Guild Wars 2

what was your winrate for the 20 games before that?

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

I DONT HAVE HYPE.

i dont know how else to say this but ill say it again…. i am not a great player, im not elite.

YET even though im not good i am able to carry through those lower leagues.

I hate this ridiculous the system is out to get me that has become a common issue among people these days

That is beside the point. That you are good or bad doesn’t have anything to do with what ppl are reporting. And your dislike of that is also irrelevant to it having value or not.

well according to you everyone who disagrees with anything you said is irrelevant…. so i guess you are irrelevant? And since you are irrelevant i guess the system cant be out to get you…. so yes that is irrelevant.

and the skill level is relevant, if you choose to ignore that its on you. I would rather believe people i know have been playing this game for a long time rather than randoms on the forums.

No. Ppl who disagree with me and says why they do with logic and factual evidences that doesn’t ignore my stance is never irrelevant.

If you can’t see why you disliking ppl complaining about MMR is is irrelevant to the topic I think we are done.

get gud son. literally all there is left to say.

and honestly it sounds more like it should be

get not horrible son.

and no…. i dont care about your gw1 experience… means jack in this game and by your own admission you are newish to pvp.

Yes, because when I say Gw1 all you understand is “this guy is new to gw2”. Bye now, the troll has be well fed indeed.

Its an entirely different game. Maybe your having issues with pvp because your still attempting to play gw1 on gw2?

I didnt say you were new to gw2 i said you were newish to gw2 pvp. I can try and find the post where you stated that if youd like?

What I meant and should have said more clearly rather than alluding it is that I have thousands of hours fighting humans in gw2 on my main mostly on non-meta builds. I’m not new but my suffering MMR consider me of the same caliber as a brand new player. This, of course, is an obvious problem for also obvious reasons.

i wouldnt call playing custom arena on non meta builds experienced in pvp. Or wvw experience.

Neither of those are even close to how ranked pvp should be played.

Being an experienced guild wars player you should have known that.

So yes your MMR being low is correct, you dont have a lot of experience in ranked conquest pvp in GW2.

I might have less than 10 matches in custom arena. The huge majority of my experience is in ranked and in WvW roaming (humans vs humans not PVE or Ktrain).

See what you did here, again? You immediately assumed what I played and concluded upon that assumption without even bathing an eye. Why am I even answering you I don’t know. You don’t care about anything I wrote down you will simply twist it back to fit your world view.

We are done. Seriously this time. I’m out of good will with you and I really tried. Maybe someone else will care to answer your next questions/assumptions.

You made a post very recently in which you did say you are inexperienced in ranked pvp. How many ranked pvp games do you have?

and wvw no matter what does not count. AT ALL.

Fine, I’ll answer that last question just to dissipate doubts about me being new,

I’ve said repeatedly in several threads that I had thousands of matches (that is far less than ppl who have tens of thousands but do we agree I’m far from a brand new guy) in pvp and I absolutely disagree about WvW roaming amounting to nothing just because you decided it was so.

The conditions you have to deal with in WvW are a lot more unfair and unbalanced than in ranked pvp so if you can do well there far from the safety of the zerg alone your mechanical skills are probably not to blame. In WvW instant death is a real thing while in pvp it plain isn’t. Stealth in pvp is no problem but in WvW it is a kittening big deal. Spotting a specific animation in the middle of some WvW bigger fights can much harder than it is in the context of ranked pvp. I have over 5k+ hours playing my main and have died over 16k+ times (I play risky a lot). I’m not new to human vs human fighting at all.

Now, before you answer back something like “but WvW this…” or “PvP that…” I’ll tell you that I couldn’t care less at this point. Let’s just disagree and be done with it. Really.

WvW harder than pvp ok i got it. Glad that was cleared up…….

Anhomedog.7968:

Im having a great time…. Everyone here just thinks that everyone hates this season because most people dont come here unless they are complaining about something

at least someone else gets it.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

I DONT HAVE HYPE.

i dont know how else to say this but ill say it again…. i am not a great player, im not elite.

YET even though im not good i am able to carry through those lower leagues.

I hate this ridiculous the system is out to get me that has become a common issue among people these days

That is beside the point. That you are good or bad doesn’t have anything to do with what ppl are reporting. And your dislike of that is also irrelevant to it having value or not.

well according to you everyone who disagrees with anything you said is irrelevant…. so i guess you are irrelevant? And since you are irrelevant i guess the system cant be out to get you…. so yes that is irrelevant.

and the skill level is relevant, if you choose to ignore that its on you. I would rather believe people i know have been playing this game for a long time rather than randoms on the forums.

No. Ppl who disagree with me and says why they do with logic and factual evidences that doesn’t ignore my stance is never irrelevant.

If you can’t see why you disliking ppl complaining about MMR is is irrelevant to the topic I think we are done.

get gud son. literally all there is left to say.

and honestly it sounds more like it should be

get not horrible son.

and no…. i dont care about your gw1 experience… means jack in this game and by your own admission you are newish to pvp.

Yes, because when I say Gw1 all you understand is “this guy is new to gw2”. Bye now, the troll has be well fed indeed.

Its an entirely different game. Maybe your having issues with pvp because your still attempting to play gw1 on gw2?

I didnt say you were new to gw2 i said you were newish to gw2 pvp. I can try and find the post where you stated that if youd like?

What I meant and should have said more clearly rather than alluding it is that I have thousands of hours fighting humans in gw2 on my main mostly on non-meta builds. I’m not new but my suffering MMR consider me of the same caliber as a brand new player. This, of course, is an obvious problem for also obvious reasons.

i wouldnt call playing custom arena on non meta builds experienced in pvp. Or wvw experience.

Neither of those are even close to how ranked pvp should be played.

Being an experienced guild wars player you should have known that.

So yes your MMR being low is correct, you dont have a lot of experience in ranked conquest pvp in GW2.

I might have less than 10 matches in custom arena. The huge majority of my experience is in ranked and in WvW roaming (humans vs humans not PVE or Ktrain).

See what you did here, again? You immediately assumed what I played and concluded upon that assumption without even bathing an eye. Why am I even answering you I don’t know. You don’t care about anything I wrote down you will simply twist it back to fit your world view.

We are done. Seriously this time. I’m out of good will with you and I really tried. Maybe someone else will care to answer your next questions/assumptions.

You made a post very recently in which you did say you are inexperienced in ranked pvp. How many ranked pvp games do you have?

and wvw no matter what does not count. AT ALL.

ibkillin.9610:

Well a majority are not having a “fantastic” time and have either given up on pvp or this game all together for at least this season. Say L2P all you want trolls…

the people on the forums are not the majority. They are the vocal minority.

