I would love if Ventari would go as an elite specialization…maybe even to the Ritualist on the condition that the mechanic would be to alter the nature of the tablet by infusing it with the power of a different legend.
Like say ….. infuse Ventari’s tablet with Malyx’s demonic energy and turn it into a ranged condi weapon that gives resistance to nearby allies.
Replacing not expanding. Leave elite specs out of it.
Thats something thats been asked and suggested before. And I find it rather likely we may can an elite spec on that concept eventaully. I feel it would be cool atleast as far as I am concerned :P
Would this elite spec being coming around winter time?
No idea. I said that this kind of mechanic WOULD be in an elite spec. Not that the next elite spec will HAVE this mechanic. Elite specs will probably come with the next expansion. which will probably get some news about some time NEXT year.
Edit: Also I doubt it would be exactly as you described. Its more likely to be a simple shapeshifting mechanic rather than what you described.
As tragic said above something similar existed in another game. Namely world of warcraft for one. In the form of a spell called Eyes of the Beast.
This spell was actually eventually removed. Because it was largely pointless in all forms of content. There was NO situation where it was actually worth using it. And the risk involved of leaving your body behind was completely not worth it.
Even if they let us shapeshift INTO our pet it would have to be with MASSIVE damage bonuses to that form to make it even slightly worth it. Due to how our damage is currently calculated. But it could give us a viable dps oriented option. As strange as that may sound to some.
Its a cool concept. But the ability as you describe it right now would only have use in incredibly specific situations. And probably wouldnt be worth devoting an entire elite spec too.
Sorry that was GoT joke, winter is coming. Also they should just add it to core ranger then. Perhaps something to replace the lost effect of “guard”.
Perhaps a stay command with 10,000 range that marks players like sentries in WvW.
Engi has some useless gadgets like battle ram, that can be switched to a portal gadget.
The only issue I can see with them gaining it is that everyone already gained access to the watchwork portal consumables. Also mesmer would flip their kitten if engie had both moa and portal.
However. I already said that engie is likely to gain dark fields somehow (after all they have 8/9). And all classes that have dark fields also have teleport/shadowstep.
Now mesmer gained access to dark fields with https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gravity_Well
And for our world antigravity fields are more often science fiction (non magical) than fantasy (magical).
It’s possible that engie could get some type of gravity based elite spec that gave them access dark fields and also shadowstep.
The spec could be based in magnetism becaue engie has always shown the ability to produce magnetic fields. And because magnetism can affect gravity.
So a shadowstep would be a sped up version of
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magnetic_Leap
Do not try to fix what isn’t broken. Or terrible things can occur.
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Throw Lava Rock on a condi build can kill enemy players last time i checked.
Thats something thats been asked and suggested before. And I find it rather likely we may can an elite spec on that concept eventaully. I feel it would be cool atleast as far as I am concerned :P
Would this elite spec being coming around winter time?
In my previous comment I was only thinking of the certain examples.
But I reassessed the all statement.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Ideas-for-Heals/first#post6315201Now all heals that were good before HoT received nerfs from categorization. And are worse of unless traited.
Ether Renewal, Withdraw, Corrupt Conditions.As for Withdraw it received a tool tip change to reflect the change almost a year latter
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Withdraw&direction=next&oldid=1162418And it still is less dps than before. The cd was increased by 20% but the healing only by 10%. Ergo a 10%(or 20% if the tooltip is wrong) nerf to the hps of a heal skill on a class with 11k base health.
Shelter has all the usage characteristics of the heals that got
buffednerfed.If that’s the case, then I would by default interpret this as the dev team implying that Withdraw is balanced (if not traited for) considering all of the other changes thief received after the trait overhaul patch. I can see your point though: withdraw could definitely be another example of a skill poorly adapted for skill categorization.
For your statement about shelter: If this was pre-HoT then I would absolutely agree with you. Now, if you compare shelter to both what we received (Purification) as well as what other classes received, it could stand to receive a few indirect buffs through skill categorization without coming across as OP or ruining its currently beloved place in the game.
To illustrate: If shelter maintained its current personal 2s block, healing value, cast time, 30s cd AND also had some sort of new functionality tacked on to it which would thematically categorize it as a consecration, I don’t think it would be OP. This of course all depends on what that functionality is. Realistic worst case scenario is that untraited, shelter becomes a 35s cd, and the new functionality just barely doesn’t make up for the additional 5s cd. Some builds would be screwed, others would be helped and new builds would arise. That’s just how change works though.
You have to remember that purification comes from an elite trait line. Shelter can be run in any build.
Tldr; all uncategorized heals are worse off from being categorized. They were nerfed for the potential to be slightly better if you traited them.
Not true. Your example for necros is applicable but counterexamples lie in warrior’s “To the Limit!” and ranger’s “We Heal as One,” as well as Troll Unguent. Also your point on Withdraw’s healing value not being updated to compensate for extra cd is not a valid argument to support your tldr statement there. That failure can credited more to the dev team’s forgetfulness or neglect; as far as I’m aware they have not ever stated that Withdraw is fine and doesn’t need its heal updated since they announced that its healing would be updated during big skill/trait overhauls back in the July 26, 2015 patch.
The key lies in balancing the skill’s untraited version, traited version and previously uncategorized version. Do I think they can balance this in a desirable way? Absolutely, and you should too. I’ll admit that the balance team did not balance as well as they should have with certain skills but it’s not an impossible task to do for the remaining 3 heals. It is, however, more difficult for shelter since there aren’t a lot of options for an easy as well as balanced skill-type assignment.
Shelter is in a good spot but that doesn’t mean it couldn’t be in a better one. I never claimed that my suggestion was a solution. It’s part of the brainstorming process. You can be a part of it too if you want.
Why does everything have to be categorized? If they wanted to buff Shelter then they would’ve done so already, with or without categorization (although they specifically chose not to categorize Shelter). I don’t think Shelter is weak at all either, especially since it’s used and preferred in virtually all game modes except PvP (where it’s still an alternative to Purification).
I can’t see any reason to categorize Shelter as a consecration besides the fact that people want an easy buff to the skill since a lot of guardians use virtues and there’s almost no trade-off for picking the consecration trait.ANet stated as part of that trait/skill overhaul that they wanted all heal/utility/elite skills to be more well-defined in their roles and thus embarked on a journey to assign a skill-type to all type-less skills. That journey remained incomplete for pretty good reasons; certain skills (like shelter) would either be OP if assigned a skill-type or would need to be redesigned to thematically fit the skill type which could essentially ruin the place that skill currently had in any of the game modes.
Assigning a skill-type is about defining the skill’s role, not about buffing or nerfing. Doing so isn’t necessary (as is evidenced by 3 still unassigned healing skills), but it would be a very interesting update for the skills assuming the devs can find a balanced way to assign the skill types.
