Guild Wars 2

Puck.9612:

And that means all I do is zerg? Logic.
Also you might want to take a look at the build I posted in that thread. I’ve used that 900 range build to kill longbow rangers plenty of times. In fact I’ve easily killed longbow rangers more times than I can count on every single profession. It helps to not be terrible at the game.

And that is the point: Most rangers are terrible because they don’t really need to play. Doesn’t mean that no one can kill them, just that those few rangers who know how to play have got really powerful tools because the average stand still ranger demanded buffs (mind you, LB was in need of a buff, I just don’t think that it went the right way).
A friend of mine who’s on a server currently opposing us tries hard to kill me, he might actually learn ranger because of it ;)

Zero Day.2594:

Pretty sure P/D is also left unhindered for the most part… And EVERYONE loves P/D…

I said it: If my power thief gets nerfed into oblivion I’ll become the most annoying condi thief anyone has ever seen. I’ll have to beat the shadow trap condi thief I met earlier and second child, which will be really hard, but I stick to my promises.

Lenaios.2781:

That’s the whole point of counterplay. Like if you destroy mesmer clones, the shatters wont come as strong or are almost useless and so forth. Also stop treating stealth as thief profession mechanic because it’s not. you get bonuses to it from traits sure, but so do others. Crying about this change is like crying that thief can steal the boons that PU gives.

No, it isn’t, you can’t take away guards heal, burst and aegis with one skill. And hinder him to use any of his skills for 6 secs afterwards. It’s okay if you know nothing about thief, but just believe those who wrote in this thread and explained why it would be a bad idea.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

I am not sure what you are about in your post. All I said was that reveal is such a hardcounter to thieves just cos anet used the same effect designed to put cd on entering stealth and gave it other classes/traps to help people who complained about perma invi thieves.

What I meant is: Thief is designed to get all good things with stealth, you can’t just take the invisibility away as you’re removing all other stuff with this as well. I think to change that the whole class would need to be redesigned.

A friendly bump as the forum today is like any newspaper in which you hope to find worthy news and are bombarded with articles about the Kardashians.

Does anyone know how it works EU + NA ? I don’t think we will be able to meet in the same guild hall, so do we have to do all of this twice?

dreambro.7230:

This has been going over a year and a.net did nothing about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og5xVeA5fcY

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Invisible-Cheater/

You have damage in your combat log, we had none – we were insta killed and had no idea why.

That is a pretty old bug it has been around before the falling damage stair bug had been fixed – We had that too on Gunnars Hold, 3 months ago (I think) was when 3 of us were insta killed and had nothing in our combat log. But it happens more often – I just don’t really pay attention to it.

Extreme.8350:

All ranged classes already shut down thief with 1 abilility big deal.
u hit them so hard they have to reset the fight in meanwhile u kill all his friends thats why more than 1 theif on team is detrimental.
I have yet to see anyone slot in reveal skill just to kill 1 theif.

Oh I’ve met a few rangers who did – and it worked.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

It all boils down to anet’s laziness to implement another stealth debuff that only removes *in*visibility ? but not the effects associated with stealth. With that current reveal skills wouldn’t be such a hard counter to thief, they could even give longer invisibility debuff duration.

Engies could sprinkle some glitter on thieves just like witcher :P

How should that work if everything is tied to stealth? It doesn’t.
I just come from a fight with a condi thief (meh) who put 3!!!!!!! stealth traps into all camps he either had or wanted to cap – there was nothing I could do as a power stealth thief (other than ask for help in map chat) – I don’t consider this guy to be a thief.
There is already a lot of counter to stealth/damage from stealth actually, engis have got either shield or their toolbelt shield, they can also shrink and take no damage, they can also make themselves invisible and have got access to a lot of AoE all good weapons against a thief. You just need to know when to use them.

Or if everything fails, just spend your gold on stealth traps.

Fenju.2953:

I see your point there, but I think in reallity it really takes away our reposition and backstab ability. Every other skill we have is still there,

No. I’m a backstab thief, thus my whole build is around stealth. Every thief I know has got at least 2 points in SA, which only work with stealth. Almost every thief I know has got SR equipped, cooldown 1 min, I think, will be destroyed by this trait. So condi remove is destroyed, defense is destroyed plus you have the full cooldown on that skill. If you have the full SA line every trait you have in there will be destroyed. And that is cruicial. The remaining skills are few like I just said.

