Guild Wars 2

just gonna chime in, don’t flame me!
i think burning ashes in current state need to go, too passive, too easy to trigger, too strong on a class that already has good survivability, prevents counterplay to fire attunement

as said in other trhread: maybe increase burning stack requirements to trigger it

i had similar match few days ago, had really new player facing team made of top esl players…. i felt bad for him :/

Had 4 eles on enemy team today, luckily they were total garbage, we barely won though. How does one even manage to balance the class so bad to the point that it can tank 3 players while dishing out zerker dmg and having close to thief moblity? Are they trying to make people quit pvp out of boredom or something?

Gaberen.4325:

If you want to add new titles atleast make them harder to obtain.
500 – 1000 wins in ranked maybe more.

1000 wins is not a lot for legendary title…<_<

SPESHAL.9106:

ronpierce.2760:

kitten.8746:

OminousClouds.4517:

ele and guardian just “BURING” that kill someone, need no skills, just bur burn and burn ,

is this BBQ War 2? learn to play? you’re kidding right?

may be we should start a new thread on how much burn damage we managed to take before biting the dust xD

Gotta love the damage per total amount of hits…
26 Poison ticks? 3k damage.
30 Torment ticks? 4.5k damage.
43 Bleed ticks? 8.6k damage.
49 burn ticks? Pirceless… Oh, I mean 50.7k damage…

This pretty much says it all.

How on earth does something so overbudget compared to other conditions go unnoticed during internal testing…much less a month after the patch???

it wasn’t unnoticed, it is intetional which is the sad part

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Cynz.9437:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Check the Guild Bank

Enjoy.

oh kitten bro, someone went on selling spree

will tell Hellbore to use some of it for NA arenas

thanks a lot

No problem. Since now I have permission for deposit…more things to come. At least it gives me a reason to play this game again.

Lol if you are bored, try to organzite some stuff with guild. Will keep you busy :P

DarkSyze.8627:

Time-Out Everybody!

Enjoy the show while nothing will happen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN0YN4-ek38

by AKGL Arkangeles

i thought it was hilarious watching multiple people chasing 1 thief and being all happy about it.._

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Check the Guild Bank

Enjoy.

oh kitten bro, someone went on selling spree

will tell Hellbore to use some of it for NA arenas

thanks a lot

i actually like how clean gw2 UI is, will never miss wow UI clogged with add-ons

i would love to see some passive proc traits icons on enemy maybe but that is

i have no problem tracking how many charges i have on stolen spell nor managing initiative w/o counting every single ini

idk i think being feared/stunned/dazes etc. is already well indicated; i would rather not have my screen cluttered with words

can agree on stomping animation, it should consider quickness/interrupts etc.

there is way to differ between stomping and rezzing (have to use right click instead of activation key) but UI option would be certanly welcome

I actually disagree on merciful ambush, combined with resilence of shadows it is one of the best things about thieves in pvp atm and what keeps them in meta

i won countless fights/matches thanks to that trait

i wouldn’t change it

We been positive for years, we are just fed up.

T raw.4658:

Why can’t the offending player pay the remaining player each 10 gold. So everytime u quite its a 40g penalty.

Bet that kitten stops REALLY fast

lol half of EU players would quit game given how everything in and around Frankfurt (where eu server is located) runs on wood and wasn’t fixed for years

i have to disagree on blinding ashes: this trait needs to go
eles have plenty of survival tools and passive blinding is last thing they needed
would rather see something more creative that requires more player intraction

this sigil wouldn’t solve anything especially considering ICD
would rather nerf mightstacking on bruisers (limit amount of stacks etc.)

Vague Memory.2817:

Chokolata.1870:

You are forgetting the passive procs from the trait lines. Also, aside from the shatter spike the Mesmer has sustained damage and more utility.

I was taking traits into consideration. How can you not? The point is a thief doesn’t have to worry about his single attack being divided into 4 smaller attacks, or put up 3 illusions in the first place. Nor can you proc air and fire sigils on shatters. As for sustain, an evade thief has on demand dodges, which no other class can boast.

