Guild Wars 2

much bamp and 15 characters

i miss soloq

They shouldn’t have combined soloq and teamq on first place :/

It is like: dear majority of community, we hate you and would like to punish you for pvp’ing.

i support this thread

so yeah… we had to win 4 matches instead of 2 because of this bug :|

and again…. fix it please :<

whole team crashed at the same time in pugquest just now

persistet aoe, stuns, channeled skills, blinds, blocks, body blocks (pet, clones and co.), weakness…. just to name few

Fay.2357:

apharma.3741:

Yeah I’ve got my eye on this but we’ll see how it goes in the reveals and stuff. Just as mesmers wouldn’t/didn’t like people crying about chrono being OP before release and everything I don’t think we should cry either.

I don’t think it seems OP, but I’m a little miffed at them giving power block mechanics to another class, particularly the one that’s immune to it.

but it is totally OK for mes have mechanics from other classes lol

Killyox.3950:

Ever got the idea that the class is not for you? I mean it has been marketed as a squishie requiring precise dodging and stealthing to stay alive since forever. You picked it despite that.

You shouldn’t have high hopes for Thief having passive defense like guardian or some of the other classes.

It is fine for it to be squishy, but it also should be doing high dmg. High risk, high reward. The problem is that we have other classes that have waaaaayyy lower risk than thieves while dishing out just as much dmg. Where does it fit in?

Whole issue is that Aner decided to forget about risk vs reward correlation while led to such issues in pvp atm. Simply put, If thief didn’t have sb 5, there would be 0 thieves in pvp atm. This is reality and new spec doesn’t fix that issue.

How are people even suppose to pick prof properly when thief description says:
Experts at stealth and surprise, thieves can move through the shadows, vanish into thin air, or steal items from their opponents and use them as weapons. Thieves practice an agile, acrobatic fighting style, which can make them very hard to hit.

- They are not experts in stealth, mesmers are atm
- surprise? mes/engis can do it just as good
- vanish in thin air (hi mes/engis can do just as well)
- steal is only true description
- practice in agile …. except they forgot to mention that those builds don’t work with stealth

Ini: “This allows thieves to stay flexible and responsive in combat and unleash a rapid flurry of powerful attacks.”
- as far as i am aware thief weapon skills are made rather weak intentionally because they are spammable… this this flurry of powerful attacks is rather a lie

" Stealing does not break stealth, and cannot be used often. "
- yes it does if you trait mug

“When using a main-hand and off-hand weapon combination, thieves have access to a spectacular Dual Skill that is determined by their weapons. For example, thieves with two daggers will receive the Leaping Death Blossom skill,”
- do i need to comment on this one?

“With Shadow Step, thieves can teleport into the battle or away from danger. "
- yeah we forgot to mention that all this teleporting gets countered by tiny rock on the way or slope… or other terrain texture lol

Kidel.2057:

Cynz.9437:

Kidel.2057:

It’s either dps or survivability. You can’t have both at max, you’re forced to do hybrid builds to have both and give up a bit of them. The concept is perfect.

Or do you actually think that bunker Guardians do dps?

Daredevil is an evasion tank if you spec into dodges. You can also spec into damage however. Not going to survive much more then now, but you still have stealth and 1 more dodge.

… and then we have dd eles, engis and mesmers…. which throw your concept out of window

except none of them can do damage and conditions while dodging, or run fast enough to cap multiple points.
This thing can blink to points as a thief and also keep them as a bunker.
Plus stealthed assassinations with the elite skill and group support with staff and daggers.

It’s going to be a must in pve and probably a little bit OP in pve. Even Karl took almost no damage from Svanir and he claimed to be winning a lot against Roy.

nah they can do it while evading….. or sitting in stealth…. or in defensives (see fields, clones, casting shatter while being invul etc.)… BURNING SPEED?

yes, thief has good moblity but honestly current meta ele or mes isn’t much slower…. they can travel between points just as fast just with different mechanics (ele burning speed, swiftness, RFL, FGS; mes port blinks etc.)

i do not see “this thing” keeping points like bunker….. yes evades are annoying, but they are not countless and there are still vulnerability frames in between; 1-2 hits you are dead

stealthed assassination with elite skill? excuse me? as far as i am aware elite skill with reveal you if you use it in stealth, it can be also blinded, blocked, dodged, body blocked by clones etc.

staff has group support ? where lol

daggers have group support? where lol

Well they did make a change that prevents players under rank 20 to take part on ranked, so no leagues for them. The problem with that is even if you reach rank 20 you are still usually far from being amazing and even if you are really good it is impossible to carry team alone.

