Guild Wars 2

@Khailyn

6 bones minioins (not sure where you take 9? from reanimator?) would be so crazy, aka OP. :P

By making them explod, you can hit for around 2-3k each if it crits. that’s between 12-18k burst only from those.

Without putrib explosion, and without any other damage from staff (since activate from bone minion is instant cast) and the combo field.

@Abigor

“Though I would say that bone minion have good damage by itself.”

Talking about bones fiend or bones minions? :P Bones fiend damage isn’t bad yeah, sadly it hard to say right now as it doesn’t attack half of the time.

But yeah, it’s more about the activate that is really bad.

About blood fiend, sure it gives you 20 thoughtness, and can work with some traits. I tried it many time in pvp/wvw, I wanted to use it. But no, If I want to remove condition, I will ether use the staff #4 or CC heal.

@Manticore Five

It could be true, if other class didn’t have abilities that could outheal damage.

Elem, Guardian, Rangers and Engineer (the bunker class I tried in spvp) can all outheal damage in combat.

And I feel that developper took DS as an excuse for balancing us. Sorry, but DS is not as good as people think to tank. Once somoene damage you, your LF will drain really really fast. And in sPvP you don’t have any easy LF source.

Siphon life doesn’t seems to be a traits useful alone. I only use it when I have no other choice and I need to go in the blood trait line. It can still heal for a bit, but it subpar to other heal form others classes.

@Fynd

Last that I heard about gluttony, it was working, but the increase was so small that people thought it didn’t work.

I think once the AI will be debugged, MM build will be a beast.

I did run one for 2 weeks in WvW, and it wwas efficient. I could burst some people down with bone minions. But it was unreliable. kitten AI!

I agree tho that fiend are really weak. Bone fiend is just too slow firing, and you have a long cast time to activate it. You have to be use a spell that will only immobilize 5 sec later, if it ever land. Not sure landed 10% of them in WvW. 5 sec later, most people are out of reach for our slow kitten scorpion.

Shadow fiend is a tank, so right away it’s bad for WvW. You need damage, not tank. With the 50% hp traits , they rarely ever die anyway, except in AoE fest. At least his ability cast time is instant, but it still has a 2 sec wind up for using it.

Edit : Ho and I forgot about blood fiend, it got buffed but it stills not on par with other heal.

CC is our best heal, as it cover both our Cond removal and big instant heal. If traited for it, the well of blood AoE heal for a bunch, can be targeted and can siphon heal.

Our blood friend only pro is short cooldown with traits (16 sec). But you have to cast it, hope it doesn’t die in 2 hit, maybe get 600 hp from auto attack. You consume it, and it heals for a pretty low amount if you compare to others. Ex : it will heal for around 4k on activate, while CC can heal for like 7k and remove cond.

But hey, during the fight, you might need to use it again for an emergency heal! So you have to summon it again with a long casting time, and consume it right awway. Double casting time, for a weak heal.

Necro got really good heals, so even if blood fiend isn’t that bad, it still not used by most necro.

Except maybe pve.

@Mammoth

I listened to you yesterday, and tried some tank build with wells and all.

Build which involve DS swapping : Sure I could bunker a 1vs1 for a long time, but as soon as another one would come, dead. in sPvP, it’s hard to start a fight with a full life force, and your DS HP seems to drop really fast. I had 28k hp and thief could drain my DS in 2-3 sec.

Build with wells healing : Same thing. But it was beter then DS swapping. I could be doing good, but as soon as I was fighting somoene with a knockback, I was dead. Some burst like thief would outdamage my healing and proctection from wells.

Both build had 0 damage at all. I wanted a build that could hold point for a very long point, like I could do with my guardian, engineer and ranger (Raaaaanger!?).

Wasn’t able to accomplish that. I think necro miss that hard dodge/block mecanism to survive longer.

Engi got knockback, block and reflect. Guardian got buff,big heals, shield, knockback. Ranger got infinite dodge, pet block and can still do a good amount of damage.

Like lettuce said in another post, I don’t think necro are made to be bunker. They are just lest efficient then other. We just soak damage, and try to outheal them with long cooldown wells.

What worked better for me was going wells healing and staff traits + damage gear.

With around 25k hp and 2.3k armor, I could dish a large amount of damage and still be tanky a bit.

The playstile is different, you stay behind and throw your marks/wells around. But it was a lot more effective for me.

