Guild Wars 2

Fade.5904:

Nocta.5274:

Thief is like top4 in pvp. Stop saying we’re weak because you dislike what Thief’s role is.

This argument again, thief isn’t under powered because top teams always have one…well i’m sorry that’s a completely dumb automated retort. What’s the % of GW2 players in the ‘top teams’ – very small id think.

Your average player and even more so with the massive F2P influx have probably never watched a league match nor do they know what a thief’s supposed ‘role’ is in pvp. They just want to go into pvp have a few fights and play with their friends on an even footing. I know this because since F2P was introduced six of my friends have joined GW2, two of which I’ve tried to dissuade from playing thieves, which in itself is a shame and speaks volumes about the class.

Having any class in Gw2 that stands very little chance in a 1v1 no matter how well you play it isn’t good for the game, especially at a time when we have the opportunity to get new players hooked on PVP and create a healthier environment for us all.

This^^ is exactly problem a lot of “l2p” defenders don’t understand. Class having high skill cap is ok, but balancing class so it has only support role and is ONLY playable by top players and require absolute top teams in the world for it to work is simply stupid from economical view point. Why is it ok for other classes to be accessable but thief is just “be absolutely amazing and have top team or uninstall”?

The funny part is, if nothing changes, once xpac hits i wouldn’t be surprised of those top thieves would reroll revenant/mes or anything else for that matter.

Tbh at this point i actually hope that my worst predictions (thief inviable in pvp/pve) will come true in expac, maybe then devs will aknowledge that there is elephant in the room. Otherwise what i see from them atm is:
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/SvWH7M5RIHs/maxresdefault.jpg

Things that probably need to happen to put this class on same level with other classes:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Things-we-really-need

that would require devs to actually buff this class where it is needed – they can’t do that, at least not for the next 3 years heh

Sekai.2987:

yay! got my gems, to bad the sales were a month ago with great things in the gemstore because of the birthday..

they should hire an intern to send the gem rewards on a weekly basis, come on anet, you can do it , i belive in you !

or just let forum mods do that…….

1. stealth in those games is infinite, i can afk for hours in stealth on character somewhere in the corner w/o doing anything
2. idk about other games, but in wow if you don’t attack or get attacked you lose combat after 6 sec, so getting stealth up is actually not THAT hard if you are decent and know how LOS
3. i played stealth classes in various games and i found gw2 stealth actually requires more skill to pull off (at least in pvp on thief) than in any of those mentioned games; in gw2 timing and positioning is very important
4. in wow you need target for most spells, meaning stealth is actually way stronger there than in gw2 where you can spam all skills all you want regardless wither you have target or not (besides few exception)
5. rogues in wow had spells that made them immune to attacks outside of stealth and also spells that gave them access to stealth attacks w/o having stealth; gw2 is different story
6. in gw2 you have whole trait line requireing stealth, you don’t have that in other games
7. none of those games have such abudance of revealed debuff

while this is not directly about stealth, the stealth based classes i played in other games were all doing extremely high single target dmg and usually had high cc uptime….. thieves are nowhere near that for example, mesmers are different story~

back then when i was playing wow, if i opened on you, you would be dead within 3-5 sec, regardless trinkets/defensives etc.

but but but it is sooo tempting >_<

jk nothing good in gem store atm :<

some people enjoy stealth classes? ever considered that?

DeceiverX.8361:

How about we instead just get some non-stealth-playable options or better synergy while revealed via effects like RT for other stats or benefits?

i am pretty sure many people that main thief class type actually play it because of stealth

i can’t talk for everyone but i might as well warrior or revenant if it is not about backstabbing and stealthing around

as far as revealed goes, it really needs to change and have some costs and not just brainless aoe spam or even better, revealed applied by enemy should be switched to spotted – enemies can see your silhuette but you are still in stealth

the way revealed applied by enemy atm is just too punishing for low investment and low CDs; imagine if each thief steal would lock half of enemy mechanics…. yeah~

I love how whole l2p, get better, adapt is thrown around. Fact is, in HoT thief won’t have in meta spot due to absurd powercreep. Period. There will be nothing to adapt to when no team wants you. And no i am not talking about lack of ANY 1v1 viability, i am talking about thief completely losing it even at that supposed +1/roamer role.

Oh and it is so lovely how people try to justify current state of thief by Toker, Levin, Sinderer gameplay … I am glad to know that thief class is designed for top 3 players IN ENTIRE game that have best teams in the world to support them and allow them to be viable. Too bad for the rest of the mortals that don’t have luxury to have such teams.

