Guild Wars 2

Wyrden.4713:

thif counters mesmer worse than guard counters thief…

Indeed..but thieves do not see the problem here ;-)

Seriously…Anet’s genius and creativity to produce weird mechanics is FA BU LOUS.
This needs a standing ovation and must be stored in the best of repository of game design.

Reflect on its own was already a complete success:
- Selfdying from retal without doing anything: marvelous
- Being self ported to ennemy zerg after a necro decided to launch its own tp skill in your bubble : magnificient
- Random efficiency of the skill which may work …or not on some mobs depending on an arbitrary Anet decision : brillant

But now: putting phase retreat on a projectile like mode…we have reached perfection.

I am wondering if they did not apply this “projectile change” to other blink like skills:
- mesmer sword 3 ? => did someobe tested it on a reflected area ?
- mesmer blink ?
- thief steal => would’nt it explain some issue they are facing nowadays ?
- ele ?
- portal ?

I want a jumping puzzle on the mist with a bank at the end….

warrior / thief thread detected…be prepared to get some l2p advice ;-)

style.6173:

It is a good change for those who dislike strategy.

Lord rez ? Strategy ????
ROFL … I see now what Warriors consider as strategy.

I will try this one…despite nerfs…I think it will remain OP:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAV8Yl0Mp7pVOxwJ8PNBNB5dY+SZ0KAdHl+eEA-TZBFwACOCAl2fYxFAoaZAAPEAA
;)

Does someone like the “randomness” of the class: chaos storm / inspiration signet / PU.
How is it good e-sport base to have skill that randomly works or not ?
GW2 should not be AI zoo game with random effects.

It is so funny…I come from mesmer which has been put down to the ground for more than one year everywhere and now I see that this is what is happening to guards.
I thought it was clever not going easily on the train of thieves and warriors as they were completely out of control and toxic for the game.
Obviously Arena does not think like me.
Now I suppose I have to pic the most toxic profession to hope it will get some love.
Thief / War / Turret engy ?

Nick.6972:

Guardian isn’t master of anything, it does everything average.
Guardian isn’t excelling at anything.
Other professions can do what guardian can just as good if not better.

I disagree…they are the best at team support…or used to be at least.
This is the purpose of the class. Anet should work on improving or adpating how they can do it. Not on making them bursty selfish players like thieves or wars.

Anet considered that Guardians are on a good spot.
This mean they have to break the class now. This is what they do the best.
Hope they feel thieves are on a good spot soon.

Is deep freeze harder to land than moa ? (just a question…I have no idea)

One word: rallybot
Do you really want having more challenge as an under populated server ?

When I played mesmer there was nothing worse than retaliation on a zerg after I put a feedback =>autokill on skills i was not even launching

dancingmonkey.4902:

In my opinion, once your making threads complaining about how one specific profession will have an advantage over you, you have kind of really started grasping at straws.

Just ask engineers about fighting necros (engies have the least congi removal)

Just as necros about fighting any build with CC (no vigor, stability, and long cool downs on stun breakers)

Just asked thieves about being revealed by rangers and soon to be engineers

Just ask guardian about fighting poison spam builds (they have low HP base, and are designed to make that up with consistent heals)

In the other hand…what are thiefs weak against ?
Squishy ?….no when played well s/d thief at least is the most difficukt class to down
Reavealed by rangers ?….not a problem…at least for s/d
Teamfights….pvp is 5v5…thief have a nice place in this scale

xDudisx.5914:

Mesmer is already the best/op duelist class if you dont fight with people siting in a point.

No it is not…thief is…and by far.

Kadj.6725:

“Power Block applies Revealed for 5s on interrupt.” (in addition to current effect.)

How does that sound?

sounds bad to me….i want them to take the cooldown like all other prof….having a bunny s/d thief spamming evade skills on your head is the pain we need to get rid off.

no special treatment for any prof

Riccardo.7254:

You guys took the feedback of the mesmer community and worked for fast changes of what you proposed. Just take a look of the Necromancer forum and make your day. You are still in time to give us a reason to keep playing it (or gw2)
thank you

do you really want a quick nerf ?

