Guild Wars 2

Shiren.9532:

wouldn’t E reveal his/her identity to other OoW members?).

Unless their mission was of great important that only the Master of Whispers themselves had the clearance to know.

Lord Rheios.4152:

An interesting conversation happened last night. It boiled down to the individuals being the most verbally aggressive seem to believe they are acting as a motivating force to force people to improve. While the contrary of encouragement is trying to convince people to actually improve. On the whole I’d estimate the second approach is more effective, but at least the first group might, on the whole, be doing it without malice?
Just relating a conversation. Anecdotal of course.

It’s also possible they have malicious intent with their verbal aggressiveness and simply claiming it’s to motivate others to improve.

Leviathan.3690:

Mordremoth is the most likely candidate for Sylvari corruption since it presumably is very plantlike and its power probably focuses on Nature. For all we know the Nightmare Court is the Sylvari equivalent of the Sons of Svanir who have embraced it and the Nightmare husks might very well be the Icebrood equivalent and Nightmare Courtiers turn into them eventually.

Yet the Sons of Svanir praise Jormag as some kind of Totemic spirit while the Nightmare Court offers no such praise or acknowledgement.

Also how does anyone know Mordremoth is the name of the Jungle Dragon. All we know is that the combat log labels the attack “Claws of Modremoth” which doesn’t really give any information on Modremoth. It could just be a placeholder name the person in charge of labeling the attacks thought sounded cool or a deliberate misdirection for anyone who thought they could get some secrets from the combat log.

Or perhaps the name “Claws of Modremoth” is a hint towards the existence of beings of equal or greater power to the Elder Dragons, which may or may not have a connection with the Sylvari and their dream. The apostate in Guild Wars 1 alludes to Abaddon acquiring his godly power from another older god that was depose. We also find in the gw.dat files of the original game mention of an Arachnia and insectoid gods. Perhaps these are also clues about Modremoth’s nature, perhaps he is one of these older gods or a being mistaken for a god.

It could also be possible the Sylvari are indeed golems, made by the Seers as a anti-dragon army long ago, that have simply been activated now. We know the Mursaat and Seers had a devastating war with one another, well mostly for the Seers, perhaps the Seers just finished engineering the Sylvari and were forced to stash the seeds in a remote area to prevent the Mursaat from destroying their final contribution to the long war with the Elder Dragons. The other cycles would have studied Elder Dragon Energy just like we have, in hopes of discovering a weakness or vulnerability against these fearsome beasts.

Eluveitie.1290:

Wasn’t the Grand High Sovereign killed by the PC, though?

If we accepting the possible existence of one alternative timeline/reality then it is possible that infinite number of alternative timelines/realities also exist. One Grand High Sovereign was killed, but that doesn’t rule out another has become aware of our timeline/reality’s existence.

Minos.5168:

Darkbattlemage.9612:

The result would be more pve players complaining even more about being forced into a game mode they don’t want anything to do with and pvp players complaining that they have pve players encroaching on their territory.

Except that ANet has stated that they would like for PvE players to feel more comfortable with WvW.

In the end, the more people that are willing to play either game mode the better… Because it improves their metrics.

“Oh, we have X number of people playing WvW on a daily basis.”

“Oh, we have X number of people going into dungeons on a daily basis.”

Wanting and having are not the same thing.

What it actually has caused is an escalation of tensions between the PvE and PvP communities, just look at the forums. They’re not the first, nor will they be the last, to try and force these two groups into co-existing with one another. The result will always be the same. The bulk of both communities will simply abandon the game for others that meet their particular interests with the remnants, while appearing to be numerous, not being remotely sufficient enough to justify the attempt in the first place.

Also there will still be the old argument of who is favored. If a new patch comes out that gives more PvE elements then PvP the PvP players will feel ignored despite the two modes being merged, while PvE players will feel ignored if the PvP elements outweigh the PvE elements.

Problem after problem after problem. In the end do the gains outweigh the potential loss?

Minos.5168:

I’m just wondering why the Aetherblade Pirates and Flame Legion Charr haven’t yet been updated to feature the downed mechanic introduced for Toxic Alliance’s Nightmare Court Sylvari.

It would have been especially appropriate given the Aetherblades are in the Mists now…

I think it’s great to help bridge the gap between PvE and WvW, as there’s a definite difference to a direct NPC kill (without a downed state) and the downed state…

Downed state has its own unique abilities and their allies still have the opportunity to help rally them.

The goal is to reduce the differences between PvE and WvW, so that PvE players feel more at home in WvW and vice-versa, right?

The result would be more pve players complaining even more about being forced into a game mode they don’t want anything to do with and pvp players complaining that they have pve players encroaching on their territory.

KyreneZA.8617:

All that dirty, stinking charr did was ‘save’ LA from another dirty, stinking charr.

Evon’s not dirty, the dirt and fleas found his prices extremely unreasonable.

Zone.1275:

Zanshin.5379:

When she went into the cude Primordus managed to get in her head. He’s been whispering her what to do in order to free him.