In my previous comment I was only thinking of certain examples. And have since corrected myself.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Ideas-for-Heals/first#post6315201
Heals that were frequently used, before HoT, received nerfs from categorization. And are now worse off unless traited. Perhaps the sole exception being troll unguent, but it is a heal over time.
Ether Renewal, Withdraw, Corrupt Conditions were nerfed.
As for Withdraw it received a tool tip change to reflect the supposed 10% healing increase almost a year later
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Withdraw&direction=next&oldid=1162418
And it still is less hps than before. The cd was increased by 20% but the healing only by 10%. Ergo a 10%(or 20% if the tooltip is wrong) nerf to hps on a class with 11k base health.
Shelter has all the usage characteristics of the heals that got buffed nerfed.
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You guys saying Shelter should be a concentration are all wrong. It would totally be a meditation and Litany of Wrath would totally become a concentration that is an AoE area that would let allies heal for the damage they would do.
And for people wondering why others want every skill to have a type: completeness. I bet if you asked them if Anet should make a spirit weapon heal and elite and fill in the other holes among all of the classes, almost all of those people would want those holes filled.
What is this almost all crap? Stop speaking for other people. When the heal is already good many people don’t want it changed. The same type of debate has already happened with Mesmers and their uncategorized heal. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Ether-feast/first#post5584121
And when the skill is bad, even with almost unanimous calls for change they don’t do it. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/josh-what-about-mending-physc-skills/first In fact they just nerf the skill.
Physical skills were already the worst utilities on Warrior, yet they couldn’t even find a way to balance a 20% cd reduction to Mending. A skill many Warriors call terrible.
You are asking them to nerf shelter Stop it.
Here is how the categorization worked for the heal skills. Beyond the traits that now affected them
By looking at this list you can tell how strong a heal was before HoT. Things that were unchanged or gained a single buff were lackluster before but now have good traits/runes. Things that received cd nerfs were great before, and have great traits (but without the traits they are worse than their preHot version).
Of the great heals, ether renewal/withdraw/consume conditions. Which way do you want Shelter to be changed? All got more cd, some got an added effect.
My guess is shelter would be increased to 40 seconds. Because a traited 20% of that would be 32, which matches the 2 extra seconds MoC gives you.
But since everyone runs Virtues why do you care?
Wrong.
Now you have a skill that is less useful unless you want to sacrifice the dps of unscathed contender.
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That second is the bunker build. No one ever heard of a bunker build with 11k health that didn’t have huge amounts of toughness AND healing power. The EHP of the first build is half the cleric build. Pick 2: healing power/toughness/vitality if you want to make a bunker.
I did use cleric staff because cleric elementalist did more damage than cleric druid. Now Druid successfully uses menders and maintains high power/high healing power.
For both builds you either lose healing or you lose damage.
Your best bet it to design a build with mender stats that works.
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Rangers have all these empathic connections to their pets. Why not the ability to warg like GoT?
You have control over all its abilities or just movement.
Use the code from tonics and mesmer clones.
Upon clicking a button you transform into your pet and your pet stops all action while cloning your appearance. This alters your stats to that of the pet and removes the benefits of gear/weapons.
Downing as the pet kills you. But you can instantly escape the pet form and teleport back to where you clone was (but this kills the pet). If your clone dies you can go full melisandre and res your body as the pet, but you have to walk as the pet back to the corpse.
Possible OP parts would be switching to the bird in WvW, and hiding to wait to res your body. But this occurs anway with corpses timing out and thieves hiding.
Maybe hiding among wildlife seems unfair but that’s also freaking cool. I want to pretend to be one of the polar bears by alpine hill keep. Snickering to myself as I scout them.
Anything is viable in WvW. The question is whether your team would prefer 7k heals or 7k crit from the meta build.
Just categorize shelter as a meditation.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_skills
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/UnblockableThe only instances where your health can be denied are if you run into a ward/wall that ccs, an engie/necro/guardian uses an unblockable cc, or for some reason a warrior/revenant is making their ccs unblockable with skills/traits.
So only 20ish skills out of hundreds can stop you from healing.
Shelter is arguably the best heal in the game, being slightly above withdraw (which can only be stopped with wards/walls or guardian pull skills) because the evade on withdraw is half the duration of the block from shelter.
You don’t know what you have.
Oh, I think I do. Been playing guardian for over 2 years now across all game modes. I have a pretty good idea of what Shelter can and can’t do. When HoT came out, I was extremely reluctant to switch over to Purification. After a lot of deliberation, talking with fellow players and advice from excellent duelists (in both pvp and wvw) I made that switch and it helped me to see that Shelter really isn’t all that. Don’t get me wrong, Shelter is an outstanding heal and is still a strong choice that competes exquisitely with Purification. I still use it often, but it’s not the be-all-end-all for guardians like some make it out to be.
Fact of the matter is that it’s not strong enough of a skill that it merits remaining uncategorized. Uncategorized skills are an artifact of the July 26th patch of 2015 which heavily revamped traits. At that time, categorizing particular skills would have made them OP, but nearly a year out from HoT, that wouldn’t be the case.
The only logical categorization for Shelter would be a consecration. The problem is that having Master of Consecrations add on 2s to the current Shelter would make it grossly op whereas nerfing shelter’s block time to a low enough duration (such that when traited, it would no longer be op) would make it completely useless if not traited. That’s why many are so willing to propose new ideas for Shelter so that it can become a consecration.
If you play all game modes then you know how worthless purification is outside of PvP.
Purification has the potential to heal 8k+ and prevent 10 attacks to the guardian (5 that miss and 5 that are dazed).
Shelter has the potential to heal 4k+ and block all attacks for 2 seconds.
Shelter doesn’t compete with purification at all. It competes with receive the light (self sustain vs group sustain)
Purification competes with signet of resolve (shorter cooldown/cast 8k burst heal and 5 daze/blind from trap vs longer cooldown/cast 8k burst heal from any range and condi removal from passive).
And purification competes with Litany when both are traited (same cooldown, longer cast 8k burst heal and 5 daze/blind from trap vs same cooldown, shorter cast 6k heal from any range and 2k+ sustain heal from maintaining dps).
You can try to undersell shelter all you want, but the devs didn’t touch it for a reason.
And you should be glad they didn’t.
In exchange for the potential to reduce consume conditions to 20 with traits, it now has 5 more seconds in cd and applies 5 stacks of vulnerability to the user. When they trait it their heal also blinds them. Adding more self conditions to corruption is interesting, putting self conditions on a heal that cleanses you is not. They have transfers but for important situations.
Here is what would happen:
Do you really think they are competent enough to balance it in a desirable way?
And why the hell would you want to mess it up for other players just because purification is better for “duelists.” It doesn’t take “2 years” to realise all gameplay is not 1v1 and melee.
