The only thing that will happen is (as usual): Anet will nerf dp for the sake of sd and not solve anything…they don’t give a flying cow how bad thieves perform compared to other classes atm. Thief dev doesn’t even know thief traits nor what they do, you actually expect something productive from those?
Thieves degerated to rez/stealth/decap bots that are not capable of anything else.
- aoe stealth doesn’t last that long and is usually on long CD; how about we nerf all aoe support spells all together eh?
- revealed on downed state makes mesmer downed state skill, thief rez trait as well as their downed skill useless; why not delete them as well? why not delete all downed state skills? why not delete all rezzing skills while we are at it?
- classes that rely on stealth don’t have big/any access to to things like protection/invul/blocks and co. how about we nerfs those as well for all other classes eh?
intensity? how about we apply same mechanic to invuls/blocks/protection and co. as well? oh let’s completely forget the absurd amount of aoe in this game~
- oh lastly, let’s just delete entire SA traitline since it relies on stealth so much
stealth has huge downside in pvp: you can’t contest nor hold point while stealthed… but hey let’s forget about it~
protip: communication and just looking at map helps to predict where stealth classes will go next~
stealth is not the problem, damage and CC is~
But then you realize mesmer has the best invuln/evade uptime in the game outside of oh look thieves, and kittens protection/regen/aegis out of their kitten in their stealth build.
That is mesmer issue, don’t have to shaft other classes (that are already not doing so great) because mesmers got overbuffed.
I’m not saying anything at all about the suggestions in the thread. Anet’s proven they can’t handle stealth.
I’m just correcting where you wrong. The stealth dependent classes in the game are not the ones that lack active defense. Mesmer is particularly broken but thief really doesn’t lack in active defense either. The s/d evade4dayz build was meta for a long time and still strong.
s/d is not even built around stealth and is hardly viable in current meta…..
what do you expect thieves that don’t run s/d do? delete their character because you think they got plenty of defense outside of stealth?
I said if you are stealthed and then get downed, you are revealed. I did not say that stealth shouldn’t work when you are downed. One of the main problems is super elongated stealths that allow a player to get downed but then have enough time to stay stealthed while reviving or being revived, before the enemy even realizes that player was downed. This is a broken mechanic and it needs fixing, along with everything else that I mentioned. ^^
~ You should carefully read a post before commenting on it
Oh let’s punish me for using refuge preemptively before i or my teammate go(es) down… great idea /facepalm
Once again, stealth =/= invincibilty. Use cleave or did you forget how to press buttons?
Oh protip: play with game sound. You can actually hear where person is trying to rez even if they are in stealth.
Once again, it is dmg + CC issue, not stealth.
Secondly, just because mesmers got overbuffed doesn’t mean mechanic itself needs more nerfs.
I fought PU mes and SA thieves, i don’t see how it is any worse than what ele/wars/engis/wars can pull off, really.
I can list many things from other classes and just call them not fair. Shall i?
If you played thief, you would know stealth -> hit -> repeat doesn’t work. Oh wait, you probably just spam evade.
I know you are afraid of another thief nerf, that’s why you’re being so biased so I’ll stop right now.
Did you test s/d now? I don’t think it’s just “spam evade”.
No, i am just tired of moronic uneducated complains.
Thieves are already not threat to anyone (given same skill). Only thing they are good for is decap/+1. Glad, we can play only when we can rely on others to carry us. Great class eh? Let’s nerf the very little team support they have because of the overbuffed mesmers for the sake of mouse clickers~
Yes, i did test s/d after patch, i know it got nerfed and is not brainless like prepatch. Doesn’t change my point: you probably spammed evades prepatch and you claim stealth -> hit -> repeat is possible, but it is not. Revealed exists. Multiple way of stopping stealth exist; multiple ways of avoiding dmg from stealth exist; multiple way of punishing revealed enemy exist. USE THEM.
Once again, it is dmg + CC issue, not stealth.
Secondly, just because mesmers got overbuffed doesn’t mean mechanic itself needs more nerfs.
I fought PU mes and SA thieves, i don’t see how it is any worse than what ele/wars/engis/wars can pull off, really.
I can list many things from other classes and just call them not fair. Shall i?
If you played thief, you would know stealth -> hit -> repeat doesn’t work. Oh wait, you probably just spam evades.
