Guild Wars 2

PvP shouldn’t be about skill not about weither you have xpac or not….. Anet wants to go Esports yet they follow p2w marketing strateg: buy xpac, play elites or uninstall, ty. It is like they are trying to make people go back to wow/LoL etc.

Shemie.4286:

Cynz.9437:

Shemie.4286:

nacario.9417:

Yes, the better teams will be ontop in legendary league figthing against a few great teams, while good teams below or in legendary will have to make their way through the soloqfodder. Sometimes good soloquers will be banded together, but theyll always be at a disadvantage.

Sorry to tell you this, but that’s how it’s supposed to be. The good soloq’ers will climb the ladder, while the bad ones will stay in lower divison/league and complain about bad teammates while suffering from dunner kruger effect.

Simple as it can get, if you’re good – you’ll climb no matter what, no need to complain. It’s all on you. And if you’re bad, you’ll stay where you are or fall lower to where you really belong. It has and will always be like this in every game with competitive ladder (CSGO, Dota, SMITE, LoL, SC2, HS, Hereos Of The Storm)

1. good soloq’ers will get farmed by premades
2. those games you named actually have separated soloq and teamq unlike GW2, how can you even compare…

lol no, do you even play them? Soloq’ers can match up against premades, some win and some don’t. Why do you think I mentioned them? Cus I’ve played them and I can compare. The question is; have you? It is always like that in any game anyways, good soloq’ers will climb. They don’t have to get roflstomped by premades either, imagine the rage on teamspeak/w.e voice communication they use or what kind of stress they are under pressure, while you’re netflix n chillin with hot girlfriend and yet winning?

I did play some of those games, they DO have separate soloq and teamq.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Zero Day.2594:

See…

They don’t balance for themselves, they balance for the top 0.01% of players.

And since the top 0.01 don’t do anything but +1 and decap, thief is fine.

0.01 rerolled revs lol

Shemie.4286:

nacario.9417:

Yes, the better teams will be ontop in legendary league figthing against a few great teams, while good teams below or in legendary will have to make their way through the soloqfodder. Sometimes good soloquers will be banded together, but theyll always be at a disadvantage.

Sorry to tell you this, but that’s how it’s supposed to be. The good soloq’ers will climb the ladder, while the bad ones will stay in lower divison/league and complain about bad teammates while suffering from dunner kruger effect.

Simple as it can get, if you’re good – you’ll climb no matter what, no need to complain. It’s all on you. And if you’re bad, you’ll stay where you are or fall lower to where you really belong. It has and will always be like this in every game with competitive ladder (CSGO, Dota, SMITE, LoL, SC2, HS, Hereos Of The Storm)

1. good soloq’ers will get farmed by premades
2. those games you named actually have separated soloq and teamq unlike GW2, how can you even compare…

choovanski.5462:

www.twitch.tv/narcarsis

Caed has a pair of solid builds on his twitch and a bunch of gameplay. I saw him in a tournament recently and that staff is niceee. thief I’d unforgiving, but can be very strong if you play it well.

watched that, saw thief camping downstate, turned off

… devs would go play thief in pvp vs non-dummies and see for themself what they have done.

Bring thieves to steal boons D8

PvP atm:
- elite or uninstall
- AOE SPAM EVERYWHERE CAN’T SEE ANYTHING
- AOE does more damage than single target spells wth
- CC on CC riding CC
- Dh, rev, scrapper, reaper, druid <- you don’t play one of those? uninstall please
- thieves/wars deleted from pvp
- CAN’T SEE activeTRAPS EFFECTS CUZ LOL VISUAL BUGS

Honestly, apprently balancing went like this for HoT: let’t throw cat on keyboard and see what happens.

… doesn’t drop hammer upon reaching 25%. He eventually gets full health and becomes double invulnerable and kills everyone.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Noticed the class then the title XD

this one just… ahhhh….

those concerns were expressed months ago…. Anet: 0 kittens given about solo players (which are majority)

MasterBlaster.6827:

Can you guys pls do calculations before you say thief has low dps?

if i recall correctly some calculations been done by DnT and co.