You know what happens when you put those amazing thieves on normal teams in normal soloq or even pug tourneys? Take a guess.

Stealth based thief is playable if enemy actually doesn’t bring revealed, 1 engi with any reveal is enough to make your entire match experience to absolute horror.

If there is 2 of classes with reveal on enemy team you might as well not engage ANY fight at all or afk at spawn.

I honestly fail to understand which part of brainless aoe reveal is supposed to be skillful or fair…. there is either no tell or barely any as well. Bad design is bad.

uhhhh i like trasmutation charges…. why remove them :/

and then we have classes that can’t even use their heal or defensives w/o losing the orb

choovanski.5462:

Cynz.9437:

Nocta.5274:

nearlight.3064:

Don’t think about thief as killing everyone in sight. Thats the job of bruiser based classes that are tanky and can stack to 25 might in under 20 seconds.

Your job is primarily to use your unparalleled shortbow mobility to force decaps on side nodes first, and to use SR/SA traits to rez downed allies, since stealth prevents stomps, so unless they have very heavy cleave and see it coming they won’t be able to stop you.

As for actual fighting, have your team call targets for you so you can enter a fight after getting a decap and take down a target thats low and blew all of its cooldowns, while doing the same job of +1ing a 1v1 on a side node. Don’t 1v1 yourself unless its another thief, but you should be able to take on other zerker classes depending on their build, such as zerk staff ele, power engi/war, etc. Especially don’t 1v1 builds with high sustain or tons of active defense.

^ This.

Playing Thief in conquest require you a very different mentality.
You’re here to make your team win, never forget about that.

You mean getting carried by the team? Because thief with bad/average team has 0 influence on outcome of the match.

Whole decapping works only if your team can actually win/hold outnumbered fights.

Whole +1 only works if your teammates is really good at 1v1 and almost killed enemy anyway.

same goes for bunk guard. it cant win 1v1 & relies on its allies to be effective. seems normal for a team build in a team game to need a good team tbh.

Bunker guard builds for defensive to be a bunker and they are really good at it too. Thief builds for dmg mostly and are very risky, yet they are not a threat to anyone really? That is like getting rain coat so you don’t get wet under rain yet you get soaked to bones within seconds anyway.

Nocta.5274:

nearlight.3064:

Don’t think about thief as killing everyone in sight. Thats the job of bruiser based classes that are tanky and can stack to 25 might in under 20 seconds.

Your job is primarily to use your unparalleled shortbow mobility to force decaps on side nodes first, and to use SR/SA traits to rez downed allies, since stealth prevents stomps, so unless they have very heavy cleave and see it coming they won’t be able to stop you.

As for actual fighting, have your team call targets for you so you can enter a fight after getting a decap and take down a target thats low and blew all of its cooldowns, while doing the same job of +1ing a 1v1 on a side node. Don’t 1v1 yourself unless its another thief, but you should be able to take on other zerker classes depending on their build, such as zerk staff ele, power engi/war, etc. Especially don’t 1v1 builds with high sustain or tons of active defense.

^ This.

Playing Thief in conquest require you a very different mentality.
You’re here to make your team win, never forget about that.

You mean getting carried by the team? Because thief with bad/average team has 0 influence on outcome of the match.

Whole decapping works only if your team can actually win/hold outnumbered fights.

Whole +1 only works if your teammates is really good at 1v1 and almost killed enemy anyway.

Cait.5368:

to me it all sounds like ppl who complain abotu thief cant even play the class propely… dont listen to most of them, daredevil seems more to be more of a pvp profssion than a pve, but it still has its uses, and thief is FUN FUN FUN

I played over 4k games on thief, i have won tourneys, i was top 100 on LB before they were changed to farmfest: i do not think thief is fine or rather will be anywhere fine in HoT. The class lost powercreep battle and simply lacks mechanics to deal with all the stuff other classes got. Also, playing a pet and not a class in pvp is simply not fun.

ragnarokda.1805:

Ah maybe… Maybe…

But I did get hit for 9k very recently from BS and that was with 1200 toughness ammy. That’s obviously not common and I probably had vuln on me as well.

might stacks + vulnerability would do that….

ragnarokda.1805:

So thief can open with a potential 7k hit from BS out of stealth. Yeah, I guess that doesn’t sound THAT great but it’s not bad. But then does the thief just run away? Because a thief can’t one shot some one with backstab alone it makes thief do crap damage?

