Guild Wars 2

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Cool idea! I’ll think about it a bit and maybe try out some things.

I just hope it’s not exactly like thief’s ahah

Zenith.7301:

Using Impossible Odds is questionable as well based on whether chronomancer will be able to provide sufficient quickness. With 2x time warp, 2x well of action, and signet of inspiration, most bosses will be dead before your quickness uptime wears off.

And in general, the Shiro legend is not very good in PvE, it has mostly single target and mobility skills. Most people will probably resort to Glint and Jalis/Ventari legends for the group utility in PvE.

I don’t really get why people say that Shiro is not good in PvE.

Life siphon, superspeed, quickness, 3s aoe stun, dodge+stunbreak+(some) condi removal, leap.

Honestly I find Shiro the most useful legend for pve. Maybe for some bosses you may want to swap to Jalis or Ventari (I think that’s what the class design is about), but Shiro is very useful for Verdant Brink, trash mobs and many bosses (Quickness is the best boon in the game).
And I believe we’ll get many bosses with defiance bar in hot.

Incantus.8960:

Well basically, I’m most likely going to use glint/jalis or glint/shiro, or shiro/jalis.

But that calculator doesnt have herald on it yet, so I havent had a chance to look things over properly.

From gw2skills.net guestbook

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

I think you have a bit of a distorted view on how Legends work, and Legendswap as a mechanic, but honestly I don’t feel like arguing with you on this. Ultimately, we’ll just end up agreeing to disagree.

So….. I disagree with you.

Regardless of agreement, I’d very much like to read another point of view.

Even if legendswapping often (but not necessarily on cd) gives more energy throughput (and this is not an opinion, it’s like that, period), it may not be the best or the only strategy.

I was simply replying to this thread with concerns about skill throughput with energy compared to energy-less classes, I wasn’t suggesting the best way to play Revenant.

I just addressed the problem that swapping legend/utility is not enough to make up for the lack of weaponswap. Then when people started suggesting crazy or limiting solutions (like conjured weapons lol) I said “isn’t it better to just add weaponswap?”
They ended up adding weaponswap and I’m happy about it, but THEY added it, THEY are the designers, not me. So I don’t see any contradiction with my previous post.

And nope, you didn’t simply address the problem, you’re going against Roy’s post saying that attacks should give energy, which is also a bad idea for the reasons I said above (and I’m sure there are also other reasons but, again, I’m not a game designer).

He already said that they won’t modify energy gain, but just energy costs, and it’s fine. Everything is relative, so increasing energy gain or lowering the costs gives the same results, what changes is the effort.

crap, I forgot the new craft announcement xD
Scribe, right?

@Lonewolf Kai

But if you put the same energy regen on every weapon, then it’s basically like increasing the passive pips.
No, it’s even worse, since AA will have a negative cost and will be (even) more attractive then regular skills.
And if you increase the passive pips then you have to increase upkeep costs, and it’s basically just like lowering costs on some skills. Everything is relative so you just need to FIX a value (max energy and positive upkeep) and move the others (energy costs and negative upkeeps).

Why can’t you just address the problems (= feedback) and let professional game designers to do their job?
Just say “energy is low” or “skills cost too much”. They will know how to address those problems in a wise way that doesn’t ruin the class as you’re suggesting to do.

I meant a long cd, like 20 seconds, not 3, so the skill can be at least made meaningful, like 25 energy and 3 seconds of taunt, also not a projectile.

Jasmine Salina.3609:

Kidel.2057:

I think that Jalis elite is so expensive because you can stack that plus protection and get like 80% damage reduction.

This being said, I also think that road needs to give 3 seconds of stabilityimmediately at least to the caster, then 3 seconds from each pulse, that should also be every 3 seconds.
This way you still give the same amount of stability duration and stacks.

it’s only 1 stack, however, so not a big deal anyway. Jalis has a long way to go to compete with the other legends. At the moment is less interesting then Ventari.