Fenju.2953:

Or just focus on avoiding taking damage for the time reveal is on you, which against grenade/bombs spamming engies is already sth. we are doing.

Your only chance is to try to port, the engi has also a toolbelt with magnet and turrets which immobilize and a range, I don’t know was it 1200 always, 900 after the changes and 1200 when traited?

Fenju.2953:

But I agree with you that it’s kind of questionable that engi was the class that got this trait, because as you stated they already are doing quite well against thieves and traits that are specifically focused are kind of odd because they’re pretty situational and therefore most of the time irrelevant.

I really should have a look at the engi’s traits, I just know of this. I just had the impression that all that made them win was their supply crate which just got nerfed and that they’re not that powerful without that crate and that is kind of sad.

Anyway: No class should have the option to completely shut down another for 6+ seconds and make them waste all their skills just trying to survive. If that really was neccessary, then anet should go back to the drawing boards and redesign that class.

So, do we still need “favour” then to build guild catas and buff keeps/camps? And will there be guild missions that can be done in wvw? As if not you’re further forcing people to do PvE.

Yamsandjams.3267:

That’s why you can’t, for instance, have a fire sigil proc off 5 separate mobs at the same time even if you crit them all with the same ability. It will only ever occur on one because the ability is on cooldown as soon as it does.

I made you a screenshot actually and sigil of fire does aoe damage, In that case I was doing damage against a single target as it was a backstab but the aoe hurt another npc.
Just to the sigil of fire, it’s still unclear how many stealthed enemies will be affected by this shiny new trait. I guess up to five if all of them are hit at the same time.

Fenju.2953:

I really don’t get why there is so much fuzz about this one trait. I think it was pretty obvious that the perma-stealth-evasiveness of thieves would get some kind of counter.

The WvW Roaming scene will appreciate it I think. Especially in WvW roaming the whole Stealth ‘n Run when at a loss made it pretty frustrating for other proffessions I guess and for thieves I think it was a bit too forgiving. Atleast with this now you have to be more careful who you are facing and who’s arround.

But then again, not every opponent you face will be an engi and vice versa for engies too. So for an engi its a pretty huge investment to spent an point on this trait only to mainly counter one specific proffession (Mesmers / Rangers are not that reliant on stealth) which in WvW isn’t that much of a deal because they can change traits on the fly, but for sPvP purposes i can’t really seee them using this trait that often. Maybe as counterplay when the enemy team has sth like mes,thief,ranger.

Imagine I get a skill to disable all your skills, minus #1 and maybe a teleport for 6 seconds plus the cooldown of the skill I just destroyed – how would that be for you?
Something like this shouldn’t be in game. I don’t know if engis even need a counter as they’re doing that much aoe damage, that they’re likely hitting a stealthed thief anyway. And that is the counter that is already in game.
And because of that: give engis something useful for their class, I mean it. Something that helps them against every enemy, not just other engis, rangers, mesmers and most of all thieves as that class is build around stealth.
I don’t get why it isn’t obvious to everybody that this is game breaking.

Daniel Handler.4816:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Block
Thieves can’t have cooldowns on weapon skills. This trait increases cooldown.

But this is in no way equal. Because a single trait invalidated by a mechanic is not the same as a mechanic invalidated by the a single trait. Engie’s essentially got a diamond skin level trait that just needs to be balanced correctly.

Ok, how about steal, SR and all other skills we use? They should be on extended cooldown with this trait? (Haven’t fought against any mesmer 1 vs 1 lately)
Thanks for explaining.
Didn’t get the diamondskin thing though.

You could compare the Engi trait with: Take away aegis from guard, deny his burst, steal his skill (SR in case of thief which has the usual cooldown but was useless) deny his heal and deny his condi removal – for 6 seconds. No class can survive that.

Lenaios.2781:

Maybe thieves will now understand what all the mesmers were qq’ing about thief
ignoring grandmaster trait by just being a thief.

