Guild Wars 2

Crinn.7864:

MMR is fine, the problem is that they keep mucking with it in the name of pips. The old pre leagues system of pure glicko2 matchmaking was fairly accurate.

It was a great system with some down sides that could had been tweak. Namely Rank Decay and number of matches played ceiling or giving more weight for people with more matches played. (many new account were able to be in the top 100 with less than 100 games…)

Dethl.2875:

Jourdelune.7456:

Fay.2357:

This thread exemplifies the history of Mesmer in GW2:

1. Mesmer is not meta in competitive play
2. Mesmer has builds that steamroll bad players
3. Bad players get steamrolled and come to the forums to whine about it
4. Mesmer gets nerfed again
5. Mesmer goes from not meta to garbage in competitive play

Here’s to hoping Anet ignores the baddies and doesn’t execute point 4.

Well if you look more at ESL matches… you will see more mesmers than the last week. Next week, you will see some more.

Actually, if you play the RANK game… you probably find 1 mesmer each match from Diamond and up.

Perhaps you missed it, but here again:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest

The first class in META section, is hybrid mesmer. And it’s not because the admin of this website are Necros…

i don’t really care enough to debate
but the order is alphabetical from the name of the specialization so good job

Quoting for those who can’t read: (look at screenshot)
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest

Yeah… the alpha sort is kinda bug, if it’s alpha sort. (D/F Aurashare on the last line after Power Rev???)

But perhaps you mistaken first (be the best) by first being the first line in the list?

Aftter the META section, you got the GREAT section… did you ever use that website before?

Oupps… -10 for Dal that got Trolled up by a random pvp player.

Really fun.

I don’t mind RANK or UNRANKED queue. Actually, I have more fun in unranked, since the TEAM MMR vs TEAM MMR give better match up.

I am doing this since 2012.

It’s always new and fresh for me, even if the content is stalling.

1- Playing with players is better than playing alone.
2- Finding build that work vs all meta build is entertaining.
3- Playing with new players to find new way to do things is always fun.
4- Trying my best to win match after match make me queue after queue.

I don’t care about REWARDS.

Ananeos.4587:

It does NOT work in this meta. Scrappers have insta cleanse, Reapers will simply throw the condi you make right back at you and Eles couldn’t care any less about you. Probably the only way you hardcounter someone is through Herald.

I’m not talking about forcing it on ME, I’m talking about forcing a build in pvp to be played by explicitly lying to the public to make them think it is actually good.

Meta build:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest

Dark-icon-chronomancer.png
Chronophantasma Shatter

Ether Feast
Portal Entre
Blink
Signet of Illusions
Signet of Humility

Staff
Superior Sigil of Geomancy
Superior Sigil of Doom

Sw/Sh
Superior Sigil of Geomancy
Superior Sigil of Doom

Superior Rune of the Nightmare
Mercenary’s Amulet

This is the meta build. It work to play on far point. Really good versus reaper because the “boon” of this build are on the low side, removing abilities to reaper to burst properly.

More… confusions always took people with condis into a big HELL of damage.

It counter in 1v1 a lot of meta build.

Be prepared to see more of that for the next weeks… until everyone QQ about it.

foogison.5067:

I unfortunately missed the reddit AMA the other day because I was at work, but I had a question that I had been hoping to ask the PVP team.

Does anything go into calculating a players MMR other than the games they win/lose and the MMR of the other team that they win/lost against?

Does the matchmaking algorithm analyze thing like how many points you decapped/captured, or the outcome of solo battles or team fights? What about things like how often a player is fighting on/off point vs. skirmishing?

I strongly believe that basing a players “skill” goes beyond wins and losses, if tournament PVP was based on teams of 1 and 1 then of course it would be a perfect representation, but with 5 players on a team i think that expecting the “good” players to carry 4 others is far fetched.

Are there any plans to expand the MMR algorithm to incorporate new factors related to individual accomplishments within ranked play? I think this would have a HUGE impact on the quality of matches, and would really show players how good they truly are.

I would like to see a system where the overriding factor in MMR adjustments is still wins and loses BUT in the case of a loss, to have each player’s individual accomplishments taken into account so that good players aren’t punished because of less-skilled teammates.

Good question. I want to know that too. Since MMR is affecting our random soloq matchup, we need to know how to work our MMR to get it better.

Well… I don’t like AFK people.

The game can be turned out. I’ve seen match come back from 300 pts differences.

People that don’t push to the best LOST in score, are affecting their (and other team member) MMR down.

Going AFK after 50 pts, is damaging your MMR way more than losing the game properly at 400+. (losing at 400+ versus a premade when you are soloq guys or something, actually give you a MMR boost if the premade had a better MMR than your team)

Reporting as Botting and blocking the guy is usually what I do.

