Guild Wars 2

Skullface.7293:

I am currently in Ruby division and have a win rate of 80%. The build you are playing aswell as player skill makes a difference.

Also, most of my games are by doing solo queues.

Coming from a top 100 players for more than 3 years, your MMR is top 10% and stable.

You can lose some games but your MMR will stay intact.

So… enjoy your easy soloq ride while it last. MMR vs PiPs range should never happen again.

Jak Shadow.2864:

foogison.5067:

I agree 100%, players stuck in MMR hell will have an artificially low MMR upon start of season 3 which is not fair at all

If such a thing does exist perhaps it is fair given what they may have been through in Season 2.

Nah, it’s not fair. The MatchMaking of season 2 don’t give you a fair chance to raise your MMR.

To get a fair MMR system:

1- Reset the MMR before league.
2- New player should get 0 MMR and work it like everybody did at first. (nothing is fair when you got average MMR and a new player show in your team that don’t know what rotation is… simply rekking your own MMR in the process)
3- Match MMR team vs MMR team, if not… there is no FAIR chance for people to work their MMR.
4- Extend the league to half a year or more.
5- Separated the Skill based Rank system, with the GRIND need to get REWARDS.
6- Give negative MMR to the highest dishonor stacked account. (need to put people who dced 3 times a night in a different queue than everybody else, with those who rage quit and AFK or trolls or trash talk)

Yes it will get hard for new player (its why they give average mmr to new player) to come into a competitive rank system like this… but who cares? They can play unranked to get good.

Giving flower to new players to destroy the MMR of your veteran is not good either. Because the retention rate of new players in this game is REALLY low. You need to make sure that those who like your game enough to put hundreds of hours into it are treat fairly (and not like it is, right now).

eva lin mcdowl.3978:

But for this season they reset everyone’s MMR. I’m curious if our MMR will once again be reset for season 3 or if our current divisions this season will grant us a different MMR for next season(as suggested in several other threads)??

Please show me where you did get that information. MMR was not reset at the start of the season.

If they reset MMR, they need to match team MMR vs team MMR, if not… we will have the same problem that we have right now.

The under average would have less chance to wins matches than the above average MMR.

Simply put:

A system design to punish players that are average or under average MMR. Because it put them at a disadvantage over those who are above average. This is unfair because under average MMR show that they need more HELP than the above average MMR to stay competitive. Actually… the best got easier ride from the system than the baddest.

In truly competitive system, the more you are good, the harder it should get.

In our season 2 amateur design league, the more you are bad, the harder it get.

The worse, is when the system decide you are BAD. (Give you low MMR) But actually, you are good. It could happen on luck based match-making slacked by the all godly “queue time” that can put good players with low mmr players because no others are available (into that pip range). Nobody (including Chaith) can carry a team of a 4v5 matches with a 100% success rate (considering the 5 are good enough).

It’s either pure GRIND based PIPS system.

Or going back to MMR vs MMR with a RANK given on who you wins and who you lose like it was in 2013-2014 (and like it is in all PVP multiplayer rank system).

I prefer to play into a CERTIFIED truly tested universal ranked system (implemented into all AAA pvp games), than some bad thoughts out rank system like we have in season 2.

Many players are like me. Many did actually left gw2 pvp for other PVP games because they felt the competitive nature of gw2 is going down the drain… and this had happens in 2014. Since then, the cycle continue… new serious pvp players start to play. Like the game, but found that it’s unfair and not competitive (grind based and not win base), so they left the boat too.

It’s why Many PRO players are disgusted about the CASUAL aspect of GW2 SPVP.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

If you live in the EU these kinds of threats fall under their new anti-terror cyber laws. You can report these to your local law enforcement and they will force Anet to reveal their identity and arrest them. These new laws carry a 1-2 year prison sentence.

If you are in the US or elsewhere you are out of luck though.

Canada got that kind of law as well.

We don’t need to buy a lawyer for it. A police call is enough.

But I am not sure that law would extend to other countries…

Salamander.2504:

Jourdelune.7456:

snip

He’s referring to babayum’s post being sarcastic, not yours. And I agree that poster was likely being sarcastic.

Thank you.

I don’t have time to run multiple account, anyway.

Knight In Shining Armor.1708:

Jourdelune.7456:

Last season it was smurfing.

Now it’s farming bad players.

Here is the best answer (i am completely ironic) to your question:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Why-do-skilled-people-make-alt-accounts/first#post6072001

“babayum.1895
My main is in legendary eu
I created this account just so i can kill noobs in amber emerald and sapphire, yes it’s true and idc its fun. When you slaughter them 1vs2 all game on their close node you just have this big fat smile on your face, just how it is mates.
The problem is that now this account is almost in diamond and opponents are getting better so i have to create a new f2p account soon to slaughter the noobs in the future. Ah well its fast to get to rank 20 nways.”

But please… consider doing the same. (not for the same reason)

If you have enough game to get good rotation, map awereness and 1v1 skills… do a second F2P account.

You will be surprised by how easier it is to do than your main account. Even without HoTs.

New account got better MMR than average, so your team will carry you until you hit legendary. (more chance for that than not, because wins streak will add up to your win/lose ratio that will always give you better team mate than other team)

If you are unlucky (lose streak), reroll a new account.

So how can we called this cheeze tactics?

Smurfing —> Giganting new account.

Abusing new account policy…

Hmm… i am bad at naming how to abuse system.

I am still Diamond, I still queue with my team. But I don’t soloq anymore. Well… perhaps I should try a new F2P account, to raise ANET stats of new player!! (free to boost stat up with some door to abuse system gift from Anet, cheaper than spending 200k on marketing).

This entire thing sounds quite sarcastic. Not sure he’s joking. Maybe I’m reading too much into it, and this really is the mindset of your typical PVP’er.

I don’t know who you are.

Are you below average MMR? Do it, it will be easier for you.

Are you top MMR? Do it, because you don’t want to screw your own MMR.

Are you a twitch streamer and need more money because you are too lazy to work? Do spot advertising saying you do amber to legendary stream with a F2P account. (make sure you play some games off twitch to raise your MMR on it with your best friends)

Everyone got some reason why they take a F2P account.

But actually, I am most of the time, completely genuine in what I write (unless I do or ).