I truly enjoyed this read. Just one thing: they took away the meat and cheese so they can sell new revenant sub.

i think real problem is chest piece…. you have to complete level 4 day and night to actually have chance for it… what the hell

given that you would need at least dozen of people with full farmed mastries and more coordination than tripple wurm… i just don’t know :/

sky is falling down D8

online.1278:

thief is generally just to decap. if you can watch minimap a lot and have good premade friends to play with, then you will be fine. that’s it. There is no tip neeeded for thiefs.

decap role died when every class and their mother got moblity with sustain and high dmg

Shirlias.8104:

i used, tbh, to start fractals ( and have 1 friend with me ).

Have you tried to start one instead trying to join?

i AM starting own groups… i am just saying that i have been experiencing this today

Shirlias.8104:

what fractal lvls re we talking about?

I’m doing fine between 30 and 50 ( in before “lawl nawb” )

30-60

Morwath.9817:

over 9000

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

9000 DHs : 0 Thieves & Warriors

i don’t think tournament could hold so much dh swag

Shirlias.8104:

I know that thieves have dmg and survival issues, but givin em a ridicolous 3k dmg over 4 sec while other classes deal 20k over 3/4 sec will be worthless.

There’s too cleave ( both physical and condition ) dmg.
They should work on it instead on thieves.

Or maybe thieves should start posting spvp videos, to let devs know how actually is the situation.

They do. And they make suggestions posts too.

All the threads/posts either die out w/o getting any attention, get moved to dead section, get deleted or closed.

I bet this thread will be moved within an hour to thief section.

… seen couple of groups in fractals today, looking for everything but thief. If you actually tried to join as thief, they would kick you. Why do i get a feeling it won’t be any different in raids?

scarydogie.3024:

Am i the only one not stupid enough to see that by doing so you essentially give everyone a free reveal?

he wouldn’t care if he would run drd/sp build~

roelvanesch.2817:

Fay.2357:

The biggest problem for thief is that they don’t scale with alacrity. This means that without alacrity they could be competitive, but other classes will gain a drastic amount of damage while thieves have no change.

Really, Anet just needs to implement alacrity and chill affecting initiative recharge rates already. This should have been done a long time ago (for chill anyway), and is even more important now that there’s a positive counterpart to chill.

:O didnt realize this! Thats a big nerf for thief imo, since at least 1 chronomancer will see play in raids.

It is not a nerf, it is oversight… like everything else that has something to do with thief (see magnet fix but no scrop wire fix, see promised in patches 10% buff to heal for withdraw that was never implemented, actual nerf to improvisation when they included physical skills to it etc.)

lol that was fast

Knote.2904:

Wouldn’t this be a huge nerf to one it’s main functions as a stealth enabler?

Could still keep combo field smoke.

Let’s make predictions how many dragon hunters, thieves and warriors we will see in qualifiers xD

Just make black powder work like ranger pet smoke field lol

1. from what i saw, fights are time gated, you will WANT best setup you can get so you can actually finish fight on first place
2. thief doesn’t bring anything to raids/group besides mediocre dmg

Thus, besides some rare exceptions, thieves won’t see raids.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Gabriell.4856:

RedSpectrum.1975:

Gabriell.4856:

evilapprentice.6379:

It’s been 4 months. I’ve personally posted the topic a number of times, and I know others have asked the question in multiple threads.

Why is withdraw still missing the 10% noted in the patch notes? You increased the cd 3 seconds to accommodate a trait that competes with another build defining trait so no serious PvP thief can take it, but we still haven’t seen the increase.

Because stupid kitten like you and a lot of others believe in the devs. Simple as that.

And talking like that is why the devs probably don’t believe in this class

So we have to kiss thier kitten Really? What do you suggest everyone do? Wait patiently and lick thier b u t hole in hopes they buff us?

Drop the 10% heal already. They arent going to give it or it would of happen months already.

Let’s just make withdraw threads not just in the thief forum but in the pvp and hell even the bug forums. Maybe that sort of tenacity will cause a result, be it negative or positive

More like threads will be moved to this section or deleted and we would get banned for few weeks. You know, the usual~

Reroll revenant or engi. Those will never get nerfed for sure.

Don’t waste gold on thief.

