Guild Wars 2

I would say the interrupt on staff is harder to land in small groups since it’s random. I really like the GS5 to get people off downed allies and thieves out of SR. It’s also much easier to chase with the GS. If you want to use staff in a power build I feel that you really need IE to double the staffs auto damage so I wouldn’t swap.

I’ve never been a fan of bombs or flamethrower in a front line build for engineer since they seem too slow to hit stuff/don’t do enough. I’m also just getting tired of running condi builds for my engineer for wvw. So bunker down seems like a nice way to solve those problems but I can’t really decide where I want to take the build.

2/6/0/0/0 seems essential to this build. I also plan on comboing the following to get around the condi problem.
Runes of Hoelbrak/Meladru
Lemongrass or Saffron bread
AR or Leg mods
This way I can focus on crits (bunker down) and toughness (knights).

Toolkit will be my go to melee weapon to make sure the mines are dropped on the enemies. Traited toolkit auto will also cripple enemies. This is where I hit the question; to SD or not to SD with this build? Then of course which other utilities? Mine field seems really good in zergs but I’m having trouble with SD and mine field. Any advice on this?
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUpkrdZxmKseNicBN6yMmwA6D+gR/pAA-TFSBABBt/AXK9MTJ4VKDwTHBmq/swDAAgLAAZAYmAA-w
2/6/0/0/6. Will be easy enough to swap armor for roaming SD to zerg SD. Rifle turret is a go to for SD but I’m starting to doubt if SD and rifle turret is worth it for a frontline build. Would it be better to just drop SD? or any advice on a better utility picks?

FYI, I’m on SBI and the zergs we fight aren’t that great/don’t stack retal so I don’t think I will have a problem surviving with this build. I’m mostly concerned about upping DPS and utility. TY!
Edit:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUpkr9dxELseRSbBFyJWRQtBRtxPXgAcUA-TVCEAB2s/QcXAgtUCykyDpUi1mOiGV/BgDEwDPQgAAIA38mB28mZoDdoDdoDthezhezhO0yAsMBA-w
Alternate build with double stun break with inertial converter. No SD but an AOE knockdown.

I was on my ele and trying out discount runes of privateer cause wvw armor can’t be salvaged. The parrot hit for a base of about 1k damage. When buffed with 6x might pre-patch, it hit for about 1.6k. Post-patch it hits for ~1.2k with 6x might.

This was not an spvp specific bug. This was not a mesmer specific bug. It definitely had something to do with might stacking on minions. My best guess is that might on the phantasm and mesmer were both boosting the phantasms damage/counting double somehow.

For those that tested and noticed no difference, do you notice a difference now? If not, there is no reason to complain. Yes we need bug fixes but this fix was above just mesmers.

The torch 4 is an aoe blind/blast finisher and hits relatively rather hard. For a lot of stacking spots in PvE where phantasms don’t/can’t work, the torch is actually a decent choice.

Arah especially has fights where phantasms practically or literally do zero damage. Blasting for stealth or just stealth in general can also help if your party/you have trouble with the long skips. Alternatively, if you need to keep 3 wardens up to defend your team for specific fights, why not swap to torch 4 for bonus damage after the wardens are set up.

xallever.1874:

DonGero.2847:

Does every other profession have a identity crisis if they change one weapon for another? People who don’t use the staff because it’s not the best in slot. Who cares, if we all played one build/style it would be the most boring MMO created. It’s getting close as any new build or idea’s are shot down and not deemed worthy for the “uber complicated” dungeons. I feel that everyone is so focused on maximizing damage, that only these two worthy builds can exist! Playing mesmer for a long and only seeing the same 4 builds over a span of two years is getting old….real fast.

As it happens, the post-patch makes people run different builds more than ever before.

The thing is, if the build is more or less a dead weight, why do people even bother optimizing it and calling out for opinions for the best inefficient build?

If people wanna run whatever they wanna run, they can go ahead and run them. But the one getting old is arguing that the inefficient playstyles can be in any way on par with the optimized playstyles.

If someone enjoys a style enough and really wants to stick to it, what’s wrong with them trying to get advice on it? Alternatively, if you pug often, would you prefer a play how they want pug that is or isn’t optimized?

As for the other professions and identity crisis, yes the other professions are in similar situations. Some weapons are significantly worse than others depending on the situation. Bearbow, rifle warriors, flamethrower etc… there are usually some obvious signs/stereotypes of terrible dps for a reason.

Our AI can be placed in odd places and then line of sight starts to get all wonky. iWave for example, I want enemies knocked back from a specific area. Stuff like gs3 wouldn’t matter as much but how does this combo with auto attack? Does the main mesmer do a clones worth of auto attack while the gs3 animation happens from another clone? Does the main mesmer pause? Do we essentially get a % chance at a freecast?

The depend on AI is that rangers still have their F1-F4 to control pets. Despite the patch fixing a lot of this, pets can still be sluggish and easily miss stuff.

Overall it sounds cool but I don’t think Anet will handle it well and more QQ will happen and then nerfs to a broken mechanic =/

Is it all ranged projectiles or all ranged attacks? Like does necro scepter get blocked? Do engineer grenades/flame thrower get blocked? Mesmer GS?

15% is still weak but I was under the impression that it was meant to counter all ranged stuff. I don’t play my ranger enough to buy this trait for testing but it does look promising.

100% the Orr maps. They give decent loot and you might get lucky with the exotic sigils/runes you get. No hearts mean they are also pretty easy to finish and you will get decent exp and some GM traits along the way.

I’m a fan of full zerker. Since traits can be redone whenever, it’s much easier to experiment.
4/4/0/0/6 is a full zerker shatter spec that works in open world PvE and WvW/pvp. Shatters not recommend in dungeons. Pvp/wvw shatter… depends on the person you talk to. 4 dueling and 6 illusions is very standard for DE and IP while the last 4 are more open.