High tier players punished even more. You don’t have a team, you constantly get paired with pugs (which is ok) but all you face is top ESL teams and players multiple times in a row (happend to me countless times). Add to that absurd class imbalance (sup dd eles). How the hell are you suppose to win any matches in such situation? How are you suppose to get any rewards when all you do is getting farmed in ranked by top ESL teams? Why even bother pvp at that point? Soloq and teamq NEED TO BE SEPARATED.

I honestly don’t understand why Anet is so stubborn and punishes majority of player base (soloq players) for pure existence. Wasn’t favoritism of certain group of players an offense? What happend to that?

i really really really really hope they will separate soloq and teamq or leagues will be huge fail due to
- premades vs pugs
- carries for gold
- uneven matchmaking
- faaaarmingggg
- soloq players (which are majority) having 0 chance to get any high tier rewards regardless skills → no motvation to pvp → people quiting

Kidel.2057:

It’s either dps or survivability. You can’t have both at max, you’re forced to do hybrid builds to have both and give up a bit of them. The concept is perfect.

Or do you actually think that bunker Guardians do dps?

Daredevil is an evasion tank if you spec into dodges. You can also spec into damage however. Not going to survive much more then now, but you still have stealth and 1 more dodge.

… and then we have dd eles, engis and mesmers…. which throw your concept out of window

staff – pve
utilities – nice but not usable w/o spec, get countered by blocks/blinds/body blocking/interrupts etc.; also kind of root you in place
heal is worthless – HEY SOMEONE INTERRUPT ME PLZ
elite is nice, suffers same issue as utilities
traits are nice for s/x builds
no team support
not much synergy with rest of weapons
Karl is so excited about weakness BUT it doesn’t affect condis which are frankly main reason we die in pvp (cough burning)
meh

overall alternative build for evade builds, nothing special otherwise

Staff seems like pve weapon to me. Animations are too long and not enough utility for pvp.

Physical are nice but locked to spec and can be countered by dazes/blinds/body blocking etc.

Traits are probably most interesting aspect, seems like it can go well with acro. However i don’t see that trait line going well with d/x builds. Meaning it is s/x or gtfo. Kind of boring.
Also, build has 0 team support which we really needed. SA is still superior in that area.

I can see why people are getting excited, but personally i don’t think there will be anything i will be using from new spec (sb, dp > staff, trait line selfish and only works with s/x, utilities not usable w/o spec), for team pvp that is. Disappointed~

I bet if thieves were as broken and versatile they would get nerfed within 2 days.

All they need to do is nerf defensive traits from fire line and reduce stats on celestial amy. But nah, let’s completely ignore elephant in the room.

acro 2.0

/15 naked charrs with apples

Every day that dd eles with fire trait line run unchecked is Anet showing us…. well… yeah.

i call sd/sb acro trickery dd

bump with 15 apples… and charrs~

nobody gonna play staff in pvp, it is pure pve weapon: it lacks evades or stealth, gap closers and utility… compared to sd or dp that is

what you really should be worried about is sd running new spec

Archaon.9524:

Terrorsquad.4802:

inb4 Anet takes this post seriously and nerfs stealth next week.

buff burning asap.

they may do that for real lmao

yeah….. knowing devs i wouldn’t be surprised…. let’s ignore main issue and nerf something unrelated <<<<their common actions :s

that’s just marketing propaganda

if you read traits/utilities/weapon skills you will realize most things said in introduction are …. uh…. how to put it nicely…. overexaggerated?

you won’t be seeing any staff thieves in pvp

new spec is different story though, i think sd trickery/acro/dd might be a thing
no change for dagger builds though due to low synergy

Forums essentially are made for complains. Players that are happy with game play it instead of posting on forums. If negativity bothers you so much, then just don’t read forums. Nobody forces you.

