Guild Wars 2

faker.7253:

/laugh

omg they are actually doing it xD

GrandHaven.1052:

Double stacking on any 2 builds/play styles (with the excpetion of ele) usually loses you the game.

not really

it depends on build and how strong that build is meta; i remember when stacking hambow was good, same goes for engis pre patch

on more serious note: ANYTHING that gives condi removal or extra boonstrip :<

must not engage fights…. must not engage fights…. must not engage fights <<<my mantra after patch

but but thieves are OP! they can +1!!!!! did you know? lol

ask devs why they decided to buff some classes and nerf thieves to the point where they can’t fight anything in this game anymore

iwin button………………………..

stof.9341:

Well supports are heroes that can do much, but really not THAT much alone :p And they are usually the easiest to kill.

So yeah, thieves really look like roaming supports in MOBAs XD

not true….. roaming supports (if they are played by good players) can kill enemies in 1v1

easiest to kill are squishy supports that babysit apc; you don’t roam on those tho

witcher.3197:

Cynz.9437:

witcher.3197:

Conquest isn’t a 1v1 arena and most of the roles don’t revolve around dueling so this isn’t the right way to look at it.

Yes, thief isn’t really good at 1v1s right now but it must have something it’s bad at if you give it great party utility, mobility and teamfight potential along with a 1.2k range interrupt that goes through stability on ~20sec CD just to mention a few things. Otherwise you end up getting another DD ele.

yeah good thing that everyone else counters thieves and somehow that logic applies only to thieves but no other class (sup mesmers)…

hey let’t go pvp, player vs player combat, except your role is to avoid combat 90% of the time~

Never said to avoid combat. Just don’t 1v1, which isn’t that hard in a 5v5 with secondary objectives.

but thieves aren’t great in team fights, if anything they get downed really fast if enemy team is not stupid…

It started to happen after “balance” patch. Sometimes some combos or spells are not executed or executed with very long delay, however it is not latency related as other skills work normally.

Example: steal with hidden thief -> trying to execute backstab, but it doesn’t go off, the character responds to movenet keys, dodge keys etc. but doesn’t execute backstab untill 1-2 sec of delay are over. The effect is very similar to slow condition except there is no slow condition on character.

Another example: black powder -> steal + hs = HS is executed with big delay.

witcher.3197:

Conquest isn’t a 1v1 arena and most of the roles don’t revolve around dueling so this isn’t the right way to look at it.

Yes, thief isn’t really good at 1v1s right now but it must have something it’s bad at if you give it great party utility, mobility and teamfight potential along with a 1.2k range interrupt that goes through stability on ~20sec CD just to mention a few things. Otherwise you end up getting another DD ele.

yeah good thing that everyone else counters thieves and somehow that logic applies only to thieves but no other class (sup mesmers)…

hey let’t go pvp, player vs player combat, except your role is to avoid combat 90% of the time~

DaShi.1368:

Thieves have pushed out so many builds that the only builds left are those that the thieves can handle easily. They created their own problem.

1. conquest favors bruiers
2. thief players totally created this game, rrrrright!

stof.9341:

Cynz.9437:

stof.9341:

Well +1 role looks really a lot like a MOBA roaming ganker. It IS a role really :p

yeah except roamers in moba can 1v1 and even 1v3 (depending how well fed they are)….. thieves on other hand….

Not all. Support roamers do it at like level 1 and can only gank by helping a lane in an unexpected way.

you are not srsly talking about roamer tanks in thread about thieves? is this a joke?

stof.9341:

Well +1 role looks really a lot like a MOBA roaming ganker. It IS a role really :p

yeah except roamers in moba can 1v1 and even 1v3 (depending how well fed they are)….. thieves on other hand….

+1 and lot of naked charrs with apples

yeah except he forgot to mention that mes has way more survival and dmg than thieves and is actually a threat, meanwhile thieves are a joke as far as combat goes

yeah guildmate notes would be nice, some games have it…. sadly this one doesn’t :<

oh man that’s priceless…..

let’s stand still and wait till thief attacks, let’t fight where he places traps xD

it’s two of them <<< i died

Personaly i have no problem with invul on mes itself, it is just combination of invul, stealth, ports, stun breaks, high CC and really high dmg (aoe to extend) in one build that really bothers me. I think some traits/skills need to be competing and not synergize so much.