Agemnon.4608:

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

Ithilwen.1529:

The claim has been made that the season would even out and games would become better as “good” players move up. That theory has failed as has this season’s matchmaking. I can’t wait to see anet remove the division locks. Watch the qq as players fall in the course of a weekend from Diamond to Amber.

This system isn’t working anet, admit it and move on please, for the sake of the game.

Here’s my recent game history. Those are losses by an average of roughly 214 points. with a maximum margin of 481 points and a minimum of 76.

These matches are not “fun” or “competitive.” They don’t make me admire Diamond or Legendary players. Quite the contrary, it makes me despise them. I don’t think this is the sort of “prestige” anet hoped to generate.

removing division lock wont solve anything, it will only result in more issues. ( drastic Q times/ less players ) also as a player i never experience losing enough pips to warrant going down in division. meaning i never had 0 pips and lose. also you shouldnt hate on the diamond or legendary players, like you they’re also just playing the game. if u think ruby is bad right now, diamond is the same. so dont rejoice if u got out of ruby.

Games should be tougher in higher leagues. I’d love to reach diamond purely for its own sake but still need to iron out many holes in my understanding or team more often.

Anyone that played a bunk mesmer and a condi pu mesmer is going to be kittened at season 2….. no more bunk mesmer and pu mesmer got gutted long ago.

im having a fantastic time in pvp season 2 rules.

ibkillin.9610:

Evan Lesh.3295:

This is a really great analysis. I appreciate all the work you put into this. We recognize the problems that the season 2 matchmaking is causing and are looking into solutions that will provide a good experience and satisfy our goals for the league system.

It would have been nice to make an official post to tell the player base that hey we still screwed up a bit and the MMR system is still not up to par with where we want it. Pretty much you’ve destroyed PvP interest for a lot of players because of this. Class balancing a bit better might help as well. How can you justifiy having a Reaper who has 2 health bars, that can tank, put down so many conditions that you can never even cleanse them properly if you even spec into it? That’s just stupid. Same goes for other classes like Scrapper (which I do play), just too much substain and stuff. Druid? Takes 2-3 ppl to take out a bunker spec, so how is all this even fair?

It is not…

reaper has 2 health bars……. /fail

enough said.

godsie.2864:

Sykper.6583:

Hmm, this is really great stuff.

Maybe there needs to be a saving grace match that boosts your MMR if you land in a massive losing streak, that will reset your MMR to prior to the maximum you had at the time if you win, or at least give you half to step up your game.

That might help those folks in ‘Hell’, which is actually a smaller % on that report than I thought there would be. Would those numbers be accurate? Who knows, but it could at least give credit to the existence of a hell. (Heaven can also be a problem too…)

nice idea or some sort of MMR resets during the season to help those who got off to a bad start but have worked to improve

Not sure anyone should have their MMR reset. If anyone remembers it was widely thought that tanking your MMR in early divisions in season 1 was the fastest way to get to legend….. now we want to reward those people who tanked on purpose?

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

I DONT HAVE HYPE.

i dont know how else to say this but ill say it again…. i am not a great player, im not elite.

YET even though im not good i am able to carry through those lower leagues.

I hate this ridiculous the system is out to get me that has become a common issue among people these days

That is beside the point. That you are good or bad doesn’t have anything to do with what ppl are reporting. And your dislike of that is also irrelevant to it having value or not.

well according to you everyone who disagrees with anything you said is irrelevant…. so i guess you are irrelevant? And since you are irrelevant i guess the system cant be out to get you…. so yes that is irrelevant.

and the skill level is relevant, if you choose to ignore that its on you. I would rather believe people i know have been playing this game for a long time rather than randoms on the forums.

No. Ppl who disagree with me and says why they do with logic and factual evidences that doesn’t ignore my stance is never irrelevant.

If you can’t see why you disliking ppl complaining about MMR is is irrelevant to the topic I think we are done.

get gud son. literally all there is left to say.

and honestly it sounds more like it should be

get not horrible son.

and no…. i dont care about your gw1 experience… means jack in this game and by your own admission you are newish to pvp.

Yes, because when I say Gw1 all you understand is “this guy is new to gw2”. Bye now, the troll has be well fed indeed.

Its an entirely different game. Maybe your having issues with pvp because your still attempting to play gw1 on gw2?

I didnt say you were new to gw2 i said you were newish to gw2 pvp. I can try and find the post where you stated that if youd like?

What I meant and should have said more clearly rather than alluding it is that I have thousands of hours fighting humans in gw2 on my main mostly on non-meta builds. I’m not new but my suffering MMR consider me of the same caliber as a brand new player. This, of course, is an obvious problem for also obvious reasons.

i wouldnt call playing custom arena on non meta builds experienced in pvp. Or wvw experience.

Neither of those are even close to how ranked pvp should be played.

Being an experienced guild wars player you should have known that.

So yes your MMR being low is correct, you dont have a lot of experience in ranked conquest pvp in GW2.

does anyone just have fun playing the game….. this is ridiculous.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

where am i claiming to be good…. im not claiming to be good im claiming to be able to carry at low levels because in all honesty the same things you are all saying about your teammates how they suck and do dumb things are all the same reasons why i am able to carry at low levels. I have been able to 1v2 and 1v3 in amber through sapphire….

My rise will stop at some point and even out… all it means is i probably dont belong in amber emerald or sapphire… my guess is i end up somewhere in high ruby or maybe briefly touching diamond… where last season we had people that didnt know simple game mechanics made it to legendary because they played a ton of games…

anet has tried a million different ways to do this balancing with MMR a bunch of different systems and its always the same thing one way is just a grind to the top and some players have an issue with that because they cant play 20 games regardless of their skill level. Same thing on the other end of the spectrum it becomes more MMr and skill based so the people who grind and grind and grind cant make the top because thye probably just arent good enough. The current system seems to be what anet has come up with and is sort of a hybrid between the two.

You say ur rise to the top will level out and that is where u belong cuz of ur skill.

That’s what ppl said happened to me in emerald when I bottomed out w/ a 100+ consecutive loss losing streak. Um, no, I wasn’t an emerald player, cuz now I’m 3 pips from diamond and have had a fairly easy experience getting thru ruby. So now what?

You may hit ur mmr lose streak where u rightfully belong (u will have to judge that for urself) or u may not. U may hit it much earlier than ur skill would indicate for reasons having nothing to do w/ ur skill.

