Guild Wars 2

at this point anet just better delete thief if they hate it so much.

anet have you ever thought of setting a pts(public test server) inviting high/top players to actually try your incoming patches?

I say this because you just proposed a change that will determine heavily the meta, and because you have proved that you can’t balance your classes properly I fear this will get of out hands again.

ESO is a great example, every time they announce a patch they put the pts so players can actually test the changes before they apply them, you can’t balance a game based on spamming skills without cds tho but gw2 is different and it would be really great to have a pts for inc patches.

remove thief plz

2 years and Anet still don’t know how to balance this class, they keep doing the same nerfs and buffs.

It’s hilarious…

Alatar.7364:

Elxdark.9702:

You can still play Staff as it was meant to be with DA

Excuse me, but why do you think that Staff was ment to be played with DA?

Sorry that was more like a personal opinion than a fact, I personally like to play staff with DA I think they support each other really well, acro for me is too many dodges.

alchemyst.2165:

Elxdark.9702:

alchemyst.2165:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

how can you say that? acro/DD staff is just as lame as condi D/D thief…if not worse, it rely on rotating staff #3bound #3#3 bound #4 and the odd #5 staff. you have d/p as 2nd set for even more easy mode. you also have traits proc inative and other effects if you randomly evade an attack (I am talk about the out numbered bits here, opfc you are going to be fueled)

Well condi d/d is pretty gimmicky and isn’t hard to fight imo, but with acro staff the thing that people don’t get is that you’re not supposed to attack very often, and when you do, you need to bait out their dodges.

When fighting a good staff thief, a lot of them will bound then staff 3. This is a frame tight evade, meaning you cant interrupt between them, however, staff 3 has a clear window after the roll that you can hit them. It just takes focus to fight an evade thief, and it’s a learning process. I can make a video of me on an alt fighting a guildie if you’d like.

in that case good thieves will just exploit staff 3 + jump so people will not notice the dodge animation.

it seems that the whole fear guild is defending this build for some reason maybe it’s the 1v1 god potential…. anyway i’d like to hear how to counter staff 3 jump spam along with bounds, and please don’t say “don’t attack” lul.

Don’t take this as personal, there are really good thieves using acro staff and one can’t deny that but this build hurts the game and more importantly creates bad atmosphere for players.

If all a thief was doing was bound -> staff 3, they’d quickly run out of initiative, assuming you didn’t hit them after the staff 3, which is a fairly easy frame to hit. As for staff 3 jump spam, assuming you’re not a thief, it depends on the class. Depending on what your main defense is, IE damage reduction, healing, blocks, you can take a few hits of it. You usually won’t need to try and avoid the whole thing. Kiting and not overreacting to a staff thief is key.

Let me give an example. If I’m playing a warrior and I’m fighting a staff thief, I don’t have to try and dodge every single bound. That’s what a good thief will exploit. As a warrior I could GS 3 away, block with mace 2, time a shield bash or daze so it hits between staff 3’s, kite it, or just tank the whole thing and wait for them to run out of resources. Play smart and calmly.

A lot of the reason people complain, and even complain about it being op, is that a lot of what makes the build good is that it causes players to tilt and overreact to its offense.

One thing I would agree with is a slight damage nerf to staff 3, however. You do make a good point about it being very strong vs sb 3.

Maybe I expressed wrong when I said spam, but I’m talking about good thieves not those that will just use the skill till they run out of initiative. I’m talking about those that timing their skills carefully and know the initiative management.

For those if you give them even more resources to keep doing more and more dodges while doing damage at the same time it becomes really hard to justify it, and the only 1v1 that comes to my mind that does have a chance vs staff acro is dh, if same skill it would be a 60/40 for the thief if not it would be almost 100/0.

You said kiting but the thief can kite and very well too, needless to say if you use dp/staff you can just switch to dp wait for heal and keep fighting.