Esplen.3940:

Kicast.1459:

Esplen.3940:

This is funny because it’s on the big fights (where your Phantasms don’t die) that Mesmers will outshine a Guardian

Phantasms don’t die on big fights ??? What is your secret ? Tell me please…I have obviously missed something important here.

What’s your definition of a big fight?

My definition of a big fight is like…

Taidha Covington, Shadow Behemoth, Lupicus, etc.

Most of which you can have/maintain 3 Phantasms relatively easily (well, Lupicus not so much after Phase 1, but Mesmer can easily one shot him).

Ok sorry bro…I was not clear enough…I was talking about wvw. And big fights is 15 + vs 15 +

Esplen.3940:

This is funny because it’s on the big fights (where your Phantasms don’t die) that Mesmers will outshine a Guardian

Phantasms don’t die on big fights ??? What is your secret ? Tell me please…I have obviously missed something important here.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Brutal Augus.5917:

*Golem portals, portal bombs, time warps and null fields are priceless in WvW. If you were looking for combat viability, try a high clone generation build. ANY of them for that matter, you don’t just have to be PU to be good in WvW. A well placed null field can be the difference between life and death btw. Again, do you even WvW?

Portal in general are great for many many things, and one of the most underestimated skills around in my opinion.

Null field, in my opinion is the single most underestimated skill in any WvW experience, hands down.

Portal bomb is strongly unrecommended since clipping/latency servers correction.
This is the case for at least one year…pleased to keep you up to date.

Time warp nerfed by 50% with no duration compensation (contrary to other professions also nerged on celerity (thieves and warriors)). Not major impact on never ending moving hammer trains.
Same on null field wich removes a marvelous amount of … 1 boon on 5 man per sec. Crazy game breaking op skill. You can go through it without loosing anything if you go between 2 pulses.

High clone generation…in wvw..ok I start understanding…you have no idea of what is wvw. You should understand that not everyone like to play only roaming. some appreciate participating on large figjts (original purpose of wvw)

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

Kicast.1459:

What is the difference on interupting a thief with and without the trait ?

If the interrupted skill is thief’s weapon skill, then voila! Absolutely no difference. Hence this thread, because some people (perhaps ANet included) deemed having CD on thief’s weapon skill is an atrocity while other professions are having 10s CD.

This does not sound good game design…what is wrong with anet ?
Why so much and consistent hate on mesmers…why trying so hard to remove anything that could make mesmer shine.

Trait x: does good thing…but not against thief
Pvp: can have added value to a team..but not if there is a thief
Nice 1v1 (class design) but not against thief
Very good dps but les than thieve

Anet summarized its view pretty well: mesmer is about support…they don’t want to bring them nice aoe …because this belong to eles.
This is why they have:
Veil
Portal
Time warp

But this is crappy support…no point taking a mesmer for that…apart for puzzle jump.

Again a big fail in vision: game design….

I myself got rid of my mesmer to take a real support profession : guard.
Guess what ? I am 100 times better at support…have 100 time more sustain…and deal much more damage (at least on big fights)

What is the difference on interupting a thief with and without the trait ?

skillondeathtrait.blockable=true
skillondeathtrait.evadable=true

test….oops no test …too complicated to have a test environment

I stop joking…I think your are true…they were maybe not sure on being ready during the skillbar review.

Neptune.2570:

Lol at people getting angry at this. Those spots have been used in tornies, so I’m sure anet is aware of them. Intended or not, any decent Mesmer will use these. It should also be noted that for the Phase Retreat from the windmill spot into the inner clocktower to work, the crates in the alley underneath the clocktower will have to be destroyed first.

Accepted by anet but bad game design.

I saw Helseth showing several way to use retreat…it was quick and so impressive…we saw he was a good player…but I was always surprised why in a specific spot you retreat on top of a rock and 10 cm near you don’t….bad mechanic.

witcher.3197:

And classes need these little things that people must learn to use over time The game would lose a really interesting and deep part by removing it (and there is no reason to do so).

I disagree: a skill behavior must be intuitive. If by you cannot guess what will really happen if you have not tried a skill in the same context (here loclisation/map) before..then it is bad design.

mango.9267:

Nazer.7301:

Wow DE porting a clone to target, yes plz. Can you imagine the single target distance clone spam for world bosses/dungeons. Shatter more viable for pve, so many options with a change like that. Where do I sign up.

