Guild Wars 2

runeblade.7514:

It is simple, just join with whatever gear you want in any group. You don’t need to wear zerk gear at all even if they ask for it.

I joined many “ZERK ONLY” groups, wearing nothing but soldier gear.100% of the time, The run goes fine.

That is incredibly rude. You expect others to respect the way you want to play but have no respect for other gamers or the way they want to play. So instead of joining a casual group you join a zerker only group without zerker and not only slow down their run but make it harder for them because one person not in zerker can cause a zerker player to be hit more often.

Seera.5916:

Algreg.3629:

Zev.3407:

anabasis.7346:

^^ Exactly. There’s many people in this thread that want to play how they want while not wanting zerkers to play how they want. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Not only they won’t accomplish anything because they are basically fighting human nature, which is futile, but they are making matters worse by revealing their true exclusive nature towards zerker players.

There is hypocricy both ways yes

but mainly this issue is when one side joins a group of the other side and tries to force that group to play their style, but verbal, or physical(kicking) ways.

both sides of the coin are guilty

just dont try to force or expect people to play the way you play, because everyone is different. Your way is not the best or right way, its just your way.

not really both ways. I rarely see zerker – or let´s be honest, good players who know how the game works – start threads complaining about “play how you want” LFMs.

They don’t come onto the forums. But they do go into the groups in game and start demanding players follow the meta.

This is one of those things I hear about all the time but have literally never witnessed once.

Sariel V.7024:

Aberrant.6749:

How other people want to play shouldn’t concern you. If that’s how they enjoy playing the game then who are you to tell them they are wrong (as long as they aren’t harassing other players). There is nothing wrong with wanting a good group

(yours edited for brevity/clarity)

How other people want to play shouldn’t concern you. Unless you’re being condescending and exclusive. Then you can be concerned with how other people want to play all you want. Leave that to the professionals. Remember, if they’re top dog, their kitten doesn’t stink; you do!

I swear, I just got done pointing out this hypocrisy over on reddit.

Hypocrisy is non-zerker players expecting zerker players to accept non-zerker players them even though they themselves refuse to accept the zerker players and meta.

This entire thread is a testament to the selfish nature of people. They want to be allowed to play how they want but they don’t want other people who want to play differently than them to be able to play how they want.

One guy in this thread specifically said he joined speedclear LFGs just to block zerker players. That is basically harassment and LFG abuse.

MatiDiez.1537:

I mean, usually MMORPG games have all sorts of stuff you can get when reaching max level. Like start crafting cool gear, get mounts, some vanity, etc. Is this the case? Or playing PvP will allways be the same despite my PVE path.

Structured PvP in this game is set up in a way so that everybody is on equal terms as far as stats goes. This allows things to be based around skill and builds rather than “I spend 23 hours a day in this game so my gear is superior to yours and you have no chance.”

You can unlock better looking gear by running dungeons, etc. And dungeons unlock at certain levels. But if you’re just going to be PvPing and not WvWing or PvEing then there really isn’t a need to level.

I can’t quit my living story episode. It has been like this for months and it is annoying. I restarted it to do an achievement and when I quit the episode it goes away and comes right back immediately.

Because it is fun, I also play sPvP every once in a while but that uis an unbalanced craphole 99% of the time.

Dungeons are fun. Beating your best times on a dungeon run is fun. Amassing wealth is fun. Playing with friends is fun.

Fractals are fun.

Opinions are opinions are opinions.

I love how nobody is acknowledging the complaint that Trahearne is shoehorned into the story at level 50. He literally comes out of nowhere and is all of a sudden the leader. You don’t meet him until Claw Island and by then the fight against Zhaitan is already in full swing.

Todd.8162:

Sorin.4310:

Does offhand weapon skills not just use the same formula?

Damage = Weapon strength * Power * Skill coefficient / Armor

Except weapon strength would be from the offhand weapon and not the mainhand weapon.

This is what I’m asking. I don’t believe the off-hand weapon strength is used in the damage calculations. The off-hand weapon adds to power but not to weapon strength.

Is this correct?

Take off your main hand weapon. Use a skill from your offhand. Did you do damage? Yes? There you go.

Seera.5916:

Marthkus.4615:

Something a lot of us have to come to terms with is that we cannot control other players. We can’t control what they put in their lfg. We can’t control who joins our group. We can’t control who other people kick. We can’t control what other people say. We can’t control how other people play.