Fay.2357:

This thread exemplifies the history of Mesmer in GW2:

1. Mesmer is not meta in competitive play
2. Mesmer has builds that steamroll bad players
3. Bad players get steamrolled and come to the forums to whine about it
4. Mesmer gets nerfed again
5. Mesmer goes from not meta to garbage in competitive play

Here’s to hoping Anet ignores the baddies and doesn’t execute point 4.

Well if you look more at ESL matches… you will see more mesmers than the last week. Next week, you will see some more.

Actually, if you play the RANK game… you probably find 1 mesmer each match from Diamond and up.

Perhaps you missed it, but here again:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest

The first class in META section, is hybrid mesmer. And it’s not because the admin of this website are Necros…

Well, another post saying that GRIND based RANK system is not working.

Please petition here and give your input:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Skill-based-or-Grind-based-rank-system/first#post6032785

Thank you,

LordCanti.7124:

Was trying to say; will posting here do any good, as to inquiring to membership. :x

I did ask for private message with pvp panel statistic.

I look at my PM each day.

I come on this thread once or twice a week.

Thank you for your interest,

Since you are working to get a SKILL based RANKING system, please +1 this petition.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Skill-based-or-Grind-based-rank-system/first#post6032785

I did quote your idea on this thread, to make sure your idea would be read in that petition.

Thank you,

Here is a great post on how to do a SKILL based RANK system:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Computer-science-approach-to-matching

Written by:

Ponidis The Psycho.8612

As many other PvPers I’ve been thinking about the new algorithm that has submitted me to countless ridiculous losses (funniest I had was something like 500v24) and equally ridiculous wins.

As I said in a previous post, the matching algorithm should accomplish two objectives:
1. give rank based on actual skill (ie discriminate/classify players)
2. make for fun matches

The actual algorithm probably accomplishes #1, at least based on very competent players who got endless winning streak and climbed very quickly. However, I feel that matches are less fun because they are either very easy to win or not even worth fighting. The situation has improved slightly (I feel) the last 24-48h, but I don’t know if this is going to continue and how it is going to end.

My input, as a PhD bioinformatician, would be to consider two additional elements:

1. matches that are very well balanced are most informative at the end: if your prediction algorithm is worth anything at all, then a match ending 500vs100 is probably a huge loss of time for both teams. The algorithm probably already knew what was going to happen and did not gain significant knowledge from this match. However, if team A vs team B is ranked 50% win probability, then the actual output of the match will matter, because the algorithm has no idea what is going to happen (this is what it means to predict 50% win probability, ie flip of a coin).

Obviously, one should integrate some degree of luck/flexibility, meaning that a win at 500vs498 is not the same as a win at 500vs440 (clear win, but balanced match). So, my argument is that closely balanced matches will be fun AND provide more information where it matters, ie between teams that are quite close in skill.

2. The evolution of skill measures could be based on a bayesian “learning” framework. The divisions are built a posteriori after the skill has been computed with reasonable confidence. This is a bit technical, but the basic idea is that players start with a broad range of expected skill. Say their MMR is 2000 /- 2000 (ie from complete newb to pro player). Every match contributes to the refinement of our understanding of a player’s skill as an average but also as a variance: what is the “minimum” skill we expect this player to have at 99% probability and what is the “maximum” skill he could possibly have?

So, progressively, this becomes finer to something like 1650/-500 then 1973+/-30 etc. In order to calculate divisions you just give bonuses and “tiers” every time the minimum at 95% (ie average-variance up to 95%) goes over some preset value or over some quantile (percentage) of the population. Also, you can give out a “pvp present” every day based on where the player stands, for example, so that low ranking players get some daily bonuses after their first daily match or every time their average increases (or their variance decreases).

The advantage of this solution is that there is no need to actually fix tournament dates: a bayesian framework progressively improves the quality of the prediction over time, so you can reset it to zero, if you want, or just let a “perpetual” leaderboard and distribute titles or whatever every month.

Anyway, there is a rich literature on the subject of machine learning for classification and bayesian models but in the end I think it should be feasible to make for tight matches between teams of comparable skill AND also put every player where he belongs.

Let me say otherwise that GW2 is a great game. I hope you’ll find a fun and fair solution!

When you try to do two thing at the same time, you got a problem.

Ranking people on GRINDING Wins to get a reward is bad.

The system should RANK people on their SKILL. The skill should be determined on game you win versus WHO. Like it was in 2013-2014.

Then give a GRINDING reward track for those who want REWARD.

Mixing both will always get problems.