Glad someone has taken the plunge with Win10. I’ve got the notification to do it, I just wasn’t sure if it was going to be a colossal mess.
i personally usually wait few months for things to settle down before installing new toys like this~
drivers and co. causing issues on new windows is really.. not new lol
high personal score tells me: i roamed alot or wasted time farming useless buffs/animals when my team needed me
now the problem with it is, bunkers probably shouldn’t have high score; if they do it means they either
a) didn’t defend anything
b) their team was crap and they had to roam instead
that being said there are so many cases that personal score overall is worthless, imo
HOWEVER. if my score is around 300 and all i did was defending/capping whole match and my entire team is below 100 then i know i did my job while my team kep feeding enemy >:(
- aoe stealth doesn’t last that long and is usually on long CD; how about we nerf all aoe support spells all together eh?
- revealed on downed state makes mesmer downed state skill, thief rez trait as well as their downed skill useless; why not delete them as well? why not delete all downed state skills? why not delete all rezzing skills while we are at it?
- classes that rely on stealth don’t have big/any access to to things like protection/invul/blocks and co. how about we nerfs those as well for all other classes eh?
intensity? how about we apply same mechanic to invuls/blocks/protection and co. as well? oh let’s completely forget the absurd amount of aoe in this game~
- oh lastly, let’s just delete entire SA traitline since it relies on stealth so much
stealth has huge downside in pvp: you can’t contest nor hold point while stealthed… but hey let’s forget about it~
protip: communication and just looking at map helps to predict where stealth classes will go next~
stealth is not the problem, damage and CC is~
But then you realize mesmer has the best invuln/evade uptime in the game outside of oh look thieves, and kittens protection/regen/aegis out of their kitten in their stealth build.
That is mesmer issue, don’t have to shaft other classes (that are already not doing so great) because mesmers got overbuffed.
e.g. 5-2 combo thief or refuge+5+2+ blinding powder.. etc.
But it seems anet love so much the passive play so just stealth wait for your enemy hit them and if you didn’t kill them repeat and you’re good.
those combos can be interrupted easily….
passive gameplay? really? stealth was never passive gameplay
passive gameplay is IP from engis or healing signet from wars…
Read again, I didn’t say stealth was passive play.
I did say stealth stacking is, you literally stack stealth until you know you can hit your enemy and get him but don’t worry if you didn’t kill him you can just re-apply stealth wait some secs take a coffe or smth and hit him again.
That’s what anet needs to remove , stealth is supposed to be a position mechanism, now it’s used as a “safe hit and run, try again doesn’t matter at all”.
How is stealth stacking a passive gameplay? You actively have to use resources to gain/maintain stealth; you also lose point while at it. Also, stealth doesn’t garantee you can hit the enemy. You might actually die while trying to get in position for burst.
Stealth =/= invincibility.
You can’t reapply stealth just easily, there is thing like revealed in this game or are you telling me you just sit here doing nothing and wait untill revealed runs out or don’t bother interrupting any spells that grant stealth?
How can you even say doesn’t matter? Did you even try to play a class that relies on stealth vs any decent team? Please go make a thief and play vs decent team w/o using stealth. Tell me how it went. I would LOOOOVVVVEEE video of that.
e.g. 5-2 combo thief or refuge+5+2+ blinding powder.. etc.
But it seems anet love so much the passive play so just stealth wait for your enemy hit them and if you didn’t kill them repeat and you’re good.
those combos can be interrupted easily…. let’s penalize eles and guards for using heals; let’s penalize mesmers for using shatters; let’s penalize engis for using kits….
passive gameplay? really? stealth or attacks from stealth were never passive gameplay (besides LR that probably killed thief more often than saved them)
how can you even call it passive? to gain stealth you have to actively do something; to attack from stealth you have to actively do something… where is that passive?
passive gameplay is IP from engis or healing signet from wars…
- aoe stealth doesn’t last that long and is usually on long CD; how about we nerf all aoe support spells all together eh?
- revealed on downed state makes mesmer downed state skill, thief rez trait as well as their downed skill useless; why not delete them as well? why not delete all downed state skills? why not delete all rezzing skills while we are at it?
- classes that rely on stealth don’t have big/any access to to things like protection/invul/blocks and co. how about we nerfs those as well for all other classes eh?
intensity? how about we apply same mechanic to invuls/blocks/protection and co. as well? oh let’s completely forget the absurd amount of aoe in this game~
- oh lastly, let’s just delete entire SA traitline since it relies on stealth so much
stealth has huge downside in pvp: you can’t contest nor hold point while stealthed… but hey let’s forget about it~
protip: communication and just looking at map helps to predict where stealth classes will go next~
Not related to GW but it seems certain versions of W10 will not activate. This does not affect playing the game, however. My son’s Win7Pro activated immediately but my 8.1 Home refused to activate after severval dozen attempts over the last few hours. (Funny story… finally got fed up and called phone activation… while on hold I tried to activate two more times… activated on the 2nd try!)