Does that mean LFG should be a random kitten-fest? Probably not. There can be order without control as long as mutual benefit comes about from the order. Do the zerker/meta/exp 8K+ AP groups benefit everyone else? No, all they do is inflate TP and gem price for everyone else. Do people who troll Zerker queue benefit everyone else? No, all we get there is spiteful meta-zerks trolling anyone welcomed groups and tons of other nonsense.

I don’t have a good answer to that dilemma. I can share some fun facts:
1. People can ping gear they don’t own.
2. Living story gave lots of AP while things like WvW or pure dungeon running give far less.
3. Many people have alt accounts that they dungeon on to get more dailies that will have less AP than their main one.
4. People can totally tell if you aren’t carrying your dps in a speedrun. Things can melt very fast.

Stop talking like those who play the meta and wish to speed run are bad for the game. They aren’t. They don’t inflate the TP. They aren’t that huge in numbers. If they were, don’t you think ANet would have not disbanded their dungeon team? Or reformed it? You do realize that of the aspects of this game, that dungeons receive the smallest amount of attention? That all they get are bug fixes. That would not be the case if they were large enough to affect TP prices and gem/gold ratios.

Go fuss at the players who sit in LA or wherever all day and play the Trading Post. Those are the ones who have the most control over TP prices. Not the dungeon speed run crowd. Go fuss at the players who don’t spend money on the game yet own the gem store for the high gold/gem ratios. They’re likely in Silverwastes. Not dungeons.

And don’t forget the spiteful casuals who troll the speed run groups. Stop acting like only the speed run players engage in trolling behavior.

And none of us can say which group of trolls is larger or if one is even larger than the other. So the only fair thing to say is for every one casual troll, there’s a zerk troll and for every zerk troll, there’s a casual troll. And both the zerk troll and the casual troll equally make the problem worse. They split the two groups apart even further than they naturally are.

He himself is a casual troll as you put it. He has already admitted to joining speedrun LFG searches just to block the people in the party. If he does this early enough and leaves the party he can actually disband the party and cause the LFG to go away. If I were anet I would have already suspended him for LFG abuse and harassment.

Aenesthesia.1697:

ionix.9054:

Aenesthesia.1697:

Marthkus.4615:

Players I run into:
1. High deeps players who don’t die and could solo the dungeon.
2. High deeps players who don’t die but can’t solo the dungeon.
3. High deeps players who die all the time unless everyone is playing max deeps.
4. Mid deeps players who don’t die and could solo the dungeon.
5. Mid deeps players who don’t die but can’t solo dungeon.
6. Mid deeps players who die all the time unless the boss dies fast.
7. Low deeps players who don’t die and could solo the dungeon.
8. Low deeps players who don’t die and couldn’t solo the dungeon.
9. Low deeps player who die all the time and are basically a drain to the party.

Meta bullies are almost exclusively #3. They are noobs, but pretend they aren’t cause they have zerker gear. 1s and 2s are the kind of people willing to carry 6s, 8s, and 9s. I met someone who normally solos arah but was puging because that is more of a challenge. He was a bit elitist and meta, but he was still fun to play with because he wasn’t shouting at people.

More and more people are falling into the #1 category which makes puging very pleasant.

My war is full Zoja’s, but I don’t like the zerker meta, so I use her to climb fractals. Easy content like dungeons, I’ll bring my 4s, (odd thing to censor?) 5s, and 8s.

That is so unfair.

A meta ele, for example, HAS to be number 3. Eles are sitting ducks while channeling their devastating attacks, which they have to cast while still having 25 stacks of might. If the boss isnt dead by the end of the cast, chances are it already killed the other ele, or you. You can play it safe, time your casts and be conservative, but then you wont do top damage and most likely the boss will be dead by the time you even olace vulnerability on him

I don’t agree with that 100%. Yes ellys can’t soak damage. If the group is stacking and others aren’t providing blinds, it’s up to you to use Sandstorm or Arcane Shield to get off a Meteor Shower; you must be self sustaining. This means you have to swap out Arcane Blast.

Self sustaining? For solo, of course. Being self sustaining in a group beats te purpose of being in a group.

But you expect everybody else to protect you? If others in the group don’t have blinds or already used theirs then you use yours. It is common place for an ele to to throw up sandstorm as a blind. It is pretty much meta in certain fractals.

Silvercyclone.1462:

I’m at the spot right now where all i need to finish my legendary is CoE runs but since I don’t use zerker nor do i feel comfortable using it it almost impossible to get a run. A week ago i was actually dropped from 10 parties in a row because i don’t have zerker or I wasn’t experiences. Now alot of ppl will tell me just to join a guild but lots of guilds do not want me since I cant play at a time when they do guild missions.

Literally pop open your LFG, navigate to the CoE section and type in “CoE exp 1-3 casual run”. Wait for party to fill and have fun.