Really, think about it. It just comes down to this system: Losers are paired with losers against winners. Winners are paired with winners against losers. This goes on ad infinitum.

So the system is actually coding for u to be placed w/ either winners against losers or w/ losers against winners. So u either have the deck predeterminedly stacked against u or w/ u.

Also, some amount of luck is involved w/ regard to other factors such as rerolls, ts, syncing, premades vs. solos, vanilla builds, newbie or noob teammates, dcs, manipulations, afks, dishonorable ppl doing dishonorable things. So yah, ur skill is important, as is the skill of ur teammates (and the lack of skill of ur winning opponents – lucky for winners who are being deliberately pitted against losing players w/ presumable less skill), but to act like ur skill alone put u where u r, and my skill alone got me stuck in emerald (and now, according to many of u, its my grinding and not my skill that is raising me thru the divs – lol?) is ridiculous.

If I’m not as good as I think I am, maybe ur not as good as u think u r since always getting paired w/ winners and always going against losers (with ur team of winners) each time u win is hardly nothing. Are u really saying that is not a distinct advantage which they system has coded for winners to have? Are you really saying nothing but ur skill got u where u r, and nothing but my lack of skill got me where I am?

You’re denying the reality of the deliberate coding, which gives an advantage to winners and a deliberate disadvantage to losers (why any system designed to encourage fun and true competition in a game should penalize losers further is still shocking to me).[/quote]

Ive had around a 60% win rate in ranked for almost my entire time in GW2 pvp.

I KNOW IM NOT GOOD I KEEP SAYING THAT LOL

and yes it could be possible that the only reason you got to diamond is because you played alot of games… but since youve been playing so many games to get there i expect your skill level has gone up.

godsie.2864:

NeXeD.3042:

Ithilwen.1529:

If the season isn’t designed to be fun, I see serious problems. The vast majority of us aren’t paid to play. So the motivation has to be to have fun.

I take issue with "matches people with teammates of their (sic) (yes I know it should be spelled “there” ) own skill." Losses strongly reinforce losing and winning strongly reinforces winning.

It’s no measure of skill to put me in a match against a stacked deck that I’m intended to lose. Then, I get punished for losing by having the deck stacked even more against me. I’m told that if only I get good , everything will be OK and I too will get good teams.

-edit- Yes of course I’m going to keep queue’ing. The achievements are so steep that I need every match to have any hope of winning the wings. I understand that it’s this year only.. so if I want the reward I have to keep taking it on the chin for hours on end.

competition is fun for those that like a challenge….

if you are not having fun as you say why continue to beat yourself over the head?

because I don’t give up – not my nature
and a challenge I would love to have – this is not a challenge its a blow out 500-55 first and 500-5 the second that’s neither a challenge or competitive

question was not meant for you, but thats good it sounds like you have a competitive spirit. Also i highly doubt all of your games are like that. Mine were like that until i got to upper sapphire and they started getting a little bit closer… but if im constantly able to 2v1 indefinitely the other team should have no chance. I expect my scores will become better in high ruby and diamond.

godsie.2864:

Ithilwen.1529:

If the season isn’t designed to be fun, I see serious problems. The vast majority of us aren’t paid to play. So the motivation has to be to have fun.

I take issue with "matches people with teammates of their (sic) (yes I know it should be spelled “there” ) own skill." Losses strongly reinforce losing and winning strongly reinforces winning.

It’s no measure of skill to put me in a match against a stacked deck that I’m intended to lose. Then, I get punished for losing by having the deck stacked even more against me. I’m told that if only I get good , everything will be OK and I too will get good teams.

-edit- Yes of course I’m going to keep queue’ing. The achievements are so steep that I need every match to have any hope of winning the wings. I understand that it’s this year only.. so if I want the reward I have to keep taking it on the chin for hours on end.

exactly the same mate have just been farmed twice by pro team masquerading in sapphire on alts as well because they cant play in there own division probably from long queue times . I’m stuck in MMRHell like you lost count of my losing streaks long time ago I wont give up either but know its all in vain and this farming of lower level players is the normal now – at least it gives the pro’s something to do!

how do you know it was a pro team?

Ithilwen.1529:

If the season isn’t designed to be fun, I see serious problems. The vast majority of us aren’t paid to play. So the motivation has to be to have fun.

I take issue with "matches people with teammates of their (sic) (yes I know it should be spelled “there” ) own skill." Losses strongly reinforce losing and winning strongly reinforces winning.

It’s no measure of skill to put me in a match against a stacked deck that I’m intended to lose. Then, I get punished for losing by having the deck stacked even more against me. I’m told that if only I get good , everything will be OK and I too will get good teams.

-edit- Yes of course I’m going to keep queue’ing. The achievements are so steep that I need every match to have any hope of winning the wings. I understand that it’s this year only.. so if I want the reward I have to keep taking it on the chin for hours on end.

competition is fun for those that like a challenge….

if you are not having fun as you say why continue to beat yourself over the head?

Eater of Peeps.9062:

NeXeD.3042:

if anyone is getting that frustrated or demoralized maybe pvp just isnt for you because you are correct 65 consecutive losses is not mathematically possible with the system. SO if that is happening its not the system.

That’s not what I said. I said losing 65 consecutive games or more is not mathematically possible UNLESS you have a skewed system. It is the system. Its ONLY the system’s coding and nothing else. And it is happening.

you say its the system i say it can not possibly be the systems fault if your losing that many games in a row your afking or you are the worst player in game (i realize this probably isnt you with that losing streak so im not saying you are bad or anything)

Agemnon.4608:

omg you mean this season made it so the more skilled players move quicker through the ranks! BLASPHEMY!

That’s just about the only thing good about the season. The problem with how it was implemented was those win streaks came at other players’ expense. So many people left the game because they were tired of massive losing streaks.

Finally an actually valid point. Yes that is an issue. One that could be fixed by giving players who were higher ranked in the season before a little boost to begin… have legendary players start in ruby or something and so on down the line.

if anyone is getting that frustrated or demoralized maybe pvp just isnt for you because you are correct 65 consecutive losses is not mathematically possible with the system. SO if that is happening its not the system.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

morrolan.9608:

Chaith.8256:

You got to diamond, you may have taken the salty road, bare foot, with a 300lbs bag on your back, but you persevered. Probably learned a thing or two about carrying two bodies to victory.

You will always climb out of MMR hell and get your max as long as you’re trying, and don’t give up.

Maybe but he shouldn’t have had to. The system is poor and we now have the math to prove it.

what math proves what…… he already said he would pay the guy who successfully challenged his math and it was challenged. You might not agree… sweet.