I don’t, which did we ignore and how?

Donari.5237:

What exactly do you need a steady supply of spirit shards (previously, skill points) for? Serious question. Do they actually get used up that fast that it is crucial to get one every time you ding a level?

Superior siege blueprints. The price of ACs has risen 5 silver the past few weeks. And I haven’t looked up rams.

Don’t you, forget about [Teef]

(bump)

Foefaller.1082:

To be fair, SRing in front of an Engineer was already pretty risky, since you just gave them a target for Supply Drop, grenades and the Six knows what else.

I main Engineer, and I can’t begin to count the number of thieves I’ve downed by unloading all my AoE on top of an active SR field.

Since I’m smart I usually use SR when the engi has already popped his SC. If you guys just need to aoe SR now, then I don’t have a chance to time SR against an engi.

Foefaller.1082:

Personally, I’ve always thought Engineers already had an advantage against thieves.This new trait only solidifies it.

I think so too, you already were hard to beat (I just learned it to be honest) so this trait is completely unneccessary and like I said before (andmultiple times on these forums already) – no class should have the ability to disable everything of another class, especially not for 6 seconds. This is really bad design.

Rin.1046:

As a thief main, I am not worried about this trait. Its only 6 seconds of revealed and you have a window of 14 seconds to burst them down. Any decent thief, with a strong build, can get a few backstabs in in that time.

If it is too strong I am sure Anet will tweak the numbers a bit, but personally I do not think it will be as strong as many are making out. IMO, I think most of the complaints about this trait are simply a knee jerk reaction from those who rely on stealth far too much. Stealth should be a tool, not a crutch.

Edit: And can we stop with this silly idea that Lock On will shut the entire shadow arts line down? Chances are most thieves traiting into SA are going to take shadows embrace, shadow protector and shadow’s rejuvination. As Lock On will only trigger when you are already in stealth, you can still benefit from the initial application of stealth standpoint. When you enter stealth, you will remove a condi, gain regen and heal for one tick of shadow’s rejuv. And you will likely get 1 tick of extra initiative. So the only think you are missing out on is a backstab and maybe a tick or two of SR. Its not that big a deal, and does not equate to the shutting down of the entire line. It is merely limiting it for 6 seconds.

Revealed destroys (SA/CS line): condi removal, regen, burst. So by forcing it unto a thief all his skills are shut down – he’s a free lootbag. 6 sec is really long, it’s 3 sec now, 4 in pvp. Only S/D thieves who usually don’t rely on stealth could “deal with it”.
And one second of regen and condi removal often is nothing against an engi who’s already a strong counter against thieves, but you as a main thief know that.

Every class that would be “disabled” for 6 seconds in wvw/pvp would be dead.
There isn’t even a “maybe they’ll tweak it” traits like this are a really really really bad idea.

Strategist.6132:

Right now Steal is 35 CD, when traited it is
- 30% from the Trickery line
- 20% from Sleight of Hand
Which makes it ~18 seconds if I am correct.

No, it’s 21 sec min already.

Oh that’s a long story, I don’t care about the loot, also not about ultimate dominator.
When the ferocity change hit last year I have been unable to run with the zerg anymore so I was standing around in towers for a few months. Every other person would’ve rerolled another class, I couldn’t. So I became a roamer (10 kills per day woohooo).
A few months later I started to join zergs with my valk/zerker thief again – a really bad idea usually, but it works, even frontline with the right commanders. And our server isn’t underpopulated – we have got queues for the maps I’m on.
A few weeks ago we fought hard to get in first and I killed 500 guys within one day
I just want to be useful actually, not so sure if this nerf was really neccessary.

The withdraw had to happen because it’s a trick now and we’ve got a trait that reduces the recharge of tricks by 20%
Don’t really get the nerf of choking gas though and it’s 4 seconds on my short bow right now, so I’m confused. Would be ok if it would also cost less initative as that is what I’m spamming in zerg fights.

Dondagora.9645:

It means before the skill was doing more damage in PvE than it was PvP. Now they do the same, finding some middle ground between the PvE and PvP damage.

Yeah, someone already answered it and I spent some time on google to find it was/is 33% reduced in pvp which I didn’t know.