Mesmers aren’t doing all of their burst with one skill, either…

someone is having flashbacks from 2013….

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Cynz.9437:

Covis.6037:

thief is definitely most unforgiving class with all its instant stealth, multiple stun breaks, vamp procs, shadow refuge, super mobility, overpowered res power. Kappa

- plain lie
- the most common build runs shs for stun break, which is 2 on 50 sec CD……. that is far from multiple
- vamp procs is not class mechanic; besides vamp runes are banned in tourneys
- use knockback on shadow refuge? it doesn’t make you invulnerable either
- good vertical moblility yes, they do not have best on land moblity tho
- cleave? duh

To be fair, some people run infiltrator’s signet as a utility for another stunbreak.

ok? it is still 30 sec CD and you lose teleport/passive ini regen if you use it

Covis.6037:

thief is definitely most unforgiving class with all its instant stealth, multiple stun breaks, vamp procs, shadow refuge, super mobility, overpowered res power. Kappa

- plain lie
- the most common build runs shs for stun break, which is 2 on 50 sec CD……. that is far from multiple
- vamp procs is not class mechanic; besides vamp runes are banned in tourneys
- use knockback on shadow refuge? it doesn’t make you invulnerable either
- good vertical moblility yes, they do not have best on land moblity tho
- cleave? duh

apharma.3741:

Cynz.9437:

apharma.3741:

T raw.4658:

I’ll say it again.

If you lose to a thief 1v1 on any class you are significantly worse than that thief player.

As for the whole mobility vs 1v1 ability debate. Look thief gave up its team fighting ability for the mobility it has. The fact now that the 1v1 ability is gone should be reversed.

I’m sure a lot of ppl will try to shout down my PoV and that’s ok. It won’t work due to them having absolutely zero facts to counter me but they can voice their opinion.

They don’t have to shout you down, they only need to ask you to prove what you say in the first place. You have yet to offer any proof that 1v1 with “equal skill” that a thief will lose.

Here’s a nice video from Sindrener. I would assume anyone with an MMR capable of being put in a match up with players of Sindrener’s level certainly doesn’t need to L2P, especially when they’re in the WvW guild he is/was in. Also Katru did an amazing job.

Don’t get me wrong, some classes/builds thief cannot 1v1 at all but it’s not helpless against all classes. The discussion in the vid is nice to.

Sinderer, Levin and Toker play with best teams out there. Not everyone has such luxury. Thief needs a good team to actually have any impact on match. Try to pull that with pugs in your average daily yoloq. You know what happend to Levin when he did pugquest and had crappy team? He couldn’t do anything. Period.

I mean by that logic every class should be balanced around top 3 teams and trust me you wouldn’t be facerolling on mesmers right now and talking soo all mighty if Anet actually balanced mesmers around Frostys or Heleths skill level.

Firstly that video is not all with oRNG, the first few where he 1v1 a mesmer which is what I was asked to provide. Proof a thief can 1v1 other classes successfully and if you read the comments on the vid they estimate thief vs mesmer is 50/50.

Secondly, were any mesmers, you know the ones that are competing with the same thief role carrying any teams? That’s the only way you can make a good “thief so bad in pug quest” argument. You said in a post that was deleted Levin faced a team with a very experience DD ele. Comparing the two of them is a rediculous thing to even begin to try and is insulting to everyone’s intelligence so don’t start with it.

As for your Helseth comment, he did say after the mirror blade nerd Mesmer was balanced, go figure.

1. Sinderer was better, mes shouldn’t lose to thief atm. Period.
2. I queue with Frosty frequently, he does carry pugs we get. Also, i am glad you follow all my posts, i assume i should thank you for mods visits.
How is it ridicilous? Please tell me~
3. Helseth mains mesmer and is known for being rather subjective, yeah we should totally believe every word he says.

Amante.8109:

Belial.9350:

As everyone has said, thieves would be stupidly OP if they could be everywhere at once while being able to most of their matchups…

Good thing that’s what literally no one is asking for. Look around the Thief forums and you will see many people openly admitting that they’d gladly lose Shortbow #5 if it meant gaining the ability to take hits without exploding like every other profession in the game.

Talk for yourself. I personally don’t want to lose sb5. Before spec patch i was able to 1v1 some classes if i played well, not all, and nobody had issues with that (besides obvious new players that didn’t figure out how to deal with stealth).
Now all of sudden it became a norm that thief shouldn’t be able to fight ANYONE because of sb5…. Why do people even defend this propaganda, including thieves!? Are we that brainwashed now? Who said this concept is how it should be? WHILE MESMES EXIST IN THEIR CURRENT STATE WTH!!!!???

apharma.3741:

T raw.4658:

I’ll say it again.