Edit: the argument is not that categorizing makes the OP. The arguement is that categorizing makes them worse. It is a nerf. How do you think Anet got away with increasing the cooldown on Withdraw https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Withdraw-heal-not-updated yet they still to this day have not updated the healing to compensate.
edit: Tldr; all good heals are worse off from being categorized. They were nerfed for the potential to be slightly better if you traited them.
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The d/p, and s/p sets already have teleports from their 3, or 2 skill. And on flat ground HS has the same mobility as IA.
The greater punishment comes from d/p having both HS and BP.
That impacts s/d, s/p, p/d, and p/p because none of them can self combo for stealth.
BD from the DD line helped p/p and s/p, buts it’s still a very long way to go.
The evades of d/d and s/d still can’t compete with d/p because CaD steath is melee, and requires you to be in harms way, or to waste a teleport.
What is a far more serious problem than all meta pvp builds running shortbow. Is that the only current replacement to d/p is staff.
Staff has no stealth on it, from skills or self-combo. What it has is a skill 3 vastly superior to skill 3 on s/d (Less cast, greater distance, same initiatve, removes immobilize, and who cares about boon steal anymore when necros can convert them all for you, and you couldn’t kill the boon spam classes with s/d anyway).
If s/d, and d/d are supposed to be the middleground between d/p and staff, they certainty don’t show it.
Destroy shadow trap needs to be made a port with no pathing checks. There is no reason to keep it a shadowstep.
The reason is super obvious.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth_Disruptor_Trap
“Use to gain a Stealth Disruptor trap. This trap removes stealth from enemies (range: 1200) when activated. Costs 10 supply to deploy.”
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Schematic:_Watchtower
“A spy balloon is deployed above the tower, which will mark nearby enemies on the map.”
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/October_2015
“Keeps will now mark enemy players within their perimeter for the first 5 minutes after being flipped.”
In WvW people in keeps are supposed to be marked for 5 minutes. For people who are still in stealth, traps are invented to reveal them. The only way to avoid this is to be physically away from the area when the capturing takes place. Currently portal is the only way to pull off that feat. To compensate, portal entre is a glowing/humming circle on the ground.
Shadow traps are invisible, they don’t hum, their cooldown is half of portal’s, their range is twice portal’s, their duration before activation is twice portals.
Sure you won’t be able to teleport in a zerg. But no one is going to give thieves the ability to hide in keeps forever while destroying siege.
I also doubt, not that you suggested it, they would make the shadowstep on trigger the trap a teleport. So that you could place it outside the gates to structures, and hitch a ride in with the people who trigger them.
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Your best bunker has 300 less toughness, and 3000 less health than Druid and none of the damage. Why would I use either in ranked matches?
There is a trend to the abilities of the classes
- shapeshifters (revenant, engie, ele)
- offense (warrior, thief, necromancer)
- defense (guardian, ranger, mesmer)
The elite specs changed playstyle but didn’t drastically alter flavor.
- herald/scrapper/tempest each can’t be categorized as offense or defense
- berserker/daredevil/reaper don’t boost the team
- chronomancer/druid help the team more than they hurt the enemy.
Only dragonhunter was something unusual. Just one of its new skills, Fragments of Faith, helps allies. Which is net 0 because Virtue of Courage lost team support when it became Spear of Justice. All of its other skills damage or debuff enemies. There is no trait to change that.
Compare that to Chronomancer. Of all the new skills only Well of Calamity cannot help allies (aoe stability was part of Gravity Well’s initial design). But even Calamity and Gravity can be traited to benefit allies with alacrity.
We are tired of helping others all the time. If guardian get new flavor so should we.
The next elite spec needs to be like dragonhunter, or berserker/daredevil/reaper. It should not help our team through buffs/heals/damage mitigation/condi removal/support I haven’t thought of. It should help them indirectly by us killing stuff, and debuffing the enemy.
Edit: Dragonhunter actually has net 1 ally affecting skills, because all guardian weapons are required by law to have symbols that give boons, and the Symbol of Energy gives aoe vigor. Sue me.
Actually DH has a lot more support than you realise. The reduced cool down of wings of resolve and it’s increased AoE heal nature was a direct buff a DH support. Shield of courage blocks attacks for allies to as well as keeping it’s aegis, sounds like support to me. The rest of the trait line is selfish damage or control I’ll agree there but don’t under sell wings of resolve and shield of courage especially as DH increases damage by more than any other trait line for guards.
It’s not an undersell. They took two skills that supported allies before and increased potentcy, but decreased the radius of Resolve and Courage by more than half. They both had casts now that prevent virtue bombs with https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Renewed_Focus
So 2 new support skills (symbol/fragments of faith) + 2 more potent virtues -3 virtues with less range /no benefit to the team (spear of justice)= net 1 support skills gained
0 if you include the trait https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Soaring_Devastation which made their support skill hurt people.
Versus 1 well of calamity + 1 gravity well – 1 original design of gravity well (which gave allies stability) = net 1 skill that can’t help allies
0 if you include the trait https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/All's_Well_That_Ends_Well which made our offensive skills help people.
Get the difference?
The helpfulness of Chronomancer was everywhere.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Master_of_Fragmentation
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bountiful_Disillusionment
Our shatter gave resistance and applied a debuff on enemy dps.
Next time the shatter should give allies retaliation and put a damage condition on enemies.
0 boons that arent might/fury/retaliation. 0 conditions that aren’t damage conditions. We can’t always be the helpers.
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Most of this is true, but it also requires best case scenario with 0 leeway in build, potential targets, and more. This is a case where it sounds interesting enough to have it tested in a dev build. Since we don’t have that we’ll never know what its capabilities/imprint on the game truly are. However, that shouldn’t stop us from talking about it.
The other direction we could go is to create a Untyped/New skill category where Shelter would be aligned (which is most likely the better option overall), but that requires a lot more thinking than how someone might put Shelter into an existing skill category… [Snip]
You obviously don’t play WvW
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fire_
if you think 5 players receiving 8 hits over 3 seconds is "best case. "
And you don’t know anything about the other classes if you think all heals need a skill type.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mending
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ether_Feast
Don’t ask for changes that will result in nerfs to the class or the skill.
Anet has a history of messing up the balance on skills that lacked type. Just ask the necros screaming for their heal to have the “shelter treatment” https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/REVERT-THE-CONSUME-CONDITION-CHANGES/first#post5153877
You don’t know what you have.
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Just categorize shelter as a meditation.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_skills
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unblockable
The only instances where your health can be denied are if you run into a ward/wall that ccs, an engie/necro/guardian uses an unblockable cc, or for some reason a warrior/revenant is making their ccs unblockable with skills/traits.
So only 20ish skills out of hundreds can stop you from healing.
Shelter is arguably the best heal in the game, being slightly above withdraw (which can only be stopped with wards/walls or guardian pull skills) because the evade on withdraw is half the duration of the block from shelter.
You don’t know what you have.