I don’t think it’s Primordius because Vorpp said that anything Scarlet brought with her when she left the cube she had with her before. If it’s a dragon then it’s probably Mordremoth because it would make more sense for a forest dragon to have dormant influence over a Sylvari than a rock dragon.

Or it could be possible a demon possessed her prior to the experiment and her Sylvari nature simply trapped it in her mind. The Edge of the Mists Trailer voice does sound deeper and distorted (I’m assuming its Scarlet talking to us) So perhaps she going to open Mad King’s box and let every resident of the Mists into our world, or try to at least. The Elder Dragons could be nothing more than a misdirection so that we would pool our efforts into chasing a false lead.

Luto.1938:

As an honestly honest Thief I can honestly say with thief like honesty that I’d never kill another player in the Edge of the Mists.

An honest thief? No one has ever heard of those, guess because they die “accidentally” during training.

Uruz Six.6594:

There’s only one explanation.

If you really want to get some reactions change aliens to Abaddon lol.

Miroe.2054:

Then the wiki article is heavily misleading
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sons_of_Svanir
So the second paragraph isn’t about the sons of Svanir?

Doesn’t appear misleading to me. Jormag using his greater cunning and intellect to take advantage of the Norn’s independent nature to slowly corrupt the race. After they have passed their initiation he begins the process of slowly strip them of their free will and transforming them into obedient Icebrood. If he were just to transform them into an obedient servant form the start his little cult wouldn’t be doing as well as it has, in fact it would be purged by the other Norn immediately.

Miroe.2054:

Its 100% perhaps that way. Its a good theory though. I rather wondered why one can say with certainty that they cannot have free will.

Because it hard to see the Elder Dragons would allow their servants to retain free will indefinitely.

Miroe.2054:

When the destroyer queen was slain in EotN, the destroyers went back under the earth, they became uncoordinated. How on earth can they become uncoordinated when they are all mind controlled by the same dragon. (consider that he was able to create the queen) And if they need a champion to guide them, on what was their decision to run for cover based on? On their own self-preservation?

Perhaps because the Dragon minions act similar to the Tyranids in Warhammer 40k. The Elder Dragon is essentially the Norn Queen, usually kept far from the battleground unless they choose to directly involve themselves in the fray. The Champions are the Snyapse creatures acting as extensions of its signal. During the time period of Eye of the North Primordus was beginning to wake up, thus their control will be very weak. This is why the Great Destroyer was created to act as a extension cord for Primordus will on the vast armies of destroyers. With the great destroyer destroyed it forced Primordus back into slumber for another two generations. This sudden absence of his presence probably triggered a recall function within the destroyers mentality, hence why they retreated back underground and became uncoordinated. Despite their various appearances the destroyers encounter in bulk were nothing more than drones as such wouldn’t require free will.

BrunoBRS.5178:

did i get that right?

Yes that my hypothesis in its entirely.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

In GW1 we only had (generalising out of the different species by appearance) frost wurms, regular fleshy wurms, and sand wurms – No Jungle Wurms, despite our ability to explore through the Maguuma Jungle and the Tarnished Coast. So it’s quite possible that Jungle Wurms are corrupted regular Wurms?

Or they could simply be a species that had no reason to surface until now. Or, I know the map shown in the Chantry of Secrets is inaccurate, it is possible they were found deeper in the jungle and have been forced to migrate to the areas we can explore.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Darkbattlemage.9612:

BrunoBRS.5178:

why the hell would palawa joko or the mursaat make any of this? seriously, just throwing names for lulz is not theorycrafting. you can claim queen jennah is behind everything and it would be just as productive to the discussion.

Shhh you only encourage those kinds of speculations.

I’ll admit I was joking when I mention Palawa Joko but was actually being serious with the Mursaat.

The Mursaat have a perfect opportunity to return to the forefront. The Elder Dragons have awaken and while one was defeated by the races of this cycle, it came at great cost. How many did Zhaitan’s army kill before and during the campaign against him? There is going to be people that will feel this was a pyrrhic victory and be easy prey for the Mursaat manipulations.

Also if I just wanted to throw names for laughs I would of said Kormir or Trahearne was behind it. Or just to really get the crazy speculations going the possibility we might see the actual implementation of Arachnia and the other “gods of insectoid beings” mention in the gw.dat of the original game.

but what would the mursaat have to gain? they came back into the fray during prophecies because they needed to power their soul batteries to remain out of the way of the dragons. the fact that the dragons are alive and kicking is the very reason they would try to hide, not manipulate someone into drawing as much unwanted attention to them as possible

You right the Mursaat have nothing to gain by directly involving themselves in this fight. However the Elder Dragons pose as much a risk to the Mursaat as they do to the Asura, both races heavily utilize magic. So even if the Mursaat successfully hid from the Elder Dragons in this cycle they will still have to be on guard for the next cycle and the one after that. But if they can manipulate the races into developing the technology to defeat the Elder Dragons for them then they could focus all of their attention on their other pursuits. Perhaps they found the advancement of this cycle’s races to be too slow for their needs. Perhaps that is why they are manipulating Scarlet. Through her actions she is hasting the development of technology that could prove instrumental in combating the other five dragons.

