Guild Wars 2

Wait, 600 radius around you is not short at all. Guardian symbols have180 radius.
Glint upkeeps have the same radius of Warrior banners, and I think it’s huge.

I was planning to use Jalis in WvW, but with last changes I don’t really know. Guess I’ll try it at least.

Are you going to use Glint and Herald traits?

what if in a previous iteration energy gain was 5 pips, then they added 5 energy on mace AA and then they noticed other weapons needed it too, so they simply added 5 more pips baseline, giving our current 10?

If we add energy gain on AA in’t it worse then simply having passive energy gain?
Of course it is, you won’t even use skills, just AA and upkeeps. And we already are a bit inclined to do so, because AA is free, so it’s basically just energy gain.

And what if instead of adding more energy regen we simply don’t adjust the cost on some skills?

Seriously, energy mechanic is fine, only some numbers need tweaks.

yeah, we can’t really compare might and quickness if we factor group play.
however we can clearly say that vulnerability is not rare at all and most pve situations have 25 stacks on enemy already.

But even if we exclude also might, still UA on cd is a better option (on a single target) for the gap-close, the burst and the higher damage, even factoring 3s of quickness lost (that is less then 16% of your uptime).

Plus I don’t consider IO to be such a great skill. Sure, superspeed and quickness are great boons, however the cost is far too great, and you can’t use your other skills, like the healing one, which gives almost a 2k dps bonus over 3 seconds.

I don’t really know where you’re getting that 3s of 33% more damage.
Quickness is 50% more damage, and 3s of quickness over 9 are just 16.5% more damage on the long run.

I also remember you calculated UA and AA to be almost on par, with UA being better with the close-gap time gain.

Even if it’s only 10% more as you’re saying now, you still need to factor that gap closing, but more importantly the burst and the might. The might alone is more then +5% even factoring the vuln you lose.

And if you already have a quickness source, wich is very likely, then all this reasoning is useless and UA spam is the best option hands down.

a previous mistake is not a valid reason to make another one.

Knox.8962:

UA was quite a bit lower before, and got a 30% buff. The auto attack chain got about a 10% buff. Casting UA in shiro costs you 2.3s of quickness, which is essentially a 33% damage buff. The difference between the AA and UA isn’t enough to justify dropping the quickness.

Doing a weighted average, AA got buffed by 8.2%, while UA by 30%.
IO, starting from 50 energy, is 9 seconds. If you cast UA you lose 15 energy, meaning you can keep IO up for 6 seconds instead of 9, losing 33% of your Quickness buff (that is 50%), meaning you only lose 16.5% of dps.
If you do that from 100 energy, then it’s even lower, since it’s 19 seconds vs 16, so around 7.8% less overall dps.

Base damage: UA 1, AA 0

Pretty sure that the second you get from the gap-closing is more then enough to compensate, not to mention the higher damage.

Mobility and range: UA 2, AA 0

And those calcs are over a long fight, since UA is obviously the best option for bursting we have.

Burst: UA 3, AA 0

Not factoring the 7 stacks of might. Doing only AA can keep 3 more stacks of vuln on the target, meaning 3% more dps, while UA gives 7 might, meaning 210 power.
If you have 2500 power, then 210 more means an 8.4% damage increase, so you basically get a 5.4% damage boost for 6 seconds (exactly the duration of Impossible Odds starting from 50 energy with 1 UA).

You could say that might is easy to get from allies, but so is vulnerability (well, way easier).

Conditions/boons: UA 4, AA 0

And well, we are only factoring IO here, but if we consider Glint upkeeps is pretty easy to say that doing UA is way better then just spamming AA.

I can agree that AA spam is a better option if you don’t know how to manage energy well.

And I can also agree that UA damage lowers a lot with multiple targets around, while AA is always the same up to 3 targets.

AOE/cleave: UA 4, AA 1

nearlight.3064:

Dear devs,

Please give all of the overloads breakbars and stun them if the breakbars are broken like revenant shield.

Love,
a sad elementalist.

you can’t move in rev shield #5, while you can move pretty quick in overloads, and you have 4 of them. There is no comparison here.

I don’t get all this QQing. Even an experiended Ele as WP says that ele is already in a great place. If Tempest ends up being a support-oriented alternative, I don’t see any problem here.
You can’t have everything.

Knox.8962:

You start in Shiro stance
Trigger Impossible Odds
Autoattack until you are out of energy
Swap to Mallyx stance
Trigger Embrace the Darkness
Use Unrelenting Assault
Autoattack until you can get back to Shiro stance
Swap to Shiro stance
Repeat.

