Guild Wars 2

Alright, this is the only fair way we can do this. In this scenario Kralkatorrik flies back up and makes a home out of the blood legion homelands.

Asura get Arah
Humans get the Far Shiverpeaks
Norn get the Blood Legion homelands (after killing Kralky)
Charr get the Maguuma Jungle (from Mordremoth obviously)
And Sylvari get Quora Sum

It’s only fair that if humans don’t get their homelands no one else will

IT’S NOT VERATA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I KILLED HIM 250 YEARS AGO!!!!!! QUIT TRYING TO MAKE ARENANET BRING HIM BACK!!!!!!

Each group could honestly have sections like this as well. Priory fits the exploration and finding of tomes, but I would be honestly surprised if the Vigil didn’t keep a library full of books on war strategy, and of course the Order of Whispers would keep logs of the actions of leaders, nobles, and anyone of any importance who can be manipulated. Over the course of history these books could give a load of insight.

Yeah, I was laughing when I finished the personal story again on another character and Logan was asked whether he would go back to his queen again, and he said not until the other dragons were dead. What happened though? Two months later he’s back at her side, lol.

Well, we have no idea what happens to an Elder Dragon after death. Some of theorized that the magic remains and is reborn into a new Elder Dragon during the next cycle. Some have theorized that since their body is like a giant magical sponge, that eventually magic just seeps back from them into the world. A theory I would like to pose is that instead of the magic seeping back from Zhaitan into the world, it instead seeps from him into his minions. Thus the noticeable growth of regular minions from normal human height to norn height, and the very recent change in Tequatl’s fighting style. This would mean that we need to wipe out his minions fast, because they’ll just continue absorbing his magikittenil one of them starts reaching the level of a Demi-Elder Dragon.

You know though, I’ve heard and believed the whole theory that she was just on the edge of the brand and survived, but I have returned to that place since then, and even though she would have been underneath a huge overhang, the entire zone beneath the overhang is branded. IDK, we could speculate that a growing brand consumed the location she had been, but I have enough doubts to wonder if there wasn’t something more going on there.

She actually has a forgotten amulet whose magic protected her from the effects of the branding. She doesn’t know where the amulet actually came from, just that she found it and liked it and decided to keep it.

I find a lot more than just the brand and Fireheart gloomy in Ascalon. I mean much of it can be verdant and beautiful (much like the Charr Homelands in EotN, which was obviously trying to create nostaliga for pre-searing ascalon), but you also have so many ghost filled zones which are dark and spooky, and you have the ever-looming ruins of the great wall casting a dark shadow on most all of the zones, then you have the war ravaged plains in the Fields of Ruin. Ascalon is one gigantic warzone and is/should continue to be one of the most gloomy zones in my opinion.

I was gonna say, in GW1 the good guys don’t have a real victory until the 4th to last mission. Every other small victory lead to a disaster in one way or another up until that point. And from then on they had to fight hard losing people along the way until they had succeeded, and even then it twists once more before the fully and truly win.

I think the part of Orr (I’m speaking Orr specifically because it’s story should be the darkest) that failed in the Personal Story is the fact that too many characters that died were from personal stories you never saw. It would have had more of an impact if, as a sylvari, I ran into a possibly even small or insignificant named sylvari from earlier on in my personal story who appears once more in orr and then she dies, than it does when I run into a human or two from someone else’s story. I think they are on the right trail with the “pyramid” idea (broad base of stories convening at one titanic moment) but somewhere along the line the actions of our characters in our past are almost completely lost. I mean minus the racial sympathy characters showing up, there wasn’t much in the way of “reunions”.

What you described right there is exactly what I had hoped the Durmand Priory was. And I had hoped that perhaps if you were a member of the priory you could go around grabbing books, tomes, finding carvings or journals around in dungeons, mini-dungeons, jumping puzzles, and just random hiding places within the game. Then you could add to this massive library with more books about the specific places you went, perhaps you even find a journal of one of the characters from THE GW1 ACCOUNT YOU LINKED TO THE GAME! I always thought this would add depth to the relatively weak Durmand Priory we find today.

Except humans weren’t in Tyria at the time of a previous awakening.

Here’s a thought, a weird one, but a thought nonetheless. What if the gods, in some way, agreed that Abaddon was right in gifting magic to the world, but decided that he was wrong in the way in which he introduced it to the world. Because of this they separated the bloodstones and enchanted them to slowly ebb the magic back into the world, instead of bursting forth like a busted dam (which seems to have been Abaddon’s approach). Abaddon’s method gave too many people too much power too fast, and they were unable to control their lust for power, which was emboldened by their new strength. The other method allows peoples and races to be introduced to a slowly increasing amount of power which gives time for growth and maturing along the way.