I agree that you can beat acro thieves but there isn’t a counter to them, all it takes is your mechanical skill and don’t panic when dueling acro thieves, if you take meta builds for example you can see that everyone has a counter, necro has mes, mes still struggles vs thieves, dh has druid, druid has war, war I personally think this one is a little hard to fight but not for the build or skill but passives it has too many passives that makes it hard to fight.

But if you see thieves in general they don’t have a counter, dp dash if played well shouldn’t die and acro staff shouldn’t die either unless they run into a 1v2-1v3 for more than one minute.
I think this is more like a problem with the class than the build itself, but yeah that’s my entire point.. that when you have thief builds like this it becomes a problem.

I really don’t know why they nerfed rev so hard, it was a fair 1v1 vs thief and the only one that could actually keep the pace vs it.

SlitheSlivier.1908:

One thing of sb3 vs staff 3 is that with sb, once you are distanced, you can attack your target and deal damage with pretty much all your attacks. With staff 3, sure you create distance, but you have to get back into the thick to deal more damage. To me, this more than justifies staff 3 doing more damage.

You can’t even compare the damage which produces sb vs staff, it would be fine if staff 3 didn’t hit so hard, I can’t agree that the distance the skill does justifies the damage.

One slightly nerf would put the damage from staff 4 in staff 3, look at staff 4 does fair damage blinds and has range, staff 3 is a dodge that does good dps removes immob and also cripples the foe, this would be ok if the damage wasn’t that high, remember that this is a defensive skill I think the devs thought this will be only used more like an escape skill than a dps combo.

Also as I have said, good thieves will just staff 3+jump so 1.- they avoid the dodge animation and distance and 2.- they keep pressuring the target.

reddie.5861:

i just dont understand how you trigger the weapon swap sigil for 3 crits (forgot the name) constantly without even swapping your weapon.

or am i kittened? :o

It’s the daredevil rune which gives you a crit every time you press the dodge key in combat.

Tbh there’s one thing i’d nerf, staff 3 does a lot of damage while evading and crippling the foe, this skill along with bound is the main source of damage of GOOD staff thieves, bad ones will just randomly spam vault.

Just compare sb 3 with staff 3 both skills were meant to be defensive skills and one does the job but the other does a lot more than that.

alchemyst.2165:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

how can you say that? acro/DD staff is just as lame as condi D/D thief…if not worse, it rely on rotating staff #3bound #3#3 bound #4 and the odd #5 staff. you have d/p as 2nd set for even more easy mode. you also have traits proc inative and other effects if you randomly evade an attack (I am talk about the out numbered bits here, opfc you are going to be fueled)

Well condi d/d is pretty gimmicky and isn’t hard to fight imo, but with acro staff the thing that people don’t get is that you’re not supposed to attack very often, and when you do, you need to bait out their dodges.

When fighting a good staff thief, a lot of them will bound then staff 3. This is a frame tight evade, meaning you cant interrupt between them, however, staff 3 has a clear window after the roll that you can hit them. It just takes focus to fight an evade thief, and it’s a learning process. I can make a video of me on an alt fighting a guildie if you’d like.

in that case good thieves will just exploit staff 3 + jump so people will not notice the dodge animation.

it seems that the whole fear guild is defending this build for some reason maybe it’s the 1v1 god potential…. anyway i’d like to hear how to counter staff 3 jump spam along with bounds, and please don’t say “don’t attack” lul.

Don’t take this as personal, there are really good thieves using acro staff and one can’t deny that but this build hurts the game and more importantly creates bad atmosphere for players.

sometimes diversity isn’t good for the game, like in this case acro staff was/is unhealthy for the game, a build which relies heavily in dodges and has almost an unlimited amount of them while doing damage ON a point is just too much.

Remember old s/d days? remember why it got deleted from the game? because it did eveything, 1v1 +1 teamfight and high mobility, ye the same could happen with staff acro I’m 100% sure they would have nerfed a lot more if dash didn’t exist.
Dash is the only skill that is preventing for all thieves going staff.

You can still play Staff as it was meant to be with DA but yea few people play staff DA because it’s a lot harder than acro and has way less 1v1 potential so ya.