This is the same non-issue we have with people who whine about 100% rep guilds. Don’t like them? Don’t join them. It is so simple it hurts that people make it an issue.

Still waiting for the Trahearne version of this. Because despite all of the Trahearne fanboys in here, he is a complete credit stealing tool.

If Trahearne wasn’t randomly shoehorned into the story at level 50 and then a few story quests later was the leader it might not be so annoying. As it stands he comes out of nowhere as the mentor we’ve been with for 20 levels dies and then boom “Whats up, yeah I’ll be the leader of this pact.” “What? no I’m a Scholar, I’ll make sure to pass along your military suggestions as my own.”

Marthkus.4615:

Something a lot of us have to come to terms with is that we cannot control other players. We can’t control what they put in their lfg. We can’t control who joins our group. We can’t control who other people kick. We can’t control what other people say. We can’t control how other people play.

Does that mean LFG should be a random kitten-fest? Probably not. There can be order without control as long as mutual benefit comes about from the order. Do the zerker/meta/exp 8K+ AP groups benefit everyone else? No, all they do is inflate TP and gem price for everyone else. Do people who troll Zerker queue benefit everyone else? No, all we get there is spiteful meta-zerks trolling anyone welcomed groups and tons of other nonsense.

I don’t have a good answer to that dilemma. I can share some fun facts:
1. People can ping gear they don’t own.
2. Living story gave lots of AP while things like WvW or pure dungeon running give far less.
3. Many people have alt accounts that they dungeon on to get more dailies that will have less AP than their main one.
4. People can totally tell if you aren’t carrying your dps in a speedrun. Things can melt very fast.

1. While you can ping gear you don’t own, unless you are aware of the chat code system its hard to get it to ping with runes/sigils. (not impossible though)
2. Agreed, AP is a terrible indicator of skill. I run meta zerker and I would never use AP as an indicator.
3. Once again, agreed. I also have an alt account with only like 3k AP.
4. And yes, It is frustrating to see somebody not pulling any DPS because they are running staff of a Guardian for example. I understand some people want to play how they want but you’re not helping and you’re actually ruining the experience of 4 other players. People SHOULD play how they want… with like-minded players. If you know your play style and somebody elses don’t work together why would either of you want to play together? It just causes non-issues to become issues.

Trahearne is Kormir 2.0. A credit stealing fool who doesn’t do anything and lets you do all the heavy lifting. He was shoehorned into the story at level 50. Just comes out of nowhere and boom instant Marshal of the Pact. Absolutely ridiculous.

Tigaseye.2047:

Harper.4173:

Tigaseye.2047:

Anet just need to finally wake up and add a random queue system.

It’s 2015, for goodness sake…

Then, people will get what they get and if they don’t like that, they can make/join guilds with likeminded people and run their pedantic, uptight hearts out with them.

Yes so both groups can now get paired together randomly and then can kick and harass themselves endlessly until one group leaves and the other has the party and the dungeon.
Then people will get what they get and when it isn’t what they wanted they’ll start verbally abusing each other just like people do ALL THE TIME in ANY ENVIRONMENT.

If people weren’t lazy and made their own groups we wouldn’t have this issue now. The fact that we do have it proves that a LOT of people are incapable of making their own groups with similarly minded people.

Taking choice away from players is NEVER a good thing.

You and I are, clearly, never going to agree on this, Harper.

The whole idea is that, if you had any very specific/rigid requirements, you wouldn’t use the queuing system.

Or, if you did, you would just have to relax your requirements (at least temporarily).

That would actually be good for everyone involved; especially the people with the too-rigid requirements.

People need to realise that they cant and shouldn’t try to control everything around them.

Learn to enjoy the chaos, or run with your own guild.

Plus, if you had any kind of understanding of human psychology, you would realise that it isn’t, necessarily, laziness to not want to make your own groups; especially as a new player.

…and that, once people feel excluded and over-pressurised, that feeling tends to endure, even long after they are past the “noob” stage.

That isn’t good for the future of the game.

But you’re the one trying to control everything around you, you’re the one trying to force zerker meta players to run with non-meta players who are going to ruin their experience. Maybe you should look in a mirror when saying you should let people play how they want.

Behellagh.1468:

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

Start your own group, put the tagline “anyone welcome” the only people who will now join your group are those who genuinely do not care, because anyone who does care will see that tag and think “oh, i won’t join that group, probably some beginners/newbs in that group”.

It’s not “elitism” it’s the fact that most people playing this game have run these dungeons over and over again for hundreds of days, they’re sick to death of them, but they’re a good form of income, so naturally they just want to get them over and done with as quick as they possibly can.