6/6/0/0/2 is a max damage mantra+ phantasms build. 4 inspiration/4illusions is for maxing out reflect uptime which is also very useful in dungeons. The new patch has sorta butchered the mesmer meta/there isn’t really one build anymore. 2/4/0/4/4 or 2/4/0/5/3 are probably good enough for most things. Open world doesn’t have as many projectiles but in dungeons, it’s amazing.

If you are more into pvp/wvw but don’t like the sound of shatter, PU (6 chaos) makes you much tankier and then you can sort of do whatever with rest depending on your playstyle. 4/4/6/0/0 is fairly standard for PU though. Most go condi but zerker PU or hybrid also works.

I’ve started leveling a new mesmer and the two things I like the most right now are the gathering booster (random bl chest saved up ftw) 10 second swiftness on gather and
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Food#Swiftness
Helps a lot with mesmer mobility to be fast after kills or gathers.

I’m one of those full zerker people but… Magis… please use anything else besides Magis. Clerics at least if you want to be a healer but the new keeper set is great if you want to do some healing and actual damage. At least it has high power with low precision and healing power. Magis is the worst set ever for any class. Precision without power, crit or condi dmg is useless. Anything besides MAGIS!

Also, when enemies hit you for 10k, do you think retal even matters? The vigor you are sharing is at most 5 second assuming the ICD on the trait just triggered. That won’t help anyone on a 45 second CD. If you want to help boon support, start thinking about quality and intensity instead of quantity of boons.

To the OP, Hendo and Pyro have talked about an overall straightforward and good build to use. If you want to try something more boon supportish keep in mind that rangers have a trait that gives their pet a boon every time the ranger gets a boon. Have your gf use drakes for aoe or cats for single target dps + that trait. If she doesn’t have this trait, you will only share boons with the humans but not the pet. The big problem is that pets don’t dodge. Use reflects and interrupts to keep that pet alive and she won’t feel like she is playing a useless class. Sadly our new toy was nerfed into the ground so interrupting bosses will still be problematic. Runes of strength+sigil of battle/strength are great for might stacking and work with the mentioned builds. That might will also last 30+ seconds so trait signet of inspiration and you can actually maintain a lot of might on the group.

Those are all very different settings and 1 rune set/armor set won’t really work for them all. Should also give us a build and stuff if you want help. Teq and Wurm require less optimization especially from a mesmer so I would base your choice on WvW.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/23jkda/psa_ranger_runes_grant_the_7_bonus_with_pretty/

Apparently ranger runes work with phantasms. Another set of next best thing when it comes to reflects. Scholars would of course be better if able to maintain the 90% health threshold.

Runes of ranger used to be bugged to always give the bonus regardless of pet status. It still might be bugged. Or illusions might count as pets.

I cant find steady weapons and I don’t feel like gathering a large sample size right now but I suspect the bug still exists since the Devs in the live stream didn’t even realize it was bugged.

hendo.1940:

Strength runes are a waste of time on mes, plus they’re stuuuuuuuuuuuupidely overpriced and scholar is a lot cheaper.

Sigil of battle/strength+runes of strength has kept me at around 15-20 might in fights. For groups that are terrible at stacking might, this is much better for phantasms which do about 25% more damage. My sword attacks are doing a bit more with the bonus power than 2 × 1.1 sigils+scholars. Signet of inspiration can then also buff your group a ton. The 1 problem is that might doesn’t affect reflects but those are situational. Warden reflects aren’t affected by sigil modifiers anyways.

For groups with average might stacking, sigil of battle/runes of strength and 1 × 1.1 sigil is still looking pretty good. If it isn’t nighttime/you don’t have a slaying sigil, the runes of strength+battle are still better than scholars for auto attacks and phantasms.

For organized/ideal groups scholars is of course better. If you’re going for max reflects then strength+battle is also not the way to go. That’s why I have 6 swords and a few sets of armor.

In the above stuff I assumed that scholars is always active so rune of strength is potentially more potent than what I stated. Personally, I would prefer a pug mesmer of uncertain skill with runes of strength. Again, it’s not ideal in ideal conditions but it’s the next best thing that is ideal in pug conditions.

On a side note, has anyone found steady weapons or were those removed? I want to test stuff =(.

Tried a few dungeons/fotm last night and I was swapping traits almost every fight. 6 domination though with the new interrupt trait is great for trolling the AC troll trolling HotW. He didn’t get 1 jump off and my group facerolled him without dodging.

Other fights like grawl shaman had mixed results. I could interrupt 1 dive bomb but not the other(since he evades). The animation would finish but no damage/knockback happened. Because I saw a lot of this, it was hard to determine if I actually interrupted and only the animation finished or if this is still really buggy with defiant or if some bosses still just can’t be interrupted or if some specific skills just can’t be interrupted. Either way, the gw1 mesmer in me is super happy right now.

This one trait, if actually working as intended for PvE, is going to make it really hard to decide what is optimal DPS. Being able to prevent bosses from doing much will let your team keep DPSing. It can also keep your phantasms alive better. However, enemies doing nothing are enemies not being reflected at. Feedback can still be brought for 1 really strong reflect and mesmers will have to learn what to interrupt, what can be interrupted and what can be reflected.

However, this also means no 4% mantra damage trait. The 6/6/0/0/2 has it easy with swapping between the 2 domination grandmasters. The extra charge on mantras is nice as well. 4/4/0/2/4 will still be a go to for fights like Alphard and the midpoint golem at harpy fotm where you want the warden spinning as much without reflecting. Speaking of harpies, the warden is definitely more buggy than before on this fractal =(.

TLDR: Domination XIII is potentially too good but needs to be tested a lot before a new mesmer meta is really decided. There won’t be 1 build anymore but swapping can be done whenever now.

Xavi.6591:

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Never use ruby orbs. 2% crit dmg turned into 2 ferocity

Ruby orbs are:
+20 Power
+14 Ferocity
+14 Precision

The wiki’s been fixed now. I’m at school so I’m at the mercy of it with theory crafting. Even then, the runes of strength to ruby orbs is still a 2-9% loss in damage for phantasms/reflects/stabbing. If you use sigil of strength it falls behind even more (15-25% less). So I would still go with don’t use ruby orbs.