Glad to hear there are some updated drivers coming out. Any info on Win10 that could affect my GW addiction id greatly appreciated.
as far as i recall you have to reroll back to windows 8 to be able to install update to 10
i think i know what our spec is: true perma invisibility…. it is so OP in keeping stealth up that even devs can’t find it hence why no preview or any mentions :P
cg you got 1 shot by full glass sigil thief; your sneeze could probably 1 shot him… now there are quite few classes that can pull even higher numbers and actually have way better survival… just saying~
Um.. is there a mechanic that completely destroys Power Damage the same way that Condi Cleanses negates Condition Damages? Or transfers your damage back to you like a Condi Transfers? Or a boon that Stops your condi damages like Resistance?
All the above and Condi classes are still effected by Blocks, Dodges, invulnerability, etc.
There’s a reason why Power builds are more “meta” than condition build in Tournament play. Condition builds are 3x as risky than Power.
protection, toughness, reflects~
there are actually relatively very few spells that do high dmg and you should be dodging them; condis on other hand are often easy to apply (via AA, persistent aoe etc.)
i wouldn’t say condis are OP, burning is too strong though and certain sigils srsly need to go or nerfed (cough doom)
condi builds are nowhere 3x risky than power lol
go play s/f zerker ele or thief and then try to play condi engi or necro~
reason why condi builds are not used as much atm (they used to be btw, engi+ necro stacking condis and then spreading it in team fights was nasty and popular tactics back then; also not to forget dhumfire and spirit ranger meta) is because of buffs to eles, engis, shoutbow and co. in past year and no change to that in this year (besides shoutbow)
also condis are more made for longer fights, where in high tier tourneys players can afford to run squishy builds (due to high skill level) and posses enough coordination to make max use of focused burst
Thief is not meant to win 1v1s, it is meant to win games.
says who?
What happend is: dev responsible for thieves tried to balance them. Devs responsible for other classes went for power creep. In vacuum thieves are fine, in comparison to other classes not so much. Nerf to SE, entire SA traitline, los of stats and never implemented but listed changes (cough withdraw) didn’t help either. DPS trait lines are quite discouraging if you compare to other classes. Not to mention that condis (thief weakness) and mesmers (that fill same role) got buffed by a lot.
Good thieves are still wanted thanks to moblity/team support (assuming you enjoy being stealth/rez/decap/set up the kills for other pet for your team) but i am guessing for mediocre/average/soloq thief there is no place in pvp atm. Those rerolled mesmers probably~
I don’t think thieves are in THAT bad position (could be worse, see rangers~)
Some toning down of other classes would help us a lot. Certanly more weapon varierity would be welcome but one can just dream and given Anet interraction with the class i highly doubt anything good will be happening in that direction any time soon~
Be happy they didn’t nerf anything again, as always~
After patch the hero panel says i have to relearn all traits/skills again even though i already did.
I was logged off in HotM if it matters.
Achieves are gone as well.
I agree, bug (blinding on shatter) that almost made me quit this game along with mantra recharge bug got fixed. Mes GS got some nerf. Rampage got some nerf as well. THIEVES DIDN’T GET NERFED FOR ONCE HOLY CRAP! I CAN’T BELIEVE MY EYES! D8 /dance
This is might be not most amazing patch (eles still not touched) but it is a good patch! Thank you, whoever implemented this changes!
Even if they made the Vigor on Feline Grace to have 300s duration with no ICD, Feline Grace would still remain a totally lackluster trait compared to what it was before, and to what it SHOULD be now that everything got buffed.
Tbh, i think thief weapon sets in general need to be reworked so all of them have 5 useful spells and not just d/p. That way they don’t need to heavily rely on one trait to be viable.
Hey guize, i beat that one mes in 1v1 (before today’s patch), i think thieves are OPeh!!! (I mean let’s ignore the fact that that mesmer i faced missed every single shatter and tried to use mantra on me while i had stability on).
I actually think it was a good patch. Mesmer game breaking bugs got fixed. Rampage nerfed a bit. WE DIDN’T GET NERFED; WHEW!!!!!! Srsly, be happy they don’t look so much at us, because every time they do we just get more nerfs~
And I haven’t gotten a single match with more than 2 mesmers on a team at all.
