What is op is what is overrepresented (see mandatory for success) in high level pvp.
In this definition everybody will admit :
1) Revenant is OP as hell
2) Tempest & Engi are coming after
3) Mesmer is not in a bad spot
4) Dragon hunter is in poor spot (not so surprisingly for me)
5) Warrior has disapeared
6) It is not worth talking about vanilla classes (due to classical opness of last stuff delivered on grindy mmo games)
Do you play DH? Or it´s a joke?
Because i see always 1 or 2 DH per team and they have all the time a really important impact on the bg.
Reapers obviously are not most dominant profession in pvp. So it is possible that it gets hurt by the nerf bat.
Revenant on the other hand ….
Anet’s elementary logic
It’s not only the support that revs are giving but also the fact that they have one of the best sustain of all classes playing as marauder (competing with scrapper).
Anet thinks grinding for new op stuff is the way to provide content.
The change (read betrayal) to previous policy was too quick…game is full of emptyness now.
People are still talking about dh ?
True shot is a far inferior version of coalescence of ruin.
Higher cd
Lower damage
Reflectable
Not 5 target aoe
Rooted while channeling
All of these on a weaker profession than revenant in term of mobility / sustainability / support
the fact is rev has the strongest range autos in the game right now, kitten they might even have the strong autos period. Massive range, deflect,evade and tbh the #2 skill is strong as kitten aswell
At least hammer are not projectile contrary to rangers and DH….and hammer two is aoe.
Thus they can mindlessly spam without drawbacks.
To summarize:
-highest dammage
-not reflectable
-aoe
-1200 range
-2 sec cooldown
-oops I was about to forget to mention rev can move while using the skill
But clever people will tell you that it is easily avoidable. True shot is the skill that deserve a nerf….just lol.
What is op is what is overrepresented (see mandatory for success) in high level pvp.
In this definition everybody will admit :
1) Revenant is OP as hell
2) Tempest , Ranger (forgot this one sry) & Engi are coming after
3) Mesmer is not in a bad spot
4) Dragon hunter is in poor spot (not so surprisingly for me)
5) Warrior has disapeared
6) It is not worth talking about vanilla classes (due to classical opness of last stuff delivered on grindy mmo games)
Do you play DH? Or it´s a joke?
Because i see always 1 or 2 DH per team and they have all the time a really important impact on the bg.
Yep, trolling
Not at all…look at ESL tournaments…there is less and less DH and winning team do not have any.
Orange logo has left his guardian and is running 2 revs.
Fifty five dragons has no DH too.
Tonight I only saw one DH which teams has been rekt.
Abjured has no DH neither.
All what i see is Two revs team destroying everything.
What is op is what is overrepresented (see mandatory for success) in high level pvp.
In this definition everybody will admit :
1) Revenant is OP as hell
2) Tempest ranger (correction) & Engi are coming after
3) Mesmer is not in a bad spot
4) Dragon hunter is in poor spot (not so surprisingly for me)
5) Warrior and thieves (correction) have disapeared
6) It is not worth talking about vanilla classes (due to classical opness of last stuff delivered on grindy mmo games)
Very famous esl player are bandwagoning to revenant
It started with phantaram who with his op dd ele as rev is very good in sustain.
Then sidreneer left his thief for rev as its mobility is game breaking.
Finally tage left his guardian as sustain damage at close and range is unrealistic.
But yes people keep talking on dh…
Be aware that at worst period of the profession tage kept playing guard (he was almost alone).
This is not the case anymore…for me this is pretty telling. It is kind of as if helseth would leave mesmer.
It’s funny how some of these posters have stayed quiet.
OK I decided before go live to stop raging at dh spec.
Today we see plenty of dh and even in esl tournament.
Did I change my mind…not at all…still can’t see how dh succeed in pvp. And dh are the profession i am the less scared about.
Figures have been increased but mechanics and trait synergies are lackluster.
Cele amu give 4480 stat points and berserker 4 example is only 3000 thats why.