I stole this idea from WoW: cheat death used to be rather neat trait that would bring your HP to certain amount (say 10-25%) if you got hit by attack that otherwise would kill you. Ofc it had ICD.

I think, given the current meta and how Anet has 0 interest in changing anything (cough mesmers) that forces us into vamp runes in pvp, we really need that trait.

Right now it is run vamp runes in competitive pvp or just don’t pvp at all. I think it is wrong that we have to so heavily rely on one bonus from entire rune set that is actually not even so great for us. Besides i am sure it won’t take long and this rune will be nerfed since everyone runs it and we will probably just have to afk at spawn when it happens.
I also highgly doubt that Anet would nerf aspects of other classes that forced us into this rune set just so thief class didn’t have to rely on it.

Discuss.

Chase.8415:

You have to keep in mind that there is no trinity in this game, so unlike other games where a DPS isn’t supposed to be tanky is factored in because they depend on healers in group combat.

Since there are no healers in the game, typically defensive builds are the best to run in PVP. It has to be the perfect balance between defense and damage pressure.

Historically in the past 3 years, a full damage build really wasn’t effective except for thieves because they had a high stealth uptime.

Now that traits are not locked to stats, it is now very common for defensive builds.

While you may think the game is overpowered, it’s actually quite balanced. In other video games, the match can literally be determined by the team composition before it starts. In this game, that is not the case.

- Holy trinity applies only to pve really; if we go by idea that everyone can do everything then why are certain classes sooooooo good at everything and other classes only at one role? That is imbalance just right here. Besides if every class would be good at every role game would be very homogen and boring.

- “Defensive” builds are favored because of nature of conquest. And actually healers do exist in this game (see eles, bunker guards etc.). Once again, the problem we have is that some classes can run builds with strength in every role (ele atm, engis pre patch) and other can’t. They have to sacrifice everything just to be able to fill one role. How is it ok?

- Thieves were always effective not because of stealth but because of moblity, if they didn’t have it there would be not in single thief in meta. Their dmg was also somehow something to threating because they would invest everything into it and bunkers/bruisers didn’t have high acess to so many defensives while maitaining high dmg (now they can thanks to skills rebalance and ability to invest 6 pts into 3 trait lines). Trade off actually existed to certain extend, Anet deleted it.

- Game is anything but balanced. It is only balanced for eles really, everyone else just has to sit there and watch snooze fest that we call pvp atm. The game is boring and very homogen because more and more players switch to eles.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA in other games match is decided by composition and in this – isn’t? OMG MY SIDES HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAH. Do you even play this game? The fact alone that whichever team has more eles (and mes to extend) has waaay higher chances to win than team running say ranger/necro, multiple thieves is not enough to say that matches are decided by comp? AHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA, someone help me please xD

i like how i get accused of things in this thread i haven’t done :|

Overworld.9613:

pepper.6179:

what about the people that don’t want the expac?

Then you’ll still get the free content and likely once the pack goes live, Anet might make a PvP version of the expack which will just unlock some of the specialisation additions but otherwise people who don’t get it will be unaffected by their choice, the vanilla game will still be just as playable and PvP won’t restrict people who don’t have the expack to fight amongst themselves

yeah keep dreaming

Jayden Ennok.3687:

DeceiverX.8361:

For obvious reasons, this is why I strongly stand against the [Teef] guild’s suggestions on buffing HK to provide a 50% damage bonus on backstabs. Builds that even spec lightly into this kind of damage would be one-shotting tanks, lol. That’s just unfun.

Did they really suggest that? I thought the guild had some experienced thieves in it as well.

1. not everyone can attempt to the meetings so don’t make blanket judgements
2. given the amount of defensives on every class atm (big acess to invuls, perma prot etc.) thief dmg is actually laughable in big picture even if they invest a lot into dmg… i may disagree with particular number but the problem is there

Zenith.7301:

Cynz.9437:

Zenith.7301:

I knew you’d change topic away from “burst without tells” after realizing you precious burst has no actual tells, just guess work.

i am not going away from topic…. if you think that stealth burst from thieves is OP, sure let’s nerf it (it is not backstab that kills you 99% of the time, fyi…. but keep living in illusion that backstab is OP and reason why people run vamp runes lol)

You are changing topics.

You complained a burst not having any tells, presumably mind wrack, without realizing that thief burst is all the same, especially when you can stealth before hand and pull tricks like porting through a wall to burst someone down without them having direct line of sight to see you coming.