- nah thief just has to worry to not get interrupted while gaining stealth, not get killed while trying to get behind the target and actually land backstab before stealth runs out… oh and let’s completely ignore the fact that shatter is aoe and bs is single target dmg

- you CAN proc air/fire with shatter, please don’t lie for the sake of argument

- thief with evades doesn’t have backstab…. unless they run sd/dp which is rather worthless to his team due to lack of sb support.. not to mention they would have to run acro trait line thus either dropping SA or DA which are pretty mucn mandatory atm
also evade is not sustain, you can avoid some dmg yes, but evade doesn’t give any dmg mitigation nor heals

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

rchu.8945:

nomdeplums.5780:

Elementalist would be perfectly fine if they removed Celestial amulet.

nice try, but no. Ele needs more nerfs than just that.

Hahahahahahahahahaha, lol.

Removing celestial amulet removes eles from the game, simple as that.

No, it doesn’t. They will just have to sacrifice something to deal dmg or have higher survival (like other classes do and should be).

Lol i wanted actually to make similar thread: all i see is 2-3 eles on each team, many matches now end up with running out of time and not teams reaching 500+ pts

most fights are just total snooze fest :s

at least i play thief and can just roam around; i can only imagine how boring it is for any half decent ele atm though

- blinding ashes need to go
- burning needs its base dmg reduced
- either fire trait line or fire attunement spells need some adjustments in numbers as well

NinjaEd.3946:

Maugetarr.6823:

“Mos Eisley Spaceport The thief forum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious.”

-devs

Joking aside, this place can be pretty hostile towards devs. I can understand why they wouldn’t want to spend their spare time here. No one wants to work hard at something just to be yelled at.

Work hard? In what moment has there been any evidence of a dev working kitten thief? The released some short videos explaining thief in fractals (only to die repeatedly) and show us how various skills proc signet of malice healing and small features of thief. There is no passion for thief from anet, and its grown more and more apparent with these balance updates. They really should show the community some effort and I’d be willing to bet any rude or uncalled for comments will be quickly shut out by the numerous thief fanatics who want a meaningful discussion with the developers.

I sincerely doubt the respectful thief players would rage at anet if they opened such a thread, even if it feels justified. We just want progress.

i was remember that one, was beyond comical

Zenith.7301:

Behind the target lol. The sides will do.

not necessary…. now imagine if shatter had positional requirement~

Do you have a link for that build by chance?

Amineo.8951:

Removing Stealth from Mesmer would fix a lot of things, this belongs to Thief just like Aegis belongs to Guardian, and then it would stop being a faceroll class in any game mode…

actually i think mes do need stealth, just not as much as they have it atm
adjustment to PU and pledge would be better choice, imo

I been facing rather weird mesmer build lately. They didn’t do extremely high dmg however they took little damage, from the enemy view it looked like their HP bar was barely moving despite all the focus fire. In fact they stood still probably half of the fight w/o casting anything.

I think they were running mantras and dueling/inspiration trait line and staff. But beyond that i am not sure. What build could it be?

abc.5790:

Cynz.9437:

abc.5790:

Cynz.9437:

Vapour.7348:

Cynz.9437:

DaShi.1368:

The d/d ele simply isn’t as OP as you think it is. 90% of it’s damage can be mitigated just by moving around. The rest you have blocks, dodges, blinds, and cleanse for. Killing a d/d ele can be tough, but getting killed by one…I can’t remember the last time.

um those tactics may have worked before patch when it was actually possible to interrupt ele in fire w/o being perma blinded, when CDs on fire weren’t so low and burning didn#t stack and didn’t have such absurd base numbers…..

blind is close to worthless vs ele besides very few cases as most of theit dmg is aoe or channeled

oh i am sry i can count very few builds that actually have blocks and none of them are effective vs current dd ele

no cleanse in game can keep up with ele condi uptime (besides other ele ofc)

yeah it just takes at least 2 players or another ele to kill 1 ele…. balance archived guize!

