Guild Wars 2

Dirtyrascal.1023:

Evan Lesh.3295:

This is a great topic and I’d like to hear what other ideas people have that could incentive league play in a system where division matches skill level.

Make MMR transparent – There’s your skill level.

Show MMR to the player with a private/public switch – There’s your reward for pvp players.

sanctuary.1068:

With this system theres alot of people who wont get their legendary backpack when the year has ended. Some people are litterally stuck in emerald, are they gonna be stuck in emerald everytime this year? Its just a bit unfair to them, make the legendary backpack accessable in other ways in the pve world then as well.

The idea of a PVE or WvW item that can’t be get anywhere else than spvp, is to bring more people into the game mode.

I agree that the GRIND should be different from the SKILL to get it, but that’s just me.

I want Legendary Players to be really that. Top players playing together.

Not grinders vs top… anyway grinders stop when they accomplished their goal.

This bring a second issue, we need more than that BackPack to get players into it… people like me, that play it only to get good matchup are shafted by that.

lead.7543:

Jourdelune.7456:

lead.7543:

The real elephant in the room is that MMR is based on wins, losses and disconnects. It is not based on what the player actually does in a match on a specific profession. MMR is flawed so what Evan says about players staying in a division based on MMR is extremely flawed.

Stopped reading there.

After 4 years of playing spvp consistantly 3 or 4 nights a week, I can assure you MMR is based over WHO you win and WHO you lose.

That is where you are wrong! YOUR MMR is based on your team wins and losses not your personal wins. GW2 PvP has no “who YOU win and who YOU lose” at all! There is no 1v1 league so try again… Also the MMR is a rating based on teamwork NOT personal work.

Clearly not.

I don’t have a high w/l ratio (because I am a dedicated spvp guild leader who tried out hundreds of players of all skills level) and my MMR is better than many that have higher w/l than mine. It’s way more complex than you think it is.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

At the heart of PvP matchmaking algorithm is the Glicko2 matchmaking rating (MMR). This rating, which is an approximation of your skill level, helps match you with other players with similar skill level. In addition to two core ratings (one for unranked and ranked arena), a rating is also kept for each profession. More than one rating is used in order to encourage players to experiment with other professions they may not play regularly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glicko_rating_system

“The RD measures the accuracy of a player’s rating. For example, a player with a rating of 1500 and an RD of 50 has a real strength between 1400 and 1600 with 95% confidence. Twice the RD is added and subtracted from their rating to calculate this range. After a game, the amount the rating changes depends on the RD: the change is smaller when the player’s RD is low (since their rating is already considered accurate), and also when their opponent’s RD is high (since the opponent’s true rating is not well known, so little information is being gained). The RD itself decreases after playing a game, but it will increase slowly over time of inactivity.”

RD is used for MMR on the Glicko page.

Please KPop, ask MISTCORE channel each time you want for a Legendary Queue time Learning sessions. (you will probably get some answers…)

Per chance, did you win any AG or ESL tourney (with proof?).

If not, I would probably create a Mentor RANK. You got the drive, the talent and skills to make people learning new things up.

Congratz over that proof of leadership, it’s great from you.

lead.7543:

The real elephant in the room is that MMR is based on wins, losses and disconnects. It is not based on what the player actually does in a match on a specific profession. MMR is flawed so what Evan says about players staying in a division based on MMR is extremely flawed.

Stopped reading there.

After 4 years of playing spvp consistantly 3 or 4 nights a week, I can assure you MMR is based over WHO you win and WHO you lose.

I’ve seen people with 60% win/lose ratio that were in the 90% of the ranked leaderboard MMR (skill based) system.

Nothing about simply grinding wins… Except from 2015 january and up.

You are either too new to know, or not good enough (never been ranked on old leaderboard) to feel for it.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Here is how you fix matchmaking and division issues in one simple fix.

Honesty, what needs to happen is just 1 big indefinite length division with checkpoints.
When you reach the pip checkpoint, your display badge changes. I have 60 pips, so I am now considered diamond for example.
If you lose pips and fall below that checkpoint, your badge will revert to the old one. I lost a match and fell to 59 pips. 60 pips is the diamond threshold so now my badge shows as ruby,

No more hard barriers. I can fall from diamond to sapphire if I keep playing poorly.

You can still have the tiers where matchmaking attempts to match certain tier players but just have one big floating division. pips 60-80 are considered diamond. MM will attempt to match me against players with 60 pips +/- 5 pips within rank initially and expands as the timer goes.

