Guild Wars 2

Solori.6025:

Man….
How long have you been playing..
Some of this stuff points to not long at all..

-Evades actually dont come at a high cost. Weapons for both ranger and thief have plenty of evades and you can spec into either a condition build or for thieves a really annoying but fairly dangerous ( great sustain with fire and air sigils) spec that gives you enough vitality to basically shrug of hits.

-HAHAHAHAHAH life steal huh.
Please tell me how great that 100hp healing is. May as well say regen is comparable to healing signet. LOL

-Thieves actually have plenty of ways to get ride of cripple and chill..
Sometimes its as easy as going into stealth.
OR shadow stepping.
Or using sword mainhand.
or healing
or just evading the application ( which they can do fairly easily)

-Do you even play a thief?
What thief wont use CnD?
Do you know how valuable a daze every 3 seconds is?’

-You apparently have never touched a warrior. Warrior can be one of the most mobile classes and still have plenty of damage in WvW. No survivability?
That was the funniest thing i have ever seen on the forums ( it isn’t but I said it for dramatic effect).

- yes………..unless your a thief.
Stealth applications happen much more frequently than condi applications.

You comment is actually funny considering that thief, necro and warrior are my main classes i use for pvp/wvw.

- evades comes at costs that you either have to sacrifice trickery tree or crit tree which will force you to rely on FS -> LS (which got nerfed last patch)
- condi thieves may be somehow cheesy in wvw but that is, nobody would play one on any decent level of pvp as they lack spike dmg and their condi dmg is laughable compraed to what necro or engi can bring to team
- no matter how tanky thief will build the best he can do is run away, thieves will never no matter what build be able to facetank due to low HP and lack of blocks/protection/aegis

- life steal can be decent depending on build, nobody said you have to 100% rely on it
- if thief gets rid of condi via stealthm then they traited SA meaning they sacrificed dmg
- shs is long CD, most chills and cripples are on very short CD; any smart thief will safe shs for emergency like stuns or to help ally
- if you mean inf. return, it comes at quite some costs and casting time, during which you could be still stunned feared etc.
- withdraw has relative long CD
- evade doesn’t come as easy that you claim, thieves would have specifically build for it while sacrificing something else and would have to time evades

- yes i main thief actually
- s/d thief won’t use cnd as often due to FS-LS costs as well as Inf strike, weapon spells don’t come for free, they actually cost initiative… besides cnd can be easily blocked, blinded, just be out of range, interrupted etc.
- daze every 3 sec? elaborate plz

- warrior was 3rd class i leveled up for my wvw guild actually
- yes warriors can be most mobile class (horizontally) if they build for it… those warrior indeed have less survival than let’s say their rather bunkerish brothers in pvp

- that is just plain lie, condis are often applied via aoe or even AA (see IP, necro scepter, mesmer scepter etc.)… stealth doesn’t come out of nowhere… you either have to blow long CD or have to use weapon spells be it cnd or bp+ hs… all of them have animation times not to mentionion revealed debuff…. besides condi gets cleansed via stealth only if you run SA and it doesn’t remove all condis right away

i obviously have 0 idea about pvp and wvw~

ANET pleaseeeeeee fix this already, it is unplayable
i am tired of hitting shadow step and not actually port anywhere
i am tired of hitting steal and not actually getting anything off it nor port anywhere
i am sick and tired of hitting dodge on earthshaker and still eating full CC chain

How many times do we have to die so you finally fix that crap?
Why don’t we just disable all stun breakers and F1 moves on all classes??? Sounds fair, doesn’kitten Why do we have to put up with this crap for sooo long… ?

P.S. d o e s n’t i t is bad word now wth forums?

dancingmonkey.4902:

laquito.5269:

The builds everyone is complaining about should be obvious. Generic 0/0/2/6/6 D/D & Staff Ele, Warrior Axe/Sword + Bow & Cele Rifle Eng. These might not be purely OP, but they’re at least overperforming in comparison to other classes that use a similar combo. Hell, Ele wouldn’t even be viable if it wasn’t for the ridiculous sustained heal/damage it gets through the Celestial amulet.

So you pretend to want to list the builds, but narrowly avoid it, bravo. Use this site

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/

This way you can show us the traits. Now go ahead and give us a break down of how you stack the might and how you maintain it in a fight. Especially the rifle engineer. It has already been pointed out repeatedly that rifle/cele build doesn’t stack might, but if you claim it does, I am curious to hear your break down on it.