@Rashagal

Nice post man. Exactly what I thought.

I’m also bored this week. I used 90% of my time in sPvP to try new build and do some pvp training. But sPvP is SOOOOOO boring, can’t wait until we get another match up.

At least yesterday I logged in GoM BL, and we had some good fights. But we still had the number advantage so….

@Leogolas

Use the slack AR are giving you to get some players back in WvW.

@Dakiaris

Sure Dagger outperform Axe right now for a MM, but that’s only because Dagger is a better weapon in most situation. We can agree on this.

Minions aren’t affected by our stats, so a logic statement would be to : Stack defensive stats, so we survive longer and our minions does damage.

You can have 0 power, and your minions will do the same damage. That’s the advantage of a bunker MM necro. Sadly our AI suck right now, but it would be good.

Going bunker, Dagger isn’t the best suited weapon. With Axe #3, you can get a really long retaliation buff. It will do a bit of damage. You can also freely stack vuln to damage your ennemies faster. Axe off hand also provide us with a chain heal and a long lasting slow.

But Dagger #2 also heal, so it’s a good MM weapon too.

You don’t have to use Axe with MM, but I think we can see a sinergy between Axe and MM.

Also, if it’s not a MM weapon, when do you use it? Powermancer? No powermancer would use it over Dagger.

No worries, I also have a hard time putting my thought into word. Sometime when I reread myself, it awful.

I hope that your teamates does a better job then your minions. No kidding.

I think we agree to disagree.

@Dakiaris

The reason why Axe is considered a MM weapon more then any other, is the vuln stacking.

This is the only way to boost our minions damage other then the spite trait.

That’s why most people consider it a MM weapon.

@lettucemode

That’s the point exactly.

The issue is, a bunker necro in sPvP will only be able to take damage, and nothing more.

A Ranger bunker can take damage too, and still be able to output a fair amount of damage.

Our only Bunker with ok damage build is a Bunker MM, but that mean not focusing on Wells, and using bugged AI minions.

Good job Saria!

GoM seems to be a really good server and I hope you get your population back!

Come on Vistal and others,

Don’t start that “We didn’t get any transfer, we are just better” thing. We didn’t get better over one week. We just got our fair weather player backs. Like every server in a winning bracket.

@Lightsbane

The only thing I gotta say in our favor, is that we don’t have to fight BP anymore, it helps a lot to focus our numbers.

And I look forward to fighting BP again. I don’t think we will win, but it will be a lot more fun than this match up.

@GSSBlunaspike

Get over it already, The only one from Anvil Rock that say it’s not about number, are new poster that I didn’t see before. And Godfather because he seems to like to provok.

Every longtimer AR know we have the number advantage, and it has nothing to do with skills.

The difference between AR and BP poster was that we admit numbers are the main reason we are dominating this match up.

Talset.1456:

Axe 1 dps relies on minions and other allies, doing more that other weapons with them and doing less without them.
Axe 3 can give players consistant retaliation against groups of enemies and you can do a passive 450 damage to an enemy every time that enemy hits you. Yes, that means if another necromancer was attacking you with an axe, do nothing and you will defeat him. It also cripples and has a large radius for perks.
Axe 2 is the filler that gives life force.

The weapon seems balanced. If you look at the dps of other weapons you should see that it is not that different. The Axe scales with the same amount of power and crit as everything else so it probably does not need a buff. Axe also has the best trait of all weapons increasing both damage and cooldown reduction.

I would agree that maybe a change is needed such as moving Axe Training trait to Master to be accessible to more builds that want to use axe.

I got a Powermancer kindof build, and I do more damage with my scepter then my axe. Only if I crit a lot, I can get more with Axe. And that’s with really low condition damage.

I tested Axe for about 2 weeks, and I tested every weapon for a long time, with multiple build.

Axe is the weakest of them. It’s not useless, it’s still viable. But you can go Dagger and be a lot more useful.

Here my opinion :

• Axe are 600 range, that’s only for the show, because you’re mostly at melee range. You might as well go Dagger and double your damage dps. Not like you can kit somoene with Axe. Most good player will jump the 600 gap right away.

• Axe seems to be a weapon for MM necro. Sadly, since our Minions AI is bugged, this is our weak build. Since 70% of the time, our minions don’t attack, that a waste for our vulnerability.