Not everyone should be able to cruise through the lower tiers but i carried the hell out of my teams through sapphire. If a player at my skill level can carry at those tiers…. it really makes me 100% sure its not bad MMR that is keeping people in those divisions.

I think you missed the other “thread” https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/The-nature-of-MMR-hell/page/2#post6063062 with more math in it and confuse your unique case and perception with something that has inferential value.

You have no way to compare your journey to where you are to those of others and conclude that the difference is your skill. Knowing all the variables included in the equation, it is supremely pretentious to even flirt with that idea.

There are several models that show it’s more than likely that what many call “MMR hell” exist within this particular MM model.

I didnt miss the thread. But its a model and in no way a real representation of what is actually going on as he had to make assumptions to make the model. He admitted those things.

More and more it just seems like a bunch of babies with dunning kruger.

Im sorry season 1 allowed you to grind your way into legendary and now you cant…..

If me assuming other people are having l2p issues is pretentious then so be it.

Ive been playing this game for quite a while and i know im not the most skilled player yet i was able to carry hard through sapphire.

But you are making assumptions about me and my road through the divisions as well… i fail to see any difference other than your self serving opinions.

The models yield a lot more supportive objective evidences than your anecdotes when the time come to conclude on the topic. Brushing aside all that you do not like to keep your anecdotes and conclude it’s mostly a l2p issue while having no clue about others nor any way to compare their journey to yours is most definitely pretentious.

Beside, in the light of these models an the fact you are 1/5 of an ever changing team, I think the ppl thinking they are responsible for more than they factually can be in the outcome of these matches are the ones behaving like babies with Dunning Kruger issues. Maybe some ppl need to stop believing their own hype and just enjoy their good fortune.

Oh, and what assumptions did I made about you and your road? I said you had no way to compare to others and that is not an assumption. It is a fact.

I’m not believing my own hype and if you think 3 years of pvp experience talking is worthless than I would say the same from someone who has only been pvping for a year is less than worthless.

I’ve admitted I’m not an elite player yet I’m able to carry at lower levels.

The models being created are not objective, everyone making them is looking to further their own agenda…. wouldn’t call that being objective and you aren’t being objective either.

My anecdotes are just as viable as all these mmr assumptions. Because neither of them are end all beat all.

Ive been pvping more than 14 yrs on gw (my primary thing to do on both games) and since beta on both. I’m hardly a noob or a newbie to gw pvp. I didn’t grind to my 54% win loss ratio last season (began seas 2 at this level) any more than u did. I have had a much easier time going thru ruby than I ever did thru emerald. And btw, it was an absolutely a horrible, demoralizing experience being stuck solo q in emerald w. players who were brand new or clueless or vanilla against, many times, premades synced on ts quickly on their way to legend at my expense.

I will say this to u. If this system proves I was stuck in emerald, cuz I suck cuz my losses only begat me more losses (losers are paired with losers against winners), ankitten ow in ruby cuz I did nothing but grind, and I need to face reality that I am not as good a player as I thought I was, then I would say that the same system should make you realize that your wins got you more wins (winners are paired with winners against winners) and your easy short grind to wherever you are should make you realize that perhaps you are not as good a player as you think you are just cuz you are in an upper division with a winning train ride ticket to the top.

So um, yah w/e.

where am i claiming to be good…. im not claiming to be good im claiming to be able to carry at low levels because in all honesty the same things you are all saying about your teammates how they suck and do dumb things are all the same reasons why i am able to carry at low levels. I have been able to 1v2 and 1v3 in amber through sapphire….

My rise will stop at some point and even out… all it means is i probably dont belong in amber emerald or sapphire… my guess is i end up somewhere in high ruby or maybe briefly touching diamond… where last season we had people that didnt know simple game mechanics made it to legendary because they played a ton of games…

anet has tried a million different ways to do this balancing with MMR a bunch of different systems and its always the same thing one way is just a grind to the top and some players have an issue with that because they cant play 20 games regardless of their skill level. Same thing on the other end of the spectrum it becomes more MMr and skill based so the people who grind and grind and grind cant make the top because thye probably just arent good enough. The current system seems to be what anet has come up with and is sort of a hybrid between the two.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

I DONT HAVE HYPE.

i dont know how else to say this but ill say it again…. i am not a great player, im not elite.

YET even though im not good i am able to carry through those lower leagues.

I hate this ridiculous the system is out to get me that has become a common issue among people these days

That is beside the point. That you are good or bad doesn’t have anything to do with what ppl are reporting. And your dislike of that is also irrelevant to it having value or not.

well according to you everyone who disagrees with anything you said is irrelevant…. so i guess you are irrelevant? And since you are irrelevant i guess the system cant be out to get you…. so yes that is irrelevant.

and the skill level is relevant, if you choose to ignore that its on you. I would rather believe people i know have been playing this game for a long time rather than randoms on the forums.

No. Ppl who disagree with me and says why they do with logic and factual evidences that doesn’t ignore my stance is never irrelevant.

If you can’t see why you disliking ppl complaining about MMR is is irrelevant to the topic I think we are done.

get gud son. literally all there is left to say.

and honestly it sounds more like it should be

get not horrible son.

and no…. i dont care about your gw1 experience… means jack in this game and by your own admission you are newish to pvp.

Yes, because when I say Gw1 all you understand is “this guy is new to gw2”. Bye now, the troll has be well fed indeed.

Its an entirely different game. Maybe your having issues with pvp because your still attempting to play gw1 on gw2?

I didnt say you were new to gw2 i said you were newish to gw2 pvp. I can try and find the post where you stated that if youd like?

godsie.2864:

Dirtyrascal.1023:

Mo Mo.1947:

Stop putting Sapphire players in teams with Ruby players.

I’ll wait in the queue longer if that’s what it takes. The wait for a long queue is shorter than the time it takes to jump up and down in pips from win-loss bouncing or lose streaks.

I’m in Ruby hell now and while I can see the merits of matching Rubies in the top tier against Diamond players, I can’t understand matching against people in other divisions when they are in the middle tiers. If you wanna pit me against Diamonds when I’m in tier 6 Ruby, bring it on, but once a series of Diamonds beats me down to tier 5, please just stop that nonsense… I really can’t believe the Diamond matchups continued after I got beat down to tier 4 from tier 6. :/

Right now I see tons of Diamond players standing around and tons of Sapphire players standing around, and a few Ruby. Yet I keep getting either matched vs Diamond or teamed with Sapphire.

Please match Sapphires and Diamonds with their own division. Stop giving Ruby players so many Diamonds and Sapphires in the middle tiers of Ruby.