Teams are randomly sorted. Pips are the metric so anyone with 60 pips is fair game on either team. Do not place all the better or lower pips on one side.
Matches become more even.

Have every person start somewhere around 10-20% of the pips. Then you can actually fall initially or climb. Season begins, you have 20 pips and start in the emerald tier. fall below 15 pips, rank demotes to amber. get it back and rank changes again.

This is the best way to ensure fair matches at each level. A variable gray scale instead of hard boundaries.

Rewards winning, does not prevent people from being stuck in a tier they cannot actually sustain.

I forgot to mention, the variable pip win loss scale needs to be active. But only if matchmaking takes into account professions as well.

In promoting the grind your Wins to legendary Ranking system, you forgot to remove the base your team on MMR versus random people of pips range.

A grinding ranked based system should not use MMR at all.

So Hard Carry, will have to do it with bad players. Not the other way around. (and really, the high MMR that got hard carry at high MMR would be at their proper place again)

IMO, gw2 spvp is a skill based games and it would need to get skill based RANKING.

Since it cater to casual that have a life, a work and a family, I think that ranking over SKILL would be better than on GRINDS. (with a good decay system, not playing a week is too much for a competitive skill based system)

I hate the mix messages of Gw2 is great for casual gamers playing 10 hours a week but doing a grind based ranking system that ask 30h/w to be effective.

Ithilwen.1529:

@ Evan Lesh

In addition, teaming is the only practical means to get the upper divisions. I strongly suspect that was intended. So, in reality, players skills are not being tested so much as social skills and the ability to choose stackable classes and builds. Witness the number of complaints about the quality of play in Diamond/legendary.

Fixed: teaming is the only practical means for below average MMR players to get the upper divisions.

Wow… a great post about SKILL vs GRIND with some DEV answers.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Ruby-division-makes-people-hate-PvP/first

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

I am sorry, you are completely wrong thinking that your MM is making the Ranked system showing skills involved.

Basically, since MMR is used for your team and not for your enemy… if you have good MMR, it will get easier to goes to legendary…

Because the MM is giving you good team mates.

When you have bad MMR, you search to play with others… but only those with bad MMR are seeking it, because those top 20% MMR have it easier in soloq.

MORE… A win into RUBY, DIAMOND or LEGENDARY means nothing. It’s a win versus random team.

It would show SKILL if you will be match versus equal or better MMR opponent. Since, it’s random… being Legendary don’t show you can beat the best. It show you can beat the grinders that put their TIME into it.

To really have value in that GRINDING system, you should show the number of matches played to attain it. So, grinders with 600 matches… will look bad compare to Legendary players with 200 matches or less….

Please, put the GRIND on rewards and give back the RANK to skills.

If you beat GREAT players, you should rise, if you are beaten by lower players, you should go down.

Other wise… Diamond and Legendary should get a hard limit on MMR to get access to.

And all matches from there should be MMR vs MMR.

From there, Diamond you should be secure (not going back down on division) but all others from Emerald to ruby should get division demotions.

Why crying?

This is working like they decide before the start of the season 2.

Remember after season 2 had been started?

Then remember that more than half pvp players stop playing?

Then do you remember that Collin did want to pass more times with his family?

I guess… what we heard, is not that the DEV are bad. It’s the administrator that refuse the DEV to do something nice.

Perhaps with the change in command, season 3 will get skill based competitive match-making again?

Perhaps they will got the right idea to give a SKILL based ranking system and a different GRINDING system to gather great REWARDs for the PVE/WvW crowd out there?

Either do it MMR vs MMR (skill based ranking system) or PIPS range vs PIPS range (grind based ranking system).

Doing it like S2 is completely wrong and it almost show that the top 20% paid Anet to make that change for them…

Ryan.9387:

Disclaimer – This is based on my understanding of the ranked matchmaking system.

Consider these two matchmaking points

1 – A match will be made between players within a similar pip range
2 – These 10 players will be grouped based on their MMR

Because of point 2, there will in effect be an “A Team” and a “B Team” in every match.

The official reasoning for this is so good players will advance through the ladder quickly.

However, if a player loses a large number of games such that his MMR declines below the average for his pip range, he will always be grouped with the “B Team”.