Thief burst has no tell. There’s no animation for a backstab under stealth.

Thief steal has no tells. It’s virtually a mechanic without counter, unlike others who have a cast time and animation a thief just ports instantly to you and gets an item without counterplay, in the case of a mesmer 10 seconds of every boon, which is just dumb but it’s not just the mesmer steal that’s dumb.

A thief is in no position to whine about the lack of tells, they’ve got so many skills without tells to begin with.

Thief burst doesn’t instagib anyone…. at least not with normal build. Mesmer can run plenty of survival and CC while being able to instantly down someone from stealth. Once again, i wouldn’t touch rune of vamp pre patch, now i have no choice because of mesmers.

Actually thief has all right to complain about high burst with no tell, while other classes have way of dmg mitigation or simply high HP which allows them react in case they get nuked, thief just gets instagibbed. Once again, backstab is NOT the reason why vamp is mandatory and nerfs to the spell wouldn’t change anything.

Oh and just in case you actually have any interest in listening: do you know why warriors have highest HP in game and a lot of survivability? Because their spells have huge tells and long animations. Now take a guess why thief spells have short animations or are instant. Just a hint: a thief would die before he could ever execute earthshaker.

Zenith.7301:

I knew you’d change topic away from “burst without tells” after realizing you precious burst has no actual tells, just guess work.

i am not going away from topic…. if you think that stealth burst from thieves is OP, sure let’s nerf it (it is not backstab that kills you 99% of the time, fyi…. but keep living in illusion that backstab is OP and reason why people run vamp runes lol)

Thief in nutshell:
- stealth bot for team
- rez bot for team
- decap bot
- stomp/rezzes interrupts

90% of the fights are advices to avoid, you are basically independent utility pet for other players on your team. If you like that playstyle, sure thief is viable.

Zenith.7301:

Cynz.9437:

Solori.6025:

Cynz.9437:

nerf mesmers, eles and co. first…… vamp is kind of needed with all the dmg flying around

He’s right.
First you need to nerf the burst of every class that has the potential to burst.
SOooo basically every class needs to not be able to burst.
Mostly thieves though.

there is burst and then there is ability to one shot things w/o any tell while having good survival/mobility/control in 1 build

lol a thief asking about burst without tells.

i am sry but against common misinformation average backstab is around 4k, maybe if all stars align around 8-9k on squishy…. for anything higher you need to run full glass signet build thus sacrificing almost everything in survival/moblity department

meanwhile mes can nuke for 13+K while running relative high survival/moblity/CC

never ever i had to run vamp runes vs any thieves nor i would if mesmers weren’t in state they are now; they are literary sole reason why you are forced into that rune

DaShi.1368:

Please nerf thieves.

oh go ahead…. given that all devs ever did is nerfing them, maybe they will end up buffing them instead considering how clueless they are about the class~

the guy responsible for thieves managed to embarass himself on POI by not knowing thief traits

Solori.6025:

Cynz.9437:

nerf mesmers, eles and co. first…… vamp is kind of needed with all the dmg flying around

He’s right.
First you need to nerf the burst of every class that has the potential to burst.
SOooo basically every class needs to not be able to burst.
Mostly thieves though.

there is burst and then there is ability to one shot things w/o any tell while having good survival/mobility/control in 1 build

nerf mesmers, eles and co. first…… vamp is kind of needed with all the dmg flying around

plottwist: Traherne raises Tybalt

Tanglewood.7523:

Check my stickied post in the PvP section of the forums. I have created tools to help people find teams and teams to find players.

been there

all dat (passive) aoe burning…. seems like i just gonna camp shortbow (or sit afk at spawn) all match on my thief :|

I have around 4k games exp, to 99% on thief. I was top 100 on NA leaderboards before they were turned into farmfest. I have team exp as well. I have multiple 80s. I have 13-14k ap? because i wanted to see everything what this game has to offer.

Now here is the joke: i live in EU so i moved my main accnt to EU for better ping but i missed my friends so i made second accnt on NA. The moment i made accnt, i made lv 1 thief and went into pvp, worst part i actually had to beg someone to give me few silver to buy weapons i needed cuz all my character had was 20 copper or so. Now here is the question: who do you think was carrying whom when i was doing ranked? Scrubs carried me or i carried scrubs?