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Here’s an idea for shelter as a consecration:
Consecrate the ground beneath you with a field of light. Allies that pass through the field gain a Shelter which blocks attacks for 1.5 seconds. (Combo field: Light)
Field duration: 3 seconds, Cast time: 1/2s, Healing: same as shelter’s current value, Cooldown: 35 seconds.
It seems rather messy, but if we simply converted the current shelter to a consecration it would be quite op when traited (24s cd, 4 seconds of blocking. Heck, I’d use this over purification easily). If shelter were changed to act like this, it would function as more of a team utility/defence (for which guardian is already specialized in) and wouldn’t be horribly op if traited.
This won’t work either. Look at Well of Precondition as it was before
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Well_of_Precognition&oldid=1133602
Vs now
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Well_of_Precognition
It had nothing to do with mesmer’s ability to use a utility 4 times in a row if necessary, because distortion/blur doesn’t stack. It has to do with limiting ways to attack while blocking/invulnerable.
To give allies a block they did not have to channel would require a skill with close to a minute cooldown. And it would not protect against all forms of action.
Shelter is essentially Infuse Light/Defiant Stance, but it blocks all incoming attacks for a short time rather than inverting their damage. Any unblockable damage you receive during it, barring a full interrupt, is nothing compared to the cc and conditions those other two heals receive (and have to deal with when the inversion ends).
You don’t know what you have.
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Don’t be ridiculous. Shelter/shield of courage/renewed focus are the only way to negate coordinated bursts. Pulsed aegis does not help you in wvw or people would be using it https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Well_of_Precognition
We can get far, far more out of our aegis blocks (or blocks in general) than a mesmer can. Not to mention, there’s no reason aegis couldn’t be pulsed every 1/2 or 1/4s. There’s a lot you can change when you’re in the business of brainstorming.
Even if aegis pulsed every 1/4 of a second. It would still be inferior.
A single Rapid Fire would make you vulnerable to all other damage from their team.
You like the idea because of the potential for trait synergy.
But do you really think they would allow you to heal five people for 6k+ while healing you an additional 3000? Subsequently causing 12,600 damage in the area, and 1k+ ticks of retaliation to anyone aoeing from afar.
What would occur is they would nerf the traits, or they would triple the cooldown for the skill.
There is no way they would change shelter and keep everything else as it was.
The devs want to avoid the hate from guardians for making healing breeze inferior again. As well as the hate from chronomancer/ranger/necromancer for producing a vastly superior ground targeted aoe healing field.
Shelter could become a consecration and pulse Aegis for 2-3s while reducing damage by 20%. Keep the hps the same and it should synergize much better with traits like Pure of Heart or Shattered Aegis. Likewise, it would fit in perfectly with other consecrations and how they interact with the Master of Consecrations trait.
Litany isn’t terrible when fully traited (hps is fairly decent without doing damage), though I wouldn’t complain about dropping the recharge to 25s (20s traited).
And then yeah, Spirit Weapon heal of some sort would be nice. My OCD wants there to be 6 utility skills of each skill type.
Don’t be ridiculous. Shelter/shield of courage/renewed focus are the only way to negate coordinated bursts. Pulsed aegis does not help you in wvw or people would be using it https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Well_of_Precognition
There is a trend to the abilities of the classes
The elite specs changed playstyle but didn’t drastically alter flavor.
Only dragonhunter was something unusual. Just one of its new skills, Fragments of Faith, helps allies. Which is net 0 because Virtue of Courage lost team support when it became Spear of Justice. All of its other skills damage or debuff enemies. There is no trait to change that.
Compare that to Chronomancer. Of all the new skills only Well of Calamity cannot help allies (aoe stability was part of Gravity Well’s initial design). But even Calamity and Gravity can be traited to benefit allies with alacrity.
We are tired of helping others all the time. If guardian get new flavor so should we.
The next elite spec needs to be like dragonhunter, or berserker/daredevil/reaper. It should not help our team through buffs/heals/damage mitigation/condi removal/support I haven’t thought of. It should help them indirectly by us killing stuff, and debuffing the enemy.
Edit: Dragonhunter actually has net 1 ally affecting skills, because all guardian weapons are required by law to have symbols that give boons, and the Symbol of Energy gives aoe vigor. Sue me.
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It should get an aoe pull on first whirl or something. Chaith it’s 100% correct, and that tree is not even a little bit worth barking up any more (why Mesmer illusions are exempt from this BS I will never understand…). You’re better off asking for some added affect that doesn’t go against a stated game design concept. Hence my desire for a pull.
That is super simple to understand.
The coefficient on all mesmer skills are based around having illusions. For sustain, a (mesmer + illusions) <= ( damage of other classes). For burst, coefficients are much higher because shattering kills our major source of dps.
Just as engie is balanced by potentially using quadruple kits, we are balanced by potentially having 3 phantasms out.
The 3 attacks that come from them each rotation have to inherit stats in order to every try competing with the 10+ attack in your rotations. (we failed btw we just give alacrity and quickness now)
What you want is a situation where a turret can do the damage of kit/phantasm.
If turrets/gyros worked like phantasms their health would be halved, their attacks would be more intermittent. They would have no command skills. They would keep their destroy abilities but the destruction would scale with your power and trigger enemy on hit abilities against you.
And most importantly of all, they could only have one target and they would die when it died.
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I love it how I just start getting ignored here.
Because the suggestions are about making Ventari viable. You know, the core legend.
Your ideas are to make it something completely different. That’s not fixing thats replacing.
I’ve had this idea that might work to reduce what people call tablet’s clunkiness, so I’m bringing it so that i can hear some opinions about it.
My idea is that the tablet follows us. When you use Ventari’s Will, the tablet teleports to the position we want and heals in its way back. If the tablet comes back slowly enough, you can readjust its trajectory by repositioning yourself (and more allies are affected by its healing). We can summon the tablet back to us (healing only the revenant maybe, to increase survivability?) using Ventari’s will again. Any utility skill prevents the tablet from moving while its being used, so that you can control better which area its affected.
I thought this might work since you’re not manually commanding it where to move, you’re repositioning yourself depending on the situation, in a game whose combat system is very mobile. Maybe, it could come together with some changes that make staff a ranged weapon or some healing buff that allows us to use hammer.
This was proposed a few times before but it produces more problems than it solves. For example we would have to lose ALL instant cast abilities on the tablet (except PE perhaps). You would have to essentially redo the legend from zero to keep it balanced in PvP.
@Daniel your last suggestion isn’t bad for PvP. Just note that it would have to be chill, since revenants aren’t supposed to have cripple. (source Roy)
It’s a freaking Centaur. He doesn’t know what he is talking about. Make it remove a moment impairing condition then. But Centaur and cripple has such a strong association in the game.
It’s not exactly because it’s Ventari but because the legendary centaur stance is a subset of the profession “Revenant”. It’s for the same reasons Elementalists do not have poison or warriors protection. They probably didn’t have Ventari in mind when they choose this restriction. In my opinion it was implied that Elite Specializations aren’t restricted by this.