In most games losing matches results in that player facing weaker opponents so he has an even match up. In the current league system there are points where you cannot be matched with weaker opponents (division thresholds etc).

What happens at this point is the player in question always faces a stronger team with a weaker one because his lower MMR. If the range of player skill is significant in a specific pip zone, the gap between the A and B teams will be large on average and will result in constant losses due to the matchmaking system. Every loss will lower this player’s MMR, and the lower MMR will result in even worse matchups, up until they are essentially unwinnable. This is the MMR hole.

I feel this is a fundamental flaw in the system and is contributing the the consistent one sided match ups I see in my progression through the leagues.

Exactly Shadow Shooter.

The system make it so, that the top 30% will have it easier if they SOLOQ than TeamQ the League.

To counter this FLAW they need to help low MMR players to get a way to raise their MMR.

So, after a 3 streak lost, they should put 1 low MMR with 4 high MMR players, so they can carry his MMR a bit.

But it would not be fair.

MMR vs MMR is the only way to let players improve their MMR. Sometime they wins, sometime they loose and the MMR will adapt. Actually, they can’t because they are always put in the B team for that queue time.

Dahkeus.8243:

Carry every team? No. Carry enough teams to get a high raking? Yes. And it’s been done.

Yeah, it’s easier than ever now with the MMR of your team versus anyone.

There was a popular meme in 2014. You can carry one bad or new player into a team, you can go to two if you play versus bad players… but never 3.

So, 1 strong carry will balance 1 strong low skill player. If you have 3 low skill player, you loose even if you are named Chaith. And I have farmed enough Top players doing duo or trio queue, to give Challenger RANK to 30 or more people into MISTCORE. (need 10 wins versus known top 100 players)

Namely, even if you are not considered into the top 100, you still can win 300 games versus some of them.

It’s completely different when you face a PREMADE of top players… Any combo of players from the PRO league will beat any TEAM with Helseth or JAVA into it trying to show he can carry low mmr players into Legendary.

I like all your suggestions.

Why not transforming the Pirate ship into an Air Ship that could be LEAP on?

Remove water to make a canyon like thing… and keep the point down below… This would help make rotations on the map. Putting the point on the pirate ship is kinda a linear rotations… could be cool tho, like dodge balling Foefire.

@Velosth.4573 @Ninski.5680

Please, this thread is for talking about the RANKING system.

Either Grind based or Skill based.

Everything else should be carried in another thread.

Thank you,

LordKage.9135:

There’s no such thing as 6 PvP Queue’s. The matchmaking algorithm will grab 4 players within your pip / mmr range and face you against a team within the same pip range. The system is working as intended. The only problem they should solve is prestige x # should not be consider another division range.

I am sorry but 6 is a figure of divisions, but the reality is it’s way more than 6.

Because it’s a + or – 7 pips from yours… it means that if you queue, you will get a match based on that range…

Basically, it’s like dividing the queue by divisions.

You will never be able to show me screenshot of a full saphire team versus ruby or up.

But before league, you could be a team of avg rank 800 and meet team of avg rank of 80.

ResJudicator.7916:

Ithilwen.1529:

@ Evan Lesh

You are confusing elite with prestigious. The elite in this case being formed by pre made team groupies who are willing to stack specific classes and builds.

The majority of matches favor one side and most of those who have risen to high rank have done so by being on a team rather than by individual skill. This doesn’t result in prestige, it results in a caste of haves and a caste of have-nots.

Everything you wrote is demonstrably false.

There are plenty of players who reached legendary via solo-queue. Heck, some guy posted a thread where he solo-queued to legendary running core necro (NOT REAPER) on a brand new free-to-play account (so no MMR advantage). Some other dude posted a thread with screenshots of each of his solo-queue matches to legendary.

How did they accomplish that? By being more skilled than you. Don’t pretend otherwise.

Sorry… but a TOP player having a fresh new account will not have difficulties because the new player account is AVG MMR (or better).

If the MMR was fixed to 20% for new account, TOP players would find it more harder to SOLOQ in the last tier of the player base.

All this because they choose to put MMR for your team but not for the opponent

Either remove MMR or do MMR vs MMR. The actual system is a joke that let TOP player trying to let you think they are better than all because they win matches on second account, but it’s false since their many account are old and got MMR in the top 20%. (and if completely fresh 2016 account, they start at AVG MMR and have the skills to make it goes higher… starting in HELL (20% bottom) would be a different story.