Xyonon.3987:

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Since the warden is bugged to not reflect, no use traiting it.

Tested, reflects, your argument is invalid.

Was not the best of my sentences.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Phantasmal-Warden-Is-Even-More-Bugged/first#post3909008

What I meant is that it’s buggier than before. If it doesn’t consistently reflect, then it’s less consistent damage. Why trait for less consistent damage when I can trait for a guarantee? Crit damage has also been nerfed so reflects make up less of our total dps. So this patch is hitting the warden trait 2 fold. There are a few places I will retrait but I plan on swapping to a build that doesn’t rely on a skill not bugging out. The warden will still protect the party assuming it attacks though. So I won’t drop the focus, just not trait it.

Never use ruby orbs. 2% crit dmg turned into 2 ferocity

After crunching a few numbers on the new stuff, Runes of Strength + Sigil of battle/strength are looking awesome if you don’t have a group that can stack might. If your group can stack moderate might, rune of strength + sigil of battle still seems worth it. If you’re in an amazing group then rune of scholar is the obvious choice.

For stacking sigils, put one on your underwater weapon. Even if you remove the land weapon, you still keep the stacks cause the underwater saves it. I’ve always picked sigil of perception before because of reflects not being affected by mesmer power. However, it’s a tougher decision now since crit damage has been nerfed a lot. Since the warden seems to be getting buggier, I’m actually really tempted to swap to bloodlust since most of our damage is going to come from the mesmer. Sigil of accuracy > force unless you’re in a group with perma fury/spotter/banner of D.

I’m going to try a 6/6/0/0/2 build when I get in game. Since the warden is bugged to not reflect, no use traiting it. Triple charges on mantras will help with upkeep on 4% more damage and give a bit more group utility. Will lose a lot of reflect damage but personal numbers will be nice. A lot more vulnerability potential as well. I was really kittened off last night when I saw all the bugs but after thinking for a bit, this build might keep me playing my mesmer on occasion instead of swapping to full time ele/engineer.

They also buffed kits and conjured weapon to ascended level. I haven’t checked yet but I doubt that phantasms were included in this.

Zanshin.5379:

One Note Chord.5031:

1. Like people have said, the stat switching is not the main point of a legendary. For the cost of a legendary you could make dozens of ascended weapons and buy an extra bag slot.
2. Even if legendaries don’t get refunded because the stat switching is sooo valuable, people with multiple whisperblades, etc. (does anyone have multiple infinite lights, volcanuses, mjolnirs, immobuluses?!) deserve a refund, because there is zero use for the duplicate now.

I think the fairest refund would be refunding all the components. It’s not ideal—people could have bought the weapons directly, prices have changed, etc.—but I think it’d be the best option. And if not for legendaries, at least for other forge skins! (Disclosure: I have duplicate legendaries but no duplicate basic forge skins.)

So, someone who crafted his legendaries at the very beginning of the game, when it was dirt cheap compared to nowadays, would get components that are 10 times more valuable (maybe more) than what he had to pay? Great idea! [/sarcasm]

Gold was also worth 10x as much when the game started. So that argument doesn’t hold up.

I agree with a few others that unsoul binding all the legendaries for this patch would be great. For all the people that think stat changing is worth the several thousand gold tag, they can keep the 2nd legendary and it becomes account bound again. For those that got them just as a skin, they can basically trade a legendary on the trading post for a different one. A lot of people got doubles before ascended weapons /stat change/best in slot was even announced so those are not a valid argument.

Lastly, let’s say I bought 800 gems and used a few on F&F dye packs. I then converted the leftover gems to gold to help fund my legendary. I’m sure there are others that busted out their credit card and straight up bought a legendary with gems. Do they get a refund? At what point does a gem store exclusive deserve a refund but items partially bought in gems don’t?

As Pyro mentioned, people can just walk away from this build. Yes, you have torment but the scepter doesn’t spawn clones next to enemies fast enough and the scepter clones suck. I really think GS and IE are going to be really important to make sure a torment shatter build will actually be able to kill something.

GS2/4 will spawn clones on top of people, while crippling, bleeding, vulnerability and might stacking. Then shatter those for torment and confusion. They will be running away slowly and painfully while being confused as to if they should remove some cover conditions. This will actually stop people from getting away. The GS clones can quickly stack bleeds and IE will also buff the staff clones damage a lot as well.

Assuming traveler runes aren’t getting nerfed, I might actually go for those as well. 2 stacks of torment in a small aoe around you when you heal isn’t going to help you chase or get away as much as traveler will.

Strill.2591:

This was brought up over and over again at release and Anet has done nothing. For example, the devs said that Cry of Frustration was made a core mesmer ability because they loved Backfire and so wanted all mesmers to have access to confusion. Obviously they didn’t care enough to make it any more than superficially similar to backfire.

I’ve never seen that quote and I doubt they said that . Maybe “confusion is a core condition of the mesmer and all of them should have it.”

Backfire still let the enemy caster damage the mesmer. FeedBACK > BACKfire.

Heraldusluminare.2946:

I don’t think the mesmer was dumbed down because ANet didn’t want GW2 to be like GW1 as much as the removal of the Energy bar.

Loss of energy bar but also loss of hexes/hex removal in general. Dodging is in some way an interrupt as well so mesmers aren’t required as much to interrupt a devastating enemy skill. More unique phantasms could cover the hexes. Only thing I want is a melee weapon with an actual leap or 2. Would help with the tricky/move around the battlefield a lot.

The one proposed idea that I really liked is the idea of a weapon not tied to clones (or maybe even illusions in general). Like if we just had a melee weapon that wasn’t kitten compared to other classes, I would be so happy.

I don’t think they are talking about tier unlocks. I think they are talking about the individual trait unlocks. So all new characters will have to pay/explore to unlock all the individual traits. Old characters won’t have to do the pay/explore for traits but I think the old ones will still need to hit 80 before being able to use GM traits in the new system.

