Guild Wars 2

Jinks.2057:

Gotta keep this thread in the front page

So let’s shift this discussion to a different gear shall we?

Have any of u fellas ran into players this week who have flat out impressed you?

I’d say I ran into 1 or 2 backstab thieves that really had their kitten together. I was on my p/d thief and usually I dont have any issues with them, but bravo to whichever EB backstab thieves I fought – they were some enjoyable battles. (I’m a hooded p/d thief from Darkhaven) I’ll try to remember the guild tags and locations next time for a better shout-out.

I’ve played & geared a thief, warrior, ranger, and fiddled around a little bit in the mists with the ele. I haven’t used grenades for the majority of the time I’ve played my engi simply out of dislike of hitting 1 . Although I fully expected something to happen to kit damage once we got sigils or stats, I really do think Anet should’ve buffed the other kits/options to get people out of the grenade rut instead of the 30% reduction.

Netheren.3261:

Haha more power to ya man. No , seriously, more power.

Yeah Ive done too much playing on warrior and elementalist on the side.
After playing my engi so much I had to do something with all those dungeon tokens laying about taking up a bank tab. Unfortunately it kind of opened my eyes to how much work the engi takes to get as much or less results than other profs. :/

Def a home war for sure. But I think engi just lost.

I wouldn’t say that, I’m a LONG way from giving up on the engineer, I have way too much fun with it. Yeah, its not anywhere near as effective at killing people as my war or my thief, but idk, I enjoy the playstyle more. I hope Anet keeps trying fixes, I think we’re headed in the right direction but still a long way off.

tigirius.9014:

Ele
- We see the elementalist as the king of versatility.
Engineer
- The Engineer is a highly versatile class. They can use different kits based on the situation, but this extreme versatility comes at a cost in damage on their main hand weapons.

Engineer the second most versatile class, biggest slap in the face since they launch Nov 16th update.

Not gonna lie, a tad bit demoralizing….I wonder what the ele’s sacrifice to keep their crown?

Netheren.3261:

Like Forty Seven Ninjas.6982:

Netheren.3261:

Like Forty Seven Ninjas.6982:

Netheren.3261:

I tried a tank, dps, control, and boon variation of that build.

The thing I kept realizing in every iteration, extra busywork of keeping HGH going on top of being engi, was FT is STILL BUGGY and less damage than pretty much everything another prof can spec into while retaining “utility”.

See, I’ve gotten kind of used to the upkeep with the elixirs so I didnt really mind. You’re right tho it is busy. I also have never had the constant problems most people do with the FT missing all the time. In general, it works fine minus the obstructed flameblast nonsense. This could just as easily be a static shock – spike build using might & bloodlust sigil to stack power. The point is, I really see a ton of potential in the might synergy that we have going on here.

I totally understand. My shout warrior that heals for more than Egun, removes condition in a wider radius than anything an engi has, while providing 6 perma stacks of might to my entire party along with at least 12 to myself, while putting out more damage and taking FAR more damage with his 8k more vitality would like to have a word with you.

See, but you don’t have any CC on that dude. This engineer will always have a minimum of 2 CC skills every 12-15s. I’m not saying that its a fair trade, but the engineer does not and should never be able to put out the same damage as your warrior. I’d say CC goes a long way in this game, ESPECIALLY when used in a group.

Warrior in question uses a hammer, and a longbow.

That gives me a blind and a 3s immob.(3x longer than next shot)
2 knockdowns, 1 is aoe, and a ranged snare.

No CC? HUh?

lol well it looks like you do have the CC. I’m a little confused by your net shot comment, its 2s no? Idk man, it sounds like you’re at home with your war :P lol. I love the engi and I’m going to continue to have a grand ’ole time with my shiny new flamethrower

Netheren.3261:

Like Forty Seven Ninjas.6982:

Netheren.3261:

I tried a tank, dps, control, and boon variation of that build.

The thing I kept realizing in every iteration, extra busywork of keeping HGH going on top of being engi, was FT is STILL BUGGY and less damage than pretty much everything another prof can spec into while retaining “utility”.

See, I’ve gotten kind of used to the upkeep with the elixirs so I didnt really mind. You’re right tho it is busy. I also have never had the constant problems most people do with the FT missing all the time. In general, it works fine minus the obstructed flameblast nonsense. This could just as easily be a static shock – spike build using might & bloodlust sigil to stack power. The point is, I really see a ton of potential in the might synergy that we have going on here.

I totally understand. My shout warrior that heals for more than Egun, removes condition in a wider radius than anything an engi has, while providing 6 perma stacks of might to my entire party along with at least 12 to myself, while putting out more damage and taking FAR more damage with his 8k more vitality would like to have a word with you.