Cynz.9437:

i run trickery thief meaning i can steal those might stacks every 20 sec and i just couldn’t do it because of boon prioriziation….i fought celestial might stacking dd ele, he had around 20 might stacks, no matter how many times i hit him with steal he kept those stacks because they would be always covered by regen, protection and what not… same goes for engis….

What game mode were you in? What build are they using? Why is it okay for thieves to stack it? Power of Inertia (might when dodging), Hidden Assassin (2 stacks might when going stealth), Signets of Power (5 stacks might for using a signet), Thrill of the Crime (might and other boons when stealing), Venomous Strength (multiple might stacks per venom used)………………………..Thief is one of the largest offenders of the ability to spam stealth, run full dire gear, being defensive while maintaining large stacks of might, stealth spam, survivability, and abuse the system worse then engineer or ele, and they can use gear that is much more survivable then celestial gear, yet do more damage. They really need to nerf the traits that allow thieves to mindlessly gain passive might with no effort.

soloq
ele was celestial dd as i said, what exact traits they were running i can’t say as i can’t see builds in soloq duhh

as far as thief might stacking goes, you srsly pulling it out of your precious now
yes all those traits give might but they all spreaded across all trait lines
if thief was to run it he would have to go 2/2/5/2/2 giving up pretty much anything usefull not to mention he would have to run signets and venoms at the same time which is impossible… nobody would run this build

yes there is 1 trick pony signet build which is absolutely worthless in pvp due to low CD, 0 utlity and 0 surivival
there is also acro build with might runes but i never saw such thief get more than 11-13 might stacks at time and they still did pretty crappy dmg tbh and got downed pretty fast

they can nerf might traits all they want on thieves, it would have barely any effect on thief gameplay in pvp as most of them are not used anyway besides thrill of the crime

lastly, none of the thief traits besides trickery give any might to allies nor thieves have any fire fields to stack might with

except when you had 6 engis every match you kind of get fed up with them

also chaith, saying that you need 2 classes/players to beat 1 engi just says a lot about how broken engi is

they need to nerf IP, idc how
turrets need to be affected by condi and crit dmg
all AI, not just turrets should be affected by master stats, if you build full tank your AI may be tank but does 0 dmg
celestial/might stacking needs to go from pvp

- they probably either used sb 5 or shadow step
- d/p is actually counter to s/d, to do dmg as s/d you need to get FS → LS off and blinds can prevent it, given the nature of the sigil procs however it can go both way
- well you either will have to save steal for their heal or make sure you get in stealth for interrupt

if it was SA d/p you probably won’t kill them unless they let you due to nature of SA traits

Anubis.7058:

Hp doesnt mean jack kitten if you can just never get hit or reset on demand (which is allowed by mobility or stealth thus every other profession has options for it).

Every profession has heals.

No, they would actually still need to get buffed even if they got evade moves, thief has stealth, immunity to chill and cripple and a average 3 combat ports/ blinks pre 10 seconds. Not that im suggesting it since it would go against the initial and sale based promotion of necromancers as the “facetank and steal back the hp” class.

Warriors – block, mobility, vigor, evade moves (your argument is invalid in terms of stats).

Condis get cleansed, hard cc can only be stun broken or stability stopped, not a argument. But it does bring up lacking stability for a non evasion profession (in contrast to mesmers or thieves which have more than enough evades and blocks on under 10s cooldowns to be functionally only skill capped in terms of cc mitigation.

Elites were never mentioned in the post, they are above average (not best, but no bad one except for some bugs, but stuff like plague bugging and not applying its type if stripped and then launched till you get hit again or lich auto attack not being remembered are as said bugs and minor). Tho in all fairness, new guard tomes, all engie elites and all mesmer elites are far stronger on average use (compare/contrast, being immune to 5 people too stupid to get out of 600 range and plain chopping off 80% HP from 5 people on 1400 range while ccing them with mortar, which is by far the weakest engie elite).

P.S. Its not skill which is keeping you alive in WvWvW, its the GWE part of GWEN.