Anyway I’d have nerfed #3 staff before acro it would have been more balanced than nerfing acro imo.

Finally the problem with thief is exactly that, “diversity” this is not an excuse or anything but when you give diversity to thief you will face a lot of problems, good players will always master those builds and people will start QQing(dd condi, acro staff stealth on wvw etc) this happens because thief is such an unique class that relies on spamming skills because they don’t have cds, and when you give them resources to keep spamming then you get cancer builds like the ones I said.

P.S: am I the only that finds a lot more interesting to play staff DA than staff acro?

ayyy krnos and min xD

how can u defend a build where the only thing u need to do is timing your #3 and dodge key everytime while you get rewarded for evading every single attack and also doing enough damage to pressure targets?

tbh anet should just delete acro line and make a new line because acro builds aren’t diversity, they are unhealthy for the game.

good changes but they should have nerfed more hard to catch maybe 1m cd and remove the dodge immune passive skillful trait that prevents getting one shot from being bad.

And for dp they didn’t touch PI which is really baaad, they need to do something about PI.

I said this before HOT but anet needs to realize when you combine the acro line with DD you get broken stuff.

Both builds are based on spamming evades till you run out of them (funny fact you don’t)

I don’t have any problems with both of them but it’s frustrating when your team lose vs them in 1v2s and 1v3s OR when you actually face good players and these builds become useless..

A simple fix is remove or remake the acro line, atm the line is full of passives and provides little counterplay for most traits, that along with the DD line create unhealthy builds like the ones you said.

no, you’re just bad and helseth is a good player that’s a big difference.

Yes you will have impossible matches sometimes and yes you won’t be able to carry every game but if you’re good enough you will be able to climb to legend/plat or whatever you want if you can’t then you’re bad sorry, that’s the reality.

Yes normal players wouldn’t be able to reach this goal because they’re bad, when you’re bad you can’t carry most matches and if you can carry most matches you will get stuck.

So my advice is try to actually get good, watch stream/videos ask for 1v1 learn to kite etc etc etc, if you keep blaming your team because is trash then quit this game.

it’s possible, in NA I did climb to top 10 once only solo with 200 games and I haven’t dropped bellow 1830 rating, so yeah it is possible but not recommended.

ReaperJr.5967:

ThatNAESLGuard.6238:

I asked grouch about voice chat at lan and he said it would never haopen

If that’s true, that has got to be the worst decision ever. Literally every single competitive team game has an in game voice chat. How else are you supposed to coordinate real time kitten .

But this game isn’t competitive, so it’s fine.

xD

Wargameur.6950:

We had “get rid of 5 man premade” not so long ago. I wonder what will happen when we will get rid of duo queue. Next thread will be “Solo queue = breaks matchmaking”

but he’s actually right, the population is a big problem we don’t have enough players playing at the same time if you add duos then matchmaking can’t make fair matches, it will always be based on your luck if you get duos or terrible solo players.

I agree, soloq for next season.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Ha! At least we push a few buttons. Your passives play the game for you.

Idk why people say this. I -was- a thief main before HoT made it boring, but jeez the class elitism is old old old old old old old. Have you ever seen an acro build? Thief has a passive stunbreak + endurance refill and a passive distortion. Can I get a passive infuse light?

You can’t blame the whole class because some people play acro builds.

Tbh anet should just remove acrobatics and make a new line, acro + dd makes kittened builds like acro staff or d/d condi.

nerf thief plz

staff for soloq, dp for competitive.

If you go competitive with staff you will get rekt if the enemy team has a dp thief unless your team is capable of holding 2 nodes the entire match dp thief will always be more useful.

I think we’ve talked a bit too much of this but dp is just better in any aspect but raw damage.
The fact that staff doesn’t provide any kind of stealth makes dp automatically better for opener/res/+1, if you want to 1v1 with staff then you’re a monkey and probably will never go pro.