In PvE I would say it’s not a big deal, but in WvW, every stack you can get is useful. 1 stack of Stability won’t help you at all. It will be instantly stripped upon engaging a fight with another Zerg and then you’re stuck inside their bomb with maybe 1 stun break instead of being able to push with your own team who all have stability to do so.

of course. By “it’s not a big deal” I meant thet it’s not OP to make the skill as I suggested.

you mean similar to thief? uhm, I don’t like it so much.

No, you are not. You’re making the same mistake that 50% of this subforum makes. You’re thinking as we have 5 utility skills and we have to avoid spending all our energy, or we are supposed to camp one legend. Same reason why people ask for energy regen skills (when we already have a huge one).

Nothing bad happens if you consume all your energy, just legendswap. Bad management is when you consume all of it before swap cd is ready or if you end up being unable to use a skill you wanted to use. And actually a worse management is not swapping legend at all.
We even have Facet of Nature regardless of legend so we can boon support after swap.

You could activate all your facets and keep them active for more then 10 seconds, then legendswap being able to use 5 new skills with no cd and 50 energy to use, then activate Nature 2nd effect and give even more boons for free. Your other legend can be Mallyx to heal conditions on allies, Jalis to support with stability or Dwarf Rite (50% damage reduction, stacking with Protection for 80% reduction), Ventari to heal and support even more, or Shiro to do more damage and CC.

That’s just an example and a BAD way to use Glint, but it should be enough to prove that you’re not limited in any way.

You need damage? Activate Might and Fury facets, maybe also Nature. You need to survive? Activate Regen and Protection facets. At -1 pip it takes 100 seconds to run out of energy. That is a huge amount of time.
And of course, you’re free to spam weaponskills as any other class. If your energy is over just legendswap. If you have almost 0 energy and you still want to use Glint for healing, then deactivate a facet and doubletap the healing one, it only requires 1 energy lol.

And if you only use the upkeep passive effect, then you legendswap, you don’t eve have CD on the facet when you swap back.

People say “we need energy regen skills” basically because they want to camp 1 single legend instead of managing 10 skills, but that’s the whole point of being a Revenant. Legendswap IS the class mechanic. I’ll kick from my group any Revenant that doesn’t legendswap at least 2 times every minute, lol.

If you don’t legendswap, then your energy and skill throughput is objectively way lower then how it should be.

I like all of them, but isn’t Herald better then Retribution in Option 1 even if you use Jalis/Shiro? You even get double Stability (5s) from Enhanced Bulwark if you want. Plus Facet of Nature.

And I was under the impression that Mallyx is the best legend for WvW (and with Herald you basically get might from every Demon Stance skill). So a Herald with Mallyx/Jalis or Mallyx/Shiro with Staff/Hammer or Staff/Mace+Axe.

Kodiak.3281:

Taunt just isn’t useful at 2 seconds let alone for 50 energy.

And can be reflected/strifed/absorbed

berserker and ranger have aoe taunt that can’t be avoided. I’m not saying that revenant should have it too (it’s a different class), but 50 energy for that crappy skill is bad. Add a cd if you don’t want it to be spammed.

I think that Jalis elite is so expensive because you can stack that plus protection and get like 80% damage reduction.

This being said, I also think that road needs to give 3 seconds of stabilityimmediately at least to the caster, then 3 seconds from each pulse, that should also be every 3 seconds.
This way you still give the same amount of stability duration and stacks.

it’s only 1 stack, however, so not a big deal anyway. Jalis has a long way to go to compete with the other legends. At the moment is less interesting then Ventari.

Unless it gets changed from the POI (and I don’t see that coming), they also affect you.
Also traits activated when you apply a boon on an ally also activate when the boon is applied to you (works like that in Altruistic Healing trait).

Wait a minute, there is some people here thinking that verdant brink is hard? It’s harder then skillspamming on a poor moa, but it’s not “hard”, come on. It’s easier the soloing a BAM on Tera.