DrMatt.9408:

I take it you guys agree with devs decision to destroy the efficacy of AR then? May I ask what alternative anti-condition defense people use? Seriously I’d love to know. Surely as a class that is supposed to be the master of elixirs and medicines, we should have many options for condi-removal right? I mean a war can cleanse 3 conditions every 10 secs just by hitting you with a hammer…

Dodge the hammer then. Seriously though, I saw this as a buff. Why is it that some people think only warriors can use runes of melandru or runes of hoelbrak? Also food for -40% condi duration for wvw. Now engineers can have -65% wvw (-25% pvp) condi duration above 33% life and -100% wvw (-75% PvP) below 33% life. For WvW, the immunity kicks in earlier and is 100% a buff to me.

Necros also can’t counter it by bursting conditions right before since you are resistant from the beginning. It’s not perfect for PvP but at the same time you have a bit more health to dance around the condi resistance before a power build ganks you. Keep in mind that condis round down so -75% is greater than 75% reduction in condi dmg.
As others have stated, the healing turret/elixir gun are still there. The anti stun duration also helps since I usually run with 1 or 0 stun breaks on my engi. Compared to dogged march or geomancers freedom, those only give the classes 98% immunity to cripple/chill/immob not 100% to ALL conditions. I like the change.

Last time I tested weapon rarity and phantasm damage, ascended did the same damage as exotics.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Tests-for-phantasms-and-weapon-grades/first#post3011036

However,
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/223bmq/are_ascended_weaponslegendary_weapons_pointless/
An anet dev responded to an engineer’s post about kits and ascended weapons with “Ask this question again in a couple weeks.” Engineers have a similar problem as mesmers since kits currently use exotic quality.

There is hope for better phantasms!

rabidsmiles.5926:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Aside from the random boon procs on your allies, your passive agressive, selfish defense weapon isnt bringing anything to the game.

Forgive me, but what mesmer weapon isn’t selfish? Sword blocks but only for you of course…scepter blocks but again only for you…GS will give out some might but usually others already have that covered. So what weapon isn’t selfish? I am honestly asking, not trying to be snarky or anything

At least with staff you have an aoe that not only damages but aids your allies as well with a random boon or two. And it lets others blast away to get Chaos Armor along with Null field. Yeah it’s on a long cooldown but it’s an option the other weapons don’t give.

The sword 4 and scepter 2 will only block for you if you press them once. If you press them twice though, it interrupts/blinds in a line which helps your whole team. Pistol 5 stun/daze/blind also can help your team. Torch 4 is an AOE blind/blast finisher. Warden is reflects for everyone and focus 4 is another interrupt/pull which can benefit the team. Combine focus 4 and 5 for aoe condition removal. So most of the mesmers weapons can benefit a team.

The staff is random and I would never rely on it. Sure a random aegis is nice but I’m not going to bank on that and it probably won’t affect most people on my team since they aren’t going to wish for an aegis and not dodge. The chaos armor also requires you getting hit before a proc happens. If you are tanking waves of weak hits, chaos armor would be great. That never/rarely happens though. The staff auto can also be a detriment to your team. When people blast might/use skills to buff others, that might is usually 20-40 second durations. Having the staff clones give 5 seconds of might can actually be a detriment to other peoples builds as it starts getting rid of the more long lasting might. Furthermore, the ethereal fields can get in the way of more potent fields.

TLDR: So basically, the staff can hurt your team or it’s too random to really help your team. Most of the mesmer weapons, through active defense (blinds/interrupts/reflects), will protect your entire team and are not selfish.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vEAQJAoYhMMKgWExnBr0AQowAjHdsBAiHW4AAA-zUBBofBM1sIaslRFRjVZDT9iIqWMAMB-w
Melee zerg build?
10/30/30/0/0. PVT because wvw but it could be optimized.

Just going to copy part of my post from
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Wow-the-new-traits-for-Ele/page/2

I’m thinking this could actually get away with going almost full zerker. For those complaining about it being a major mesmer trait, the mesmer trait doesn’t give weakness and most of our interrupts are not AOE nor can we spam as many as eles have in an AOE.

I was just like you about a year ago. I used to play my warrior as easy mode (about 300 hours on it) but after half a year I completely stopped playing it. So boring, not that tanky, won’t save the team and also not the best at DPS.

Warriors have more passive defense while the mesmer has super strong active defense. Despite being a full zerker light armor, I actually consider my mesmer tankier than my warrior while being able to prevent so much damage from happening to myself and my team. For damage, the mesmer is lower until you look at reflects and then they even out. Under somewhat ideal conditions, the mesmer can pull ahead even without reflects. For open world PvE, phantasm -> shatter spiking enemies kills stuff faster than my warrior.

If you want to do some amazing damage and buff your teams damage like crazy, go ele or engineer. They can also help defend the team better than a warrior and are really fun to play. Thieves also bring some awesome utility with stealth and have amazing dmg as well. They take effort though. I don’t find the other classes as fun but I do play them from time to time and they are all decent to great if you are willing to spend the time to truly learn them.

TLDR: If I’m stuck in a group of noobs, I would never bring my warrior as it will never save the day. In the end though, play the class (or classes) you find fun and get good at it. To answer your question though, I would say necro for PvE is the worst but they are not terrible. Most rangers just suck at playing a ranger =/.

Charging that mantra is like using ether renewal against a thief: free backstabbing and you will lose more health than you gain. Without DE, you will also have pretty low clone generation so shatters/heals won’t happen often nor will your phantasm DPS. Overall, this build will accomplish nothing but slowly bleeding out (not actual bleeding condition but this also has no condition removal) without doing any damage.

If you can’t avoid the first backstab, decoy and ether feast. From there it’s about active damage avoidance since now you know another backstab will be coming soon enough. Everyone’s mentioned some form of this because mesmers don’t have recovery like a 0/10/0/30/30 DD ele. If you need a crutch, PU with aegis/protection is to prevent further damage from happening. Regen is just icing.