BrunoBRS.5178:

why the hell would palawa joko or the mursaat make any of this? seriously, just throwing names for lulz is not theorycrafting. you can claim queen jennah is behind everything and it would be just as productive to the discussion.

Shhh you only encourage those kinds of speculations.

I’ll admit I was joking when I mention Palawa Joko but was actually being serious with the Mursaat.

The Mursaat have a perfect opportunity to return to the forefront. The Elder Dragons have awaken and while one was defeated by the races of this cycle, it came at great cost. How many did Zhaitan’s army kill before and during the campaign against him? There is going to be people that will feel this was a pyrrhic victory and be easy prey for the Mursaat manipulations.

Also if I just wanted to throw names for laughs I would of said Kormir or Trahearne was behind it. Or just to really get the crazy speculations going the possibility we might see the actual implementation of Arachnia and the other “gods of insectoid beings” mention in the gw.dat of the original game.

bibakilla.4903:

The entrance is hidden, and there is a invisible wall, so you can’t get over the entrance behind the bushes.

I tried it a few minutes ago, looks like there is a new wall there, the old “way” to get in isn’t available anymore. Look’s like they updated it with the last patch or something.

Why do I get the feeling this might be reimplemented as either the headquarters or one of Scarlet’s many lairs?

Mr Mango.3504:

Yeah it’s not Abaddon, Shiro, Varesh nor Vizier Khilbron.

So Palawa Joko and the Mursaat are still possibilities?

Kalarchis.8635:

For their immunity being magical in nature, I had that thought too. But why couldn’t it also be biological? Does a magical immunity have to be sourced in magic? And if the Dream is the cause of the immunity, would that make Malyck not immune? If that were true, then perhaps the reason the dragon could get a grip on Scarlet’s mind was b/c she rejected the dream? An interesting idea.

Outside the Guild Wars universe those creatures who possess a biological immunity to certain magical effects or energies was due to said creatures being magical organizations. Those creatures that were the same type as the magic they were immune still exhibit the behavior characteristics seen amongst other users of that type. Dragons of Dungeons and Dragons for example are, as a collective race, not inherently good or evil just like Arcane Magic is not inherently good or evil. Seeing how the Sylvari are free to choose what they wish to be I would say their immunity doesn’t stem from being Dragon Minions but rather being of whatever is Dragon Energy’s opposite, perhaps this is chaos magic.

Plunder.8195:

Also, as far as I know, you base your conclusion that dragon minions do not die from each other’s corruption on several monsters in the CoE dungeon (Kudo’s monster and subject Alpha) (please correct me if I’m wrong). From my point of view science can make a lot of things happen that would normally be not possible, so I don’t feel it is a very strong argument.

Or it could be possible that the Sylvari are not related to the Jungle Dragon in any form and the Inquest are simply trying to utilize the Sylvari’s immunity to Elder Dragon Corruption to liberate their creations from the Elder Dragon’s influence. The reason why we encounter nightmare hounds and such is probably because it is far easier to steal from the Nightmare Court than it is from the Pale Tree. Or perhaps they were donated by the Nightmare Court who may feel the need to have some means of defending themselves from the Elder Dragons.

Tamias.7059:

A few possible answers that come to mind are:

1. Elder Dragons are a phenomenon unique to Tyria, and the areas surrounding it. This is unlikely to me, since the magical ley lines span the globe, and the Elder Dragons have been made out to be some primordial force integral to the smooth operation of the world (so what happens when we kill one, btw?), so there’d be no reason they’d be specific to one geographic region.

Perhaps the Elder Dragons function similar to the Weapons of Final Fantasy VII they respond to threats to the planet’s very survival. Perhaps the abuse of magic by the races of that cycle triggers the activation of the Elder Dragons.

If this is how they work then the effects of the Searing, Jade Wind and finally Nightfall may have been the trigger for their awakening. Since the Asura are prominent users of magic and the Charr have discovered gunpowder perhaps the Elder Dragons have come to view the races of the Tyrian continent the largest of the threats to the world’s safety.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I somehow doubt that souls can survive being destroyed – it’s said those souls “killed” in the mortal world are sent into the Mists, but what of souls “killed” in the Mists? Souls have to eventually disappear somehow (be it reincarnation or their energy dissipating), otherwise the Mists would literally have to be infinite as does The Underworld and other multi-racial afterlives.

That’s what I thought but I double checked the guild wars wiki to find it states the current fate of his soul is unknown, so it may be possible they either had further plans for him or left it such they could reimplemented him whenever they felt like.

Astralporing.1957:

In those weeks in Obsidian i have seen more hate in the game than everywhere else since the launch (including teq/wum/marionette events).
Mixing PvE people with WvW crowd is just highly destructive for the community.

Have they surpass the hatred exhibit during the Queen’s Jubilee/Gauntlet?

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The funny thing is… Abaddon’s has so much less to him himself than Scarlet does. He’s perhaps the least fleshed out major villain of GW1 aside from the Great Destroyer, nor does he even talk, but he’s liked the most.

Kind of humorous.

In my opinion the amount of lore available about either character is roughly even. Anyways the reason I prefer Abaddon over Scarlet is that I find his origins to be more interesting. Also, in my opinion anyways, I feel there is still a lot Anet could use from Abaddon in not only the current arc but in other arcs.