This does answer many questions, and this doesn’t destroy the importance of the bloodstones. The people of GW2 are still far behind the level of magic mentioned in stories of the past (magical slaughters bringing humanity to the brink of extinction), so the bloodstones themselves still seem to have some level of control over who can do what, just not as much power as they had originally, or in GW1. This could even partially explain why players could use multiple professions in the GW1 world, because of the slightly weakening effects of the bloodstones.

Yeah, except you would think the old Jotun myths or the dwarven tomes would mention a giant tree or living plants…

I guess what I am saying is the gods no longer have anything to offer. It has been known for a long time by humanity that magic (whether or not given by the gods) was coming from an artifact on the planet, not from the gods directly. There are only a few situations, such as the dervish, where this does not seem to be the case. And to add to that, the human gods have been extremely distant for the last 200ish years. There have been no godly blessings nor has there been any communication with the gods at all until just recently (the Cathedral of Silence). The human gods have nothing more to offer at all than just their creeds taught by the priests and priestesses.

The only race that has a set of religious figures that are still somewhat interactive are the norn. The Spirits of the Wild are said to have more of a one on one interaction with the race that they commune with, and this sets them apart from the human gods who, apart from some of their disciples, viewed humanity as more of a congregation than a group of individuals. So all I am getting at is, Owl has no less reason to be revered (especially for her actions, sacrificing herself for the good of the Norn) than the human gods who are equally as non-existent in their effects.

I understand that you have no qualm with the Owl spirit BTW. I am just using it as an example because you brought it up as a very good one.

It is not against you. There have been probably hundreds of threads pointing out that theory, and over and over again it has been shot down as a reality because of many valid points which I do not wish to repeat, so as to stay on the topic that we are a part of. I know the search engine may suck, but if you just go through the topics in this forum I am sure you will find one within the first 10 pages of forum threads.

^I would very much love to enter the mists and learn more about the spirits of the wild. There is sooooooooooo much more that ArenaNet could be doing with the mists than just the fractals, PvP, and WvW. I want my Realm of Torment, Hall of Heroes, Underworld, Fissure of Woe, and while we’re at it why not find the Spirits of the Wild, the Great Forge, The Sky above the Sky, the Blessed Realm, and so on and so forth.

Yes, please Mistro, do not hijack this page to push a topic that has been done to death over and over again.

Well, it seems the physical needs of religion somewhat slip away the more civilized groups of people become. I personally think that this is because of the Heirarchy of Needs. In a more civilized land, the notion of depending on a diety for your yearly harvest is not really a necessary thing. And I want to note that I am not calling religious people uncivilized or savage, I myself am a believer, I am just looking at how history seems to unravel these sorts of situations. Once you get past the physical needs of survival (security, food, water, shelter, etc..) you move on to the point of needs that is along the lines of the afterlife, the meaning of life, philosophy and such. These types of questions throw religion in a different light.

In GW2 we are at a bit more of a civilized era. The kingdoms are more settled, and while there is still war and trouble, people have made a somewhat philosophical shift from looking at direct needs to looking towards indirect needs. This is why, IMO, things like the teachings of a valiant Spirit of the Wild can remain useful to the norn even til today.

But that man stole a whole platinum from me, which was a lot back then. I almost wanted to just kill him and take it back :P

Alright I guess I have a few things to talk about here.

First thing I want to point out is that I have not heard anything about the wall appearing out of nowhere. From the history I read the tengu all gathered together in one spot (Sanctum Cay) after the Canthan tengu arrived with Zhaitan’s Tsunami right on their tail. After all the tengu of Tyria joined them they secluded themselves by building the wall. If there is any dialogue in game to prove me wrong here please provide it, though.

As to your questions.

1) I have not seen any dialogue in game about the Sky above the Sky recently though, but I have also not seen any diaogue in game that would call for inclusion of it either. I’ve seen dialogue between people trading, I’ve read about their distrust of the other races, I’ve read about their basic cultural breakdown, but I haven’t found any reason to ask about their religion. So this is neither a point for or against your theory.

2) I think I kind of answered this with my first paragraph.

3) Currently there is no sign of tengu as being hostile to Krytans, but there was hostility in the great past that was GW1. Plenty of hostility, when including the hostility between tengu and Canthans, for them to build a wall against humanity. I think the current closed door standard is more of a point of not knowing these other races well enough to trust them either, having such a bad history with humanity.