Also stop this kind of matching behavior for all divisions, while you’re at it.. :/

Bad Matchmaking = Reduced Player Base = Even Worse Matchmaking = Even Smaller Player Base etc…

Sorry to say it will only get worse this season.

this +1 and will affect season 3 and 4 as well
MMR in the pits! a long time ago – utterly screwed

i keep hearing things like this and then i also see data that the player base has been increasing in pvp…

Your play will improve far more from playing ranked against and with meta builds than it will in unranked. Thats your incentive. If you dont want to get better than you dont have to put in the effort.

And if anyone complains at you most likely they are not exactly playing perfectly either so dont let people like that ruin it for you.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

I DONT HAVE HYPE.

i dont know how else to say this but ill say it again…. i am not a great player, im not elite.

YET even though im not good i am able to carry through those lower leagues.

I hate this ridiculous the system is out to get me that has become a common issue among people these days

That is beside the point. That you are good or bad doesn’t have anything to do with what ppl are reporting. And your dislike of that is also irrelevant to it having value or not.

well according to you everyone who disagrees with anything you said is irrelevant…. so i guess you are irrelevant? And since you are irrelevant i guess the system cant be out to get you…. so yes that is irrelevant.

and the skill level is relevant, if you choose to ignore that its on you. I would rather believe people i know have been playing this game for a long time rather than randoms on the forums.

I DONT HAVE HYPE.

i dont know how else to say this but ill say it again…. i am not a great player, im not elite.

YET even though im not good i am able to carry through those lower leagues.

I hate this ridiculous the system is out to get me that has become a common issue among people these days

omg you mean this season made it so the more skilled players move quicker through the ranks! BLASPHEMY!

It actually made the climb out of those lower ranks easier. Not dealing with people who should be legendary in amber emerald or sapphire because they made it out quickly….. what it seems people want is to have those legendary players on their team in emerald….

Are we sure none of these instances are reapers with bm or rangers using search and rescue?

morrolan.9608:

NeXeD.3042:

morrolan.9608:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

morrolan.9608:

Chaith.8256:

You got to diamond, you may have taken the salty road, bare foot, with a 300lbs bag on your back, but you persevered. Probably learned a thing or two about carrying two bodies to victory.

You will always climb out of MMR hell and get your max as long as you’re trying, and don’t give up.

Maybe but he shouldn’t have had to. The system is poor and we now have the math to prove it.

what math proves what…… he already said he would pay the guy who successfully challenged his math and it was challenged. You might not agree… sweet.

Not everyone should be able to cruise through the lower tiers but i carried the hell out of my teams through sapphire. If a player at my skill level can carry at those tiers…. it really makes me 100% sure its not bad MMR that is keeping people in those divisions.

I think you missed the other “thread” https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/The-nature-of-MMR-hell/page/2#post6063062 with more math in it and confuse your unique case and perception with something that has inferential value.

You have no way to compare your journey to where you are to those of others and conclude that the difference is your skill. Knowing all the variables included in the equation, it is supremely pretentious to even flirt with that idea.

There are several models that show it’s more than likely that what many call “MMR hell” exist within this particular MM model.

I didnt miss the thread. But its a model and in no way a real representation of what is actually going on as he had to make assumptions to make the model. He admitted those things.

I like forward to your math disproving it then, the OP in no way admitted that it was irrelevant. Plus there have been 1-2 other models done with much the same conclusion and the anet devs themselves seem to regard it as useful.

I wasn’t the one disproving it I beleive it was some guy named ensign.

He in no way disproved it.

Well he can’t disprove something that is not proven. He disputed it.

I get you all seem to have some sort of vendetta against players who are having an easier time in season 2 than season 1…. but even anet admitted season 1 had flaws, yes season 2 has flaws as well but even the math with that simulation it shows a very small amount being possibly in MMR hell.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

NeXeD.3042:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

NeXeD.3042:

cruised through sapphire playing a non meta build…. zerk wells necro with chrono runes lol.

hmm hot build or non-hot build ?

can share?

It’s a hot build, and its very bad super glassy. Spite blood reaper d/wh gs all wells and lich. Air hydro air fire. The damage is hysterical and one well placed wos with a Gravedigger using the quickness from chrono runes makes for some interesting plays. But it’s a crap build. Can’t 1v1 and any focus fire will drop you instantly.

waaaa

and you got through sapphire with that !

i guess that won’t cut it for ruby then … -_- ;;;

My guess so far is I can still make it through ruby with this build. But that’s just due to the skill level in ruby not being great anyone can get there

morrolan.9608:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

morrolan.9608:

Chaith.8256:

You got to diamond, you may have taken the salty road, bare foot, with a 300lbs bag on your back, but you persevered. Probably learned a thing or two about carrying two bodies to victory.

You will always climb out of MMR hell and get your max as long as you’re trying, and don’t give up.

Maybe but he shouldn’t have had to. The system is poor and we now have the math to prove it.

what math proves what…… he already said he would pay the guy who successfully challenged his math and it was challenged. You might not agree… sweet.

Not everyone should be able to cruise through the lower tiers but i carried the hell out of my teams through sapphire. If a player at my skill level can carry at those tiers…. it really makes me 100% sure its not bad MMR that is keeping people in those divisions.

I think you missed the other “thread” https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/The-nature-of-MMR-hell/page/2#post6063062 with more math in it and confuse your unique case and perception with something that has inferential value.

You have no way to compare your journey to where you are to those of others and conclude that the difference is your skill. Knowing all the variables included in the equation, it is supremely pretentious to even flirt with that idea.

There are several models that show it’s more than likely that what many call “MMR hell” exist within this particular MM model.

I didnt miss the thread. But its a model and in no way a real representation of what is actually going on as he had to make assumptions to make the model. He admitted those things.

I like forward to your math disproving it then, the OP in no way admitted that it was irrelevant. Plus there have been 1-2 other models done with much the same conclusion and the anet devs themselves seem to regard it as useful.

I wasn’t the one disproving it I beleive it was some guy named ensign.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

morrolan.9608:

Chaith.8256:

You got to diamond, you may have taken the salty road, bare foot, with a 300lbs bag on your back, but you persevered. Probably learned a thing or two about carrying two bodies to victory.

You will always climb out of MMR hell and get your max as long as you’re trying, and don’t give up.

Maybe but he shouldn’t have had to. The system is poor and we now have the math to prove it.

what math proves what…… he already said he would pay the guy who successfully challenged his math and it was challenged. You might not agree… sweet.