See, but you don’t have any CC on that dude. This engineer will always have a minimum of 2 CC skills every 12-15s. I’m not saying that its a fair trade, but the engineer does not and should never be able to put out the same damage as your warrior. I’d say CC goes a long way in this game, ESPECIALLY when used in a group.

(edit) CC/movement impairments: overcharged shot, net shot, magnetic shield, static shield, glue shot, air blast.

Netheren.3261:

I tried a tank, dps, control, and boon variation of that build.

The thing I kept realizing in every iteration, extra busywork of keeping HGH going on top of being engi, was FT is STILL BUGGY and less damage than pretty much everything another prof can spec into while retaining “utility”.

See, I’ve gotten kind of used to the upkeep with the elixirs so I didnt really mind. You’re right tho it is busy. I also have never had the constant problems most people do with the FT missing all the time. In general, it works fine minus the obstructed flameblast nonsense. This could just as easily be a static shock – spike build using might & bloodlust sigil to stack power. The point is, I really see a ton of potential in the might synergy that we have going on here.

Ok, so I’m going to get straight to the point. With the new and improved HGH perk, sigils working with kits, and the flamethrower, you can have a constant standing 20-25 stack of might in a fight. How you might ask? Using this build.

Traits:
10/30/0/30/0
V
VI, VIII, XI
II, VII, XI

Equipment
Rabid armor (or the PvE equivalent)
Weapons are really up to the user.
Runes: 2x Fire, 2x Hoelbrak, 2x Strength
Sigil: Strength (I plan on using a stacking sigil & switching it out as I play wvw mainly)

Strategy
The point of this build is to use your elixir B, toss elixir B, and toss elixir H as often as you feel like it. Because the flamethrower hits so quick, your might will skyrocket from standing at 10 (17 if you’re constantly using elixers) to 20-25 with no sweat.

My utillities are: elixer H (just cause its an elixer), flamethrower, elixer S, elixir B, supply crate. What I experienced was a standing armor of ~2800, HP of 18k, Power of 1700, cond dmg of 1800, and crit chance of 49%.

I’m going to continue to tweak it, but I figured you guys need a pick-me-up after that BS ’nade nerf(ish). Post back here with your personalized versions.

kenshinakh.3672:

I believe elementalists have a bit more mobility/speed than a thief. At least that’s what I found when I play my elementalist or race with my friend’s elementalist.

Idk man, on my thief I’ve been able to catch up to d/d ele’s when I feel the need to chase one down. It may be they thought they were fast enough so they didn’t push it, but I haven’t really had trouble catching any class. There is definitely some ring of truth to the OP’s post.

Asomal.6453:

How to fix stealth:

Make hits visible (aka numbers showing on screen rather than looking at your battle log). Now you’ll know when you are hitting the thief and if you don’t…Too bad! You’ve got outplayed.

I totally agree with this. Although condition damage would probably pop off numbers the same way and would sort of make stealth only useful to break targeting.

Auesis.7301:

buki.3108:

So… if you all say there is a counter to stealth, can you even name one?

See where he stealthed? Keep swinging. Thief dies. You win.

I can go ahead and assume by that response that you sit idly and wait for your death the moment the Thief disappears. I see that way too often, and it saddens me.

See tho, when I play my thief I tend to stay away from the kitten swinging his/her sword…. Just sayin, you can’t treat the thief as a piece of wood, they can think and move out of the way much easier than you can swing your sword in the right direction.

But honestly, the easiest way to kill a thief with half a brain is to immobilize or knock’em down then lay into him. (More important against P/D thieves with more health than D/D lolz builds)

I kept waiting for a GIANT dunk with the buff from toss elixir s :P. I enjoyed the video quite a bit, a lot of fun!

Out of curiosity, does anyone know (I’m assuming there is one) what the recharge time on hidden flask is? Or does it just happen every single time you drop below 75% ?

I would love to see a good old fashioned double barreled shotgun. It would be even cooler if they had a standing animation of the character breaking it open and putting shells in (not likely, but we can wish right :P ).

You can jump to the innermost level past the southern inner gate in Stonemist castle using the thief shortbow #5 skill. You may be able to do it with other class’s abilities such as the engineer’s rifle jump or other similar abilities.

By doing this, you can bypass the gate and head directly to the guild lord, I’m fairly certain an easy fix would be to prevent people from jumping on the turret’s base surrounding the gate.

Haven’t seen it be widespread but it needs to be fixed.

Kurow.6973:

Like Forty Seven Ninjas.6982:

Kurow.6973:

Stealth is NOT a free get out of combat card…unless you’re fighting lazy people who don’t put in the effort to predict your moves and chase you to finish you off.