I’m not sure it’s still the best option now that Unrelenting Assault is buffed. It was already close to AA in terms of dps, but AA combo got buffed by an average 7%, while UA by 30% plus evade.
It’s probably better to use it once on each legend since the cd is the same of legendswap.
Also blink on target, so you save maybe half a second of walking.

And by the way I think Glint is better then Mallyx for PvE dps, maybe depending on the group (still Facet of Nature is pretty awesome).

Superior Rune of Rage + Invocation MINOR + Facet of Darkness is 100% fury uptime on both legends if you keep Darkness up for at least 10 seconds.

Superior Rune of Rage + Invocation fury on healing skill is 100% fury uptime regardless of your equipped legends.

Invocation fury on healing skill + Facet of Darkness is 100% fury uptime on both legends.

1 Guardian or Ranger in the party + Invocation MINOR may also be enough.

So it’s easy enough to achieve. Get Rage if you want to be 100% sure and you also want that sweet +5% damage boost.

EDIT: forgot Facet of Nature.

If you can afford a 3k legendary then you spent 500$ or you deserve it. It’s way harder then simply making the legendary from scratch. Made mine in 1 day, spending less then 800g, only bought precursor (shield, so pretty cheap compared to some others). Already had plenty of resources from almost 3 years playing.

Well, it’s harder if you start as a new player.

That being said, I welcome the new system for legendaries. ANet however said they have to be easier to make people who struggled to make the old one still feel rewarded.

Also old precursor price will skyrocket.

Datamined berserk skill, 8s cd.
Gives +33% attack speed and area burning.
Can be traited with aoe taunt, bleeding, fury, defiance bar for 4s.

If it doesn’t at least consume and last til you finish adrenaline, then it’s op as kitten.
Well, not that it can’t be still activated every 8s in a battle…

Plus all the traits on adrenaline skill activation. My god…

Elite skill may need some tweaks, but we don’t have the tech for brakes

I see no reason to prefer that over normal weaponswap except “muh it’s original”

I just think Lyssa cd is too long compared to our elite cd.

If you do the math, Lyssa is 10 condis every 90 seconds, while sigil of cleansing is 9 every 90 seconds, so no big difference on cleansing throughput.

The differences are that cleansing gives more control, being on only 1 weapon and more often activated (meaning it’s probably ready when you meed it, and you can avoid activation when not needed many times), and you give up to far less damage. It’s 1 sigil over 4 on the secondary weaponset.

Lyssa makes you give up to rune of str or rune of rage (100% fury uptime from that also allows to use cleansing channel for 1 more condi cleansed, and gives 40% crit rate and 12% damage).

Ps: I know glint has a fury upkeep, but we’re not staying in glint stance all the time (legendswapvis still the best way to maximize energy generation). Also rune of fury allows to stack fury while in glint stance and bring 5+ seconds in the other stance (being over 11 seconds if you have invocation).

Kidel.2057:

I could ask the same question for Chronomancer however.
Elite specs are ELITE, meaning they’re usually better then normal specs.

Things will change when we get 2 elite specs for each class and you’ll have to choose.

It’s working as intended

CandyHearts.6025:

Agreeing again because I just realized we’ll be testing more specs. I don’t have anything in my bank that I’d wanna use for Warrior. O.O

Same.

do you realize that 2 auto attacks and 1 weapon are not the same as 2 full weapon sets, right?
Excluding autoattacks, your solution has 3 weaponskills, while currently we have 8.

People are asking for more customization, even extra utility skills, and you want to get rid of 5 swappable skills?

Having a sword with 2 autoattack is way worse then having sword+staff with weaponswap. You basically get a free utility skill to heal/condicleanse. And that’s just 1 example. The difference between hammer and sword is not just the range.
I’d never trade hammer+sword for an hammer with 2 autoattacks.

Honestly I don’t even know why they simply didn’t use trident+spear for 2 sets, maybe because it’s faster to develop like that (and who cares, it’s underwater)

FLiP.7680:

Misguided.5139:

Kidel.2057:

Shared Empowerment alone may be easily 4 extra stacks every 3 seconds for almost 6 seconds (with 15% duration from trait) from just 1 upkeep active, meaning almost 8 stacks from only 1 upkeep in a group of at least 5. A lot more with 2 upkeeps, imagine 3.

So, you think we will get one stack from shared empowerment for each ally? I hope you are right about that. Also, with the ICD, I wonder about ticks from different abilities occurring within the ICD (and not counting). I guess we will see how it shakes out during next BWE.

