Sorry, Narcemus. Couldn’t fit your post here, too lenghty
I won’t even bother answer Konig’s thread because I know he will disagree with every word I’m going to say, so there’s no point on me arguing with him. But the relation I see between the gods and the ED is not about the very essence of he gods because we’ve seen part of the pantheon rise and fall.
We know Grenth took over Dhum. We know Abbadon took over some eldest god and then Kormir took over Abaddon.
Every time a god takes over, he/she gives the power slot a new meaning. Like kormir changing secrets into truth. But her underlying power is basically the same, knowledge.
I loved how the aspect of the gods quest on EotN hinted that dragons may be related to gods as for every one of the 6 gods there was a dragon aspect.
I’m not saying that the gods are the dragons I’m not saying that they even share a domain. I only say that there’s a connection. Maybe there’s their raw power source. Maybe there’s something else. Because the Aesthetical theme is far to close (and note that my reason is not entirely based on lore but on graphic design).
A year ago we had 5 dragons and even then, we had some theorist saying that gods may be related with dragons because there’s something that just makes you feel that.
Now we have the same amount of dragons as we have gods.
My gut is telling me that we’ll see their relation soon enough. But from pure lore, there’s no evidence that they’re related at all. I can agree with that.
The thing is that from pure lore we don’t have evidence that we will be able to kill another dragon.
From pure lore we don’t have evidence that the pact will stay together.
But these are things that we know will happen anyway.
The same is with the gods having a relation with the dragons.
And again, note that I’m not saying they’re the same, they just share something.
To answer your question Ludo, think of the world of humanity as an apple that was about to be chomped down on by a horse. The Banana was still a long ways from the hand of the monkey, so they moved humanity there to keep them safe for a little longer. :P
So let me get this straight. You’re telling me that the mists is a monkey and there was a horse in the monkey about to eat an apple which was a monkey world and the aspects of the monkey saved humanity from becoming horse droppings by putting them in the banana held by the monkey which has a horse inside???
There’ve been plenty of threads about this line of thought. Even thought the first posts were quite reluctant to tie the gods and the dragons. The state of affairs is that even though we don’t know how’re they related. There’s a relation there.
Balthazar – Primordious
Melandru – Mordramoth
Dwayna – Jormag
Lyssa – Kralkatorrik
Grenth – Zhaitan
Kormir – Chtulhu
I too would like to know more about this, but I think is part of the core story of the game and more information would be released as the time passes.
Even though Konig des Todes would disagree with me, I advise you to go and look Wooden Potatoes’ video about the gods and the dragon aspects on youtube.
If they are going to keep him around, he NEEDS a change in armor. While wearing cultural does good to introduce him. It hardly does anything good when he’s leading a multi organization army.
If they were to give him some form of unique armor then it’d make sense for a visual appearance.
He’s the leader of the pact and he needs to wear something that not only shows he’s a leader but shows that he cares bout his safety by wearing specialized armor so the pact’s leader isn’t so squishy in appearance.
He’s the pact political leader, he isn’t even a strategical leader. Even though he had to take some strategic decisions, he relayed on the players and to make them and then he assumed the responsibility for them. He’s just the glue to the pact.
He’s got a fine sword, but his wildhunt is fulfilled, so I don’t see him fighting any longer.
What many people don’t know, the Mists are actually forming a giant monkey, who holds the banana. Isn’t nature beautiful?
Does that mean that the 6 gods are the aspects of the ape?
Would that explain why there are no apes nor monkeys on Tyria? (I know in GW1 there were some, but they disappeared)
Did the gods bring the humans from another monkey world to Tyria??
I do think there has been a lot more seismic activity’s not only in mount maelstrom. Maybe the rise of Orr caused this or maybe something else??.
Just look at the ruins in Ascalon, and specificly how many off them are standing sideways. That ruins become ruins is only logical. That some are half sinking in the ground is normal as wel. But why e.g. all ruins are on a hill, and all are tilted as if they where build on flat terrain could in my opinion only be caused by seismic activity’s. Im not ingame atm to make a screenshot, but just look from the TP in the black citadel to the west at the ruins of nolani.
The change in ascalonian terrain ocurred due to the searing 250 years ago. It wasn’t seismic activity, it was huge crystals of death falling from the sky, altering the terrain.
Nope. See included screenshot of ruins in Rin in GW2 (all tilted) and the same ruins in POST-seering Rin where they where damaged, but standing upright.