Yet have have gotten, in the past before the change, two zerkers who joined and then booted me and anyone else who at joined before them with that exact comment in my LFG. Now you need three of course but that doesn’t preclude them from dropping out during the first boss leaving the rest of the team high and dry.

I could say the same about kitten non-zerkers who join speedclear parties to troll. There are kittens everywhere, it doesn’t change the solution.

Tigaseye.2047:

Harper.4173:

Your elitist is a caricatured portrait of “The farmer”. The farmer is a part of the hardcore – as you said.
Highly efficient he enjoys earning rewards to buy new skins with and does everything in his power to get as much loot as possible.
Seeks out other players who want the same thing and excludes players that don’t since he doesn’t have time to mess around and since wasting time ruins his game experience.
Kicks certain classes because experience has shown they’re most of the times a liability (BB rangers) and kicks non-zerkers because he’s there for the fast farm not to role play or watch dungeon cutscenes.
Kicks you for being low AP because it’s not a teaching run and higher AP has a better chance of finding an experienced player. Not full proof but better.

This is exactly the type of player that Anet shouldn’t cater to.

Not only do they ruin the game for any other type of player that, probably normally accidentally, crosses their path; but they also make Anet next-to-no money, as they “earn” gold too fast to to ever need to buy gems.

Making Anet no money directly might be OK, if they made the other players they interacted with happier and more likely to stick with the game (and open their wallets); but when, in actual fact, the reverse is true…

So, thinking like a business person here, this is the type of player I would refuse to support, if I were them.

So you can play how you want but zerkers can’t? This is the most ridiculous thing I’ve read on here in weeks and I read the earlier argument in here that not inviting certain classes is the same thing as racism.

Marthkus.4615:

Ashen.2907:

Marthkus.4615:

It should be obvious that I join/block/leave to assure I interact as little as possible with those people.

You purposefully interfere with others’ attempts to form their groups, something that impacts you not at all since they are not actively messaging you to join.

You are actively choosing to interact with them (joining their groups) in order to avoid interacting with them despite the fact that they are actively attempting to avoid interacting with you (by advertising the nature of the group so that you know to not join).

I do not wish to ever interact them. In any aspect of the game. In any group. ever. Gear pings, no x class, “no scrubs”, and other such nonsense come from people I wish to not interact with. That sort of “fun” does not mark one a pleasant person.

I’d say that that is a blatant abuse of the lfg system. I’d be careful about advertising my rule breaking activities on the official forums if I were you. It could also be seen as harassment and in my opinion is worse than anything to do with refusing to run with non-zerkers.

D/D is a terrible weapon set for dungeons. There are tons of players in this game who will run dungeons with any build/gear set up. Join their parties and don’t join the zerker parties. As usual this is a non-issue being turned into an issue because people want to be able to play how they want but they also want to punish other people for doing so.

Because bad players hate dodging and blame the fact that good players know how to read animations and dodge when needed on the DPS zerker meta which some players hate for some reason.

So basically, you have some players who enjoy zerker meta. They play that way and mind their own business playing with like minded players. Then you have “play how you want” players who harass zerker players when they don’t want non-zerker in their party instead of just forming their own parties. (the irony of play how you want players telling zerkers how to play)

This leads to the selfish cries of people trying to get zerker nerfed and the first step to that was to nerf their survivability through dodging.

The best reason they are avoiding underwater combat is because they don’t want to balance it. Rather than making it so that 1 or 2 classes don’t dominate underwater they removed an entire PvP map. It is just sad. Underwater combat had great potential but they didn’t want to put the work in.

Considering he clarified what he meant in a reddit post and basically verified that he didn’t mean that they disapprove of all DPS groups I’m going to go out on a limb and say don’t expect anything different.

Arkblue.6129:

Harper.4173:

Arkblue.6129:

Harper.4173:

Arkblue.6129:

From Software developed Dark Souls 1 and 2.
Dark Souls had better weapon collision and hitboxes than Dark Souls 2.
Either the company decided to make a worse product out of spite, or they simply decide to not waste their resources on the fixing of that issues.
Which is what I think Anet did with GW2 and AoE. They weren’t ignorant of that, they said “you know what? It’s not worth our efforts”.
Rounding up mobs for clearing them with AoE is one thing, always stacking because of a 600 range on EVERY party buffs is another thing.
Currently, the game rewards stacking, but also punishes everything else. If you think they purposefully did that, then I don’t know what to say.