I believe you can’t because when you apply the boon to allies, one player will get it first no matter if the skilll applies to 5 targets (server reads one command at time, this is the reason they had to adapt the code for Blinding Ashes), so the ICD starts.

But if you activate Facet of Strength > wait 1 sec > Facet of Darkness > wait 1 sec > either Facet of Light or Elements, that’s 5 extra might stacks permanetly*. With Facet of Nature as well, it goes to extra 8 stacks for ~25 seconds.
*Auto attack only.

It has just been confirmed in another thread that the “5 targets” is for might application, the trait only counts 1 boon on 1 target every 1 second. Meaning you can stack 2 might with each upkeep, but only if you activate them with 1s delay from each other. With 4 upkeeps delayed by 1s you basically give around 8 aoe might.

Hate the fact that to get the max out of it you basically have to count between upkeep activations.

MunkeeBreath.9165:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

I’ll take a look at tweaking the sword AA animations to feel smoother.

Thats it! I now DEMAND for the next revenant specialization to be ROY!!!!

Legendary Dev Stance

Class mechanic: Forum understanding (each time a user gives a feedback Roy will activate a random Legendary Dev Stance skill without consuming energy)

Skill tipe: Shouts (but not loud).

Healing skill: “I’ve watched Wooden Potatoes” (lore understanding and Protection)
Utility skill #1: “Soon™” (aoe Super Speed 1 week later)
Utility skill #2: “When It’s Ready™” (aoe Quickness 2 weeks later)
Utility skill #3: “I’ll write a forum post after the show” (apply 25 stacks of Confusion for 1 day to a party member)
Elite skill: “CHOO CHOO” (summon an hype train with no brakes, giving infinite defiance bar)

Still weak on condi cleanse.

Assuming we manage to delay upkeeps perfectly by 1s we only get from 2 stacks to 10.
But it’s not very funny to count seconds when activating skills. A solution for that may be adding the icd only for the same boon, so that 2 different boons don’t share the same icd.

Still the same might output, but at least we can use skills more freely.

Otherwise if we activate upkeeps without waiting exactly 1s between them we only get might from 1 boon even if we’re giving 5 boons.

I don’t really want to count between skills xD

Or it could be 2 might every seconds for each active facet. we lose effect on facet of nature and jalis road, but we gain on QoL.

oh, right, it’s not selfmight, thanks for the reply.
Then it may be a bit too low :\

It’s a bit offtopic, but it has been datamined that Warrior’s elite spec will have a Berserker stance with +33% movement speed, aoe taunt and defiance bar.
If that’s confirmed, can we expect an energy cost reduction on Jalis chain skill? 50 energy for a single target taunt seems a lot. Also shield #5 without lock (being able to move) at least on the GM trait. It’s not fun to be locked in place “randomly”.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Jekkt.6045:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

If anything, we could tweak duration or stacks if it doesn’t feel good enough when you all get a chance to play it.

roy, would you please share your way of thinking with the other devs? i feel like some of the others would definitely profit from this, and the classes they work on too^^

I do. All of us on working on skills sit together, are all in the same meeting, etc. I’m involved in basically all things involving player combat. We always aim to constantly improve ourselves and our designs.

Roy, can you please explain the “Number of Targets: 5” in the tooltip? How does it work with the 1s icd?
Does it mean that we can get up to 5 stacks of might every 1s?

I’m still not sure if Revenant is viable for a bunker build. I’d be happy id that’s the case. However I can see Glint in that, but not shield unfortunately (I’m a big shield lover).

so if you activate 2 upkeeps with 1 second delay from each other you basically get only around 2 stacks of might, right? Or you get 10 because of 5 targets? The tooltip says “Number of Targets: 5” for a reason I guess, but it’s hard to tell, since if it has an icd then only the first application counts, or it has a window?

If it’s 2 then it’s pretty low.
If it’s 10 for just 2 upkeeps then it’s nice.

I personally use Shiro or Jalis elite as an opening strike. Lyssa’s effect is used even if you have no conditions, meaning you have to save your elites and you can’t open with them or use them offensively.
Of course it’s similar with Sigil of Cleansing, but you can use it more often and you’re sure it’s used everytime you legenswap on that weapon.

With Lyssa you’d have to bet everytime. That rune is meant for elite skills with long cd, so that it’s always a proc.

Also only Facet of Chaos 2nd effect has a cd, not the upkeep. If you legendswap or run out of energy you have no cd on the next upkeep activation. And I believe that the first effect is the one that triggers the rune.

How much is the icd currently?