Not everyone should be able to cruise through the lower tiers but i carried the hell out of my teams through sapphire. If a player at my skill level can carry at those tiers…. it really makes me 100% sure its not bad MMR that is keeping people in those divisions.

I think you missed the other “thread” https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/The-nature-of-MMR-hell/page/2#post6063062 with more math in it and confuse your unique case and perception with something that has inferential value.

You have no way to compare your journey to where you are to those of others and conclude that the difference is your skill. Knowing all the variables included in the equation, it is supremely pretentious to even flirt with that idea.

There are several models that show it’s more than likely that what many call “MMR hell” exist within this particular MM model.

I didnt miss the thread. But its a model and in no way a real representation of what is actually going on as he had to make assumptions to make the model. He admitted those things.

More and more it just seems like a bunch of babies with dunning kruger.

Im sorry season 1 allowed you to grind your way into legendary and now you cant…..

If me assuming other people are having l2p issues is pretentious then so be it.

Ive been playing this game for quite a while and i know im not the most skilled player yet i was able to carry hard through sapphire.

But you are making assumptions about me and my road through the divisions as well… i fail to see any difference other than your self serving opinions.

The models yield a lot more supportive objective evidences than your anecdotes when the time come to conclude on the topic. Brushing aside all that you do not like to keep your anecdotes and conclude it’s mostly a l2p issue while having no clue about others nor any way to compare their journey to yours is most definitely pretentious.

Beside, in the light of these models an the fact you are 1/5 of an ever changing team, I think the ppl thinking they are responsible for more than they factually can be in the outcome of these matches are the ones behaving like babies with Dunning Kruger issues. Maybe some ppl need to stop believing their own hype and just enjoy their good fortune.

Oh, and what assumptions did I made about you and your road? I said you had no way to compare to others and that is not an assumption. It is a fact.

I’m not believing my own hype and if you think 3 years of pvp experience talking is worthless than I would say the same from someone who has only been pvping for a year is less than worthless.

I’ve admitted I’m not an elite player yet I’m able to carry at lower levels.

The models being created are not objective, everyone making them is looking to further their own agenda…. wouldn’t call that being objective and you aren’t being objective either.

My anecdotes are just as viable as all these mmr assumptions. Because neither of them are end all beat all.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

NeXeD.3042:

cruised through sapphire playing a non meta build…. zerk wells necro with chrono runes lol.

hmm hot build or non-hot build ?

can share?

It’s a hot build, and its very bad super glassy. Spite blood reaper d/wh gs all wells and lich. Air hydro air fire. The damage is hysterical and one well placed wos with a Gravedigger using the quickness from chrono runes makes for some interesting plays. But it’s a crap build. Can’t 1v1 and any focus fire will drop you instantly.

LordOtto.2650:

Please tell me more emerald/sapphire players about playing against pro players…. wait what?! You play against pro players?! That means that you alone are pro to, but your team mates are trash only…. do you even see what you wright?! You are a trash pvp player if you are in emerald/sapphire and you try even now to get out of there! Against pro players, huhhh; I’m legendary x1, and I still don’t call my self pro player, there are players who are even legendary x11, try to play against a full legendary team, and win it, while you are all in diamond, now that’s a real challenge, and that’s how I got to legendary. Solo 75%, 25% duo-trio. MMR is hell, but if you really know you deserve more, you get more, last season I was diamond, now legendary, maybe in season 3 I will be legendary x5, what’s stopping me, my own ego, once I believed in my self that I can get legendary I got it! Now I got 6 pips in legendary, and won’t stop! The biggest issue is the legendary solo thieves, rarely they are good, or help in team fights. PvP is team fight not 1vs1, every idiot can 1vs1 or 2vs2, but to play a strategy/tactic, they can’t, that’s why you are all in emerald/sapphire, no matter how good you are in 1vs1, the biggest problem is to know were to be, and why, who to support, how to flag someone, res someone, and I think you are trash at it!
And yes, there are trash players in legendary too, that’s why there are x7 x11 legendary players!
Tell me again about playing against pro players/teams, you never done it, trust me! I think with my legendary x1 I’m a normal player, who still has learning to do! And you at emerald and sapphire are world class, please tell me more!

agree with this post 100%

Not everyone is going to be in the top percent.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

morrolan.9608:

Chaith.8256:

You got to diamond, you may have taken the salty road, bare foot, with a 300lbs bag on your back, but you persevered. Probably learned a thing or two about carrying two bodies to victory.

You will always climb out of MMR hell and get your max as long as you’re trying, and don’t give up.

Maybe but he shouldn’t have had to. The system is poor and we now have the math to prove it.

what math proves what…… he already said he would pay the guy who successfully challenged his math and it was challenged. You might not agree… sweet.

Not everyone should be able to cruise through the lower tiers but i carried the hell out of my teams through sapphire. If a player at my skill level can carry at those tiers…. it really makes me 100% sure its not bad MMR that is keeping people in those divisions.

I think you missed the other “thread” https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/The-nature-of-MMR-hell/page/2#post6063062 with more math in it and confuse your unique case and perception with something that has inferential value.

You have no way to compare your journey to where you are to those of others and conclude that the difference is your skill. Knowing all the variables included in the equation, it is supremely pretentious to even flirt with that idea.

There are several models that show it’s more than likely that what many call “MMR hell” exist within this particular MM model.

I didnt miss the thread. But its a model and in no way a real representation of what is actually going on as he had to make assumptions to make the model. He admitted those things.

More and more it just seems like a bunch of babies with dunning kruger.

Im sorry season 1 allowed you to grind your way into legendary and now you cant…..

If me assuming other people are having l2p issues is pretentious then so be it.

Ive been playing this game for quite a while and i know im not the most skilled player yet i was able to carry hard through sapphire.

But you are making assumptions about me and my road through the divisions as well… i fail to see any difference other than your self serving opinions.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

You’re all missing the point. Its a team. One man, regardless of skill cannot carry a team. However, one man can sink a team. In addition, a coded system can impose penalties on players for losing.

How do you all explain that I had a 100+ losing game streak and got stuck at emerald tier 1 for 3 weeks, and tanked my mmr/win/loss ratio, and had to spend countless days teaching brand new players how to pvp while being pitted against pro league teams of 3 and 4 (I was in solo q) that blew thru the system early in seas 2. At that time, people told me, after years of pvping on gw, that I was in the tier/div I belonged.

I am now 3 pips from diamond.