Also please source. Because revenants were initially designed to spread cripple with malyx.
Here is my attempt to expand your weapon kit idea so that it fits with the way elite specs are designed to be fit core trait s.
So destroying auras exists in this game. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/King_of_Fires
Berserkers have the capacity to detonate their fire aura.
Translate phantasm and clone skills into auras that stack on Gemini and can be shattered. Gemini cannot be shattered, instead it benefits from those types of traits. And any trait/skill that counts illusion (including those that don’t count you toward the total) counts Gemini as an illusion. (e.g max shatter is 5)
Clone skills alter Gemini’s position and his AA. Phantasm skills alter it’s 2 skill. All auras add the stats of the illusion to Gemini (except vitality).
Here is a possible skill rotation:
The 2 skill inherits effects but not animation. Therefore all combo finishers are processed as having hit Gemini or its target. So say 2 is the dual stab attack you mentioned. If that happened in an ethereal field, and Gemini was warden/duelist/swordsman, it would:
To create Gemini you would shatter with F5 similar to https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Continuum_Split but without a time constraint. Rather F5 would decide Gemini’s base health, 1,000 per shattered illusion (including you). Gemini also gains 1,000 health per aura it has. Making its min health 1,000 and it’s max health 12,600 (with 3 auras, plus signet of illusions and phantasmal health). 12,600 doesn’t seem like a lot unless you consider that when Gemini has 3 auras all of its stats (except vitality) are triple yours. Gemini has no heal, as it is technically healed 1,000+ every time it gains an aura. Using F5 again kills Gemini and puts the shatter on full cooldown, but heals you for its current max health at destruction.
Your 6-10 utitlies skills would be kits (probably tomes) and they would change your weapon skills like engineer skills. These new weapon skills would command, so that shatters could still be used to shatter auras.
Tldr; all traits/skills that mention Illusions impact Gemini. Illusions exist as auras on Gemini with indefinite duration. Kits command Gemini and replace your weapon skills, shatters skills are unchanged. F5 summons Gemini, used again it destroy it and puts the skill on full cooldown + heals you for its max health.
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I’ve had this idea that might work to reduce what people call tablet’s clunkiness, so I’m bringing it so that i can hear some opinions about it.
My idea is that the tablet follows us. When you use Ventari’s Will, the tablet teleports to the position we want and heals in its way back. If the tablet comes back slowly enough, you can readjust its trajectory by repositioning yourself (and more allies are affected by its healing). We can summon the tablet back to us (healing only the revenant maybe, to increase survivability?) using Ventari’s will again. Any utility skill prevents the tablet from moving while its being used, so that you can control better which area its affected.
I thought this might work since you’re not manually commanding it where to move, you’re repositioning yourself depending on the situation, in a game whose combat system is very mobile. Maybe, it could come together with some changes that make staff a ranged weapon or some healing buff that allows us to use hammer.
This was proposed a few times before but it produces more problems than it solves. For example we would have to lose ALL instant cast abilities on the tablet (except PE perhaps). You would have to essentially redo the legend from zero to keep it balanced in PvP.
@Daniel your last suggestion isn’t bad for PvP. Just note that it would have to be chill, since revenants aren’t supposed to have cripple. (source Roy)
It’s a freaking Centaur. He doesn’t know what he is talking about. Make it remove a moment impairing condition then. But Centaur and cripple has such a strong association in the game.
I think Engineer would work with like a technological portal thematically.
Scarlet is a perfect example of an in game reason why engineer would be able to make portals. However the watchwork devices are already available to everyone.
It’s a long way until they can do ground targeted teleports.
1. Thief has Venom share which is actually a unique pay buff without an icon. No other class has anything close.
2. The concept behind engineer being a jack of all trades diminishes “unique buffs”. Technically all the throw elixer options are unique buffs depending in the effect. But it’s random which makes it so poor.
1. Venom share produces an icon.
2. He meant party buffs, but you are correct in that engineer has a tendency to use technology to copy the effects of others classes (water fields or moa even).
I didn’t know there was an icon for venom share. I thought it was only for the venom effect itself. Won’t check. Will just agree.
I’m aware. But that’s the niche design.
I am confused what the different between icon and venom effect means to you. Venom sharing is baseline now, so whenever you use a venom an icon appears on everyone’s bar that counts the uses left.
I think he was looking for niche effects. Because so far the JOAT design of engineer has left it with no unique abilities in exchange for access to almost all effects of the other classes. To reverse this so OP will understand
Here is a list of abilities engineer can mimic, and how many other classes have access to the effect.
The only things it hasn’t managed to steal are:
I’m still in favor of OP getting his trait. But there are reasons why Engie shouldn’t have everything. Thought apparently there are reasons why Engie should be able to use other classes elites on shorter cooldown and longer duration.
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honestly Anet can just combine Sharpshooter and hematic focus, as one trait, as they have done so before with others. Then just place the new minor trait(whether its 150 condi dmg or 150 expertise or w/e it may be). In the end, if the engi finally gets a trait party buff(w/e it may be) in any of the future patches, its a win in my book.
We can always discuss how good or how bad the said trait was after we have tested it personally.
Fine, I’ll play your game.
Remove stimulant supplier, make it “modern medicine” allies receive 150 vitality by being in your presence.
Look at the list on the bottom of this page https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Effect
You want something like the aoe effects in that list. Technically thief already has venoms, it’s engineer that is lacking.
But it’s not uncommon for engineer to be left out, after all they are the only class without signets.
(edited by Daniel Handler.4816)
1. Thief has Venom share which is actually a unique pay buff without an icon. No other class has anything close.
2. The concept behind engineer being a jack of all trades diminishes “unique buffs”. Technically all the throw elixer options are unique buffs depending in the effect. But it’s random which makes it so poor.
1. Venom share produces an icon.
2. He meant party buffs, but you are correct in that engineer has a tendency to use technology to copy the effects of others classes (water fields or moa even).
These changes do not require advance coding. They are only numerical changes.
Reduce the base healing of the tablet’s passive healing tick by half. And reduce the interval of the tablet’s passive healing tick from 3 seconds to 1 second.
Reduce the interval of nourishing roots from 3 seconds to 1 second.
Reduce the cooldown on Ventari’s Will from 3 seconds to 2 seconds.
Reduce the heal from Ventari’s Will by one fourth.
Reduce the cooldown on Protective/Diminish Solace to 3 seconds.
Comment with any numerical balances you think of.
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Main problem with rev as a healer is honestly the traits are garbage.
Shrouding mists is impossible to upkeep over 50% i honestly think this trait should be merge in to selfless amplification
Selfless amplification should scale on 75 healing power over 100 honestly i run almost highest healing power in game it only 23% it kinda weak for a grand master at 75 it would be 38%
natural abundance should be changed to drop 1 healing fragment every 3 seconds make them last for 10 seconds.