OP, WHO are YOU to tell other people what to do? People have right to have own opinion and express it here, weither you like it or not. Frankly, you are actually one of those posters that “pollute” forums because you come here, judge other posters based on your very subjective opinion and actually dare to tell them what to do. Arrogant much?

i am actually more interested to see weither devs finally learned thief traits xD

all i dream about is /teabag emote…. there used to be one in CoH/CoV – your character pulls out a cup and puts in a teabag and pulls it out (rinse and repeat)

i thought people knew about this bug lol

Why community is negative? 3 years of constant nerfs on nerfs, lying and frankly trolling.
HoT hype and all spec offered is acro 2.0. They nerfed acro for the sake of new spec so they can sell HoT which was pathetic move.

New spec didn’t introduce any new role thief could fill. We are still +1 pet, that heavily relies on teammates to babysit him.
New spec has only synergy with evade builds (sword/x), nothing new for the rest zzzz.

Laraley.7695:

The problem is not the class itself, but the skill level of the people who play it. If it’s soloq, then two thieves are not a problem if they know what they’re doing. I’ve had many games when I had two thieves and we won easily.

Thief is an attractive class for people, but it definitely takes more time and experience to master compared to specs you can just be sort of effective with the moment you start playing the game. But yeah, class stacking is bad.

While i do agree class is not exactly easiest to play, there is something wrong. namely:

if 95% of thieves are bad, how come that 95% of engis or eles are not bad? Maybe it has something to do with class after all?

Class stacking isn’t bad. We all saw 4 ele 1 thief beating TCG last week.

Honestly, what i was hoping to see with staff: bruiser build that is more oriented on support, evades, blocking, blinds, CC, team buffs etc. Instead we got acro 2.0 with 0 team support :|

Auesis.7301:

It’s almost as if Elite specialisations are capable of enhancing existing aspects of the profession, like every single other one that was announced.

yeah too bad they had to actually destroy meta build just to they can sell spec…. lol

it is like: hey let me break your leg so i can sell you wheelchair super duper diamond pro 7000

Here is my impression (from pvp pov):
Conclusion: DISSAPOINTMENT, i won’t be using any of it probably.
Overall, i think d/p DA/SA/TR will be still meta. There certanly will be a lot of obnoxious sd builds with new spec but SA and stealth overall just offers way more team support than evade builds ever will. We really needed more team support options, new spec is totally selfish – a dissappointment. It also didn’t give us good ranged option which we really needed (sb is utility, pp is just a joke).
Also, the build is just acro 2.0/lockdown mes basically, there is 0 dmg mitigation options (so far we only have SA grandmaster minor for it). Meh.
My biggest fear is that they will nerf SA and non evade weapons heavily just to force people to buy xpac (just how they did with acro, which was frankly PATHETIC).

- staff is useless in pvp (lacks dmg, utility, stealth or evades)
- traits could work well with acro/trickery sd, i guess we will see quite some of them in pvp. Nothing for d/x, p/x builds tho…kind of dissapointing.
- phys. skills sound more like weapon skills tbh, the fact that you can use them with spec only is dissapointing as you are basically forced into evade build if you want to make use of them.I can see bandits and possibly distracting being used a lot in pvp, other skills are meh. Thief kind of needs his defensive utitlities. Refuge is still too good in conquest (for team rezzes, ganks etc.)
- heal is worthless for pvp due to channel (WHO THOUGHT IT WAS GOOD IDEA TO GIVE CLASS WITH LOW HP and no blocks, invuls, stab A CHANNELED HEAL EL OH EL?)

Traits:
Staff master – staff only, bleh. Staff dmg is ok but as stated it seems like pure pve weapon.

Lotus training – seems like condi build trait so something for wvw rather…. BUT has one big downside, it will reveal you probably if you are in stealth and try to dodge something. Given that most popular build condi build is pd, i see this trait being something like LR. Staff as condi weapon is not an option, dd is rather not so great as far as survival and utility goes. Frankly,. i don’t see use for this trait.