If you don’t believe, me go to GW1 and replay Nolani academy mission. I just did to check. Not a tilted ruin in sight.
Also note that the entire landscape contains much more hills.
Last remark. I did use Rin and Nolani as an example, wich we never visit in pre-seering.
These kind of geoligical changes (obvious caused not by the seering) don’t normally happen within 250 years unless there is seismic activity
Point taken. I guess you can blame this mostly on Deathwi… err… Primordious.
I do think there has been a lot more seismic activity’s not only in mount maelstrom. Maybe the rise of Orr caused this or maybe something else??.
Just look at the ruins in Ascalon, and specificly how many off them are standing sideways. That ruins become ruins is only logical. That some are half sinking in the ground is normal as wel. But why e.g. all ruins are on a hill, and all are tilted as if they where build on flat terrain could in my opinion only be caused by seismic activity’s. Im not ingame atm to make a screenshot, but just look from the TP in the black citadel to the west at the ruins of nolani.
The change in ascalonian terrain ocurred due to the searing 250 years ago. It wasn’t seismic activity, it was huge crystals of death falling from the sky, altering the terrain.
OMG!!11one1!!eleven1!! This explains so many things!!! And on the other hand it raises so many new questions!!
Is primordious eating its content?
Do de asura eat fruit because they lived in the dephts?
Is the flaming legion trying to make a flamed banana?
AND SO MANY OTHER!!
I was seeing the well known map found in the chantry of secrets and I was wondering what’s the 3D shape of tyria.
¿Is it a globe or a donut?
I mean east is clearly connected to west.
¿But is north connected to south (donut shaped world)?
On a side-note, I know the texture is on a globe, but in AC there’s a globe with the map of tyria (the continent) alone, so the shape on which the map is drawn is not a reliable indication.
Just don’t skip the cinematics from your character creation and your personal story.
And listen to the scouts as you complete the maps.
You don’t need more lore than that.
The naga from factions are probably still in Cantha somewhere, and the forgotten and the krait are different species. The krait seem to have originated in Tyria while the forgotten emerged from the mists.
Krait have two arms while forgotten have four.
Kinda like how the dwarves, norn and humans are all different species but share many outward physical similarities.
Oh and to be clear about the naga, Anet has confirmed that the naga and forgotten are completely different but there’s nothing that says that concretely about the relationship between the krait and the forgotten.
I think it’s more likely that the krait are related to the naga than to the forgotten.
Don’t you think there’s even a chance that they’re all related?
I mean, there’s a chance that humans an dwarves are related someway.
I believe that norn are just shapeshifting kodan that embraced the human spirit at some point and didn’t remember how to turn back permanently into bear.
The DSD is one possibility given the water associations – while we’ve seen that draconic corruption from one source does not prevent corruption from another, it’s possible that the DSD had some reason to create some enchantment to specifically block the creation of minions by other dragons.
Another possibility that we’re missing is that it might be somehow tied to the Forgotten. From what we currently know, the Forgotten are/were the experts at denying things to the dragons – why they would work with water specifically is unknown (but we also don’t know enough about them to say that they wouldn’t) but an artifact that prevents draconic corruption in an area around it probably would be right up their alley.
Incidentally, I’m pretty sure we’ve been told that the Priory and the Order know about the DSD, which means the Pact knows.
And the forgotten look suspiciously similar to the krait. May they have a common ancestor?
If you say Crystal desert is tied to the charr at all, or more than to the humans I’m gonna slap you with an asura.
Indirectly, yes. Kralkatorrik is the dragon that messed with their lands and it is located in the desert now. It wouldn’t be the first time they go there. The charr marched through the desert in ages past and destroyed Orr.
But no. Of course it’s not their homeland. We’ve got a point of agreement there.
Racial-focus among expansions. Just to avoid confusion.
Also, ArenaNet already said they’re doing expansions, not campaigns. The stand-alone campaign concept used in Guild Wars 1 won’t be kept in GW2.
Yes, racial focus among expansions.
I didn’t know they said that they’re not doing stand alone campaigns. Racial focused expansions would fit into the development model you said A.Net is taking now, anyway.
The idea is to focus on racial development, i.e, new animations and models.
You could always go with your basic GW2 char whatever the race it is and do the story. But it would be the story of the given expansion’s race.
Like the 4 stories in EotN. We were humans, but helping dwarves, asura, norn, charr and other humans.