To make sure I am not a double face… I did add this: (not for the same reason) into the quote. So you can find new way of abusing new ACCOUNT INFLATED MMR for your own need.

tldr; Not all PRO players do it for the same reason.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Jourdelune.7456:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Arcade.8901:

Jourdelune.7456:

Hahahah…

When you get a new BOX (play HOT), you have more chance to go to Legendary than if you have a main BOX with thousands of matches…

Buy to WIN!!!

More seriously… the MMR just for your TEAM is so bad.

Please get rid of MMR entirely if you don’t want to pair MMR vs MMR team.

So we can have pro players QQ on forums about playing with bad players instead of saying the game is completely right (to farms 80% of the players bases because they are on the top 20% MMR).

So grind based ladder !? Why not just pure MMR based ladder ? Cmon.

Random team generation within pip range is not grind.

It’s still grind if you need WINS to advance the ladder.

A real skill based ladder board don’t work on counting wins. It work on giving more rank points if you win versus a better rank than yours.

For exemple, into any Elo or Glicko2 system… 1 guy with 10k games (like me) can be position on the skill board at 400. While a better guy like Chaith, can be position at 20 on the board with 3k games.

Actually, at the end of the season, we will have hundreds of legendary players that don’t play into the top 200 nor top 500 players. But still they will get there with enough grind of wins.

Outstanding players will get there with around 150 matches, Average player with 500 matches and really bad (or unlucky players) with 1000.

But over 2 month, grinding 1000 game is too much for most of the casual gw2 base players (we put 10 hours a week into it, around… right?).

Wait, what? What do you use to determine if you deserve to advance if not wins?

And how can you grind such a thing? I mean sure you can asked to be carried but that is always going to be on the table anyway. But seriously, I do not consider ppl grinding lottery tickets to be sane. How many have won the lottery that way anyway?

Explain it to me how a solo player of Amber level is suppose to make it to higher level in a random generated team MM? Ok, he gets lucky, once, twice, 10 times? You think he can reasonably keep getting carried without losses making him step back? What kind of “luck” and “odds” are we talking about in your opinion?

All this sounds more like an excuse to keep your privileges. The way you seem to speak, just give legendary title to the highest 500 MMR ppl via mail without them having to lift a finger and assume all other players didn’t got better and be done with it. It’s ridiculous.

Well… wanna have a valid answer or simply kitten on me?

Here is how work all competitive skill based leaderboard on Earth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glicko_rating_system

And Before you say it’s only good for single player game…

Google for all Major PVP team based games, they all have their implementation of it.

Why trying to re-invent the wheel, when the wheel is good enough?

It’s because the old senior pvp game dev left Anet and the little guyz wanna get their own “new” things into it.

“Wait, what? What do you use to determine if you deserve to advance if not wins? "

It’s win but versus WHO. A win versus you give +3 rank, a win versus chaith give +30 rank. Now, next match you are pair with your MMR + 30 and roll again…

With that system, if you loose at 400 versus The Abjured, you still gain RANK.

It so real… that it’s current in the game.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

This is how they do MMR.

Not perfect, but way better than grinds wins versus ANYONE to Legendary to show skill.

“And how can you grind such a thing? I mean sure you can asked to be carried but that is always going to be on the table anyway. But seriously, I do not consider ppl grinding lottery tickets to be sane. How many have won the lottery that way anyway? "

Why do you need to grind to show you are GOOD?

Skill based leaderboard show you are good.
Grind based league show you got time to play games.

“Explain it to me how a solo player of Amber level is suppose to make it to higher level in a random generated team MM? Ok, he gets lucky, once, twice, 10 times? You think he can reasonably keep getting carried without losses making him step back? What kind of “luck” and “odds” are we talking about in your opinion?"

You got confused.

Random team generation into a grinding league is better than using MMR.

But having a real leaderboard glicko based, you don’t need to grind it.

You can play 100 games and be top 10. You can play 10000 and be 22227­.

“All this sounds more like an excuse to keep your privileges. The way you seem to speak, just give legendary title to the highest 500 MMR ppl via mail without them having to lift a finger and assume all other players didn’t got better and be done with it. It’s ridiculous.”

It’s your affirmations that are ridiculous.

MMR reset is important before each start of a season. Season should be long enough to get a stabilized version of your MMR. 6 months would be great.

This is a skill based ranking system.

Now for your rewards (title, items or whatever useless thing you want), separated grinding rewards and skill based leaderboard to have a great system.

So people come play to grind rewards and got SKILL RANKED BASED accordingly.

En passant, faire chier le peuple sans jamais ramasser la marde, fait que tu sens mauvais en criss.

Last season it was smurfing.

Now is farming bad players.

Here is the best answer (i am completely ironic) to your question:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Why-do-skilled-people-make-alt-accounts/first#post6072001

“babayum.1895
My main is in legendary eu
I created this account just so i can kill noobs in amber emerald and sapphire, yes it’s true and idc its fun. When you slaughter them 1vs2 all game on their close node you just have this big fat smile on your face, just how it is mates.
The problem is that now this account is almost in diamond and opponents are getting better so i have to create a new f2p account soon to slaughter the noobs in the future. Ah well its fast to get to rank 20 nways.”

But please… consider doing the same.

If you have enough game to get good rotation, map awereness and 1v1 skills… do a second F2P account.

You will be surprised by how easier it is to do than your main account. Even without HoTs.

New account got better MMR than average, so your team will carry you until you hit legendary. (more chance for that than not, because wins streak will add up to your win/lose ratio that will always give you better team mate than other team)

If you are unlucky (lose streak), reroll a new account.

So how can we called this cheeze tactics?

Smurfing —> Giganting new account.

Abusing new account policy…

Hmm… i am bad at naming how to abuse system.

I am still Diamond, I still queue with my team. But I don’t soloq anymore. Well… perhaps I should try a new F2P account, to raise ANET stats of new player!! (free to boost stat up with some door to abuse system gift from Anet, cheaper than spending 200k on marketing).

Agemnon.4608:

Chaith.8256:

fedegf.6534:

And btw most of them, like Caithe and such, they’re teenagers, so whatever, it’s ok.

What the hell is this post. Lmao. So much wat. You think I have any pride in my casualwars2 ranked queue badge, yeah, nope.