4) No. There was nothing about Sanctum Cay which had anything to do with the White Mantle. A few Krytan graveyards, a harbor, nothing else really. I do have to point out that there was a temple to the Mursaat located in the Riverside Province, which would be probably a few miles from the island. I guess this could be a point in your favor, but so far I find very little to point towards this theory.

On a side note, My personal opinion on those structure built every few feet, is that they are merely a throw back to a canthan style of architecture. They look very much like the roofing style of many canthan buildings.

I wouldn’t think we’ll find much of a Great City of the norn, just based on the way in which they live. I think Hoelbrak itself is a major cultural shift in the lifestyles of the Norn. This doesn’t mean that we won’t learn more about the norn as we move northwards, perhaps find the sites of ancient battles, stone carved tablets with the legends of their ancestors, etc…

Humans fight a unified group of enemies in the bandits and centaurs, plus within the ministry there are people getting their troops killed to make the queen look incompetent. Not only that but many of their villages are being attacked by groups of Risen and krait. It is not a perfect analogy, but when it comes to human wars vs charr wars, the charr are more unified with more enemies and the humans are less unified with less enemies, but the biggest portion of the enemies themselves are allied (which is not the case in the charr wars).

From my reading of the book I didn’t think he directly flew over the city. He was still at a distance when Jennah and Anise looked into his mind, and branded came from all the way back from the lines of the charr siege weaponry. I think the bolt that blasted the wall was most likely a stray.

There is a major difference between humans and flame legion. Humans only ever tried to kill the charr. The charr may hate that, but it is acceptable to them, seeing as charr were constantly trying to kill them as well. Whereas, the flame legion tried to control the rest of the charr. This is apparently an unforgivable act among the charr by the look of it.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I also kind of miss doing quests that span multiple zones. It allowed for better story telling to not have every quest be tied to one particularly zone.

Oh yeah, although I did find some of them rather annoying. Such as one particular one where you are helping the Tengu within the Roost in Kaineng keep their area from being taken away from them. You have to talk to like 10 ministry officials throughout the city before finally finding and having to physically bribe the person to get them to back off. Man, I have to say if there was any one thing that drove home the worthlessness and corruption within the Celestial Ministry, it was that specific quest.

Bellyboomer.3048:

Gabby.3205:

I would probably worship the Spirits of the Wild. Their teachings make sense, some of them died/disappeared while trying to protect their followers and the ones that lived are present enough in the material world to make me think that they will always be there for their people. I would revere the memory of the Owl.

Yet, your gods are not immortal. Owl for example will never be there to support you in your struggle, you can only remember his teachings. What would you do if all the spirits were dead? (Which reminds me, what’s the origin of the spirits? Could they be reborn?)
There are magical beings in this world who can aid you and grant you power, wouldn’t it be a waste to worship owl, who is now powerless?

Well it does seem that the worship of Owl Spirit has kind of disappeared, if you look at the state of her lodge in Snowden Drifts. But that said, just because the Owl Spirit is dead does not mean her teachings are pointless.

Bellyboomer.3048:

Aaron Ansari.1604:

You forgot about the Sun, Beetle!

I always liked the idea of a sun god. If you were a caveman on earth, wouldn’t it make more sense to worship the large source of energy and life in the sky as a god, rather than an invisible god?
But in Tyria there are other noticable sources of life and magic, so the sun is only one of many options. (btw, what’s the origin of the Tyrian sun?)

Many people worshiped the sun, moon, stars, rivers, mountains, any and everything that has a large impact on their lives. This can be seen through a multitude of religions around the world IRL. The belief in a single omnipotent/omniscient god is a more recent development.

Well, nothing’s to say that the Order of Whispers didn’t fail, much like a certain undead lich that they never were able to re-imprison (which was their first calling). I too doubt many margonites will be around either, although we cannot definitively say that ArenaNet couldn’t make them come back in some way. I personally would be disappointed if we couldn’t go back into the Mists and fight Demons again, even if they are in another realm or something because they were pushed out.

One correction, Kormir is never the goddess of water. I believe her titles are Spirit, Truth, and Knowledge. From what we can tell Lyssa claimed the title of Water, which seems strange to me because in GW1 she seemed unaffiliated with any element and was instead affiliated with chaos magic (which still seems to be the case).

There’s a lot of confusion about humanity’s origins, and if they ever go to the point of explaining them I’m sure there will be a decent amount of “retcon through false information”, much as how they’ve explained the existence of the Elder Dragons in a world that was believed to have been created by the gods.