One of the best ways to mitigate backstabs from thieves is to dodge and summon a clone where you just were. Backstab hits the clone, and the thief is now revealed.

Deceptive evasion is better off as it is, by summoning a clone at your dodge position.

Won’t work anymore as now backstab gets up to 2 targets.
Another mesmer hidden buff maybe

“Let’s wait for the meta to settle” they said…this is how we had to deal for more than one year with thieves and kitten hambow jungernauts.

But when it comes to mesmer…meta can settle before release….
Mesmers out of meta for longer than crying rangers but nevermind …

If scepter change was bad…they had to remove it instead of brainlessly breaking something else in urgency.

Of course you can…but sometimes it will do nothing: arrowcarts…some pve bosses arbitrarily choosen by anet.

Wall of partial reflection sounds correct to me.

maeggle.6021:

LordByron.8369:

As i said you don t roam a lot for sure…

If you only knew…

I don’t think this discussion will become any more productive, so I’ll leave you be in your bubble of self comfort. Godspeed!

This!
Nobody like to loose his shiny toy….and forget quickly in which state other professions are.
I really feel your expression summarize 90% of state of mind of the people : “concerned only by their bubble of self comfort”
True on this forum…and true in real life…unfortunately.

oversoul soldier.1742:

Kicast.1459:

Lol…thieves qqing on a patch nor delivered yet….
You have pushed all zerkers outside meta for more than one year…
As long as it is the case and as long as you are meta…you deserve more nerfs.

Honnestly you will in the end deserve more nerf in initiative : regen rate lowered or more expensive skills..maybe both.

Really hope anet has understood the cancer you are for the others.

Funny that you’re coming here and calling us a cancer. It seems to me the class that most people have been associating with cancer as of late is mesmer due to the proposed torment on AA skill change for scepter. Even more ironic is that you spend most of your time as a forum warrior for mesmers. I think we can all disregard your hyperbole and clear anti-thief agenda.

Until now mesmer are a cancer out of the meta..which is not the case of thieves.
This is thus a much more acceptable cancer.
Having torment on aa does not sound a good idea to me honnestly…this does not change that thieves need more nerfs.

For information I main a guard…so don’t consider I biaised because I have some intersts.
Maybe it is your case also…or not….

Removing it without adding a new one could be contrary to their personal objectives:

Anet boss: “Guys…I pay you to do content..community wants more pvp content …do it!!!”
Anet devs:“Sir we added two new maps Sir..ok they are not designed well enough for team queue ..but they are perfect for solo queue.. can I get my bonus now ?”

Removing them would acknowledge close to 0 additional serious content to pvp since start. (I only have tempest in mind)
Not acceptable.

Lol…thieves qqing on a patch nor delivered yet….
You have pushed all zerkers outside meta for more than one year…
As long as it is the case and as long as you are meta…you deserve more nerfs.

Honnestly you will in the end deserve more nerf in initiative : regen rate lowered or more expensive skills..maybe both.

Really hope anet has understood the cancer you are for the others.

Honestly…knowing how anet can break what they touch and coming from mesmer community I pray god they change nothing…not a single line of code…trust me nothing good can happen to guards as they have a cool and efficient role in all games modes today.

Spitu.8657:

I don’t mean to be a downer, but is that all pvp is getting for the feature pack. Two armor sets and a option to not see the armor?

Like Uma likes to say : " Hey …. what did you expect ? " ????
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X3FR4ocdHdU

Worst problem of thieves is not stealth…it is spammability on dodge / evasion / strong skill

I remember thaat veil was a glamourvfield in the past…it is no more…thanks again anet.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

EDIT: oh I see your point :P. I hope we’re not going for the worst. But I also don’t see the point of butchering mesmer further in his current sorry state.

we haven’t been seing it for more than one year either…but they continued to break the class…why would it change then ?

I would rephrase: mesmer are this weak
And anet consistently broke more and more the profession patch after patch…I disn’t hear they drastically changed the balance team…why would it change then ?

Mbelch.9028:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Mbelch.9028:

This is another ridiculous change. It does what it is intended to do. How would you have something wipe ALL boons?