I’m saying that regardless of what you might think the developers were aware of what was going to happen and considered that state of the game desirable since they did not bother to change it.
So I don’t see a lot of validity in arguments that go " The devs wanted this or that" or “the devs never intended this or that”.

The devs knew exactly what was happening every step of the way. The fact that we’re here today proves all those “the devs didn’t want or didn’t know” arguments wrong.

They might say “oh we never wanted or intended for this or that” in fancy PR talks but anyone with a bit of reason can see what I’m trying to say here.

So you’re saying that, IDK, assassin’s creed bugs were intended by Ubisoft instead of the result of poor attention on their part?

There is a difference. A bug is a bug.

An AI behavior that players have been using for advantage for years in your old game that you do not bother to correct in your new game – you can’t call that an oversight.

A bug can be overlooked – you can know it’s not there.

Speed clears, stacking, skipping – all these things have been with the franchise since GW1. The fact that we have them in GW2 is not evidence of oversight – they knew these things existed.

Most devs know of cheap mechanics, they don’t always fix it.
Let put this under another perspective.
Remember PVE Thug life guy? he might have exagerated, but if you were to make a promo video for gw2, would you put there gameplay footage with dungeons and stackings? Because I wouldn’t.

Yes I would, because its a perfectly valid method of pulling things together.

Cyninja.2954:

Arkblue.6129:

Cyninja.2954:

Arkblue.6129:

Dinks.2478:

Arkblue.6129:

Dinks.2478:

Anybody that has ever looked at one of the meta builds should know right away that it isn’t about raw damage, it is about bringing the most to the party while still doing a lot of damage.

There is nothing wrong in caring only about damage, but still, you are only caring about damage. It’s ok, it’s the gw2 trademark, but it’s also a quite disappointing experience.

I’ve already pointed out that it isn’t about raw damage. To deny reality and live in your own world where you’re right is childish and wrong.

A grand example is Phalanx Strength warriors. Prior to June 23rd they did way less damage than pure DPS warriors. But they were still preferred because they were better for the party as a whole. Instead of more selfish direct damage utilities they’d bring banners, they’d bring might, they’d bring vulnerability.

It isn’t about raw damage it is about the party.

It’s about party damage. You aren’t talking about weakness, blinds, stuns, or controls.
They are not needed.
You aren’t talking about regeneration, aegis, or stability.
They are not needed (except for skips, maybe).

You are talking about:
Party Damage.
PS= party damage.
DPS =personal damage.

currently it’s the least common multiplier of the game.

And I’m ok with them not being needed, I’m less ok with them not having a place in PvE because things dies before they are useful. i.e. before stamina is drained, healing skills are on cd, and personal blocks have been used.

Do you even understand what you suggest?

Increasing the length and/or lethality of combat in GW2 to the point that all the support skills are required (and no, relfects are not taken along only for damage, least not in high level fractals. stop arguing from noob dungeons that are 3 year old content) and your personal skills are required to survive an encounter, would up the demand for very select classes by a LOT.

Certain classes would not get taken a long at all any more.

Your right, none of the defensive skills are needed. Now please go run a fractal 50 without a guardian providing aegis, without an elementalist/thief providing aoe blind, without reflects from mesmer or guardians.

Compare that to a group bringing all those things. Then come and tell me none of those are very useful. True, they aren’t required in dungeons or most open world content, because that content is way outdated. They aren’t required as in the run that takes 45 minutes with them, turns into 1.5-2 hours without them.

high level fractals only prolong the inevitable because most people are new to them, but since the core mechanics are the same as in dungeons, even there people will reach the point where they can just use some utility skills and dive in full zerker, simply because it’s the enemy AI that doesn’t require that kind of approach.

Increasing lethality is not the way go. Increasing complexity is the way to go.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fractals_of_the_Mists

- added in November 16th, 2012
- Fractured update in November 26th 2013

Fractals have been almost as long in the game as dungeons. They are certainly not new content.

Yes, fractals even at 50 are run in full zerker gear (at least I do on my guardian/mesmer). Especially due to that all the defensive skills are even more important. A solid soft trinity and classes that provide proper utility and group skills are a huge boon to every ones nerves and sanity.

I agree on the complexity part. It’s almost like how most enemys and bosses in fractals get new skills every 10 levels (that’s new skills, not only agony)?

I really hope anet makes some of the new content on par with fractal 50 difficulty (or even harder since this is on farm for people) but my guess is the resonance in the majority of players would be to ignore those aspects of pve or start complaining over the high difficulty.