Another possible explanation about the raising of those who are already dead could be that Adlebern raised them afterwards. IMO, it makes sense that after the initial blast he was able to go into the catacombs and raise any that he felt would be useful in the continued war against the charr. Some of his generals being those that he brought back, such as Vassar and Ralena who appear to have already been dead prior to the Foefire.

Yeah, I’m told the search function doesn’t work very well. I never really end up using it myself though.

I think we had a topic about this just a few days ago. It appears to be just a old piece of Jotun history. I’d assume it’s more likely a marker or a tablet perhaps with some of their astronomical charts on it. They were big into astronomy at the time. The carvings are very similar to structures that are verified by Durmand priory folks to be from long past Jotun civilizations.

Well, lorewise the boxed zones aren’t necessarily considered really there. There’s multiple reasons to believe that many of them are just mechanics. Also, just because the undeveloped map areas show there being brand on the other side of it doesn’t mean that it is really the case. It is quite possible that the glen is indeed outside of the brand and the map just has not been clarified. But as I stated as well, it is equally possible that the brand has attempted to expand, and the glen is keeping that from occurring.

But you have to remember potential playable races as well. Largos have the reasons for a vendetta against Bubbles. Kodan have reasons for a hatred of Jormag, and Tengu are already fighting against Primordus within the walls of the Dominion of Winds itself (according to dialogue).

1) Parts of it are grassland. Much of it is still desert territory, but the lands around the Elon have come to life because of the water. I would consider it a lot like the Nile River Valley. Life can flourish in that band near the water, but travel miles in either direction and you have desolation.
2) Yes, near the southern regions is it quite possible
3) Maybe, maybe not
4) Probably a very good population there yes
5) Huh? Firstly, the chaos rift has most likely been either sealed off or cleansed. Cleansing it was the purpose of us entering it in the first place, and many people succeeded. It is a possibility, but I honestly think they could do more interesting things there than just have another area like Godslost Swamp or Reaper’s Vale.
6) I hope a lot of those creatures are still around. I got excited when I saw there was a boss fight against a Hydra Queen, then I learned it was just Taida Covington and I was vastly disappointed. Don’t forget though, many of these creatures also have the chance of having a branded variety of them As for the Abaddon’s minions, I find that unlikely, unless we learn that Kormir is still having trouble even after she had us almost literally vanquish all of her enemies within the Domain of Anguish.

I don’t honestly see it as any less total war than Ascalon with Ogre Wars, Separatists, Renegades, Ghosts, Branded, Flame Legion, and Dredge.

But because of the spread out nature of the ascalonian ghosts there seems to be only two options.

Either…

A. The Foefire effected humans differently than charr, and the effect on humans was far more widespread.

Or…

B. The ascalonian ghosts we see spread throughout Ascalon are just troops that Adlebern is sending to recapture old towns and fortifications.

I prefer the idea of the last one, just because all of the articles and tales that I have read seem to point towards Ascalon City being the last thing, other than Ebonhawke, remaining in human hands before being besieged. Nothing says it outright, but it points towards claiming Ascalon City being the major pinnacle in the Flame Legion Imperator claiming the title of Kahn Ur. Plus, basic war strategy tells me that having all those random humans in those other locations while besieging the city could be a bad call.

Divinity’s Reach is quite possibly my favorite city, definitely beats out any of the others in my personal opinion. That said, I wouldn’t mind the pavilion being destroyed and replaces with a proper CANTHAN district.

Sadly that does those of use who sadly know no german very little good.

Valid point….

Dustfinger.9510:

Humanity is currently receiving help with their civil problems just like the charr are.

I have to point out, Humanity is receiving help from random groups of adventurers going around and doing good. Charr required the help of one of the world’s largest military organizations in order to take down their major rival. There is a difference.

Or possibly, the Foefire blast had an effect on the ghosts remaining within the Catacombs and bound them to Adlebern’s will as well.

It seems that the way the secluded glen looks is most likely the game designers forcing it into the landscape so it is a part of what is available within the game. But as Drax said, in the book it is quite clear that she was buried outside of the effects of the brand. Whether or not the brand has attempted to expand and swallow it (seeing as it is explained again and again that the brand is trying to expand) is an unknown. But at the time of her death, it was not branded.

There is always the opportunity for the story to return.

Not everybody despises the Living Story, but I can understand some of the complaints. I still personally love doing the invasions. It’s just absolutely fun for me, even if I can’t quite understand how she has such a massive army and no one knows about it.

The point on the asura gate wasn’t towards you, but just a general comment which is why I had it separately.