What can you learn from what is said here? Top players think on such a higher level that they don’t even care what other players think. Keep in mind that a legendary badge and title is the ultimate prize during leagues.

In other words what Chaith basically said was the play and execution and refinement of skill itself are the true prizes while the symbols are merely symbols.

No.

It’s because too many legendary players are not good enough to be compared to top players.

With the skill based leaderboard we had 2 years ago (kitten, I am old), Chaith was top 100 or less… meaning it was in the best 100 on North America.

Now, today… he only wear a Legendary batches that most people with time can have. Most people that played 2 years ago, already moved on. Chaith wins ESL PRO League to show his skill, not grind based rank leaderboard.

Memory lapses from 6 month ago.

Thank you,

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Arcade.8901:

Jourdelune.7456:

Hahahah…

When you get a new BOX (play HOT), you have more chance to go to Legendary than if you have a main BOX with thousands of matches…

Buy to WIN!!!

More seriously… the MMR just for your TEAM is so bad.

Please get rid of MMR entirely if you don’t want to pair MMR vs MMR team.

So we can have pro players QQ on forums about playing with bad players instead of saying the game is completely right (to farms 80% of the players bases because they are on the top 20% MMR).

So grind based ladder !? Why not just pure MMR based ladder ? Cmon.

Random team generation within pip range is not grind.

It’s still grind if you need WINS to advance the ladder.

A real skill based ladder board don’t work on counting wins. It work on giving more rank points if you win versus a better rank than yours.

For exemple, into any Elo or Glicko2 system… 1 guy with 10k games (like me) can be position on the skill board at 400. While a better guy like Chaith, can be position at 20 on the board with 3k games.

Actually, at the end of the season, we will have hundreds of legendary players that don’t play into the top 200 nor top 500 players. But still they will get there with enough grind of wins.

Outstanding players will get there with around 150 matches, Average player with 500 matches and really bad (or unlucky players) with 1000.

But over 2 month, grinding 1000 game is too much for most of the casual gw2 base players (we put 10 hours a week into it, around… right?).

Silverkey.2078:

Good Tofu.9376:

Salamander.2504:

I disagree—we know they’ve already come so close in the past. Remember the post-june 23rd patch, post sept. 29 patch (d/d ele nerf), pre-hot balance? There was a solid ~1 month of fantastic balance.

Not sure, if I remember correctly I saw just as many moaning threads then as I do now.

At this time, all classes had a spot on the meta, some with even more than one build (burn guard or bunker guard), only ranger was a bit weak and D/D ele a bit strong. I haven’t played the game since the beginning, but for me this was a very fun meta.

Now, with elite specs, the balance is much worse, and also, the build diversity is awful. Before HoT, I could play non-meta builds without being a burden for my team. Now, the gap between non-meta and meta has strongly increased, in great part because of the elite spec power creep.

People will always complain, and to be fair, the pre-HoT meta was not perfect. You still could not really play damage elementalist or bunker mesmer (yet), but it was a vastly better one than now.

Look for BOLD.

In 2013, many top 100 players played their own build beating meta build all nights…

This was an ERA where skills was better than META.

Today… they can’t keep that anymore.

Why? Because we had a more balanced game at that time. You could tweak your attributes way more easily (6 rune pieces, jewels, attributes from traits line) and so, it was easier to have many (ten’s of) viable build for a class.

Then… depending on meta and comp, you could tweak a lot your build to make it better. (now you can tweak a bit, not a lot)

Perfect balanced not. But 2013 balanced (except the kitten like dhuumfire) was great because many players could play whatever and still beat meta build with good pilot.

Nice that you like to play DPS druids.

Actually, the healing with the dps is crazy.

But, I would say that scrapper meta build is better for far push at opening.

Because… they can 1v2 long enough. Sure they will kill slower than you, but they will live enough -1 fights to help your team control other nodes.

00000

We are both right. DPS roamer or Bruisers or Bunker all have different rotations and can strat to carry team in soloq. Bunker is harder but bruisers are fine enough.

If you look at meta battle 4 on 5 meta build are bruisers like.

We are into a bruiser meta, not a bunker meta.

With so much condies bunker are less useful for holding point anyway.

0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

The biggest TIP to reach legendary: Play around 500 matches, win 50% of them. It’s easy enough with all those low MMR player in entry tier of each divisions to give you the winstreak to goes further.

Oh… and when your league and ladder is a grinding joke, the top title is a joke too. Don’t take that much to seriously. Grinding to be on TOP is the biggest joke of Anet, ever.

Lexander.4579:

insanemaniac.2456:

Lexander.4579:

insanemaniac.2456:

Ruru.1302:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Dude why are you being so defensive, we are all giving you advices; if you want to improve, please use a meta battle build, ok???

Lmao, I guess the op doesn’t want to beat mesmer after all … LMAO

Ok you know what, if you don’t want to use a Mettabattle build, post a video of your fight against a mesmer, so we can show you your mistake. Like you might have wasted a dodge and the list goes on!!

Post a video and I’ll help you.

Don’t be trying to help people unless you’re legend or at the VERY least high diamond.

Also, I remember playing against you for like 3 matches on my way up the ladder. Simply put, you shouldn’t be in the position to give anyone advice.

this guy thinks a grind race is indicative of skill

LOL

didnt know that playing 100 matches counts as grinding

along comes someone in legendary who played 500 matches and sucks and gives advice and then what?

legendary in 500 matches isnt that bad either, some people get bad luck climbing the ladder but they still climb instead of going on forums and whining about “always bad team”

500 match in 30 dayz.

It’s 16.6666666 match a day.

We play average 3 match a hour.

This means kitten (five.five kitten filter) hour grind per day.

Well… this is almost a second job.

But what you didn’t understand here… is that, anyone can grind games like you did… but not anyone can play matches versus top players all day long.

But well, thank you to show us all that the Grinding Ranking system of Gw2 is badly interpret by bad players (or dev fanboi) as Prestige.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Legend-Queue-Times/page/2#post6046284

It’s ridiculous, because by the end of season 2… many grinders would be getting there anyway.

All ranking system that only count win or lose are bad. You need to compare that win or lose versus WHO.