Tell me, am I where I belong now in ruby cuz of my skill, or was I stuck in emerald tier 1 w. a humongous losing streak for weeks cuz I’m really a tier 1 emerald skill level player? Which is it, cuz it can’t be both. My skill alone cant explain both a rise to almost diamond (which I hope to hit before end of seas) and a huge losing streak that kept me near the bottom for weeks of very frustrating and demoralizing play.

There are many posts, including this one, which clearly show the system is designed to have losses beget losses, and wins beget wins ad infinitum. To punish losing players by stacking the deck against them is cruel.

Even if we assume that everyone at the bottom, or suffering a losing streak deserves it, the system then penalizes them further – its kinda like taking all the worst people, throwing them in a pit, throwing in potentially much better opponents (according to all of you naysayers) and then tying anvils on the backs of the losers and telling them to now fight their way out of the pit. This is what people are complaining about the inherent unfairness of the coded system itself. Get a clue. Its a coding issue. Its an extra liability that the coding has placed on losing players.

And remember, a team can lose for countless reasons, none of which may have anything to do with anyone’s skill – think dc’s, emergency afks, accepting gold to lose, deliberately losing for friends, teaching pals how to play in duos cuz u don’t care about pvping, being brand new to pvping on a free acct, facing a pro team, afkers, frozen skills/lags/stucks/glitches, teammates w/ underpowered or vanilla builds, etc. etc.

You mmr hell deniers all just wish your easy breezy rides to the top were truly indicative of your personal skill. That might be true. But it just as easily might be total bs, and like you all always say to me, maybe I’m not as good a player as I thought I was, and maybe, neither r u. Maybe ur not as good as u think u r and ur high div placement is not really indicative of ur skill (which explains ruby, diamond and legend blow outs).

You can grind your way in to ruby… which sounds like is exactly what you did…. so yes you probably belong in ruby.

morrolan.9608:

Chaith.8256:

You got to diamond, you may have taken the salty road, bare foot, with a 300lbs bag on your back, but you persevered. Probably learned a thing or two about carrying two bodies to victory.

You will always climb out of MMR hell and get your max as long as you’re trying, and don’t give up.

Maybe but he shouldn’t have had to. The system is poor and we now have the math to prove it.

what math proves what…… he already said he would pay the guy who successfully challenged his math and it was challenged. You might not agree… sweet.

Not everyone should be able to cruise through the lower tiers but i carried the hell out of my teams through sapphire. If a player at my skill level can carry at those tiers…. it really makes me 100% sure its not bad MMR that is keeping people in those divisions.

cruised through sapphire playing a non meta build…. zerk wells necro with chrono runes lol.

fishball.7204:

NeXeD.3042:

You can say it’s your teams fault etc but after enough games it stops being that and the common denominator is you.

Not really true. Like in my legend games I can have a 90% lose rate and then later on an 8 game winstreak. Team mates matter a lot in pvp, even ESL players can lose games if they have a bad team.

Your already at the highest level besides esl….. so that makes sense to me…..

godsie.2864:

NeXeD.3042:

Silverstone.4539:

I think a lot of you are missing my point. What’s done is done for season 2, win or lose. But season 3 won’t be a fresh start if it’s still using MMR from season 2 and 1, its irreversible damaged my MMR. It would be like a sports team that is forced to start with a -10 score at the start of the season, just because that team lost the year before. And the team that won gets +10 at the start. This does not happen. I think almost all start at 0 in the interest of fair play. but not GW2 PvP its rigged, corrupt and anything but fair, and I no longer want anything to do with it.

For me, there is no “so we had a bad run this season, we’ll pick it up on the next one” no, no we can’t. because that “bad run” is going to drag me down for the next season too, and the one after that and the one after that.

I don’t know you, so I can’t speak to your skill level but I literally cruised right through emerald in like 2 hours. I’m maybe your MMR is where it’s supposed to be?

maybe you just got lucky

I doubt it, I’ve been consistently holding 2v1s allowing my team to outnumber on the other points. I just think I probably don’t belong in emerald or even sapphire. My guess is I’ll probably hit ruby and get stuck or slowly climb out. And if that happens I won’t attribute it to anything other than my own lack of skill.

You can say it’s your teams fault etc but after enough games it stops being that and the common denominator is you.

Silverstone.4539:

I think a lot of you are missing my point. What’s done is done for season 2, win or lose. But season 3 won’t be a fresh start if it’s still using MMR from season 2 and 1, its irreversible damaged my MMR. It would be like a sports team that is forced to start with a -10 score at the start of the season, just because that team lost the year before. And the team that won gets +10 at the start. This does not happen. I think almost all start at 0 in the interest of fair play. but not GW2 PvP its rigged, corrupt and anything but fair, and I no longer want anything to do with it.

For me, there is no “so we had a bad run this season, we’ll pick it up on the next one” no, no we can’t. because that “bad run” is going to drag me down for the next season too, and the one after that and the one after that.

I don’t know you, so I can’t speak to your skill level but I literally cruised right through emerald in like 2 hours. I’m maybe your MMR is where it’s supposed to be?

R O C.6574:

You’re right. The numbers don’t lie. And i believe other posts have mathematically explained how people can get stuck with a MMR below their actual skill level.

I’ve been in situations where i double down double stomp a 1v2 on my engi while the rest of my team gets wiped on a 4v3. Why should i have to carry the pvptards? Because i trashed my MMR in S1 when i learned how to play? I think all you stellar pvp elites should have the dead weight on your teams. You’re fine with it cause the deck is stacked in your favor.

i wouldn’t call myself elite. BUT! If you just learned how to play in s1 you shouldnt be good enough to carry or make it to legendary unless you are an extremely special player. A lot of us have been playing for years and some still wont make it to legendary.

Varezenem.2813:

Won’t deny it this season has been way easier to rank up, I did in 3 days what took me a 3 weeks of similar gameplay. And TBH rank should be associated with skill, the rewards most likely shouldn’t.

It really does seem like this season has been easier for a lot of people, i think its just a lot of people were able to GRIND their way to legend and diamond in season 1 and now they cant just grind their way into it, or it will at least take even longer for less skilled players to grind their way in.

R O C.6574:

You obvious are not getting it.

Being better or worse has nothing to do with fair. If you run a race against someone faster than you, they will most likely beat you. FAIR AND SQUARE.

What’s happening here is we are running a 5 man relay race and one team gets a guy in a wheelchair. THAT’S NOT A FAIR RACE.

sounds like an advantage….. you see how fast those wheelchair guys finish the marathons =)))

WE do understand what you are saying, what we are saying is even if you make things as perfect as you can it is still PvP…. to much human element for it to ever be completely fair.