- stealth doesn’t make you invincible, evades usually come at relative high costs and given to classes that otherwise would die in 1-2 hits (necro isn#t one of them)
- HP actually does mean something, it affects amount of healing you get and how many hits you can take… 1 good backstab with fire/air procs would instagib a thief or ele, but would bring necro to 50-30% HP
- necro has life steal, not every profession has it to that extend
- thieves don’t have immunity to chills and cripple, that is plain lie and disinformation… cripple and chills actually screw thieves by a lot starting with crippled gap closers and inablity to get out of aoe
- why would necros get buffed? thief that is buildt around evades doesn’t really have much acess to stealth besides refuge and maybe cnd which they almost never use due to initiative consumtion
- 3 combat ports and blinks pre 10 sec? what build are we talking about here
- warriors have evades? that’s new…. if you mean endure pain, that doesn’t actually stop dmg, at least not condi… also warrior built for moblity has little survival actually or does 0 dmg
- condis also get applied more frequently and at much cheaper costs than condi cleanses… not sure what you are trying to say about CC…

lorndarken.3702:

play a necromancer , and when you do , go to pvp and compete in servers that are 1 vs 1 , enjoy lol

classes are not balanced around 1v1…

nerfing IP would be enough tbh

Mbelch.9028:

These constant “nerf might” threads are obnoxious. If you have a problem with it, there’s a sigil that targets might first, and there’s three classes which easily remove might, a fourth which targets it first (guardian).

Nerfing might won’t help diversity, it’ll kill it.

If you want to rephrase your request, let’s nerf strength runes… Now we’re talking. Strength runes are an awful April patch addition.

actually might is hard to remove

i run trickery thief meaning i can steal those might stacks every 20 sec and i just couldn’t do it because of boon prioriziation….i fought celestial might stacking dd ele, he had around 20 might stacks, no matter how many times i hit him with steal he kept those stacks because they would be always covered by regen, protection and what not… same goes for engis….

i think the only class that can reliable remove them is necro with very long CDs on top of it… so boon removal/corruption is just not the solution in current state

Necrotize.2974:

So basically delete the thief’s 2 main ways of surviving(stealth based healing/condi removal+teleport/evades/mobility) and throw a huge wrench in the steal ability while at the same time making it impossible for a thief to disengage. You essentially want to turn the thief into a lower hp warrior with less mobility and next to no damage mitigation. No player will ever be able to balance a class if they are always trying to balance from their own class’ perspective.

“I find that most people hate thieves for one and only one reason. A thgeves ability to chain stealths and teleports around the map with no end in sight. This is incredibly frustrating for everyone. Even other thieves.”

You act as if disengaging is something only thieves do. Any class with access to stealth or mobility can escape a fight. And just going from the PoV of that quote, I’m guessing you don’t play a thief. Play a thief for yourself. You will quickly realize that if you’re trying to fight anything other than another zerker, you will not down them fast enough and you will need to disengage. That mobility is what makes thieves useful. If you realize a fight is going nowhere desirable( like fighting a bunker build on point), you can escape with stealth and teleports to quickly traverse to another point that isn’t defended and take that instead.

Just going off your post, your entire reasoning for nerfing something isn’t that it’s actually OP and needing a nerf, but that it is annoying in your opinion. We don’t change things because they’re annoying. That’s subjective and not a good reason.

couldn’t say better

standing next to enemy -> hit HS 3 times (because nothing happend) – > all 3 times it didn’t do anything besides leap animation… no dmg, no numbers, no indication, nothing…only iniative gone…

similar happens to BS sometimes (can be even seen on Caed’s stream)

wth?

i want to support this but every match i get carried away with my bloodlust and end up trying to kill anything on sight instead of boycotting skyhammer ._.

limit max amount of might in pvp to 10 – most of the issues solved

Apprently just lost match because half of the players in game DCd myself including. Couldn’t open forum page nor log in back for few min… :/
According to players in HotM most matches went to 2v3 or even 1v0….

If you are doing server restarts it is fine but at least give us heads up :<

Anubis.7058:

Cynz.9437:

necros also have 2 HP bars and extremely high survival (compared to other classes)

Oh yes a HP bar which bleeds out in trade for: 0 leaps, 0 blinks/ports (and no, swalk and wurm are not mobility they are pre cast), 0 blocks, 0 evade attacks, 0 reflect, 0 projectile destruction, no on demand vigor or trait based endurance and 0 invul skills.