Based on your suggestions i would have to grind for ages before i could even touch pvp. This goes completely against the main thing that makes this game’s pvp so appealing: you can jump into pvp at any time w/o any grind.

Oh and few facts from a person who played this game for years:
- pve levels has absolutely nothing to do with pvp experience; also people love to roll multiple lv 1 characters of the same class for the sake of looks/builds while they also have thousands of hours exp on that class
- due to lack of AP in pvp and also their rather grindy nature, they have absolutely nothing to do with players experience nor their skills
- pvp rank (rabbit, deer etc.) is also absolutely worthless for evaluation of player skill as it can be farmed by botting basically

Now i also have to consider that it is not allowed to troll on this forums which leaves me with one assumption: OP, you are very inexperienced in pvp and the the fact that you get teamed with “scrubs” just proves that matchmaking overall is working as intended and you deserve your teammates.

P.S. hunderts and hundrets of tomes of knowledge that i gained via ranked would disagree with you: doing ranked may be not fastest but possible way of getting character to 80 :P

based on poi and some statements from them in game i think i can summarize their experience on thief as following:
- generally they don’t pvp much as they do not have time
- camp downstate in pve content
- hit some golems in HotM with venoms

That is. Yep.

Tbh i am glad he took the role to lead armies, it is pita and at least they don’t bother player character with all the official work.

He is smart and calm. I find it fine. He also stayed humble whole story so i don’t see how he stole any glory anywhere. I liked the part where he has rather shifty acquaintances and knows some dark places.

I am guessing people don’t like him so much since he is not extremely emotional 24/7 but people forget he is one of the first born, i don’t think they were ment to be 100% human like. I am actually more annoyed by constant QQ from Kasmere – friggin Paris Hilton with staff.

I have 2 accnts: on NA and on EU. With 160 ms on NA i have way less lag and skill delay than with 30 ms on EU servers. It doesn’t make any sense. Solve me that riddle.

oh btw from what i understand the guy responsible for thief spec was also responsible for tempest and dragonhunter…. you can imagine how crappy thief spec will be

Sagat.3285:

GreenPhoenix.2943:

We still heaven’t seen the specialization yet. Perhaps the people at anet are just trying to flush those of us who aren’t committed to the class. Watch as the elite spec is revealed to make us as powerful as we once were

It’s supposed to be optional.

this^^

spec should be an option not the sole solution to all issues this class has

Generally, some classes are killable if you play well and enemy maybe makes mistake or two.

- Necros are killable, just takes a lot of kiting, interrupts, good CD/ini managment. Too long fight tho, not worth it in pvp.
- Guardians were, are and probably will be hardcounter to thieves. Instant aoe, blocks, aoe blinds etc. Just everything that we can’t deal with well. Bad guards are killable, but i would avoid those fights completely.
- Wars are actually probably most managable class atm (depneding on build though). Decent shoutbow will never die to thief, rampage war is killable however with blinds and kiting, just have to watch out of stances.
- Engis once again, are killable but it is very long fight and requires perfect play. Wouldn’t engage such fights if i can.
- Rangers: condis just crap on thieves, power ranger became bigger issue since pet taunt was added but can be still killed if you can avoid CC.
- Eles: can not touch good ele. Bad/average eles are still killable but gotta time counter every attunement almost perfectly. Still takes waaaayyy too long to kill one, Not worth the time.
- Mesmers: after some bugs got fixed i think thieves have chance vs them, maybe not best but i have beaten plenty of decent mes in 1v1 and i am not exactly amazing thief.

My general feeling of this patch however is: we lost a lot of dmg (maybe because other classes can spec more into defensives), our defensives are still not oh so amazing and heavily rely on stealth.
In 99% of the time you shouldn’t even bother starting any 1v1 fights or even join any 2v2s, we just don’t dish out enough dmg nor live long enough to bring down current bruisers. Only thing we are good for (which holds us in meta) is +1, backcap, group stealth and rezzes. Thief in current state is not a class, it is independent utility pet for other classes, nothing more.

What really bothers me is: we have to heavily rely on our opponents to do a lot of mistakes while we have to play close to perfect to achive same results as other classes do casually. Hard class is fun and all but high risk/low reward is not ok and i really would rather not rely to 100% on stupidy of my enemy (or lag lol).

ozzy.8059:

Cynz.9437:

Vague Memory.2817:

Chokolata.1870:

You are forgetting the passive procs from the trait lines. Also, aside from the shatter spike the Mesmer has sustained damage and more utility.