Like the old leaderboard system was. I assure everyone that 90% of the legendary players would never be top 200 on the old leaderboard system.

eureeka.5368:

Seems to me mesmers are the most resilient and creative bunch in this game! They have had interrupt build nerfed to nothing, they have had crono bunker nerfed to nothing. And still they manage to have people qq about yet another build. Condi mesmer is nothing new, yea they get 1 more rotation with continuum shift, but most will save for 2x moa especially if the other team has a necro. I love that necro has yet another hard counter as they cried ele out of buisness. Im sure they will try to cry crono nerf now. I will collect your tears, they taste so salty

Seriously, in 4 years… it’s the first time a MAIN THIEF QQ about MESMER being OP.

Is there any other thief that want to “second” the OP grinder post?

You are right.

League should only be queuable with a full premade.

At Diamond and +, you should put a RANK number from 1 (the best) to X (the worst).

First week, some diamond would be top 100.
4 week, some diamond would be top 500.
8 week, some diamond would be top 1000.

This show that League are Grind and not Skill based.

At least, the competitive spvp with rewards would give incentive to create party.

brannigan.9831:

… That’s how tons of bads lucked there way to diamond and legendary last season through sheer grinding.

IMO season 2 is worse than season 1.

We didn’t heard much complains about match-making in season 1. It was all about the PRO abusing mechanic (smurfing).

It was not a League breaking issues, like we have now.
(MMR hell at each division entry tiers)

It was harder to grind in season 1, because your opponent team MMR was matching yours. (you had to lower your MMR to get easy grind)

Season 2, is easy soloq grind for 25% of player base and horrible for 40% of the bottom player base that are stuck in division entry. Many of those are competent above average “hardcore” (those that play the game only for spvp) players.

Worse… don’t ever lose versus bad mmr players, cause your real MMR you work hard for the last 4 years got REKT for good.

Reroll and buy a new HoT box to win more games. Buy to play to get abused by bad league mechanic to make sure you buy more boxes to make sure you still keep your addiction. Oh wait… I don’t want to Buy to Win.

Xillllix.3485:

Balance is just another issue, basically the moment they removed stats points from trait lines they destroyed the class build variety for good. I told them immediately on the forum they were going to destroy build variety, they even replied and said “it’s too soon to tell”… Basically they had no clue what they were doing.

…. replied and said “please report if some of your builds will get none-viable, so we can make fix to make them viable again”.

Forum search is CRAP. Google is better, too much result to find those posts.

I did report 2 build that got completely removed because they did remove key traits or attributes points where not enough. (engi decap, engi healing bombs/cond)

Those 2 are deleted even if reported. Well they thought that scrapper line would put those two sustain build in god like mode… yeah, so turning down scrapper line would had been better, IMO.

Guild Wars 2 was the best new MMORPG in 2012. It got praise beyond imaginary. HoT did removed all that.

1- Destroy balanced.
2- Power creep on HoT stuff only. Buy to Win.
3- Season 2 match-making system is a joke. Leagues show GRINDs, not SKILL.
4- We are all looking around for games from 2012 and up. Large choices, great possibilities. Unfortunately, no MOBA play with Action RPG mindset around.

Results: A lot of addicted players of a good game are now addicted to a terrible game and since we don’t have viable alternative… we are still QQ on the forum.

sPVP is awesome, HoT is terrible. Train rekt.

Because the Leagues are a JOKE based on GRINDS not on SKILL.

For the Get Good Clan, please go play Legendary… many people in there are baddest than many rubies.

The system need to goes back to what it was. If you win versus better player, you got better rank. If you lose versus lower player, you got a lower rank.

If you lose on a balanced mmr match you lose less rank.

And so on.

And… stop doing Match Making with Divisions or Pip range in Mind. Doing this is bad for Queue time for all divisions at start of the League. (they refuse to divide the queue for soloqer, why doing more than 7 divisions or queue than?)

The solution to smurfing should had been less PIPS rewards. Not season 2 match-making. Overfixing, Overnerfing, Over engineering like amateur.

If your team play with a player with a difference of 2 divisions, simply cut the pips gain by half. (season 1 pips system)

In 2014, between a top 10 or a top 100 players, you had something to do to progress.

Even the Abjured was not able to dethrone BrL supremacy on the leaderboard in the top 10(readymade, gorn, tesla…). (yeah I know, they Queue Dodge you… but they had at least been able to win more than once versus you to get there)

So, top players that are competitive, tried harder to get to top 10 even if they were top 100. This was a good competitive model.

Now they are legendaries playing with player that are at 90% of the old leaderboard system.

tldr; League are a joke. Even Legendary players prefer to reroll than play at their level. Because more than half of the Legendaries players are bad like amber but the queue time is too long to enjoy the game.

Dirtyrascal.1023:

Dude, try PARAGON ($20 for early access, game will eventually release Free To Play and is DEFINITELY NOT pay to win) – well worth the $20 to get in now imo.

It’s a 3D Moba – feels slow at first but when you understand it – it’s incredibly strategically deep in comparison to GW2, and I’ve had some of the most intense PVP I’ve had in ages.

This game is made by the best PVP gaming studio ever.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_Tournament_2004

EPIC GAMES.

To the OP, there is many PVP game coming this year. Paragon and Gigantic are closer to Gw2 SPVP than the others I have seen around.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigantic_

On a lot of different thing I tried, Duelyst is a great tactical PVP games where turn bases tactical battle meets Magic the Gathering / Heartstone. For a CCG, it is said as the easiest to “grind” new cards.

http://www.geek.com/news/duelyst-is-one-of-the-most-generous-ccgs-on-the-market-1648222/

Most likely, sPVP League Season 3 should be way BETTER, because the MOBA scene is growing in 2016. (so sad that I feel in a moba alpha like game 4 years after released)

Arcade.8901:

Well i don’t like the system. Because it doesn’t say how actually good i am (at least for me). That’s it. I Threw around 130 games into a season playing on weekends, to get no actual clue about my standing. That bothers me.

Well, now I understand the noise. Thank you. I agree with you. Legendary division should mean way more than it do.

If you wanna kept visibility without bumping a lot your post, try this sub-reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/GuildWars2PvPTeams/

Unfortunately, spvp guild or team got spammed off the Looking for forum section.

Arcade.8901:

Yeah, i still surprised on the amount of “git gud” flying around the forum, when being legendary means nothing this season.

? Forum noise means something ?