If you lose to a thief 1v1 on any class you are significantly worse than that thief player.

As for the whole mobility vs 1v1 ability debate. Look thief gave up its team fighting ability for the mobility it has. The fact now that the 1v1 ability is gone should be reversed.

I’m sure a lot of ppl will try to shout down my PoV and that’s ok. It won’t work due to them having absolutely zero facts to counter me but they can voice their opinion.

They don’t have to shout you down, they only need to ask you to prove what you say in the first place. You have yet to offer any proof that 1v1 with “equal skill” that a thief will lose.

Here’s a nice video from Sindrener. I would assume anyone with an MMR capable of being put in a match up with players of Sindrener’s level certainly doesn’t need to L2P, especially when they’re in the WvW guild he is/was in. Also Katru did an amazing job.

Don’t get me wrong, some classes/builds thief cannot 1v1 at all but it’s not helpless against all classes. The discussion in the vid is nice to.

Sinderer, Levin and Toker play with best teams out there. Not everyone has such luxury. Thief needs a good team to actually have any impact on match. Try to pull that with pugs in your average daily yoloq. You know what happend to Levin when he did pugquest and had crappy team? He couldn’t do anything. Period.

I mean by that logic every class should be balanced around top 3 teams and trust me you wouldn’t be facerolling on mesmers right now and talking soo all mighty if Anet actually balanced mesmers around Frostys or Heleths skill level.

OK, so if patch tomorrow won’t bring good changes, i will be doing thief funeral tomorrow on EU, at 9 pm CEST. Message me in game, if you want to join :<

if we are allied with pirates and bandits we can’t get kill achivements, finish events etc :<

we will see what happens once that supposed mmr bug gets fixed

OP doesn’t have l2p issue, the problem IS there for high mmr players qing alone

it gets really obvious if you make new account and get 100+ wins with high win rate (90% in my case);
the wall is simply insane:
- you win few games, having ok matches, maybe even lopsided where you just 500-10 other team
- then game decides ok, your win rate is too high, let’t get it down a bit
- you get bunch of games in a row where 3 of your teammates get constantly soloed by 1 guy that you can easily 100-0…. and 4th is too busy farming animal/buffs all game
i honestly was thinking to start to record such games, it is sometimes beyond hilarious
example: in one of such amazing games i managed to solo 2 enemy medi guards on thief (yes, on thief) while my team struggled to even cap one point w/o wiping xD

+1 great post, couldn’t have said it better.

Kocoff.7582:

Shalien.9018:

Cynz.9437:

You know your main sucks when you log on other classes that you don’t even have 1% of experience you have on thief and it is just so much more rewarding and easier…

while I’m reading the skills as I fight to see what they do.

That made me lol.

that is true tho… i am in exact same situation on ele atm……. :|

gold farmers would love this one xD

2 years, 4k+ games (2 accnts combined), about 4.5k hours on thief here…. there have been suggestions, l2p and what not, it just got worse and worse with every patch…. i am personally just tired… i am sure so is most long time thieves (pvp/wvw)

You know enemies you face aregetting carried by class mechanics while you are forced to play perfectly for low reward
You know your main sucks when you log on other classes that you don’t even have 1% of experience you have on thief and it is just so much more rewarding and easier…

I am tired of having to rely on my enemy to be a total idiot so i can succeed….
I am tired of watching this class consistently nerfed (directly/indirectly) while class isues are not adressed for years (or never)….

bloodymarx.9052:

Cynz.9437:

Basically, devs decided to nerf thief to a point where most players don’t enjoy it? Doesn’t sound like great design to me.

Correction: the devs nerfed the class to a point where most thief players don’t enjoy it.

Other classes don’t mind this at all, unless there’s a thief on their own team. But even in that case, it’s not like they are going to go to the forums to complain about thieves being useless. Only thieves would complain about thieves being underpowered.

And as the number of thief players decreases, the developers have less and less incentive to work on thieves. In the end, all they’ll do is to only put in a token effort to develop the class.
Seeing the quality of the daredevil, we might already be at this stage. Tuesday’s patch notes will reveal whether this is the case. That’s because we’ll see then if the developers are willing to put in any more effort than the minimum. (Said minimum is fixing the errors of the daredevil and tweaking its numbers for BWE3.)