This is bad because many TOP players are really the best of the WORLD but the League and is MAtch Making remove that value since the system give them EASY rides.

Evan Lesh.3295:

To summarize the issues people have brought up:
An accurate ladder rewards skill at the cost of queue time.
Reducing queue time would require frustrating players with imbalanced matches (either by skill, or just visual ladder badge).
Making the ladder more about grind gets more players to legendary, but there is no prestige.

What would make legendary players happy to keep playing the game? Is it just quicker queue times? What if you could do other things while waiting? What if there was something other than leagues all together like unranked arena that legendary players could go to until more players make it to legendary?

What would make legendary players happy to keep playing the game?

Stop using division to queue people with. Come back to MMR vs MMR. The system was good, got 3 years of finetuning and was way better than grinding Leagues to get matches.

Is it just quicker queue times?
With great players MMR that don’t have time to grind 200 games to get Legendary but are able to fights them, why not doing MMR vs MMR only. Scratch LEAGUE and divide MMR by divisions for the BADGES.

What if you could do other things while waiting?
We ask this for years. I don’t want to 1v1 in the MIST for 1 hour to get a queue pop.

What if there was something other than leagues all together like unranked arena that legendary players could go to until more players make it to legendary?
This is their only alternative actually. I prefer playing unranked but everyone is on the grind of leagues. This come from the psychological aspect of MMORPG players, that think that SKILL come through GRINDING. It’s really sad that you have a SKILL based system (nothing to grind to get equal builds) but ranked us on GRINDING games.

Here is some thoughts for you:

1- Make the Heart of the MIST a MOBA package target for that audience: (so you can work on SKILLS and stop catering to the grinders)
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/sPvP-needs-its-own-business-model/

2- Make a ranking system based on SKILL and a REWARD system based on GRINDS. Don’t merge them.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Skill-based-or-Grind-based-rank-system/

Burtnik.5218:

…
1. Theres basically no reason to continue play once you get legend. No extra tickets, no extra shinies, just a title for getting there.
…

Agreed. The Legendary Title would be way better if given after Legendary x1 not, at the beginning of it.

Grinders can go to Legendary and stop playing… so… well… you need those players, so let them grind with the pro till they stop doing it.

Legendary Title should hold more value, IMO.

Put some FENCE that will push you back on the map when you got fear/push in it.

Like a WWF ring?

Agemnon.4608:

It is well known that for quite some time elementalist was best due to the fact that it could lay multiple combo fields and give great area healing and utility which were further amplified with tempest. Engineer however doesn’t just lay combo fields but can even trigger them himself with leap, whirl and blast finishers! I did defeat a scrapper on my tempest once this season in 1v1, but this is an anecdotal case not indicative of the overall objective strengths of the classes.

Perhaps the damage from lightning overload with the proper setup (e.g., dragonhunter daze trap) evens these two out in the long run?

The problem with your affirmations is that BEST in what with which build?

Scrapper with Morter > Scrapper with Stealth Gyro for laying field. But people play Stealth Gyro for more peel utilities…

dd ele was best in all situations (or perhaps except burst damage) but it’s nerfed and put at his proper place… (please don’t flame that ele should be full DPS viable and not support).

The thing is… BEST for one class/role is different. A bruiser that want to excel in 1v1 for sides points, would use the best possible thing for it.

Optimum in meta for that role :

Best bruisers – Reaper, Mercenary mesmer, Scrapper Paladin or Marauder.
Best bunker – tempest d/f cleric
Best roamer DPS – power revenant

Meta is the best optimum thing for a role. If you stacked meta classes with role, with people that excel in that role… you play the best possible.

But… for some… say Counter-Meta comp (really rare since HoT, but let’s take Radioactive last year) the BEST is not the balanced meta comp. They will run 2 DPS necro/wells/liches with two bunker rezzers and something support with it.

Anyway… scrapper are not more best than other classes… they share 3 other build (reaper and mercenary mesmer) for the same role. I find scrapper best for team fight because of supports, but other would think reaper support (fear + chills + condi sponge) is better.

Well… it’s kit_te_ning subjective.

Cosbuster.4379:

The whole notion of “carrying” is taken way out of proportion. Sure, you can to some extend but if people really feel like being stupid, there’s not much you can do unless you can be at 2 places at once and 1v4.

This is because of Lord BS Helseth that can’t use TWO Low MMR account in Diamond Division to show his point.