• Vulnerability debuff, it need a lot of stack to be useful. It used to be different during beta, but they changed it. I really don’t think it’s as useful as others conds.

• The #1 skill of axe seems to be lacking. Really, no combo, poor range, only one effect and average damage. Add a combo, and this weapon become viable.

• Axe training traits placement. The worse place ever, and it’s hard to change it for somewhere else. If you transfer it to master, MM won’t be able to take the 30% more damage from minion. If you transfer it to novice, you lose the focus training. I think a buff to Axe Training so it would be on par with 20% more damage at 50% trtaits would be good.

Overall, after testing it a lot (I loved the axe idea), I take dagger over Axe anytime.

Are you talking about WvW or sPvP?

I personnally never run a build without CC breaker, so that’s why for me 4 well is out of question.

And I’m not a fan of Mass well, simply because higher level everyone will counter your well by just moving out of it and knocking you back.

Since DD Ele is the new flavor of the month, knock back are quit frequent.

I might also be bad with Wells, don’t like their stil. In WvW I use Well of suffering (not sure the name) and spectral Wall. That’s about it

@titanlectro

Yeah, I don’t know what’s up with the recruiting.

Since we are winning for the first time ever, it seems like we have some people getting overzealous about it.

Stay classy, don’t recruit from others servers.

@Druitt

Spectral Wall is a wonderful utility. I don’t understand why not more people use it. You can stack quit a lot of vuln on somoene.

Tho I something have a hard time getting my protection buff. Like if I cast it near myself, it seems like I have to walk off, then walk back in.

Is there anyone really going with 4 well in spvp?

And what about your damage?

Like you said, the build prolly sucked, because everything was focused around having protection with wells.

Most other bunker build can do it without having to sacrifice all abilities. Elem, Guardian, Ranger just to name few.

Before going any further in that discution, I will test more bunker build for the necro.

But the original post was about siphon heal, and except well heal that can be good, other sipphon seems to be unreliable. Well in my experience.

@ Apocalypse

Discuss with him first, might be an accident. Might have been stuck there.

I once got stuck in a wall, it wasn’t cool.

Care to show me the build for perma protection and regen? It’s not that I don’t trust you, I’m just not aware of it.

Thanks!

Edit : I checked a traits builder, and our only source of protection comes from Wells. 3 sec of protection on 45 traited traited wells.

Who ever is right, this traits is still really bad.

I don’t know if we don’t need the stun breaker, but I agree Spectral armor is lacking right now.

8 sec stability would be awesome. It’s really bad that our only source of stab only come from one grand master trait.

The reason I don’t use Spectral Armor is also the disgustin Cooldown. 90 sec is way too much for an utility like this. Especially since you lose it if you ever hit your DS key.

I find Bunker necro to be better without the Sipphon health traits.

If you use the well healing + Well of blood + DS heavy, you can survive a lot better then relying on siphon heal.

Oh and you just said it, that’s one of the issue for the necro. If you go full Bunker, you won’t be effective. You won’t have any damage output.

While on my Ranger, if I go full bunker, I still get a viable condition damage output. Getting +300 cond damage fron speccing bunker help a lot.

Sheobix, I know you playing a lot with necromancer. But you really think that a 38 hp par hit, is viable if you compare to a 120 hp/sec AUTOREGEN + a 100% up regen of about 100-200 hp? We have to hit something, not them.

@Sheobix

If you think our Siphon heal is good, enought, maybe you didn’t try other bunker class.

With any other bunker build, I had so much more survivability then my siphon necro.

Take the Ranger bunker build, with about 700 healing, regenration build, I can survive 2-3 ennemy at the same time for quit a long time. 1 vs 1 are never ending fights. I regen around 200-300 hp sec. I have nearly infinite dodge. More armor. I also have spirit that cast protection 50% of my hit, and a pet that can take damage for me.

With my necro, I have 38 hp a hit. Since bunker build doesn’t resolve around crit, I don’t take the crit siphon traits. So I can go minions siphon. If they hit (half the time) that’s around 60-90 hp more. If they aren’t dead yet.

I can get a burst of healing with wells if I’m specced for it, but thats like 5 sec of healing? for about 1k if you are inside. And I can have 1 well at most if I use minion. Most of the time you ether choose minions or wells.

So right now I’m with a subpar healing were you have to HIT the ennemy (bad again Thief, and they are 50% of the population) when my ranger can just chill and heal for 200 hp.