Nah, they go on forums to cry why they get 2-3 thieves on team kek

still looking ._.

I think it is fine that other sets are being promoted, i do not see however how it is any good for thief – the class just doesn’t synergize well with any other stats but zerker (maybe condi build but let’s be real here, 1 condi necro equals roughly 3 thieves at this point).

Pretty inaccurate tho….. did Anet pay them to make this?

@Odokuro.5049: it may work in other games but we all know way too well how Anet does their balancing. Besides there is less than month left untill release. There will be NO dramatic changes (which are needed imo). Period.

I always played assassin type of classes in every game (rogues in wow, stalkers in cov etc.). I love that sneaky cowardy backstabbing guy/girl with dagger concept :>
When that class becomes too frustrating and absolutely unplayable, i would just leave game for good.

I love the thief mechanics, at least idea of it. Every other class feels like your standard classic MMO: press butt 1 2 3 4 5, wait for CDs, press buttons 1 2 3 4 5, follow your standard rotation, if you fail there are plenty of safe nets (in form of passive, stats etc.). Thief on other hand feels like playing action game.

I like the high risk concept (not so much low reward that been the case lately).

I also love how mobile they are, it is very spoiling. Every other class feels so slow after playing thief.

I have to admit though, lately i been barely playing mine. It is just no fun unless i am with a good group. Atm just farming champion <class> achivements (currently working on champion magus) …. it is boring but at least not as frustrating as playing thief with pugs :|

Lighter do you even pvp or is it some attempt at….?
Thief can’t go full offensive while maintainign highest (lol) survivability. That is what eles are. Or warrior in rampage with zerker stance. Heck, even mesmers thanks to miriad passives, stealth, CCs and invuls.

Rangers are used in tourneys, just not as much because mesmer is way better.

What is thief’s “freaking OP” mechanic? I would love to hear all about it.

Warriors are not taken in pvp just because of endure pain, eles by far are not taking because lightning flash (i mean wat), nor mesmers for blinks (althrough getting closer there), nor elixir S on engis.
Those classes you named (besides mesmer) fill team fighter/bruiser roles, it is not defined by 1 spell, but by the package. Problem with thief is fills literary 1 function (not even role) right now which is +1. And it is all defined by mobility (sb5) and stealth. Nothing else. Thief fighting capability in pvp is total joke. You know what is a bad thief? The thief that engages fights in pvp. That says enough about state of the class.

edit: the guy plays warrior, no wonder there is salt

Besides rather depressing state of the thief i can say following regarding fractals:
- zerker is more than fine in fractals, in fact you should be running it
- there are 2 types of groups in fractals: elitists speed runners and your casual Joe groups.
The elitists: stack 25 might stacks, fight pretty much all bosses in melee range. Thing is, thief can’t do it so well on certain bosses unless you have superhuman reflexes. If useing dd is too hard for you atm, use s/p in those groups. PW will get you through most encounters in melee range thanks to evades, just have to time them a bit.

Average Joe groups: camp PP. Simple as it is. If you are only person trying to melee boss while ele and mesmer on your team spam sword/staff from 1200 range you just gonna be dead all day. There is no point trying to RP some melee hero when rest of your group is pewpewing from safety.

That being said, every boss is different – some bosses can be meleed decently, some not so much. Example: you can easily fight tree boss in swamp fractal with DD, just stay behind his back right leg. Boss that can’t be mele’d so easily (nor you should on first place) is Mai Trin, that’s where PP is probably better choice.

I am sure there is guide for every boss for thief somewhere in forums/internet. Looks it up (sry i am too lazy to type strategies for every boss).

Personally, i used to run lv 50 fractals every day untill i got tired of it. I have full set of weapons, ascended zerker daggers, sword, pistol, shortbow, and switch them depending on what boss i fight and what kind of group i joined.

blarghhrrkblah.3412:

Aguri.2896:

I’ve accepted that thief isn’t a real profession anymore. You should too, OP.

Now you’re just being melodramatic. Thief is still competitive…just not in the way most of us would like.

Basically, devs decided to nerf thief to a point where most players don’t enjoy it? Doesn’t sound like great design to me.

The real question is: is it even worth it to slot anything else but zerker on thief? We all know how well (or rather bad) thief profits from defensive stats, still gonna get 1 shot if boss just looks at you.