He is so notoriously “big bang ego” that he created MYTH without using FACTS. He said he can carry any low MMR with his second account… but who will say this is a really bad MMR players and his own second account got a really bad MMR?

Actually, all new account are medium MMR. And LORD BS HELSETH can’t drop his MMR (he is so good)… so his second account are at worse better than average.

And thief or mesmer can carry games if they fights on side points and win their fights.

Proof:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/49vr6w/pvp_looking_for_any_random_pvper_who_claims_to_be/

mildsoss.9867:

wtf why is there an emerald on that team? Thats like throwing a silver against a platinum is league of legends. This matchmaking is terrible.

Completely Wrong.

I know many emerald players that didn’t played too much and are better than some Legendary players that simply grind games.

The matchmaking is terrible because DIVISION is not showing skills but how much game you played.

Well compared to the dynamic SKILL based ranking system of 2013-2014, the season 2 is not fun.

If I win versus TOP players, I want it to show on my RANK. (like it was)

Now, when I win a TOP or a below average player, I only get a PIP.

It’s not fun. Grinding games to go Legendary with many other grinders that don’t play good is not fun.

Been match versus players that don’t know rotations, don’t know how to burst or CC is not fun at all.

I want my games to have challenged along the way. Each time I win versus GOOD players, I want it to SHOW it NOW. Not in 4 weeks of 8 hours play a week. If I am good enough now, to be considered a GOOD player, I want it now… not because I can grind games 30 hours a week.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Skill-based-or-Grind-based-rank-system/first#post6045595

The worse is… If I soloq I get easy games. When I play with my mid tier team in TRAINING, it’s harder in Diamond. Fine… we are diamond… but the system is borked. No one should get it easier in SOLOQ than TEAMQ.

This means… that GOOD player don’t have incentive to JOIN team. They simply soloq.

So, people like me, who like to TRAIN with a group got the Last Straw.

Still looking for 2 or 3 top rated players to help grow our skills.

There is a great reddit post that discuss the subject openly right there:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4an121/are_higher_pvp_divisions_a_good_indicator_of/?ref=search_posts

To summed it up, being Diamond or Legendary don’t reflect your SKILL it only show how much time you put into it.

Probably, the people that are Legendary right now are more SKILL than anyone in the game, but they have already some grinders in it right now.

Next week, it will get more grinders.

At the end of the season more than half of the legendary division players will not be TOP rated by any means.

The League system need to show if you are good (win versus good players), not if you can put 30 hours a week into it.

The worse of our League right now, is that it DIVIDE the player base by 6 QUEUE. They did refuse to divide it by 2 to give SOLO q, but they do by divisions now. This means that the top players in Legendary right NOW, can’t play game because they have 45+ minutes queuing.

This was not an issue with the old MMR based leaderboard ranking in 2013-2014.

LordCanti.7124:

Any chance I could prove my worth to you, even though I don’t have the 500 ranked wins? I mean, I haven’t done bad for just really starting PvP when seasons started.

Thank you for your inquiry.

I am actively recruiting established spvp players that put their time into the game mode.

This means, that I have a lot of players to play with to evaluated them to make sure MISTCORE still reflect our gaming philosophy.

I am doing all this work alone and many that got the “requisite” right are waiting to get try out on QUEUE to be approved in the guild.

If you are serious about MISTCORE offering, come back when you got that 500 wins in rank queue.

I will hear any offer that don’t meet the 500 wins in rank queue for different MISTCORE RANK

1- Competitive : 60% win/loose ratio all queue mode.
2- Champion : Top 1 AG or top 3 ESL play. (we need the best to help us become better)
3- French Veteran : 2k games for all spvp game mode and speak french and english. (I main french and so, many good french bilingual players play with us)
4- Ally Leader : you are a strong leader of a spvp group and you bring me into it to try it out, usually guild leader or competitive team leader.
5- You are a competitive players and have a solid records of different competitive game with proof of it and you can CARRY two nights of MISTCORE PUG with me.

Removing options from PVP is removing players from the game mode.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/439uq3/pvp_evan_lesh_would_all_highskilled_players_be_ok/

Each time they did remove something out of it, we lost hundreds of players.

Qualifier Points? In game Tournament for paid game?

Celestial amulet?

Attributes points from traits line?

8v8?

Jewels on Amulet…?

Turrets Engi!!! (oh nvm!)