My last match our ele beat 2 thieves at home and was boasting how good he was coz his HP was full. I wanted to say it was Anet’s ele programmer that was good. But seriously, I think we have a problem when one class can effortlessly beat 2 thieves and still have full HP.

i was talking about similar skill level but yeah you got the idea

I think she’s a pro girl thief

why do i get a weird feeling of being stalked

lol. what? no

It’s just rare to see females pvp with the hardest class to master in a community with a 1:50 female to male ratio. That’s pretty cool, you know. I failed at thief

Well i would rather not advertise it.
Also, each its own. I could never find any love for engi or ranger when i tried those classes. I am however glad when i have good engi on my team for example

Zenith.7301:

Cynz.9437:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Cynz.9437:

Tealots.6095:

The worst thing about fighting thieves are the Runes of Vampirism…

You realize mesmers are sole reason why every single thief is forced into this rune in pvp? Before patch i wouldn’t even touch it, now i have no choice.

The point is that they shouldn’t be allowed to have it. They should just die. This goes for all classes.

If this is how game would get balanced we would end up with only mesmers in game and it would be very boring

Oh please, thief hero. You’ve erased every single berserker spec in the game from the meta before mesmers got buffed and now that there’s another apex berserker in the game you’re in “buff thieves” propaganda mode again.

Shouldn’t you be in the pvp forums telling people on stealth abuse/spamming backstab on blocks/blinds “l2p” instead of polluting our forums?

If only my mindwrack refunded its cooldown and clones whenever it was blocked/blinded.

Dat salt lol

Thieves didn’t “erase” every single zerker build from pvp, the main culpit was and will stay conquest mode. It favors bruisers and always will due to its nature. Thieves had their spot in pvp only because of their moblity really. Why? Once again only because of the nature of conquest.

Also, before recent balance patch plenty of teams ran mesmes. One of my best friends in game been running mes for ages, won multiple tourneys and crapped on most thieves. I personally loved to run pain train with good mes pre patch, so i don’t see how there were no zerkers in pvp (also RF rangers did/do exist and decent ones were a threat).

Please show me where i ask for massive buffs to thieves (besides making fun of some stupid comments). If you actually do check my history you will find that i think thieves are OK atm, they may need bit help in survival department but otherwise they are fine and what really should happen is that other classes should get toned down to thief level of risk/reward/opportunity costs.

Please show me where i made a post saying L2P. Please do. Even better joke: i just posted in this very thread some info for mes how he can deal with thieves. Where did i write l2p in it?
Yes, i did join discussions about anti-stealth mechanics but that is what discussions are for. You may agree, you may disagree, same goes for me but please don’t assume i just run around forums spamming l2p. That just shows your ignorance.

Here is the thing with so called spammable backstab: it requires stealth (which achieved via blowing long CD (which doesn’t get instantly reset) or using initative which doesn’t get instantly refunded), it requires you to be behind the target, it requires you to expose yourself to all possible cleave/CC, it requires you to actually run hight crit to do any meaningful dmg thus sacrificing defensive stats/traits, it is a single target dmg….. If you really think backstab is free and superior to mindwrack, then we must be playing different game.

abc.5790:

Cynz.9437:

Vapour.7348:

Cynz.9437:

DaShi.1368:

The d/d ele simply isn’t as OP as you think it is. 90% of it’s damage can be mitigated just by moving around. The rest you have blocks, dodges, blinds, and cleanse for. Killing a d/d ele can be tough, but getting killed by one…I can’t remember the last time.

um those tactics may have worked before patch when it was actually possible to interrupt ele in fire w/o being perma blinded, when CDs on fire weren’t so low and burning didn#t stack and didn’t have such absurd base numbers…..

blind is close to worthless vs ele besides very few cases as most of theit dmg is aoe or channeled

oh i am sry i can count very few builds that actually have blocks and none of them are effective vs current dd ele

no cleanse in game can keep up with ele condi uptime (besides other ele ofc)

yeah it just takes at least 2 players or another ele to kill 1 ele…. balance archived guize!

My last match our ele beat 2 thieves at home and was boasting how good he was coz his HP was full. I wanted to say it was Anet’s ele programmer that was good. But seriously, I think we have a problem when one class can effortlessly beat 2 thieves and still have full HP.

i was talking about similar skill level but yeah you got the idea

I think she’s a pro girl thief

why do i get a weird feeling of being stalked

obligatory bump and 15 naked charrs

bamperino… let’s run cof p1!