Point is. The Legions walked away because they couldn’t do it. Their losses there were too heavy. Everytime they created new siege technology the humans somehow always outsmarted them and made sure that new technology never got where it needed it be in order to be effective. 250 years of siege is a long span of failure for the charr. Even if the last 100 have just been Iron Legion testing grounds, that was roughly 150 years of charr failure to take what they saw as rightfully theirs.

And I do notice that you didn’t bring into light the other stuff I mentioned. How the High Legions couldn’t take out the Flame Legion alone without the help of the Pact. That right there, the charr actually asking for help (Since it was Rytlock that told the Pact about the Flame Legion’s actions) that proves their dire situation. No less dire that the situation humanity is in. At least humanity took care of it’s own problem without relying on others to mop up the mess.

Drakkon.4782:

Ok, so we’re going ot point to Ebonhawke as an example of Charr inefficiency? Ok, we’ll bite into your lacklorester bait. The Charr didn’t destroy Ebonhawke with their overwhelming might because they didn’t see the value in genocide. They wanted the land and the people, not just the land. Ebonhawke’s resolve refused to bow to Charr domination, and the Charr lacked the political will to destroy them utterly, despite having more than enough forces deployed in the area to crush the petty kingdom to rubble. That’s why Jennah stepped in an negotiated the cease fire, and then the peace treaty. Both sides acknowledge that neither would have benefited greatly from a prolonged conflict, and even in winning, they would have had less of a victory than they do with the peace treaty, where they can move past the fighting that has marked their entire existence and begin fighting their common enemies together.

Try playing the game and experiencing the content before you open up fail arguments like this. This was explained in the game while you’re doing the hearts in Ebonhawke itself. There is no reason why you don’t know this unless you haven’t been there. Every NPC with a “[F] Talk” option tells you how much they hate the war and how tired they are of the fighting (except the quest NPCs, but they’re not supposed to). They express hope that the two sides can work together as hard as they fought one another. But one thing that the Charr always say is that they know they have the military might to destroy Ebonhawke. There’s just something about how passionately the humans fight that the Charr respect and they don’t want to crush that spirit because it could be useful in their own fights. It’s just those kitten humans resist being brought under the banners of the Legions. Sad.

Really? Because in my experience in GW1 and GW2 they made multiple attempts at genocide. Not even just killing the humans that took over their homelands but also killing the humans in their own homelands to make sure the threat never returned. Perhaps you should read up more on your own lore. The Charr would have squashed Ebonhawke like a bug and exterminated all the humans if they had a chance, but they couldn’t. They never had interest in ruling over humans.

BTW: The asura gate isn’t the only way that Ebonhawke has survived. According to Destiny’s Edge the current asura gate wasn’t built until the events at the end of the book, which is 5 years before the game starts. There was a previous gate that went disused, and somehow they were able to get caravans of supplies through the mountains an into the city without too much charr interruptions.

I’d personally come to the conclusion that the riven earth falls is located in the unused space between Rata Sum and The Grove, based on the fact that Rata Sum now is located on the river closer to where Oola’s lab and Arachni’s Haunt was located, rather than where Rata Sum ruins was in GW1.

I’d say, personally, that they are shooting themselves in the foot if they claim that there will not be any futuristic fractals. It is already set up to be a possibility with the lore of the mists. Still, I digress.

The heads found in Wyckmire Swamp remind me a lot of the heads found throughout the Ring of Fire island chain. Mainly because the Wyckmire Swamp heads have their mouths open. In the case of the Ring of Fire heads, lava was flowing out. I am also very interested in the possibility of Colossi having been around on Tyria, especially since we can find skeletons of Giganticus Lupicus throughout Tyria, but no skeletons of these Colossi (based on the skulls attached to the skeletons we can find).

@ Bellyboomer: It is Mursaat Thrive Near, not Strive Near.

I do not recall anyone saying it cannot be inclusive of future events. The Mists are connected to all times. Past, Present, and Future, through the Rift (or the Rift is a piece of the Mists that connects to all places and times, one or the other). Either way, I believe it is just as likely that they could be future events. But if you have the link that says they cannot be future events I would be intrigued to see it, because I believe they would be writing themselves out of a potentially interesting story.

What I am saying is. Personally I restarted playing the game not long ago for nostalgia sake on a new character. I was just blasting through doing missions (after having leveled in Pre-Searing) and with just the missions the world was very, very shallow when compared to the world with included quests. Yes we get a bit of information, but it is nowhere near fleshed out enough just missions alone.