Idk what raids will be like, but i can judge by BWE new zone events/LS: thieves do NOT have enough condi cleanse. With shadowstep, SA, signet of agility, sword 2 i was still dying to random condi (mostly torment) from sources that weren’t even visible or obvious half of the time, some stacks were getting high so fast i didn’t even have time to use shadowstep before condi ticks instagibbed me. HoT is extremely condi heavy, many spells on npcs have close to no tell, also no amount of dodges gonna save you vs auto attacks that apply like 5 stacks of torment from 2k range.

You think extra HP from valk will help you? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. The champs and silver mobs hit so kitten hard from huge range it won’t even matter. There was one boss, she had huge barely visible aoe, that would instagib you and had radius of shortbow range.

wait wait wait did someone just say mesmer elite F5 is bad? waattttttttttt????
Wasdclick, you can’t be serious…. F5 on mes is AMAZING, i tried chrono during BWE O_o

from druid description:

Upcoming content will have stuff that you can’t just dodge to survive.
Berserk meta is going away

Thief can ONLY run zerker, it sucks on anything else. You can slot as many tanky/healing stats/traits/spells you still gonna drop if boss just looks at you.
Thief relies on blinds(which are worthless vs bosses) and dodges… which apprently will be worthless as well.
Thief elite spec is based on dodges….

Do devs even communicate with each other?

apharma.3741:

Caedmon.6798:

atlrising.5134:

Oh and plus why shouldn’t be able to stealth as a defensive measure…do you know how many times thieves do this….fight…stealth….fight…jump through ring to stealth… its crap you guys complained about PU so much but forgot about the bigger stealth picture as a defensive mechanic.

Does a thief have countless of blocks + invulns ontop of that stealth ? Thieves only defense mechanism IS stealth.

No they have countless blinds, teleports and evade frames instead.

2 builds in 1? nice

hard to say, would have to drop stun breaks/refuge for it
i don’t mind sb, i also think sb isn’t reason why thief would deserve so many (in)direct nerfs

let’s also assume for a sec that sb doesn’t exist…. what would you use anyway? the way initiative works it is rarely useful ot switch weapons on thief (unlike other professions)

Phil.8901:

Honestly I always see his sustain untouched and always an high capability to stack a lot of might

And Necro now will have more difficult to kill it.

At the end, always Meta ^ 2

would you like an iwin button?

nah they will just report you for trolling/botting because you didn’t switch prof

So, as far as i understand, unload will do more dmg, maybe AA. The rest like body shot, head shot and blinding powder still will do non existent dmg (so 300ish lol). I don’t see how this 20% changed ANYTHING for pp nor adressed any issues thieves have generally……
Yeah the dmg increase is welcome but really it won’t solve anything. It is utility/survival/way to deal with miriad passives is what thief lacks atm. I know THAT is actually hard to implement but why even bother wasting recources on numbers change that won’t do anything? You are not gonna be able to run with chopped off legs just because your wheelchair is tiny bit faster now.

Tux kitten inguin.3049:

I stopped using it for 3 days now without having those problems. You got enough stundbreakers and stuff to survice. Although it is a very helpfull thing on thief, sadly.

Try to play thief w/o vamp runes vs actually organized teams with mesmer that is not drooling on keyboard.

As much as i don’t like that rune i simply can’t play thief w/o it atm.

Yes, you can use pack rune or w/e but you would need amazing team that would be willing babysit you and how many thieves could have such team? 3? 4? yea…. The rest just has to either stay afk at spawn or camp stealth 24/7 basically causing 4v5 for own team because otherwise they get 1 shot by invisible mesmers burst (i actually can deal with thieves, mes on other hand will instagib you while you are wasting stunbreaks trying to get hold of own character) and miriad of other classes passives.

I really wish thieves in pvp didn’t have to so heavily rely on this specific rune set but seeing devs are determined to delete the class and there is no hope in sight this rune is all that is left :|

we can’t have nice things, sry

Eagelseye.6312:

So if I was a PvP player in WoW and played as a DK tank for flag carrying games and DK DPS for resource games (as most of the maps in GW2), what is the suggestion for me to play here if I have just joined?

I have full HOT account. Please share your suggestions.

i would suggest warrior… it is easiest class to get into game with, they are very straight forward, very forgiving and are in good spot in every area of this game

closest to dk gameplay would be necros and (mallyx) revenant probably but you need a bit more understanding of the game to use them properly

i wouldn’t suggest picking mesmer and thief at begin:
- thief is generally in bad state atm, extremely high risk, low reward; is basically sub rogue begin of each xpac (aka useless w/o good team and can’t do anything by itself)
- mesmer is pretty strong but, as thief, is mechanically and positionally very demanding