The new MM seems good for the 55%+ MMR players in soloq (or team with a better MMR). For the rest, it’s bad.

Each division got their low MMR player, so even if you CLIMB, you will get stuck in the BAD team. This is UNFAIR. Grinding divisions to get put in soloq with BAD players, is BAD and unfair.

For those LOW MMR, going versus high MMR (and not LOW one), make it HARDER to let them work their MMR higher…

THIS IS TERRIBAD.

Massive NERF? Already happened twice since HoT.

Why do you QQ about condi mesmer when the hybrid version is now meta?
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest

Well… OP do you play Necro and don’t know how to play versus mesmer?

Heard the new mesmer build is meta because necro can’t CORRUPT them without dying to confusions…

1. Make RANK based on SKILLs not GRIND.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Skill-based-or-Grind-based-rank-system/first#post6028077

2. Package the Hearth of the MIST in a standalone MOBA download package and include specialization rotations for FREE players.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/sPvP-needs-its-own-business-model/first

3. Create a FREE sPVP test server for the player based to test BALANCE PATCHES before going live with it. This will give a great place for TOP players to find the new broken OP comp.

4. All Balanced Patches should be followed with MINOR BALANCE tweaks before season is starting.

5. RESET MMR each YEAR. Many high MMR players got there because of their 2014 META build and stop playing. When they come back, they play 2 games and they are back on TOP. This cause some actual High MMR player to drop the MMR chart for obsolete PLAYERS. Many bads got carried at high MMR (playing off peak time hours) and they should get back to where they stand.

Crystal Black.8190:

I personally want it back. I could usually assume that if i play i have to wait the double average. Was pretty constant if average was allready high i porbably just didnt play.

+1 and I want the same.

Loop.8106:

You should however under no circumstances leave your team when they are under pressure. I can’t stress this enough. Even if you manage to say, down and stomp the enemy necro. If you leave while your team is under pressure from the remaining enemies you might cause a teamwipe.

THIS!

But more generally speaking, this guide is really simple:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/49ftqf/conquest_pvp_basic_point_rotation/

Fivedawgs.4267:

Zero counterplay is out!!!!! They did it for the streak !!! 0 games won since S1.

So since Edison team won (Ez Pz), it means that we have a second team out…. which is?

Lordrosicky.5813:

Like really? I played a few games. First time in ages. This is what I found:

1, GW2 is pure spam. There is no skill anymore. Auto attacks do massive damage.

2, I have to play games vs total beginners. Even without trying and having barely played for 18 months its just easy mode. Squashing these idiots every game. Not much fun to just roll these people for me or them.

3, You rank up so slowly. How can anyone play this game ever? The league system is garbage. It should have a system where you play placement games and then get placed in a league suited to your MMR. Instead its just a lazy pip system which is just about grinding and stomping complete no hopers in ranked arena.

So end result…none of me or my friends can play this game because your ranked system is not good enough. Sorry. Not that we would want to play for long though seen as its a no-skill spam game.

Lastly, you have made 1 supported and “competitive” (according to you) map since release. And that was in 2012. No new maps for 3.5 years. That is remarkable.

gg

I don’t like grinding game to wins.

Here is a post about SKILL based versus GRIND based games.

Please +1 and give your comment there.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Skill-based-or-Grind-based-rank-system/first#post6028077

I say the OPPOSITE.

DELETE the GRINDING of WINS to RANK people up.

We NEED a SKILL BASED RANKING SYSTEM.

Put two team of equal skill together.

Let people raise their MMR, raising their rank.

Show that RANK through a bracket system Division Like.

We don’t NEED to GRIND to show that we are BETTER than YOU (even if you are in the legendary division and I am not).

For all grinders, World of Warcraft Arena is great for you. The team that GRIND gears MORE, wins.

Let others game GRIND while our is based on SKILL.

Actually, the Challenger League system, is SKILL based.

This is the only way to compete at high level into the PRO League with a new team.

The other entry point, is if you have the “LUCK” to get recruited by a pro league team to compete with them.

But, all in all, it’s a fair system that reward SKILL over GRIND.

There is 2 problems:

1- Using MMR just for your TEAM. (why doing this if you don’t use for the ennemy team???)
2- Thinking that division is equal of skills.

Solutions:
1- Use MMR for your team and your ennemy team.
2- Remove divisions based on grinds and put division bracket on MMR.

So, now you will get a SKILL based ranked system.

Actually, we have a GRIND based system, where some lucky average player can show they are the BEST. But it’s purely illusions based on GRIND.

More the season advance, more grinders that play badly will goes into high divisions. Legendary include.