Tranquil Benediction should just be merge in to natural abundance
Nourishing Roots be buff to make tablet interval 1 second heal over 3 seconds.
core of rev healing itself is well design it just traits are sub par to it
From my last test 3 days ago, the healing increase from shrouded mist either doesn’t work or doesn’t work on regeneration. They should make it work, and reverse it so it matches the damage vs effect effect in the equilibrium trait. Over 50= damage, under 50= healing.
…[snip]
And I can guarantee you that Ventari/Glint will never be PvP meta since it requires you to make a team composition that does not include DPS Rev in the ESL. And that doesn’t seem to be happening any time soon. Therefore I’m aiming for it to be competitive rather than meta.
The meta doesn’t only extend to esl. And there is no rule against class stacking in any game mode. Having two revs, one dps, and one healing, was always allowed. We just can’t compete for a slot in any game mode.
For PvP:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Berserker_-_Macebow
The rare instance where brawler’s recovery is not sufficient they have healing signet and berserker stance for resistance. If it’s still too much, a full cleanse + stealth will save them, removing 3 condis from the 8+ on them will not. Five players per team and ventari isn’t going to replace the Druid slot anytime soon.
For WvW
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Team:Team_-_Boon_Meta
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Herald_-_Frontline_Sustain
Malyx and ventari both have no stun breaker, but as I mentioned before the team has healers/water fields, and pain absorption works better for condi removal.
For raids
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Herald_-_DPS/Support
You aren’t supposed to use more than 5 energy per second in the non Glint stance, becaue you are there for facet of nature uptime.
For fractals/dungeon
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Herald_-_S/A
Ventari is only swapped in for protectile defense and it is swapped out. Damage is more important than healing in this game mode.
Builds are personal preference, but there comes a point when you start losing fights because of your unsuccessful experiment. Ventari harms the group because it sacrifices uptime on boons when it tries to burst heal. And now your team doesn’t have the resistance, or damage you could have provided with other stances.
Ventari needs to be improved. It needs situations where its brand of utility is paramount. It needs to be good enough that people will risk facet of nature uptime, or group resistance.
Ventari needs
Salvation would have three paths. One focusing on healing modifiers, another dealing with condi mitigation through healing ticks/removal, and the last path would be blind/bleed/cripple just like centaurs in game https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Centaur_Banner
Hopefully with the cooldown changes ventari could use the lack of a target limit on ventari’s to heal and apply regeneration to the entire zerg.
That would make ventari unique, and useful. Being able to pull healing ticks on 20+ people by just coordinating our tablet movements as we were supposed to.
Tldr; for ventari to be the sustain healer, it’s sustain needs to affect way more than 5 targets. Regular heals to 20 people can compete with burst heal to five.
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The idea behind this spec would be removing all clones, and having a permanent phantasm. Most the skills would revolve around empowering yourself and your phantasm.
Idea for an F5 shatter – “split personality” – swap positions with your phantasm.
Then utilities based around your phantasm that is almost like weapon kits. That change its weapons and skills.
Your shatters will be replaced with weapon skills of the phantasm.
Example – utility “empowering swords” – phantasm is equipped with dual swords and gain sword abilities.
F1 – leap attack – leap into battle attacking for X dmg
F2 – dual stab – use both swords to deliver a critical blow
F3 – blade dance – twirl finisher – spinning dance that grants distortion and does x dmg
F4 – evasive heal – leap back healing for x amountMaybe someone more creative can elaborate on some abilities. Though I think a real pet mesmer can be fun.
It’s seems interesting. Although they made it clear elite specs that overwrite the class mechanic are backwards compatible with all core traits associated with said mechanic. I remember a previous thread like this only the clone skills and phantasm skills augmented you.
Perhaps to satisfy your idea and the core trait lines, clones and phantasms don’t overwrite the twin, they augment it or control it.
[snip]…
CC and in the AoE cleansing department both specs are similar now. The advantages that druid has that make them meta are:
- ease of use
- high burst damage
- High mobility and escape
- high sustain
Increasing the sustain Ventari/Glint has should solve most of the problems since this is the most noticeable weakness in PvP and it’s likely that druids will get nerfed.
Your previous comparison still stands even with any of the reductions you mentioned. No amount of delayed tablet removal can compare to popping Signet of Renewal to remove all condis from the team.
In any game mode Druid is better. They won’t change its best burst healing because it is an elite spec. Ventari will be stuck as the sustain option. They won’t give ventari better cleanse because we have malyx and jalis, and apparently condis are suppose to be our weakness.
“Druid is more about burst healing in key moments as it takes a while to build up astral force to enter celestial avatar, Ventari is more about sustain healing”
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/How-can-Ventari-compete-with-Druid/first#post5527470
There is no to be nerfed soon. There is hoping a situation arises where sustain healing is useful.
Also any build can be viable not every build can be meta. Ventari will never be meta in its current state. Shiro, jalis, malyx, are the stances you get to pair with Glint, and when we remove them for ventari we take away more from the team than we give.
(edited by Daniel Handler.4816)
I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone “blast the crap” out of a water field in PvP. People also generally do not stand in Geyser for long, and Wash the Pain Away has very limited range.
Also
No one wants Ventari. All it provides, meta team comps either have, or don’t need
Speak for yourself. I’m so tired of the lame point healer design being repeatedly used in this game.
Yes. But as I said, in PvP the ele vs ventari comparison no longer exists. It is ventari vs Druid and Rev is lacking.
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I’m not sure about who has the best burst though. The sequence Envoy of exuberance->swap to ventari->project tranquility->Ventari’s Will->Natural Harmony takes around a second and heals for 14k/12k PvE/SPvP (not including equilibrium and sigil of renewal.).
In pvp, no one uses ele for burst heal anymore after cleric went away. You compete with druid, and we already know how that matchup settles.
As for wvw
Envoy is 3/4 of a second,
project tranquility has a 1/4 second aftercast
Natural harmony takes 1 second.
So that’s 2 seconds of 6-7k per second healing
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Tempest_-_Midline_Auramancer
Instant:
{Healing ripple from attunement swap
elemental bastion from feel the burn}
Wash the pain away, 1.5 seconds
they are at 13k at this point.
They geyser to go above 14k at the 2 second mark, and then the team blasts the crap out of the water field in the 3rd second of this burst when natural harmony is still on cooldown. And while you are forced to stop burst healing after your second harmony, they still have the overload, and healing rain, both blastable sources of condi clear.
Any thing you could provide by increasing your healing power is useless for the meta, because they do all this healing with 1136 healing power, and ventari can’t outburst blasting water fields.
Ventari by itself does both the jobs of ele/guardian (the sustain healers as you described them) plus the jobs of projectile hate from guardian/mesmer/engi.
Rev is a jack of all trades,of course it’s going to be weaker than the specialists in this departament.
