Guild Wars 2

Drakkon.4782:

And the Human military, the Seraphs, can barely handle the Centaurs without aid. The Charr Legions are more than a match for them, individually, or together. There may be rivalries between the Legions, but when they decide to do something, they do it. Read the thread and see what we’ve already discussed and discounted before you bring up old arguments that go nowhere.

And the Charr Legions couldn’t take out a simple human fortification in the south of their kingdom :P

What we see in the story is in the beginning the centaurs having the upper hand and eventually the seraph pushing the centaurs back to the very edge. And by your own logic I will have to say that all 3 charr legions couldn’t take care of their own problem (Flame Legion) without help from the Pact. So charr can be just as big of wimps when it comes to this kind of stuff.

The point I was getting at was the lore in GW1 was not available though the missions/PS, it was available out in the open world. In GW1’s instance it was through the walls and walls of text in quests, GW2’s alternative is Renown Hearts, Ambient Dialogue, Dungeons, and Dynamic Event/DE Dialogue. I’m not saying GW2’s perfect, but I am saying it’s not much different from GW1 in the way in which it shows it’s lore.

The thing is, the missions in the game didn’t give squat really for lore. I mean if you literally just ran from mission to mission you could go the whole time not really knowing what the gods were and if they were real or fake (speaking of the Prophecies missions). The white mantle were ruling Kryta, but not sure why or how. Most of the big answers and explanations came from walls upon walls of quest text and dialogue within these quests. GW2 is no different.

Same with the individuals who stayed inside of the Lion’s Arch lighthouse and talked about it as if it still existed after the events of Lost Shores.

Xythian.4167:

Gandarel.5091:

dunnberry.2964:

The charr would tell the gods whatever they want, including a sword in the throat, and the Asura simply would not care what the gods had to say

Yeah ofc, talking about the charrs who got crushed by humans after just a word from Balthtazar to “conquer”? The charrs that were manipulated by a human god without who humans would still rule Ascalon? :P

Ofc a sword would be so efficient against gods that can shape continents within seconds.

About the asura, I don’t think the gods would negotiate with them, just wipe them off Tyria in a blink of an eye if needed.

The charr killed the titans. The gods arent all-powerful, just extremly powerful entities with could not withstand a full legion assault

Humans killed the titans, watch your facts

I don’t think that the dragons have most of the magic. I mean, supposedly they were leaking magic for 250ish years after the events of GW1 and through that timeperiod the PC’s have learned skills that put GW1 skills to shame (commenting on dialogue in the EotN. I would say that even with the dragons around magic is most likely at least as strong as it was in GW1 if not still stronger. They do not seem to be magical vacuums, they instead seem to have to consume items imbued with magic, or, if Oola is correct, corrupting creatures might also be a means of consuming magic.

Yeah, Nero this is actually the theory that I have been preferring in my mind. Jennah is indeed real, but she changed her physical appearance at a young age and started creating an illusion as her real self. In my mind, Anise is the real queen, and Jennah is an illusion paraded in front of the people. So Konig, I am not trying to say there is no queen. But think, as a young girl she would go through a vast amount of physical changes, and she could have used this as an opportunity to change name and create a false background for this Anise character and parade a differently developing version of herself as the Illusional Queen. I’m sorry, I wasn’t good at explaining this in my last post. And Konig, I agree that this is an absurd idea, but it’s fun nonetheless, and I will not apologize for participating in a conspiracy theory

Yeah, I want to say you are prolly thinking about the dream vision of Orr. The reason I say that is because I thought it too. In my mind, it sounded like the king was saying Orr was corrupted by something other than the dragon. This to me meant that perhaps the Vizier’s magic was still corrupting the land, or something else darker and more evil that we do not know about. As it turns out the dragon just corrupted a pool of water that corrupted the rest of Orr, and it wasn’t him itself that was the source of the corruption, but the water. I was a little disappointed there.

I believe that is Jotun architecture, but I am not certain. Some of their buildings have similar carvings in it which I personally attribute to their interest in astronomy.