The reward need to be grindable, but the rank should be your SKILL level, not your GRIND level.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Skill-based-or-Grind-based-rank-system/first#post6028077

I agree with you partly.

Personal score is not representative of real contribution to a match.

Removing options is always bad. (please stop asking them to DELETE, this is a LAZY solution)

They need to rework it, so the people KEEPING point UP make point for doing so.

IT would mean, each time you fight in range of a point of your color, you got 1 pt / tick.

So, if you 1v1 all game on home point, you will get much contribution than the roamer decap/capping OPEN points.

Which team is out?

Never remove options to your player base. (Anet should learn about this…)

But… give us the possibilities to not have the rewards.

So rewards grinder got all the crap to destroy, while the other can opt out the reward system.

It’s bad to all DIVISION, including Legendary (at the end of season).

All GRINDING ranked system will get bad players that can GRIND wins and be Legendary if they put enough time into it.

It was not possible with the ranked system of 2014 or less.

I have 9k+ games and I assure you that many top 100 players are better than me and have played less games than me.

Ranked should be SKILL based but we got GRIND based ranked league system now.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Metal makes everything better.

…snip…

• Amber would work just like now, and every pip will be metal one that can’t be lost.
• Emerald would get a metal pip every 2 wins.
• Sapphire would get a metal pip every 3 wins.
• Ruby would get metal pips after every 4 wins.
• Diamond would get a metal pip every 5 wins.

This would make the maximum possible wins on each tier go like this:

• Amber: 15 wins in this division is a guaranteed division pass.
• Emerald: 40 wins in this division, and you pass.
• Sapphire: 75 wins.
• Ruby: 120 wins.
• Diamond: 175 wins.

That makes 425 wins to legendary regardless of loses. That would mean that if you get at least 7 wins per day over the 56 days the league is up, you would still get to legendary, even if you lose other 7 times per day.

…snip…

Sorry, the league is actually a SPAMMABLE GRINDING to legendary already. We don’t need more of this.

We need to really have a SKILL based RANKED system, not much GRIND one.

For those that agree with me, please +1 and give more comments here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Skill-based-or-Grind-based-rank-system/first#post6028077

Thank you,

LordOtto.2650:

The most important thing is to not let players team up if they are not in the same division, ever! Why?! Because solo players will carry them, or will loose because of them!
And the match making never should put solo sapphire players with/against ruby players, no mater the MMR! It’s a huge difference in sapphire-ruby, ruby-diamond divisions, huge!

Hmm… well so according to you, my TEAM can’t play together because our thief is not in the same division?

This is more rubbish than saying that GRIND based Divisions shows SKILL.

Don’t remove OPTIONS to your PLAYER BASE if you still want a healthy player base in the future.

AegisFLCL.7623:

So lemme get this straight.

According to some threads Emerald is cursed.

According to others Sapphire is cursed.

Now Ruby is cursed?

I see plenty of people progressing, better yet in my PvP lobby last night there were more Diamond players hanging around than Ruby players; most likely due to our longer queue times.

I had a lot closer matches throughout Ruby, Diamond matches are even closer. Average game time went from about 8 mins to 10-11 minutes. I believe the system is more accurately spreading out players by skill than we think, but without data from Anet no one can truly say and it’s all subjective.

It’s what happen in a system where GRIND is better than SKILL.

Anyone can GRIND to Legendary. They just need more time than the others.

Laserbolt.6731:

So I made this graphic of a “GW2 slot machine”. It illustrates that the matchmaker will quickly throw together a match between two teams who have wildly different playing skill.

As expected, the higher skill team usually wins, and the lower skill team typically loses.

Why a slot machine? Because it is RANDOM as to how close the teams will match, on skill. The matchmaker does not try to make the match close in skill; it mainly wants to just move all the better players up and out of the division.

Yet Helseth presents my slot machine picture, “Now I want you to look at this. Look at this! This is the noobiest thing ever. This is the noobiest thing I have ever seen!”, he shouts.

Because to him, it’s fine to have unequal matchups, you just have to carry your team. And if you cannot carry then you are trash.

Really?

I watched his video and I did learn some things, and I did implement them using my scrapper. And it helped some, but not enough to make my teammates rotate better or win their fights when I was not there with my Scrapper.

I would stare at the score 2 minutes into the game and other than myself and one other person, my team would have 0 points, while the other team was a list of 80 and 100 points for every player.

There is a limit to how much you can carry.

I really want to watch his next, expanded video he promised, to learn more about carrying.

But there seems to be a limit to what you can carry.

I am sorry, this is not enough.

You should put nude toon pick on it and call it the s_ l_ u_ t_ machine where supposed to be skilled players prefer to get easy GRINDS to skill based matchup.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Yes, condi mesmer can carry a team to victory as helseth claims.