The very existance of this thread however proves you are dead wrong when you say no one wants Ventari XD.
Let me correct myself. The meta doesn’t want us. And I only said guardian was a sustain healer. Ele has the second best burst after Druid. Guard is just there to add to any sustain ele lacks for wvw.
And no, it does one of the jobs of those classes. You can’t do both. Eles can have projectile hate and burst heal at the same time. We can’t burst heal with ventari and protective solace.
Rev is glint/x. G/malyx for frontline, g/Shiro for backline, g/jalis for pve raids. G/Shiro for PvP meta.
Never Glint/ventari. It has no group stability. It has no burst heal, or water field. It has no reflect, or 600 range condi removal. It has no wards. It has no resistance. It has no quality self heal. It lowers group dps. It makes the revenant use too many skills when he should be focusing on boon duration uptime. Its tablet fragments take the team out of alignment.
It’s so unnecessary I can run the salvation traitline and boost my regeneration, while not running ventari at all, and still help my group more than I would be otherwise.
It has no use in this game. A jack of all trades that can sustain certain utilities. So far the only thing people need sustained is our dps, resistance/condi removal, and boon uptime from the facets.
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well, now your just being nit picky. I’m not saying i’m the best at anything, but i have played all 9 classes a really good amount across all game modes(some more than others obviously, but i play all classes to learn them, learn strengths and weaknesses, and changes every patch).
I remember using necromancer backline when WvW was still bursting with people(aka up until 2nd bday of GW2), and i remember full well that it had the blood magic trait line which made use of vampiric. It may not be current Meta of Meta’s but it was a meta, frankly i still use blood magic on my necro when i WvW on zerg fights.
I’m not trying to be confrontational i was mostly trying to clear out things, but my whole point as i have said a million times, is to get a message to Anet of giving engis and thiefs a unique trait party buff. The minor details aren’t really the whole point so i hope to move past that.
__________________________________________________________________As far as the mesmer alacrity is concerned, please refer back to the original post, i haven’t changed it since i posted the topic a few days ago and i remember saying that i wasn’t sure about the mesmer. But alacrity as i said, comes from the chronomancer trait line, 2 ways to get it: shatter skills and wells if traited. This means that even if you decide not to use wells with skills 6,7,8,9,0 you would still have access to alacrity.
Chronomancers in PvE tend to put as much quickness and alacrity in their builds to support the party, which is great as they are not sacrificing their best PvE build to give support which ultimately makes them a favorite for raids, which gives insane amount of Alacrity uptime(i remember it being almost 100% back when i was raiding in december lol).
__________________________________________________________________Overall, i want the conversion about this topic to be more constructive so i will stay neutral about this. As far as where the unique trait is gonna go traitwise, for me its not as important as long as it finds its use(whether pve,pvp,wvw). It could be condi dmg, condi duration, healing, vitality….although i do have my personal preference as shown in my other replies, its not as important as Anet first implementing it(their choice), and finally get some equality in terms of having a trait party buff.
I wasn’t being nitpicky. I was saying that your idea isnt as easy as it seems. When I mentioned alacrity I meant that you might not want a buff that requires an entire trait line, plus several utilities to pull off. A condi party buff would take away from the meta traits in engie condi builds. Healing power or vitality would be in a line that wasn’t used, which is what happened to necro party buff. You need to find where the trait will go and whether it interferes with most meta builds.
You don’t want them giving you what you want but having them take away what you wanted even more.
I’m still not sure you want what you are suggesting. But I’ll bump your cause either way.
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What i meant for #2 was that i don’t wan’t the engineer to build around a party buff, like for example i don’t want the engineer to put as much super speed in his skill bar just to put out enough support for the party. To make it even clearer, in PVE a warrior does not build around Empower Allies. The traits comes with his trait line for his meta build while he brings banners and other utilities to increase his and his party’s dps outside of empower allies.
To make this even clearer, when someone says META build, it does not automatically mean PvE, there are meta builds for WvW and PvP as well, unless i specified META PvE like i did above.
Yes, the empower allies, spotter, assasins promise is part of meta builds in pve…..while the Guardians’ Strenth in Numbers, and Eles’ Soothing Mist is part of WvW Meta builds, and have been part of PvP Meta builds occasionally, all in all they all have their uses.
—-
My original post addresses mostly problems that occur in PvE but i did mention that not all the trait party buffs that i wrote down are offensive, some are defensive, some are used in WvW and PvP only. Although i would rather get an offensive trait party buff for my engineer, honestly i’ll take anything as my main problem lies in the fact that 7/9 classes that i mentioned in my OP has atleast 1, while thief and engineer has none to show for.
That is also a lie. For necromancer their party buff isn’t meta in any game mode. So 7 becomes 6. You keep adding mesmers to the total but you shouldn’t, their buff requires traits and the skill bar to spread alacrity. So 5 out of 9. Hardly a trend.
Also what trait are you willing to give up for this party buff? Since the only unique buff left to you is condi duration which firearms trait would you drop?
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A legend should be compatible with other combinations.
What good is it if only Glint/Ventari builds work….It’s the ultimate expression of ventari. You have to stop everything else for a few seconds in order to heal yourself a good margin, and you are punished for it with bad energy.
100% agree with this bit,I would however like to add that while you can still AA whilist the tablet casts it’s heals (let’s be honest weapon aa deals more damage than actual weapon skills…unless we are trying to damage the breakbar). For me the expresion of Ventari in pvp is this – leave yourself open to most melee range cc.
You don’t need perma protection. The amount provided by on aura application is sufficient.
Maintaing Protection is easier to do with Ventari and Herald traitline than it is with Sigil of Chaos because it doesn’t strain our energy as hard and also provides some healing on top.
It wasn’t a question of whether revenant had good protection application. It’s whether perma is necessary… [snip]
40% damage reduction is restricted to the Elementalist (similar to rolling mists). (sauce Karl)
Keeping up perma regen is also pretty trivial on revenants and rev regen heals for soothing mists+elementalist regen at 1200 healing power (Rev Regen is stronger after this point). Also you can keep up some extra Fury and a few might stacks.
Even if your uptime is better it doesn’t matter.
There are basically no situations where high sustain hps is better than medium sustain and high burst heals. Maybe the exception is under siege fire in wvw. But even then people use ele water fields.
We had this discussion before. But it was Druid vs Ventari.
My overall impression of it is the following.
Druid:
- Better burst
- More self heal
- More control
- Sacrifices less damage
- More condi cleanse
- Better Mobility
Herald (Ventari/Glint):
- Better sustain Healing
- Far more damage reduction around 54%-74% by itself compared to 48% (both with protection and clerics).
- Better projectile hate
- More party wide boon upkeep (perma protection, swiftness, fury, regen)
- More blocks/invulnerability
However Roy I do have to agree with the feedback on other topics. To make ventari more competitive it needs to lose that cast time on tablet movement and increase its speed and range a bit too (to 1200-1500).