Your argument fails.

also highest HP among all classes (besides warriors)

i don’t see why walk and wurm can’t be considered a port, i use those all the time in matches, yes it is precast but so are some other blinks

necro has heals and once again i still consider it a second HP bar combined with very high HP pull blocks would be overkills…. also don’t forget multiple forms of fear which can also work as defense

same thing with evades, evades are there for classes that otherwise don’t have high CC, high surivival stats etc. otherwise

lack of reflect maybe arguable but i feel like anet wants to keep those limited to few classes, come to worse you can always run MM necro and just let your pets body block everything

once again why would necro with high survival stats need to rely on dodges? if necros were allowed to have high uptime on dodges and evades they would have to have base HP of a theif or guard which is twice lower than what necro has btw… and would have to say good bye to DS

some classes rely on devades/stealth for survival, some classes rely on blocks, in necro case it is high initial stats that allow them to take quite beating before they even get low, combined with DS…
the lack of moblity is covered by constant cripple, chill, immob and fear application
the lack of actual straight heals is covered by life steal, once again DS and multiple ways of condi removal

i play necro (in fact it was second character i lvd up) and i agree lack of moblity can be annoying sometimes (especially if you played thief before) but on the other hand i can fight on points in pvp, have good controll over enemy thanks to condis and bring a lot of utility for zerg in wvw…. i am rather puzzled that someone would complain about necro survival when i can surf through enemy zerg along with guards and warriors w/o any problems

once again, classes like engis and celestial/might stacking hybrids need to see a nerf, necros are fine (besides nightmare rune abuse)

as far as elites go, i find plague is really usefull in wvw, lich form or flesh golem are actually quite awesome in pvp…. i feel like necros have maybe not the best elite choice (once again, engis i look at you) but they are actually pretty good imo and necros actually have choices!!! unlike some other classes that are forced into 1 elite because everything else sucks

yep, still bugged as welll as shs and inf. signet

necros also have 2 HP bars and extremely high survival (compared to other classes)

i don’t think that necros are really in bad spot, every class has to have weakness or things like pre patch hambow and current engis happen… in fact i am glad to have a necro on team because it would give team condi pressure

what real issue is that in current meta necros are one of the classes that can’t abuse hybrid celestial might stacking builds hence why it feels like they lack something… nerf celestial, might stacking, NERF ENGIS !!!! – suddenly necros are really good, imo

Elfindale.4836:

solo q is a mess, people do not trust each other and more importantly, give me a reason to not to go far when you have 2+mes, thieves, power rangers necros,med guards etc, you name it.

actually i get 3 thieves teams all the time and we end up holding mid and home most of the matches O.o
the only time mid is absolute no go is when enemy has 2 turrets engis and bunker guards camping mid

FearedbytheGods.8617:

They should make a tier 0, that way BG can play with itself like on the community forums.

i support this xD

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

I still suspect they look at that Nerf Wish List seirously.

they did, read recent patch notes and compare to nerf list… you will find quite few changes from patch in that list….

such things are not so easy to design nor implement, besides there is not really demand for it atm

making another finisher is probably more proftable duhh and if anything i would rather have new game mode and ready button than new spells

Lopez.7369:

It’d be nice if we could see this data ourselves. Considering you have our MMR on-hand, why not just put it on the leaderboards? Every other competitive game I know of already does this.

remember what happend when people could see heir personal ratings/mmr in wow?
also remember why anet removed rank indication from scoreboards in matches?

simply put, it leads to nothing more than exploiting and griefing

There are plenty of complains in one form or another (see threads about nightmare runes, IP, old dhumfire etc.) however i have a feeling Anet understanding of balanced is different from how we understand balance.

they can’ t even balance what we already have….

Stand The Wall.6987:

all of the proposed guard changes are absolutely horrid.

there have been plenty of “horrid” suggestion for thieves and anet implemented them anyway~

tbh the sad part is they will probably take this thread seriously and swing the nerf bat again

aaaand here we go again, a guy decided to afk half of the game…. next match get same guy again….. whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy can’t we report people for thisssssss

Holl.3109:

Most necro’s won’t win against hambow either, but counters in this game exist man. Deal with it (#)-(#)

if you think it is issue, make own thread about it

ShakeyStorm.7180:

Does the Thief forum agree that victory is impossible against Guardians? Why is there no post about it?

because everyone gave up long time ago, thieves are too busy hiding from another nerf bat swing and trying to compensate for the dmg that is already done

if i remember correctly, there was post on forums from Caed saying something like that even worst player can beat any thief playing as guardian (don’t take this by word, i would have to find the post for exact quote)

vincecontix.1264:

Cynz.9437:

vincecontix.1264:

Cynz.9437:

dancing didn’t provide any facts either really

i agree with OP, celestial + might sigils/runes are really problematic and almost mandatory if you want to play to win in pvp

if i recall correctly, even devs said themself runes/sigils shouldn’t be build defining but support it…..

i still think reducing max amount of might stacks in pvp would be good step toward fixing this issue and intoduce more build varierity

You know not sure I agree with you, from a thief’s perspective sure celestial+might is strong. Though from wars, guards, ele, engi, necro its not really an issue.