The worse is many people in the summer thought I played a trollish build. Playing condi mesmer last summer, did carried my MMR with tops. It’s funny, when one day you are considered Pleb because you played a build and the other day King.

So, any other one want to GRIND to show SKILL?

Or… anyone want to show SKILL through winning the BIG guyz?

What’s best? The guy that play 20 hours a day? Or the guyz that can win versus the top 100 players?

@brannigan.9831
" This needs to be skilled based. I am not even saying this season is perfect but we need to be looking at league position being 100% reflective of skill whatever they come up with."

Thank you for your support!

@vulneraria.4865
The old Leaderboard system was given RANK to player from 1 (the best) to 1000.
Other players, where ranked into percentage. Let’s say 96% would mean you are 4% under to get ranked onto the board.

To get those rank, you simply play games. If you win versus a better team, you get a better rank (and obviously, other had lower rank) if you lost versus a better team but not that much, you get a better rank… well, the pip system of season 1, seems to be inspired from the MMR skill based RANK we had in the past.

So, no need to restrain people numbers of games. You could play 5k games or 200, if you did beat high RANK team, your RANK would be higher.

Agemnon.4608:

I agree with the changes overall but the divisions seem way too tight. How I would do it:

1.Legendary-top 200

2.Diamond-top 1.5%-201 ranked

3.Ruby: 87%-98.5 percentile

4.Sapphire: 70%-86.9%

5.Emerald: 25%-69%

6.Amber: bottom 24%/reserved for either trolls who intentionally throw games to get a rise out of their teammates or persistent people who despite poor hardware (meaning bad FPS and/or connections) don’t care they’re bringing the team down.

So to be in ruby for example you need to at least be better than 87% of the player base.

However, this proposal assumes a decently sized player base and Guild Wars 2 PvP population is quite small.

I agree that my division was probably too tight. I don’t have enough metric to distributed the “number of people playing” and their RANK.

From previous experiences, 2 years ago… people below the 70% wasn’t playing much. It was RANK decay for most.

Between 90% to 99% and 70 – 89% we had a good difference between skills.

Making it :

Legend 1-200
Diamond 200-500
Ruby 500-900
Sapphire 900 to 90%
Emerald 90% to 75%
Amber 75% and down, could be more interesting.

That way we would have TWO different thing to consider.

How to RAISE our rank through skills.
How to GRIND the rewards for Legendary Item.

Eddbopkins.2630:

lolz…..you either qed for stronghold, or youre q needed to be restarted and the fact that you just waited an hour without restarting it is hella funny. i restart the q if it gets over 5 minutes when im solo qing.

Not at all… this guy played into different AG tourney. Probably ESL as well.

So, he is probably Diamond and did queue a moment (1 hour) where not enough Diamond where available (with his high MMR to form his team) .

On losing streak, go play unranked (or other game mode or game). Your MMR would stabilize after a while.

Hard to tell, but volatility of MMR is into that.

Skipping a day of Ranked play, will put your MMR back to where it was minus some points but not as much has the losing streak because of how they manage volatility.

Hammerguard.9834:

He was stealth buffed.

Still not enough.

The Lord should never been able to get kill by a SOLO guy.

They can balanced their PVE right, why not their PVE artifact into SPVP?

This is another problem why GRINDING divisions is a bad implementation.

If Division should represent skill, they should not been GRIND.

Let me tell you, I win most of my matches in Season 2, but it’s boring and not competitive at all.

Please join me in the SKILL versus GRIND petition here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Skill-based-or-Grind-based-rank-system/first#post6020606

So Anet, can fix their RANKED based on SKILL and give REWARDS based on GRINDS.

Jourdelune.7456:
…
Fix the division to the ranking of players:
Give Legendary to the top 1 to 200, Diamond to 201 to 400, Ruby to 401 to 600, Sapphire from 601 to 800, Emerald from 801 to 1000 and Amber are unranked.
…

“Salamander.2504
Do you mean these as a ratio of players? Because 200 players in legendary are not enough to support that league population, and it’s generally known that the top 1000 players on the leaderboards are all legendary/diamond quality, and are within the 99th percentile of players. Can you clarify what you mean by those numbers?”

What? You mean that since I played in the top 200 for many months that I am in the Legendary clan? Well thank you, but no, I am not.

For me Legendary qualities would be not even 10% of the population. Much more like 3% or so.

Well, to answer your question, it’s not a ratio or something. Rank 1 to 200 means the top 200 players of NA. Rank 201 to 400 means the top 400 of NA. And so on.