No, they need to stop trying to cater to both types of players with the same content. You can’t have content that appeals to players that like high difficulty content and players that like casual content at the same time. They need to introduce hard mode. So that less organized or just less hardcore players can enjoy the casual modes and then hardcore or just more organized groups can do the hard modes and get better rewards for their effort.

Arkblue.6129:

It’s about party damage. You aren’t talking about weakness, blinds, stuns, or controls.
They are not needed.
You aren’t talking about regeneration, aegis, or stability.

Things that bring

Blinds: Eles, Necros, Thieves, Guardians, I’m sure there are others I am missing.

Stuns: Thieves and Eles, but not really usefull in most cases aside from knocking off defiance stacks.

Weakness: not really useful but in cases where it is deemed important I always swap my food to skale venom.

Controls: What are you referring to specifically? A lot of classes have knockbacks, pulls, immobilizes, freezes, etc. I’d say that stun belongs under here to begin with. It is all forms of CC, hard and soft CC to be precise. Hard CC being anything that causes defiance and a soft CC being stuff like chill and immobilize. I’d also say that a huge part of current meta (until break bar) is controlling your hard CC to avoid taking off too many stacks and screwing up the freeze.

Regeneration: Guardians, Eles, probably other stuff. Between Guardians passive regen and Eles throwing up random water fields in emergencies when they are in water for Ice Bow there is usually plenty to go around.

Aegis: Obviously very few classes have this in general, but as I main a Guardian I can 100% say with certainty that I use aegis often enough.

Stability: This is very important in a lot of encounters, otherwise our lovely stack can be knocked all around.

PS is sacrificing damage for party buffs. Whether or not those buffs increase the party damage overall is irrelevant to this conversation. Guardians sacrifice things like bane signet for stability or condi removal all the time. I personally change my build out 3 or 4 times in most dungeons. Going from condi removal to melee to ranged builds depending on the fight. Most META builds have alternatives like that for certain areas where certain things are needed. There is a reason that Guardian META in fractals often uses a hammer, the ring and the near constant protection/regen is amazing for high level fractals.

They could have re-released previous content and nobody would have minded. Like they could do a Wintersday and July thing, which would both give people something to do and give people who missed it a chance at the star of gratitude. They could also do a bunch of other stuff like SAB, Halloween, take the daily activities off their rotation so we can at least do the ones we enjoy every day, re-release dragon ball, lots of filler content to pick from. But instead we’ve gone over half a year without a single piece of content. Not encouraging for newer players coming in for the expansion when they notice there is no content coming out at all.

Arkblue.6129:

Dinks.2478:

Anybody that has ever looked at one of the meta builds should know right away that it isn’t about raw damage, it is about bringing the most to the party while still doing a lot of damage.

There is nothing wrong in caring only about damage, but still, you are only caring about damage. It’s ok, it’s the gw2 trademark, but it’s also a quite disappointing experience.

I’ve already pointed out that it isn’t about raw damage. To deny reality and live in your own world where you’re right is childish and wrong.

A grand example is Phalanx Strength warriors. Prior to June 23rd they did way less damage than pure DPS warriors. But they were still preferred because they were better for the party as a whole. Instead of more selfish direct damage utilities they’d bring banners, they’d bring might, they’d bring vulnerability.

It isn’t about raw damage it is about the party.

Warriors don’t bring hammers because they bring greatswords for PS. They apply massive amounts of might and vulnerability. Weakness isn’t all that good so its a low priority but classes might bring it. This is why Power Necro isn’t a huge meta class. They hit really hard but they don’t/didn’t bring too much to the group outside of raw damage.

An example of how important a PS warrior is pre-23rd patch. Warrior would still bring PS over pure DPS even though they hit a lot weaker. Because its a party buff that is more important than pure damage. Anybody that has ever looked at one of the meta builds should know right away that it isn’t about raw damage, it is about bringing the most to the party while still doing a lot of damage.

Arkblue.6129:

Harper.4173:

It’s the players – not necessarily the encounter that push this.

No, it’s the encounter.
The game was never built around a required healer/tank, but the devs intended to built it around a required soft trinity were at least a player was supposed to stand there dodging/mitigating/blocking/kiting the damage. Stacking was never meant to be META. In that scenario regenerations and heals would have proven more useful because it would have been harder to avoid all damage, but still they wouldn’t be needed.
TL;DR= the encounters are designed around not needing dedicated tanks, healers, or anything but dps weapons.

I feel like you’ve never done a dungeon or something. There is a soft trinity. Every single META build accounts for various forms of control and support. Reflects, blinds, vulnerability, weakness, blocks, dodges, buffs, etc. Every single build accounts for this.