So here’s my thing: when I use stealth to get away, I think to myself “where would I think I was going?” and then do the opposite so I don’t get murdered because of my low health/armor. I have yet to be killed by anyone once I hit stealth in WvW and I’m only lvl 57.

You can’t predict the moves if the thief is smart, that argument goes both ways.

Tells you a lot about the players playing WvW and the culling issues, doesn’t it?

It doesn’t necessarily say anything about WvW players, simply that stealth is too good, albeit the culling issues need to be fixed before ANYTHING else is changed.

I know I have crap health and armor so I build around stealth so when I need to get away I have a legit 10-15 seconds of stealth (blinding powder, shadows refuge, CnD & so forth). The main point I was trying to make is that stealth is way too good of a defensive tool than a lot of people make it out to be.

Kurow.6973:

Stealth is NOT a free get out of combat card…unless you’re fighting lazy people who don’t put in the effort to predict your moves and chase you to finish you off.

So here’s my thing: when I use stealth to get away, I think to myself “where would I think I was going?” and then do the opposite so I don’t get murdered because of my low health/armor. I have yet to be killed by anyone once I hit stealth in WvW and I’m only lvl 57.

You can’t predict the moves if the thief is smart, that argument goes both ways.

Volrath.1473:

Amins.3710:

2 Main Issues:

1) Culling
2) Can use Full zerker build and still have the same survivability and very little downside compared to other classes that have to spec for survivability (at the cost of dmg).

Sorry I have to disagree, despite what non thieves say, thieves DO sacrifice survivability when going glass canon, just as they lose quite a lot of dmg when specing for stealth control or “support” (yeah the thieve profession has very little support but there is something there).

I know people say this ^^, but I’ve been playing (edit: a thief) since lvl 40 in WvW, my armor is maybe 2100, and health around 11,000. I have died 2x because I have stealth. Based on my experiences, I think I will go for ’zerkers on my first exotic set. Stealth is WAY more powerful than you thieves give it credit for.

I think what needs to happen is they need to have skills do different things for sPvP and PvE/WvW just like GW1.

I started with an engineer, got him to 80, did a warrior, got him to 35, currently doing a thief am at 58 leveling in WvW. I cannot believe how much easier every single WvW fight is playing a thief. It is way too easy to pick the terms of the fight because of stealth. I can screw up multiple times (still learning!) and STILL get away or win a fight. Even at level 40 I attacked lvl 80s and bailed if I couldn’t kill them. There is no way in the world you would be able to do this with any other class. Mobility is key, but this is a little out of hand.

PvE isn’t any easier with the thief, haven’t tried sPvP with him, but in WvW thieves have a huge advantage because of the ability to pick the rules of engagement every single time. From being on both ends of a stealth superdamage build, I seriously think that the thief should de-cloak with any attack, not just one that does damage. Too many times my backstab missed, but I get another shot….doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. I do think that the thief should have high risk, high reward playstyle, but stealth is by far the most powerful mechanism in the entire game. Also, being able to drop bleed, poison, burn, AND go stealth when you hit heal is complete BS. Maybe 1 of them, but not all.

This said, I love playing WvW with my P/D thief. It is a blast, can’t wait till I hit 80, cause if changes haven’t happened by then, things will be really out of hand!

Babanovac.2496:

Lyan.6804:

Assuming u all have exotics gear, how did u get them?

Earned karma in WvW and bought the gear in Orr.

Same here, 3 karma sets cause I’m stupid and indecisive. I really REALLY don’t to have to do this with ascended gear as well.. I dont particularly enjoy PvE and I’m a bit bummed that I’ll have to go back for quite a while to still compete in WvW once all the ascended gear comes out.

Tanyl.3249:

I like the ideas. I personally don’t like having to spend GOLD at all for the Commander title, or the need for consensus, because those that simply dislike someone for personal reasons can use that to prevent someone from becoming a Commander.

IF you got the skill you should be able to earn the title. Being able to work for it thru being active in WvW and prehaps earning WvW specific exp would be nice, and that exp would be used to raise your rank in WvW. Simular to how the old school pvp system was on say, WoW when folks could earn High Warlord rank. That was fine, then Blizzard changed it and made the crappy pvp system they use now. Being able to BUY your rank as Commander with the in-game currency simply means any player with enough time to farm and make gold, can be a Commander. Gold does not equal Pvp/WvW skill. We need players with actual skill as Commanders, not just any rich player that might buy it just to show off but actually sucks in WvW.

Btw folks, please dont rage cause I mention WoW, I quit the game, dont like it anymore or I wouldnt be here. Only saying the way you earned ranks back then in the old vanila WoW was actual good, you had to WORK for it basically.