What of the Lost Scrolls Vizier Khibron used to cause the Cataclysm that sank Orr in the first place? Or the forbidden books he had in his possession? Were they items of Abaddon that were hidden away by his worshipers when the other five gods erased him from the pages of history? Or perhaps they are far older than any of the human gods, possibly things he inherit after acquiring his powers from that old depose god?

What of Shiro Tagachi? We do not know what happened to his soul after his defeat within the Temple of the Six gods.

Or since he is the God of Secrets, it is possible Abaddon had in his possession ancient text of the previous races concerning the Elder Dragons.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Well, per an interview, the machine was a “sensory deprivation” tank of sorts. Meaning that she literally went into her own head. It is far more likely she went into the Dream – or beyond it using the Dream’s tie – than going into the Mists or the Eternal Alchemy (this could also be why Omadd’s earlier test subjects died, while Scarlet survived – the Dream connection saved her kitten ).

Oh I see. As for the eternal alchemy, isn’t the mist consider just another cog within it to the Asura just like the Human Gods?

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Darkbattlemage.9612:

Honestly I’m surprise someone took it serious I was expecting the response, if any, to be that this is a serious discussion and such nonsensical replies aren’t allowed.

So basically the comment I gave you? ^^

Exactly

BrunoBRS.5178:

well the devs kinda made it sound like it’s a big deal to her character that she’s orphan, sooooooo that’s why it’s being discussed in the first place.

Well then there only two ways I see this being important to the plot.
The first is Scarlet unintentionally, or intentionally, rescued her in the past leading to her interest in the Sylvari.

Or

During her stay at Rata Sum Scarlet acted like a surrogate mother to the orphan Asura.

Of course there are countless other ways this can be important that I’m just not seeing.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Darkbattlemage.9612:

dephyrius.4089:

That she’s Omadd’s daughter.

This isn’t a serious reply, more of a random thought. What if she’s the daughter of Zojja and Kudu?

On that note it entirely possible she Councillor Yahk’s daughter and Zojja attempting to guide the young asura away from the Inquest line of thought.

why would zojja have a kid with the person she hates the most?

I did say it was a random thought. Also that could be one of the reasons she hates Kudu so much. Honestly I’m surprise someone took it serious I was expecting the response, if any, to be that this is a serious discussion and such nonsensical replies aren’t allowed.

Stooperdale.3560:

I would add the following thoughts
- Perhaps Scarlet is just imagining her dragon because she is mad. Nobody except the mad person has any evidence for this.
- The orders were supposedly big enemies of the dragons before the Pact was formed so Scarlet could be attacking the orders on that basis, keeping uncertainty with the personal story timeline.
- I don’t understand how Scarlet sits outside the Nightmare Court, or inside, or anywhere else to do with nightmare. With Mordremoth involved it just gets too confusing as to how the dragon is involved with nightmare too.
- As usual the writing tells us one thing but shows another. Her book is written in very logical manner but tells us she is mad. Her cave shows cartoon horror designs when she’s meant to be a genius inventor. Trying to meet a dragon doesn’t explain any of her actions whatsoever. It’s as if her plot had a rewrite in November.

Perhaps her form of madness compels her to document things in a logical and orderly manner. Insanity is random and comes in a variety of forms. As for the dragon perhaps she doesn’t intend to meet one but rather create one. She seems to be a Mad Scientist type villain so it entirely possible all the events associated with her are actually “side effects” of her true objectives, whatever they could be.

dephyrius.4089:

That she’s Omadd’s daughter.

This isn’t a serious reply, more of a random thought. What if she’s the daughter of Zojja and Kudu?

On that note it entirely possible she Councillor Yahk’s daughter and Zojja attempting to guide the young asura away from the Inquest line of thought.

Omnitek.3876:

Why do people act like death in this game is such a horrible thing? Oh no!!! You got killed! Bring some guild members/friends and take care of business.

From my observations I would say that why so many PvE players find dying in video games to be a horrible thing is because it wastes time they believe could be better spent. The reason it doesn’t seem to have such an impact on PvP players is because they have just accepted it as a part of the game and simply continue pursuing whatever they were prior to their character’s demise.

Omnitek.3876:

I would say pretend it is a dungeon, but in this game, you run past every enemy, exploit jumping and anything to skip content and finish faster. I guess you find that fun, but most wvw/PvP players dont.

How is this behavior different from behavior exhibit in other games? Also I find your claim that most WvW/PvP players don’t use exploits to be lacking evidence.

Of course the PvP community can claim they don’t commit such violations of the code of conduct but can they actually prove it?

The short answer is no they can’t, just like they can’t actually prove that PvE players use such exploits.

Omnitek.3876:

I will sell my zerg services to escort you. Just like people sell dungeon bosses. Lol Karma is a kitten eh?

Yes Karma can be a kitten, at times playfully pawing at your fingers while others clawing at your face. I know the sentence is a result of the filter but I couldn’t resist making a comment about it.