EremiteAngel.9765:

steal cooldown incredibly low when traited…nothing nerfed…

SA: when in stealth, gain initiative regen health cure condi stealth longer reduce dmg in stealth…

I don’t know how to kill a thief anymore

Learn to play =)
Or roll an engi.

See, I always thought I was stupid because I just smash things when doing hearts and stuff, I don’t even bother to read the description anymore as I don’t seem to get it anyway. Then I thought maybe in my native language it would be better, but no (I tried). And I guess it’s just the way it’s written for the most part. Other is “Deliver these items to npc xy” and you get no clue where this npc can be found, there’s a group of 20 standing around and all look the same and somewhere far away among 5 other same looking npcs there’s the one you need – it’s far more efficent to just smash things.

Maybe unsplit means that it won’t inflict vulnerability anymore, but in the end: who knows.
“We will give you a new combat system on June 23, what will change, who knows?!”

AikijinX.6258:

I Hope the CnD change is not affected in WvW. Cloak An Dagger: This ability has been un-split and its damage normalized. Damage of this ability has decreased by ~17% in PvE and increased by 25% in PvP.

What does unsplit mean in that context?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/June-23-Specialization-Changes/
.

Yamsandjams.3267:

Because that’s how ICDs work. When they proc, they go on cooldown and they won’t function again. As soon as you reveal one target, the ability goes on cooldown, and it won’t proc again until the cooldown expires.

That’s why you can’t, for instance, have a fire sigil proc off 5 separate mobs at the same time even if you crit them all with the same ability. It will only ever occur on one because the ability is on cooldown as soon as it does.

Ok, thanks for the explanation.

But also:

Trait doesn’t state if it is single target or aoe.

that.

Btw: they changed the upcoming traits for thieves. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/June-23-Specialization-Changes

But I love ma backstabbing teef and he’s about to die…

Hey, the forum bug has been fixed..

EremiteAngel.9765:

finally some justice.
well done anet.
I suggest allowing more classes the reveal stealth ability that you have so lovingly given to engineers.

And I thought I had just taught you more about this game but you still seem to advocate the easy skill spamming way – a pity!
Actually is, I knew the expansion and all that would come with it would be bad and I guess june 23 is the day when I will uninstall this game cause I just can’t take the stupidity anymore.

Yeah, so you can’t backstab an engi anymore,so the burst is gone, and better don’t use SR

Yamsandjams.3267:

Lock-on has an ICD of 20 seconds, so you can only practically reveal one target at a time, meaning it might not be so useful.

Mind you, stuck up WvW zergs commanders might actually want to slot a handful of engineers now to reveal multiple targets on a stealth push, since revealing 5-10 people would be much better than revealing some random dude that might not even be next to the zerg.

How can you reveal only one? You can stealth 5 people with SR, don’t know how many with mass invisibility and you can usually hit 5 people with most aoe – and it doesn’t really matter because I’m usually alone, so.. 20 seconds is really short, 6 seconds revealed is really long, I already struggle with the 4 sec in pvp because stealth is my defense and everything else, because anet has designed it this way. I hope for a counter trait to this trait but in the end: it’s a really stupid and lazy idea to put stuff like that into this game, they should’ve learned from sic em and goggles already, but no they took it to the next level instead of inventing something intelligent.

Edit: Bad English day again

Levetty.1279:

Please hold back from releasing these Anet, they are not ready. Just from what you have shown the traits are all over the place and there is a massive gap forming between classes.

+1

Oh my, anet: You guys basically forced thieves to be stealthed for all the good stuff (might stacking, condi removal, regen and burst) and you give 2 classes (who can stealth themselves) the ability to destroy all of that – GG, anet, GG. And I also wonder how pushing into a zerg with mass invisibility will turn out.

EremiteAngel.9765:

snip

I think you got my point Thieves need to time all or most (depending on the build) skills, otherwise they’re dead.

When I created my thief I was “This is it, I will never have another character” but created them nonetheless to learn some of their mechanics (I think I will never go around to learn all of them). So in order to play thief I need to know my own and the other classes’ mechanics, I guess that’s different for most other classes – and maybe that’s what makes thief so difficult and in the end dangerous.