Well…

Guess you need to learn to read… i said legendary means you either grind or easy soloq ride (top mmr) for the win.

Actually, it don’t show you can beat Leeto, Java or Helseth… but you know, you would not be able to. They are occupied to farm lower division to show how good they are.

Do you like this? The best of the world farming baddies and claiming they are good? Wow… I am awestruck.

The League are not competitive. You don’t show you are the best, you show you can grind divisions and it’s easier with top MMR you did posssibly farm (or been carried to) 4 years before.

No prestige here. Come back and beat the NL, RIP or PZ (or the top EU if you are in the old world) many time in row. Now you will get Prestige and show that you can beat the best team in the world.

Farming grinders is not on the same league…

My team (TFS) is at tier 5 of diamond.

Our thief is on working scheduled, so we are queuing 4 q for 2 weeks or so.

Yesterday, we did got a Legendary player that throw the matches going AFK on home point.

It was the same in high tier ruby, got matches with bad diamond….

Yeah. Legendary don’t means anything in League. Or it don’t means something important.

There is many bad players into the Legendary division. Many many many that should be under rubies. But well… if the goal is to say Legendary players are TOP players of this game… it’s clearly not.

It shows that players can grind game to get Legendary. This is not a skill based ranking system.

Useless grinding ranking system showing that people that have 30 hours+ a week (or people with top 20% MMR) can be Exalted Legendary.

Nobody know.

But, i think it’s quite fast.

Why?

Leaderboard 2013-2014 show RANK from 1 (top) to 1000 than giving % for the rest.

I did PUG a lot with mid tier players at that time and over a “week” we could be in the 95% to the top 300.

Losing versus low rank, was removing hundreds of RANK in 1 go. So, possibly, MMR related the same as the old RANKING system.

BUT, before… you had the chance to come back and grind your MMR, because your opponent had a MMR similar of yours. Now… not anymore.

So, more you go deeply in the lower MMR thing… more it’s harder to go out.

The only way out, is finding people with good enough MMR that want to QUEUE with you…. so your other random would be good enough to carry the matches versus the lower MMR team. (pay them GOLD, it doesn’t matter, this LEague is not Skill based even if the high MMR make all trash talk on forum to make sure they don’t change that false grind based system to a real skill based one… this mean, that if you can buy your MMR, you could wins way more game than lose even if you are an average player)

Higher your new friends are, easier it will get. It’s why you see Java, Helselth, Leeto or any other high MMR player saying MMR Hell don’t exist. Their MMR is so high, the Match Making system find them high mmr soloq guy. (new account included because new account got a higher mmr than average to give you incentive to buy new HoT box… another Buy to Win scheme from Anet).

Season 1 was harder for high mmr to compete than mid tier players. Many Legendary players got there before their big EGO top players.

Season 2 is all about easy win for the top 20% MMR players.

What Season 3 will reserved us? Long queue time, no matter the system is. The Veteran Hardcore Average players are already on other games right now.

Power.2957:

Akachi.1352:

Evan Lesh.3295:

This is a really great analysis. I appreciate all the work you put into this. We recognize the problems that the season 2 matchmaking is causing and are looking into solutions that will provide a good experience and satisfy our goals for the league system.

abolish mmr and just match people randomly within division? Can’t be worse than it is now

Hell no. There’s nothing I hate more than having bads on my team.

So make it MMR vs MMR again.

Anyway, “top players” don’t need a faulty Match Making to wins matches, isn’t?

Chaith.8256:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Oxidia.8103:

idunno, last night i was able to get 4 tiers in ruby and crossed to diamond in 4 hours of spvp, and gained 1 tier in diamond. i guess it was a lucky day. cca 6 wins per 1 loss.

just put some sweet tunes and rock it.

Nice!! I was one pip away from diamond yesterday then got farmed by 2+ necro for the remainder of the night. Back to T4.

Get rekt n00b, Legend was easy for my superior wits and ESL skills, Kappa

Wow.

Well… don’t forget your Legendary Match-Making system making any QUEUE you do, easier than all the premade you had to make before Season 2.

So easy for you that way, isn’t?

Even the best of the World, will not dare to say they got the easiest rides since 4 years into that puny game.

Arcade.8901:

Jourdelune.7456:

Hahahah…

When you get a new BOX (play HOT), you have more chance to go to Legendary than if you have a main BOX with thousands of matches…

Buy to WIN!!!

More seriously… the MMR just for your TEAM is so bad.

Please get rid of MMR entirely if you don’t want to pair MMR vs MMR team.

So we can have pro players QQ on forums about playing with bad players instead of saying the game is completely right (to farms 80% of the players bases because they are on the top 20% MMR).

So grind based ladder !? Why not just pure MMR based ladder ? Cmon.

I am advocating to remove MMR completely into a GRIND based Ranking system.

Skill based ranking system will always be better than Grind based one.

Hahahah…

When you get a new BOX (play HOT), you have more chance to go to Legendary than if you have a main BOX with thousands of matches…

Buy to WIN!!!

More seriously… the MMR just for your TEAM is so bad.

Please get rid of MMR entirely if you don’t want to pair MMR vs MMR team.

So we can have pro players QQ on forums about playing with bad players instead of saying the game is completely right (to farms 80% of the players bases because they are on the top 20% MMR).

WE are still looking for players with 500+ wins over rank or team queue.

Or:

1- Competitive : 60% win/loose ratio all queue mode.
2- Champion : Top 1 AG or top 3 ESL play. (we need the best to help us become better)
3- French Veteran : 2k games for all spvp game mode and speak french and english. (I main french and so, many good french bilingual players play with us)
4- Ally Leader : you are a strong leader of a spvp group and you bring me into it to try it out, usually guild leader or competitive team leader.
5- You are a competitive players and have a solid records of different competitive game with proof of it and you can CARRY two nights of MISTCORE PUG with me.

The problem with the pips, is they are only WINS. Not wins versus GOOD players.

So, anyone that can play 70 hours a week would get into Legendary even if they play like Emerald.

Cynz.9437:

Chaith.8256:

@Jourdrlune

New accounts get above average MMR? Why so many seem to think this? I’ve played fresh MMR and witnessed people dying to bosses and quad capping in Amber. I’m certainly not playing with top players on the first night of a new account, that’s for sure.