Hooglese.4860:

Liquicity.3621:

Nemaides.6873:

Hooglese.4860:

snip

hide spoiler

Let’s get this out of the way: I don’t main thief. I’ve never been able to master the finese of perfectly managing my initiative but knowing that I can’t; I admire those who can rock this class even more than any other. As of late, there’s been a fairly significant drop in people on thief, and those who are playing it aren’t contributing as much to their team as they have in the past. “Why is this?” I found myself asking. I, for the most part (there are always exceptions), beat thieves to a pulp in pvp, duels which is a new thing since the change from traits to specialisations. So let’s take a look at some of the reasons I found why thieves got, arguably nerfed.

Thieves didn’t get any traits made baseline during the change. Many of the classes, most notably mesmer, had traits made baseline, giving them an all round buff to the class. Steal was increased in range by 300 and the recharge was reduced but that was it. The change to deadly arts has essentially made it required to take for any thief build. I think mug needs to be made baseline since it increases survive and damage, so there is literally no reason not to have it. Before it required 2 trait points which was fairly minor and many classes had a trait or two that needed one or two trait points but needing the entire line for it so your build options are dropped drastically. Trickery’s minor traits, grandmaster one not with standing, could also be made baseline on the argument that it’s hard to not take for the bonus initiative.

There is no way to remove conditions outside of shadow arts and even then its just damaging ones. First of all, most DPS classes have a way to deal with weakness where thieves don’t. Thieves really need some way to get rid of weakness since its a hard counter and it has been made easy to apply with cleave skills. Secondly, there’s no way to rapidly remove condis. The remove in stealth trait has been reduced to 1condi per 3s and that’s going to do nothing next to nothing for survive. The only skill that really removes condis for thief is shadow step but that won’t help much against, say, a necro or a burn guard. It really weakens thieves to not have a solution for condis, especially when a lot of abilities now don’t require a target to apply them.

There’s little potential for on point fighting. Thieves have always been bad at this but with acrobatics being turned into what is essentially a worse daredevil, there isn’t exactly an option. Sword dagger was annoying but it was on par with d/p or considered worse and its the one that got the nerf. Now there is daredevil which can fight on point but in no where near the same level, as say, a revenant. Also daredevil plays like an offbrand revenant. It has little stealth, about the same to worse dodge potential, equal mobility, and less damage with out any of the survive. You could say rev needs a nerf, which it does, but even if that happens daredevil still won’t get used as much since it lacks survivability.

Lastly, and most notably, is the introduction of reveal. Being able to reveal a thief for 6 or more seconds is more than enough to kill a thief and between engineers and revs, there is a lot of reveal to go around. There was nothing added to the thief to compensate for this, and that hurts them a lot more than anything. It would be like adding a skill that prevented blocking party wide. Better yet imagine if there was a skill that prevented a necro from using death shroud or, don’t, because it exists and its called moa morph (or signet of humility). Now imagine if it could be used on a 40s cool down. That’s basically what thieves have to deal with. Now, I am going to say, I like the addition of reveal but something should have been done to thieves to make up for it, since I can on my herald use glints gaze 2 more times than a theif can use sr.

If only Karl could have this epiphany.

Ya… but they’d have to bother reading it first.. and GL on any reply ever (source: thief forums)

You just have to believe! Then again, I remember the last balance update where they said “be happy thieves we are bringing in buffs” then just upped pistol damage

well considering there are consistently offensive threads about devs here and they stay here for days w/o getting attention untill some worried citizen reports them to mods, you kind of get the idea how much interest is there for any feedback from this forum section~

inb4 gets moved to thief forums and dies there never seeing light of dev attention~

thieves lack survival and way to deal with miriad passives/defensives other classes have; i don’t think your suggestions would really help much

Simple but very effective advice: reroll.

Morwath.9817:

tico.9814:

They have to remake whole the warrior class to be honest, from weapons to traits and so on, it has a very bad outdated design no wonder everyone claims warrior is like the easiest class to learn, even a kitten can play warrior, it’s like if anet used it as a basic prototype guide line to make the other classes during game development of some sort and relied from there while giving other classes more fun and interesting mechanics.

They already remade whole warrior/thief profession… and renamed in to Revenant.

fix’d

Doesn’t it strike anyone odd that profession that could potentially compete in popularity with revenant are abysmally bad in pvp atm?

Rationallity.2076:

Cynz.9437:

Rationallity.2076:

Cynz.9437:

I don’t. I don’t do pvp because devs made sure that thief is unplayable vs any half decent players/teams. The only time i queue is with my team and frankly i probably will be just playing revenant or quit game completely once i finished legendary stuff.