This would kind of fit in the GW1 model in which an expansion didn’t require the previous one.
In this case all expansions would need the basic GW2, but they wouldn’t require each other.
I was thinking about Kaineng and I remembered the lack of char presence there. There are mostly humans and a kaineng expansion would be great as a human expansion.
That means that we would need an expansion for every race.
Cantha: Humanity
History of Xenophobic Canthans and their oppressing emperor.
DSD maybe?
Depths of Tyria: Asura
The retaking of the depths from the claws of Primordius.
Maguma and Beyond: Sylvari
The discovery of Mordremoth and the fight against it.
The North: Norn
Fight against Jormag, rescue the Kodan.
Char Breeding Grounds + Crystal Desert: Char
Fight of the clans. Fight against Kralkatorrik
That means that we could go in depth with every racial issues and lore.
Do you like the idea??
Well, going back to the topic. I’d like to know the following:
1) Where did humanity came from? How? And why?
2) Where did the gods came from, how did they came to be?
3) What happened with Zaithan’s corpse? Did it corrupted anything where it fell? Does it have anything of interest inside? Is any of his magic salvageable?
4) What’s the connection between the dream and the mists?
5) Does the nightmare court have any connection with Mordremoth?
6) Where are the gods and what are they doing? What keeps them so busy?
List these please. I would like to know exactly what you are having issues with.
I agree that the feel of this game is different from the feel of the other game. That there is a lot of stuff added to this game to give it a much more broad appeal compared to GW1. But I whole heartedly disagree that the way in which they have “extended” the lore by adding half-truths and fables is childish at all. It actually makes it so that players have to really think about things and delve a little further to get the full truth behind something.
And I agree with that. But what do you want me to list??
Hmm, yeah I used to think it felt bigger, but now I don’t think so so much. I’ve noticed that the longer I play the game, the more I notice how the scale of the topography is tweaked. For instance, when walking around Lornar’s Pass, a mountain top in the distance seems like a formidable climb. But when I get to it, it’s a just a short platforming feat to get to the top. Things look immense, but they are actually scaled down much smaller. I would think a lot of games do this actually, but this one seems to “trick the eye” more than I’m used to. Perhaps it’s the awesome graphics, idk.
As for your last point, I would agree…with an important caveat. A lot of the content I have issue with that this game promotes comes with a very large leap of faith attached to it: that a lot of the key themes and ideas shown to us in GW1 were really just mythical beliefs or constructs of a skewed point of view.
The question you have to ask yourself is…was this the intention of the original game. If it was, I’m totally wrong in my line of thinking. If not, then we have a problem. Because then we get into an area of false convictions and artistic truths which I personally have issue with.
I’m not saying that GW1 didn’t happen. I’m just saying that characters in GW2 don’t remember it accurately. We as players know the truth about the things that happened. But the characters are not forced to know that.
On the other hand, GW1 didn’t have a very detailed lore. We didn’t really know how the gods came to be or if they were eternal. We just knew they can be replaced. We didn’t know much about the dragons. Or about the mists.
That fact gives the writers the liberty to fill the holes they way they see fit, even though those holes weren’t intended to be filled that way. Or even though we didn’t expect them to fill them that way.
I still don’t get what’s the problem with humanity having a false belief about the worth of a god that barely appears in game, except for two statues and a skill. In GW2 humanity thinks Kormir is much more than she really is. What’s wrong with that??
No, that’s not what I’m saying either. I read Timothy Zahn’s Thrawn series, they were very well done. Great addition to the Star Wars franchise. What’s the problem with those??
I’m not sure we are playing the same game. Are you all really saying that you detect no thematic, stylistic, or contextual differences between 1 and 2?? And I don’t mean subtle changes here and there, but such vast differences that the game doesn’t even feel like we’re on the same planet? Cuz if ya’ll don’t, as Inigo Montoya said, “Then we are at an impasse.”
Even without the style transmogrification, I don’t know how how anyone can play this game and not feel like they are back in junior high. It’s a children’s game.
I agree with two of your points:
1) GW2’s story line feels far less epic than GW1’s. And I’m just talking about prophecies. Even though I must admit that the world feels much larger in GW2.
2)The world feels too different. Geographicly mostly. Even though there are some points that remained the same. Too many mountains have risen in between. I know that those are needed zone boundaries, but they feel weird sometimes.
But about historian’s inaccuracy about the past events, you must agree that people can forget things in the GW universe and knowledge can get corrupted or lost without breaking the immersion.