PErhaps we can rework the categories or the bracket, I don’t mind it. It’s just to give a real indication of SKILLS.

So, even if you play 3k games in 1 month, if you don’t win versus Top 200 Players, you will never get there.

So yes… the GRINDS need to get rework and be so independently of the SKILL Ranking System.

Tarhana.3561:

Jourdelune.7456:

Tarhana.3561:

SO I end up alt+f4 in the games because I lost 10 times ( yes you heard that right) in a row on when my team scores 400s , and sometime I even get on the top 2 or 3 on the score but I CAN NOT GET OUT OF THE LOSING STREAK

If you CAP a point, keep it up. If it’s contested, prevent the CAP.

If you CAP point and run in circle, you will lose all your matches.

If your soloq guyz act like you, you will get that kind of result.

To carry matches, you need 2 points to win, keep them up.

Usually, it’s not the top 1, 2 or 3 glory point guyz that carried your match to victory. It’s the none selfish guy, holding a point that make you win games.

I am well aware of these, its just the frusatration of me being in a team that does not know it, i am not trying to be on top 3, usually dont care, I am a team player and not really good 1 vs 1 combat but still carry good points i think

Cool. It’s your game.

BTW, since you answer me… I will give you some tips. Leaving a match and not coming back will give you dishonor points that fade with time, but they have a big impact on your MMR.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

" Dishonor[edit]
Dishonor is one of the methods used to encourage good sportsmanship. Behavior is tracked in the medium to long range through stacks. Each stack represents a duration that decays over time. Every time you receive dishonor you also receive a timeout. The length of a timeout increases exponentially based on how many stacks you currently have. In other words, your first offense may yield a short timeout, while your 20th may keep you from playing for a much longer amount of time.

While in timeout, you may not participate in ranked or unranked arena, but you can still play in custom arenas.

Dishonor also impacts matchmaking by preferring to place you with other players that also have dishonor. This isn’t a separate queue, but merely a suggestion to the matchmaking system.

It’s possible to have stacks of dishonor without having an active timeout because dishonor decays at a much slower rate.

Configuration[edit]

</Dishonor> "

This affect MMR way more than losing from 100 pts. If you dc, you will get MMR for losing for X points more thna if you don’t + having a counter to accumulated your bad behavior.

So, rage quitting on short term, will soloq random in baddest team than the one you just did flush the drain.

BTW, when you got report for boting or verbal abuse, admin that address those cases will give you Dishonor point too. Usually they will not affect your queue because their timeout-duration is done, but will keep their stack-duration on. Yeah, the effect of dishonor and the STATS of dishonor don’t decay at the same rate.

Resign could be good, but would removed a lot of the “come back” games that I really like.

Even, the guy that start the Resign, if the other don’t agree can AFK anyway.

The real solution is to give all players their OWN MMR. After each fight, each player can see the MMR details with minus and plus points affecting the result. So that way each player would play with responsibility in mind.

Losing games with too much gap, rekt your MMR. And to queue with good random, you need to be good too.

They can even go further like giving the possibilities to keep it private or public, so if you need to show OFF you could, if not you don’t.

they could put a color scheme to explain the difference of each team MMR. So if you got a way better ennemy mmr team, a RED light could make you work harder for that MMR gain… or a GREEN light for low mmr team, would say if you lose versus them, you will get MMR Rekt.

Rebound.3409:

PvP atm is just a gamble. You either get lucky with a good group/classes or u will lose…very very VERY few games are skill dependent

Stop being a victim to the SLot machine.

Form your own group, take your power and destiny into you hands.

Or play unranked where MMR matters.

“invulnerable stomp”

Most of them will prevent you to cap the point. So, when you use this, you need to have another team mate on point, if not a decap can occur.

Stealth Stomp is more effective than invulnerable stomp because you don’t know where the stomper is.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

This is a topic that should get sticky status.
For players looking for team formation or to join an existing team.

1) Classes played
2) Timezone and Region (Na, Eu, etc)
3) Experience metric (Rank, games played, etc)
4) Available hours

I am looking for a team to play with
K pop
Warrior, necro, and thief
Est NA
Able to do est weeknights 9pm- and weekends
Currently ruby, previous team experience, some references here. Although a little old.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/lookingfor/NA-K-pop-war-looking-for-team/first#post6019921

I play with The First Straw. (been formed in November or so…)

They play 8 to 11 EST pm sunday, monday, thursday.

Impact got a new work and could not make it in two week.

Our META stacked team is used to play with a thief for decaps and +1.

TFS strength are communications, synergies and adaptabilities (three member switch to new meta classes).

We are in ruby or sapphire range, with a win/lose ratio of around 70%.