I only need 1 Bolt now to use them on every sword-wielding character I have. The people without legendaries can still craft one and then get the same benefit so that isn’t an argument.

It is a matter of loss though. I crafted the 2nd Bolt just for the skin. They are always set to zerker and that has never changed. I could care less about the legendary status as well since multiple ascended zerker swords are dirt cheap in comparison to a 3k gold price tag.

I think a simple solution would be to make any duplicate legendaries no longer account bound. I’m still losing 15% of 3k or 400g if I try to sell it right now but I still get most of my money back on a super expensive skin because that’s all it ever was. How many double bolt mesmers or double incinerator thieves/eles do you think change the stats? Are we suddenly going to run condi builds?

If that is the case, I will at least wait for the patch but I’m sharpening the pitchfork.

The reason I think it’s per clone is because 3 seconds of retal is way too weak and every other shatter trait is per illusion shattered. Given the various screw ups in typing on the stream, I wouldn’t be surprised if Allie mistyped something else on that powerpoint. Vigor is from the inspiration shatter trait and I recommended it for a boon shatter support build. If it works without illusions, then would the shatters keep going on 3 second CDs that happens when no illusions are shattered? Cause that would be crazy OP and worth it. If not, it’s terrible and I will be grabbing a pitchfork after the patch hits.

I don’t care if we can get some of those boons elsewhere. Boons stack in duration or intensity so more might is never a bad thing. Fury is a big deal for mesmers as it’s hard for us to come by. If you want to use signet of inspiration to support, it’s about the huge boon duration/intensity spike then signet of inspiration every 36 seconds. If you aren’t maxed out in the important PvE boons (Vigor/might/fury), those builds are worthless. This is why I think this synergizes with bountiful interruption in a PvE boon share build.

For pvp/wvw, again, just look at a lot of osicat’s shatter builds; he often goes 20 chaos. If shatter builds go 20 chaos often enough, then 10 extra points for another shatter trait is enough synergy for a shatter spec. Too much synergy and we are forced to run a specific kind of build

For roaming/pvp there is actually a lot more options with this. The big questions is does it work with zero clone IP. That is the difference between good and great.

You will of course have to pick deceptive evasion or IP but I think this trade off can be worth it. Most shatter mesmers with the traditional 4/4/0/0/6 will use F3 for vulnerability stacks and then F1 so I don’t know why you think this is a problem. 4/4/6/0/0 was the first thing I thought of. It looks like a PU at first glance but no focus on invis. Just being able to set up powerful spikes very fast. A bit more of a tanky shatter build. Power based. F3 will now go for vulnerability and might/fury. This is amazing for a shatter spike. It does lose IP but those other buffs + tankiness means this could work for wvw roaming.

0/4/6/0/4. It’s probably best as a hybrid build but I could see it working as full condi or full power. Still trait IE but the shorter CD on staff 2 isn’t that big of a deal now. Toughness to condi dmg and condi dmg bonuses are nice since those clones are going to do double dmg compared to now.

What does the new trait bring? Might on F2 means your confusion spike hits harder. Fury is still good. Only sacrifice 1 clone since vulnerability isn’t happening on F3 before you hit F1. Retal can come from multiple sources but how often do ppl use those traits >_>. Retal on F1 kind of makes sense though as a bonus. You just spiked them and have no clones up. You’re a bit tanky with 300 extra toughness. You’re probably going to take a few hits anyways. Why not? Regen can come from chaos armor or the minor chaos, so it’s not like you are always wasting the protection. When I hit distortion, it’s also often an oh #@$ moment. Having my health regen while I’m invulnerable isn’t bad.

TLDR, I find it synergizes with other traits in the line or builds that would use chaos. Just look at a lot of osicat’s shatter builds; he often goes 20 chaos. The extra 10 at the cost of IP is a tough decision but that’s good. It means there is some semblance of balance.

I have to disagree with just about everything =/. In general I don’t like random. I also think it will be a decent trait.
So for dungeons, if I were to bring a boon share build, I would do this one:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vgAQRAsd8cnsISBa2qGeqB1aGJM9AA+GAnUk8lTShrVNA-zQBBYfDiOzsIasVOFRjVXDT5iIqWIAmA-e
I haven’t picked sigils yet and this could be optimized more. 50% boon duration and 100% might duration. It’s still a sword+sword/focus build. Mirror images/sword 3 + F3 on a boss at the start and also sword 4/4. Signet of inspiration and warden/feedback as needed.

24 vulnerability, 22.5 seconds of vigor, 21.5 seconds of fury, 20 might for 20 seconds, more random boons on interrupt. Phantasms will provide the regen. Aegis was always meh on boon share since it won’t consistently save anyone. Aoe vigor vs aoe protection… I would choose vigor post patch and let someone else deal with protection. This of course runs into the problem of F3 is a 45 second cd and signet of inspiration is a 36. If you are willing to sacrifice phantasms to F2/don’t need reflects, F2 will give 9 stacks of might for 30 seconds and 22.5 more seconds of vigor.

TLDR : With F2/F3, perma vigor for the group, 50% fury uptime, 25 might for about 60% of the time and more random stuff. It won’t be optimal in high end groups but it’s will probably be good for random pugs if not better than the meta builds since it still reflects but is a huge buff to group dps.

You always lose out on something when you go into a different line. The reason I ignored water is that this build is meant to camp earth. Swapping away means 120 less armor and no longer immune to crits. The build you proposed is a different playstyle but I would make it 10/10/30/20/0 instead. 15 air isn’t great without fresh air. Both would be viable depending on the setting but that’s good. This is just adding options. Just keep an open mind about the new stuff.