And a BAM hunt party in Tera is one of the coolest thing in any MMO.

GW2 should really have some real “taunt” implementation to keep mob hate, so we can have tanks and so harder mobs.

We are probably 4+ weeks of news before the release.
Unless they skip some weeks.

3 elite specs + PAX with the “challenging group content” reveal

Unless they don’t want to make weekly reveals for events, beta weekends, new maps or other stuff.

So release is probably going to happen between October and the end of the year.

EDIT: crap, I forgot the new craft announcement xD

Just because Guardian has Aegis and all sorts of invulnerability doesn’t mean that every class should get it too. Just an example.

Revenants are better then Rangers with a sword. I see nothing wrong here.
Sword is basically Revenant’s best weapon and probably the “main” one. Rangers have bows.

Regngers are way better then Revenants in condi cleanse.

That’s how the game goes and what balancing means. Balancing doesn’t mean that there should only be 1 class, lol. Classes are different and can only fit some roles (with the only exception being Ele that can currently do everything).

Just a short post to say how heavy armor classes are amazing in this game, and how cool is that each one of them fits a very specific theme.

Warrior has rage, red fire, physical strength.
Guardian has virtues, blue fire and altruistic magic.
Revenant has legends, their magic and white/black fire from the mists.

Good job ArenaNet

Wiuld you prefer 0 passive upkeep and refen skills or 0 regen skills and 10 passive upkeep?
Scale 0 euth any number, the passive regen is always better.

Relatively you already gain energy with AA because it costs 0

The best way to use any legend is to finish the energy in a reasonable amount of time, then legendswap for 50 free.
It can be calculated that this is the best way to maximize the skill throughput, so 0 pips and just AA is a bad strategy. It’s the equivalent of waiting.

Pve or wvw? Tank, dps or supporter?

Dolyak runes are terrible. Go with pack/traveler/rage/strength

It’s not a matter of being a blind weaponswap fan. It’s objectively the best option. Nothing better has been suggested.

Remember that revenant is supposed to suck in condi cleanse

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Good-now-Roy-Where-is-my-energy/first#post5390599

Roy Cronacher.1576:

There are no plans to add skills or traits which affect energy gain, upkeep gain, or energy cost of skills for the Revenant. These traits very quickly become mandatory choices as it means you can use your skills more often and in the case of energy, it would apply to all your skills since they all use energy. This is a dramatic increase in power across the board.

These kind of traits makes for less interesting choices and cause many problems with balance, often forcing skills to be weaker to compensate for the possibility of a player having all these traits equipped meaning they can use skills much more often then a player without them. But of course there will be balance on on energy costs and recharges of skills to make sure everything feels good and balanced for what it does in the toolkit of the revenant.

skowcia.8257:

• Ventari .

1. Tablet summons automatically upon swapping to this legend on revenant position
2. Cast times to control tablet are removed. They no longer will disrupt revenant in combat
3. Increase radius of skills to 360 with exception of protective solace
4 Energy Expulsion – also creates water field for 5 seconds and no longer destroy the tablet

I agree with all of those. I don’t see Energy Expulsion not destroying the tablet. I agree
it would be better for gameplay, I just don’t think it will ever be done because of how they want Ventari’s tablet mechanic. Like the auto follow stuff.

skowcia.8257:

• Jalis

1. Soothing Stone – Will block incoming attacks (2sec) to give this legend that tanky feeling
2. Inspiring Reinforcement – Apply 5 stacks of stability right away for 5 seconds. Road will pulse weakness on enemies standing in. Increase energy cost to 35, 10cd.
3. Forced Engagement – Increase taunt duration to 3 seconds, make projectile homing target, unblockable. Reduce energy to 40.
4. Rite of the Great Dwarf – reduce energy cost to 40.

Thoughts?

Uhm.. Soothing Stone is already good. If they add the 2s block (basically like Guardian’s) they’d have to lower the heal and get rid of the 3 condi cleanse, and I won’t like it.