Since I know how you play, I am sure you will be a great fit (if you take training scheduled seriously) with your laid back personalities couple with your strong desire to win.

We are almost ready for AG, but with Impact leaving we will need to adapt to that.

Any skill based system is greater than grind based system for serious PVP players.

It’s important to cater to the grinders and to the serious pvp players. Actually, I think the Season 2 alienate both camp.

So, we need to get RANK based on skills and REWARD based on GRINDS.

Merging BOTH is stupid and is alienating BOTH camp.

Remember… that working his MMR was somewhat GRINDY. You are not reward to do 2k games… but your MMR should be higher after your 2k than it was when we had 15. But the grind didn’t gave anything.

The LEGENDARY ITEM GRIND is NEED but not to compromised the SKILL based rank system (and Match-Making). Everyone want FAIR matches for their LEVEL of play.

It’s one problem of a RANK system based on GRINDS.

Not enough players did grind to DIAMOND yet.

So… you need to wait for the players to come into your division.

Having a Match-Making based on skills and MMR is way better, so the queue time are lower. Why? Because you didn’t divide your QUEUE by 6. Actually… it is divided by 6.

It’s like giving you 6 queue options.

This is bad. We need to get matches to our SKILL level and grinds from there the Legendary Item. Not grinding bad matches to get a PVE useless item (with a bad skin layout that get overwrite).

But grinding competitively our MATCHES into the same SKILL level to get that reward. PLEASE ANET, remove the grind from SKILL and put that grind TO PVE REWARD or TITLE/AA.

Skill based rank system, will give you a better rank if you beat somebody with a higher rank.

A grind based system, will give you a better rank, if you win a match.

Actually, our league system is a grind based system. You need to get PIPS to goes to Legendary, but you don’t need to be good to get there. It can take more times to goes there, but it’s not showing SKILL, it’s showing you get more TIME than others.

I know… Anet want to LURE pve grinders into sPvP to get a Legendary Backpiece pve items. This is because of that objective that Anet, is killing our match making system, killing our competitive community and making any Joe Blow a Legendary player.

I think that luring PVE players into sPvP is a good thing. But luring PVE grinders is not. Competitive system should give you incentives to get better, to play versus better teams and reap the reward of it.

So, I think that having our old Leaderboard 2014 skill based system back would be great to accomplish this.

To get the Legendary PVE Backpiece, I would ask a grind into the Legendary Division of many wins. That’s it.

So, skill based ranking system would remove PIPS from the LEAGUE.

Fix the division to the ranking of players:
Give Legendary to the top 1 to 200, Diamond to 201 to 400, Ruby to 401 to 600, Sapphire from 601 to 800, Emerald from 801 to 1000 and Amber are unranked.

Then we will get our BADGE and Legendary stuff to REALLY show our SKILLS.

Not because we did GRIND the SLOT MACHINE.

Anet will need to change some of the achievement because obviously people will go DOWN from one Division to the others and goes UP way more.

This propositions would remove the dualities of GRIND versus SKILLS and let people know that if you are a Legendary Players it’s because you can WIN versus them (usually
more than 1 time).

Skill based system will help to grow the competitive community, because the REWARD (rank and division) would be given for the SKILL of the player. Incentives to play to get recognition of your SKILL into a game, is addictive because you need to get better (it take time and effort to do). Grinding games into a not so balanced (class and match-making) is not addictive and it is frustrating.

My proposition would cater to the PVE grinders (real hardcore players that want to get better) to get their Legendary and to the sPvP competitive players who want to get the REAL recognition of their SKILLS.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Skill-based-or-Grind-based-rank-system/first#post6020606

I will not comment all your tips. Many are wrong because they are out of context.

For Tempest going into a -1 fight will save the fights because it will get EVEN.

Tempest+Scrapper can hold versus 3 for a long time, meaning your 3 others can keep the two other cap point.

I will give link to Olrun (Never lucky pro team) tips for all meta builds:
https://www.reddit.com/r/gw2esports/

Overall, I agree with you that playing META build is helping a lot to wins matches.

velmeister.4187:

I’d like to join the bandwagon of happy boys praising the matchmaking system if matches actually balanced out as leagues progressed. They do not.

I crawled out of loss streak hell but, some people who rode the fake MMR wave to 3rd and 4th division are now facing the music. I had matches where I got 40-50 scores and I know how exactly it feels. I can commiserate with the folks who simply getting stuck now after a fake ride up. It ain’t pleasant.

The blowouts are real. They do not stop as you go up the division. This was NOT the case last season. I honestly hope ANET comes up with a solution. People are bitter. I hardly ever had a match where people did not say gg after winning a game. This season, after wins, I barely see it. And it makes sense. There is no gg in winning 500-50 or losing that way.