On a random silly note, what if Scarlet Briar has somehow escaped the confines of the game and now is causing havoc in the real world. The force alliance of PvE and PvP players seem to be something she would do. Perhaps she wants to create a Zerg so massive it causes the Servers to accidentally lose data, such as the Pale Tree.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Either the councillor is lying (wouldn’t doubt it!), or that’s not a perfect copy.

Both could be correct. Or it could be Councillor Yahk was telling the truth, as in the Inquest publicly kicked her out to avoid any political backlash her experiments might cause but in truth she was still a member.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

She may be a copy of Scarlet from some other point in time and location

So its entirely possible she could of been standing outside of the blast radius witnessing the reactor’s explosion and commenting about it to one of her lackeys?

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I don’t think that was Scarlet visiting the Fractal like us – theoretically, then she should have been turned into Inquest too, since that’s an effect of the Fractal and not Dessa.

What if she was using a device similar to Headmaster Omadd’s machine? From the short story it seemed to actually project her conscious directly into the Mists. I’ll admit I don’t understand the technical information of Fractals but I’m assuming the fractal acts as a pocket dimension with its own rules and restrictions, hence why those going into the fractal from the laboratory would have their appearance changed to Inquest personnel.

Or what if whatever see saw has the capability of manipulating the mists in any form thus allowed her to enter the fractal unaffected by the rules and restrictions imposed onto those who enter the fractals?

I apologize if my post seems a bit random I’m just trying to maintain a neutral perception until more information is available.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The Fractals are all about exploring history, thus far, and altered versions of it. The Fall of Abaddon fractal wouldn’t have been as his fall truly was – similarly, the Thaumanova Reactor fractal isn’t a perfect representation of what happened at Thaumanova.

When introduced, the individual Fractals had nothing to do with the Living Story (The Lost Shores). The entrance was introduced because of such, but the things within were irrelevant. I fail to see why this fractal must have had to deal with Scarlet. Maybe it dealt not with Scarlet, but with something else. If it did.

I wasn’t referring to all the Fractals but rather the Thaumanova Reactor Fractal. This was shown to be connected to Scarlet in some manner so there is possibility that Scarlet would of been seen within Abaddon Fractal or somehow had some connection with the fractal in some form or manner.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

They maintained their stance of “Abaddon’s story is done” for roughly 3 years. I doubt they’d break it so easily.

Actually they could break it with relative ease. If there is enough demand for his return or if they themselves feel his return will make a good story then they will ignore their previous statement.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Not that I’d be against it… though that depends on what they do with it. But I seriously doubt it, and the constant “It’s going to be Abaddon!” even when it clearly isn’t is getting as annoying as the no-support “sylvari are dragon minions” claim.

I have to agree that these claims are annoying. I also doubt Abaddon will be brought back, however he makes a far more interesting villain than Scarlet. My hypothesis on the matter of Scarlet’s agenda is to act as the punishment to the community for Evon’s lost in the elections as I’ve read several posters claiming the developers were disappointed that Evon lost.

Tolmos.8395:

I’d prefer the female one. Whenever my character runs, all I hear in my head is the old 1980s Conan the Barbarian theme =D

Between the time when the Sylvari first awoke, and the rise of the Pact, there was an age undreamed of. And onto this, Tolmos, destined to wear the jeweled crown of Kryta upon a troubled brow.

Sorry I couldn’t resist.

Narcemus.1348:

My point is merely that the likelihood is extremely low. No one can say it will never happen because absolutes rarely exist, but the odds are very well against it.

I agree the likelihood is extremely low. I was just pointing out that the only time this claim will be absolute is when the Guild Wars franchise concludes as there will be no new canonically lore added or revisions made to the story at that point.

Nick.6972:

What about the Mursaat? For whatever reason that last Reactor boss reminded me them.

I seem to recall they claimed they wanted to do something with the Mursaat in Guild Wars 2.

Atlas.9704:

chronometria.3708:

The time to ignore us is over

Why not direct this to the people who make the game instead?

Because that would require an large amount of effort on their part, and there actually no guarantee their efforts would be successful. It is far easier simply to harass the PvE players that will come into WvW intending to complete the content, just like it easier for many of us PvE Players to argue with the PvP Players on the forums.

Now with that said I have to admit several of the PvP players have made excellent arguments. Their community is always the one ignored when it comes to new content. There is no rule that forbids them from killing a PvE player that wanders into their territory, although I won’t be surprise the situation escalates enough that such a rule is implemented. Also since the risks of pursuing the content has been clearly stated to the community as a whole those PvE players who are killed have no one to blame except for themselves.

Narcemus.1348:

Darkbattlemage.9612:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Your point?

My point is that until ArenaNet ends the Guild Wars franchise there is a possibility, however slight or unlikely to some, that ArenaNet may very well bring Abaddon back from the grave or any of his minions.

There’s also the chance, however slight, that the Elder Dragons and gods will ally together and fly around Tyria as great God Dragon Rider Overlords holding the Tyrians to their will. This is why the gods and the dragons line up so well.

@ Konig: I know they gods and dragons don’t line up. I added that line in order to reinforce the heavy dripping sarcasm.