Inspiring Reinforcement just needs to give first pulse sooner, and be an average between how it was before and how it is now. Now you’re forced to stand inside the road all the time, so not really good for wvw, before it was just too good.

Forced Engagement should cost less then 50, come on. It can be reflected, lol.

I agree with all the rest however. Rite should give more seconds of buff, even for 50 energy, I don’t care to pay more if it’s good.

I meant how it’s designed NOW.
And by the way rev didn’t get ws because of the complains. The feedback only sped up the process of deciding if add it or not, but they already had it in their test build.
Devs are not stupid, nor they take orders from the community. Otherwise Glint would have been a mount by now.

Sure, conjure weapons, even better, so if I want a specific weapon I’m forced to use that specific legend, great.

And that thread is even contradicting itself.

Revenant’s originality is that you don’t pick and customize your skills, but only the legends, and there you’re asking for a 4th utility, just to be like other classes.

So 4th utility: + customization – originality
Conjured weapon: – customization + originality

What do you want? Originality or customization?

I really don’t get it. Can’t you just play the class as it’s designed since it’s 100 times better?

Vyriis.6258:

I had a suggestion similar to this as well in another post, however it was switching to a weapon depending on the legend you are invoking. Further wielding a part of the legend, if you would.

If you can’t understand by yourself why this is such a bad idea, then I have nothing to tell you.

I can’t believe that after everyone played rev in bw1 there is still this idea showing up.

Sure, everytime I legendswap I’m also forced to change weaponskills and maybe also range. Perfect idea. -_-

nope, ele is the core problem. You can’t add anything to a class that can already do everything.

nerf ele, remove some boons and some firefields and see how tempest usage skyrockets.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Kidel.2057:

elite is not supposed to be better or much better, but to add options. if ele can already do everything (that what people mean when they say “it’s good”) then there is nothing tempest can add (except making it more op).

But. It. Doesn’t. Add. Options.

That’s the whole problem. EVERYTHING Tempest can do ele can already do, even better with D/D.

Exactly my point, Ele can already do everything, so tempest can’t add anything.

Simply nerf Ele so that it can’t do what tempest does.
And don’t tell me Ele doesn’t deserve a nerf.

I agree with you Duke. Always made heavy armor characters, but warriors are not magic enough, while paladins are just too much light oriented and dark knights too much darkness oriented. Revernant is what I’ve been waiting for.

It was my favourite class since announcement.

I’ve always loved heavy armor classes, even before guild wars. I’m usually a warrior, a knight or a paladin. But I wasn’t really happy with those archetypes.

Warrior didn’t have enough magic, was only physical. Paladin has that magic feeling, but it’s too much light oriented, while dark knights too much darkness oriented. It rapresents me better than Warrior (that’s why I’ve been a main Guardian for 3 years now), sure, but it still felt not 100% my kind of class.

Revenant seems just perfect for me. Heavy armor class with neutral magic.

It also has that 5% of Pokémon feel, If you get what I mean.

I love the legend swap mechanic and the fact that we get 5 fixed skills from each legend.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Kidel.2057:

Vennyhedgie.5369:

http://tooltips.thatshaman.com/
have fun :P

I forgot that tool existed. I made some adjustments here and there http://imgur.com/a/QcNFF

Amazing. I’ll get right on making that legend. Sounds like it might be a little OP though.

It seems balanced to me!
Forum Understanding + “I’ll write a forum post after the show” can wipe your team and almost every skill is triggered 1 week later or 2.

But well, there is the elite ahah. We can move in that defiance bar.

It would be interesting to see a backling build with Mallyx/Glint or Mallyx/Jalis+Nature

Vennyhedgie.5369:

http://tooltips.thatshaman.com/
have fun :P

I forgot that tool existed. I made some adjustments here and there http://imgur.com/a/QcNFF

Treetoptrickster.4205:

Where’s my Resistance?