To those who are having hard time, please space out your games. Gather and get rich in between games. Troll the fake riders. Troll ’em hard. Then queue back and win your games. GL.

Well… MMR hell is real for all the divisions. Basically, divisions simply divide the population by 6. Each time you enter a new division, if your MMR is low… you will get random low MMR player in your team.

Over time, it will get good, because the better than average MMR players should raise divisions, meaning the low MMR player will have more low MMR matches that they can win. But…

Here is a solution to MMR hell into all division:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/How-to-get-out-of-MMR-Hell

Why we got there? Because they did remove the feature that match your opponent MMR team to your team. They did this, because that way, they thought that if you are going to be Legendary, it will be because of your skills….

This is a fallacy. Anyone can grind enough games to get Legendary, even low MMR players.

They need to change the GRIND based ranking of DIVISION to a SKILL based ranking and let the GRIND only for the PVE/AA stuff none-hardcore pvp players want to get.

Merging both is alienating the hardcore pvpers and the casual pvpers for different reasons.

Here is a thread about it:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Skill-based-or-Grind-based-rank-system/first#post6020606

@Rolisteel.1375 The old MMR based system in 2014 is similar to unranked. So, the system take people in the same MMR range to put them versus other team with the same kind of MMR range. Once in a while, you got team up versus way better MMR team (or lower) to test your own MMR.

With this system, you should be at the same place in the team you soloq in, but the other team should be in your MMR range, so it would be easier to sustain a 50% win/lose ratio that way.

@Crinn.7864
“However people also like to progress, people want their time and effort to be rewarded, and people really hate being told that they can’t progress farther. Skill based systems however impose brick walls that players can’t progress past, causing players to have a sense of futility.”

Agreed. I did propose a hybrid system, where you need to grind to get a Legendary something…. but not grind to get RANKEd into the system. Our rank in the system should represent skills. Our titles and PVE Items should represent grinds. So the requisite for those is grind… but for your RANKED your skills should prevail.

I think Anet merging the two together made a mistake. I hope they revert that back.

@Malediktus.9250
I understand but player with less skills, was able to grind to Legendary. Having a Legendary Badge, didn’t show how you were good, but how you did grind it.

@BrotherBelial.3094
Partially true. We had a Skill based leaderboard system for 2013-2014. I did follow it daily. I can assure you that people on the top 100 at that time, are still the best of the games. The skill based leaderboard was great to show your SKILL into sPVP.

@ZilentNight.5089
“Could not have put it in better words, also keep in mind the pvp community is extremely small and if you make it a purely skill based system it will De-incentivise the pve players from playing this game mode all together.”

Agreed. The grind should be there for the reward. What I am advocating, is to get SKILL based RANK and GRINDING rewards separated. Like a quest. Or a achievement something. You grind those… but your SKILL should be RANK based versus who you beat (not just a ratio of your win/lose ratio). This “who you beat” thing, is the main motor of MMR attribution.

Many people want to get something meaningful, we need to get objectives to play the game. The Skill based RANKED system simply show your skill. The grind based achievement or quest, give you something. Actually people think that if you are in diamond or legendary you are a skill players…. SORRY. THIS IS NOT TRUE. MANY GRINDERs that don’t have family and work, can’t play better than Mickey Mouse.

@Rolisteel.1375
“5v5 = Skill of the team
1v1 or sometimes being able to solve 1v2 situations = This is your skill.”

It’s still a SKILL based RANKING. Now.. you can soloq grind to Legendary and being into the lower 25% MMR because, you only need to grind more… the grinders will raise anyway. This mean that the ranking of today is not a SKILL of you or your TEAM, it’s show how much GRIND you can put into it.

Into the old leaderboard system, we had:
Rank, Number of game wins, number of game lost, win/loose ratio

Many at the top, didn’t had 10% games of some grinders. But they were there because they were “skill” enough to play with mind like players and beat high MMR team.

To resume the points so far:

Many prefer a skill based ranking.
Most said that having something to grind is need.
Some said it’s hard to evaluated skills.
Most said that bad players with Legendary Rank is common enough that the title don’t mean anything.

Solutions:
Make a RANK based system with your BADGES showing SKILL. (something like 2013-2014 that was good enough to show SKILL of people playing in a TEAM vs TEAM environment).
Make a quest line or achievement line or special rank queue TRACK REWARDS for the Legendary Item grinds.

PLEASE, continue to +1 my first POST and give your comment, more you are to say something and participate, more ANET will have to read and try to figure out why we are all RAGING over the SLOT MACHINE ranking system based on grinds.