Stacking is a thing that is used in literally every single game since the beginning of time. Without stacking we’d all look like we were chickens with our heads cut off running in circles.

Lhos.1643:

I don’t particularly care if any kind of a trinity ever appears in GW2, but if dungeon fights could require more organization than “stand in a heap and press 1”, that’d be greeeeeeat.

This not a thing that exists. This argument is constantly thrown out and it is hilarious wrong. Every MMO since the beginning of MMO’s has used stacking and line of sight to get enemies to cluster up. That just makes AoE and damage more effective. If you’re just spamming 1 in a corner you’re just as useless to your team as a clerics guardian using a staff.

There are already tons of games where you have the holy trinity, go play one of them. This games system is fine. If you want to be tanky or a healer you can do that. You won’t be welcome in most parties but thats a personal problem.

I don’t think causing carpal tunnel is a joke. But if you insist on dismissing anets love affair with clicking then keep it to yourself.

NikeEU.7690:

I love everyone echoing comments like “its an L2P issue we dont have enough experience yet.”

No. Just no.

As it stands today without Shiro or Power traits the revenent is a low DPS class. Even in full berserker with scholar runes the damage is abysmal. None of the weapons have high damage coefficients. None of the weapons are able to stack significant conditions to support a full condi build. The class cannot do direct damage yet and cannot even do condi damage.

It did not take me 6 months to figure that out. I looked at the traits. I looked at the weapon skill coefficients and cast times. That’s all you need to know to figure out if something has good damage.

I would say that I have faith things will improve when the Power line, 1hs and shiro legend come out, but being that a revenant is currently doing like 5k DPS fully buffed they would need those things to increase their DPS by 300% to consider them baseline viable.

5k DPS? You must be the most amazing Revenant in the world because I was in full Zerker gear and it took me like 10 minutes to kill a veteran. I tried every weapon, I tried every legendary, I tried various traits, I tried all sorts of stuff. There is simply nothing to the Revenant to support doing damage.

Will one trait line and a different stance actually help it? I doubt it. You’re still stuck with a useless legendary stance, whatever utilities they decide to attach to that stance, and based on current standards subpar weapons.

Weak and limited

Weak because the damage output has to be anet trolling us.

Limited because the traits are pretty much useless and the lack of utility diversity/weapon swap means you have to run the same exact utilities as everybody else.

It has all sorts of weaknesses. The main one being that it’s utilities are tied to the legendary stances so you are forced to run what they tell you to run.

Healing in dungeons is like being a bench warmer. When you get to the end the team won and you can be excited to have been there, but you still didn’t contribute and you wasted everybodies time.

Cambeleg.7632:

Just one point: the Legendary (and trait line) related with DPS didn’t release yet. I still don’t get why all this ‘low DPS’ question when this is a fact. We have Mallyx, Jalis and Ventari. Still we need to see the last one (Shiro?) for having all them, and to value prolly the class.

One DPS legendary? Yeah this class has already failed.

No, its not a beta test. Its on live servers. And if it were anything but live gameplay at this level I wouldn’t even consider it passed alpha. If this is beta worthy Revenant then the class is in serious trouble.

Xiahou Mao.9701:

ScribeTheMad.7614:

But the OP was saying guild chat should be open for him/her to use, and if it were open for him/her to use it would be open for the rest of his/her guild as well and thus guild chat would not in fact be empty.

He’s right, sharing what we see could make for a lot of good word of mouth for the class (with the opposite also true to be fair)

Revenants can’t represent guilds, because then they’d be able to place items in guild banks, which would circumvent their current “No Trading Post/Mail” restrictions to keep them from moving items from their soon-to-be-deleted inventories into the wide game world beyond.

It’s something they might work on in the future, but right now that’s why you can’t represent a guild.

lol thats an absolutely terrible excuse. no rewards, no progression, no guild. Its like every reason for playing the game is removed.

FrostSpectre.4198:

Logged in to GW2 just few moments ago, and noticed that the weekend testing were going on.

Upon examining the character selection, 1 extra character slot is available, not just the beta slot.

Did ANet change their decision about limiting free character slot to more expensive versions of HoT?

They gave anybody who pre-purchased and already owned the game an extra slot on top of the deluxe/ultimate one.