Hooray, I can give meaningless anecdotal evidence too!
i wish i could say that about other classes…. mesmers are only class i see stacked atm, in every match
Yeah because of whiners like you. People now try to play mesmers as hotjoin heroes. Indeed quite OP.
i will stop “whining” when mesmers will stop relying on bugs and way too overbuffed traits….
i don’t think me or any person complaining about mesmers are real reason why everyone plays them; mesmers are too rewarding atm and anyone who faced one after patch can tell, why bother trying to play underperforming classes when you can play something strong…
actually, you sound like someone that will stop whining only when your main class is the one on top. Right now it’s a Mesmers issue, another patch later you will have another class to target. Why assume everyone here in the Mesmers forum is playing it because it is overpowered now? You have tried this class pre-patch when powerblock is immune on thieves and we are food for that class, you’ll understand why most of us are enjoying this time.
And you sound like someone who assumes too much knowing little to nothing about person you target.
Forums are created for feedback, if something is too broken then yes i will leave that feedback here, nobody forces you to read it.
Where did i say that everyone “here” play mesmer because they are overpowered? One of my best friends in game been maining mesmer for ages~
I did try mesmer before the patch, i had to so i would know how they work. Thieves weren’t immune to power block, certanly, weapon spells didn’t get affected by interrupt as much but utilities still did. On the other hand thieves get punished for not landing their spells due to initiative being global resource.
Mesmers weren’t “food” for thieves, yes thieves may have slight advantage in some situations but mainly, if teams were skilled it came down to who gets the jump first.
My friend rolled over countless thieves on his mes and that is pre-patch.
I am glad you enjoy this time but it shouldn’t be based on bugs and at costs of everyone else out there because franky at some point you will just have everyone else either reroll mesmer or simply quit pvp. Not that pvp community is big on first place. I would rather have semi balance and healthy pvp community than 1-2 broken classes and nobody to play against/with.
Also, the way i see, there are quite few older mesmer players who do not enjoy the current faceroll of the class.
as much as i can’t stand mesmers atm i don’t think those suggestions are good
what needs to happen is:
- shatter blind shouldn’t go through evades/dodge
- confounding suggestions should only stun when you actually interrupt something and should have decent ICD
- possibly move CS to other trait line so it has to compete with other good traits so mesmers can’t have all good things in 1
- mantras shouldn’t recharge in background as fast (arguably)
- passive phantasm 15% buff needs to be a trait again
- PU may need some adjustments in numbers
1. i don’t think that thieves are really that bad the issue is that other classes are too good atm
Yeah well, if other classes are too good then thief is really bad, right?
But an example why even thief vs thief is broken:
I duelled a D/P thief in wvw yesterday. First time around I used my usual roaming build = 01101, he got me easily. Second time around I changed my traits to 11001 and won. I need SA to deal with all the condis flying around but in the end the whole line is that weak that it’s no comparison to what a thief being able to use 11001 can do. My problem wasn’t my D/D, it was the SA line – If I trait into SA, I want something in exchange.
@Dev: Please don’t see this as another proof to nerf the offensive traits, how about some defense instead?
Let’s assume thieves are balanced (i think they are besides few bugs and few tweaks). That means that other classes need to be toned down. Why? Power creep is unhealthy for pvp.
Why do you base your opinion on wvw? Even devs said it is not balanced and never intended to. Also, why do you base your opinion on 1v1? This game is balanced around team pvp.
89% based on what statistics? I think it is safe to assume that number of thieves actually doing pvp is waaaaayyyyyyyyy lower than that.
Yes, thieves had some advantage over mes but not as much as mesmers have vs thieves atm for example. Or medi guards vs thieves. Besides it is team based game, you always had good chance to beat thief if teammates helped you (obviously same goes other way). From my personal experience, thief vs mes was similar to thief vs thief (whoever gets jump first).
Also, maybe my opinion is biased, as i didn’t play in low MMR for years now and don’t know how bad thief vs bad mesmers could be (besides when i rolled new accnt on NA and had around first 20 matches at the bottom tier).
I do get to see turret engi level of gameplay on mesmers now which spam mantras on me while i have stab on and can’t land single shatter on thief with 2 dodges only. Do we really want such players rewarded?
And I haven’t gotten a single match with more than 2 mesmers on a team at all.
Hooray, I can give meaningless anecdotal evidence too!
i wish i could say that about other classes…. mesmers are only class i see stacked atm, in every match
Yeah because of whiners like you. People now try to play mesmers as hotjoin heroes. Indeed quite OP.
i will stop “whining” when mesmers will stop relying on bugs and way too overbuffed traits….
i don’t think me or any person complaining about mesmers are real reason why everyone plays them; mesmers are too rewarding atm and anyone who faced one after patch can tell, why bother trying to play underperforming classes when you can play something strong…