And yes if u are a necro or an ele u are forced to use it cause u dont have anhoter build option if you wanna win a fight.
And yes there are kitten loads of unviable viable builds. Well not too much since the new trait system..
A bit of PvP history for you.
We had the Zerker meta. People were making 5 QQ posts a day because of all the “Instant burst 1 shot builds takes no skill” posts. Anet deemed it unhealthy (their exact words) and wanted to change the meta so they introduced Cele amulet.
Cele amulet used to have the same stat to stat ratio as other amulets. It got buffed because it was utterly useless on every class. Concequently, other classes got buffed such as Elementalists trait cleanses in the process of this change. We got the Ele – War – Engi Cele meta. (April 2014)
A recent patch changed the meta further, engi and war were no longer powerful on cele except Ele – Ele’s might stacks got nerfed shortly after burst mesmer did to put them in line, some what.
Look at the history. They put a lot of work in having the meta be where it’s currently at thanks to the QQ posts that zerk meta brought.
Team comps in the zerk meta era consists of condi 1v1 builds, a bunk guardian that every team had, and zerker builds
Team comps now, are made up of cele, zerks, marauders, soldiers and/or even cleric bunker sustains. You can even work in 1 carrion build in the group and that’s burn guard. The meta is more diversed than it has ever been.
I don’t see how meta is more diversed than ever with five ele team stopped only by an esl tournament restricting rule (at least three professions per team required now).
Now we have always cele dd ele everywhere stacking 2 or 3 in the most cases
If you could not spread your salt around, that would be great.
It prevents actually useful things from growing.
Like revs ?
Lol ok sorry you are right i am salty…but seriously it is hard not to be … we have invested time on a toon whith a role..we are not asking for top supremacy but just be good at what we were designed for and we are just put on the complete lackluster side for a long time…for marketing obvious reasons..this is bad approach…
But you are right i’d better stop because their decision has been taken a while ago and won’t change for sure.
well if it breaks guardian it is good for their plan : have the mass of guardians rerolling to new toons.
So don’t count on them to repair anything before 1 or 2 years.
We have been given dh … that is pretty telling.
If you want to enjoy the game ..play a profession which is getting lovely attention: revenant in first place
I hear ya, leap of faith+JI was my personal favorite.
Feels like a lazy fix
Lazy…this is exactly the single consistency you can find accross all guardians changes:
cd reduction
copy paste of existing mechanisms
fix which break 5 time more than it fixes
number tweaking
dragonhunter its a support back line not a dps class , u need to analyze the strenghts of the class , i find it amazing for wvw.
That would be fine…but please tell me the support it provides ?
Block with f3 => revenant hammer is far superior.
Control ? => no way the longbow 5 is efficient enough. there is no longer and more telegraphed control skill in this game. in top of that it roots you an eternity.
Cripple…so subpar to the soft cc a necro can bring.
Boon sharing => classical guardians and rev do it much much better.
..
So please tell me what I did not manage to see in two complete bwe.
And to be honest what you say is somewhat contradictory to the selfishness anet was supposed to provide to dh.
what support it brings? :O
Ok Dragon Hunter for WVW :
U go staff / bow and in a back line party , eles or gank :
- Empower (might stack)
-Symbol of swiftness ( spd / range poke)
-Line of warding (wall)
-Purification (blind the frontline )
-Wall of refletion (reflect projectiles)
-Stand your Ground (stab)
-Fragments of faith (cripple + aegis for your frontline )
-Dragons maw ( wall)
-Wings of Resolve ( Great heal with a gap closer on it + condi clear on a low cooldown)
-Shield of Courage ( projectile block+ stability)
-Hunters ward ( wall )
-Puncure shot (constant Cripple on 2 targets )
Thats all i can remember right now , Dragon hunter don’t compete with any class for the role , create a role for itself , right now there is no such a thing like a backline support , with so many walls , traps , heals and utily skills that’s why i believe that dragon hunters will be amazing for wvw.