You disagree so confidently and claim starter MMR is ‘above average’, when you see all sorts of wonky builds and rotations, not to mention it’s a fricken invisible number.

If skill didn’t matter, everybody could get a fresh account, granting them above average MMR, and ride to legend, according to you. Those that believe this, and think your final placement is limited by your MMR at the start, I think the salt has seeped into their brains.

Have to agree with Chaith as an exception.
… snip …

Well… whatever.

You didn’t read what I had written.

I will put the most simplest thing to say my thoughts:

“Saying you are good because you farm the League of gw2 with a new account, is not REAL. It’s BS to bring more twitch users, to get more money.”

GOOD players continue to play their game in the LEGENDARY division with other GOOD players.

All the other, that stop doing Legendary VS Legendary games are little kit_ten that don’t want to have competitive match and prefer to play EASY mode NECRO through EASY Mode (soloq) gw2 bad League system.

Thank you,

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/sPvP-needs-its-own-business-model/

BrotherBelial.3094:

Is unreal tournament getting a HD remake?

Yeah, it’s called Paragon.

With stability and stun break.

With Bunker Guardian, you had 2 AOE stability + a pulsing stability field (larger than a point) to spec for.

Since HoT (removal of attribute from trait line), Anet had broke ten’s of viable build (they promise they will not) and never came back with some solutions to put those viable build, viable again.

Permafrost.2695:

……I did Legend completely solo….

Would you with a complete MMR reset before starting the season?

My soloq are easier than my team q. I don’t mind, I prefer to team queue and train with a team, than doing soloq because I did farm MMR for 4 years.

Chaith.8256:

Only saying games are insanely casual in the context of people are not forming teams and organizing, rather opting to come at PvP for the single player content.

Totally AGREE.

The match making system is better for SOLOq than TEAM Q.

Not your fault Chaith, I am still Loving you.

But for the Helseth, Java or Letoo who need money farming BAD players… CHOOOOO!!!

This is ESPORTS!

Chaith.8256:

@Jourdrlune

New accounts get above average MMR? Why so many seem to think this? I’ve played fresh MMR and witnessed people dying to bosses and quad capping in Amber. I’m certainly not playing with top players on the first night of a new account, that’s for sure.

You disagree so confidently and claim starter MMR is ‘above average’, when you see all sorts of wonky builds and rotations, not to mention it’s a fricken invisible number.

If skill didn’t matter, everybody could get a fresh account, granting them above average MMR, and ride to legend, according to you. Those that believe this, and think your final placement is limited by your MMR at the start, I think the salt has seeped into their brains.

I am not salty. I prefer to soloq myself because it’s easier.

I think that Letoo or all TOP players that prefer to grind easy games to Legendary showing how they are good are bad post.

Good player show would be :" hey look I got 10 games in Legendary division yesterday night and I win them all." Even that hardest match in my life versus the complete The Abjured team!!!!

If those Speed run through League means something more than winning versus the PRO… why doing it?

Because, obviously, Letoo prefer to wins versus BAD than be match versus GOOD.

So, before starting to accuse me of Salt… please take the time to “PROTECT” the right one. The good players playing in Legendary? Or the bad that continue to FARMED bad players and SHOW HOW GOOD they are?

Enough said. Good are good… people that need to SHOW OFF have esteem problems.

And those don’t need GOOD to protect them. Unless you do that to have more twitch users? Greedy bad with esteem problems.

Why bad? Why going versus bad all dayz when you can play versus good ?

Dirtyrascal.1023:

shrek.1046:

shagwell.1349:

Dirtyrascal.1023:

I’m logging in, playing a 2 or 3 games and logging out wishing I hadn’t bothered atm. Sad for what has been one of my top 2 games since it’s launch.

So in a search for ideas: What are you all doing in game (PVP) to have Genuine Fun?

Most fun is to not log in.

I’m taking a break as well and reaping the benefits. I’ll probably give the season 1 more go but if there are no or minimal changes for next season I’m gawn with games like Overwatch starting up.

I think Anet are underestimating how much competition for class based PVP is on the horizon.

Their speed of action – and I mean interaction with their community is not good.

Overwatch, Battleborn, Paragon, Black Desert Online, Blade & Soul to name just some…

If they don’t get the PVP in this game sorted out soon… by which I mean- ALL classes viable, more maps, open world queing, FUN PVP matches then I’m predicting that yes – The Sky Will Fall.

Even the ‘Old Faithfuls’ who stream and shoutcast GW2 are hedging their bets. I mean even Jebro YouTube’d a Paragon guide this week.

It’s such a shame but until they actually stop trying to pander to their ‘Pro-Players’ AT THE EXPENSE of their main player base PVP’s going to dwindle.

Well.. Paragon from EPIC (those who did master ARENA GAME before 2000 with Unreal Tournament) is a great MOBA with lot of action from a company that know how to handle PVP for more than 20 years.

Good Luck, Anet.

Raek.8504:

Jourdelune.7456:

Now… I think that Lead is wrong. It’s not just about win and loose ratio. Glicko gives a rank to a player. The rank is then affected depends on who the players win or loose. More point will get add or substract with the “difference” of MMR between both.

Yes okay.

But here let’s assume.

You are predicted winner in the match.

Will the system punish you for 1 guy who uses this and exact game to do his class achievement in ? Yes it will. It will tell you you are not good enough to carry 4v5.

Will the system punish you for that 1 guy DH who losses his 1v1 to a thief ? And then goes afk in predicted win match, when playing side points is only option in this game ? Yes it will.

How hard can you actually carry ?

And button line how actually playing my smurf high volatile accounts with short term high win ratio is a cake walk.
But when playing my main acc it’s like a hitting my head against a wall ?

There is no “winner prediction”. Its your MMR team vs MMR team. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. If you have 50% w/l, you are standing at your rank.

The new league with division of season 1, was having great match but artificial RANKED. The Rank should be like in the old time (2014 or less) not based on wins.

“Will the system punish you for 1 guy who uses this and exact game to do his class achievement in ? Yes it will. It will tell you you are not good enough to carry 4v5.”

BS. I can carry bad players versus good team, if I got 3 competent guy with me. Guaranteed. Because your other team, stack the same. (except at the very top, like 1 to 200 old leaderboard system were you need to stack 5 great guyz— that didn’t play meta because the classes balances was way better than HoT dumbing down trait line and attributes)

For the other questions you got… yeah go Troll away.