But I have to say that all guys who write on this forum are really nice =)

sander.5830:

Fyi this was just to show how broken and boring the match up system currently is/ can be.
Getting Dev attention in WvW threads is neigh impossible tough.

I’m on gunnars too and currently farming for truffles.

It’s not really about who’s first now, just that I don’t think anyone expected it.

Arrowcarts haven’t always been like this, eles haven’t always been like this, ranger haven’t always been like this. Back in the day there were safe spots for siege and some friends and I had fun trying each place and sharing our findings – no kidding.
When we came to a heavily sieged tower we had to find a way around it: Treb behind the door, ok, let’s try catas, get cannons down with balli, build catas, find a way into the tower while under heavy AC fire. That was what it was about – that was strategy, nowadays it’s karma-blob-train.

I don’t have anything against blobs, don’t get me wrong but it shouldn’t be that any blob can have any T3 tower/keep within 2 mins max.

I think indoor ACs are more or less fine, they should be able to destroy siege, not every tower already has got cannons, mortars and oil and not every tower has got a spot for a balli that will reach rams.

On the other hand I love how Piken is steam rolling T1 this week.

Go Piken, Go Piken! ;)

Umm, I hope this isn’t against the forum rules -just realized it.

Anyway, I do love underdogs winning against stronger opponents and this is one of the weeks in which it’s theoretically possible.

Personal story gives a lot of exp too.

EremiteAngel.9765:

I am not a Master level Necro, but those thieves that killed me were not Master level thieves either. Thieves just hold too many cards against every class except Guardians.

Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh2_WxuNUKs

Had to leave earlier, so I just flipped through your video and couldn’t really write to it,but now I can:

(One thing in general: you seem to randomly use your skills, works against non pros but not against those who know what they’re doing)

Thief against who you lost(I guess): The fields are good, he failed to interrupt you for whatever reason, you hadn’t had him in target when he popped his SR and you wasted your fear before he used his SR. And after that you think he’s gone and you had 2 npcs against you “but it’s just npcs!!” yeah, but one of them blinds (next outgoing attack misses) and the other immobilizes. Winning a fight against multiple npcs and a player is really hard.

The other 2 thief fights: You won them anyway but failed to time your fear again.

I like your movement but like I said in the beginning: You seem to randomly press buttons. If I miss either my one interrupt (the stuff I steal from you (D/D thief)) or get feared out of my SR, I’m toast against a necro.

Can we please just leave thief as it is – I’m so tired of the constant “NERF NERF NERF” threads.
And I can’t even argue about it as I haven’t mastered any other classes, so I can’t say whether or not the “learning curve for thief is exceptionally unfair towards new players”
My friend became a good enough teef within 2 months.

Basandra Skye.4031:

Maps that prompt the volunteer option are maps below a minimum number of players, and giving you the option to move out of the map allows the server to collapse that instance and reclaim system resources once the last person leaves.

I doubt that as it’s still an independend server.

party buddy.4956:

Have you ever “volunteered” to switch maps, and actually found your self on a better map?

Yes, I was once snowtruffel farming and stood at the very same spot but the mushroom popped up 4 times, I had 20 truffles after 20 mins.

But: Never click on that thing when you’re at a world boss – never !

" I need more coffee and popcorn "
Jana

@ Elden: If you think I was referring to you: I wasn’t =)

Just wanted to voice my opinion on the topic, before anet comes to the conclusion that the majority of players wants a delayed rebuild of LA for no reason ;)

It’s been too long – I don’t want a lore or anything around it because I don’t care of the destruction anymore which has been 14 months ago and none of the LS had anything to do with it, so in the end it’s more or less just a gigantic ruin without a story, why invent one now?

TheMurkMuffin.8213:

Jana.6831:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Um, it lasts 6 seconds and takes 80 to CD.

Good to know, thank you =)

I feel like you provoked this response, Jana. :P

No, I didn’t – I have my own ranger, just too lazy to play him =)
Guess I confused the duration with necro’s Lich form, but then again, I’m also too lazy to play my necro ;)

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Um, it lasts 6 seconds and takes 80 to CD.

Good to know, thank you =)