Yes. Unless they add some sort of lore behind the weapons, or something of the sort, there’s no conclusion to be made. The vision crystal used in the rite of ascension was used to bring the god’s gaze onto you. We don’t even know if this is possible anymore because of their total dismissal from Tyria, plus being gazed on by the gods doesn’t necessarily mean that it would be imbued by some magical power. I always took it as a situation where as you fought the vision crystal had the gods watch you, and should you succeed, you would be welcomed to the Hall of Heroes and given the gift of true sight.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Narcemus.1348:

But if Anise is the queen, and “Jennah” is the illusion, then Anise being away from Jennah isn’t an issue, unless Jennah is also somewhere doing something.

There are points where they’re separate and we’re told they’re doing other things. We see Jennah without Anise just as well as Anise without Jennah.

But still, why would Anise talk to an illusions when she is all alone with said illusion.

Jennah without Anise and Anise without Jennah aren’t a problem. Because if Anise can make a separate illusion of Jennah, then who is to say that she cannot just make herself look like Jennah. As to the talking to each other situation, how can you expect her mental state to be perfect after holding together a lie for so many years. I mean from a young age she was probably taught how to create the Jennah illusion, and from then on she had a friend wherever she wanted her. Being unstable enough to “talk to yourself” every once and a while isn’t the same as being nutso wacko crazy.

Not all of us hate the game as vehemently as you Obsidian ;D

Yeah, IMO, Gavin had lots of room to be an extremely respectably developed character if given the chance. No, instead I saw my dagger planted in my friend’s heart…

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Counter argument to Jennah is an illusion – a theory which is as asinine as Grenth=Menzies (both being related to darkness and destruction; one a half-god, the other implied to be one; etc.) which I came up for laughs a long while back. Edge of Destiny, Jennah and Anise are alone together, and they’re having a conversation. Only counter-argument is that Anise is mentally unstable, in which I doubt she’d be able to maintain such an elaborate act.

robinoz.3958:

How much do we know about Anise? I’ve played through all 3 of the human story lines, and I can’t remember ever seeing Anise and Jennah apart.

End of Street Rat Apothecary step; throughout the Trial of Julias Zammon during Noble storyline (as well as going with Anise’s plan, and choosing who’s plan to go with); Unknown Parents story steps that involve Anise – which is about 3 of them. Honestly speaking, the ONLY time yo usee Anise and Jennah together in the human storyline is the lvl 20-30 chapter that’s shared between all humans.

Anise is separate from Jennah a lot.

But if Anise is the queen, and “Jennah” is the illusion, then Anise being away from Jennah isn’t an issue, unless Jennah is also somewhere doing something. From the player’s perspective it can be said that this theory is sound. Until we see a moment where Queen Jennah is somewhere doing something while Anise is doing something and they are separated by a great distance at the same time… My personal opinion is that on top of this the Shining Blade has assassinated Smoldur and Malice in order to create a situation for the Treaty. Now their scouts parade around will masterful illusions of the leaders of the charr legions Only Bangar knows the truth!

Obsidian.1328:

jheryn.8390:

True creativity in this case is not replacing or being constrained by known history, but using it and making it more rich.

That’s true, that is being more purely “creative.” But that’s certainly not the only thing to consider when expanding on an established fictional history. A good story, when borrowing heavily from another, should try as hard as it can to stay true to the spirit of the first. Otherwise the two seem incongruent and foreign to each other…which is exactly what we have here.

Whatever the reason for the massive disconnect(personally I think it was just plain old greed), the two games don’t really sync with each other right. Sure, technically most of it works and fits together, but realistically that’s not really the case. It’s like ANet did a game version of “Extreme Makeover” or something…bleh.

However, one simple question you can ask yourself it this:

Does this game really feel like Guild Wars 1 Tyria?

To me, it might as well be an entirely different game with it’s own separate lore. Everyone needs to judge that for themselves… but …the sheer amount of dissatisfaction attributed to this topic has to say something. There is such a thing as a consensual truth, however imperfect that may be.

The problem is, the dissatisfaction in your case comes from the game in general, from day one. The dissatisfaction found throughout most of this topic, minus the OP, is found pointed in the general direction of the Living Story.