Thet being said staff is better suited for soloq/low tier tournaments and dp for high level pvp.

why is my name mentioned in this conversation???? lul

that’s the problem, people don’t wanna play because this system is so good that when you lose a match in legendary you lose like x4/x6 what you gain per win, add a 50% chance to get terrible people in your team and the fact you have to be in duo every time you want to Q, then yeah people really don’t wanna play.

kdaddy.5431:

Elxdark.9702:

duos are fine imo, what is wrong is when the game puts you in a team where you already know you’re going to lose, like just right now I got the maygi kittened duo with another thief who played staff pp dash….

I mean seriosuly, does anet seriously expect ME to win that match? how.

That’s where this system fails when it puts you with people who don’t have a clue on how to play the game vs people who do have a clue and who are duo.

That aside I’ve seen slowly slowly better matches but still there are those stupid matches where you wonder if they really changed anything…

LOL you do realize you just said duos are fine then went on to say they are not?

That d/d condi thief who runs far with the power thief who can win 1 vs 1.

Im sure many people like myself in high gold/low platinum can share pics on the duo ques ive have against me.

Not to mention 2 of the top 5 players in the game saying THEY ONLY DUO QUE.

If you want to say its match making then fix match making and bring back 5 vs 5. If you want to say its competitive then make it solo que only.

You can t have threads about how you have 3 accounts in the top 250 with presumably hundreds of games played then another thread says how am i suppose to win against a duo que which is what everyone is complaining about.

Everyone in the community is saying these things which is saying something they are for but then again saying they are not for it in the same sentence.

I clearly said they’re fine, what is not fine is only when the game puts you vs strong duos and you have a kittenty team, that’s the system fault and not the duo.

You can’t blame duos for being duos, the system fails so hard at soloQ that’s why they duo and it’s fine, it actually make matches a lot more fun and competitive.

duos are fine imo, what is wrong is when the game puts you in a team where you already know you’re going to lose, like just right now I got the maygi kittened duo with another thief who played staff pp dash….

I mean seriosuly, does anet seriously expect ME to win that match? how.

That’s where this system fails when it puts you with people who don’t have a clue on how to play the game vs people who do have a clue and who are duo.

That aside I’ve seen slowly slowly better matches but still there are those stupid matches where you wonder if they really changed anything…

Erzian.5218:

I wonder how I am supposed to win every game (since I lose nearly twice as much rating for every lose than I gain for a win) while my team can’t even win favorable match ups 90% of the time.
This is the worst pvp experience I have ever had in this game far. It is actually worse than season 2 and 3. When you do the highest damage on your team as a mender druid while you have a reaper and a rev you cannot possible tell me that I am favored.

but hey the top 10 duos are having fun!

pretty UI tho.

sure duoq seems sooooooo gud, try soloq and you will want to quit after 3 matches.

Sind stop arguing with these wvw’ers, they talk from a low tier perspective, they will never understand unless they go pro and they won’t.

real question is : why are u still playing this game rar lul

im 100% sure next season is gonna be as boring and bad as the last ones, anyway gl with this ded game.

If you wanna play D/P which is fine I would greatly recommend to watch @sindrener, he’s one of the best if not the best thief in the game playing that build, not only his skills are amazing he also comments every step he does which is really good if you want to learn.

https://www.twitch.tv/sindrenerr This is his twitch.

It seems EU is much more active than NA, in NA you won’t get a Qpop not even in prime time and that’s pretty sad.

I and many others have to use our Alts to play ranked… like seriously anet do something.

I have played one game in the last 2 days, my queue just won’t pop at all.

Funny thing is that I see many legends and also people who I played against getting matches but it seems matchmaking thinks I don’t deserve to play anymore, rip.

not even 2k at eu qualifiers LUL//

Excellent stream with such great quality and a great amount of lag, I’m very impressed that Anet did worse than past streams, they’re really going to break their own limits!

PvP is already dead, Anet wanted this game for casuals and there you have, a bunch of passives, automatic stun breaker traits and condi cheese which only leads to boredom.

@Chaith you’re a pro and veteran player I can’t believe you are actually approving Anet patches… seriously dude the game is full of passives and there’s not skill involved at all, not even at high lvl play because that’s more team coordination than skill.