I know you being sarcasm but you are correct, that is also possible. It’s also possible the Elder Dragons are indeed the gods or the Sylvari are the plant dragon minions as some have claimed.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Your point?

My point is that until ArenaNet ends the Guild Wars franchise there is a possibility, however slight or unlikely to some, that ArenaNet may very well bring Abaddon back from the grave or any of his minions.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Their point is “they don’t want to tie everything to Abaddon” not “they don’t want to have additional large arcs of stories” (which is what Scarlet is – just as Abaddon was, just as the Elder Dragons on a whole are).

In comparison the Elder Dragons and Scarlet seem relatively weak in comparison to Abaddon. From what I percieved the Elder Dragons were supposed to be these enigmatic that was beyond our comprehension, yet they appear to be no more than beasts satisfying their own hunger. Scarlet is presented in a way that suggests she is to be perceived as either Tyria’s own Joker or an mastermind, yet I find her to be quite incomptent.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Again, you see one thing and get something else out of it. What’s meant is that they aren’t going to bring him back and they’re not going connect new elements to Abaddon, but this isn’t to say they won’t expand into Abaddon’s past to explain that when it makes for good storytelling. Because in the end, that’s the writers’ proclaimed goal: good storytelling.

Taking into consideration the limitations inherited in an mmo concerning storytelling, it seems odd to expand Abaddon’s historical lore in the form of a dungeon. From my experience when a piece of historical lore is expanded upon in such a manner it is usually connected to the current story.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Darkbattlemage.9612:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Jeff Grubb explicitly stated that Abaddon (Not Abbadon) is dead and that his story is closed. John Stumme also stated that his story is closed, elaborating that they don’t want to dig the lore “deeper” by making everything tie into one point, but making it “wider” by having even more, and separate, stories in the same world.

We aren’t returning to Abaddon.

Yet everything in the living story is seemingly tied to Scarlet Briar, couldn’t they had multiple individuals trying to cause anarchy and misery?

As for Abaddon being dead. The Abaddon of our alternative reality is dead for certain, but is he the only Abaddon in existence? Perhaps that’s what Scarlet saw, alternative Abaddons who have become aware of one another and working together towards a merging of the timelines.

i think you missed the part of the post where it points out that the developers are saying “no more abaddon, we’re done with it. never again”.

seriously, just drop it. no multiverse theory to bring him back.

Actually I didn’t miss that part, however I do know developers of mmo’s say a lot of things that are often changed due to player demand or convenience. For example they said they didn’t want to tie it to one single point, yet we have Scarlet Briar being behind nearly everything in the Living Story. Another example is the fact that if Evon would of won we would be dealing with Abaddon again. To say one will never again deal with anything concerning a particular character includes their origins or past. The fact they were willing to give us content concerning Abaddon places some doubts on their claims that they are truly done with him.

Also for the record, I just used Abaddon as a convenient example of both the dangers and possibilities of incorporation alternative realities or time travel into a story. If I was Anet and willing to allow the possibility of alternative realities It could just as likely be that Scarlet saw the Mursaat, who are simply using her as their broadsword.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Jeff Grubb explicitly stated that Abaddon (Not Abbadon) is dead and that his story is closed. John Stumme also stated that his story is closed, elaborating that they don’t want to dig the lore “deeper” by making everything tie into one point, but making it “wider” by having even more, and separate, stories in the same world.

We aren’t returning to Abaddon.

Yet everything in the living story is seemingly tied to Scarlet Briar, couldn’t they had multiple individuals trying to cause anarchy and misery?

As for Abaddon being dead. The Abaddon of our alternative reality is dead for certain, but is he the only Abaddon in existence? Perhaps that’s what Scarlet saw, alternative Abaddons who have become aware of one another and working together towards a merging of the timelines.

smekras.8203:

haven’t the devs said that Zhaitan is really dead?

Regarding the undead, dead doesn’t always mean “won’t get back up again” but rather “It has stopped moving for the time being.” The term normally used to signify a undead will no longer rise from the grave is “destroyed” because it normally takes the destruction of either its complete physical form or an magical object to prevent its return. Since Zhaitan is an undead dragon to begin with they could get away with saying “Yeah Zhaitan’s dead” and still be able to bring him back. Look at how many times something was proclaimed “dead” in horror movies only to return in a sequel or later in the movie due to it not being 100% destroyed.

It could be the trick of the eyes, but it did seem closer when I revisited the area recently.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

That’s bloody brilliant. It adds character to her. I have not had the misfortune yet of being on her list. But my advise would probably be: "RUN!

And not stop running for at least a few years lol.

I was doing some reading on Glint and something struck me as odd. It said she predates the human gods and was turned into a branded by Kralkatorrik then cleansed by the forgotten. This has left me with a question. What if the Elder Dragons aren’t the only dragons that existed in Tyria’s history? What if the Elder Dragons are only the dragons who decided to abuse magic and become ‘gods’? If this is the case then perhaps there were many ‘jungle dragons’ at one time and the Sylvari could be their creation just as easily as being Mordremoth or Melandru’s creations.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Talonblaze.3175:

But yeah, I would like to see them a bit more involved. But this instance was a pretty short lived one to begin with and the difference between the Flame and the Frost and now is that they are representatives like most of the other races. So… them getting involved and a chance of dying wouldn’t go well with Kryta.
So, at least flavor wise that reason could satisfy some.