Thx for this constructive remark.
One comment however important stuff of support you talk about is from classical guardian lines.
Rest of the stuff is at the cost of utility: no more fmw or elite focus.. no condi clear on a shout for a trap for a gain I have doubts: aegis on trap will not be a relyable way of providing it(first needs to be triggered second needs teamates on fragments)
And finally bow is no go for the duration it roots you on 5.
I sincerely hope I am wrong.
If teams are not runnig 4 ele anymore is just due to esl rules which have been updated in emergency to force teams to have at least 3 professions represented.
Ele everywhere (stacking the profession in most of the cases)
1 thief per team everywhere.
Outside of these two it is a mix of mesmer warrior engineer
Sometime you can have a guard a necro.
Seing a ranger is like seing a comet: almost never happen and disappear immediately.
dragonhunter its a support back line not a dps class , u need to analyze the strenghts of the class , i find it amazing for wvw.
That would be fine…but please tell me the support it provides ?
Block with f3 => revenant hammer is far superior.
Control ? => no way the longbow 5 is efficient enough. there is no longer and more telegraphed control skill in this game. in top of that it roots you an eternity.
Cripple…so subpar to the soft cc a necro can bring.
Boon sharing => classical guardians and rev do it much much better.
..
So please tell me what I did not manage to see in two complete bwe.
And to be honest what you say is somewhat contradictory to the selfishness anet was supposed to provide to dh.
Just want to say that there are those who love Dragonhunter.
Traps are AWESOME! Crazy powerful.
You have already lost all credibility.
Thematically, they are similar in concept to Necromancer marks, but use Smite magic fitting for the Guardian.
Except Marks are far superior in every way.
Spear of Justice is vastly superior for a condition build.
This is proof that you do not understand this class, Spear of Justice is TERRIBLE for condi builds. To play a successful condi Guardian you go Virtue traitline and NEVER use your F1, you rely entirely on the passive effect and the traits that buff that passive.
The Dragonhunter traitline is very good.
Stop… please stop. My head hurts.
This
I am really concerned about these people feeling dh is somewhat good.
It is as if we do not play the same game.
I am mostly pvp / wvw (roaming and raid)
I have been trying kitten dh with meditation with traps or even with shouts on tanky and dps builds…everything is just a huge blast of innefficiency.
Crappy damage at the cost of loosing efficient sustain and support.
I still don’t get how people manage to get high damage on longbow 2. With the time of chanelling I have same dps landing two aa in the same time.
Virtue casting time is a massive nerf to our survivability. (remember that positionning in gw2 is of very litlle added value with all insta teleport flying around)
Rooting skills is just a nogo on any semi correct oponent.
Traps…I see one thing efficient for trap which is bad design to be honest : test of faith with 10 dh staking it it can be a zerg killer. While subpar in almost all other scenario it will be nerfed to uselessness without compensation as usual.
How on earth can people enjoy the hypothetical new content that is about to be given to us ? I really hope I am mistaken…because otherwise hot will just be a “thank you guy but reroll to enjoy”
This I am not pleased to feel forced this way and will not commit.
i can review dragon hunter in ONE word as a guardian player.
WUT !?
That review is actually a quite useless review.
Back to OP, nice post and I mostly aggree with you. Dragonhunter is a very nice spec (at least for PvP) and doesnt need big changes IMHO.
If you feel dh is nice for pvp you obviously disagree with Op.
To OP you told us at the start of your post that pretty nice things were available on dh.