Also coordinated spikes from thief+mesmer zerker duo are reall strong.

celestial + str runes/int sigils are strong and meta defining because they allow tanks and hybrids dish out dmg comparable to glass builds which kind of nullifies any logic behind having glass builds to sacrifice any survival for dmg

yes might stacking was in game before but runes/sigil addition allowed to extend might duration and stacking to the point where getting 20 even 25 stacks became pretty easy for some builds while not sacrificing much of survival for it (if any at all)

int sigil same issue: allows certain builds completely ignore pecision stat and invest more into survival while getting crits from weapon swaps ( sup eles, wars, engis, guards)

allowing 2 sigils on 2H weapons and splitting ICD on sigil made situation even worse

i do not think that Anet would revert ICD and 2 sigils on 2H change so i think runes/amule/sigils need to be adressed in pvp

You know might affects other stats build as well? Wouldn’t a zerker class with 20+ stacks of might do insane damage?

IMO the change to sigils was good as it allows for a larger variety of builds.

With regards to Intel sigils the bufg was necessary to make it viable, an yet man player still run something else.

Also there are still a lot of meta specs that don’t run celestial.

ofc zerker with 20 might stacks would do high dmg but they will also die really fast, hybrids/tanks don’t have that issue

i don’t say sigil change was really bad but it worsened the issue with bunkers/hybrids doing actual dmg

not sure what to say you about your int sigil response, i can also claim that many runs those sigils…

yeah the other meta specs are either full bunker or nightmare runes necro…

ah i forgot thieves that are forced into zerker

Nema Tode.5637:

I can’t understand how the majority of this thread thinks p/p is awful and yet people call me cheese when I kill them with it.

lol i even saw backpack playing pp thief, he still got rekt

pp may work at certain rating but is completely destroyed once you face smart opponents

ellesee.8297:

Hello Frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

After you down multiple people is actually the best time to push far! 15 second respawns is plenty of time to neut far point! Vee Wee always pushes far because that’s how you carry a team!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

if you downed someone, yes it might be good time…

the issue if when there is always someone going far and completely ignores points that team already has… what is most common situation is that it leads to outnumbered case on other points and own team wipes while that 1 guy is sittin at far…. suddenly we don’t have 2 points anymore and don’t have real chance to get those back either

even worse is when the guy pushing far keeps wiping there and contributes absolurely nothing to team whole game

i have had games where i was forced to sit at home all game and just kept killing enemy players that just kept comming one by one to our home, we had them 3 capped all game….

AGGabriel.9230:

Awkward considering that the thief has no cooldown on weapons and like to hit and hide and run at 30% to reset they THEY complain about guardian

none of that is viable tactics in pvp and would usually lead to team los

Shanks.2907:

Ah. The dreaded 6/6/6/6/6 medi guardian with 5 utility slots that can 1v3 all day long.

I’m wondering if you’ve tried putting any time into guardian before putting time into this very well thought out post. I’m sure you’ll die to plenty of thieves who value their skill and insight into other classes, rather than just giving up and QQ for nerfs to something they simply just don’t understand.

please show me where i claimed that guards use all of those spells/traits in one build?

Bloonis.9528:

Cynz.9437:

Bloonis.9528:

Thieves think so much of themselves that the “QQ” that is received as a thief is nothing compared to the one received when a thief is killed by another profession laughs out loud

Having said this, I sympathise for all thieves. Your constant struggling and button smashing between neverending evades, teleports, invisibilities, 10K+ single skill spikes, etc. must be so tiring and brain consuming. I cannot even begin to imagine what you people go through each day to bring home those precious rank points. Therefore, I plead to the anet designer team. PLEASE BUFF the thief class. Relieve them of the constant daily stress and make their online life better. This way, no other profession will be able to kill a thief ever, not even by luck, and the worst part of the “QQ” will stop.

mmmmmm extraggeration
1/10 for trying

If by “extraggeration” you mean “exaggeration” you are wrong. I say things exactly as they are. But I can discuss it if you want of course. So, care to tell me exactly where I am exaggerating and why?