As an example: if some char stated that Sohothin was stolen from the warbands, even if we know it wasn’t, it wouldn’t matter. He’s mistaken but he will take actions accordingly. And it’s not immersion breaking.
If the humans believe that Kormir is superduper cool and that she deserves their devotion, it’s ok. That’s what their parents tough them that’s their sincerely mistaken reality. So people in GW2 think that Kormir did great things. Let it be. We know that she was just some bossy sunspear that only did some organizing work. And that after a series of events the gods randomly chose her as the vessel for Abaddon’s power.
Oh, I nearly forgot, I want to know if my theory of Owl being imprisioned in the mists (Jormag is already taking troops into the mist) is correct, specially since in F&F they suddenly added an Owl Shaman in the reconstruction of Cragstead (a mostly wolf devoted stead so it surprised me to find an Owl shaman) talking about his hope of making it come back if he spreads its wisdom it got me thinking if it was a sign of things to come.
That sounds more like wistful thinking, to me. Owl wouldn’t be trapped in the Mists, however, but in Jormag’s belly. And it’s possible Owl is still inside Jormag, slowly being devoured over the years.
In GW1, a scarab had devoured some spirits 200 years prior to the game. We free them in GW1 during the quest Family Soul – so two standard spirit eaten by a magical and old scarab queen takes over two centuries to digest. A Spirit of the Wild? May take longer.
But I bet Owl would be corrupted after 150 years in Jormag’s gut.
I know it’s wishful thinking, but my theory is that Jormag spit it and imprisioned him rather than digest it. I think there are hints here and there for a possible return, and seeing the Owl Shaman in Cragstead talking about that got me thinking again about it. Pure speculation, of course, but I have this feeling we will see him returning, maybe even in the future see an Eliten Racial Owl form.
you can summon an owl already, be gratefull for that. Half of the human gods just grant prayers.
In Wrath of The Lich King, Blizzard added vehicle weapons. Much like rideable enviromental weapons. Half of this dungeon, including the final boss, you fight riding a dragon an using its skills.
The dragons were the good guys in wow at the beginning of their storyline, they were 5 families. But each family had their own problems.
Black dragons turned evil by the influence of an old god.
Blue dragons turned crazy and xenophobic due to black dragons’ deeds.
Bronze dragons were too busy trying to fix the time-space continum.
Green dragons went away to something similar to the dream and then forgot they were allies with the real world.
And red dragons were enslaved by the orcs when the orcs were pure evil.
But that’s not a story for this forum. Other time, other universe. The thing is, it’d be sooo cool to ride a dragon in a dungeon again.
There’s absolutely nothing to say Utopia is canon to lore. Moreso since elements of Utopia was re-used in the Tarnished Coast elements of Eye of the North.
I know, I put the wiki link.
The OP said that he didn’t care how vague the reference is.
So even if it’s not cannon (yet), it’s the only thing we have.
I idlely speculated maybe shatterer could be offspring from Glint.
The Shatterer, unlike other Branded, is hollow. Most Branded’s insides are crystallized and shimmering, however the Shatterer’s insides are transparent and electrical. Furthermore, the skin of living beings turn gray when Brandified, whereas the Shatterer’s “skin” is blackish, much like the twisted ground.
The Shatterer was, by all appearances, created from the land and air itself.
A part of personal story where you get to ride one of these against Kralkatorrik would be awesome… o.o
I once made an idle suggestion in some “how would you like the Elder Dragon fights to be” for the post-Zhaitan fights. My suggestion for Kralkatorrik was that he went through the Tomb of the Primeval Kings portal (which was right north of Glint’s lair) and invaded the Hall of Heroes; so we follow through to see a semi-corrupted HoH, where we go into an aerial battle over the pockets of Mists within the Rift, fighting Kralkatorrik while using Glint’s children as mounts using the mechanics of environmental weapons, improved.
It would indeed be awesome.
Something like the oculus in World of Warcraft?
It was a nice fight.
It’s a fantasy game!!! It’s not supposed to adhere to all the laws of physics and biology and whatever else. Why does everyone keep using real life scenarios as analogous evidence? That’s ludicrous.
Guild Wars is a make-believe world that we, as players, let ourselves be immersed in to participate in and experience that world. There is nothing in those first three games that leads us all to think what we were experiencing and seeing was all legendary hogwash. It’s fake for us as real people, but real for us as players…get it?