But at the end of it I did not notice them:
- pve bad (only good for solo)
-pvp meh(dh not at its place)
-wvw useless
You can try to polish a kitten all you want but Dragon Hunter is a bad elite. What is good about the bow really and what traits make it good exactly. You can wish all you want. Bow 2 is horrid for pvp anything that takes a second channel and roots you in place has no play in spvp if all its going to do is like 3-5k damage with a crit whoopee if you somehow manage to hit with it. Five has a 45 second cooldown for pete’s sake. 3 is a copy and paste blind on hit and ridiculous projective block lol what kind of timing you would have to have with this to actually block a projectile. Look at ranger bow it has rapid fire and the shot that gives you stealth thats 2 abilites way better then anything Guardian Bow has. Give me at least one superior bow ability and then maybe we can talk. I dont even need to bad mouth the traps when we cant even get past how bad the bow is but really not burning on any of the traps or chill? Id love to talk with the devs who designed this and ask them what makes Dragon Hunter good. See thats the thing they should have to explain to us why its worthwhile. I dont see it all. Trust me this one will be one of the elites they are trying to tweak for a long time.
They won’t tweak…they just don’t care…because otherwise they would never have managed such a kittened copy and paste from what are the weakest and skilless skill: traps.
They would not have created such slow skillless and high cd skills on bow too.
If they wanted to troll guardians they would have not done it another way….maybe nerfing ji….oh wait….
Dragon Hunter is another Ranger with Longbow and Traps and it’s not good, no new idea on this profession.
Why do you choose the word “Dragon”?
I think it’s better only call it “Hunter”.
By the way, the new Virtues are really good
Well I had some success killing rabits in wvw…that’s pretty all.
We could call it rabit hunter. I feel it would match much better with what it is good at.
Dragon sounds a bit…optimistic to say the least.
I still don’t get were new virtues are good at.
f1 dodged 3 time out of 4
f2 interrupted 1 of 2
f3 while emergency is of no use…only somewhat good when you don’t really need it (at range and attacking)
Well the only constructive advice I coud give:
If you have the idea to lazily copy and paste existing mechanisms that do not work and are no used… try to find another one.
I more and more think you switched Guardian and Ranger spec because you estimated DH was garbage and you could not give it as originally planned to the most left alone profession : ranger. I remember you were talking about stance for Guardian. The stance came to the ranger.
This is a double fail:
-Guardians didn’t roll guardian to become rangers and so did rangers for not rolling guardians.
-Demon hunter is still trash (you can put 50 k damage on 2 it will still be obliterated with its subpar defense)
So to summarize…less laziness next time please.
Our feed back are reused for other professions (see revenant shield / ranger heal).
So now it’s time for the customer to become lazy.
None. But revenant wasn’t designed for being good to something but for touch to all= Jack of all trades. Others classes do better that revenant but can"t be versatile like the revenant is.
I’ve seen some people complaining as to why it got changed and they want it changed back as Hammer+JI does not feel good anymore (not that anyone should be using hammer in sPvP after the glacial heart change anyway but thats beside the point).
The reason it was changed and probably not going to be reverted is because of the new WvW map and perhaps even due to some areas on the new PvE maps. JI broke falls and not just minor little jumps but death falls. There was some videos after the WvW beta which showed that along with some weapon swap super jump bug, there were spots in the fire keep where you could fall from above the keep (fire keep is underground) and use an enemy inside the keep to break your fall before you would die. This exploit is the reason the functionality was changed.
Preventing JI while jumping ok but while channeling a skill it simply breaks medi guards so hard
it was in the patch notes, so it was def intentional.
i mean, i think it was technically possible to jump off a cliff in wvw, and just before hitting the ground you JI into a rabbit or something, but that was not easy to pull off
Preventing JI while jumping should not be the same than preventing while channeling a skill (even in animation looks you are in the air)
What they did here is terribad. It makes hammer medi guard complete garbage.
Meanwhile cele dd ele still op as hell (little adjustmeent on ROF / Vigor)
Since last patch it is not possible to use JI in the air.
It seems to have consequence on skills like mighty blow which prevent now from activating JI while casting this skill.
This remove an interesting gameplay (read ruins it) from medi guard which I think is not intented.
Could you confirm ? And if yes could you fix it ? This really hurts.
Note : it seems also to be the case with the leap of GS.
Ele nerf? check
Ranger buff? check
Necro bad stuff buff? check
so on and so forth. It is a good patch.