i love this bait

i don’t think that button mashing would work on thief due to revealed mechanics, combo requirementes, positioning and such~

thief can build either for evades or stealth not both~

10K single spike dmg is only possible in pvp if you run 6/6/xxxx signet build, that build however has no evades and very limited access to stealth (and certanly no teleports)~

if you really wanna know what i find most frustrating about collecting those rank points (not that i really care about those anymore, lol r80), is actually 4v5 and skyhammer~~~~

you are welcome

P.S. i don’t speak english well (3rd language for me) so tnks for correction :P

the issue with actual teams is that gw2 pvp community is very small, there is handful of actual teams and if requirement for actual team for pvp would be implemented, the queue times would be insanely long

tbh i am not quie sure how to make tpvp an actual team pvp and not another form of yoloq given the restriction of very small community

a bit off topic, but i really wish players could queue for soloq match with 1 friend if they wish for it (like in league)… i mean there IS way for it right now but it is very luck dependant and against the rules as far as i know :/

as far as new players being ranked high goes, i really wish we had something similar to league divisions where you actually have to climb up and won’t end up playing vs diamonds right away

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Remember the old games…
When people played PvP for fun and got absolutely no reward for doing it?

i made gold off dyes :P

engi /thread
15 charrrr

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Cynz.9437:

@GoogleBrandon.5073: and then we have portal bombs, if not even double portal bombs where mesmer can bring entire team to defend point…

Ah clever, I figured that someone might’ve pulled the Mesmer portal arguement

Unlike any other class, the Mesmer has indeed the capability of zoning the whole team to a point if needed, quickly applying pressure to a point – this is different from a thief who cannot zone the whole team, but rather himself…

A Mesmer, unlike a Thief, does not have the capability to quickly port back and forth at will, granted neither can a Thief, since it requires mobility rather than a portal…
The role of a Thief is herefore different from a Mesmer which is applying pressure to a point – by Portal, Null-Field, Chaos Storm and AoE interrupts, whereas a thief is made to singlehandidly make uneven fights by picking out single targets – there is no heavy point control involved here…

Both play a role, and although with Portal it seems similar, it is not… And again, I am by no means someone who dislikes the role of a Thief since you can build your team around it… Does this mean you need to build tankier to survive since Thieves can make uneven fight? Maybe…

if thief was real issue everyone would run medi guards

Narkodx.1472:

Cynz.9437:

DrLane.5248:

well blame your team if they are not enough smart to reroll when you have 3 thiefs.If you cant play more than 1 class , you should try to learn another one asap just for this and cuz of the meta/gamebalance that is mooving.
Tbh multiclass player are usually better players than mono class users , becuz they know the mechanics of what they are fighting ( assuming they already played this build) , and it hlps a lot to take someone down in a tf or 1N1.

eh i have played other classes i just don’t trust thieves on my team, most of them are usually pretty bad and i need high moblity or bunker guard if i want to have any chance to win game

There should be a test to play thief.. seriously so many bad thieves out there

At least once a day I get condition thieves on my team – so useless

there are bad players on every class, which is ok… the issue with thief particulary you want only 1 thief on your team and that thief has to be good… it is not exactly noob friendly class when it comes to pvp (in team effectivness that is)

condi thief is just bad and i wish it was deleted since it worthless for team and gives thief players bad habbits

also lol @ test to play a thief, just add rank restriction to do ranked games

vincecontix.1264:

Cynz.9437:

dancing didn’t provide any facts either really

i agree with OP, celestial + might sigils/runes are really problematic and almost mandatory if you want to play to win in pvp

if i recall correctly, even devs said themself runes/sigils shouldn’t be build defining but support it…..

i still think reducing max amount of might stacks in pvp would be good step toward fixing this issue and intoduce more build varierity

You know not sure I agree with you, from a thief’s perspective sure celestial+might is strong. Though from wars, guards, ele, engi, necro its not really an issue.

Also coordinated spikes from thief+mesmer zerker duo are reall strong.

celestial + str runes/int sigils are strong and meta defining because they allow tanks and hybrids dish out dmg comparable to glass builds which kind of nullifies any logic behind having glass builds to sacrifice any survival for dmg

yes might stacking was in game before but runes/sigil addition allowed to extend might duration and stacking to the point where getting 20 even 25 stacks became pretty easy for some builds while not sacrificing much of survival for it (if any at all)

int sigil same issue: allows certain builds completely ignore pecision stat and invest more into survival while getting crits from weapon swaps ( sup eles, wars, engis, guards)

allowing 2 sigils on 2H weapons and splitting ICD on sigil made situation even worse

i do not think that Anet would revert ICD and 2 sigils on 2H change so i think runes/amule/sigils need to be adressed in pvp