I was taking traits into consideration. How can you not? The point is a thief doesn’t have to worry about his single attack being divided into 4 smaller attacks, or put up 3 illusions in the first place. Nor can you proc air and fire sigils on shatters. As for sustain, an evade thief has on demand dodges, which no other class can boast.

- nah thief just has to worry to not get interrupted while gaining stealth, not get killed while trying to get behind the target and actually land backstab before stealth runs out… oh and let’s completely ignore the fact that shatter is aoe and bs is single target dmg

- you CAN proc air/fire with shatter, please don’t lie for the sake of argument

- thief with evades doesn’t have backstab…. unless they run sd/dp which is rather worthless to his team due to lack of sb support.. not to mention they would have to run acro trait line thus either dropping SA or DA which are pretty mucn mandatory atm
also evade is not sustain, you can avoid some dmg yes, but evade doesn’t give any dmg mitigation nor heals

no it just puts your enemy’s useful/defensive skills on behind a cd wall while you can still use all your junk on them with no cd.. just a global 15 second recharge for everything and an auto attack that deals heaps of damage. thats what evades get you

define junk? yes ini is global but use of skills is exclusive through that
if i use ini for CC i don’t have ini for dmg or defensive
if i use ini for mobility, once again i am denying myself dmg and survival…. etc.
are you implying that other zerkers do 0 dmg with their AA lol?

evades do NOT give dmg mitigation nor heals – channeled spells/aoe, condis, timed attacks still hit you once evade frame is over and you are in aftercase

sanctuary.1068:

Youre a thief, ofc you can handle that bc youre not supposed to get hit with all your stealth. Any other class which doesnt have stealth, tons of cleanses, imune skills vs condi or a necro which has two lives are kinda doomed in 10 seconds.

wat? most condi builds counter thieves so hard it is not funny…. stealth =/=invicibility

Archaon.9524:

Ele wars 2 also meaning that literally everyone runs around with double cheese ele

cough wts cough….

Yeah yeah abj rotated better i know….considering how easy it is while you have 2 ppl being able to 1v2 for ages, try to get one less totally reterded spec and you won’t see all those good rotations anymore

aka everyone rotates good when you’re already “outnumbering” other teams with that crap (Meaning that for killing each ele you pretty much always gonna need 2 ppl and unlike bunker guard you can’t even try to pressure them 1v1 cause they’re just gonna destroy you on point)

Sad thing is that the only real counter to double ele comps is to run double ele too….and this is NOT what i call balance, but looks like anet has a different opinion than me…

tripple ele actually…<_<

if you need anything pvp wise (i have thief on NA and EU) or could use my mediocre arty skills (), lmk

25 stacks of bloodlust, signet build + zerker amulet+ w/e ferocity runes he runs + vuln stacks

you can probably one shot that guy tho

common dd ele is celestial, not condi build.. fire trait just happend to be stupidly strong… i think there are enough threads about eles now

engis suppose to do condis, i honestly don’t see much problem with them… their acess to invul/blocks on other hand could be looked at

as said before condi rangers can be easily countered and they are bottom feeders anyway… i don’t see why they should be nerfed (and i play thief which gets countered hard by those builds)

also as said before, the real broken and Op build atm is condi PU mes…. but once again there enough said about it in other threads

not trying to be mean, but maybe you should try out those builds to know how to fight them

point is, this sigil is bandaid…. not solution to the core problem

Amineo.8951:

Bloodyx.5946:

Gray.9041:

uglydan.1638:

Little tid bit of info: the same dev that is responsible for Thief is also responsible for the Ele. There’s a reason why two professions hate their elite spec. Other professions are getting stuff they like, and are seeing changes done based on their feedback.

Guaranteed if Thief is playable during a BWE that any feedback we give will go unheeded. GUARANTEED.

no.

nonono.

say it isn’t so. say it’s a lie.

Tempest was bad, but Ele was already broken.

but thief? we can’t handle that kind of disappointment…

seriously? the dev doing ele does thief?

dear lord… I going to irrationally choose not to believe you because it makes me feel better

He did Dragon Hunter and Tempest which IMO are the worst Elite specs for now (especially DH, holy kitten it’s bad).

oh gods………. this will be bad D8

0/10…. not enough effort

On side note: you think current state is bad? Wait till war spec comes out, we didn#t reach bottom of insanity yet.