Also, I think you are underestimating weakness as it’s about 25% dmg reduction. If the lightning bolts hit as hard as scepter 2 then it’s going to be a lot of extra damage when you go 30 air. Dagger is a great mainhand power weapon so I’m not sure what you mean. I picked dagger because air 3 can interrupt plenty. Fire 3 is now an evade and some extra mobility. If you want ranged, I would go staff actually since static field and earth 4 are more interrupts without an aoe limit. In smaller groups sc/d could work for quick spike/might stacks then back to conjure melee stuff but I thought of this idea as a zerg build and sc/d is not a zerg weaponset.

As for how viable they are… they can be clunky but I’ve had good time using the hammer and it works. Really high dps and blind on auto attack for usually pve. Great stuns for pvp stuff. I haven’t played with the shield as much but I think it’s this build that makes it shine.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vEAQJAoYhMMKgWExnBr0AQowAjHdsBAiHW4AAA-zUBBofBM1sIaslRFRjVZDT9iIqWMAMB-w
Melee zerg build?
10/30/30/0/0. PVT because wvw but it could be optimized.

D/D or D/F or staff, depending on utility/temporary roaming capabilities.
Importantly Conjure hammer/shield and tornado because you can camp earth attunement. The 3rd utility can actually be anything.

The hammer has static field so it procs stuns and the air trait. Leaping through the field is a another daze with hammer 2. Hammer 3 is a knockback. Hammer auto is of course awesome. So basically CC like a warrior and then let your whole zergs leaps do more CC but the ele doesn’t have an AOE limit.
Earth shield 3 is a daze. Earth shield 4 is an unblockable AOE pull. Earth 5 for some immunity to dmg.

Geomancers freedom, melandru and lemongrass for the near condition immunity. CC and DPS is pretty good and you have plenty of interrupts which = more damage and weakness which is more tankiness. Weakness + immune to crits is even better because you camp earth with conjures. Also, earth shield 4 gives protection so this is going to be super tanky. Then add your actual weapons for a bit of flavor.

Tornado will buff power and precision as usual but it now also spams bonus damage and weakness in an AOE.

Let these traits sink in a bit before you decide water and arcane are absolutely necessary for the ele. Even 30/30/0/0/10 could probably go almost full zerker and survive with weakness and blinds in small groups.

For wvw, runes of hoelbrak and lemongrass soup. You lose about 10% dmg but they lose 60% or more. Worth it. Then menders/mantra for the occasional 30 second bleeds.

Shortbow staff; double legendary rainbow. I would farm those up if I could make it happen. If they give us a shortbow though, are you sure it won’t be a melee weapon for mesmers?

For the condi shatter build, keep in mind that IE is being buffed for staff clones.
I would go staff/gs 0/4/4/0/6 rabid gear. Staff will now do a lot more sustain condi dmg since double proc from clones on staff auto and sharper images. Swap to gs for a gs2/4 shatter spike for torment and confusion when someone runs. They are crippled but it’s painful to move and painful to cast. (And poisoned with a sigil) Staff could have bleed and torment sigils on it for sustain while the gs has battle and doom to really finish someone off. Condi duration sigils are getting buffed but IE + staff clones will be enough burning.

For the new chaos one, that’s kind of tricky. This build will have to choose DE or IP so 2/0/6/0/6 or 4/4/6/0/0. The new rune of strength is 45% more might duration and 7% dmg with might. 18 seconds of might on all shatters if IP is traited. 27 second of 3 stacks of might per clone on F2. These builds would potentially have bountiful interruption as well so that a F3/F2 combo can give fury, 9-25 stacks might, 8-18 vulnerability before F1 even kicks in. Bountiful interruption can do that alone but it requires 5 targets or a build up time. This would be near instant. Retal on F1 and regen on F4 are nice bonuses to a slightly tankier shatter build.

So the inspiration one is a bit weak since healing itself is sorta weak but I don’t think it’s actually bad. Domination looks good for PvP. Chaos and Illusions also look good for shatter builds in WvW or PvP. That is not to say they couldn’t use tweaks, but I like the vision that these have and I will try them out and be happy about it.

The Dueling one is the only one I don’t like because it seems fundamentally broken. It’s a snowball effect that doesn’t stack but is meant to be used against waves of enemies. What it needs to be is distortion while in combat; Lasts 1-3 seconds with a 15-30 sec ICD. Thematically, the mesmer is never caught flat-footed in any duels. This would be the defense that the dueling line needs and would actually work with reflect on distort. It’s a bit gimmicky and ppl would learn to never blow their load at the start of a fight but those few seconds will give the mesmer the “high ground” to spike first.

frifox.5283:

musu.9205:

use zerker gear +mantra heal better than crap healing mesmer, far better

No, cleric healing is always better than zerk healing no matter how poorly it scales.

Now, if you’re referring to overall usefulness then yes, zerk mesmer is much more useful than a cleric one because you’ll also be contributing DPS along with your mantra healing by having phantasm deal damage while you are charging the mantras.

How about a middle ground. Use keeper gear; Power, precision healing power. Is it ideal? No! But if you insist on being a healer, don’t nuke your damage. This will probably be the 2nd or 3rd best dps stat array in the game post patch. And don’t go staff. Still go sword + sword/pistol/focus. Those are much more controlled interrupts.
0/30/0/30/10 or something. Then there are those new sigils and stuff that increase outgoing heals. The regeneration could approach ~600 or more a second while still providing warden reflects which is the better choice than mantra heal. ~30% dps loss over full zerker.

Why would they mention sigils affecting us a lot though?
We aren’t warriors with 5 second weapon swaps.
Are sigils actually going to affect illusions now?

So for temple of blath, I sometimes run bomb heals to keep the NPCs alive (25/15/30/0/0). In dungeons my engineer is always 30/30/0/0/10.

When running around orr, my bombs (super optimized sigils etc) hit for about 5k without might. When pumped up with group support I can hit upwards of 10k per bomb but average at 8k per crit. With the bomb heal build, it’s closer to 2.5k crits and 4k might crits. So there is a huge loss in DPS going 30 into inventions. Those are only crits and bombs are 1 bomb per second.