And so on…

Our sPVP game right now are less good than it was 2 years ago. If Anet would released another Heart of the MIST with a mirror image of December 2012 with a working leaderboard, I am sure serious players would play that and not the dumb down version we have today that offer way less options than we had before.

Do you know why? Back then, Kensuda could play a spirit weapon guardian at high level of play (top 200) and be successful with it versus meta build.

StunningStyles was able to 1v1 with his guardian any top players and put video of it over the web: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP4b-zaMCJo

It was the time when META was for NOOB and Expert were able to COUNTER META with OPTIONS.

sephiroth.4217:

There’s a few good Cleric Guardians running about, came across one yesterday in 3 different games and he never lost mid, paid him for the build and I ended up doing the same, never losing mid in my next 5+ games.

It has half decent damage, but the heals were too funny…. As for discussion on Necro, the build involves a tonne of condi removal with little to no boon application which renders most current Necro builds useless.

Is that a bunker guardian build but playing with meditation and not shouts so you have less boons to corrupt?

Staff and mace/shield?

I have made a build like that after january 26 patch and it was great to play with.

Topher.5631:

Hey guys! So we got all of our members for the team, and I apologize those of you that didn’t contact me in time. If you are one of those players, here is a link to a similar post:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/lookingfor/MIST-CORE-LFM-CORE-or-Leader-SPVP-players/first#post6041899.

They pretty much have the same requirements / goals that I posted, give them a shout if you wanted to try out. Best of luck !

Thank you Topher.

MISTCORE is an alliance to let full team find a reliable “sub” when they need it.

I’ve been in so many teams… it’s really hard to have a strong 5 each night. Some will get sick, some will flip team, some will flip game, some will change work scheduled.

It would be great to have you as an Ally Leader into it, so the 100s we are, know that you Lead a sPVP team and that you are great to “invite” them for some night subbing.

:)

I respect your choice to get a close (5 man or so) group, but I assure you, that being in an alliance of spvp veterans will make your 4 a solid 5 while you need it.

AGREED.

Grind based system for ranking is not fun, is not representative of skills and punish the player base too much for too long.

I did propose a SKILL based system here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Skill-based-or-Grind-based-rank-system/first#post6036443

… again a grinding wins system through PIPS will never show how SKILL you are.

To do this, scratch PIPS. We don’t need to GRIND.

You win versus a better MMR team, you raise your League RANK. (Lower MMR team, you raise a bit your league RANK)

You lose versus a better MMR team, you lose your League RANK. You lose versus a lesser MMR team, you lose more League Rank.

Give a decay hit each 2 dayz, where the decay numbers is relative to the numbers of games played (played 2 games in two day, the decay is higher than 10 games on 2 dayz).

Normalized number of games on a week and punish those who stop playing League to KEEP their High RANK.

Actually… the league system make you progress through grinding anyone into your PIPS range till you it Legendary. Yeah… so Legendary to grinds games versus anyone that grind games…

Krysard.1364:

Jourdelune.7456:

Leeto.1570:

Was busy not beeing banned on main account and forgot to brag about this seasons legend.
So ye same as first season 100% necro 100% solo que, only now on free to play account, time +/- 2 weeks. Diamond was kinda strugle cause its full with revenants but otherwise much easier than first season.
Dont let your dreams be dreams .?(ò_ó?)?

Nice, it shows you got more time to play than work and care for your relative…

Show me a Skill based system, base on winning versus GOOD team plz.

Showing that you can grind wins with time, well… duh.

He actually won against Pro League parcial premades

Yeah sure, 1 game over 10 or so.

Leeto is a skill players that BRAG going into Legendary… the thing, is Legendary division don’t show skill at all, it show you can GRIND Wins.

Like it or not, I respect skill players but I hate GRINDING game to get a RATING. It’s even more unfun than doing it with an opposing team that is not of your team skill level.

You will think the same as me when all your grinders with bad reputation will be Legendary.

Yasi.9065:

… snip…

Make your seasons MMR based, matching players of relatively same mmr together in one team, pitting them against another team in an adequate mmr range against another team.

MMR has to be reset after seasons for this, and there has to be a pre-season for people to play and create their mmr anew. If they dont play, they start with BELOW average mmr and have to work their way up.

Reward pips accordingly (2 for winning against higher mmr team, 1 otherwise, loosing against lower mmr team, loosing 2 pips etc.) and make the pip system into a result instead of using it for matching.