And Roy did your suggestions but they didn’t change what people needed. Druid is still meta healer for raid. And though it was not that threads subject, auramancers are the meta healers for wvw. You could replace the word Druid with auramancers and it would be the same. Their burst is better and other healing wvw classes (Guardian) can make up for any lack in ele’s sustain.
Medium to high sustain isn’t useful to avoid spike. High burst with low sustain is all people need.
People can get their heals from ele/guardian/druid, their projectile hate from guardian/mesmer/engie, their condi hate from all classes with shouts. And their boons from Glint.
No one wants Ventari. All it provides, meta team comps either have, or don’t need
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I mean…that’s not really what protected phantasms is for. It’s basically a totally worthless trait that nobody ever uses. Phantasms don’t really draw aggro in PvE at all, plus they have a 95% damage reduction when not targeted in PvE. The only possible use for that trait is to get a phantasm 1 second to attack in a WvW zerg….but yeah…that’s obviously sorta pointless.
Triumphant distortion was one thing I used to solo things. Perhaps I’m living in the 2 domination 6 Dueling 6 inspiration past. Regardless.
None of the matters anymore.
Restorative Illusions has nowhere to go. Discussing how terrible other master traits are doesn’t affect ops idea about moving ri’s tier.
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If you want unique, and we limit ourselves to traits.
- warrior, power.
- rangers, precision. With druid, condi/power damage increases.
- ele, a persisting heal,
- guardian, toughness, and a persisting heal + boosted endurance regen
- necro, life steal, no bleeding out
- mesmer, alacrity, and damage reduction
- revenant, ferocity, and condi/power damage reduction. With Herald, boon duration
So either healing power or condi duration.
But serious question. How is that actually that much of a disadvantage? And why are you focusing on buffs that appear on the bar. Warrior has banners that put buffs on the bar and can enhance every stat except condi duration.
With elixir x you stole the unique elites of 3 classes. You also can use 8/9 combo fields on a single build. Only ranger has access to even that many, but half of those are bound in what pet he uses.
Also if you are going to include Mesmer’s alacrity, then you have to include your super speed.
Ok so let me give you the reason why i’m only focusing on that small bit and not everything thats wrong abut the engineer.
1. 7 of the classes i mentioned has that unique to the profession buff that is NOT a BOON, NOT a CONDITION, NOT a UTILITY SKILL….these are traits that have party buff built on them, and you will really notice them as they have UNIQUE SKILL ICONS that show up in your boon/buff bar.
2. I don’t want the either the thief or the engineer to build around this 1 buff, i want it to be there regardless of there META builds, as an additional unique buff, which means they are not just any boon that other classes have access to. So the thief/engineer can still use a META build with META utility skills and still have access to this trait buffs.
3. Which brings me to the point why i was not sure to add mesmer alacrity, i added it because it is available only because of the chronomancer trait line, and it is an effect that are unique to chronomancers, UNLIKE superspeed that awhole lot of other classes have ACCESS to. Alacrity is closer to aegis as guardians have an ALMOST EXCLUSIVE BOON which is aegis, but other classes have rng access to aegis so its not exactly comparable to alacrity, and also aegis is a boon, alacrity is not, it is an effect but it is not considered a boon.
4. I am not trying to fix all the problems of the engineer, that would take forever as even Anet themselves have never balanced the game. Each class/specialization has their own uniqueness and different playstyles, If the engineer has access to skills like banners then banners won’t be unique to the warrior class.
5. Yes, engineers have alot of access to combo fields and blasts and finishers, and i don’t have any issues with those, i am not saying that the engineer’s skills are bad or needs or be buffed (i’m not), the point of this post is not to make the engineer like have warriors skills or ranger skills and so forth, the point of this post is to have a unique trait buff that only the engineer or the thief has access to much like spotter, etc.
You lost me at number two. Half of the meta builds do not use their party buff trait. If you are going to request that type of buff you have to deal with the consequences of it being bound to single trait line. For instance guardians and elementalists can’t use their buff in their meta builds because they come from low dps lines.
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If you want unique, and we limit ourselves to traits.
So either healing power or condi duration.
But serious question. How is that actually that much of a disadvantage? And why are you focusing on buffs that appear on the bar. Warrior has banners that put buffs on the bar and can enhance every stat except condi duration.
With elixir x you stole the unique elites of 3 classes. You also can use 8/9 combo fields on a single build. Only ranger has access to even that many, but half of those are bound in what pet he uses.
Also if you are going to include Mesmer’s alacrity, then you have to include your super speed.
There is nowhere to put it. And protected phantasm is for phantasm builds that want the illusion to perform its full attack before it is destroyed, especially in pve where phantasms draw aggro.
Edit: this especially is no longer relevant after Anet QoL changes. The sentence before the comma still stands.
(edited by Daniel Handler.4816)
Engie.
Warrior has the most compo finishers, but only one field type.
Engineer has access to all fields (except dark), and can be customized into whatever you or your friend needs.
Otherwise go guardian. You don’t need glint when guardian+warrior have all the boons anyway. Especially since giving stability with a guardian is not as intense as having to slot a whole legend.
This might work in small team fights but in larger ones…if I have seen right nobody focused you that’s why you could do your job. Normaly 3 man burst would kill this build. You were lucky that there wasn’t any condi pressure out there.
EDIT: and yea you didn’t take shiro so you fired one of best mobility skills in game. Mobility is more important than few boons.
How does what you wrote not apply to Auramancers? Except for the condi part which is usually tolerable if there are two or less condi users. In terms of handling incoming burst this build is actually better than auramancers and possibly druid. Sustained pressure is its actual weakness.
In my own experience I do indeed perform better in 2v2 and that’s for 2 reasons:
- I can read 2v2s better than 3v3+ (still have to practice 3v3+)
- Pressure in 2v2s is low enough that I can play more aggressively.
This build like Auramancers needs their teammates to peel for them in larger fights, which is why I’m only using it in unranked outside of my premade.
Shiro mobility is indeed useful and is used on the bunker/decap variant. Glint goes beyond “a few boons”. Regen is a considerable part of this builds healing output and Infuse Light is more reliable than Enchanted Daggers as a heal. Also higher protection upkeep and a launch over a stun.
I’m also pretty sure that the title was “Ventari/Glint” not “Ventari/Shiro”.
The answer to that question is that auramancers move more. Their auras come from 600 radius so they are harder to focus.
If you want to even compare to them you have to be able to move your body and the tablet. And keep perma regen on all allies.
I never got condirupt though I made builds for it. It’s style seems sloppy compared to power traits.
To slow, immobilize, inflict longer dazes that can stun, or increase cooldown conflicts with confusion/torment.
One is actively creating inaction, while the other is passively creating it through enemies trying to avoid high ticks.
Id rather use maim to have much higher pressure, than a situation I don’t control.
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