I wish they’d get rid of the need to use gold or skill points to buy or upgrade stuff in WvW. Robbing us of skill points or the gold we need for our gear, or Legendary in WvW is just wrong. I have no problem repairing in WvW, although I think IF a player kills you, that shouldnt damage your armor. IF npcs kill you then that causes armor damage. After all, lower level players that want to try out WvW shouldnt have to go broke repairing gear everytime a player kills them, which will happen a lot till they get use to it. But they should have enough sense to becareful against npcs.

Last, please A-net, it would be nice if you had seperate servers for running WvW and SPvP, as they would probably run a lot better if they did.

You know what would be awesome? If to get commander you first had to put in (X) hours in WvW and had to have been part of (Y) events of each type, THEN you can pay for the title or what not, I think this would really help with the inexperience that we’ve all seen, or people just outright buying the title (altho, this method would cut down on the profitability of commander status for ANet :P )

Out of curiosity, how many commanders do the other servers typically have on at one time? It seems that we, in DH, have a new group of 3-4 every single week. I think it adds to the lack of organization that we seem to be plagued with :P

I really wish the cast time were instant or at least .5sec for the toolbelt, I’d love to use the skill in a static shock build, I think it could be pretty solid.

Fun fact, throw mine’s cooldown isn’t effected by the 20% gadget cooldown reduction from tools, and the toolbelt skill’s cooldown also isn’t effected by any points in tools. I’ll put this in the bug section as well, but I thought this might not get buried as quickly :P

Ploppy.2917:

Like Forty Seven Ninjas.6982:

That may be the case, I think though that overall the engineers provide more utility because they do have several very effective damaging builds as well as great support potential. The point I was mainly trying to get across was that grenades are definitely not they only build engineers have to do damage – and if someone isn’t very good at ground targeting, grenades may not even be the best option for them for dps.

With no traits and with standard gear, grenade damage is almost double that of the next best ranged “kit” (rifle). And unless I’m very much mistaken, explosives actually improve better with traits than the non-explosive kits do (partially because of the raw Power bonus, partially because the extra grenade, extra range, extra radius and extra status effects make a huge difference) .

You’d have to be really, really bad at lobbing grenades not to see at least a 50% damage increase compared to your normal weapons.
My problem with the kit is that I feel absolutely compelled to use it as much as possible because it kills things so much faster, even though I hate mashing the “1” button twice a second. If I use another kit, I feel like I’m heavily crippling myself.

I don’t know how bad you’d have to be to not see the damage boost, but there are definitely people out there who cannot aim (tho if the OP is one of these people, not sure I would recommend an ele either ).

Again, I am not only looking at it from a pure damage standpoint. I typically don’t use grenades unless I’m in WvW. Grenades are good, don’t get me wrong there, but I personally don’t use them all of the time and I don’t notice the huge damage drop. You have to remember though, damage is only part of this game, I really do believe control is equally or more-so important than shear damage output. Grenades have 0 control (if you don’t count the small chill) while the flamethrower, tool-kit, elixir gun, and bombs have some sort of movement/control aspect to them. This is why I don’t feel compelled to use grenades.

edit: make my thoughts a tad more fluid

Ploppy.2917:

coglin.1496:

Like Forty Seven Ninjas.6982:

Engineers have more than one viable build, viable is a stupid word.

Good lord I could not agree more. Folks love to claim builds are not viable, even though hundreds of folks thrive using them every day.

Viable is a nice word, sorry to burst your linguistic bubble. And while engineers don’t have exactly one single viable build, they’re much more limited than Eles in what they can accomplish offensively. I’m not talking about support or healing, mind you.

That may be the case, I think though that overall the engineers provide more utility because they do have several very effective damaging builds as well as great support potential. The point I was mainly trying to get across was that grenades are definitely not they only build engineers have to do damage – and if someone isn’t very good at ground targeting, grenades may not even be the best option for them for dps.

coglin.1496:

Like Forty Seven Ninjas.6982:

Engineers have more than one viable build, viable is a stupid word.

Good lord I could not agree more. Folks love to claim builds are not viable, even though hundreds of folks thrive using them every day.

I removed the stupid word part while you were posting I guess haha because I didn’t want the dude above me to think i was attacking him, I’m not, I’m just tired of hearing that engineers are confined to ’nades.

Engineers have more than one viable build. I think eles are consistently a bit more complicated than an engineer (which is by no means a bad thing, I love swapping attunements/kits for constant abilities), I only say this because engineers dont always have to have kits while eles will always have their attunements.