For this you HAVE to show each players mmr. Otherwise people will whine how they can have an amber on their team against full legendaries.
…

Please… stop asking PIPS grinding to reflect SKILLS. Grinding wins will never show skill. To Show SKILL you need to WINS versus people that have a better MMR than you.

You are right in wanting a skill based rank system. You are wrong in asking to grind it.

Either make it FULLY SKILL based (with MMR and without grinding) or make it fully GRINDING PIPS (without MMR, so we can have strong carry mixed with low players) ride.

Please +1 this and add your own thing in it:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Skill-based-or-Grind-based-rank-system/first#post6036443

You got my +1.

I would add this:

11. Rank queue need to show your skills, not the grinding of wins. We should raise in RANK if we wins versus a better team and lose in RANK when we lose versus baddest team. Bringing back old ranking system and putting the divisions to show where people stand in skills would help to merge the 6 divisions queue into 1 queue where SKILL matters. This would give competitive match from the lowest tier to the highest tier. MMR hell would not be an issue because your opponent MMR would be based on yours, so you got a chance to WIN and raise it.

Leeto.1570:

Was busy not beeing banned on main account and forgot to brag about this seasons legend.
So ye same as first season 100% necro 100% solo que, only now on free to play account, time +/- 2 weeks. Diamond was kinda strugle cause its full with revenants but otherwise much easier than first season.
Dont let your dreams be dreams .?(ò_ó?)?

Nice, it shows you got more time to play than work and care for your relative…

Show me a Skill based system, base on winning versus GOOD team plz.

Showing that you can grind wins with time, well… duh.

Well… Anet didn’t want to get SOLOQ, why? They don’t have enough population to make 2 queue mode…

Guess what?

They did put 6 queue mode, 1 for each divisions. All this to make a rank based system on GRINDS (not skill).

Anyway… wait for another week, the no life grinders are coming to you.

Snowywonders.1378:

Why do people assume you’re supposed to advance if you play enough?

Because the ranking system advanced you through wins with PIPS.

Not because you beat a better rank team than yours.

This is a grinding ranking system, where if you spam enough wins you are a “Legendary” players.

Any no life guy can achieve that over 8 weeks.

Gewd.8125:

The reason is quite obvious, not sure why so many people have issues understanding this.

Let’s say there is someone that should be at legend, they need to grind at least 60 wins and this is assuming they don’t lose a single game. The win streak system is basically a poor man’s ELO and capping the pip gain at 2 makes people’s divisions reach their true value slowly.

There are 3 solutions to fixing this problem and I have no idea why Anet again feels like they need to reinvent the ladder system.

1. Place people in higher divisions depending on their MMR.
2. Allow win-streaks to give you more than 2 pips which is laughably small.
3. Just make divisions directly equal to MMR.

Before anyone asks, I am almost diamond and I’ve only lost 2 games not including disconnectors.

“3. Just make divisions directly equal to MMR.”

You are a genius.

Skill based rank system should rank you up on skills nor on grinding wins/pips.

Please, bring your post here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Skill-based-or-Grind-based-rank-system/first#post6036443

Copy paste or something.

Thank you Littlefeather, I will add you up tonight.

Terrorsquad.4802:

Why would we waste time on a lost match?
What’s the difference for players losing 500-350 or 500-20?

Well… since you lose, why not losing it to gain some MMR?

If you lose at 400 or more and the opponent team got higher MMR than you, you are raising it.

To goes out of MMR hell you all need to lose closed matches. If not… well GL HF losing more games.

It was easier to work on MMR when it was used for BOTH team. Now since it’s only on your team… it’s way harder to raise it.

At least, lose your matches better to have your only way out of that low mmr… or play with people who want to play with you to stop complaining about MM.

Novuake.2691:

So i just had a troll warrior second game in a row, SAME guy, can we STOP repeat matchmaking like this? If i Q up now again he will be on my team AGAIN.

Same thing happened with a mesmer and thief last week for A LOT more than 2 game.

Do you know how kittening infuriating this is!!

Your matchmaking is kittened, your abuse and punishment system is kittened.

So what? Am i just supposed to play with this kittener all day? Until he decides to stop?

This is pathetic really, seriously getting over this kitten joke of a PvP league.

This is coming from a Guild Leader that train new player to the scene?

Ok… 2 games in a row is nothing. Since 2012, I’ve played something with or versus 5 games in a row.