+1

Being the first class to provide AOE Resistance would have been great.

Demented Yak.6105:

I think it’s the eye revenants use to see in to the mists, considering they use blindfolds making their other eyes a bit useless.

I’d kind of like to to be a bit more bouncy, if you know what I mean. It seems like a very serious icon.

this makes sense. Actually ritualists had a similar icon if I’m not wrong.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

skowcia.8257:

Just curious about one thing that wasnt mentioned at all.. Now that Jalis hammer were changed, whats about reflexive summon trait which remains at 180 radius? Can it get changed to 120 as well? Or maybe get rid of it completely and change it to apply 6sec on 15cd weakness when we get hit (instead of activating on our hit) similiar to protective ward from rangers?

Overall I feel like that trait is lack luster, I’ll probably be re-making it when I do a trait pass. If you all have any idea feel free to shoot them out. I’ll also likely combine the two on CC traits and make a new master tier trait for that line as well.

Keep up the awesome feedback everyone!

Something to reduce energy cost on Jalis taunt would be much appreciated.

Also Jalis road feels pretty useless after the announced changes. Maybe before it was too strong, however I’m sure that it can be balanced better.

My problem with hammers is that they’re destroyed near wall, on a slope or on a bridge. This was never confirmed to be a bug or working as intended. Same for Unrelenting Assoult close to a wall or Hammer #3 attacking foes on a different height level or across a rift.

Jalis/Glint could be amazing for pve or wvw, but currently that’s not possible because the only good skill on Jalis is the healing one.

Except for Dwarf skills, all of them are useful. Simply don’t use Dwarf until it’s polished.

What skill is not useful on Shiro/Glint/Ventari/Mallyx?

Glint upkeep are about boons and support (at least if you are activating 3 that’s what you’re trying to do). If you want to use them actively to fight just pop might passive, nature active and spam weaponskills.

If you plan to be a backline supporter activate more at once and just AA from range.

We have 10 skills compared to the usual 5, we can actually choose playstyle according to the situations.

elite is not supposed to be better or much better, but to add options. if ele can already do everything (that what people mean when they say “it’s good”) then there is nothing tempest can add (except making it more op).

elite is not supposed to be better or much better, but to add options. if ele can already do everything (that what people mean when they say “it’s good”) then there is nothing tempest can add (except making it more op).

yeah, also many small heals during cannon phase.

yeah, remove the possibility to do boon based ele as core and see how ele is still good, but tempest becomes viral. the problem with ele is that it can already do EVERYTHING, so they can’t add new roles.

skowcia.8257:

The olny thing you can reflect on revenant atm is hammer 1 and jalis taunt – its sooo bad.

skowcia.8257:

reflect […] jalis taunt

Really? Ahahahahahah. Oh it feels so bad to be Jalis right now.
Berserker is getting an 8s cd AOE taunt that probably can’t be even blocked and we have to spend 50 energy for that thing. Lol.
Of course I’m not asking for the same skill, every class is different, but really? 50 energy for a single target taunt that can be reflected?

Kodiak.3281:

600 Radius for boons is fine, but the actives are all short range radius abilities. Most are 360 radius around you. Elemental Blast is a 360 AOE at 600 range. The point being is if you are back line you’re not going to be able to hit the enemy with Gaze of Darkness, Burst of Strength, etc.

Yeah, of course. But you’re not forced to do the actives however, and you actually get a small benefit from not using them (no cd on upkeep).

Sorry, I forgot to mention it. I was mainly think to Glint as something useful in the backline build that was posted a week ago (so mainly support and ranged dps).

Killyox.3950:

And elite specs are not meant to be better, just different. They don’t want power creep (altough some will definitely be there)

exactly. Many people are upset about tempest because they have to give up some dps traits to use it.
Nerf those traits and Tempest will become an option.

Tempest feels a dud because base Ele is too good. Nerf core Ele and see how people appreciate Tempest.