I personally enjoy playing my engineer way more than an ele because I have the versatility to be a ballin’ support guy, or dish out some great dps without re-traiting. Also maybe the reason I like the engineer most in pvp is the control options, being able to keep someone on the ground for like 10 seconds is hilarious and very very powerful.

Amulrei.4973:

These notes are a joke. No nerfs for Warriors, next to nothing meaning for Thieves but that’s fine, lets slam Engineers with PvP nerfs on grenades of all things because they are the tyrants of SPvP now…?

This HAS to be some sort of joke, right AN?

LOL ^^ this, made me crack up, its a little ridiculous, not even going to lie. I’d bet its to make the grenade kit work in sPvP the way it does in PvE, without having any weapons stats (the amulet has all stats so kits dont miss out on weapon stats) — not saying it makes sense, but that’d be my guess.

I think the thing I’m honestly most disappointed with is that you can no longer see a user name while using the report tool in WvW.

“You can no longer view opponents’ account names through reporting in WvW.”

I was very bummed because I had some very great conversations with some of the people I’ve dueled/others in general. Now instead of them just being another soldier fighting for their cause, they are just another invader….

I’m assuming this was removed because too many people were kitten hats and were talking actual trash, and I think that that’s a shame.

Kelo.4370:

Every profession needs some manner of being unique and required in WvW. Right now a Thief can bring lasting group Stealth to allow team to bypass defenses and get behind siege and take out it’s operators. Mesmer’s can portal their entire server from one location to another, and even bypass walls and doors if left inside a keep/tower after it has been re-fortified after a siege. Guardian’s can put up shields to protect an entire server from ranged damage, or protect siege equipment from taking damage.

So why? Why can’t Engineer do what Engineers do and use the supply they have on them to repair siege equipment on the field? It could even cost double or triple the original building cost to fully repair it (as in the amount of health on the siege repaired per supply). Engineer desperately needs something to stand out in WvW something to make them unique and desired by guilds.

RIGHT?! This would actually make engineers use the toolkit besides in static shock burst builds. I think this would be freakin awesome, and would really make engineers even more of an asset during sieges. It would give those who dont want to use grenades as much value as those who are focusing on dps.

deviller.9135:

As the title said, we need a change how tornado/whirlpool work as an elite skill. (maybe this has been talk over and over, but lets talk about it once again)

Strength of Tornado: push opponent (NPC/player), damage them (can be small or large depens on your activated skill). Strength of whirpool: pull opponent, damage them (flat). Other strength: give you stability, HP increase, power/precision increase (small).

Weakness: AOE 5 man cap (yup you cannot push or pull more than 5 opponent in the same time : I note this in WvW), pull and push based on tick (it means it will not always push or pull, try this on NPC and you will see it), has small range (240 radius >> same as your animation), enemy can hit you by range (and hit you by melee between tick), long cooldown.

What need to change/added:
1. reflect all projectile or destroy all projectile (while in tornado/whirlpool form).
2. increase the range.
3. elementalist get speed buff (while in tornado/whirlpool form).
4. reduce the cooldown.
5. decrease cd for subsequent push or pull.
6. or make it so no AOE cap for this skill.

Give me your tought about this.

I agree, this elite really isn’t up to par. I play an engineer, we have the tornado/whirlpool form as a random chance (its the better random chance) I agree, the ability really should reflect projectiles, or at least protect against some sort of damage instead of just giving a health buff. I agree with the OP on the points in one way or another.

coglin.1496:

In my opinion, avoiding damage is the best defense.

Engineers are very possibly the best endurance regenerating class’ in the game. With Toss elixir S, invigorating speed, elixir R, adrenalin implant, adrenalin pump.

Infused Precision+ Invigorating Speed+Adrenal Implant are a ridiculous combo that allow you to avoid incredible amounts of damage.

I thought I had read somewhere that for some odd reason vigor didn’t stack with Adrenal Implant. I hope I read completely wrong, coglin, do you know for sure that it stacks? I hope it does, I’ll try it and see if I can get any definitive results.

(edit) *UPDATE
I did tests in the mists stacking vigor with adrenal implant. I evaded 2x consecutively to deplete endurance.

Base : 21 sec for full recharge
Adrenal Implant trait only : 14 sec for full recharge
Vigor only : 10.5 sec for full recharge
Vigor and Adrenal Implant trait : 10.5 sec for full recharge

This is kind of a bummer, and I hope it is a bug, but vigor and Adrenal Implant do not stack, and furthermore, vigor gives better endurance regen.

First a disclaimer for my post: I’ve gone through AC on story mode and one other dungeon on story mode so I’m not super all pro at dungeons. On the other hand, I’m not completely kitten or handicapped when I play, I rarely die in PvE or WvW. Hope this gives a little bit of back round to my opinion.