Yes this meta is somehow faster than the last ones but it isn’t even close to what balance means lol, stop trying to defend something which isn’t defensible.

Matisse.9356:

As I have already mentioned in another thread, I fully agree with the decisions made by Anet.
The behaviour by Argi during the interview on the stream was highly unprofessional.
He was wearing his heart on his sleeve, which is a privilege or youth, but this was just shortsighted.
If he and his team do not wish to play GW2 ESL, they should quit and make place for people who wish to do so.
No respect for that kind of behaviour.

That interview resumes what gw2 has become, a joke.

Not even these so called pro players take this game seriously, there’s not competitive scene just a bunch of kids trying hard with builds that carry them, that’s all sadly.

To be honest as a player and also as viewer there’s not reason to watch or play gw2 anymore, chat is the only reason why half of the people watch it and that’s so sad.

What else can we say… this game is ded.

The thing with druids atm is either nerf the heal or the pets, because having such great heals in a short cooldown is not cool when you have a little kittening animal hitting you the whole time and doing more dmg than a thief.

Any good/decent druid knows you can have your pet with 10s quickness and 25 might everytime plus heals and interrupts? yes please.

The changes in paper are good but it needs consistency.

Do the same every two weeks and the game could be enjoyable again.

imo thief was always the key to bring balance to the meta, once they removed them from meta the game has been more and more boring.
There’s not point of watching a match anymore, everybody has too much sustain and aoe spam there isn’t a single fight where you can see what’s happening with all the aoe thing and stuff.

What thief can do atm? +1 and decaps that’s a fact and no class will ever surpass this ability not even rev. That’s the only way thief is viable and as you can see no team will ever use a thief in this meta because you can counter it easily.

Also I agree with you that the main problem is rev, it’s literally thief 2.0 so why would you use a 1.0 version when you can upgrade to the 2.0 which is better and strong.

Rev is the new thief, while rev exists other roaming classes will be worse same as thief did time ago, the problem is that thief was always a fast and SQUISHY class but rev is fast strong and has one of the best sustain in the game.

You need to adapt to your ping.

I’ve played since start with 150-190 ping s/d thief, I have to think twice as fast as any other guy with 40-60 ping, I have to guess what people will do before I react because the delay is a fact.

Once you get it the rest is up to you, I’ve never considered my “ping” as an excuse but as an attribute.

People who play at 40-60 ping will tell you that it’s impossible to play in a competitive way, that’s false I’ve beaten many top players 1v1 and many top teams in my 3 years with my 180 ping so it’s all depends in your own skill imo.

do you even read?
The guy said “viable” no competitve.

D/P is without doubts the choice for high level tournaments/scenarios followed by staff then s/d.

One can make competitive any set if it is good enough at it imo.

I feel bad for EU tho.

The mightstacking one is the best, once you master all your bursts (timing very important) and rotations you’re invincible in 1v1 and do really well in 1v2.

Staff/GS is too strong for mobility/stun and damage.

how much did anet pay you?

don’t expect anything tbh, it’s anet what we talking about.

The thing about necro is that anet keeps making them easier and easier.

First was dumbfire then fear chains and now chill, everyone of them is kittening passive, they don’t have to do anything really, dumbfire is in AA fear from rune and boon convert chill from whatever kittening way you use…

I think is time for anet to stop making this class a joke and get serious Kappa.

either nerf chill damage or their propagation, having both is too strong imo.

is this serious or troll? because reapers are the hard counter to druids, the amount of chill and condis they put is insane.

All you have to do as a reaper is avoid the celestial form #5 and the pet burst and even so you can still win easily vs a druid.

Daharahj.1325:

Elxdark.9702:

It’s clearly a bug, waiting for a fix asap.

Let me guess, another “ranger main”?

No but I do play ranger a lot and if you can’t see how wrong and strong is this “new” regenration then there’s no point of talking about this.

It’s clearly a bug, waiting for a fix asap.