Skill based or Grind based ranked system will all get the same problems you described… but… if you reach a good SKILL level of play and are match MMR vs MMR, I assured you the bad DC, bad attitudes or stuff like that are way behind you.

From my experiences, the RANK player of old leaderboard system (top 1000) were good enough to make good matches without all the problems you related.

What you ASK about, the problems you speak about are seen in MMR hell. It existed in 2013, in 2014 and it exist today.

The new league system season 2, is harder for MMR hell than before.

shrek.1046:

Jourdelune.7456:

The idea of a PVE or WvW item that can’t be get anywhere else than spvp, is to bring more people into the game mode.

Funny thing is the way the system is set up is turning more people off pvp once they play it. If the reward achievements were a simple grind which takes a long time but is simply a steady accumulation of achievements it would be far better and less rage inducing. Because it is tied to division gain and because of the inconsistency of matchmaking and players constantly backsliding within tiers, psychologically it becomes incredibly wearing.

Consider we’re not even halfway through the year of ranked pvp yet I and a lot of people I know will probably give up pvp after this because the system makes us hate it.

BOLD text: Yes completely. The Rewards should not be TIED to your skill level, but to the games you play.

They want more spvp players. I am totally for that. Make that fun to them. Give them good matchmaking (team mmr vs team mmr) to have closed match. Make a reward track, a quest line, a AA track or whatever else. But don’t ask them to be TOP players to get it.

PVer or WvW don’t want to be TOP. They want their backpack.

Jelzouki.4128:

Thank you Evan for finally telling these casuals that the reason they are in losing streaks in emerald is because they need to IMPROVE SKILL. You can only climb so much to the point where you need to fix your own gameplay instead of whining. I consider myself to be above average as I almost made it into season pro league, and am legendary rank which sort of supports what I say next. Legendary division feels a lot better this season because the games are closer, the people are better, and unfortunately the queues are longer but its all worth it because I know the people in legendary didn’t have to go on a grind fest. Most of the people I know in legendary didn’t lose a single match until they hit ruby. It’s very simple to climb you just need to IMPROVE your gameplay. /caps typing from phone sorry for grammar

Well, it was true last week.

It’s less true now.

In 2 weeks, it will be even less true.

Many people with average skill level will hit Legendary with a 52% win loose ratio soon enough. (with like 500 games played)

Diamond is completely taken by them right now.

Oh… and please:
" unfortunately the queues are longer but its all worth it because I know the people in legendary didn’t have to go on a grind fest"

How many matches did you made to get there?

It seems the avg is 180. This is a lot of matches… We should all be paired versus team of our skill level all time of the year. We don’t need to grind through there with an artificial league system that simply give a PVE REWARD 4 times a years for 8 week x 4.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Ruby-division-makes-people-hate-PvP/page/4#post6049568

gloflop.3510:

First, thank you Jourdelune for the explanation of what mmr is. Now the important question is: Do you think it works as planned?

If I go back to last season where both teams were in my mmr range (if I understood it correctly). A game on the forest map started with one player running to close and 4 to the forest creature. After the forest creature was killed, both teams battled for mid. However, when I entered ruby (division 4), the dominant strategy changed entirely.

Now 1 player went close and 4 players went mid. Once close was captured, the player from close killed the forest creature.

I dont want to start a discussion about the optimal strategy. Let us for now assume that it is the division 4 strategy. Let us furthermore see my annecdote as a signal for better players in division 4, worse beyond. Last season we got ranked against players in our mmr and in our division (roughly). What happens now with my mmr in this situation? Since I play against better opponents and since there are some players improving strongly and enter diamond, I start losing more than I win. Hence, my mmr drops (as I said: paired against similar mmr).

Let us now compare my mmr before season 1 with after season 1. Am I higher, lower or equal?

Now the question again: Is mmr a fair representation of your skill?
Do you think, I am comparable before and after season 1?

MMR is a fairer representation of your skill than your enemy pip range.
MMR is good enough to pair you with same skill for season 2. Why using it just for your team?

Ok…
IS MMR Perfect? No.

Is it better than random team? Yes.

Now… I think that Lead is wrong. It’s not just about win and loose ratio. Glicko gives a rank to a player. The rank is then affected depends on who the players win or loose.

More point will get add or substract with the “difference” of MMR between both.
In a team game, MMR is not like in a single player game. Glicko 2 is an algorithm for chess…

Anet did fine tune this a lot.

From my past experiences in ranked play form 2013 and 2014, players that where top 200 where better than player that where 200-400 that were better than 400 to 600 and so on.

But… it was “generally”. I did recruit some guyz that had 90% ranked and in a week I could say he play like a 500. why? He played with casual players that where not trying to win that much, making mistakes a lot and so on…

Same… another flaw of MMR, is if you play with high MMR player, you will get high MMR opposing team too. So if you win, you raise your MMR. So part of the MMR is “social” based.

I’ve played with top 100 players that were really bad on rotations… that always peel on even fights with 3 or more players, and he played meta ele or engi. Yeah… bad players got carried by team leader saying goes there or goes there… and when that bad was not listening he got kick from his team but was able to sustain his MMR because his RANK was shown and other high RANK continue to play with him.

The decay on RANK was bad too. Need more finetuning.

But… this was way better than the grinding of WINS that gave us RANK since january 2015. Test season 1 and 2 were bad. League season 1 and 2 as well.

RANK should show who you can beat. Not how much game you wins.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Skill-based-or-Grind-based-rank-system/first#post6048108

gloflop.3510:

First, thank you Jourdelune for the explanation of what mmr is. Now the important question is: Do you think it works as planned?

If I go back to last season where both teams were in my mmr range (if I understood it correctly). A game on the forest map started with one player running to close and 4 to the forest creature. After the forest creature was killed, both teams battled for mid. However, when I entered ruby (division 4), the dominant strategy changed entirely. Now 1 player went close and 4 players went mid. Once close was captured, the player from close killed the forest creature.

I dont want to start a discussion about the optimal strategy. Let us for now assume that it is the division 4 strategy. Let us furthermore see my annecdote as a signal for better players in division 4, worse beyond. Last season we got ranked against players in our mmr and in our division (roughly). What happens now with my mmr in this situation? Since I play against better opponents and since there are some players improving strongly and enter diamond, I start losing more than I win. Hence, my mmr drops (as I said: paired against similar mmr). Let us now compare my mmr before season 1 with after season 1. Am I higher, lower or equal?