I’ll give you this for Rox, who was at the Jubilee in official capacity, but not for Braham (her +1) and certainly not for Thackeray, who is supposed to be fighting this exact fight (as Anise points out), and probably bring a few dozen Seraphs with him.

:)

Isn’t Rox eager to impress Rytlock for official recognition into the Stone Warband? How convenient that there just so happens to be a prime opportunity for her to raise the reputation of the Black Citadel, simply by lending a hand against Scarlet.

On a side note I actually liked them participating in the fight alongside me, even though Braham did prevent from me from stomping on the last two twisted minions.

There been hints already that other trees do exist. Also in the origins of the Pale Tree there was a cave that contained multiple seeds, the human only took and planted one of those seeds which was the pale tree. The better question is do they have a connection with the dream of dreams? It known they don’t have the teachings of the tablet to form a guideline around but it is shown that the Sylvari seem to be good nature in alignment.

If so perhaps each tree draws it own conclusions just like their Sylvari children. Perhaps the tree Scarlet originates from, if it not the Pale Tree, has gone insane witnessing the brutality of the other races or the Elder Dragons. Perhaps Scarlet couldn’t stand by and let what was done to her people go unpunished?

Plunder.8195:

Something I’ve been thinking about a bit is that maybe the druids have some role in this.
Maybe the sylvari are the minions of Mordemoth, but are “uncorrupted” by the druids.

The druids were active in the region, and apparently the some sylvari structures are resembling druid-structures. Another reason to think that the druids are involved is the elite skill of the sylvari. Why would they be able to summon a druid?

Anyway, just a thought to play around with ^.^

This could also point to a connection with Melandru and the other five human gods. Perhaps Melandru had a hand in their creation or gave them immunity to dragon corruption?

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

How did a thread about two extremely shallow and boring characters, evolve into a discussion regarding bigotry towards the sexes?

Because that seems to be the norm now of days. Twist everything one can into something political.

Edit: spoj beat me to it lol.

Abyssmal Shadow.2785:

The first point is kinda.. Eh.. It’s a really lame card to pull out, and given the dream is a collection of Sylvari memories and knowledge, it makes little sense that a memories would defy the laws of nature from which they are recorded. But I suppose you’re right to some degree in that sense because the dream does reveal the past, the potential future and the present.

Also, I think you’ve forgotten that the Nightmare isn’t something the Nightmare court Engineered, nor can they really manipulate it, just as (for the major part) the Pale Tree Sylvari can’t really do so either, which is why the Nightmare court do actually want to take claim over the Pale Tree.

Of course, keep in mind we know little about the nature of Mordremoth so we don’t actually have entirely full confirmation that it’s the one dealing with the Nightmare. As I did mention.

I only briefly played a Sylvari in beta, real life events caused me to unable to continue playing that character. I was under the impression the Nightmare Court had created the nightmare, but I do misunderstand things upon initial encounter. Another thing I took from that brief time was that while the Pale Tree doesn’t actively govern the dream she can manipulate some things, such as sending Caithe into the dream to guide the still to be born Sylvari into correcting the problem. So perhaps this is a result of her fear manifesting in the dream?

Abyssmal Shadow.2785:

I kinda felt the same way. I’ve seen most people say, “Oh, that’s a manifestation of the dragons” but the key thing is that if you look in the dream, you;

A) Have ethereal risen fighting ethereal non-risen. If there was to be manifestations of dragon minions, they could just as well have used those or any other variant.

B) Have Nightmare hounds. I honestly cannot see what association nightmare hounds have with the Branded, Zhaitan or Destroyers.

C) Have a forest theme dragon, which Caithe explicitly addresses with, “Destroy the NIGHTMARE before it takes root.” If the nightmare manifests strongest in the form of a Dragonesque variant.. That should account for something that’s being implied, and doesn’t seem to subtley either.

Combine that with all the other evidence that’s floating around, I’m pretty sure we have some kind of general idea of where this is suppose to lead to. But that said, we’ve yet to actually see much of anything else on that matter so I’m actually quiet curious to se how this goes.

What I think is the case is the nightmare dragon is kind of doing what the SoS are with Jormag. It’s probably twisting their ideals to suit its standards (assuming its a he). The other idea I thought of however was this possibility;

Perhaps it’s simply dividing the Sylvari by that corruption, because keep in mind, unless it’s special and what not, it’s ultimately not going to be able to do much to them beyond that, and the nightmare court themselves don’t seem any more intrested in the dragons than the normal Sylvari. Divide and conquer via the nightmare minions it can control.

Or it could be simply since it is a dream world, thus a world not govern by normal law of nature, the Dragon is a manifestation of a generic fear in all Sylvari. The Elder Dragons are these creatures that can literally destroy the world if they wanted to, this would definitely frighten any of the races. Or it could be the Nightmare Court engineered the nightmare to take the form of a dragon, believing that such a strong form will have a better chance of taking root and converting the non-nightmare sylvari to the nightmare court’s desires.