Thief is 100% viable, l2p issue.

yeah 100% viable… in HJs vs rabbits kek

Oh you’re right, guess Toker didnt just play thief vs top tier players in the Go4 monthly kek.

you mean revs?

Liquicity.3621:

Thief meta in HoT is Reroll

^^this

Rationallity.2076:

Cynz.9437:

I don’t. I don’t do pvp because devs made sure that thief is unplayable vs any half decent players/teams. The only time i queue is with my team and frankly i probably will be just playing revenant or quit game completely once i finished legendary stuff.

Thief is 100% viable, l2p issue.

yeah 100% viable… in HJs vs rabbits kek

MAN.9046:

how to soloQ: play another game
Hi-rez take my moniez
in all seriousness i love this game but it’s no longer “fun” post-HoT, feels like there’s too much AOE flying around

fixd

Ellieanna.5027:

It could be from a previous attempt. Otherwise, people would do that, then log out and have it reset.

Read again what i wrote. I logged in FIRST TIME that day. FIRST. TIME. THAT. DAY. Got locked out on FIRST ATTEMPT to join any group.

I don’t. I don’t do pvp because devs made sure that thief is unplayable vs any half decent players/teams. The only time i queue is with my team and frankly i probably will be just playing revenant or quit game completely once i finished legendary stuff.

I agree that thief need generally redesign in some aspects but they won’t do it, surely not untill next xpac comes out. Number tweaking is easier to implement though and would help core thief not to be complete garbage and useless at semi-decent skill level in pvp.

I personally find DrD just lackluster, not fitting thief (imo) at all and drd doesn’t solve any issue thief has from begin with. Even with elite spec the class is a joke when facing any decent team (thief class is still balanced around high dmg at costs of survival, or bit survival at costs of dmg while other classes have everything in one build, besides the so called +1 role is dead when you can’t do any meaningful dmg to anyone anymore and everyone has good moblity).

It is extremely frustrating and unrewarding to play it atm. I wish devs would at least try this class out in pvp vs decent teams. One can just dream -_-

Simply put, wars and thieves are unplayable in pvp at any semi-decent level atm. This is where your problem comes from.

Looking at amount of communication from dev side and their actions so far i highly doubt there is any hope for those 2 classes in the next year or so. Just reroll man :/

RedSpectrum.1975:

And make it so that when we have to dodge, we enter a quick time sequence and have to press 3 randomly displayed keys on screen or else we get hit

Your Mad King says….

Log in first time today, look up LFG for fractals, see a group, hit join. Join buttons greys out but i didn’t join any groups. LFG tells me i joined too many groups lately. The game actually prevents me from joining any groups and i just logged in game…..

1. this is not perma dodge build
2. this mes didn’t know what he was doing… -_-
3. bring this build vs organized teams and that thief would spend entire game at spawn

I am member of a guild that has members from EU and NA. We have a guild hall now, but issue is, if NA member is in guild hall, it will always kick out EU players upon entering. If EU player is in guild hall, it kicks out NA players that try to enter. At least separate instances would be welcome.

Morwath.9817:

Taltevus.3289:

Dragon Hunter traps were always meant to be invisible.
Do you mean in visible to you playing A dragon Hunter as in, you placed a trap and now you can’t see it?

It’s hard to have a trap…if your enemy can see it.

You know that sometimes you step on enemy trap, its damaging you and you still dont see it? Happens with both DH Traps and LB #5.

^^this… happens sometimes

…. i don’t see how current thief state and how class spells are balanced is justified. At all. Everything about thief is simply lackluster and weak compared to other classes. Inb4: oh this suggestions would make thief OP etc. Thing is, Anet won’t nerf other classes for the sake of thief, so only solution is to “join” other classes.

So here i will keep posting suggestions. Only for core thief, since DrD gets buffed at costs of core build anyway.

Weapon skills:

Backstab: damage is just too low for the requirements (melee, stealth, from behind). Problem is, other classes just have too much access to prot/invuls/blocks/passives/weakness that makes backstab absolutely useless.

Suggestion: damage increased by 30%, ignores protection and weakness if hit target from behind.