But wait! Necro does have Dead Shroud! If you have any LF, because in sPvP most of the time you won’t have much. This will hold for around 3-4 sec. You don’t have any vigor source, maybe one. You usually don’t have any protection source in that build. You have no other way to mitigate damage.

Overall, I’m having a hard time explaining how bad the necro bunker build is if you compare to others. You have to try it to feel it.

Engi Bunker, Ranger Bunker, they are twice as effective as necro.

Since our regen resolve around HITTING people to heal, and we don’t have anything else to mitigate except our DS, we should receive a lot more HP par hit. Right now our regen from siphon is lower then a Ranger regen, which is on 100% of the fight.

@melodyca

Take a break man AR didn’t win a single match up since release, we know the feeling. But you can’t be angry again our Server, as I dislike this match up. I didn’t log more then 5 minute in WvW, it just isn’t fun.

But what can we do?

Sure we got more number, that what happens when you are getting this kind of match up.

• PVE player can finally try WvW.

• Fairweather players come back

• We get fairweather players from other servers to transfers.

• We aren’t fighting two server at once like last match up.

Shall I remind you, GoM had allied with BP midweek to constant attack us. We had been 2v1 for most of last week, so for sure we will be better this week as it’s mostly 1v1. By the way, last week match up was the best WvW times I ever had.

I will be waiting until the week finish to hit WvW again.

GoM you should be happy, I would take your place anytime. I prefert being the underdog then having an all green map. You’ll see, it should be your turn next week. You’ll be matched vs ET and HoD.

And to all Anvil Rocks poster that say we didn’t get any number, we did. And it’s not only PvE or fairweather. It happens for every server, once they get a winning match up. We aren’t different.

Oh and our organisation is still bad.

I look forward to this match up.

I know ET is on a slide, but they might have found their match up! We’ll how it goes.

Good luck Everyone!

boozer.7815:

Warriors have a downed state ability that allows them to pop back up and kill people and are invulnerable to damage. I have seen them countless times pop out of keep doors, go to downed, pop this ability and then just run right through the keep door again before going to downed state again. This is exactly the same thing as our mist form only better, because they can damage people while in this OP state.

Anet needs to nerf this Warrior downed state ability first and then worry about other less OP downed states like the Ele’s.

@Boozer

Vengeance from warrior sin’t the same thing at all.

1- It’s a #3 skill, meaning it’s on cooldown when you are downed. Meaning that if you do the Jump AoE trick and you get downed by the group, you wont have time to use it.

2- When the timer end, they don’t go in downed state. They are dead.

Those two reason are not permitting Warrior to do the Jump + Aoe taking.

@SQLOwns

1. 3 sec is still 50% longer duration then 2 second. That’s a lot.

2. I played every class, no other class can move like vapor form, except like I said Thief that can port but no use gate, and mesmer that move randomly but not far away, and no gate. The only other class that can go thru a gate, are warrior but its a #3 cooldown skill and they die right after, no downed state.

3. Yep. Still doesn’t matter.

4. Won’t be hard to reproduce.

How would it make Ele useless in siege? With staff they are amoung the strongest siege machine. With DD they can still Jump/AoE Combo without dying. If I can do it with my necro, you can do it with your DD hybrid. !

@Mak

Not at all. He continued arguing with everyone.

And he listened to everything people said, and basicly answered to each one of them. He admited some point, renforced others.

That’s was a good thread, good arguments, good counter, only a few people trolling.

I think everything is there, Anet will decide what happens about it.

Oh And also, I read the elem forum often, and I see him post quit a lot here. He make build, help others and all. Somoene else in the threads even said he was a pretty darn good elem. I’m pretty sure he has an Ele as a main.

Bsquared.3421:

Kardiamond.6952:

You might think it’s only because he has such good movement, but don’t forget something :

The entire fight, he had swiftness and vigor up. That’s really big to dodge and move around. Most class don’t have perma swiftness, as well as perma vigor. Actually he has 5 buff up 100% of the time.

Not even counting the 12 sec stability he get at 50% hp.

Just think about target attack. IT’s hard in a high pace fight to land everything. Now with a swiftness/endurance/blinking elemn that heal overtime, it’s a whole other level.