Ok, in the very little experience I’ve had with the dungeons, I’ve found them to be quite a bit more difficult than I was expecting for story mode. I haven’t bothered to go back and do the rest because of the perceived difficulty. I do not nor have I ever played a glass cannon build (Engineer) but I was, as the OP stated, naked, very quickly in my playthroughs.

I have no problem with the explorable mode being very difficult (rewards need to be earned), but as it stands right now the story mode seems like a bit too much for the average player.

Seod.7924:

Playing engineer mostly just for WVW, i have to agree, the mortar begs for better range.

1. Needs better range and los
2. Way too easy to destroy a mortar by spamming meteor shower (elem) or barrage (ranger), because we have to set our mortar near the edge of a wall, to get better range. Kinda sad if you think about it, it’s a elite skill and we can’t (most of the time) use it for more than 10 seconds. 10 sec for a 2 min cooldown, is not worth it, especially when you can throw nades at the same range of a mortar and you have mobility.

So now i never use the mortar.

Grenades make it relatively obsolete. They are mobile, have a relatively comparable range, and they don’t have a 2min cooldown. Seriously, I would use the mortar in WvW all the time if it had good range or did more damage to justify that cooldown.

Also, not being able to hit things out of your line of sight with a mortar is total BS. That is why they arc so much, so you can hit things that are behind other things and far away.

Raideen.5973:

All I know is that regardless of gear, spec or weapon. When a warrior, guardian or thief get on top of me, its 4 hits and game over….yet another 1.62 silver spent.

Engineers should be able to burn down as fast as we get burnt down.

And frankly, I am tired of spending gold regearing, regemming and respeccing just to find that all specs end up the same…not enough damage output for the amount of damage we take.

Lol. Sucks to suck? Idk man, that’s all I’ve got for you, if gear and spec changes haven’t helped you, then you should probably switch classes. The engineer is powerful, versatile, and easily a match for any other class in the game in WvW (which is what I’m assuming you’re playing).

@Coglin, seriously, sometimes you make good points, but then you throw all of that to the curb with the nonsense you spout.

@Decklan, the reason the engineer is the “least” played class is because it is a very complicated class to play. You actually have to use more than 2 or 3 buttons to do well – CRAZY right!?

I’m really really not sure why you seem to be having so many problems doing damage, I roll with my friend who always plays his ranger in WvW and I am definitely the spike damage guy. If the engineer was as “broken” as you would have EVERYONE believe, we would be seeing more fixes than we’ve seen. Clearly the engineer is doing better than some of the other classes like say the necro or the ranger.

Leuca.5732:

Fix post-stealth rendering, and make stealth end on attempted targeted skill, not landed. After that I could care less what they do to stealth in its current form. There’s no punishment for a bad thief that completely misses his backstab because I timed my dodge well; he’s still in stealth and can try again

Yeah, other than this ^^ I don’t see any issues with the current state of the thief.

leftharted.7102:

Ugh, your hard up aint cha??

im not arguing that condition is Better, or Higher Damage, im arguing that its Viable. Acording to your logic, the numbers arent as high, therefore its not viable. That is a biased opinion….

MY point, is condition spec is and can be Effective, if you play it well, and most importantly, you Like it…

Your point, is the damage is inferior, so Everyone should avoid it… i disagree. because Alot of people dont have condition removal.. let alone the ability to consistently wipe them.. even with 409, with them being reapplied every second, doesnt make much of a difference. even Vs a mesmer, let them wipe them all, they have 45 sec cooldown to do so again…. im Already re-applying them… Condition specs focus on skills that do condition damage, which tend to apply secondaries…. condition spec’s lean towards our utility, power spec can do this aswell, but sacrafices alot of their own damage for not utilizing the most advantageous skills for their spec. This is by design, which you hinted at… most cond. applying abilities are coupled with secondary effects, due to the fact that you are relying on not doing all your damage, instantly, by design, by Anet.

do you realize im fighting for a fair opinion, for each indicidual, and your only defense is “No, my numbers are higher.” Sheer amount of Damage, no matter how long it took to apply, does not mean You have the best build, and everyone who doesnt build ‘like’ you, is kittening themselves. Thats wrong, that Your biased opinion.

Also, mentioning scale numbers that we can all find in some wiki, is irrelevant… that info can be wrong, (especially with NO way to actually check its credetials…. duh? any ole nerd can mess with the wiki.) let alone Anets focus atm is PVP balance, so ill bet these values change, Alot. Yuh know what that means?? they want things Fair… they want anyone to build the way they want, without cons… simply put, they are working towards Destroying the ‘cookie cutter’ build craze…. this is the most balanced MMO PVP ive ever played (and i mean truly balanced…) yet the system is not perfect… Anet will be changing things soon, with the term “Balanced” in mind…

so, if you think the scale is tilted your way….. itll tilt back….

but hey, no hard feelings? same team? im not trying to argue really.. its just a game… which is also why im not going to go through all the fact checking and math B.S. …. because, im effective with my build… no matter what you calculate =p

so… agree to disagree???