I agree on that, but the fact is that 5 condis every 45 seconds at the price of 50 energy are not so good, plus you give up to a lot of damage. And it’s not like you can save your elite for when you have many conditions, because you usually have to spam it.

And if you already have glint/jalis+channel, then you probably won’t need any more cleanse. Jalis has basically 2, since now hammers will also reduce the effect of damaging conditions.

Yep. How am I supposed to test stuff for new elite specs?

+1 on this.
Also even with speed buff, please tone down or remove the effect.

anduriell.6280:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Even though a bank reset would be nice, it would most likely mean starting over for the beta account and my preference would be to keep the progress I made in the last beta. At least I would be starting out with gliding already learned.

Masteries are account bound. You can Delete all your chars and not to loose the gliding.
The easy way to reset the beta character is to delete him and create a new one.

that won’t reset beta bank however. It’s shared among beta characters and even if you delete all of them it’s not reset.

Thund.2795:

Hey Berserker!
(I hope the ranger spec covers the new empty space XD)

I believe there are huge proportion mistakes with Herald and Berserker.

MauricioCezar.2673:

Tempest is the most hated elite spec

Because Eles are spoiled.

That one has a 45 seconds icd however.

Shield is currently a pve weapon for sure.

That defiance bar is bad in pvp where people have a brain, but it’s pretty good in pve. It’s basically a 4k heal with no incoming damage and conditions (except the one from previous condis) and 4s stability. There aren’t many bosses that use a lot CC in a row currently.

I have mixed feelings for it in wvw. More bads then goods.

Shield4 is basically Guardian’s with no damage, more healing and way less protection. It’s nice only because we also get Might via trait from it, plus a lot of healing that is always good (just pop it right on you if needed).

I don’t know why people keep saying we have no active energy gain when we actually have and a huge one. Legendswap is an instant +50 energy (up to).

Mallyx without Corruption… uhm… That line is the only one that is basically mandatory for its legend because of Resistance.

However I ‘m not sure if it’s thematically correct or not, but Glint’s Infuse Light absorbs enemy damage.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Kidel.2057:

…while Shiro can heal every condition that stacks in duration.

Those are only 3 conditions, and none of them are damaging. If you go Shiro/Glint, you have no clears aside from the trait-on-swap. Might be worth going with runes of generosity or purification; I already use generosity on most of my classes as a counter to mesmers and burn guards.

As I said, it heals conditions that stack in duration. The context was that you also have Glint healing that basically nullifies every condition that stacks in intensity for 4 seconds, acting almost like a 4 seconds resistance for damaging conditions (except you absorb that damage as healing).

By those runes you actually mean Superior Sigil of Purity (1 condition, chance on hit) and Sigil of Generosity (1 condition transferred to one enemy, chance on critical hit), right?

I don’t like the fact that with those you have no control and that they also trigger when you have no conditions on you, forcing to wait 9-10 seconds when needed. I prefer Superior Sigil of Cleansing, also because it’s triggered by both weaponswap and legendswap on Revenant (basically 2 conditions on legendswap if you also have Cleansing Channel).

I don’t know if it’s going to be needed however (and I hope so, since they are a huge dps loss). I’ll try some dungeons in the next beta and give my review eventually.

I don’t really know about that icd, however superior rune of strength doesn’t make much impact on might stacking on herald (since you already have a lot of it), and makes less impact compared to rune of rage. I’ve tried both, at least on normal revenant, ging to give it a shot again and see if it’s worth the price, but I don’t think so. Might on swap (also works on legendswap) is going to be enough, if skills are not enough already.

However I usually have 25 stacks on might on my guardian while doing dungeons and I have very low selfmight on paper and no rune of strength. AOE might in a good group is insane.

Rune of Str is usually a good choice because it gives a +5% damage bonus when you have a very common boon (every class has might and that’s permanent in groups) and gives a little help stacking it, but Revenant is the first class to have very easy access to Fury and many options for a permanent one (I even excluded 2 of them in my build). No other class can efficiently use the 5% boost from superior rune of rage (maybe guardian has a good uptime, but far form 100%), but Revenant can. I managed to get an easy 100% Fury uptime in last beta, without Glint.

tl;dr with both you get that 5% extra damage, but rune of rage has more synergy and is less wasted (also because it extends your aoe fury by 30%, giving allies a boon that is harder to get).

I could ask the same question for Chronomancer however.
Elite specs are ELITE, meaning they’re usually better then normal specs.

Things will change when we get 2 elite specs for each class and you’ll have to choose.

And yeah, Glint+Shield is basically useless in pvp (not Herald however).