That’s a good point, the perma swiftness plays into his escapability and general shiftiness

Also, clerical correction, but I don’t think dapheonix gets armor of earth at 50% hp (which only carries 8s of stability, and a 90s cooldown) as he has his 10 pts in air for fury/swiftness on aura’s. I believe he’s 0/10/0/30/30 (he definitely has evasive arcana). He’s switched his build up numerous times (especially after the EA nerf) but in the video I posted he has 30 arcane for sure.

Regarding the sheer number of boons that Ele’s have typically (e.g., might, regen, swiftness, vigor, fury, protection, should almost all be up near 100% of the time) that’s a perk of the class. Without those boons our survivability drops substantially (HINT HINT, I’m looking at YOU Necro’s and any other class with boon wipes or conversions).

XD

Oh I thought it was 12 sec, that what I had in mind, My bad my mistake! And I also thought I saw it pop in the video? Would have to check it again later.

Sadly, Corrupt boon isn’t as effective as people seems to think. I used it a lot with a DD Elem I was fighting, it only slowed him down a bit, not like when I cast it on a guardian and he has to retreat.

Each time I cast it on a DD Elem, they cast their boon right up after. And the conditions.. well like somoene said you don’t kill a DD elem with conditions.

@Bsquared

I agree that most of the damage isn’t aborbed or dodged, but him moving away from it.

That a big pros to this build, as it is for Thief. Thief don’t absorb damage, they evade it by jumping everywhere and being invis.

You might think it’s only because he has such good movement, but don’t forget something :

The entire fight, he had swiftness and vigor up. That’s really big to dodge and move around. Most class don’t have perma swiftness, as well as perma vigor. Actually he has 5 buff up 100% of the time.

Not even counting the 12 sec stability he get at 50% hp.

Just think about target attack. IT’s hard in a high pace fight to land everything. Now with a swiftness/endurance/blinking elemn that heal overtime, it’s a whole other level.

@iCrypt

Man a 3 sec cast time would be a big nerf to the Elemental downed state. They don’t need that. The ability is great at it is, The only concern I have is about using gate.

And yes, your #3 downed state should have a tone up. At least the casting time, I rarely ever see an elem use it, because the casting time is so slow.

SQLOwns.7316:

Logged in just for this……I respect your opinion OP, but this is the dumbest topic I’ve seen on this forum in awhile. This is the only decent downed skill the ele has. It only lasts 2 seconds. You can only realistically cast it once per downed state. Can cast it a maximum of 3 times because of downed penalty. Mes, Necro, War, Thief I believe all have escape down skills similar. Have you played any other class? It seems like you really haven’t given this much thought at all. Not to mention that an ele rushing into a zerg, just planning on using vapor form to get away isn’t going to do much damage anyway.

I respect your opinion SQLOwns, but that is the dumbest reply I’ve seen in this thread. (see what I did there! :P)

I shall ask you the same question : Did you play any other class? Or did you even play your claqss? :P

First of all, Vapor form is 3 seconde duration, and not 2.

Necro doesn’t have anything that remotly looks like Vapor form. They have a 1 sec fear, and an AoE poison.

Warrior got vengeance that is a #3 abilities, so can’t be used right away. And if they don’t kill anyone, they just die at the end.

Mesmer, they have an illusion that will port them like 200 range away. Only similar because you move with it, but it’s really limited and can’t control it.

Thief, they have a limited teleport, and a stealth. That one is the only one that could compare. I don’t think they can use gate tho.

Not doing much damage? How? My elem friend can combo for nearly 11k AoE with bleeds. I gotta say that’s pretty good damage. Most AoE class can do crazy damage when jumping down, and Elem is part of them.

They don’t do more damage, that’s not what I’m arguing.

But they do it near-risk-free.

Have a good day.

Edit : kitten Creslin.1758 beat me to it

Never happened to me? Weird.

@iCryptik

It’s not how it works. If we would wait for bugs to be fixed before balancing, we wouldn’t be balancing before years.

I don’t mind a really powerful ability, that’s ok.

What I have difficulties with, is a free escape when you have been DOWNED. You already have been outplayed, you got downed. Sure you can still have a chance. But a free out of jail card?

You already said it, any competent Ele can jump down and AoE everything and come back. Why does it need something like that?

And it also work in sPvP as mentioned prior.

“The only time vapor form is useful is when defending a keep or running away from a mob to friends, and hoping they can get a rez on you.”