Just because another game comes along and makes the claim that all that first stuff was a bunch of malarky, doesn’t make it so.
Oh, but it does. Just because it is a fantasy game it doesn’t mean it’s forced to not adhere to any law of physics, biology or whatever else.
Objects fall, fire burns things, people eat, cities have sewers.
A real world explanation can fit in this world as any fantasy world explanation. That’s what makes fantasy so great. You can explain whatever you want with magic and myth but with common sense too.
Disregarding your remark about fantasy worlds not requiring internal logic and such, I’d be interested in seeing you mention an example of a case where GW2 lore overwrites something experienced in person in GW1.
Yeah, i’d like to ride and/or fly in some instanced part of the game eventually. They already have the technology to make us swim. That wouldn’t be too hard.
I agree that we shoudn’t have mounts nor the ability to fly in the open world though.
But since the zones are separated through portals, a flying zone (just one) would rock.
I went off topic, sorry.
Back to kralks, I payed him a visit today with my GW1 elementalist. I didn’t know he was there back in GW1. What a magnificent beast.
It’d be nice to see the state of all the metaevents in the zone you’re in. Just the 2 or 3 metaevents in the zone. The same way you can already see the nearest metaevent.
5. What happened to the various different undead? Hell Hound, Necrid Horsemen, Ghouls, Bone Dragons, Executioners
Wiped out when the first Orrian undead were taken care of.
This is probably the only one I don’t agree with. They may have been wiped out in Tyria, but they should still be crawling all over Orr. Orr, I am sure had horsemen, dogs, clerics, etc. Maybe the clerics and executioners could be now known as shamans/priests and abominations, but the horsemen and hell hounds should still be there.
One reasonably common theory is that the Vizier may have selectively grabbed what he thought would be the most powerful undead for his force – including the dragons, cavalry, and Orr’s standing army in general. This would also explain why Zhaitan’s army seems to have so little in the way of conventional soldiery (you also don’t see any archers in Zhaitan’s army but Khilbron’s was full of them, for instance).
Nice Explanation
I bet Zaithan was really angry with the Vizeir, haha
I’d just payed a visit to the organ and it’s still broken. When you hit a note, it plays for almost 2 seconds, and you cannot change the note being played until the previous one finishes its sound.
Should I put this in the bug subforum?
No, it is clearly an intended change. The way it worked in the beta isnt reflecting the game as it was at release. So whatever their reasons are, it isnt a bug but intended this way.
That raises a new question.
Why did A.Net change a perfectly working pipe organ that you could play like an actual organ to this version in which every key is forced to be played for like 2 seconds, preventing people to actually playing the organ?
Back in the beta I enjoyed listening to good players and I played some classic tunes in it to the delight of my audience. Now it is just a lame noise maker.
Sorry about the harsh words… I’m just too frustrated. I don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings.
I’d just payed a visit to the organ and it’s still broken. When you hit a note, it plays for almost 2 seconds, and you cannot change the note being played until the previous one finishes its sound.
The pipe organ worked properly on the beta.
After that, two bugs were introduced.
First, the global cooldown affected the pipe organ and forced the player to make loooong notes.
Secondly, the organ became unselectable while playing.
The second bug was fixed long ago, but I’m asking about the first one.
Are there any plans to make Evonhawke’s pipe organ properly playable again?
In the early betas, you could play Evonhawke’s organ at will, it was a really nice feature but some kind of global cooldown was added to the game that prevented a player from playing that organ properly.
I was finishing the flame&frost storyline the other day and went to the black citadel stockades where the flame legion charr are held.
What surprised me is that he wasn’t even concerned about the elder dragons he was saying there was a threat bigger than our “little dragons”.
I wonder if those are the words of a deluded fanatic or there is some inner tyrian magic about to be tapped by the burning flame legion.
None of them knew about the dragons, not even Abbadon :P they all left because of the war between abbadon and the others gods, they caused too much damage
The gods probably did know about the Elder Dragons, since the Forgotten, one of the ancient races that fought them before, were devoted servants of the 6 gods. I would think that they would relay information dealing with gigantic creatures that might try to devour them, because they might find them magically delicious.
I seriously doubt they never talked about the dragons with Glint, the forgotten, the mursaat, the seers, the dwarfs, or the jotun.
In the map posted, from Cantha to the west, there is an atoll the size of divinity’s reach. I’d like to go there eventually. I’d love to see a large quaggan city protected by the atoll walls.