With the new trait (If there is no ICD) an engineer would take 3 turrets+bomb kit. Rotate turrets and then immediately pick them up for the faster recharge on turrets. So 2x 4 second reflects on a 15 second cd and 1×4 second reflect on a 20 second cd.

As you mentioned, they also have fire, water, blind fields in that build and the turrets can be blown up for blast finishers. 1-3 additional blast finishers depending on elite/weapon choice. They also have aoe condi removal with the turret but this build leaves them with no stability or stun breaks. They will also stack mass amounts of vulnerability (10-20 depending on traits/fight).

For lupi, I still think mesmers will be better and the engi is better off going full dps. I also suspect the aoe of the turret reflect will be small and might have an icd (just speculating on that) For some fights though, having 3 guaranteed mini reflects on short cd can be better. They won’t have pulls unless they go 10 into tools but that is a terrible pull on a 2 second delay and small radius when they swap to the bomb kit.

TLDR: No it won’t replace mesmers as reflectors. It’s decent and with the new trait reset anytime, could be useful to swap to it occasionally if your group really needs the extra reflects. I would not run it normally and will still play both classes.

Edit: Just saw pryos post. No they don’t give up most group utility as seen above. They just give up a ton of damage.

Also
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Mesmer-vs-Phantasm/first#post3251209
Going from the last time we had a similar conversation, I mentioned sword auto ~= swordsman x 3. It looked like you agreed with me at the end. (The potions are fixed now too) Keep in mind that those were not optimized numbers and I didn’t factor in mantras at the time or super optimized sigils. So toss in 1.04^3 on those numbers since we both now use mantras. Already, it’s not a 50/50 split anymore.

The idea that you won’t always have compounding power maxed is also not an argument for traiting phantasms. If my sword auto isn’t doing 1.03^3 more then I don’t have 3 swordsman/illusions out. This means that my damage is weighing heavily in favor of my sword auto. So if you say the average of compounding power is 3% then the stab to phantasm ratio is actually about 80% stabbing to 20% phantasm. Furthermore, I will still use sword 3/4 which happen to spawn clones. So I’m actually more likely to have 6-9% stabbing even though I don’t have 3 phantasms out.

Xyonon.3987:

Actually more like 3% since 50%~ is phant dps (if not reflecting much).

By this logic 15% more phantasm damage is only 7.5% more. Be fair about those comparisons. If you stack a lot of damage multipliers, I find that phantasms become >40%. I’ve actually been using torch 4 in some encounters for the blind, blast finisher and nuke. (You can immediately attack after stealthing and the bomb will still go off)

Xyonon.3987:

And then there was a 2nd harpy… Or even a 3rd? The 2nd path is not skipable without a thief / engi, mesmers stealth won’t last long enough. It helps – again – but what I really wonder is if the wardens reflections are affected by modifiers … ? o.o

If you want to fight them, 0/30/0/25/15 is better. Between the warden, curtain (Even if they are on different platforms you can melee cleave a few of them with a good pull and stack reflects easier) feedback and mantra of concentration (#@!$ buggy warden moments) I never felt the need for a longer feedback. Like the first leg bugged out so bad one time that I felt the need to redeem myself. Even though a pug mesmer ported up the side, I went and solo’d the second leg with that build. No 3rd inspiration required.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Dungeon-reflect-build/first#post3434148

My post in that link answers your question though. Phantasm reflect are only affected by the phantasm traits. If you are optimizing all those multipliers though, you should default to feedback for stuff like lupi because it will still hit harder, is instant and catches more projectiles than the warden does.

Xyonon.3987:

Mainly it’s the 10/30/0/30/0 VS 0/30/0/25/15 thing I’m talking about.

• +3-9% personal (!) damage
• 15% CDR on shatter (mainly F4, sometimes F3)
• 20% cdr on illusion summoning skills
• 100 condition damage (bleeding +5 dps per tic … lol)

or

• 100 power (~3-5% dmg for you AND your phants)
• 10% condi duration (bleeding / vulnerability)
• +15% phantasm damage (if illusion 25 traited, multiplicative calculations result into +17.25% damage)
• vulnerability on interrupt (F3, sword 4, focus 4, GS 5, pistol 5, mantra, Staff 5)
• 5 points left, either in inspiration for a 3rd kitten trait, or in dominion for huge vulnerability stacks on daze mainly procced from F3 or sword 4 in a line.

The bleeding with 10 domination ticks for the same amount as the bleeding with zero domination since 5.5 seconds rounds down to 5. 150 condition damage = 7-8 more per bleed. It’s not much but with 2 wardens or duelists ~150-200 extra damage per second isn’t the worst. Definitely better than 10% bleed duration which does nothing.

If you are comparing the two builds, it’s 15% more phantasm damage. Not 17.5%. Collectively they do 32% more than a build with none but the phantasm build with both is only doing 15% more than the build with one.

Those two points are minor nitpicks though and what it really comes down to is:

+3-9% dmg on stabbing AND reflects
20% illusion cooldown
vs
3-5% for stabbing AND phantasms.
15% phantasm dmg
3rd illusion trait
Vulnerability which isn’t sustainable.

Personally, I have never needed that 3rd inspiration trait. Sometimes I don’t even need the second one. What my group does NEED sometimes, is the 20% cooldown because having the 3rd warden up a few seconds faster makes a big difference for a lot fights. So if more reflects are needed that 20% outweighs everything in the other build.

If extra reflects are not needed, then you are making the wrong comparison of meta builds. 10/30/0/20/10 vs 10/30/0/30/0 is what you should be talking about.

+3-9% dmg on stabbing AND reflects

vs

15% phantasm dmg
3rd inspiration trait.

Most high end groups that max out all their damage multipliers are still going to pick the first one. If you don’t have a bag full of potions and weapon swaps though, your build is pretty good. It’s just not meta because it’s slightly lower in damage with no need for that 3rd trait.

“18. Illusionary Elasticity trait. (reported by Asuka Shikinami, Wiki)
Does not affect staff clones even though affects other clones.”
“18. Fixed on feature build if not on live.”