Oberon Vex.1389:

Kitsune.1902:

Oberon Vex.1389:

Ventari feedback

Ventari’s base amounts are too high. In full zerker gear, the tablet passing through you heals for 800, meaning a net gain of 400 health/second without building any healing power. If you do go for healing power, you get a net gain of 550 hp/s, and this isn’t including any ‘on-heal’ effects from runes/traits. This is too much healing to the group/second without building for a support role. I suggest lowering the base amount and perhaps upping the healing power ratio to compensate so that it is still a decent group utility skill — if you build for support. Another possible fix would be to leave the current effect but increase the cd on the Ventari heal to 5-8s which would put it more inline with the passive healing abilities of other classes and cut down on the next problem:

adept trait blinding truths. every time you move your tablet (every 2s) 5 enemies are blinded for 5s. leading to a huge amount of damage mitigation.This trait either needs an internal cooldown (suggested at 5-10s ICD) or to be moved to the grandmaster slot.

About 5000 / 10 seconds, 10,000 / 20 seconds. I don’t know if that really breaks anything. You’re assuming there that people actually stay where you can use your tablet on them constantly and effectively. Guardian can go pretty high with healing power too if you really focus on it, although I don’t have any exact numbers. With ranger, without any particular healing power focus, I can throw out 2k per 10 seconds from healing spring and about another 2k per 10 seconds from constant regeneration, so about 8,000 / 20 seconds. And ventari – unlike my ranger – is fully support oriented. So I don’t see a big problem there.

As for the blind, it sounds effective, but thief can be pretty efficient blind machine too if you go that route (e.g. sword/pistol). The duration itself isn’t much of an issue since it ends on the next attack, but 2 second cooldown sounds pretty strong. Can’t say much more without actually trying it out on practical situation.

My main concern was that these numbers were in zerker gear. If you spec for healing, sure, splash it out, enjoy. But the numbers for group healing are a little high for zerker stats. This is also without using the other ventari skills for group healing (#8 heals for about 1500 to the group in zerker, and #9 heals for 400 per removed condi (up to 3 removed).

I really like Ventari and staff, but its base values are not quite what I expected — though it may make Zealots gear a thing.

Yeah, but even in zerker gear you hit like a wet noodle so… the healing is the only way to stay alive.

So basically revenant couldnt fight its way out of a wet paper bag. DPS so low ambient creatures make fun of you.

Can’t even talk to my guild during this weekend? This is dumb. No loot, no rewards, no guild, no point.

No thanks. Maybe we should get rid of dodge too. And blocks. And lets remove weapons. What is wrong with you?

rhapsody.3615:

You are getting one Hero Point each time you level up. Those are used to buy your traits and skills, and will be used for other things in the expansion.

Not post level you’re not. The only way to get hero points is from 1-80 and hero challenges. You do not get them from leveling post-80.

The system is going to work for the mastery system once it is instituted. It probably didn’t make sense for them to remove it and then readd it later.

Yes, Elementalists don’t get weapon swap. They already have 4 attunements. Allowing them twice as many skills as other classes with 2 weapon sets.

Draknar.5748:

Dinks.2478:

Draknar.5748:

sorudo.9054:

try to say that after a long day’s work, stiff hands and then clicking your butt off to get a character to lvl 80, let’s see how long it takes till you cry like a baby because of the pain.

the idea of info is nice for new players but vets don’t give one single crap, they just want the character to lvl 80 and that’s it.

Are you saying that people have literally cried like a baby from the pain of all of the clicking, or are you saying it sarcastically, meaning you don’t think the clicking is a big deal.

I legitimately can’t tell if you honestly think the clicking to 80 is so bad it is physically painful or if you are being facetious.

Have your joints never burnt? Have you never had a hand cramp? Were you born with a silver spoon? Do you just get your butler to do all 240 clicks in a row for you?

Interesting jump from me asking if he was being serious about extreme pain from clicking a mouse to me somehow having a butler?

My joints have burned, my hands have cramped, I was not born with a silver spoon, my butler only does half of my clicks.

I have not experienced any of the above from GW2 clicking, however.

Might I suggest a programmable keyboard or mouse where you can program a button to do 50 clicks?

So now I need to buy expensive hardware to enjoy the game? I guess I missed the part of the game requirements that said “programmable hardware”.

Draknar.5748:

sorudo.9054:

try to say that after a long day’s work, stiff hands and then clicking your butt off to get a character to lvl 80, let’s see how long it takes till you cry like a baby because of the pain.

the idea of info is nice for new players but vets don’t give one single crap, they just want the character to lvl 80 and that’s it.

Are you saying that people have literally cried like a baby from the pain of all of the clicking, or are you saying it sarcastically, meaning you don’t think the clicking is a big deal.

I legitimately can’t tell if you honestly think the clicking to 80 is so bad it is physically painful or if you are being facetious.

Have your joints never burnt? Have you never had a hand cramp? Were you born with a silver spoon? Do you just get your butler to do all 240 clicks in a row for you?