DrLane.5248:

well blame your team if they are not enough smart to reroll when you have 3 thiefs.If you cant play more than 1 class , you should try to learn another one asap just for this and cuz of the meta/gamebalance that is mooving.
Tbh multiclass player are usually better players than mono class users , becuz they know the mechanics of what they are fighting ( assuming they already played this build) , and it hlps a lot to take someone down in a tf or 1N1.

eh i have played other classes i just don’t trust thieves on my team, most of them are usually pretty bad and i need high moblity or bunker guard if i want to have any chance to win game

welcome to my life
every time i get to 500-400ish i start to get those matches where it is 4v5 every match or i don’t have a single teammate that even thinks about going to capture any points no matter how much ask them

the best one was when some player said he was rank 1 (new to game) and didn’t know what to do (while everyone else was shark-dragon), eventually he rage quit the match out of frustrating of being killed every time he left spawn point

sitting in 4v5 rig now (or rather 3v5 since 1 thief decided to afk at spawn half way through the match) with 3 thieves on my team while writing this message~

i mean i personally couldn’t care less i guess, the issue starts when i lose like 8 matches in a row due to afk’ers, trolls and just bad match making so my mmr goes down by a lot… which results in me would facing those very rank1-20 players which would get obviously demolished… it is not fun neither for me nor for them and mostlikely cause new players to quit pvp and i really wish we actually had bigger community

surely you can’t just take pvp rank into account but i think adding ready button and putting at min rank 10 restriction for ranked would fix the matchmaking a bit

@GoogleBrandon.5073: and then we have portal bombs, if not even double portal bombs where mesmer can bring entire team to defend point…

Jekkt.6045:

I guess you are talking about dps medi guards here.

About thief changes:

Afaik bountiful theft prioritizes stability (not sure if it only does when you use sleight of hand). Aegis is a block, steal is not unblockable and therefore wont work.

An auto attack going through blocks? No thanks.

Contemplation of purity is one of the only active condi cleanse a dps guard has. Dps thieves usually dont even use more than 3 condis so i dont understand your complaints at all.

Same for purging flames, why would you care about them. Just dont stand in the burning..

If you look at the burn uptime a nornal medi guard has this trait is quite weak and most of the time negligible. I understand it though when its a 2v2 agaibst the guard and a longbow war but as a thief you shouldnt be stabding in the fire field anyway.

Focused mind is in the meditation trait line. Why would you put it somewhere else.

Smite condition is strong but if you nerf it it will make medi guards a lot more worse. After all its one of their main healing/cleansing sources.

About burning:

I agree that burning is very strong but all of the classes except thief have enough access to it so imo it is balanced. I just feel like that burning shouldnt be all passive which it is in some cases atm.

Sorry but i dont agree with your complaints at all and i dont even main a guard. Just because a thief cant beat a zerker warrior spec but all other zerker specs doesn’t mean that medi guard is op…

steal atm doesn’t prioritize stab, at least since patch

yes, aegis blocks steal hence why i made a suggestion that you should be able to steal aegis

i didn’t say every AA but 3rd attack on chain, meaning thief will still have to sit there and AA till he reaches the 3rd attack on chain and it is still quite a time, at most he will land maybe 1-2 attacks

Contemplation of purity: guards have enough passive condi cleanse… so what if that is their only active condi cleanse, it is not like i am asking to remove it. As far as thief goes, yes most thief have at most 3 condis, but if you add team in the picture they will have access to more condis via either stolen abilities or fields/auras.

Just not stand in it is hard to apply when you cosider we have only 1 game mode which is about standing on point not to mention that guards have enough ways to keep someone in place or bring purging flames to enemy target.

“If you look at the burn uptime a nornal medi guard has this trait is quite weak and most of the time negligible” based on what? Numbers?

Focused mind: why should defensive tree enhance offensive ability by so much (almost perma 20% crit chance while training defensive is not a joke).

Smite condition: such argument didn’t stop anet from massive nerfs to other classes.

Burning: i would indeed agree it is balanced if application came at high price.

I never claimed medi guard was OP, my issue is how absolutely hopeless it is for thief to even try to attack a guardian which once again wouldn’t be issue if matches didn’t consist of 3-5 guardians. Players should be rewarded for good play and not for rolling absolute hardcounter and get carried by the build rather than by skill.