I have to agree with Konig. Nothing good comes from having free reign everywhere. Eventually, to get anything strong, or rich, or excellent you have to give yourself boundaries. In this instance they were given lore, and IMO they have done a great job of including new lore to the old lore and giving the world a little more depth and richness from the standpoint of the Personal Story and IMO the early parts of the Living Story. I originally liked what the Living Story was building off of, with tying up loose ends of the story, but things are definitely on a strange track. I’m teetering on the fence so far with it, but I can say one thing for certain. If there is one thing ArenaNet is struggling with, it isn’t looking back and filling in the past, it is looking forwards and seeing what Tyria’s future is like.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Truth be told, SHE never claims to have seen the Eternal Alchemy. Vorpp says she does. And with all the other subjective “truths” we’re told throughout the game, can we believe Vorpp is right? He may think he is, doesn’t make it so.

When she woke up in the short story, all she claimed to have seen is the fate and purpose of the sylvari. Of course, if she didn’t know there were other sylvari out there, then she wouldn’t be lying, just wrong. And remember that Malyck’s existence was a tightly kept secret.

Not to mention Malyck’s tree’s existence was unknown to really anyone until after this story was written, from what we can tell.

I liked them for a short moment, sadly I took the route of the White Stag. I did like the portrayal of the noble nightmare courtier, Gavin, but there really isn’t much there for development (especially since he doesn’t stick around in future story). Still, I think there could have been something there if we didn’t have to kill him, but no nightmare corruption cannot be removed so GUT EM!

Or portrayed the sky as a weight coming downwards. Seeing how holding up the sky is really an unnecessary job from our understanding but maybe not from theirs.

^All I know is, I just hope to see it someday (in the far flung future).

Another thought on your story Konig. Ceara did not die, and really is Scarlet. We end up killing Scarlet somehow through the Super Adventure Box. Players rejoice (either because they defeated a major threat, or they thought she was terrible and needed to die). Halloween comes around, the signs of the Mad King’s Return appear once more, only this year, instead of the Mad King popping out of the fountain in the middle of LA, we have Scarlet appearing, being the only sylvari that has a spirit found within game (most likely having to do with her astral-projection experience). Over the last month she took over the Mad Realm from Mad King Thorn, and is now looking to invade from the Mists. Biggest ArenaNet Troll against the players ever, lol.

I really want to see Banes again now…..

Part of me always wondered if GW2’s first April Fool’s would have been Terminator 3 in GW1 while Terminator 4 in GW2, thus finishing out the references, but thus it never happened. BTW, I was joking and didn’t expect anyone to really take those ideas.

I think Konig would agree, it is much better to look at the written word we have in dialogue, articles, and such and base your own judgements on those, rather than taking any one individual at their straight up word. Not that I noticed any mistakes in his writing, but the lore forum grows by people critiquing each other’s assumptions.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

(Author’s note: this started as a joke in an IM chat with Thalador. Originally meant to just be the joke about Faolain and Caudecus, but turned into this.)

You know there’s a chance that as long as this remains on here, it will become the plot line of GW2…

^That is actually a very good illustration

Perhaps the chains themselves were only temporary, and the real plan was to entomb him. The scaffolding was in order to start construction…

And should the PC’s not have intervened the colossus would have been entombed up until, perhaps, the present time! I think we need to go to the Canthan continent and search for a colossus tomb!

No, I understand that. I’m just saying that the idea that your new sylvari character is the soul of your old GW1 character is a cool idea, but there’s no way that you can RP like that. I mean there’s no way the character would know.

I was looking for a dev’s perspective honestly. Plus my biggest concern is when the stats I prefer aren’t available from our current list of craft-able stats, but are only available from dropped weapons. I understand that Final Rest is carrion and is fine, but what about other items with soldier, rabid, giver, cavalier, shaman, magi, or traveler’s stats? Obviously we cannot currently craft with these current stats, so are we just gonna be limited to 8 types of stats if we wanna be the “best of the best?”