Now the question again: Is mmr a fair representation of your skill?

Do you think, I am comparable before and after season 1?

MMR is a fairer representation of your skill than your enemy pip range.

MMR is good enough to pair you with same skill for season 2. Why using it just for your team?

Ok…

IS MMR Perfect? No.

Is it better than random team? Yes.

Now… I think that Lead is wrong. It’s not just about win and loose ratio. Glicko gives a rank to a player. The rank is then affected depends on who the players win or loose. More point will get add or substract with the “difference” of MMR between both.

In a team game, MMR is not like in a single player game. Glicko 2 is an algorithm for chess…

Anet did fine tune this a lot.

From my past experiences in ranked play form 2013 and 2014, players that where top 200 where better than player that where 200-400 that were better than 400 to 600 and so on.

But… it was “generally”. I did recruit some guyz that had 90% ranked and in a week I could say he play like a 500. why? He played with casual players that where not trying to win that much, making mistakes a lot and so on…

Same… another flaw of MMR, is if you play with high MMR player, you will get high MMR opposing team too. So if you win, you raise your MMR. So part of the MMR is “social” based.

I’ve played with top 100 players that were really bad on rotations… that always peel on even fights with 3 or more players, and he played meta ele or engi. Yeah… bad players got carried by team leader saying goes there or goes there… and when that bad was not listening he got kick from his team but was able to sustain his MMR because his RANK was shown and other high RANK continue to play with him.

The decay on RANK was bad too. Need more finetuning.

But… this was way better than the grinding of WINS that gave us RANK since january 2015. Test season 1 and 2 were bad. League season 1 and 2 as well.

RANK should show who you can beat. Not how much game you wins.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Skill-based-or-Grind-based-rank-system/first#post6048108

Chaith.8256:

Jourdelune.7456:

Leeto.1570:

The only fook that had balls to do 100% soloq to legend in season one and 100% soloq on F2P account in season two, thinks is so good at rekin peepz he decided to go from amber to legend in one stream, if its possible in 24-36 hrs it will be done.
https://www.twitch.tv/leet0
No rats.

- |TCG| Leeto

Yeah! At least you can show that you don’t bring your friends in your party to leech their high MMR for you!

Have fun grinding the next 180 games to proof that the system help all HIGH MMR players to have easy games.

True, seems good players get less unfavoured matchups. However these same people can get to legend without HoT, team queue, and with starting at the basic MMR to begin the climb, no “high MMR carry” there.

Because of this, I can’t really see tanked, low MMR being an impossible barrier to overcome if you learn your class and rotations adequately.

Just a general tip to those still dissatisfied with their rank: Try all the meta carry-lord builds, learn what fights/matchups your build thrives in, actively seek them out in games, rotate efficiently, and watch the Pips roll in.

Look for BOLD. Please… think about it before writting it.

New account got an above average MMR from start. For an experience player, it’s easy to carry with above average team versus random.

And… And… Please… Chaith… All TOP players play with TOP players… namely, simply playing a night with your TOP players friends will inflate the new account MMR to high END.

But I agree with you for the rest of your affirmations.

I find it sad, that many TOP MMR player are bragging like kitten bag (arrogant) about being Legendary fast with the MOST easiest RIDE they have since 2012 to get TOP RANKED. (namely they forget to say it’s the easiest RIDE they have, they just be arrogant without saying it)

This is disgusting and ANET did make it happen.

Please, bring back meaningful matches where SKILL matter for BOTH team to have a competitive SKILLFUL match-making RANKED system.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Skill-based-or-Grind-based-rank-system/first#post6048108

edit: clarifications on arrogance from doing easy stuff and making look good.

skurken.4192:

How do you kill a condi mesmer who puts confusion and tormenting on you, im a rev and have no condi cleanse, i can survive the first wave of condis with glint heal. But after that im kittened, condis 24/7 and cc on that. And dont says time your cc and nuke him down, cause that is impossible, atleast for me.

You don’t kill a condi mesmer.

If he got a point, you simply stand on point running in circle. Cleanse. Heals. Block. Dodge.

You will decap the point. This will win you the match if the mesmer continue on it.

Never attack or burst if confusion you have. Too much torment, don’t run.

Don’t attack. He will not be able to kill you. Winning versus condi mesmer is keeping a cap UP before he decap it… or keeping the decap or decapping his point.

Wait for a second one, before CC and burst him.

BTW, condi mesmer don’t have a lot of condi cleanse…

Simonoly.4352:

Lack of reliable personal condi removal options on Revenant is poorly balanced at present. Expect to see some buffs in this area very soon.

How can you build a power rev with more condi cleanse?

Sigil of purity
Sigil of Generosity
Rune of water
Rune of Lyssa
Rune of Leadership
…

There is a great trait line – Corruption – that will help as well.

If you don’t want to change your spec to adapt to meta, at least don’t engage condi user.

Ranking players over WINS is not enough.

It need to give you a better rank (division or whatever the rank is) if you beat better players and a lower rank if you are beaten by a lower team than yours.

The Rewards should not tie to the Ranking, but tied to another form of GRINDING.

That way, a Legendary player is really a GREAT player.

That way, a High MMR soloq who beat easy team all along the way would never have a top RANK.

To get the top, you need to fights and win the TOP. Now being on TOP would mean really something.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Skill-based-or-Grind-based-rank-system/first#post6048108

I do that constantly… if I find good team mate on random q, I will invite him for the next run.

Great way to make new friends.

R O C.6574:

I fought against a DH last night that was continually healing for like 30 sec. Any damage taken was almost immediately healed. After I was killed I watched him do the same thing to my teammate. I have to believe thst most of his healing should have been on cool down. Is this a hack or does a trap build DH really have that much healing?

Did he dodge a lot?

You probably did face some guy merging DH with bunker guard spec.

Does he was able to give a lot of damage or more sustain damage? (cleric ammy don’t do that much, but with traps it’s better)

What you describe in the quote, is the experience of being in 1v1 versus a bunker guard. You can’t beat him more than he can heal / protect / cleanse.