Ele nerf is a bit quick.
ROF looks better now at high level. It offers less counterplay to necro and is better at initiation. Ele sustain is still unmanageable with just a tiny vigor and blind spam adjustment.
Nope d/d is just fine. They lost at most 6 stacks of might for 5-10 sec, 3 stacks of might average. Not much else changed..
but the renewing stamina change is a ridiculous nerf for zerk eles.
This is a major trait we have to choose, not a minor with the line. What about this reason it wasn’t equalized with the other the vigor traits?
If the point is to cut cele eles dodges, it should have either been by drastically reducing the vigor on soothing disruption (cantrip vigor) or get rid of it completely.
With the new trait system, could someone please explain why some people keep coming arguing on major minor and master traits ?
Wtf is difference now ?
Before it was availibility. Now it is the same. So please stop asking to get better master than minor. Only what matters is to have a good trait spread accross the 3 levels.
I f you make the sum of mockery it is getting laughable:
-Demon Hunter => complete garbage
-Meditation guardian nerfed heavily for unknown reasons
-Boon sharer being sub-par to revenant
-Healer no able to compete with druid
-Traps as utility
I am just wondering what they are waiting for providing better aegis sharing on another profession. They missed this one. For the rest it is a perfect.
Funniest post ever lol..
Mediations got buffed. (The block heal skill and elite skill all turned mediation, and mediations all grant fury)
Boon sharing is by far much needed in all contents than healing. (Aegis, protection, quickness, retaliation in wvw, might stacking)
Glyphs are even worse than traps. (long cd, low damage, low utility, and set-up beforehand, short range too)
…
Well I don’t know which game you are playing but it is obviously not the one I play on.
Block heal is not a meditation…but good try…there is a heal which is a meditation but this one is barely never used in pvp.
Block heal was nerfed as trait on block got a 1 sec icd. No more might stacking possible.
Elite was meditation before patch..so no change.
Glacial hurt was set on virtue and cannot be taken anymore without loosing condi clean on f2…which would be a bad choice
Fury on meditation already available before
You can add medi guards were relying on armor from trait line to dps at close range. This is not the case anymore.
To make it simple medi guard got such a buff that they have compltely disapeared from pvp…
I do hope s/d becomes viable and i do hope d/d ele remains viable.
When was the last time any ele build was viable, not underpowered or not overpowered?
When was the last time there was a build for any class that was considered viable but not op? Pretty much every build that becomes meta gets called face roll op unless it is just used purely for it’s utility (theif stealth/mobility, Mesmer portal, resbot guardian).
Bunker guard had almost always been meta and never been op…just an example…
I f you make the sum of mockery it is getting laughable:
-Demon Hunter => complete garbage
-Meditation guardian nerfed heavily for unknown reasons
-Boon sharer being sub-par to revenant
-Healer no able to compete with druid
-Traps as utility
I am just wondering what they are waiting for providing better aegis sharing on another profession. They missed this one. For the rest it is a perfect.
I do hope s/d becomes viable and i do hope d/d ele remains viable.
When was the last time any ele build was viable, not underpowered or not overpowered?
When was the last time there was a build for any class that was considered viable but not op? Pretty much every build that becomes meta gets called face roll op unless it is just used purely for it’s utility (theif stealth/mobility, Mesmer portal, resbot guardian).
Bunker guard had almost always been meta and never been op…just an example…
Very happy with the shield changes. There will be a lot more synergy with Aegis traits now just because of the team and self aegis application on 4. Shield 5(SoA) will now be on par with Engi’s Shield 4, better for pushing into fights where there are projectiles flying around. Being interruptible is fine, people seem to forget we have some pretty decent stability access (SYG, IC,), and from the looks of it you don’t have to keep it up for the full 4 seconds meaning you could pop it for a heal.
I’m looking forward to Tuesday, I wonder what they’ve done with Radiant Retaliation and Perfect Inscriptions, if they did do anything with them. Gj anet!
)))