Incredible. At least Carighan proposed a suspension of them. Which I can totally get behind.

But while there’s still rendering issues in this game so that you can’t see effects, your proposition is again not well thought out or balanced.

it is not ridiculous but reasonable.

the skill is not doing what it is intended to do.

Reasonable that this skill becomes an imbalanced kill switch?

None of your suggestions have been well thought out.

The skill is indeed doing what is intended. Punishing people over time and being a boon to you over time.

It pulses, like many other skills in the game do. It makes it a good dueling skill, good PvP skill and good WvW roaming skill.

• Also, I can establish that since ANet hasn’t looked at this skill as imbalanced nor changed it much since release— this is what is intended for the skill. Your job if you want to have it changed is prove with evidence that it isn’t what was intended for the skill. And the tooltip isn’t good enough. Because over time, if you stand on it, it does remove all boons.

This skill is in its current state inefficient at removing boons and conditions.
One must be a selfish elementalist on not understanding this.
I can understand that it is better for you that boon temoval remains weak…you and your tons of damage…huge boon appliance and no limit aoe stun.
I didn’t hear you telling this stun was brokenly op….strange the way you see opness.

I feel downrd state is pretty ok but I have two concerns:
Most important: death of an ennemy should not revive anybody…this is stupid mechanic
Second: in sPvP, the mechanic lets people waste too much time when they are outside the circle

Why ?
Not viable value on GvG except veil.
Hard countered by thieves which you cannot escape from in pvp and roaming.
Obliterated by condi bunkers aoes if you try to keep a point on pvp.

s/d Thieves were already a problem for other zerkers viability before Sigil change

Helseth for me you are the best player I have ever seen. But unfortunately as long as you stick to mesmer I will not say you are the Most Valuable Player to a team. My vote goes for your teamate sizer who can decap and anihilate close to everything in this game with I feel less skill but with more efficient mechanics.

Evilek.5690:

KarsaiB.9475:

Static.9841:

Fraelin.7409:

My main problem with this S/D build is the damage it can put out when it has 0 points in critical strikes.

OK, I’m going to stop you right there.

How about how warriors and guardians can both set up a tank spec in traits, then use fire + air/intelligence sigils, strength runes and zerker ammy and still live through tons of damage (unlike the thief) and still put out good damage?

Also, s/d thief DOES live through tons of damage, despite its role…

With 15k HP and low armor ? Really ?

Yes really…
When played well s/d thieves are unkillable jungernaught
Spammy dodge tp everywhere everytime.

Look at this guy and tell me it is balanced
http://www.twitch.tv/sizer2654

You did a superb job…honnestly thanks to you guys.
I think it is not exagerating that you made (with some other guys) mesmer community the best and more interesting out of all professions.
We saw a kind of passion for this class.
So sad it has been neglected by Anet.

Curunen.8729:

Yes, as discussed in a previous thread, reducing BF hits and buffing damage would help, if retaliation is left alone.

Both sword #2 and #3 need something for sure.

Maybe remove the stun break on 3 as It is still something that can be used sometimes

Sergoros.4398:

Kicast.1459:

I forgot the nerf of chaos armor on staff…lol

U forgot alot. Like big phantom summons nerf. In old days phantom summons couldn’t miss or be obstructed. But it is understandable. There was so much nerfs, that it would be alot of work to remember all of em.

What about the phatasm on focus nerf…now it can just pop…and do nothing.
….someone tells me it is a bug not a nerf….obviously less important bug than ileap.

In top of that how can Anet raise that mesmer is a strong duellist when it is shut down so hard by another profession ?

frifox.5283:

Zelulose.8695:

They still have too much left to nerf before mesmer is completely ruined.

The day ANet nerfs reflect damage is the day they finally drive mesmers into a grave.

Taking retaliation on reflect damage is already a kind of nerf. You can instant die.
With blurred frenzy nerf it is even worth.
In top of that you can be instantly tp in the ennemy zerg thanks to weird mechanics (Necro tp projectile) which means also an instant death.
Do not take feed-back against a zerg…never !

One advice …return to another class
But I admit in pve you can play any class. But build does not matter there … autoattack is sufficient.