^^ this, I agree 100%. There are definitely advantages and disadvantages to each power and condition dmg, anyone who goes to either extreme as a be-all, end-all is simply wrong. That being said, there are definitely different builds that excel with different damage types.

I think a good mix of power and condition damage would serve the OP well. For PvE, you can add a stacking sigil to your main weapon to supplement either power, condition or precision, depending on where you feel you’re lacking.
For the flamethrower, I personally would go 30 into firearms (Juggernaut), and at least 10 into power (%burn on crit), and at least 20 into elixers (for the 15% dmg boost to flamethrowers) and use a sigil to supplement power. The stacks of might along with the sigil will have you putting everything into the ground.

Dante.3754:

In spvp yes, in WvW it could work if you are in a small fight but melee in general (bombs are basically melee come on) usually doesn’t last long in a zerg fest. That being said smoke bomb could buy you some time to gtfo after diving into the enemy.

I totally agree, in WvW, you can get some good combo fields and really benefit your team with both the elixer gun and the bomb kits. Make use of the rocket boots as a stun breaker as well as a great gtfo tool

coglin, seriously, you know that when you reply to be an kitten to people asking questions that you just bump the thread….so that it stays up top longer..

insanemaniac.2456:

get speedy kits (10 tools)

Kit refinement is waaaaay better for an elixir gun healing build.

Lifelike.5862:

Ok, so I’ve decided to go full healer/tank engie. I’ve put 30 points into both defensive trees, but now I’m stuck on choosing where to put the next 10 points. If I’m using elixer gun, I put it in tools, but if I’m using bombs I put it in explosives. Tough decision, since I plan on only using one kit (I need the other 2 slots for elixers)

I personally dont think 30 is needed in vitality to be a great healer. I think you would be much better served with only 20 there and 10 in both explosives, and tools, but I would also use 2 kits instead of 2 elixirs, but thats me.

Which elixirs are you using and why? If you’re shooting for condition removal, elixer gun is amazing at that. I dont really care for HGH, but I’ve seen a lot of people use it, I don’t see the point of focusing on might unless you can 7-13 stacks of it (I’m assuming you’re using HGH).

If you use elixer gun, make sure to use the kit refinement trait. If you’re doing healing, use clerics, but dont half kitten it if you’re going to do it, use P/S with a bomb kit and the healing bombs trait. Put either 10 or 20 points into explosives and pick the bomb explosion radius for sure. I’d put the rest into firearms to get the cooldown bonuses for your weapons. This build will leave you with not very much crit chance, so if you really want that, use elixer B and medkit to augment this.

I find the stacking sigils for your weapons are a great way to add additional damage or healing or crit chance, depending on what you’re shooting for.

This build will make you a great healer/condition remover, as well as give you a decent amount of damage using bombs/combo fields which will give a larger overall bonus than a few stacks of might to your buddy, I promise. Shield #4 is great for blast combo.

Hope it helps!!

-Dr Hoppenheimer

Use a flamethrower and a rifle, both hit a good amount of people. Do 10/30/0/30/0 or something similar, and you can go ahead and pick your other utility skills. I personally like elixir b coupled with the medpack for lots of fury & other boons.

For gear go toughness power and precision. Trait Juggernaut for extra toughness and might, the rest is really up to you!! This build should have you around 2500-2700 armor (idk the toughness #), ~19-20k health, with a great crit chance and a decent amount of power. If you want more survivability, take 10 points from somewhere and drop it into your last trait line and pick kit refinement coupled with the elixer gun. It will give you the ability to stack heals and make you very tough to kill.

Hope this helps, its what I used for a decent amount of my PvE leveling. Go to the mists and just screw around with gear/traiting for a while, i promise, you’ll find TONS of awesome builds by just doing that.

(edit) another thought, to ensure the most might at all times, make sure when you’re running around have the flamethrower out so might stacks. When your weapons are on cooldown, dont forget to switch back to flamethrower!!

Also, the stats are for a lvl 80 w/exotics so dont feel bad if you have trouble getting there at a lower level or non exotic gear.

I’ve been having some issues with self regulating defenses, I’m still taking damage and being able to be immobilized while under the “evade” effects.