For a #2, that’s a lot more then most other class. Want to trade it for a 1 sec single target fear? Or a 1 sec pull with casting time?

The only reason why I started contributing to this thread, is because I saw this happen a lot in WvW, and I agree that this is a cheesy tactic.

@kusanagi

I think we will have to test it, as we have a lot of different fact about it. And even if you can be rooted, don’t forget that this tactic goes with 2 Dodge! You have to keep your dodge for one you are coming back, if you want the perfect chance to survive. 2 dodge is enought for a free 2-3 sec run, thats all you need.

The only thing that can block you, are guardian. And some said the wall block could be jumped.

And personnaly, I can’t do as much damage from tower then when I’m AoE ing melee after jumping.

It’s supose to be more risk, more reward.

iCryptik.1496:

Kardiamond.6952:

@Arheundel

I don’t die to BS thief.(thought I hate fighting an invis ennemy0
I don’t die to shatter Mesmer.
I surely don’t die to HB warrior.

But I die to good player, and have yet to counter Elem D/D. Note that I ddn’t say they were OP, but they for sure got something, since you see them pop like preteen at a Justin Bieber show.

What I get from this is that you know how to counter:
*A BS Thief
*A Shatter Mesmer
*A HB Warrior

I have two good friends, one plays a engi, one plays a necro. They have both learned how to counter my attacks through sPvP.

It seems like you may need to practice with a friend.

Also, unless spec’d for it, Ele’s have limited condition cleansing.

I’m not sure everyone talk about the same build here. When back at home I will have to check for it.

But yeah, I practicing with my Elem friend. Tho, I gotta say, it’s a lot harder to counter then a HB warrior (1 dodge/DS) or a BS Thief that are both one trick poney.

But not everyone is willing to do that. Most class don’t have a “to counter me you have to play me” build. I’m sure Ranger would love to do that.

If they ever nerf DD build, they should buff other weapon as much.

@Arheundel

I don’t die to BS thief.(thought I hate fighting an invis ennemy0
I don’t die to shatter Mesmer.
I surely don’t die to HB warrior.

But I die to good player, and have yet to counter Elem D/D. Note that I ddn’t say they were OP, but they for sure got something, since you see them pop like preteen at a Justin Bieber show.

Creslin.1758:

LordByron.8369:

ignore them they are baseless and completely lacks data….

Note they always ignores on how other classes can do exactly the same but better…..

Any eng can stop that tactic…
Any mesmer can stop that tactic
Any necro can stop that tactic

Don t know other classes well enough.

NERF engineers, necro, mesmers

No one can stop this tactic. We have gone over this in this thread over and over. You lose all conditions on downed, vapor form immediately, and then can’t be CC’d. I just confirmed this yesterday…tried to root an Ele in mist form and it said “Invulnerable.”

There is no other class that is immune to dying outside of towers. None.

It is a stupid, cheap tactic, and any good Ele should realize that, abuse the heck out of it while it’s in, but know that a nerf should be coming at some point.

Wow thanks for testing. I thought we could root them. What about people telling us they were getting rooted? It there a special root that affect it?

It’s making it even worse.

@LordByron

Your argument is baseless, please we are trying to have a discution about it. I’m not calling for a nerf myself, just leaning to this side.

Only @SuiRyuJin throw in some counter argument and seemed to understand the OP post.

Other class can’t do better,

We aren’t talking about being able to jump, aoe, and go back in the door. Every class can do that. We are talking about doing it, failing (as being downed) and still having a free escape with #2 downed state and 2 dodge.

Please explain how Eng, mesmer and necro can counter it? Both my necro and Eng can’t do it. I don’t play a mesmer, but they don’t have any special counter? Might be missing something.

Don’t forget that to use this tactics, the Elem has to keep is endurance full. So that has soon as he is downed, he cast #2, dodge twice and is at home. That leave him practicly invulnerable. They can get rooted for maybe .25.50 sec.

Read the complete discution, we went over this already.

@kusanagi

I don’t think you understood the OP, might be just you misreading it, or a second language issue.

We are talking about the downstate skill Vapor form, not the defensive cooldown. You practicly can’t be rooted if you use it right.

And it doesn’t have anything to do with killing people on the wall or siege.

Necro didn’t really get any buff, except to some utility like spectral graps. Nothing making necro any better.