Since then, every veteran spvp player know how to:

1- Dodge Queue
2- Queue another game mode (conquest or unranked) to un-sync gaming queue with your troll.
3- Play on NA, for a change… new free account.
4- Do something else than playing gw2?

or…

Do a full premade of the MISTBAND and kill your troll on the ennemy team, over and over?

In game incentives:

1- Champion titles, legendary titles, legendary division titles.
2- Track reward with various gear giving skin or something for your PVE or WvW ride.
3- League division progression, from Amber to Legendary.
4- Legendary Backpack item, another pve or wvw item.
5- PVP rank and Achievement Points.

My incentives:

1- playing with new players to evaluated their skill levels.
2- friending the people I found with great skill level and take the game seriously like me.
3- blocking the people I hate to play with because they got an attitude I don’t like.
4- getting better and winning matches versus the top 100 players.
5- teaching people with good attitude, how to get better.
6- learning and adapting to new meta game.
7- having a nice time each time i have time to wasted into my favorite hobby…

Littlefeather.8623:

Unable to find a feature to attach ss’s to pm’s.

Thank you for your interest.

Simply make a file with your SS and attach it to your PM message.

BTW, I need pvp stats panel (rank game wins), not Achievement panel.

MISTCORE got a rank based system based on FACTS and not on BS (people say someone is good while he is not or someone is bad while he is good). So everybody got their rank through it.

Ithilwen.1529:

I deserve it more than the kittens who pre-made and rode a win streak to the top with very little effort.

Or the 20% top MMR player who simply EASY soloq to the TOP.

Galandil.9641:

SailorSpira.9371:

BrotherBelial.3094:

T1 Emerald vs Sapphire? I don’t think that should be happening.

Last night. The player pool is just too small.

And there goes the theory of the 15 pips maximum range for all the participants in a single match.

Anet what have you done?

Basically, they are dividing the queue by 6 divisions… (or in 15 pips range)

This is worse than giving MMR based SOLOQ andTEAMQ options.

For the OP, I am sorry but… the grinders already did grind to ruby. The good players are already ruby and up. Coming late at a season start put you in this situation.

Having a SKILL based RANKED system, would removed all those problems.

Please look at this post and comment with you problem in the grind based system:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Skill-based-or-Grind-based-rank-system/first#post6036443

Greetings,

MIST[CORE] in NA is a no rep require active pvp guild with mid tier players and up.

We offer visibility (Champion RANK) to top tier players in exchange to have some games to help us from time to time to get better. (when you feel for, no string attached)

If you enjoy playing with new people, teaching them some skills and seeing their progressions, please join us.

Screenshot or link to your AG or ESL wins with account name is mandatory.

Btw, in this post we are looking for sPVP veterans or Team leader to join us as well. (would really like to get sponsors by one of the PRO TEAM)

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/lookingfor/MIST-CORE-LFM-CORE-or-Leader-SPVP-players/first#post6032805

Thank you,

Sirendor.1394:

Just want to bring this up for discussion again. Still seems like a good idea to me.

Thank you,

Look at this post from reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/49vpzr/if_you_had_to_remove_1_game_mode_from_guild_wars/

Even other game mode players want to remove sPVP from their game.

But… all MOBA gw2 players want to have visibility over the MOBA market while keeping it a game mode for other players (pve and wvw).

Here is some funny thing right there:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/49xfxx/pvp_what_are_the_primary_skills_separating_the/

The OP think that he need better skills to enter Diamond, while all he need is better MMR friends (1 or 2 or more) to grind wins (with random soloq better mmr player) to enter it.

People really think that GRINDING wins, show HOW GOOD you are.

Wow.. sorry. This is not going to happen.

In 2 weeks, the grinders will get Legendary. Top players will get normal queue time. Everyone will attest in 1 month, that many Legendary division players are bad.

Grind to the WINS?

Just to let you know, I can’t find the quote from a DEV, but they said that a full soloq team versus premade had a 50% win / loose ratio.

This was with the old MM system, where team of “even” skills where pit together.

This means, that good premade got paired versus good soloqer.

All the soloq guyz that QQ about it, are the looser on all level (low, mid, high).

With the stats here… it’s mean that GOOD soloqer team can WIN versus good premade.

In 2013, the minimap was showing green dot for your party (no class indication) and you were not able to see your enemy position. In that time, communication on TS was KING. Since then… not much.