Nirvana : “No i wont play another class.
I already have a thief,and is superboring due to the fact that i troll / roflstom my enemy not even using my brain…and after i roflstomp ppls that easly,there is no clue in continue play a superOP class,that while i play no one can counter (oh yeah,may be i’m too much pro..pfff).” —sorry, not able to reply

I think the issue you’re having is actually having to make your own builds instead of having something that is ^^THAT laid out for you. I have 0 trouble countering thieves in WvW, just bring a stun breaker.

As to your complaints about the only workable build being grenades, I 100% disagree. Grenades is a great build, and if you are good with them, you’ll dominate even if your opponents can see. But they are not the only way to do damage. Elixer-permafury-power builds, pistol pistol elixer condition builds, static discharge builds are all builds that work amazingly in PvP, WvW, and even PvE. There are definitely more, but those are just some off the top of my head.

The point is, I’ve spent hours in the mists trying different combinations of skills and traits and equipment to find new and interesting ways to play, but our class is NOT worse than any other class in terms of power or survivability. We are currently a very balanced class with some bugs that do need fixing (but everyone has those). When played correctly we can compete at the highest levels without any difficulty.

The engineer is a class that requires thought to optimize its performance. I’m not going to say l2p, but seriously, people need to spend a lot more time and thought putting their build together before running here and yelling.

(edit) I’m currently not using the grenade kit, and I haven’t used it for most of the time i’ve played. Thought i’d throw this out there to counter the “only people who aren’t complaining bit”

SixSins.7610:

Versatility! The idea that one character can run Pistol/Shield and deal serious condition damage and crowd control, equip an Elixir Gun and keep up the conditions while healing and removing conditions on allies, and drop a thumper turret to tank and knock people around is just FUN! Add to that the mobility we have with rocket boots, elixir gun 4, perma-swiftness, perma-or-very-near-perma-vigor and we can have a lot of fun!

And perma-fury ftw.

I know elixer S will not break an immobilize, so if you’re already in one, it wont break it (if i had to guess, i’d say you got hit with immobilize right before you popped it). The tooltip says it will break stun, and as far as I understand, immobilize and stun are different conditions. Not sure if this is the issue you’re running into, but I thought it was worth some looking into.

XelNigma.6315:

Seeing as we already have some very cartoony skills like the personal battering ram, slick shoes, a shrink/enlarge potion, and (defective) rocket boots, to name a few. I can see the engineer getting trick arrows.

With skills like glue shot and magnet, again to name a few, its clear the engineer is a “joke” class.
Were kinda the Go-Go Gadget of the guildwars2 world. that is, our devices are meant to be a joke rather than practical, or in the case of the rocket boots, designed to fail.

Whoh whoh whoh now, rocket boots are actually really good in WvW and in a general for a condition build!! I agree that some of the skills are supposed to be goofy (which I love), but, I have yet to find an ability that isn’t actually good when used right.

Thanks, TeoH, the mists was my first idea, but I’m too cheap to buy another character slot. Like I said, I use grenades, so when a thief goes invis, I usually start throwing in a radial-ish pattern if I dont know where they were headed.

Quite a few posts emphasized that thieves still take damage, yes, I did know that. I’ve killed a bunch while stealthed, but losing sight is a GREAT escape tool by itself. More so, in my opinion, than a 3-4 sec damage evasion (elixer S). I’ve found that when I get the stealth part of a thrown elixer S, i have a MUCH greater chance at escaping than I do when just using its stun break/evasion abilities. I appreciate everyone’s responses!

After playing WvW a decent amount, I’ve been thinking more and more about making a thief, might have to delete my ele to do it, I’m glad the stealth doesnt seem to be the gtfo button. Thanks again guys!

bwillb.2165:

It doesn’t stop incoming damage and you can’t attack without breaking stealth. Compare that to warrior or guardian oh snap abilities that completely block incoming damage and let the warrior or guardian attack through em… I’m not really sure why a discussion is even needed. Stealth is more of a positioning and combo tool than anything else.

The discussion is because I asked a question, so when you need to bail from a fight, do you not pop stealth? How long is the cooldown/uptime on the ability? With or without specs, idk if you know off the top of your head.

BlackRabbit.1259:

you will survive longer if you invest more in tough/vit. both through skillpoints and gear.

1/2 ltp
1/2 thief issues

case closed m’lud

Yeah, and I completely disagree with 10+ sec to kill someone as a different class. I play engineer with a relatively balanced build, 3100dmg, 30-60%crit, 2700 armor, 20k health, and I can roll people with poor gear (non exotic) or glass cannons using grenades and CC VERY quickly, definitely in less than 10 seconds.

Bottom line: if you catch that thief with your burst, more than likely, you’ll tear right through him because his build is to deal damage, not to take it.