The people complaining on the forums ARE NOT the majority. They are the vocal minority, if those people complaining think that is wrong thats fine i guess we can agree to disagree but numbers dont lie. If someone where to ever gather up the forum complaints on these forums and i guess we can add reddit i assure you the numbers would not be a large portion of the players actually pvping.

season 2 has been much easier for me…..

you can pay all you want doesnt mean the game should be easier. so all those saying they paid money to play a game thats fine, PVP is what it is. If you cant handle losing a lot i would suggest not pvping.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Tenebria.7239:

Ensign.2189:

Tenebria.7239:

The hypothetical 5%/50% misranked player might have to play upwards of 50ish matches to correct himself? And then play to raise pips?

The hypothetical 5% / 50% misrated player that you mentioned is actually at the correct rank – he is supposed to be in low ruby, and is, he’s just there with an abnormally low MMR for his rank. That player will have to play ~50 games or so to correct his MMR, at which point he’ll be at the right rank and rating. He’ll move upward along with the rising tide of players as MMR spreads out more amongst the ranks – slowly while he is underrated, more in line with how everyone else is moving once he’s corrected his MMR.

This following is just opinion but based on these simulations: A lower skilled player is more likely to make mistakes that frustrate the higher skilled player so a lot of these games are just going to be incredibly frustrating to play.

On the other note, I think I figure out why we differ, I think you’re using the percentage chance win from ELO/GLICKO (which is partially based on never having complete information) and I was using the method that we already know the true skill score since it’s a simulation and the average true skill should determine the win. I don’t know what’s more accurate? Maybe a combination of the two? But it seems to me that would account for the rest of difference in the direction of a players MMR trend.

The problem, as with any model, is what to do with the outliers. A model is useful to find trends and maximize probability of prediction but is often a poor tool to explain cases that are too extreme.

And won’t outliers on both sides be the vocal minority? Or at least more likely to be?

They aren’t less legitimate. Beside, I’d like to see you in the shoes of an outliers…

Honestly I think I may be a bit of an outlier, hadn’t played for like a month, came back and I’ve had one ranked loss from amber to sapphire 3. I’ll let you know if it keeps going.

And if I was an outlier on the other end I can assure you I would attribute it to my own lack of knowledge and skill as opposed to blaming mmr teammates builds basically anything bUT myself.

I think I’ve learned from losing than winning…. but I understand not everyone is the same way.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Tenebria.7239:

Ensign.2189:

Tenebria.7239:

The hypothetical 5%/50% misranked player might have to play upwards of 50ish matches to correct himself? And then play to raise pips?

The hypothetical 5% / 50% misrated player that you mentioned is actually at the correct rank – he is supposed to be in low ruby, and is, he’s just there with an abnormally low MMR for his rank. That player will have to play ~50 games or so to correct his MMR, at which point he’ll be at the right rank and rating. He’ll move upward along with the rising tide of players as MMR spreads out more amongst the ranks – slowly while he is underrated, more in line with how everyone else is moving once he’s corrected his MMR.

This following is just opinion but based on these simulations: A lower skilled player is more likely to make mistakes that frustrate the higher skilled player so a lot of these games are just going to be incredibly frustrating to play.

On the other note, I think I figure out why we differ, I think you’re using the percentage chance win from ELO/GLICKO (which is partially based on never having complete information) and I was using the method that we already know the true skill score since it’s a simulation and the average true skill should determine the win. I don’t know what’s more accurate? Maybe a combination of the two? But it seems to me that would account for the rest of difference in the direction of a players MMR trend.

The problem, as with any model, is what to do with the outliers. A model is useful to find trends and maximize probability of prediction but is often a poor tool to explain cases that are too extreme.

And won’t outliers on both sides be the vocal minority? Or at least more likely to be?

what facts have been provided?

the burden of truth should be on those that make the claims, people can post screenshots of game scores but they probably dont tell the whole story.

as much as alot of you want to believe the people winning are deluded into defending a flawed system one could argue the same for the other group, but what group is more likely to go to the forums to voice their disapproval?

people on these forums dont understand those complaining are most likely the vocal minority.

Aenesthesia.1697:

Buffalo Bruiser.3567:

It’s matchmaking period. Teams with higher individual MMR players are matched against teams with lower individual MMR ratings.

THAT’S MATCHMAKING.

Now if you want to type out your monologue about why players earn lower MMR, be my guest.

This is actually a better description:

Teams with any mmr are matched against teams with any mmr. The best team wins.

Say whatever you want. Before the match, you don’t know if the enemy is better or worse, you don’t know if they will play as a team or as @ssholes. You don’t know nothing, but the things you know about yourself. What the op is giving you, is tools to improve yourself, and improve your team also. The enemy team can have any given mmr, you have to beat them nontheless, or you won’t get your next pip.

So essentially everyone should worry about what they are doing to help the game rather than yell at teammates for doing something they probably shouldn’t have. Instead try to adapt accordingly.

oh i forgot about ranger aoe insta death hack. my bad. also yes that is absolutely an unavoidable attack, no way to evade it i mean you can evade it a little but you always end up with 30% health even if you dodged the attack.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

I’d rather beleive my actions matter than just be like welp nothing I can do about it. Total cop out.

This is a sad straw man. Whoever said your actions didn’t matter? Nobody here or in any threads that I know said or imply anything close to it.

Your actions ALWAYS matter and you can ALWAYS do your best to influence the outcome. But the point remain that you do not decide the outcome of a team game alone. You contribute to something that is greater than just you.

I’m shocked at the intense level of individuality I see in some ppl despite being myself an individualist and living in N-America since forever.

straw man… how the hell am i making a straw man argument, i havent once said i dont believe builds or team comp matter… so you are putting those words in my mouth.

All i have said is that too many people are minimizing individual skill.

You said “I’d rather beleive my actions matter than just be like welp nothing I can do about it”. This implies that people who argue against your pov have entertain the idea nothing can be done. Which is false.

Your taking things out of context and making assumptions nice.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

I’d rather beleive my actions matter than just be like welp nothing I can do about it. Total cop out.

This is a sad straw man. Whoever said your actions didn’t matter? Nobody here or in any threads that I know said or imply anything close to it.

Your actions ALWAYS matter and you can ALWAYS do your best to influence the outcome. But the point remain that you do not decide the outcome of a team game alone. You contribute to something that is greater than just you.

I’m shocked at the intense level of individuality I see in some ppl despite being myself an individualist and living in N-America since forever.

straw man… how the hell am i making a straw man argument, i havent once said i dont believe builds or team comp matter… so you are putting those words in my mouth.

All i have said is that too many people are minimizing individual skill.