Endurance thief – seems like nice trait, trickery is a must though otherwise this trait is bit underwhleming. Probably will go for evade builds.

Driven Fortitude – very nice trait, rewards players for successfully evading something. Can see it work well together with vamp runes and maybe give opportunity to drop DA?

Escapist’s Absolution – well, it has been asked for ages. Sounds like a good trait, hopefully doesn’t override together with withdraw and other traits tho. Also, must run evade build to make this trait noticable. Not going to work well for d/x, p/x builds.

Evasive empowerment – 10% sounds good but might be all lost on AA. Would have to time dodges pretty well to make use of it, guess adds more of risk/reward into gameplay (not that thieves are not already risky). Real question is: is it stackable!?

Brawler’s Tenacity – good trait if you run physical skills. 10 endurance sounds bit low imo.

Unhidneret combantant – sounds ok, could be hard to use and probably be in conflict with some other skills like refuge.

Impacting disruption – sounds like weaker version of powerblock to me. What i find strange that it is unblockable, however our dazes are blockable. How will this work? The only combo i could think off is basi + choking bomb (unblockable).

Enforcer training – this is kind of bothersome, you can only use physical skills if you pick this trait. Meaning you can’t use them otherwise. Then again, it is the same for other specs. Oh well. 3rd endurance bar sounds fun.

Weakening strikes – i actually like this trait, a lot. Could work well vs direct dmg build. Downside: weakness can be transfered back pretty fast, duration of debuff is not given and it doesn’t affect burning (which is main reason of death nowdays).

Staff: non stealth weapon with stealth attack….. lol. AA is rather disappointing. It doesn’t have neither evades nor stealth (nor teleports for that matter) NOR good utilities/CCs. Straight out pve weapon (questionably) as (cmon filter) s/p is probably still better and has ironically better synergy with spec traits). I don’t see it being any useful in pvp/wvw. It straight out lacks everything d/p/sb or sd/sb have. Frankly, even dd is better than staff for pvp.

Utitlities:
Channeled Vigor – PLEASE INTERRUPT ME I AM ALL YOURS. Channeled heal on class with low HP, no blocks, stab or invuls – EL OH EL. Pve only, don’t see it being used anywhere in wvw or pvp.

Bandit’s Defense – that is what mirror of anguish should have been, more active version of that trait. 10 sec (8 traited) is hella low for stun break though, i can see this being nerfed HARD.

Fist fury – nasty dmg, ok CD. End effect is unblockable. I wonder if it roots you, probably does, which makes gaining palm strike rather hard to reach in pvp. Seems like another version of pistol whip w/o evade. More of pve skill imo.

Distracting daggers – omg mantras. Was kind of excited about this one, downside is: you have to pick spec trait line so bleh.

Imparing daggers – 25 cd on immob? eh idk…. given the dmg and slow it is ok i guess. Probably can be used together with fist fury, the issue you need 2 phys skills alone just to make it work.

Elite sounds really strong due to last portion (especially in current rez meta). 3 sec for execution (plz kill me while i am doing my karate) and can be body blocked tho. I feel like basi might end up still a better option.

thief clones + shatter?

Gabriell.4856:

Cynz.9437:

ronpierce.2760:

Cynz.9437:

it’s a broom, you fools… the spec is called “Janitor”

Photoshop or it didn’t happen.

datamined by shaman :P

jk beware of my drawing skills

The background fits the “Janitor” quite well. Look at all that dust!

srsly someone gotta clean that up

Sagat.3285:

Who is working on it?

the same guy that did tempest and dragonhunter :s

ronpierce.2760:

Cynz.9437:

it’s a broom, you fools… the spec is called “Janitor”

Photoshop or it didn’t happen.

datamined :P

it’s a broom, you fools… the spec is called “Janitor”

abc.5790:

Nothing to discuss about the 4 ele 1 thief comp.

I know you just want us to say what you want to hear Cynz….