But people are slowly learning the class. Or you might have fought some really good necro

@Bsquared

You have to build it hybrid. I had the build somewhere at home, but I don’t have it right now. My friend use it, and trust me, he doesn’t have any DPS issue, nor mobility.

You have to balance it, and use your heal/boon effectivly.

Will try to find it back when I get home!

And yeah it’s not about being OP or not, because that very hard to judge from players point of view. Too many factor (player skill, counter and ect).

But it’s about all the whinning, like I keep saying, the whinning train is coming. Mostly because there seems to be a wave of DD Ele, not sure why.

I think it’s overkill to have dagger #4 and plague signet. Especially since plague signet actually copy the cond, and don’t remove them from ally. (only the first one I think)

You lack any kind of defensive mecanism. That must be the reason you are dying a lot. You are all offence, few defence except DS.

Spectral walk is a skill most people use, it will grant swiftness and break stun. Also, generate LF on hit. So when you run away, you pop it, even if they hit you, you can cast an emergency DS with the lifeforce.

There is Spectral Armor too, but the cooldown is awful. Seriously I don’t understand why it has a 90 sec cooldown.

I use Flesh worm, but that’s a personal preference. You won’t have any swiftness so it shouldn’t be your first choice. But it’s a stun breaker and a really solid escape mecanism.

And finally, you can make a power/prec/vit spec, but you should keep some cond damage. Hybrid at least. Scepter is still good even if not cond specced. #3 skill of scepter can hit for a good amount on a hybrid spec.

Good luck!

@LordByron

I told you the whine post were coming

And why people are talking about 1 Ele wouldn’t do much doing this again a zerg. Yeah well, most people can’t do much alone vs a zerg? Why don’t you scale it. 5 Ele jump down and drop Aoe in the zerg. That will do some crazy damage.

Some combo can hit for 11k + bleeds. Factor it x5.

Nothing OP, but every effective.

Now add a no risk factor, and It may be OP.

@Solori

in sPvp you are prolonging the inevitable a lot longer then most other class. Vapor form is no lackluster downedstate.

I just have some issue with a 0 risk advantage.

LordByron.8369:

you have more heals, more risk and lower dmg output……but most of all you are stuck in short range…this is a huge drawback people seems to forget.

More risk? How the hell do you have more risk?

I’m a dead weight for my DD Elem friend, because he can hit and run any group of 5-10 player without much risk of dying.

Sure you have to go in range, but you can also get out of there really fast.

D/D ele with thief prolly has the best mobility in the game. Shouldn’t be an issue to hit and run for you.

Oh a Prediction : don’t underestimate the players. People hate to be killed, but they hate even more not being able to kill somoene. And if a good DD Elem don’t want to die, he won’t die. So you’ll see the wave of crying popping on the forums. Just give it some time.

Arheundel know too it’s coming, that’s why he is doing this post.

Elem, Brace yourself! Hope that they buff your other spec and not nerf your only viable one!

@LordByron

There was a post about it on the WvW forum.

You don’t see it yet because it’s a new popular build. But it will soon be a FotM.

This build is 2x as effective as other Elem build, especially with all the healing. An Elem not builded like it is prolly shooting himself in the foot.

I don’t know If it’s OP yet, as those I fought to this day were very very good player, so it’s hard to judge.

But for sure, Other Elem build/Weapon set should be modified to be OnPar with this DD build.

Nice build!

I tried something similar with Axe,dagger and minion not long ago. Interresting build!

tho, I think Axe vuln stacking is a bit slow and weak. For a near melee weapon, I rarely used #1 auto attack, I used #4 focus to stack to vuln, then #2 for damage and switched to dagger(or #3). But since you use staff, it’s different.

But with all those vuln buff, I bet a dagger over a staff would do crazy damage. But you have to sacrifice your range, and not everybody want to do that.

Oh And what do you think of Death shiver trait? AoE vuln staking in DS?

Personnally I didn’t like it at all. The vuln stacking is really slow and only stack 1 vuln charge each 3 sec. I didn’t think it was worth it.

Good job<!

Weren’t then?

I knew it! :P

They are, but having fear last too long wouldn’t be good for us ether. People would complain.

lower the cooldown, people wouldn’t rage over it.

@Kirrund

Well actually, doing that kind of acheivement with a thief is really easy.

Like @jkctmc said, people won’t target you because you are invis half of the time. And nobidies like fighting invis, so they will aim for something else.