Heartseeker: dmg increased by 10%, applies cripple on target with more than 50% HP.

Headshot: additionally applies confusion and slow.

Black powder: grants protection while standing in it. Blinding powder nerf reverted, now ticks every sec.

Surprise shot (sb from stealth): dmg increased by 400%, applies cripple on top of immob.

Cluster bomb: leaves fire field if not exploded.

Disabling shot: remove freaking backpeddaling animation that locks you down and gets you killed. Should also apply chill on top of cripple.

Choking gas: revert to old functionality or nerf engi grenades. Because engis can throw grenades out of stealth w/o punishment.

All sword attacks: remove unnecessary aftercast.

Utilities:
Signet of shadows: should be stunbreak (see ele signet) and drop smoke field on activation.

Shadow refuge: should make immune to enemy applied reveal and grant stability/resistance if traited into SA. The amount of aoe flying around and dmg it does is so asburd that old counterplays (knockback, revealed) are simply not justified anymore.

Shadowstep should grant resistance on shadow return.

Signet of agility: increase radius.

Smoke screen applies 1 sec protection to allies running through it.

Scorpion wire: should get fixed just like magnet. Increase dmg :/
Heals:
Withdraw should remove slow.

Hide in shadows removes revealed debuff applied by enemy.

Signet of malice: apply weakness to nearbly enemies upon activation.

Traits:

Last refuge removed, replaced by light step: you don’t activate enemy traps/marks etc. when in stealth.

Bountiful theft: boons stolen up to 3, steals all stacks and gives all those stacks not just 1 to thief and teammates (e.g. if 25 might stacks are stolen from ele, then 25 might stacks are transfered to thief/teammates). Granting radius increased to capture point radius. Steal should priorizize might over regen/swiftness.

Quick pockets: additionally reduces recharge on weapon swap.

Bewildering ambush: additionally converts up to 3 boons on target to condis.

Sleight of hand: steal doesn’t trigger enemy passives.

Preparedness: removed from trickery trait line, made baseline. Replaced by trait: steal puts random enemy spell on CD (spells that don’t have CD, are put on 5 sec CD).

Dagger training: poison replaced with torment.

Mug: can crit again.

Trapper respite: traps also apply chill now.

Panic strike: also applies slow.

Revealed training: also grants retal for the duration of reveal.

Exposed weaknes: 20% instead of 10%; attacks from stealth are not affected by block/invul.

Potent poison: increases condi dmg on poisoned targets.

Improvisation: healing seed shouldn’t have CD upon use. The recharge chance should be fixed and work only for equiped utilities.

Executioner: apply extra weakness if target is above 50% (arguable under which condition)

Keen observer: chance to daze target on crit, ICD 20-30 sec?

Flawless strike: dmg increase 15%

Practiced tolerance: revert plz :/

Ankle shot: increases range of ranged weapons by 300 units.

Invigorating precision: affects party members (healing for teammates 10%).

Resilence of shadows: revert to 50% or change to 40% at least

Shadow protector: replaced regen with protection.

Shadows embrace: grants 1-2 sec resistance upon leaving stealth.

Leeching venoms: increase healing. Also affects teammates.

Elites:

Daggerstorm: increase damage to match aoe abilities from other classes (ahemmmmmm).

Basi venom: is small aoe on landing the attack now (120 units radius), ignores invuls/blocks/stability.

Stolen spells:
Whirling axe: should be able to cancel spell with weapon swap/stow weapon … and not waste dodge to actually get out of it !!!!!! >:(

Ice shard: drops frield size of choking gas applying chill every sec.

Tooth stab: add direct dmg, increase amount of bleed stacks :/

Mace head crack: apply weakness along with daze.

Consume plasma: gain ALLLLLLLLL boons. Ahem quickness, ahem resistance.

Throw gunk: changed to slick shoes aoe.

to be continued….

Given the amount of requirements for backstab and how much risk it ovolves, it should go through invuls/prot/blocks etc. The old times when counterplay to backstab via those was justified is over. Other classes just do too much dmg while being way too tanky. I see literary no reason why backstab still works under old rules of some non existend meta/class balance.

Just make DH traps as amazing as thief traps. Thief traps are so well balanced, developers put a lot of thought and effort in them! I am sure if DH traps were like thief traps, game would be very fun for everyone (including guards)!