Ross Biddle.2367:

Cynz.9437:

Tealots.6095:

The worst thing about fighting thieves are the Runes of Vampirism…

You realize mesmers are sole reason why every single thief is forced into this rune in pvp? Before patch i wouldn’t even touch it, now i have no choice.

The point is that they shouldn’t be allowed to have it. They should just die. This goes for all classes.

If this is how game would get balanced we would end up with only mesmers in game and it would be very boring

<_<
relative simple~

ele is snooze fest atm, literary mash any keys, collect points…. i wouldn’t suggest it

necro may be fun but really slow, not for everyone

engi is probably better choice for complexity, mechanical skill etc.

if you really want to play high skill cap class, try thieves…. they are not exactly most broken thing atm but they are very mobile, quick, require good reaction time, can be quite demanding mechanically and are very very risky atm (which makes them so fun)… problem ofc is learning curve but tbh engi is also not exactly a class you can be good at within few matches

gl with engi :P

I think it is 2 separate issues:
- one is usuall EU lag (sad that it is a common thing)
- other one is a bug imo; since the balance patch i been noticing random long delay on skill execution like i would have slow on my character w/o any debuff on the status bar

for me it came mostly when i used hidden thief steal and tried to execute backstab…. it took sometimes 2-3 sec for backstab animation to play through….

panda the chop chop.4712:

do you not know how to kite?
do you not know how to evade?
do you not know how to interupt skills?
do you not know how to cc
do you not know how to stealth
do you not know how to spike that person down first ?
do you not know how to condi clear?

Cool your in a 5v5 and its chaotic for you and your overwhelmed and your burning stacks go high, but that’s the issue your not experienced enough to do said above..

-snip-

This is why no one “at the high level” goes on these forums because its full of people who complain literally subconsciously about their own skill level.

For ele (which are main complain atm):

- kiting ele is in many cases not possible or good idea due to:
a) eles are really mobile
b) kitting will lose you point; gl killing ele on point though, by them time you manage to kill ele his team probably gain few hundret points from that one point

- evade doesn’t help vs persistent aoe or channeled spells

- interrupt ceased to be an option since blinding ashes were introduced

- CC is hard to land on ele due to evades, absurd amount of dodges, stab, shocking aura and once again blinding ashes

- stealth doesn’t help vs burning since application is faster than SE (if you run it) can cleanse it and faster than stealth application; also stealth gives ele too much time to heal up

- the only time i ever saw ele being spiked is when me and one of the top mes on EU nuked not expecting ele at far point at the exactly same second; in most cases ele has multiple ways to survive spikes hence why current matches are total snooze fest as it takes too long to kill one

- there is not a single class in game (ironically besides ele) that can cleanse burning as frequently

The statment about players being inexperienced and overhelmed in fights is just your assumption and based on no facts. I don’t see how it is an argument in any way.

Hight tier players don’t post here because it is pointless. The high tier ele i know (which won esl multiple times) said that dd ele atm is too strong and fire line needs nerfing.

Now to other classes like burn guards and engis: once again the problem is that burning application is often aoe, instant or persistent aoe, basically pretty passive and hard to avoid.

I think burning base numbers should get reduced so players would be forced to run actual condi build with corresponding runes/sigils to make use of burning. Instant skills shouldn’t apply so many stacks. Passive skills shouldn’t apply burning as frequently.

Zero Day.2594:

Cynz.9437:

Zero Day.2594:

Cynz.9437:

a scapegoat for all qq, that what we are

The QQ’s ceased… I’m kind of starving actually…

It’s probably Free-Loot bag, that’s the role. But it’s not really, because, you know, it’s just hard to master. Yup. Legit.

---

ixon.2496:

If we thieves really want a response, why not flood the other professions sub forums that ACTUALLY get noticed.

I’m willing to risk infraction for that, hell im risking infraction condoning it xD

I did try to organize something like that once, no one really followed through.

dude you are not looking good enough, check pvp and wvw forums, people still cry that thieves dare to have spot in tourneys

:/ I guess I’m used to having the QQ’s to come our forums…

i found this gem lately https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Thieves-1/first#post5387274

enjoy

Tealots.6095:

The worst thing about fighting thieves are the Runes of Vampirism…

You realize mesmers are sole reason why every single thief is forced into this rune in pvp? Before patch i wouldn’t even touch it, now i have no choice.