Add to this your incredible mobility, and crazy damage without real cooldown, and you have yourself a winning combo.

Try to do that in sPvP tho, it will be a lot more impressive.

SuiRyuJin.4615:

lol, u didnt even bother looking at the other 2 skill i provided. ring of warding is a line of warding but in a ring and in a different wpn. shield is an aoe knockback that i am not sure effect vapor form but it might. if we want to go even more tome of wraith with judgement might also be workable, dunno on that.
ranger skill entangle might be viable also, not sure on that. other class that have aoe knockback that doesnt require a target or dmg also have a shot at working. there is no need for amazing reflexes. see ele come out, get rdy to drop the block. ele is down, drop the block. vapor form doesnt last THAT long. as for the knockback and root, well yea those require a little more skill. but thats the perk of being an ele, u for once get to make other classes work a little more. wish there a line of warding for stealth… oh wait.. theres nothing for stealth.

the obvious fact that people dont know these counters mean vapor forming into gate is not even an issue. if it was people would be digging left and right for counters so they can do something about it whiling waiting for anet to fix

and sure, ill take any advantage i can get when faced with game breaking skill and ability on the other side. when those are more down to level we can start taking the tiny little advantage from other classes which uses it to semi even the playing field.

Yuo didn’t understand what I mean by defensive cooldown.

And by the way, If a thief jump in front of the game, he is dead for sure. What’s your issue with them? Yeah in the open they are pretty hard to kill, but in front of the gate, alone, in a bunch of player? When you know he will run to the gate?

Just unload in that direction, he will be dead.

You can’t do that to Vapor form, you also can’t knockback if he is dodging. That only leave us 2 skill, one class that counter. And you have around 1 sec to use it, and for one of them you have to be in position inbetween to do it.

You say it’s not game breaking? Then removing it isn’t game breaking ether.

@Arcades

Never saw a 5 second knockback? Who does that?

Engi/Elem main knockback also knock them to the ground. And most KB only last about 2 sec.

Our fear would be a problem for most people if it lasted 2 sec untraited. we have more then one source of fear.

People hate losing the control of their char, just like you hate being used like a ping pong ball by Ele/Engi. That’s why I would prefer a lower cooldown over a longer CC.

People would cry too much about it. Like they cried about Warlock fear in WoW.

SuiRyuJin.4615:

i love how i bring out a few more example of more effective skill as compared to ele’s vapor form downed for seige defense and it is completely ignored.

A. a good seige defense completely destroys any attempt at ram on gate, if u can ram a gate to death, that tower/keep isnt well defended. most of a time, an D/D ele is inconsequential to stopping the ram.

B. i am curious if anyone else has tried it, but its possible that certain aoe knockback work on vapor form ele also besides line of warding. have u tried shield of absorption and ring of warding? 2 more skill from 2 different wpn on guardian. if it works, a guardian should always have access to 1 of those 3 wpn so thats plenty of hard counter. 1 class for 1 class. i dont know all the class well enough so its possible other class have a niche skill that stops vapor form. people just dont bother to experiment enough simply because its not worth the effort.

C. as i said before, there are tactics to counter certain skill, its no my fault u think oh, i cant ram the gate because this guy wont die, this must be nerfed. use a cata, a ballista, a treb. hell even a golem, i would love to see a D/D ele trying to kill that golem with people ranging him. and if u arent ramming the gate, u shouldnt be in range for a D/D ele to come kill u, and then vapor form back. only the mindless zerg will be doing that and skill balancing should not be based on mindless minions with no tactic

and if u want to go on WvW forum to post this, feel free wonder how fast the thread will fill up with points on how many other cheap tactic there are while this is 1 niche skill for 1 occasion.

Because all the example you give are defensive skill, the same skill that Elem also have. If you did an AoE jump from the wall and you got downed, it’s because you did a mistake.

Elem also have mist form prior to getting downed, and other Defensive cooldown. They can run for it, cast AoE, use defensive CD and come back.

Sure it works, like every other class pre mentionned.

But if you do a mistake, you can get downed.

Warrio, Mesmer and Thief are done as soon as it happen.

Elem? They just cast there #2 downedstate and run inside.

They have 2 layer of security, the second one being nearly impossible to stop.

That’s different, and that’s the issue. Not only do you have to down them, which can be hard, but you also have to immobilize them during the half second they arent dodging in vapor form.