Archdruidess.5143:

What? I’m not a farmer and I never mentioned anything about farming anything fast enough. (Also not “he” but that’s beside the point.) In fact, given the angry farmers in here, I’m still thinking everyone and their mother took my post as a personal attack against farming.

Naturally the farmers will consider it a personal attack. This is because if changes were implemented to make the content acceptable to everyone meaning Anet took some of the suggestions posted in this and many similar threads then their way of playing the game is threatened. That why you see a lot of people throwing the “What makes your time worth more than mine?” Argument as well as the “Entitlement” argument back and forth. Yet do you see either side actually giving creditable evidence to support their claims? Some might say yes but in reality the answer is no because each side’s evidence can be turn upon them or are built upon false belief. The best example of these false belief arguments is the “I own this dome” argument. Anet technically owns the domes, which means they can deny access if they feel portions of the player base are becoming too hostile.

Let me make my point one more time: I believe ANet had a certain mechanic in mind when they made this event and I firmly believe that friendly res’ing was a part of their design. They have always encouraged the community to help each other – this is something that set GW2 above other MMOs in my eyes. But the gauntlet farming changed the way the event goes (this is not the players’ fault, mind you – it just happened,) there are some awkward things that make it lack flow, and the penalty is doubled both in silver and more importantly time if people don’t help/there’s no one around to help, and, as you can see by some posts in this thread, there are rude individuals who get a serious case of the nasties when you go near “their” dome.

Actually you half right and half wrong with in this belief. The blame doesn’t rest solely on Anet or the players. Both parties in this case are guilty of causing this problem. Anet could of implemented the event better, that is true, but the ‘farmers’ could of simply ignored the people complaining about the gauntlet and continue farming. But they chose to try and ‘bully’ those who seek to honestly help Anet improve the game into silence because they feel threatened by these threads. Anet won’t automatically change something because a few people say something wrong. They will investigate into the matter and see if there any base to the claim, as with any company, before they make a decision.

Farmers – I do not expect you to res me. I have been very courteous to farmers when I see them, generally leaving them alone or asking to make sure that’s what they’re doing (if I see someone actually die to DED). I do not expect you to stop farming. I do not think my time is more important than yours.

Sadly they simply don’t care if you courteous or not. The way many of the ‘farmers’ in this thread presented themselves suggests they find their time more important than anyone else, which demonstrates how the “entitlement” argument can easily turn on the one using it.

But I do think my time IS important. It’s important to me… and to waste it running back up to the dome every time is frustrating. To waste it looking for an overflow where there is a dome that has no farmers is frustrating. (They all seem to be someone’s farming dome lately.) And to you who don’t agree and think I’m lazy – you live my life and see how your gaming priorities change when you’re me – I don’t call you lazy for not helping to res and calling res’ing a time waster, don’t call me lazy because I feel a run back and overflow search is pointless and a time waster.

The problem isn’t about who time is important who time isn’t. The problem is that some players feel they can get away with being rude to other players. I mean if time was the issue would any of the farmers who have been replying to this thread really waste their time sending a reply back to the person asking for rez? How hard is it to make a separate chat for one’s friends/guild that ignores say and map chat? This suggest the farmer’s aren’t grumbling because their ‘time’ was wasted but rather something else is the root of their grumblings.

I do not – and let me repeat this – I do not expect the players to fix this. I know some of this thread got hijacked into a farmers vs. others fight, but in my opinion, this is something only ANet can reroute. That was my point – To show something I found frustrating, to explain why, and to offer a suggestion to fix it. I hope this thread and the arguing within can help show some of the problems this is causing.

The better question is can this be fixed now? Is it too late? Will the fix cause more problems?

Havoc.4680:

Keil

Told you guys you should have voted for Evon, you brought this on yourselves.

Or it could be even Evon Gnashblade. I mean think about it he a Ash Legion Charr sent by his legion to establish a foothold within Lion’s Arch. He didn’t seem to be interested in acquiring a seat on the council until cutthroat politics. He was highly aggressive in the campaign spending a large amount of gold in an attempt to secure votes, which he confirms if you talk to him now in lion’s arch, so maybe he paid the Aetherblades to assassinate the council to open available seats. In his short story he has been shown able to speak quickly when required. Perhaps the Black Lion Trading Company has failed in its original goals and now he seeks to create threats that will allow it to rise as an “heroic” company beloved by all without resorting to Gnashfang’s original tactics.

Or the tale could take an more familiar twist. Perhaps Scarlet is a resident of the area that was the Great Collapse. Perhaps she feels that the Queen caused the accident or was led to believe it by the Ministry. Perhaps she then reformed the Crimson Skulls but found them ill suited for the task at hand. She went to the Inquest who saw an opportunity. If they aided her she would aid them by being a unwitting test subject. The Aetherblades were formed and perhaps assimilated the White Mantle Cult into its fold, after offering Mursaat technology to the Inquest. The Charr members could be actually from the Flame Legion as the Flame Legion was convinced to ally with the Dredge. Perhaps it the same thought process the Flame Legion plays along with the plan until the queen is dead then they try to assume dominance.