Mai Trin with Ventari sounds fun.

Meh, I also agreed with you on paper until yesterday, but I now want to see how it works in next BW first. I’ll try Shiro/Glint that has almost 0 condi cleanse on paper, just with Cleansing Channel from Invocation line. Roy says Shiro/Glint is what he’s running now, so I’ll try to trust him and learn to use them before addressing a problem that may not exist.

Glint has that healing skill that basically negates all incoming condition damage for 4 seconds, while Shiro can heal every condition that stacks in duration.
My only concern is long Vulnerability (and multiple stacks) that some mobs put on you, but we have Shield + Cleansing Channel for that.

If you run other options with Glint, like Mallyx, Jalis or Ventari, then you have a lot of cleanse/resistance already.

I’m not saying that it’s fine. I’m just saying I want to check it out first.

It’s 5%, while trait is 7%. Fixed, thanks.

Facet of Strength alone is around 5 stacks of permanent might, 8.5 with Facet of Nature.
Shared Empowerment alone may be easily 4 extra stacks every 3 seconds for almost 6 seconds (with 15% duration from trait) from just 1 upkeep active, meaning almost 8 stacks from only 1 upkeep in a group of at least 5. A lot more with 2 upkeeps, imagine 3. Edit: nevermind, I’m sure it has a icd lol.
Charged Mists is another 2 mights (I believe this has an icd, even if the wiki doesn’t say so).
Unrelenting Assault is 7 might stacks.

Activate Facet of Nature 2nd for 3 more might, or passive effect for more stacks from facet of str and shared emp.

Add a sigil if you want to be sure, no need to spend 80g on a runeset when Rage is a better and cheaper option.

Plus in a group, even if not organized, you get a lot of external might (lol, imagine 2 Heralds in a group), meaning that all the extra from the rune is basically wasted and instead it could be permanent fury, cleansing and passive regen on each skill.

Just did a random tequatl with no party and I had 25 might on me all the time on my guardian (I can only stack around 10 might maybe by myself).

Roy Cronacher.1576:

I’ll take a look at tweaking the sword AA animations to feel smoother.

I don’t really think those are an issue, however why didn’t you use the same animations for sword AA on Guardian/Warrior/Mesmer?

Skill effects, cleave and hits are good however. Hoping an eventual change would only affect the swing animation.

I swung a sword™
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZp1qHOBBgc

Roy Cronacher.1576:

There are no plans to add skills or traits which affect energy gain, upkeep gain, or energy cost of skills for the Revenant. These traits very quickly become mandatory choices as it means you can use your skills more often and in the case of energy, it would apply to all your skills since they all use energy. This is a dramatic increase in power across the board.

These kind of traits makes for less interesting choices and cause many problems with balance, often forcing skills to be weaker to compensate for the possibility of a player having all these traits equipped meaning they can use skills much more often then a player without them. But of course there will be balance on on energy costs and recharges of skills to make sure everything feels good and balanced for what it does in the toolkit of the revenant.

I agree. I’ve been saying that in many of my comments in similar sections.
However a little reduction on some energy costs would be nice.

Kidel.2057:

That’s mine: https://twitter.com/TanoKidel/status/630053854223167488/photo/1

Going to add this beauty on Herald

Fashion Mage.3712:

The only thing I learnt from these changes is that they haven’t paid one bit of attention to the actual complaints. As far as I can tell, all that they’ve done is throw out a bunch of random buffs in a poor attempt to appease people. The new virtues aren’t “good”, they’re not even considered to be “okay”. The longbow was not well-received either.

I agree. Nobody cared about 30% more damage on the sigil or range on the spear of justice. We want speed on virtues and bow.

Normal virtues can be casted even while on the ground or when locked into a long skill, without interrupting it. And F3 has a stronger effect with that AOE aegis (that is the best boon in the entire game)

Ele has always been in the top 3 since launch basically.
It is no exception with elite spec, with tempest and chronomancer being the only good elite specs in the last BW. Well, chronomancer was even more OP then mesmer is at the moment. that perma stealth lol.

Seriously people are still QQing when ele is currently the best class in the game and they even buffed Tempest that was basically already fine. Oh come on, Dragonhunter can’t even aim (yes, longbow AA is so slow it can be dodged just walking).

They should nerf Ele before doing tweaks on Tempest, seriously. Ele and Mesmer.

garull.8956:

This https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHwxALLH7nY

And this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3mUpxxbM1Y

Won’t be fixed … Why not put the same mechanic of longbow 3 on Virtue of justice?

LOL