Nerf thief pls, thief op.

nah dude…. what i really ment was:

LORD NEEDS BUFF… it can’t keep up with 5 FGS LOL

I like how none of mesmers ever mentiones following things when they talk about thief and mesmer dmg:
- bs is single target, shatter is AOE!!!!!!!!… in fact, most of mesmer burst affects multiple targets….the realistic dmg is way higher given that pvp in this game is hardly ever 1v1
- bs requires you to be in melee range, eat all cleave and also get behind the target; shatter doesn’t necessary
- shatter can be activated at any given point as long as it is off CD(you have plenty of time to set it up); bs is gated by stealth (ini, CDs), meaning if you don’t have ini/Cds or gain stealth you can’t execute BS, also you have very limited timeframe to do so as stealth doesn’t last long (w/o commiting long CDs)…. BS will ALWAYS punish thief with revealed debuff; mes burst doesn’t unless mes executed it from stealth.
- there is not a single trait for bs that removes boons, shatter does… traited steal does remove boons however while mes can activate 2 shatters consequentially, thief can’t steal 2-3 times in a row
- why does no mesmer ever take might stacks and vulnerability stacks in consideration? If mes is any good he will have 20 stacks on invul on you. Please show me how thief can do it in such short period of time.
- most of mes burst is done from range; thieves are forced to spent most of the time in melee if they want to do any meaningful dmg; i think risk/reward got completely ignored in the calculation which brings us to exectioner

- good joke, thieves should run it. Yes it is good, problem is, improvisation is kind of must have given how low thief survival. Thieves don’t have luxury like mesmers of having instant invuls, protection (PU), long stun locks that also deal dmg on top of it, extended stealth w/o sacrificing dmg/CC (ini vs separated CDs) and high HP. And please don’t tell me HP doesn’t matter: try to run zerker amulet on mes and on thief in current meta. On mes if you get spiked you still have bit HP left to react; on thief you just get instagibbed.

choovanski.5462:

firstly, theif obviously is good and has a role. every team runs one, and magic toker got MVP at WTS. neither of those would be the case if theif is a bad class with no role. just watch magic toker if you want to know how to be a pro seriously.

secondly theif pushes builds that are weak vs theif out of the meta. zerker warrior, zerker ele, zerker engi etc these are all weak vs a good theif, so people don’t run them much if at all. meta builds are all meta in part because they can deal with theif. because since every team runs a DP theif if your build is counterd by him he can just farm you all game. so people don’t run builds that are weak to theif.

thirdly, most thieves suck. the average theif you encounter in ranked or unranked blows. they fail around, 222222, hardly decap, and just downstate in teamfights. I’ve killed so many d/p thieves with hammer warrior. hammer warrior with a clerics amulet. they have blind spam but they just like to facetank idk why.
this is probably the main reason, it just seems too hard for the average theif to get better than average, or just to get ok at the class.

As said in other thread, good thief with good team can carry.
Good thief with bad team doesn’t have any impact, on opposite side good ele can carry pretty well <<this is core issue.

We do not have enough amazing players so they can fill “good team” for every thief out there; the reliance on your team to be good just to do well yourself for thief is just too huge compared to other classes. Thief used to be a threat, now it is a threat only when it helps 2 other teammates…………

bamp + 15 charrs with apples

…or they could just invest bit more time and do it right…… w/o butchering entire class.

yeah the only issue with that is that they would just flatout nerf sb5 and not give any meaningful buffs as compensation (based on Anet balancing history for 3 years now)

TCG runs 3 eles in finals (popcorn)

Kicast.1459:

It is just a matter of skill ;-)
kthxbye has a pretty good experience at highest level in pvp.
Thank you anet for letting such balance in place for so long.
At least we have time to appreciate it.

note: I feel the name of the team a bit trolly and salty :-)
Hope this won’t end soon.

not all of them main ele tho…<_<

…actually beats TCG on foefire. Discuss.

use hidden thief = mes cc reflect isn’t issue

Terrorsquad.4802:

Inb4 ele gets buffed

the joke is devs did implement suggestions from the thief nerf wishlist which was made as a joke…. they might take this one actually seriously as well based on their past actions~