Wyrden.4713:

Cynz.9437:

Wyrden.4713:

thif counters mesmer worse than guard counters thief…

not true, mesmer vs thief is who got bit more luck and who caught whom off guard, mesmer while doesn’t ahve 100% chance to kill thief still has very good chance to do so

thief vs guard is impossible

saw countless thiefs outplaying guards, thief can win against guards still

same stuff~

if guard died to a thief he should reconsider his class/build choices and certanly get more practice and not afk in fight

Wyrden.4713:

thif counters mesmer worse than guard counters thief…

not true, mesmer vs thief is who got bit more luck and who caught whom off guard, mesmer while doesn’t ahve 100% chance to kill thief still has very good chance to do so

thief vs guard is impossible

I understand concept of hardcounters and all but either this game needs to live it to 100% (which is not the case with engis, warriors and co.) or change the way classes interact that so we don’t have some classes that have no hardcounters and then classes that stand 0 chance vs other.

Seeing as Anet won’t introduce any hardcounters to engis (please don’t bring up necro, engis can still beat them), warriors and co., i think it is time that thieves also have chance even if slight vs guardians. At the moment there only 2 ways thief stands any chance vs guardian:
- guardian is afk and doesn’t fight at all
- thief has help from 2 other players

You would say but hey pvp is not about 1v1, surely it is not and it would be fine if matches wouldn’t consist of 3-5 guardians (rest engis _)….. As thief at that point you might as well just sit afk at spawn or hope that enemy afk. I find it highly discouraging.

I suggest following changes (not necessary together):
Note: all this suggestions are only for pvp, weither or not they should be applied for the rest of the game is different topic.
thief changes:
- bountiful theft should prioritize stability and aegis, right now it completely ignores aegis
- every 3rd attack on thief AA chain should go through the block/invul

guard changes:
- contemplation of purity should convert 3 conditions only, not unlimited
- purging flames CD increased by 5 sec
- fiery wrath should be moved to master tier at least
- focused mind should be moved to more damage oriented trait lane
- smite conditions needs it’s CD increased by 5-10 sec
- very arguable: virtrues should only grant teammates buffs if guardian traited for (similar to venom share)

general changes:
- burning dmg/scaling needs to be nerfed in pvp: yes it will affect other classes but i honestly think that burning IS too strong of condition atm in pvp and too easily applied… no matter what class i play atm, pretty much all my deathes come from 20+k burning, 15k+ bleeding and torment in that order… guradians and engis are especially at fault since they apply burning on pretty much any attack
- max amount of might obtainable in pvp should be reduced to 10 (for any class), the duration reduced by 20-30% in pvp
- intelligence sigil should have crit chance reduced to 50% (arguable) instead of 100%
- retal duration needs to be reduced by 50% in pvp
- celestial amulet needs a nerf across all stats in pvp, atm it is too build and meta defining and overshadows other amulets in effectivness (there is enough threads about it)

Windsagio.1340:

Bhima.9518:

1) If you don’t know how to game the system for hotjoin, don’t play it as it is an unbalanced mess with constant 3v5 and 4v5 matches.
2) Queue for team arena instead of solo. There are a few reasons for this:
* No Skyhammer
* You will likely join a group of 3 or 4 others playing together that can give you a strategy to follow. This really is much more useful than trying to Rambo to victory in solo queue or hotjoin
* You may actually find some people you enjoy playing spvp with, add them to your friends list, and then play with them in team arenas. This will lead to more victories and less complete blowout losses which are just demoralizing.

This is the problem. “OMG MAXIMISE POINTS I MUST NOT LOSE!”

The fact that all the stated solutions are ‘game the system’ says about as much as it can.

actually pulling Rambo in team pvp is harder than in yoloq @_q

Stealth IS actually thief class mechanic because thief is only class in game that has stealth attacks. Name me any other class that has attacks that require stealth, especially as main source of dmg.

dancing didn’t provide any facts either really

i agree with OP, celestial + might sigils/runes are really problematic and almost mandatory if you want to play to win in pvp

if i recall correctly, even devs said themself runes/sigils shouldn’t be build defining but support it…..

i still think reducing max amount of might stacks in pvp would be good step toward fixing this issue and intoduce more build varierity

Last time i checked playing games is complete waste of time besides for the fact that it is fun. Same goes for pvp, players engage pvp for fun duhhhh. That is what it is good for (as long as it is balanced and has fun enviroment to offer).

welcome to my daily match history: all engis, constant 4v5