Did no one else think this might be a nerf to the rest of the bouncies instead of a buff to staff clones? I hope I’m being too cynical on that though.

Also I know some mesmers were going gs/staff shatter builds with IE anyways. It’s a bit more sustain and might/fury for those builds. Otherwise, I’m also not convinced that this will be that strong of a buff since 20 domination is a lot of good stuff. Will just have to wait and see for the entire patch.

For my mesmer, the more important question was which rune sets should I get? So I have several zerker sets, a rabid set and a mix of tanky gear. However, with the supposed huge change to runes and the ~10% decrease in crit dmg coming next month or so, I’m holding off on any new gear until I see what the changes are.

You should be fine with those two sets for a while. Just save up your gold, tokens and badges.

First we need offhand dagger +
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue
It hits like a truck but we don’t really control positioning when downed. This would make fear actually useful. Basically, fear can’t do damage on it’s own (no stepping on necro toes) but we need a mechanic to utilize enemies running away from us. Necros can’t proc runes of perplexity with fear, so it won’t even trigger our interrupt traits.

Alternatively, the scepter auto having .1 seconds of fear but no clone spawning. The mesmer spreads out the clones. Every 3-4 seconds, your enemy spins. Is this not the control weapon you would want?

Otherwise, I don’t think we need it. It fits thematically but we don’t gain anything out of fear besides more noobs QQing about mesmers needing nerfs. We can already immob on interrupt. Why add fear on them when they already have immob, daze and a random condition? It’s useless salting of wounds. What would we gain from a long fear that we wouldn’t with a long stun or knockback? Currently, fear would break some of our phantasms even more because the warden “loves” chasing/staring people down.

Edit: Just realized that scepter 1 with 0.1sec fear+ scepter 2 torment is actually one more thing we can utilize. It would be minor movement and no actual dmg since it’s too short of a duration BUT it would trick enemies into moving.

ronpierce.2760:

Curunen.8729:

ronpierce.2760:

Well if we still get no sympathy after you can taste it, good riddance, I hope this bug lasts just as long as the moa one did. Also you can stealth cast moa, so it’s not always predictable/noticeable. Also, clones don’t die when the target stealths, they die when they try to attack (time counter) and the enemy stealths, so they don’t always die, mostly to thieves because their stealths last longer. I guess learn to deal with it like MM have to. >_>

Using one of the few stealth skills available (taking all 4 stealth skills is generally unnecessary) to cover the cast of a long cooldown elite is smart play.

I’m with DuckDuckBOOM on this – unless you’re 1v2+ or more mesmers all with moa, I don’t have much sympathy with necros on that, given how easily they can melt mesmers with conditions.

However back to the topic, that seems more interesting with illusions dying because they don’t have a target when they attack. Still worried about playing shatter vs thieves (or PU mesmers) now, but I’ll reserve judgement until I’ve tested it myself.

Make an MM I bet you 100 bucks I can get you every time with moa. The other thing is, in tpvp you can stealth before being seen and moa them. Do you even use your brains to think about REALISTIC scenarios? You can STEALTH cast a doom spell on an entire build. No sympathy, really? Just goes to show this entire forum is greedy “I don’t want counters but other people can be countered by me, no problem. It makes sense”. You people are childish and ignorant.

When a mesmer decides to blow a stun break, stealth and elite at the start of a fight, run away for a few seconds if you miss the dodge. They are in essence, swapping an elite+utility for a CHANCE to disable as many of your utilities/elites as you let them. Don’t let them destroy everything. If you see an enemy mesmer is on the opposing team, don’t blow all of your cooldowns at the start and only summon 2-3 minions instead of 5. Or just swap a few utilities out. When a mesmer moas myself on a necro, I manage just fine because my necro neither uses nor REQUIRES minions.

You are comparing a COMMON ABILITY that is a HARD COUNTER to the CORE MECHANIC of a ENTIRE CLASS to an ELITE that a counter to PART of a build. It is you that is being selfish and ignorant for thinking these are anywhere close to being on the same level of each other.

It’s an elite that is dodgeable that counters minions. Minions can be a core of a necro build but not a core part of the class. You can easily swap utilities if there are too many mesmers causing you problems. Mesmers are not able to swap illusions out for something else. If a necro elite or any other ELITE instantly destroyed our illusions for a short time, I would not be whining at all and deal with it despite it being a core mechanic for the entire mesmer class. This is why I have no sympathy for necros when it comes to minions and moa: I would have no sympathy for myself in that situations. Again, necros could use buffs for other reasons but don’t bring up moa.

Stealths last 3 seconds base duration and mesmers/thieves can bump it up to 4 seconds with traits. Phantasms attack every 3-5 seconds. Clones attack more often. It doesn’t take much timing to wait for those phantasms. Wait 2-3 seconds after they attack then stealth. Of the 4 stealth classes, they can stealth at least once every 20 seconds. Again, not dodgeable. So something that is a hard counter to basically 50% of mesmer effectiveness every 20 seconds or less.

Not only does Moa have a 180s cd, it is also dodgeable. I have zero sympathy for Necros when it comes to Moa & Minions. (Necros do need some help but not on this.)

Enemy stealth cannot be dodged. Ranger LB #3 and C&D can be used against illusions. Engineer smoke blasts is also plenty of stealth spam. Mesmers have stealth themselves.

Mesmers have at least 2 illusions (potentially 4) tied to all of our weaposets. F1-F4 requires them. Our auto attacks are weak because phantasms make up a huge amount of our damage. So basically 4 classes can counter our core mechanic with a spammable invis bugging out.

I’m guessing this is due to the recent client optimizations that they rolled out. Getting rid of illusions faster reduces the amount of AI that is summoned. Probably for similar reasons that they changed the fire powder in summoning the ember. This is what scares me the most. If it’s tied to a huge optimization that was rolled out, I don’t think they are going to hot fix it because they can’t unless they revert those big changes which they probably won’t. =(

Checked again with a few party members and solo. The field that goes down first is the one that gets blasted.