@OP: PU+ condis are your friend.
If you do run shatter:
– the most crucial thing for thief will be always steal. If they land it they get good things from it, if they miss it it might cost them entire fight. As seasoned thief player it is usually relative easy to predict when enemy will be using steal (feel for timing, combination of skills etc). However, avoiding steal as non-thief player might be hard due to lack of experience and no standard formula. All i can say, make sure you land shatter and run blind on shatter trait; steal is 20 sec CD so count time; most thieves run mug so if they are low on HP they are likely to use to to get 2k heal; thieves with improvisation trait will give you hard times because they get double plasma (which however can be interrupted) so make sure you dodge/blind/block/stealth up steal.
Now there is varierity in thief build: quite some thieves run hidden thief (stealth on steal). If they are not running it you may predict steal if it is off CD and thief is about to use bp+hs+steal combo.

- most common build dp runs only with 2 dodge; bait them through canceling GS animations but not actually casting zerker etc; use zerker for garanteed dodge; count dodges – if thief dodged 2 times you can safely shatter in most cases (unless thief is smart and will stealth up before that).

- bad thieves sit in mid of refuge and eat all cleave; good thieves sit on very side edge of refuge and usually avoid all cleave…. just to give you a clue

- shadowshot is has quite good tell so try to watch for it; it also gets body blocked by clones…. so try to have your pets between you and thief

- bp+hs interrupt is huge

- look at their status bar: if they run inf. signet it means they have 3 stun breaks; if they don’t run inf. signet, means they run blinding powder…. make use of your stuns and that knowledge

- thief in sb may be annoying but has way less defensives while being locked in that set, put pressure on them if they camp it

Generally, any fight vs zerkers is about who gets jump on whom (mesmers have better chances here atm), who is better at mind games and has better reaction. Stow weapon, blinds and counting dodges are your friends.

P.S. in pvp maps: abuse terrain, there are plenty of spots (uneven terrain, rocks etc.) that thief can’t teleport to but you can still dps them full with GS.
P.S.S. map awarness is biggest thief enemy: count enemies, watch where thief is going. If you see him comming your way, await hs+ steal.

1. They don’t want to read walls of text for sure.
2. I am also sure most thieves would leave feedback in civilized manner as well as hold discussion with devs w/o spitting toxicity if there was a dev that actually was interested in putting effort to learn this profession and improve it instead of seeing thief balancing as unpleasant chore instead of fun challenge…. We are not monsters after all and we are all interested in the healthy class. It is all up to devs.
3. Reading Anet ex-workers feedback about company i highly doubt any of them have time for us (nor would get paid for it).

Zero Day.2594:

Cynz.9437:

a scapegoat for all qq, that what we are

The QQ’s ceased… I’m kind of starving actually…

It’s probably Free-Loot bag, that’s the role. But it’s not really, because, you know, it’s just hard to master. Yup. Legit.

---

ixon.2496:

If we thieves really want a response, why not flood the other professions sub forums that ACTUALLY get noticed.

I’m willing to risk infraction for that, hell im risking infraction condoning it xD

I did try to organize something like that once, no one really followed through.

dude you are not looking good enough, check pvp and wvw forums, people still cry that thieves dare to have spot in tourneys

Vapour.7348:

Cynz.9437:

DaShi.1368:

The d/d ele simply isn’t as OP as you think it is. 90% of it’s damage can be mitigated just by moving around. The rest you have blocks, dodges, blinds, and cleanse for. Killing a d/d ele can be tough, but getting killed by one…I can’t remember the last time.

um those tactics may have worked before patch when it was actually possible to interrupt ele in fire w/o being perma blinded, when CDs on fire weren’t so low and burning didn#t stack and didn’t have such absurd base numbers…..

blind is close to worthless vs ele besides very few cases as most of theit dmg is aoe or channeled

oh i am sry i can count very few builds that actually have blocks and none of them are effective vs current dd ele

no cleanse in game can keep up with ele condi uptime (besides other ele ofc)

yeah it just takes at least 2 players or another ele to kill 1 ele…. balance archived guize!