It would seem very strange if after such an invasion there would be a random blurb like this. I mean not even her showing up, but something to the side where we’re trying to learn more about her or something.

Moto didn’t seemed interested in anyone’s offers.

Hey,

I was just curious if we have any idea how ArenaNet is going to look at the already existing named weapons in games when compared to Ascended weapons. I mean, I personally use Final Rest on my necromancer because a friend found it and offered it to me and I fell in love with it. These types of item drops in game are rare and such, so I’m curious if they are just going to be put in the useless bin because of their non-ascended status, or if they will be made ascended, or if we will have a way to “ascend” them. I would prefer not to have to buy fine transmutation stones if I didn’t have to…

Drakkon.4782:

Narcemus.1348:

I have to ask you Drakkon.

Your question is just patently ridiculous. Not even close to what we’re discussing.

And yes, the US would declare victory, just like GW did for Afghanistan. Prematurely, and without a lot of credibility, but it would happen. I’m not proud of my government, but admitting politicians are idiots isn’t exactly treason, yet. It might become “Revealing State Secrets” soon, though.

Bah I give up. I can’t keep up with this freakin thread. It’d take me days to get caught up to whatever the heck you guys are talking about now…

The Grove would be a boring dungeon…

I have to ask you Drakkon. If the United States went to all out war with, erm, well, South Africa, IDK. And South Africa Nuked itself into oblivion does the US hold claim to it? Really?

Then 200 years later, the United States and Africa creates a treaty to fight alien invaders and South Africa rises from the ocean will the US really destroy the treaty in order to get a little more land? I just want you to remember that the Charr Legions currently own everything east of the Shiverpeaks, including land east of the Blazeridge Mountains (speaking from what we see in lore, not in game obviously).

Plus, I understand that you think that the charr hold claim because they conquered something that they never worked for, but I don’t understand why you think humanity holds no claim. Now notice here that I am saying humanity not Kryta. Humanity’s homeland on Tyria (continent) IS Orr. They didn’t fight other races to conquer it or anything, it is where they grew up on this continent, this is more than the charr can say since they did steal Ascalon from another race (unnamed). So tell me how humanity, racewise, holds no claim to the land where they were born, while charr were rightful in taking back their homeland?

The only way that I can think of charr holding rightful claim to both Orr and Ascalon is for the rule of law to be who holds the bigger guns. In this case we should just shred the treaty and start kicking and screaming about Ascalon all over again, because on that law, humanity held the right or Ascalon when they kicked the charr tails into retreat..

I’d say the primitive elemental magic used before the bloodstone was tapped into probably received a large boost afterwards. It would be similar to how Ritualistic magic never required bloodstone magic, but once it was released they used the magic to boost what they could do. As to Nola, she did some pretty intense necromancy during one of the books as well.

“Just as Koro foretold, the charr returned, furious at having been tricked into fighting an army that was never there. But the precious time she bought us had not been squandered. We stood ready for them. Unexpectedly, mad with grief, Nola raised an army of undead from beneath the earth, an army consisting of the town’s previous occupants. Her forces created a wall against which the rushing waves of charr broke. Ignoring Keiran’s order to fall back, she marched beyond our front lines. The lieutenant vaulted the barricade, attempting to reach her before the charr could. To everyone’s surprise, he hit her with his fist and knocked her out. Then, he picked her up and rushed her unconscious form back behind our defensive position.”

Sorry, always a fan of the necromancers…

I don’t see why people care what other players do with their characters. I treat them as if I was walking around IRL seeing what they are using. I give them a sidward glance, think for a moment “what were they thinking?”, and then move on with my life. Only thing I honestly care about is that I can make my character look good with what we have. First thing I always do is look at the weapons available, determine if they fit my character, and move on, lol.

I am going to go out on a limb and say that Scarlet is not the personal nemesis.

I say this because of her level of threat. The threat of Scarlet is growing to extremes, almost equaling the threat of the Elder Dragons when it comes to the established races. Because of the level of threat imposed upon her, it seems almost necessary for her to be defeated/killed. For her to be left alive would be like putting a chain on Zhaitan and swatting his nose with a rolled up newspaper.

