perma-stealth, Warriors do not have near Perma-teleports and most importantly, Thieves are meant to have high evasions with high critics but 8k- 24k is Unacceptable

With thieves having Stealth/Perma and Near Perma-teleport, they do a lot better at tanking and everything else, than Warriors/

Want Warriors to play Fair ?

Give them Near Perma-teleport with Stealth/Perma

-The End-

fellyn.5083:

Burnfall.9573:

fellyn.5083:

Burnfall.9573:

fellyn.5083:

Why do people care if a class can run away from you fast? If they are running away they can’t kill you which would just earn more complaints.

Do you think you deserve that kill and he should just stand there and let you have it or what?

would you let a criminal get away?

I’m confused how this analogy is supposed to work. Please explain.

It’s quite simple; It’s not about them running away from you fast or that they can’t kill you. It’s about them abusing you than getting away from it.

If the word criminal is too harsh than i’ll replace it with the word; Coward.

As the saying goes, "Coward fight to flight, Coward fight to run, I Stay To Fight "

So you do want people to just stand there and let you kill them as you please. Gotcha.

It’s Common Sense

Are you serious!!

Can someone translate what i just said to Fellyn.?

Thanks!