My last match our ele beat 2 thieves at home and was boasting how good he was coz his HP was full. I wanted to say it was Anet’s ele programmer that was good. But seriously, I think we have a problem when one class can effortlessly beat 2 thieves and still have full HP.

i was talking about similar skill level but yeah you got the idea

DaShi.1368:

Placing it strategically should be rewarding. It’s not really a strong skill because it can so easily be avoided. Eles who work hard to get you to go through it should be rewarded for that. Otherwise, it’s just a fire field or combo off of.

what part about current dd ele is hard?

style.6173:

If you think that a thief shouldn’t be +1 a fight, you are new to the game. This is part of my problem with thieves. They literally have no clue how to contribute to a team and are the biggest reason for the loss.

Yes, your role is to +1 a fight. It is much broader than that though as well. Know when to fight, when to distract, and when to decap.

dd ele can +1 just as good as thief atm and has way better dmg, cc and survival

DaShi.1368:

The d/d ele simply isn’t as OP as you think it is. 90% of it’s damage can be mitigated just by moving around. The rest you have blocks, dodges, blinds, and cleanse for. Killing a d/d ele can be tough, but getting killed by one…I can’t remember the last time.

um those tactics may have worked before patch when it was actually possible to interrupt ele in fire w/o being perma blinded, when CDs on fire weren’t so low and burning didn#t stack and didn’t have such absurd base numbers…..

blind is close to worthless vs ele besides very few cases as most of theit dmg is aoe or channeled

oh i am sry i can count very few builds that actually have blocks and none of them are effective vs current dd ele

no cleanse in game can keep up with ele condi uptime (besides other ele ofc)

yeah it just takes at least 2 players or another ele to kill 1 ele…. balance archived guize!

DaShi.1368:

Sorry that you’re having such a hard time as thief.

actually i feel sry for all those eles that collect points by drooling on keyboard right now…. one day the build will be gone and most of them will be as useless as ex-turret engis~

DaShi.1368:

OMG, comboing skills. OP! OP!

i can only dream of having same dmg, same survival, same CC, same team and same moblity all in one build on my thief or necro…..

why is it ok for ele to have it all and be very effective at it?

DaShi.1368:

Vapour.7348:

3 burning stacks every time it’s crossed (plus physical damage at cast) with a short 10s traited cd is probably the most powerful burning skill in the game.

With absolutely no counterpla…wait, just don’t cross the flames. Who thinks crossing flames should be a good thing?

because eles don’t have any other skill to force you out of circle~

Sagat.3285:

Cynz.9437:

Lol my guess is they are trying to ruin every single build thieves currently have so players actually would have to run new spec thus forced to buy xpac….. dirty tactics, pathetic~

If reliable cleansing and endurance(not vigor) regen is found in the new line I’ll believe you.

we will see

Lol my guess is they are trying to ruin every single build thieves currently have so players actually would have to run new spec thus forced to buy xpac….. dirty tactics, pathetic~

ixon.2496:

If we thieves really want a response, why not flood the other professions sub forums that ACTUALLY get noticed.

I’m willing to risk infraction for that, hell im risking infraction condoning it xD

would but can’t~

Shockwave.1230:

+1ing is a perfectly effective strategy. That’s why you see so many teams taking a thief, because the strategy gets results and Thief does it well.

The main role a thief plays currently is using it’s mobility to +1 or decap. It may not be the role everyone likes to play, but it’s what the meta build is good at.

Saying that what thief is good at is not a role, when it’s actually what thief does to get results is denial.

It’d be better to present constructive feedback on how to improve thief at other roles and ask for more role options than to complain in denial about what actually does work, since it’s better to have 1 meta build than 0.

The point is, +1 is not a role, it is feature. And best joke is there are plenty of classes that can do +1 pretty well w/o being so absurdly squishy (eles, mes).

let me guess: eu….

They are not going to answer you: reality is, too many players rolled thief (for RP purposes/pve mainly) and this class will continue get nerfed to garbage tier for the sake of:
- reducing numbers of thieves in game to improve statistics
- to please QQing masses

Oh and obviously they will never admit that none of them ever touched thief or they would know about backstab bug for example or wouldn’t embarass themself so badly on POI stream by not knowing neither trait names nor what they do.

a scapegoat for all qq, that what we are