I think the Nemesis is going to be someone completely different, remembering that this is entirely opinion. Personal Nemesis are usually someone of around the same level of power as the individual and they have ways of creating problems that the PC may have to struggle with, but in the end they lose, fall back, and start over. The level of threat they create are almost never as great as to take out a kingdom, or in this case almost 3 kingdoms at once. They are more of an annoyance that are related to the big threat (My mind jumps to Team Rocket).

^You have 2 weeks to comply before your character is deleted. Have a nice day!

It would be cool, but sadly it could just as easily be untrue. Plus there’s no way to RP it because no Sylvari seems to remember past life or anything of that sort.

Anybody wondering if, with next month being Super Adventure Box, Scarlet will make an attempt at another piece of technology?

My Tombstone quote…

“The man who killed the possibility of Guild Wars Beyond content after Guild Wars 2’s release.”

Sad day indeed. Sadly I would be one of those reasons. I know I was on such a GW2 high that I barely took time for GW1 for a while…

Whatever her plan, she may have left the Maguuma out of it so far, but the chain of attacks definitely seems to be leading to one specific location. Hoelbrak/Black Citadel-Lion’s Arch-Divinity’s Reach-Maguuma Jungle?

Reading these events still aren’t the same as being there. I believe it was around the time of the release of GW2 that they stated that the GW1 group was going to be so small that it was no longer adequate to finish out the storyline of Beyond. It was a sad day, and the final nail in the coffin to me was when they fully automated the game updates.

No one says Waypoints are connected to the Inquest directly…

Why do you think the pact is a bunch of idiots? You know very well that selling the land to the highest bidder would be the dumbest political situation ever. It could lead to bloodshed and war, plus major factions pulling their support away from the organization. And while the Pact may be able to use the money, I highly doubt they could take losing the manpower and technology.

As to Charr just trudging their war machines over to Orr and claiming it, I think it equally as unlikely. They seem to be made for a very specific land type. Once they are brought through the Crystal Desert or Shiverpeak mountains they will be near worthless, as is seen in certain missions within Orr.

The real question you should ask is how that profession came around in a race. I mean it seems to me that the 4 classes of magic which come from the 4 Bloodstones kind of dictate what you can do with magic. It is theorized that the mindset of the individual has an effect on the type of magic that they wield, but in general there is no origins given in the game except for humans for the most part. In the game there are scriptures of the gods that show how certain gods took on certain people as their students and taught them magic. Examples can be seen in these websites:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Grenth
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dwayna
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lyssa

Balthazar’s scripture is mostly about bringing courage to soldiers, and Melandru’s is about binding a savage band of humans to the land because of their mistreatment of it. This still leaves out the possible origins of Elementalism, as well as the origins of professions within near any other race. We see mesmers, monks, elementalists, and necromancers within the ranks of Charr from the very beginning, so how they learned these skills are beyond my current knowledge.

I do want to say that there is some mention of Elementalism being one of the earliest forms of magic used, aside from Ritualism which was used before magic was even released. I believe it was Thruln the Lost’s mention of primitive use of it, but I am not sure. Sorry I couldn’t be of much more help.

Erm, have you set a living tree on fire? Or thrown wet wood on a fire? Ain’t easy.

As for the rest of this topic, I’ll bow out. I have no interest in sylvari haters topics.

Comparing the Scarlet we see to the Joker as portrayed in the full of the Dark Knight is nowhere near fair. I’d say a better association would be comparing the Scarlet we’ve seen to the Joker only within the bank heist scene. We get no clues of his future plans, we can only see that he has manpower and knows how to manipulate people. I think Scarlet falls a little below just that scene in character development, but it doesn’t mean that she is unusable. I think, if properly done, she could become the villain that this franchise deserves (Har, Har, movie reference).

I do want to point out (since I could have sworn that I wrote a response to this but it must have gotten lost) that even though the Inquest themselves may not have been around, there is a good chance that asura with a similar mindset to the Inquest would be. We have examples of GW1 asura caring very little about endangering the lives of the bookahs that work for him, aka Gadd.